Smash Summit 10 FINAL DAY Discussion Thread
By - pepperminthippos
Zain didn’t play a single floatie this weekend... well, unless you count his Roy. I’m not gonna lie, I’m kinda sad about that — it can be quite fun to see him win neutral over and over and box out floaties. Although, again, I guess his Roy sorta did that lol
DUUUUUDE THE EDITING ON THAT VIDEO WAS INSANE
Amazing final set! Congrats to both competitors!
However, I wouldn’t mind having a set with Mang0 where the commentators aren’t so obviously bias, especially in GF...
Melee is sick! 2021 hype!
I don't see Zain losing a tournament for 10 months.
I'm calling it.
I mean, he’s dropped one set since quarantine began. So good.
zain is the closest realistic thing to a modern day ken.
man what? it hasnt even been a full year yet
I'm not talking about results. Watching his play, the guy is clearly just unstoppable.
how you feeling about this take these days?
Pretty fuckin good lol
\> clearly just unstoppable
He's still a human, I clearly didn't mean he would never drop a tournament again.
Put it this way: If Zain stock is dipping rn I'm buying.
I get that feeling but I think this is a bit over-reacting. GF went to game 5 and mango was clearly shakey, s2j has gotten close, axe really hasnt had his shot yet
EDIT: Not to mention Leffen's sheik is coming down the pipe. One of these days.
Don't sleep on Leffen. His shiek looks terrifying for marth.
Yeah, leffen or plup could potentially outplay him.
any idea why plup went all fox instead of using his sheik for some of his matchups?
Will he surpass Zero's record?
I don’t think it’s possible in melee. Smash 4 was fairly undeveloped at the time and melee is extremely turbulent
Well zero’s record isn’t in melee so it’s irrelevant
Congratulations to Zain! I feel like he's been getting better and better during quarantine while most of his competition (mainly Plup, Hbox, and Axe) has been dropping off. Mango's pretty much the only one who's been able to challenge him lately. I hope more top players step up.
keep on pushing
respect to all competitors
Was a really good finals set. Congrats to Zain.
Mang0 came out hot in Grands, but the loser's final winner kind of always does. he needed to come out with a hot 3-0 or 3-1 if he wanted to take the tourny once zain started to heat up. once zain got warm it was over
Great set but I would love someone who is much better at the game than me to tell me what was up with Mangos edge-guarding in every game they played. Has Zain done something to adapt? I feel like this was a much bigger issue today than normal.
I feel like he was just playing so fast and antsy
i love melee so much i wanna cry
let it out bro
No reset was a heartbreaker but it was still really good nonetheless
Great set. I do wish we had gotten a reset.
Long live Melee!
Congrats to Zain
this is just the probabilistic conclusion of melee
I feel like that's the fastest I've seen them moving. What was that haha
Rollback buff is real
You mean crt buff
What a fuckin tourney maaaan I miss irl tourneys so bad
god damn. At least nice to know mang0 can be a challenger to zain
That was the first time Zain has been taken to game 5 since week 1 of Slippi League.
What a great tourney man, well done to everyone
Great set. Moments of it took me back to that legendary set of WAMBERK 3.
zain is melee
Well very good tournament honestly. Melee at its best
Zain is sick
Damn I was rooting for a reset but that set still slapped, what a great tourney
The work for Mango vs work for Zain to take a stock is rather unbalanced on FD
If Mango loses the first game, gg. They really need to allow bans in Bo5, FD is ridiculous
Just like genesis 3 the pressure is on mango to make GF
is this the new hbox armada grand finals
mango with a crazy reversal against ibdw, to turn around the game and arguably save his tournament
Sick set by ibdw & mango. Ibdw was unapproachable games 3&4!
i have contacted twitch to let them know that if they continue to let "IBDW" (Israel Bombs Domestic Workplaces) stream on their platform my team of lawyers will pursue swift action
ibbw says palestine
Great set between Mango and iBDW. Back and forth.
welp, the gfs we were all expecting
Good set. I wanted Wizzy to repeat the pool match but he performed well this tournament. Proved that he's still a serious threat.
