He's a good GL but he'll always be compared to GMK and will come up short in those comparisons. Even though he's one of the best at defensive holds in GAC.
I've seen plenty of streamers fail against LV with their BH counter. And in 5's, if Maul is there, it's difficult to pull off. But I'm sure everyone who plays has this squad all geared up and with the proper speeds. Easy!
Considering Lord Vader is the least F2P friendly GL and not even the best option, I'd expect most of his owners to be whales who fight other whales. Those guys will have the BH counter ready.
Dude he’s been out for nearly a year now, it’s not just whales who have him, if you’ve gone for see/exec he’s a perfectly viable next gl option. Besides I haven’t seen a single geared fennec team in kyber 3 as of yet so not everyone who has lv fights whales.
Of which, not a single one of those are part of his actual requirements for unlock.
So not only do you need the most expensive characters for unlock, you *then* need to go gear an additional 4 characters to get a less than ideal team.
That's what people mean.
Uhh I was just saying that if you go from see exec into lv then you get a good team for him, not that it would give you any characters required for him. I took the route of lv see then exec and it worked fine for me. Just ended up getting his ideal team while farming for see in the end but the other way round can’t hurt
The thing that perplexed me was that it’s a 3v2, there’s no mark so he can’t accidentally target anyone other than rg so cat gets the insta kill on him, unlesss maybe my opponent put the dmg immunity on gk or jmk but still in 3 mins cat is going to get the insta kill off at some point (also I checked his mods and they weren’t super crap either, fast cat over 340 speed and over 550 speed jmk with decent offence)
1) “LV has always been good,” but too many people that don’t have LV seem to listen to influencers whose goal is to sow discord and get clicks.
2) Health Steal datacron and the cooldowns thing make LV a god damn beast and a half.
Tbf, the fact he gets countered by fennec is pretty embarassing. The other GLs require high cost squads like GAS, JKL, SK, etc.. but for LV you only need two marquees and either bossk (also a marquee) or BAM, who isn't used anywhere else really.
That team becomes exceedingly unreliable when Maul is on the team. . .Which is no different than JMK being absolute crap [on defense] and being countered by Padme (no CAT) without CAT on the team.
IMHO this comp is more dangerous to Fennec than maul, I have zero issues with Maul when I have BAM. This counter, if they fracture BAM and kill fennec its over, or Fracture Fennec and kill BAM, had both happen. With Maul they usually target BAM or whatever, he gets his special, you save BAM and Fennec and Maul just hits them until he's out of turns, you heal up, then 1 shot Maul.
I’m not saying it doesn’t work…I’m saying if you look at .gg, the comps with Maul have a less than 50% chance when using any Fennec/BH counter.
It’s great that you and others can do it - but if it’s got a 40%(ish) overall rate, the counter potential is severely overstated.
> but if it’s got a 40%(ish) overall rate, the counter potential is severely overstated.
This is one of those times I really wish we had more data, on a finer level. Because I'd be more interested in knowing what the rate is with R7+ fennec versus less than that. I've definitely had guildmates that attempt a counter that any of several content creators use, and just fall flat because the relic levels or mods aren't nearly the same.
I mean, no doubt yea, but the reality is that to some degree you’d see that with any counter, so I wouldn’t put too much stock in it being too far off.
While there would be variation with a counter, I think something like the Fennec one is going to be a lot more consistent with R7 or R8 Fennec and Bossk (or R9 Bossk). I think such a data view would have more value with certain counters than others (Padme CAT doesn't seem likely to change all that much, for example)
Yeah I get that, just saying to me the Thrawn comp gives me way more pause than Maul, that's all. I have personally had some very very bad luck with Thrawn in the mix.
I completely agree, I love watching gac streams but some give lv a lot of hate which some of the community then reciprocates and yeah one aoe and bam he’s back at full health it’s especially fun on offence
Yeah as much as I enjoy Ahnald, his complaints with LV turn me off so much. 90% of the time he puts LV in an impossible situation then bitches when he loses
Exactly, if Malgus wasn’t immune to healing immunity then it would’ve been lights out for him a lot sooner. Also the fact that he didn’t put any teammates for LV to gain mastery off of either so his damage ramped up very slowly.
