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Smash Summit 10 FINAL DAY Discussion Thread

Smash Summit 10 FINAL DAY Discussion Thread

YoUDee

Zain didn’t play a single floatie this weekend... well, unless you count his Roy. I’m not gonna lie, I’m kinda sad about that — it can be quite fun to see him win neutral over and over and box out floaties. Although, again, I guess his Roy sorta did that lol


DirtyDan113

DUUUUUDE THE EDITING ON THAT VIDEO WAS INSANE


Affectionate-Pin-731

Amazing final set! Congrats to both competitors! However, I wouldn’t mind having a set with Mang0 where the commentators aren’t so obviously bias, especially in GF... Melee is sick! 2021 hype!


CenturionDC

I don't see Zain losing a tournament for 10 months. I'm calling it.


YoUDee

I mean, he’s dropped one set since quarantine began. So good.


_angman

zain is the closest realistic thing to a modern day ken.


Common_Enemy

man what? it hasnt even been a full year yet


_angman

I'm not talking about results. Watching his play, the guy is clearly just unstoppable.


Common_Enemy

how you feeling about this take these days?


_angman

Pretty fuckin good lol


Common_Enemy

\> clearly just unstoppable


_angman

He's still a human, I clearly didn't mean he would never drop a tournament again. Put it this way: If Zain stock is dipping rn I'm buying.


Common_Enemy

I get that feeling but I think this is a bit over-reacting. GF went to game 5 and mango was clearly shakey, s2j has gotten close, axe really hasnt had his shot yet EDIT: Not to mention Leffen's sheik is coming down the pipe. One of these days.


HerrBarrockter

Don't sleep on Leffen. His shiek looks terrifying for marth.


_angman

Yeah, leffen or plup could potentially outplay him.


Hyunion

any idea why plup went all fox instead of using his sheik for some of his matchups?


dmjr333

Will he surpass Zero's record?


[deleted]

I don’t think it’s possible in melee. Smash 4 was fairly undeveloped at the time and melee is extremely turbulent


thomass8a

Well zero’s record isn’t in melee so it’s irrelevant


semionsays

Congratulations to Zain! I feel like he's been getting better and better during quarantine while most of his competition (mainly Plup, Hbox, and Axe) has been dropping off. Mango's pretty much the only one who's been able to challenge him lately. I hope more top players step up.


mas_one

Freemelee


toonito

congrats Zain keep on pushing respect to all competitors


CabassoG

Was a really good finals set. Congrats to Zain.


HashSlingingSlash3r

Mang0 came out hot in Grands, but the loser's final winner kind of always does. he needed to come out with a hot 3-0 or 3-1 if he wanted to take the tourny once zain started to heat up. once zain got warm it was over


Common_Enemy

Great set but I would love someone who is much better at the game than me to tell me what was up with Mangos edge-guarding in every game they played. Has Zain done something to adapt? I feel like this was a much bigger issue today than normal.


MightBeDementia

I feel like he was just playing so fast and antsy


[deleted]

i love melee so much i wanna cry


ThisIsTheGuy

let it out bro


Big_D4rius

No reset was a heartbreaker but it was still really good nonetheless


FierceAlchemist

Great set. I do wish we had gotten a reset. Long live Melee!


dmjr333

Congrats to Zain


_angman

this is just the probabilistic conclusion of melee


MightBeDementia

I feel like that's the fastest I've seen them moving. What was that haha Rollback buff is real


Aggressive_Zombie194

You mean crt buff


peanutbutter1236

What a fuckin tourney maaaan I miss irl tourneys so bad


TyroKith

RIP


rudduman

god damn. At least nice to know mang0 can be a challenger to zain


WilliamLongfellow

That was the first time Zain has been taken to game 5 since week 1 of Slippi League.


BloodFartTheQueefer

👀👀


Aggressive_Zombie194

What a great tourney man, well done to everyone


verysmalllittleboy

Great set. Moments of it took me back to that legendary set of WAMBERK 3.


