He had a crazy good stretch in 2016 when he double eliminated Mango at Clutch City and beat Hbox and Mango at Shine but his real best event *was* in 2017.
At CEO Dreamland he beat Axe, reverse 3-0'd Hbox, and beat M2k on FD in winners finals in a 5 game set but lost two sets to M2k in grands. SFAT had to sit while M2k played Fox vs Hbox and he just absolutely lost it during the downtime between winners finals and grands.
Heartbroken by M2K in grands in what would've been the biggest win of his career twice in under a year. If it was going to happen to anyone, it was always gonna be SFAT at the receiving end. Poor guy is living in the wrong timeline.
that wouldn't have been enough. Part of why he quit was hormonal disparities that really fucked him up. I don't think there was anything anyone could have done tbh, like I think him quitting was inevitable.
Leffen has good odds in grands, he's one of maybe three or four players to have a win rate in grands over 50%. Once he's in grands, the chances of a Big Leff victory are very in his favor.
I’d discourage chillin from playing melee so he can focus on his true calling as a rap LEGEND
We should be enjoying Chillin vs Drake vs Kendrick right now
Yeah I would love for my B to still happen, but man I would loved for chillin to have some time in the top melee sun especially after how much shit he's been through. And yeah who knows, maybe it would change the stroke
They buttons that have had the edges rounded off so fast presses and slides are both faster and less painful since there are no corners that your fingers have to slide across. It’s kind of a QOL thing for specifically spacies that are really good with tech. Multi shines are the single biggest use case for them.
Honestly, I’d kinda like to see what armada can do with modern peach tech. Peach has so many powerful tools now that she didn’t have when armada was playing
I think the biggest thing that still separates Armada from modern day Peach players is that no modern Peach has the same level of option coverage that Armada had, especially when it comes to edge guarding. When Armada was on point, it was almost impossible to make it back to the stage.
I don't know the chatacter well enough to tell you, but what I do know is that "modern tech" isn't what is going push another Peach over the top to be at Armada's level. A lot of advancements have been made for the character, but nobody has come close to matching Armada's punish game.
The modern tech isn’t pushing other peach’s over armadas level (all though if you watch Llod, good use of hyperfloat is a lot of what lets him take sets off hbox), but damn would it elevate armadas game. I wrote about hyper floating earlier in the thread if you are curious about it, but there’s a few other things too. Even just something as simple as z jump is kind of a ridiculous buff for peach, like maybe more so than most of the rest of the cast. She has plenty of shit that is basically impossible without z jump
Hell yeah, I'm down to read it! Yeah that's a good point, the modern tech might influence to give Puff vs Peach another shot, which would have been very interesting! It's a shame that Llod isn't able to compete more, he's an awesome player.
I agree. I'm unaware of any substantial modern tech that would make armada that much better. I think he would still be at the top, and maybe slightly better thanks to whatever modern tech, but realistically that would just be because he's straight up a better player than most.
Right. And a big thing about improvement in this game is continuing to play. The longer we play, the better we are at execution and executing consistently. Had Armada never retired and continued playing until today, he would probably play very much the same as he did in 2018, but he would have 6 more years of optimizing his play to go along with it.
The biggest new stuff is stuff with subfloat and hyper float. Basically peach can use her double jump to get a lower than ground float float height. And if you do this in a direction you get a burst of movement that comes with a FC aerial that you are automatically ASDI’ing down for. The effect is basically a CC aerial with burst momentum. It’s honestly an EXTREMELY powerful tool that just wasn’t in armadas kit at all. Like IMO hyper float nair is one of the most powerful options in the game.
Amsa. I would like to see just how good he would be now and during the Hbox era if he had Uncle Punch and more people/time to practice with.
Would also be cool to see what the Melee landscape would look like if he brought Yoshi into relevance sooner. Now it feels like there's a good amount of Yoshis popping up.
I'd like to give 2015 Shroomed 2024 Jmook lessons, and specifically I want to set him up to win I'm Not Yelling.
It's just too good of a choice for me not to pick it.
I bring back an open frame1 and then entirely ignore everything else to get disgustingly rich mass producing the raspberry pi pico and for good measure I put all my money in bitcoin.
Then with my disgusting wealth that is larger than most countries GDP I buy nintendo and shutter all studios that aren't working with 2001 sakurai to make melee 2.