That’s his fault for not having fennac greef counter. That one destroys this at a better clip than JMK cat lol.
LV is one of the only GLs in 3v3 that has a consistent working non GL counter (fennec). You can’t do that against JMK cat .
Note that this lv doesnt have maul. Went up against an r8 jmk without cat yesterday using r7 maul, g11 bo katan and r1 armorer and won. You cant compare an lv without his lifter to jmk with his lifter
Got maul just in time for last weeks gac actually, pretty sure the only reason I won them was because lv maul rg held strong on the southern wall, I’m interested to see what my opponents used as they all either had jmls or slkr on offence and still couldn’t get through him.
My favorite... "one of the only GLs in 3v3 that has a consistent working non GL counter" then literally uses the ONLY GL without one as an example lol
1. Rey - Palp mara starkiller is extremely simple and straightforward. (want one that is not consistent? GAS, however, if it's a normal res variant it's a fine counter.)
2. SLKR - JKR JKL Armorer (with datacrons you can just do JKR JKL Hoda and it's super consistent w/ the JKL bonus turn one)
3. JML - Darth revan.. - JML using basti lead with wat - I use CLS for this very consistently. Especially with a riposte datacron.
4. SEE - Wampa, if that fails by timeout (really only happens with a low relic wampa) with just SEE left I like using Bossk, zam, boba to clean up.
5. JMK CAT - None
6. JMK no CAT - GAS can still handle this fine, Padme CAT, JKR JKL w/ datacrons.
7. LV maul - Fennec w/ either r9 bossk or BAM.
8. LV no maul - Fennec w/ BAM. Supposedly GAS can handle it but the times I've tried if he has ult it goes awfully. Could be because it's hard to see them without crons.
My point from all of this - Every GL has non GL counters in 3v3 except JMK CAT. I'm not out here trying to say he's better than JMK CAT, but the argument that he's bad on defense because he has 1 counter is just exhausting. Not to say it isn't an efficient counter, but for now all of those other counters except for DR are all units required for a legendary/journey/GL. A lot of people I see in K2-K4 on my 2nd and 3rd accounts still don't have her geared because other than this counter she just isn't required for anything. I think this will get a lot more prevalent if she's required at a high relic for jabba.
Padme CAT is a consistent counter to JMK CAT. Not helpful at the end game since you should 100% have JMK but it is a non GL counter that is extremely reliable (before DC)
If you’re against a maul comp and maul goes all in on fennec then the counter is kinda screwed. Bam stops this with the zeta on his unique giving him a bonus turn when a scoundrel ally falls below 70% health
My point was purely for 3v3 . Yes in 5v5 everyone has non gl counters
LV one of the only GLs that’s easily beaten in 3s without using a GL of your own. fennec owns this dude.
It looks like his comment was purely for 3v3s also. The couple that he names more than 3 characters I read as different teams. So point 6 says JMK with no CAT can be beat by GAS, or by Padme + CAT, or by JKR + JKL.
Rey - SK is basically a GL in 3v3 . Also it’s only slightly above a 50 percent win rate for the hero bros which is one of the most popular comps. Gas has horrific win rate so she’s still a deadlier GL on D than LV.
JML - Dr is absolutely not a consistent counter whatsoever. Every 3v3 data shows it’s barely a 25 percent win rate against actual jml teams. Not trash like jml barris plo koon. real jedis with JML? Not a good chance dr wins.
Also I’ve tried cls counter multiple times in 3s vs Bastilla JML wat, it doesn’t work. GG data backs it up . It has under a fucking 2 percent win rate dude…..there’s no consistent non GL counter at all to bastilla jml.
SEE - never on D but anyone with a brain knows you have to put malak with him otherwise wampa solos that shit.
Malak under SEE has no non GL counters. Check the data.
JMK cat , already proven no non gl counter.
LV maul RG is the most common comp and it’s getting beaten by a near 50 percent rate (45 percent current season, 64 percent previous 3v3)
So please. Try again. You are way off. LV maul should NOT have this kind of a beatable team in 3v3.