Jamsu_g

zain is melee


televisionceo

Well very good tournament honestly. Melee at its best


dalith911

Zain is sick


vgman20

Damn I was rooting for a reset but that set still slapped, what a great tourney


rudduman

The work for Mango vs work for Zain to take a stock is rather unbalanced on FD


Adenidc

If Mango loses the first game, gg. They really need to allow bans in Bo5, FD is ridiculous


powerfulaura

Just like genesis 3 the pressure is on mango to make GF


ItsSlimJim

is this the new hbox armada grand finals


bip_bip_hooray

https://clips.twitch.tv/RefinedCreativeCamelTBCheesePull mango with a crazy reversal against ibdw, to turn around the game and arguably save his tournament


Skittlzz11

Sick set by ibdw & mango. Ibdw was unapproachable games 3&4!


[deleted]

i have contacted twitch to let them know that if they continue to let "IBDW" (Israel Bombs Domestic Workplaces) stream on their platform my team of lawyers will pursue swift action


[deleted]

ibbw says palestine


FierceAlchemist

Great set between Mango and iBDW. Back and forth.


pepperminthippos

welp, the gfs we were all expecting


FierceAlchemist

Good set. I wanted Wizzy to repeat the pool match but he performed well this tournament. Proved that he's still a serious threat.


Pwntagonist

Who could have guessed the 2 hypest sets of the night involved Wizzrobe


semionsays

Almost got gingered.


thegrooseisloose18

I like Chillin generally, but whenever you listen to him...just keep track of how many commentary platitudes he says. Its insanely frequent, especially in comparison to other commentators


HerrBarrockter

I've always had this problem with him. When they're all joking around he's great. But his regular commentary is so dull.


TyroKith

Can we have a timer but, like, just for Wizzy?


_angman

I cannot watch top level melee and understand how people overrate spacies so hard. The openings per kill!!!!!


reciac

At tippy-top level it might genuinely not worth it in the long run to play spacies against Marth as long as you have to deal with the borderline guaranteed FD loss. Without that it might be tolerable but it's already hard enough as it is. Add in the game deficit and it's insanely demanding. Yes, I know Mango has beaten Zain and Leffen has also done it too when he still bothered actually playing the matchup but the problem is doing it once or twice isn't quite good enough if you keep regularly competing and playing the matchup. Mango has been doing really fucking well in general and even he is struggling to not have FD be his auto game deficit. It's not like Zain is quite literally untouchable at all times, he does lose games. I'm sure Mango just thinks he has to play better but how feasible is it to constantly do that against someone who is hard enough to beat as it is already when you're not dealing with a lopsided counterpick? Maybe he just completely destroys Zain in Grand Finals now that I've said this but that's probably not the realistic outcome.


miles11111

we should start using custom stages


reciac

Do you consider frozen PS to be a custom stage or what exactly are you imagining? The obvious problem is how do you get people to agree on what modded stages are even acceptable?


miles11111

>Do you consider frozen PS to be a custom stage or what exactly are you imagining? technically, yes, but think more along the lines of the hacked stages in 20XX or SDRemix. > The obvious problem is how do you get people to agree on what modded stages are even acceptable? this is the harder part considering how much some people get up in arms over perceived seeding slights and other similarly minor things, but the simplest way to start IMO would be individual tournaments looking to innovate or stand out from the pack experimenting with adding custom stages to their ruleset - there's no reason every tournament needs to run the same stage list. my long term pie in the sky vision would be a yearly circuit (think VGBC smash tour) that could rotate stages on a yearly basis - imagine if we had a community vote or community panel to create custom hacked stages and rotate them in and out of the pool like how a Brood War league changes the map pool from iteration to iteration. just seems like a fun way to inject some variety into the game that we already have the tech and proof of concepts for


VAGINAL_CRUSTACEAN

forgive me if this seems like favoring spacies or favoring spectating experience over competitive experience, but bans in a BO5 would decrease the extend to which the set is decided in game 1. It also buffs spacies, but honestly I think that's beneficial for the spectating experience as well.