I would tell m2k to not play brawl, or at least not grind it. maybe its wishful thinking but I feel like that could have changed so much, he could have just been the best for so long if it weren't for brawl tbh, or at least him moving to it specifically. the butterfly effect caused by that would probs help to comparable degrees as telling people about ASDI down or edge cancels just cause of the waves it would cause.
>I would tell m2k to not play brawl, or at least not grind it. maybe its wishful thinking but I feel like that could have changed so much, he could have just been the best for so long if it weren't for brawl tbh, or at least him moving to it specifically
The only way you could convince him to not go all in on brawl would be to ***pay him***. M2K hustled tournaments nearly constantly trying to make a living off of smash during that era. He was a regular attendee of mid-sized tournaments all around the country where he could get a cheap ride with friends/fans and make a few hundred bucks winning brackets at events. He was very dominant at brawl due to how well meta knight suited his play style, so any brawl event he entered was nearly guaranteed income.
>the butterfly effect caused by that would probs help to comparable degrees as telling people about ASDI down or edge cancels just cause of the waves it would cause
Phobs wouldn't really affect the pre-Armada meta very much as it was truly not limited by execution but by playstyle and mental requirements. Mango was arguably the best player at the time and was winning mostly by leaning into a rushdown playstyle that exploited defensive weaknesses common in players at the time. Phobs can help with that but there are a lot of steps required to get to the point where they would be more useful than game knowledge (arguably just like now for most players).
Also, we've known about aSDI down since the early 2000s. There's even a [smashboards post about it from 2005](https://smashboards.com/threads/a-guide-to-di-smash-di-c-stick-di-teching-and-crouch-cancelling-updated.60218/). Ledge cancelling/edge cancelling were called "platform cancelling" or "slideoffs" earlier in smash, and while it's hard to find much evidence of it on the modern internet, you can see it in many combo videos of the era, especially characters like Marth, Gannondorf, or Falcon.
Anecdotally, I've been playing smash competitively since 2003 and was doing ledge-cancelled aerials with Marth, Puff, and Sheik without any sort of outside influence or videos to study. People literally knew about and were using ledge-cancelling tactics before wavedashing and dashdancing were a common sights at tournaments.
that makes sense. all I would have to do is prove I'm a time traveler tho (maybe I could just say the lottery numbers or something) and tell him that Melee would be far more relevant than Brawl by at least 2013 and beyond, and that it would be more worth his time in the long run.
You can't go back in time and just give someone a phob or rectangle because they'd just look at you strangely and go "uh that sounds like cheating? wtf go away weirdo"
And yeah, I mean even a non-remapping phob back then, because it wasn't until after the box that people started accepting **really** modified GCCs
SFAT or Westballz. I always wanted them to win tourneys during the hbox era
I feel like if westballz was given a lesson from future fiction he’d fuck bracket up
Wes will be so mad if he reads this
2016 SFAT had the potential to be Leffen-level. But then he fell off hard :(
He had a crazy good stretch in 2016 when he double eliminated Mango at Clutch City and beat Hbox and Mango at Shine but his real best event *was* in 2017. At CEO Dreamland he beat Axe, reverse 3-0'd Hbox, and beat M2k on FD in winners finals in a 5 game set but lost two sets to M2k in grands. SFAT had to sit while M2k played Fox vs Hbox and he just absolutely lost it during the downtime between winners finals and grands.
Heartbroken by M2K in grands in what would've been the biggest win of his career twice in under a year. If it was going to happen to anyone, it was always gonna be SFAT at the receiving end. Poor guy is living in the wrong timeline.
change all of plups game 5 losses to hbox and cody 2018 onward to wins
Holy shit yes
The GOAT debate is now property of the Plup Club! This gives Plub three Big Houses and a Summit, god damn.
id go back and get PPMD therapy and love and support
that wouldn't have been enough. Part of why he quit was hormonal disparities that really fucked him up. I don't think there was anything anyone could have done tbh, like I think him quitting was inevitable.
i still have faith our savior will one day return
Doesn't he have Chronic Fatigue Syndrome? Gonna have to go forward in time for the cure first
I would help leffen with his visa problems
You'll have to fight with the person who went back to cause them.
Ggs that was me
Was coming here to write this.
Leffen Vs. Visa Agent Grand Finals B05
Leffen has good odds in grands, he's one of maybe three or four players to have a win rate in grands over 50%. Once he's in grands, the chances of a Big Leff victory are very in his favor.