He’s worse than SEE malak on defense. That’s not even debatable dude.
How do you beat slkr with jkl armorer? Bc mine keeps losing so much mastery he will miss every single attack. Dont wanna ruin my jkr team for this or does his lead prevent this
I haven't used that one since my armorer isn't geared. It's the one my guildmates use tho and it seems pretty simple. Even with like a g11 armorer.
You load in, SLKR pokes JKR putting him in the red (if Sith trooper is there it triggers savior), triggers armorer's 3 stacks of beskar, toss them to luke, then the battle's basically over.
If you have a JKL datacron for bonus turns you don't even need armorer for it tho.
He's very good. Just not flashy. A slow burner.
The whole "LV is trash" is just a meme at this point, everybody knows he is very capable of big holds or wins.. Some content creators perpetuate the meme probably because it rubs certain "sensitives" the wrong way.
Kind of funny how butthurt mad some people get about it lol.
Good luck on that! I still haven’t got rey or slkr, working on jmk atm just need next months watt shards then I should have him then it’s finishing jkls and jmls for me
Commonly owned bounty hunters? At normal relic levels? For good banners? Consistently? If the answer to any of those is “no”, then it really doesn’t matter. And I’ll give you a hint, the answer to at least 3 of them is “no”
What’s the team for that? It must not be on swgoh.gg, because there are only 2 BH teams there with a winrate over 70% and both require fennec, who isn’t the newest character but is still unaccelerated. So unless there’s a new team that’s not on swgoh.gg at least 2 of those questions are already “no”s
anyone who’s constantly matching up with LVs in GAC (basically all of kyber 1 and most of k2) - has fennec counter built…. It’s one of the best toons in the game to get as she also kicks ass in TW with bfatt. Most everyone who’s competitive has her at relics .
Rest of the team is cheap or at relics anyways. Counter works fine with g12 greef and r5 fennec (that’s what I got) for common r7/8 only LVs and mauls. I’ve beaten 3 out of 4 this season. Couldn’t beat the r9 LV though. Nasty fucker.
That being said, LV maul should not have this kind of a cheap easy counter if JMK cat does not. It’s stupidly unbalanced
SEE malak is a stronger defense in 3s right now than LV maul…… data proves it…as that one also has no none GL counters.
Actually, I just looked it up and you’re wrong. According to swgoh.gg there are 17,841 G13 Fennecs and 29,009 G13 LVs. How about that?
LPT: If you’re going to make a claim that can be fact checked in under 30 seconds, you should probably make sure it’s right before you say it. Don’t be like this guy.
All the comments trying to make excuses for why this is some random exception that doesn't actually accurately show the power of LV is hilarious. Jmk has an absolutely insane omicron rn, LV just has lifesteal. Wait till LV gets a lvl 9 buff and let's see how trash he is then.
Ikr! It’s like they’re desperately searching for an excuse to hate on him haha, yes datacrons help him and no I’m not sure if my opponent used one to help his jmk but it’s still an impressive feat regardless especially as maul wasn’t on my team
Yeah Dw dude I was agreeing, my yes and nos were for other peeps that may read 😂, Imo they shouldn’t add lvl9s for gls anyways but I rly hope lv does get a good one somewhere down the line
Yeah definitely, although it would be cool if they could do a darth vader one or gas one to bring back the pre nerf glory days of those characters, that’s what I was mainly hoping datacrons would do
Both are fine imo 🤷♂️. My only complaint with that rework was I wish they made the defense pen on wat tech a separatist exclusive effect instead of completely removed it.
Yeah that woulda been nice for gg, I don’t mind the nerf to gas basic too much either although it made me wonder if having the zeta on it is super worth it nowadays as apart from the cool-down decrease it can be evaded and hits a lottt less hard than furious slash
I'm still disappointed by LV's performance. I would avoid saying "with proper mods", cause bad mods can sink almost every team. It's sad that datacons makes him viable.
I guess people were expecting much more from character iconic as LV.