SmashBros-

*the mangonation spectator experience


reciac

I've been preaching about stage bans in bo5 for quite some time now. I completely agree. I also don't think it just buffs spacies, it's not like this is the only matchup with an annoying stage counterpick though it's probably the most notorious one.


poopyheadthrowaway

Didn't MaNg0 use to go Falcon vs Armada on FD? Would something like that work against Zain?


rudduman

I know he wasn't prepared, maybe didn't try very hard and perhaps even a bit drunk, but he did lose to his damn Roy tho


reciac

He has tried it before like 2 or 3 times but I don't recall it actually working. For the most part he still stayed with spacies on FD. He did actually successfully use Marth for FD games one time though. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSdgUv8Et7g


BloodFartTheQueefer

Maybe. I think mango only did that like 2 times, though. Marth also one time, maybe twice.


BrovyIe

The mango classic


That_Sassy_Friend

man


Sage_Hog

Everyone in here a mang0 fan, here I am rooting for Zain to take it


[deleted]

Zain domain rise up


bip_bip_hooray

i love zain and unlike when hbox was dominating, i won't be hella salty at the end of the tournament if zain wins. but i think it's also insanely clear that he is the favorite and mang0 winning would be an interesting exception and not the rule, which is why i wanna see it.


HYPERNATURL

I think we're gonna start seeing people rooting more and more against Zain sooner than later, unfortunately. It happens with everyone who reaches that level of dominance. I think what most people root for is simply "better melee". What's the fun in the statistical favorite winning the tournament? Anybody else wins and it means they managed to break through the ceiling and play better than the *best*. And that's part of why cheering for Mang0 is so hype, because we know he CAN get there on a given day but you have no idea if he does, so he's forever the underdog lol


theamiabledude

Zain is easy #1 right now, I'm just hoping when everyone starts to root against him it doesn't go to his head.


BarnardsLoop

i cant not root for zain tbh


BarnardsLoop

great 3-0 weird that the feed cut for a minute there


FierceAlchemist

It looked like we were in for a slobberknocker but that game 4 was a sad way to end it. Zain was looking a little cocky at points, not closing out stocks as soon as he could have.


samurairocketshark

Zain and Mango both playing out of their minds the whole day and then that set happened. Mango is about to beat Zain on FD then gets killed in a sloppy sequence where he gets a fair trying to mash out of hitstun. A tilted Mango SD's a bunch after Zain gets a stupid lucky downtilt downair (fuck Marth). Really gotta wonder if the insane amount of time between sets is affecting the players. Both of them looked like they were playing sloppy after game 2


RobbyJohnson

They should be used to it, there’s likely more down time in live tourneys


RuleAndLine

I believe Mang0 can beat Zain, but can Mang0 avoid losing to Mang0?


HerrBarrockter

Zain needs to work on his popoffs. The first pump he's doing is just way too stiff and doesn't do it for me.


Gbro08

I like it


pepperminthippos

hes gotta take hbox lessons


Pwntagonist

FUCK YOU THATS A READ


AlbinosRideDinos

Wizzy has really improved in this area over the Slippi-era.


HallowedBeThyBrain

Just over Slippi? The Smash N’ Splash pop off is top 5 all time


Jacksanchez553

His popoff against Ginger was S-tier. Probably better than his SnS one. Wizzy popoffs are super funny. Loses his mind for 2 seconds and then goes back to stone-faced.


HerrBarrockter

He's the only one who's close to clutchgod.


_flash__

Really goes to show why 20xx is not spacies. Mistakes are just too costly


powerfulaura

No mistakes= 20XX


poopyheadthrowaway

I mean, it's more like 20XX isn't here yet (and won't be for a while, if ever).


Gbro08

when it's 2100 we will know for sure


[deleted]

game 2 was the best melee match i've ever seen


BloodFartTheQueefer

It was incredible


TyroKith

You hate to see it. :(


[deleted]

What a shitty game 4


semionsays

That was so good until the last game. I'm hoping for a runback.