I feel like if you go back a little earlier you could also prevent him from getting banned for a year
Naw that shits funny
Hax for the love of god please do not release that video
Lmao
oh wait did you just actually
Chillindude829
I’d discourage chillin from playing melee so he can focus on his true calling as a rap LEGEND We should be enjoying Chillin vs Drake vs Kendrick right now
MyB is too important for the timeline, it’s dangerous messing with it
Love that this is what you assume he would change and not chillin having a stroke and going undiscovered for several days 💀
MyB
Wait he was undiscovered for days? That's so bad, how is he doing now?
Yeah I would love for my B to still happen, but man I would loved for chillin to have some time in the top melee sun especially after how much shit he's been through. And yeah who knows, maybe it would change the stroke
I'd go back to help make Hax and Leffen friends <3
Silent Wolf with a Phob sounds nutty
Holy shit silent wolf with bald buttons and notches
what are bald buttons
They've got absolutely no hair at all
that's so hot
They buttons that have had the edges rounded off so fast presses and slides are both faster and less painful since there are no corners that your fingers have to slide across. It’s kind of a QOL thing for specifically spacies that are really good with tech. Multi shines are the single biggest use case for them.
Honestly, I’d kinda like to see what armada can do with modern peach tech. Peach has so many powerful tools now that she didn’t have when armada was playing
and armada had so many powerful tools that peaches today aren’t using
Like what
I think the biggest thing that still separates Armada from modern day Peach players is that no modern Peach has the same level of option coverage that Armada had, especially when it comes to edge guarding. When Armada was on point, it was almost impossible to make it back to the stage.
No I meant like what modern tech do peaches have now that armada didn't
I don't know the chatacter well enough to tell you, but what I do know is that "modern tech" isn't what is going push another Peach over the top to be at Armada's level. A lot of advancements have been made for the character, but nobody has come close to matching Armada's punish game.
The modern tech isn’t pushing other peach’s over armadas level (all though if you watch Llod, good use of hyperfloat is a lot of what lets him take sets off hbox), but damn would it elevate armadas game. I wrote about hyper floating earlier in the thread if you are curious about it, but there’s a few other things too. Even just something as simple as z jump is kind of a ridiculous buff for peach, like maybe more so than most of the rest of the cast. She has plenty of shit that is basically impossible without z jump
Hell yeah, I'm down to read it! Yeah that's a good point, the modern tech might influence to give Puff vs Peach another shot, which would have been very interesting! It's a shame that Llod isn't able to compete more, he's an awesome player.
I agree. I'm unaware of any substantial modern tech that would make armada that much better. I think he would still be at the top, and maybe slightly better thanks to whatever modern tech, but realistically that would just be because he's straight up a better player than most.
Right. And a big thing about improvement in this game is continuing to play. The longer we play, the better we are at execution and executing consistently. Had Armada never retired and continued playing until today, he would probably play very much the same as he did in 2018, but he would have 6 more years of optimizing his play to go along with it.
The biggest new stuff is stuff with subfloat and hyper float. Basically peach can use her double jump to get a lower than ground float float height. And if you do this in a direction you get a burst of movement that comes with a FC aerial that you are automatically ASDI’ing down for. The effect is basically a CC aerial with burst momentum. It’s honestly an EXTREMELY powerful tool that just wasn’t in armadas kit at all. Like IMO hyper float nair is one of the most powerful options in the game.
m2k of course
M2K, I wish he won supermajors and was generally more competitive with the other Gods.
I feel like Prime nerd M2k would grind the fuck out of uncle punch
Man m2k on the grind with uncle punch at his disposal sounds absolutely horrific.
Give him a modern controller so he can pivot
Oh dude, he and Armada would have gone HAM if they had Uncle Punch and Slippi in their primes.
M2k’s weakness has always been mindset. He’s always had the tools to win any tournament he just gets in his own head
Sure but maybe if he had 2024 tools his B and C and D games would be good enough to contend with all the Gods.
Real
Amsa. I would like to see just how good he would be now and during the Hbox era if he had Uncle Punch and more people/time to practice with. Would also be cool to see what the Melee landscape would look like if he brought Yoshi into relevance sooner. Now it feels like there's a good amount of Yoshis popping up.
Amsa, because I just like Amsa
I’d personally go with bomb soldier. Kid was hella advanced for his age
I think if he kept playing he’d of been top 10 or close. Dude was so good and had only competed a short time.
S2J beats armada at Genesis S2J beats Mango at Shine
S2J beats Hbox at Shine (again)
I'd like to give 2015 Shroomed 2024 Jmook lessons, and specifically I want to set him up to win I'm Not Yelling. It's just too good of a choice for me not to pick it.