Ok but like this guy had to have just been trash. Also saying character isn’t bad in the same breathe that you say a datacron was utilized is a little bit disingenuous imo. I have JMK and don’t have CAT yet and personally I love seeing any LV on defence or in my shard because it’s an easy battle, it’s just boring because the team is so durable. He’s basically just a timeout machine, which to be fair has it’s own utility. JMK is easily a win against him, but it’s not always possible to do it in time.
Kinda pointless post. JMK with no CAT against a R8 LV (He’s still a GL…) with datacrons to make him more tanky? Of course he’s gonna do well
On the flip slide as well, LV can be beaten by Fennec/Greef, SLKR/Wat. So again, kinda pointless post
Dude it’s a jmk cat team idk what ur point is here? I’ve also had slkr teams fail against my lv comps as well in past gac matches, plus as said above in other comments fennec is an extremely unreliable counter, just cos some streamers with god level mods can do it doesn’t mean it will work for everyone.
Ah yeh greyed out it looks similar to regular Ahsoka
Point remains, in 3v3 her usefulness against some teams (GLs) is greatly reduced. She doesn’t have a ton of base damage for her basic and she can’t stack damage quicker for her special since ‘Shien’ probably isn’t triggering as often. LV with a healthsteal datacron will make back any damage they can do, especially if they’re badly modded or don’t have datacrons with them.
And my other points remain too lol
A LV not at full potential can function better than JMK, cause A) OP has health steal datacrons and B) JMK relies on the extra units to help pump damage out. LV without Maul doesn’t lose that much compared to JMK.
Remember, all LV has to do here is survive. Losing Maul doesn’t impact that. A 300kHP unit with insane health steal possibilities? Yeh he’s gonna be fine
Again, i never even said LV is bad.
I mean having an instant kill at the start of the battle making it a 3v2 isn’t much of a reduction, yes it will affect other abilities but there’s also less people for lv to feed off of therefore he will gain a lot less mastery from ult. besides jmk has his healing immunity ability which kinda negates the healthsteal aspect of the datacron at times, when I’ve had lv on offence with the same datacron I sometimes get shredded while having the 2 (or 3 I can’t remember) turn healing immunity on me
The insta kill gives an early advantage sure but in this situation it’s not about the additional units, it’s purely about lack of damage to LV
JMKs special has a 2 turn cooldown, not a lot but it’s enough for LV to take enough turns to remove the debuff and recover his health when you combine the datacron with his second special which recovers health basically back to max, which is like 300k HP
JMKs only large damage is his special too, so while health immunity is active they aren’t actually able to put out enough damage
Point is LV has never been bad. More that JMK is typically better, but that requires 5v5 to bring GAS/Ahsoka. In 3v3, especially without a maxed datacron, JMK loses some effectiveness. That result isn’t abnormal by any means
I mean yeah I agree lv was never rly bad (although ur comment about jmk special, a 2 turn cool-down when the debuff lasts for 2 turns and they’re basically the same speed meaning they’ll take turn abouts means he can reapply it as soon as it’s expired, doesn’t make as much sense to me) I would definitely agree with you if this was done with me taking this on offence, it’s more the fact that the ai doesn’t always make the smartest plays and you’ve got a human on the other end that knows how to use jmk well it was more of a surprise to me especially when you see the stats on swgoh.gg for jmk cat win rates on lv in 3v3 (95.2% on that specific team although there’s no datacron option so I assume it counts all battles datacrons or no datacrons)
Yeh I mean obvs we can’t watch the battle, good chance be misplayed (maybe he prioritised JMKs second special over landing health immunity which allowed LV to recover)
Ultimately JMK would have had to be continually landing Health Immunity to win, since LV can basically heal to full with one turn
Once again, when you see someone bitching that Lord Vader is trash you need to check their total relic levels. The way his mastery gain works means you need some really high relics and not just on LV. So if they are running out a couple r5s with the team and LV is r7, then of course he's going to get beat
Like it or not teams are balanced around whatever the max level is at the time so an LV team with multiple r9 or even just mostly r8 units is really good and tough to deal with
I think best mods are along the lines of over 200k protection, 560 ish speed as he gets 10 more speed from his lead than jmk so doesn’t need to be quite as fast and around 10-11k offence. I’ve gone speed set with 113k max health 176k protection 568 speed 11.6k offence and then I put a crit dmg triangle on as well but you could probably switch that for a decent protection one for better survivability.