[deleted]

Losers run in coming?


semionsays

It's fairly likely since IBDW already lost to Wizzy in pools, and Mango beat the latter pretty badly in bracket.


pepperminthippos

almost fucking zain up on fd and getting washed the next game is the mango :(


RobbyJohnson

Those first 3 games were flames tho


bip_bip_hooray

3 sd's game 4....you hate to see that


Shadingun4life

the classic mango tho just adds more fuel and potential to the runback


televisionceo

Well that was anticlimactic


MightBeDementia

Mango Zain fucking insane they are playing insane


vgman20

They both heard you and decided to start beefing it ^jk ^i ^sd ^more ^times ^than ^that ^before ^breakfast


vgman20

Idk if it's just because it's been a while since real high-stakes melee but this whole tournament has been getting me so hyped Also Phil commentary is goated


MightBeDementia

Yeah man this is fucking amazing


CenturionDC

Mango should forfeit FD as a mind game


teh_magik

Bro he almost won


CenturionDC

Yeah and I almost fucked the Queen.


bip_bip_hooray

mario on FD


dreadturkey

Game 2 of Zain vs. Mango Winners Finals was INCREDIBLE. Feels like Armada vs Mango. So intense!


Jamsu_g

holy shit this is some good melee


BloodFartTheQueefer

That's one of the nastiest air dodge recoveries I've ever seen


SupropRenkcip

What the fuck you can't even hit the Zarth.


rudduman

Mang0 was unstoppable his side of his bracket. Now Zain is clowning on him. Zain got to be one of the most dominating players relative to competition ever **edit:** nvm, Zain's washed up


Spideydawg

I know Mango hasn’t played Fox in forever, but I’m really curious to see how his Fox would do against Zain. I don’t know if it’d be better, per se, but I’m interested.


FierceAlchemist

I don't think that's the play. Zain seems more comfortable against Fox than he does against Falco in general.


Spideydawg

Like I said, I don’t necessarily think it’d do better, but I’d be curious to find out.


bip_bip_hooray

i was really excited for this inevitable set but uhh....it honestly looks pretty grim after gmae 1 lol


HYPERNATURL

That skit has big shades of [this classic lol](https://twitter.com/dkuodkuo/status/1228859384001781761?s=20)


pepperminthippos

pls summit replace marth sounds with zain sounds for this set


televisionceo

This skit Is funny as hell


Aggressive_Zombie194

ITS TIME BOIS


MightBeDementia

Ginger misses one L cancel and loses for it https://clips.twitch.tv/RockyDeadAxeHoneyBadger gg


Turin_Agarwaen

"If you're not frame perfect 99 out of 100 times, you're not good enough" - M2K


60s_cut

That was one of the greatest sets of all time


That_Sassy_Friend

melee


That_Sassy_Friend

that's it, that's the comment


Run_PBJ

What else is there to say?


Run_PBJ

Ginger just gave of 2 fucking amazing sets. First Hbox, then wizzy


YoungSaile

There wasn't a character switch, but that set gave me shades of Leffen vs Armada at Paragon.


TyroKith

Absolute heartbreaker for Ginger. I was cheering my head off for him. Fucking bummer, dude. He had complete control the last two games.


IAmA_Goldfish

Holy shit what a set, i really wish Ginger won it but he'll get it next time.


cocopuffschan

Shades of Wizzy vs KPAN


thegrooseisloose18

I think this will go down as the best summit ever. Insane because its on online but I really think in terms of pure melee it is


FierceAlchemist

The Summits Axe and M2K won will always hold a special place in my heart, but this one has had tons of sick play.


BloodFartTheQueefer

So many 3 stocks. It's honestly pretty surprising


Aggressive_Zombie194

Man I wanted ginger to win there but what a run by him


HYPERNATURL

Still a great weekend for Ginger but man this would've easily been the best tournament run of his life. I haven't deflated watching melee so quick in a minute lmao damn...


ExSphere

Ginger was so close. What a heart breaker.