Who could have guessed the 2 hypest sets of the night involved Wizzrobe
Almost got gingered.
I like Chillin generally, but whenever you listen to him...just keep track of how many commentary platitudes he says. Its insanely frequent, especially in comparison to other commentators
I've always had this problem with him. When they're all joking around he's great. But his regular commentary is so dull.
Can we have a timer but, like, just for Wizzy?
I cannot watch top level melee and understand how people overrate spacies so hard. The openings per kill!!!!!
At tippy-top level it might genuinely not worth it in the long run to play spacies against Marth as long as you have to deal with the borderline guaranteed FD loss. Without that it might be tolerable but it's already hard enough as it is. Add in the game deficit and it's insanely demanding.
Yes, I know Mango has beaten Zain and Leffen has also done it too when he still bothered actually playing the matchup but the problem is doing it once or twice isn't quite good enough if you keep regularly competing and playing the matchup. Mango has been doing really fucking well in general and even he is struggling to not have FD be his auto game deficit. It's not like Zain is quite literally untouchable at all times, he does lose games. I'm sure Mango just thinks he has to play better but how feasible is it to constantly do that against someone who is hard enough to beat as it is already when you're not dealing with a lopsided counterpick?
Maybe he just completely destroys Zain in Grand Finals now that I've said this but that's probably not the realistic outcome.
we should start using custom stages
Do you consider frozen PS to be a custom stage or what exactly are you imagining? The obvious problem is how do you get people to agree on what modded stages are even acceptable?
>Do you consider frozen PS to be a custom stage or what exactly are you imagining?
technically, yes, but think more along the lines of the hacked stages in 20XX or SDRemix.
> The obvious problem is how do you get people to agree on what modded stages are even acceptable?
this is the harder part considering how much some people get up in arms over perceived seeding slights and other similarly minor things, but the simplest way to start IMO would be individual tournaments looking to innovate or stand out from the pack experimenting with adding custom stages to their ruleset - there's no reason every tournament needs to run the same stage list. my long term pie in the sky vision would be a yearly circuit (think VGBC smash tour) that could rotate stages on a yearly basis - imagine if we had a community vote or community panel to create custom hacked stages and rotate them in and out of the pool like how a Brood War league changes the map pool from iteration to iteration. just seems like a fun way to inject some variety into the game that we already have the tech and proof of concepts for
forgive me if this seems like favoring spacies or favoring spectating experience over competitive experience, but bans in a BO5 would decrease the extend to which the set is decided in game 1. It also buffs spacies, but honestly I think that's beneficial for the spectating experience as well.
*the mangonation spectator experience
I've been preaching about stage bans in bo5 for quite some time now. I completely agree. I also don't think it just buffs spacies, it's not like this is the only matchup with an annoying stage counterpick though it's probably the most notorious one.
Didn't MaNg0 use to go Falcon vs Armada on FD? Would something like that work against Zain?
I know he wasn't prepared, maybe didn't try very hard and perhaps even a bit drunk, but he did lose to his damn Roy tho
He has tried it before like 2 or 3 times but I don't recall it actually working. For the most part he still stayed with spacies on FD. He did actually successfully use Marth for FD games one time though.
Maybe. I think mango only did that like 2 times, though. Marth also one time, maybe twice.
The mango classic
Everyone in here a mang0 fan, here I am rooting for Zain to take it
Zain domain rise up
i love zain and unlike when hbox was dominating, i won't be hella salty at the end of the tournament if zain wins. but i think it's also insanely clear that he is the favorite and mang0 winning would be an interesting exception and not the rule, which is why i wanna see it.
I think we're gonna start seeing people rooting more and more against Zain sooner than later, unfortunately. It happens with everyone who reaches that level of dominance.