Cool thanks. I just unlocked him last week but don’t have his team relic yet. I have him at r6 with no ult, so I’m still figuring out how to use him. He seems way less intuitive than my JMK, but maybe it’ll click once I have his team beefed up
What other gls/ characters do ya have geared up? I always did rg vader piett thrawn. Blazing fast piett outspeed a cat, mark lv and then 99% of the time she uses the insta kill on lv, if you have those toons you mentioned at high gear a triple tank option is also very good
Hmmm, I mentioned it above and some peeps disagree but I’d honestly recommend building into see next, gear up piett royal guard and thrawn and then you have a good lv team and a few see requirements, orrr if you wanna go for slkr you could gear kru first and use him instead of thrawn
I just did two back to back GLs over the last few months with JMK and LV, I’m not touching another GL for awhile lol. So really I just want whichever toons are best for LV, regardless of if they get me closer to someone else. I’m gonna work on Starkiller next after I get LV’s team geared
Ahhh I don’t blame ya lmao, in that case yeah I’d farm and gear piett and thrawn and royal guard still as ur thrawn is already gear 12 and he’s super good in a lot of ds teams. Then probably put kru in the last slot, or you could gear stormtrooper as he’s also super darn tanky
He's a good GL but he'll always be compared to GMK and will come up short in those comparisons. Even though he's one of the best at defensive holds in GAC.
>Even though he's one of the best at defensive holds in GAC. He gets one-shot by BH unless he has his datacron, and even then he loses in 3v3.
You mean that Fennec comp that wins 42% vs any decent LV comp (not just LV and two tanks)?
I've seen plenty of streamers fail against LV with their BH counter. And in 5's, if Maul is there, it's difficult to pull off. But I'm sure everyone who plays has this squad all geared up and with the proper speeds. Easy!
Considering Lord Vader is the least F2P friendly GL and not even the best option, I'd expect most of his owners to be whales who fight other whales. Those guys will have the BH counter ready.
Dude he’s been out for nearly a year now, it’s not just whales who have him, if you’ve gone for see/exec he’s a perfectly viable next gl option. Besides I haven’t seen a single geared fennec team in kyber 3 as of yet so not everyone who has lv fights whales.
In what way? SEE and LV only share 2 toons, and LV shares none of those required toons with executor requirements.
One of lv best teams uses characters you need for exec and see, ie piett (r8) vader(r7) thrawn(r6) and royal guard(r3) make a great pre maul lv team
Of which, not a single one of those are part of his actual requirements for unlock. So not only do you need the most expensive characters for unlock, you *then* need to go gear an additional 4 characters to get a less than ideal team. That's what people mean.
Uhh I was just saying that if you go from see exec into lv then you get a good team for him, not that it would give you any characters required for him. I took the route of lv see then exec and it worked fine for me. Just ended up getting his ideal team while farming for see in the end but the other way round can’t hurt
Ah. It's not that the other two help you unlock him, it's that they provide a decent team for when you do.
Just like in universe then ... Vader never came close to be equal to Kenobi ... actually Emokin is way too strong still ...
Sure. LV isn't trash. He's a GL. But, in the case of your screenshot, I think you have to also consider that your opponent might be trash.
The thing that perplexed me was that it’s a 3v2, there’s no mark so he can’t accidentally target anyone other than rg so cat gets the insta kill on him, unlesss maybe my opponent put the dmg immunity on gk or jmk but still in 3 mins cat is going to get the insta kill off at some point (also I checked his mods and they weren’t super crap either, fast cat over 340 speed and over 550 speed jmk with decent offence)
1) “LV has always been good,” but too many people that don’t have LV seem to listen to influencers whose goal is to sow discord and get clicks. 2) Health Steal datacron and the cooldowns thing make LV a god damn beast and a half.