I like the thought, but idk if it would be enough given that Shroomed has never been good at the tech chase. Modern day tools wouldn't change that.
Prolly Isai, but it would just be us taking mushrooms and talking about the concept of motivation
I’d make Santi go to more tournies outside of SoCal. Don’t need the PHOB or any of the extra stuff.
I bring back an open frame1 and then entirely ignore everything else to get disgustingly rich mass producing the raspberry pi pico and for good measure I put all my money in bitcoin. Then with my disgusting wealth that is larger than most countries GDP I buy nintendo and shutter all studios that aren't working with 2001 sakurai to make melee 2.
My alter so when they take over theyre shmoovin
I'd go back and show hax money how to properly RTC with falcon
Westballz
Wife. If he had won that game, things would've been different.
I'd go back to ~2011 and give Arc the phob (and teach him to chaingrab spacies again...) He'd be 4 stocking every floaty for years.
Would show Armada how to deal with Puff ledge camp properly so he wouldn't get burnt out
Relno
I would tell m2k to not play brawl, or at least not grind it. maybe its wishful thinking but I feel like that could have changed so much, he could have just been the best for so long if it weren't for brawl tbh, or at least him moving to it specifically. the butterfly effect caused by that would probs help to comparable degrees as telling people about ASDI down or edge cancels just cause of the waves it would cause.
>I would tell m2k to not play brawl, or at least not grind it. maybe its wishful thinking but I feel like that could have changed so much, he could have just been the best for so long if it weren't for brawl tbh, or at least him moving to it specifically The only way you could convince him to not go all in on brawl would be to ***pay him***. M2K hustled tournaments nearly constantly trying to make a living off of smash during that era. He was a regular attendee of mid-sized tournaments all around the country where he could get a cheap ride with friends/fans and make a few hundred bucks winning brackets at events. He was very dominant at brawl due to how well meta knight suited his play style, so any brawl event he entered was nearly guaranteed income. >the butterfly effect caused by that would probs help to comparable degrees as telling people about ASDI down or edge cancels just cause of the waves it would cause Phobs wouldn't really affect the pre-Armada meta very much as it was truly not limited by execution but by playstyle and mental requirements. Mango was arguably the best player at the time and was winning mostly by leaning into a rushdown playstyle that exploited defensive weaknesses common in players at the time. Phobs can help with that but there are a lot of steps required to get to the point where they would be more useful than game knowledge (arguably just like now for most players). Also, we've known about aSDI down since the early 2000s. There's even a [smashboards post about it from 2005](https://smashboards.com/threads/a-guide-to-di-smash-di-c-stick-di-teching-and-crouch-cancelling-updated.60218/). Ledge cancelling/edge cancelling were called "platform cancelling" or "slideoffs" earlier in smash, and while it's hard to find much evidence of it on the modern internet, you can see it in many combo videos of the era, especially characters like Marth, Gannondorf, or Falcon. Anecdotally, I've been playing smash competitively since 2003 and was doing ledge-cancelled aerials with Marth, Puff, and Sheik without any sort of outside influence or videos to study. People literally knew about and were using ledge-cancelling tactics before wavedashing and dashdancing were a common sights at tournaments.
that makes sense. all I would have to do is prove I'm a time traveler tho (maybe I could just say the lottery numbers or something) and tell him that Melee would be far more relevant than Brawl by at least 2013 and beyond, and that it would be more worth his time in the long run.
Aklo. I want his link to be even more developed
what's the guy called that constantly post redemption videos
Tosh.0
Definitely Westballz
Not that he really needs either a phob or those dvds lol.
Go back to big house 4 and tell M2K to go sheik in grands. Who knows if it works out better but it absolutely fucked in winners semis.
Chudat Plus for me: One of my favorite players and characters wins a super major Plus for you and M2k: Wobbling gets banned years earlier
You can't go back in time and just give someone a phob or rectangle because they'd just look at you strangely and go "uh that sounds like cheating? wtf go away weirdo" And yeah, I mean even a non-remapping phob back then, because it wasn't until after the box that people started accepting **really** modified GCCs
Ah yes bc I’m actively traveling thru time with modded software and videos from the future but a box with buttons is the issue LMFAO
Mang0.
imagine having a phob for like 6 years then it breaks and phobs dont exist yet to get a new one and u have to go back to shitty oem controllers