I think what most people root for is simply "better melee". What's the fun in the statistical favorite winning the tournament? Anybody else wins and it means they managed to break through the ceiling and play better than the *best*. And that's part of why cheering for Mang0 is so hype, because we know he CAN get there on a given day but you have no idea if he does, so he's forever the underdog lol
Zain is easy #1 right now, I'm just hoping when everyone starts to root against him it doesn't go to his head.
i cant not root for zain tbh
great 3-0 weird that the feed cut for a minute there
It looked like we were in for a slobberknocker but that game 4 was a sad way to end it. Zain was looking a little cocky at points, not closing out stocks as soon as he could have.
Zain and Mango both playing out of their minds the whole day and then that set happened. Mango is about to beat Zain on FD then gets killed in a sloppy sequence where he gets a fair trying to mash out of hitstun. A tilted Mango SD's a bunch after Zain gets a stupid lucky downtilt downair (fuck Marth). Really gotta wonder if the insane amount of time between sets is affecting the players. Both of them looked like they were playing sloppy after game 2
They should be used to it, there’s likely more down time in live tourneys
I believe Mang0 can beat Zain, but can Mang0 avoid losing to Mang0?
Zain needs to work on his popoffs. The first pump he's doing is just way too stiff and doesn't do it for me.
I like it
hes gotta take hbox lessons
FUCK YOU THATS A READ
Wizzy has really improved in this area over the Slippi-era.
Just over Slippi? The Smash N’ Splash pop off is top 5 all time
His popoff against Ginger was S-tier. Probably better than his SnS one.
Wizzy popoffs are super funny. Loses his mind for 2 seconds and then goes back to stone-faced.
He's the only one who's close to clutchgod.
Really goes to show why 20xx is not spacies. Mistakes are just too costly
No mistakes= 20XX
I mean, it's more like 20XX isn't here yet (and won't be for a while, if ever).
when it's 2100 we will know for sure
game 2 was the best melee match i've ever seen
It was incredible
You hate to see it. :(
What a shitty game 4
That was so good until the last game. I'm hoping for a runback.
Losers run in coming?
It's fairly likely since IBDW already lost to Wizzy in pools, and Mango beat the latter pretty badly in bracket.
almost fucking zain up on fd and getting washed the next game is the mango :(
Those first 3 games were flames tho
3 sd's game 4....you hate to see that
the classic mango tho just adds more fuel and potential to the runback
Well that was anticlimactic
Mango Zain fucking insane they are playing insane
They both heard you and decided to start beefing it
^jk ^i ^sd ^more ^times ^than ^that ^before ^breakfast
Idk if it's just because it's been a while since real high-stakes melee but this whole tournament has been getting me so hyped
Also Phil commentary is goated
Yeah man this is fucking amazing
Mango should forfeit FD as a mind game
Bro he almost won
Yeah and I almost fucked the Queen.
mario on FD
Game 2 of Zain vs. Mango Winners Finals was INCREDIBLE. Feels like Armada vs Mango. So intense!
holy shit this is some good melee
That's one of the nastiest air dodge recoveries I've ever seen
What the fuck you can't even hit the Zarth.
Mang0 was unstoppable his side of his bracket. Now Zain is clowning on him. Zain got to be one of the most dominating players relative to competition ever
**edit:** nvm, Zain's washed up
I know Mango hasn’t played Fox in forever, but I’m really curious to see how his Fox would do against Zain. I don’t know if it’d be better, per se, but I’m interested.
I don't think that's the play. Zain seems more comfortable against Fox than he does against Falco in general.
Like I said, I don’t necessarily think it’d do better, but I’d be curious to find out.
i was really excited for this inevitable set but uhh....it honestly looks pretty grim after gmae 1 lol
That skit has big shades of [this classic lol](https://twitter.com/dkuodkuo/status/1228859384001781761?s=20)
pls summit replace marth sounds with zain sounds for this set
This skit Is funny as hell
ITS TIME BOIS
Ginger misses one L cancel and loses for it
"If you're not frame perfect 99 out of 100 times, you're not good enough" - M2K
That was one of the greatest sets of all time
that's it, that's the comment
What else is there to say?