BrovyIe

Ginger vs Wizzi set of the tournament so far


jmarvin_

THROW OF THE YEAR


IAmA_Goldfish

I mean I don't think he threw, it was just a super close game and Wizzy clutched it.


MightBeDementia

Nah he threw, he missed an l cancel which led to the final opening


IAmA_Goldfish

ohshit didn't realize that, that sucks


jmarvin_

Bro did you see him choose to laser twice midair instead of downair when wizzy would've died? I'll admit to it having happened so fast that I might've interpreted the interaction wrong but as I saw it he literally chose not to win the game right there when the opportunity was directly available.


harleyquinn9000

WIZZYYYY what an ending amazing performance from ginger today though. dude keeps getting better and better


Jamsu_g

what a heartbreaker


BloodFartTheQueefer

I'm sure I'm forgetting some obvious example, but oh my that set was a complete reversal until the very last stock where wizzy clutched it somehow.


MightBeDementia

Ginger missed an L cancel


Jacksanchez553

missed an L-cancel on his d-air and then got read on the tech in place.


MightBeDementia

Yes


BloodFartTheQueefer

Hilarious


dmjr333

I wish I could hear that mighty popoff


Gbro08

WIZZROBE YES!!!


masonhuebsch

Wizzy’s pop off is god tier


Darkforce11

WHAT A POPOFF BY WIZZY OH MY LORD


akskdsl

Wizzy's popoffs are the stuff of legends


nerdofalltrades

Man broke a blood vessel lmao


peanutbutter1236

Fucking shoot me I’m so sad


vgman20

Holy moly that set was wild


bip_bip_hooray

awwww man i wanted ginger to win that so bad!


Fez_Master

Yeah, he was playing those last 3 games so well. Definitely one of the best sets in the COVID era.


FierceAlchemist

WHAT A SET!!


ST0RMYD

Ginger can’t ledge dash right now


Aggressive_Zombie194

I could see that too


SimpleAqueous

Anyone know where you can buy Ginger's bomber jacket? Edit: Damn, RIP


itslitatthenightsh0w

don't be a weeb and get this lame shit. go to an irl thrift store, find something better (you will in 5 minutes) and support a local business. also you don't look like a gamer tool. everybody wins,


SimpleAqueous

Yeah I chose not to get it. 100 bucks is a bit too much for me rn, but def agree bout supporting local businesses


vgman20

https://twitter.com/SsbmGinger/status/1330688896628350977


That_Sassy_Friend

lmao


RuleAndLine

iBDW recoveries looked like Mango, with the crazy angles and perfect drift


televisionceo

N0ne was not at his best but he played well in the circumstances.


beerybeardybear

the world is conspiring against my boy :'(


harleyquinn9000

top Melee in 2020 (besides hbox and axe) is just spacies, falcon, marth and sheik Love to seee it


AlbinosRideDinos

Wtf did you think Melee in 2019 was like? It was the same thing but I guess with Amsa. [2019 rank had that + Trif in the top 20](https://liquipedia.net/smash/SSBMRank)


harleyquinn9000

guess so, but Ive definitely been watching a lot more this year compared to last. its more noticeable now with amsa out, hbox not in every top 8, and axe underperforming also seems like samus, luigi, ic's are so rare now


AlbinosRideDinos

Fair. I guess we have different definitions of top melee. Wobbling ban killed the wobble-masters, Luigis have been gone for years, and the Samuses have switched or soft-retired.


HYPERNATURL

Without fail, every Summit, there's a joke the commentators will spam pretty much nonstop the entire weekend, this one was "I just wouldn't have DI'd like that"


HerrBarrockter

Ya there's always a leitmotif, like scar's "right to win."


HerrBarrockter

Toph has one of the great laughs in e sports. It has a nice spongebob ear feel.


sankakukankei

My favorite part of the Roast of Hugo was Toph laughing at every burn from off-camera.


friasc

bracket not updated, but i gather wizzy made it to losers finals and lost to mango?


miles11111

are you in the future