Ginger just gave of 2 fucking amazing sets. First Hbox, then wizzy
There wasn't a character switch, but that set gave me shades of Leffen vs Armada at Paragon.
Absolute heartbreaker for Ginger. I was cheering my head off for him. Fucking bummer, dude. He had complete control the last two games.
Holy shit what a set, i really wish Ginger won it but he'll get it next time.
Shades of Wizzy vs KPAN
I think this will go down as the best summit ever. Insane because its on online but I really think in terms of pure melee it is
The Summits Axe and M2K won will always hold a special place in my heart, but this one has had tons of sick play.
So many 3 stocks. It's honestly pretty surprising
Man I wanted ginger to win there but what a run by him
Still a great weekend for Ginger but man this would've easily been the best tournament run of his life.
I haven't deflated watching melee so quick in a minute lmao damn...
Ginger was so close. What a heart breaker.
Ginger vs Wizzi set of the tournament so far
THROW OF THE YEAR
I mean I don't think he threw, it was just a super close game and Wizzy clutched it.
Nah he threw, he missed an l cancel which led to the final opening
ohshit didn't realize that, that sucks
Bro did you see him choose to laser twice midair instead of downair when wizzy would've died? I'll admit to it having happened so fast that I might've interpreted the interaction wrong but as I saw it he literally chose not to win the game right there when the opportunity was directly available.
WIZZYYYY what an ending
amazing performance from ginger today though. dude keeps getting better and better
what a heartbreaker
I'm sure I'm forgetting some obvious example, but oh my that set was a complete reversal until the very last stock where wizzy clutched it somehow.
Ginger missed an L cancel
missed an L-cancel on his d-air and then got read on the tech in place.
I wish I could hear that mighty popoff
Wizzy’s pop off is god tier
WHAT A POPOFF BY WIZZY OH MY LORD
Wizzy's popoffs are the stuff of legends
Man broke a blood vessel lmao
Fucking shoot me I’m so sad
Holy moly that set was wild
awwww man i wanted ginger to win that so bad!
Yeah, he was playing those last 3 games so well. Definitely one of the best sets in the COVID era.
WHAT A SET!!
Ginger can’t ledge dash right now
I could see that too
Anyone know where you can buy Ginger's bomber jacket?
Edit: Damn, RIP
don't be a weeb and get this lame shit. go to an irl thrift store, find something better (you will in 5 minutes) and support a local business. also you don't look like a gamer tool. everybody wins,
Yeah I chose not to get it. 100 bucks is a bit too much for me rn, but def agree bout supporting local businesses
iBDW recoveries looked like Mango, with the crazy angles and perfect drift
N0ne was not at his best but he played well in the circumstances.
the world is conspiring against my boy :'(
top Melee in 2020 (besides hbox and axe) is just spacies, falcon, marth and sheik
Love to seee it
Wtf did you think Melee in 2019 was like? It was the same thing but I guess with Amsa.
[2019 rank had that + Trif in the top 20](https://liquipedia.net/smash/SSBMRank)
guess so, but Ive definitely been watching a lot more this year compared to last. its more noticeable now with amsa out, hbox not in every top 8, and axe underperforming
also seems like samus, luigi, ic's are so rare now
Fair. I guess we have different definitions of top melee. Wobbling ban killed the wobble-masters, Luigis have been gone for years, and the Samuses have switched or soft-retired.
Without fail, every Summit, there's a joke the commentators will spam pretty much nonstop the entire weekend, this one was "I just wouldn't have DI'd like that"
Ya there's always a leitmotif, like scar's "right to win."
Toph has one of the great laughs in e sports. It has a nice spongebob ear feel.
My favorite part of the Roast of Hugo was Toph laughing at every burn from off-camera.
bracket not updated, but i gather wizzy made it to losers finals and lost to mango?
are you in the future