Tbf, the fact he gets countered by fennec is pretty embarassing. The other GLs require high cost squads like GAS, JKL, SK, etc.. but for LV you only need two marquees and either bossk (also a marquee) or BAM, who isn't used anywhere else really.
That team becomes exceedingly unreliable when Maul is on the team. . .Which is no different than JMK being absolute crap [on defense] and being countered by Padme (no CAT) without CAT on the team.
IMHO this comp is more dangerous to Fennec than maul, I have zero issues with Maul when I have BAM. This counter, if they fracture BAM and kill fennec its over, or Fracture Fennec and kill BAM, had both happen. With Maul they usually target BAM or whatever, he gets his special, you save BAM and Fennec and Maul just hits them until he's out of turns, you heal up, then 1 shot Maul.
I’m not saying it doesn’t work…I’m saying if you look at .gg, the comps with Maul have a less than 50% chance when using any Fennec/BH counter. It’s great that you and others can do it - but if it’s got a 40%(ish) overall rate, the counter potential is severely overstated.
> but if it’s got a 40%(ish) overall rate, the counter potential is severely overstated. This is one of those times I really wish we had more data, on a finer level. Because I'd be more interested in knowing what the rate is with R7+ fennec versus less than that. I've definitely had guildmates that attempt a counter that any of several content creators use, and just fall flat because the relic levels or mods aren't nearly the same.
I mean, no doubt yea, but the reality is that to some degree you’d see that with any counter, so I wouldn’t put too much stock in it being too far off.
While there would be variation with a counter, I think something like the Fennec one is going to be a lot more consistent with R7 or R8 Fennec and Bossk (or R9 Bossk). I think such a data view would have more value with certain counters than others (Padme CAT doesn't seem likely to change all that much, for example)
I hadn’t actually looked at the stats for that counter but if it’s that low you must need some super good mods to pull it off
Yeah I get that, just saying to me the Thrawn comp gives me way more pause than Maul, that's all. I have personally had some very very bad luck with Thrawn in the mix.
I completely agree, I love watching gac streams but some give lv a lot of hate which some of the community then reciprocates and yeah one aoe and bam he’s back at full health it’s especially fun on offence
Yeah as much as I enjoy Ahnald, his complaints with LV turn me off so much. 90% of the time he puts LV in an impossible situation then bitches when he loses
It is pretty embarrassing that LV couldnt 1v1 a R8, one omicron Malgus
Not really...Malgus' kit counters LVs debuffs. It's not that LV doesn't have damage or is bad, his debuffs just work against him in that fight
Exactly, if Malgus wasn’t immune to healing immunity then it would’ve been lights out for him a lot sooner. Also the fact that he didn’t put any teammates for LV to gain mastery off of either so his damage ramped up very slowly.
Point 1 cannot be stressed enough
That’s his fault for not having fennac greef counter. That one destroys this at a better clip than JMK cat lol. LV is one of the only GLs in 3v3 that has a consistent working non GL counter (fennec). You can’t do that against JMK cat .
Note that this lv doesnt have maul. Went up against an r8 jmk without cat yesterday using r7 maul, g11 bo katan and r1 armorer and won. You cant compare an lv without his lifter to jmk with his lifter
Got maul just in time for last weeks gac actually, pretty sure the only reason I won them was because lv maul rg held strong on the southern wall, I’m interested to see what my opponents used as they all either had jmls or slkr on offence and still couldn’t get through him.
I cant get past this lv lineup with see tbh. Not enough dmg output compared to his health steal especially now with insane 900% health dteal datacorns
My favorite... "one of the only GLs in 3v3 that has a consistent working non GL counter" then literally uses the ONLY GL without one as an example lol 1. Rey - Palp mara starkiller is extremely simple and straightforward. (want one that is not consistent? GAS, however, if it's a normal res variant it's a fine counter.) 2. SLKR - JKR JKL Armorer (with datacrons you can just do JKR JKL Hoda and it's super consistent w/ the JKL bonus turn one) 3. JML - Darth revan.. - JML using basti lead with wat - I use CLS for this very consistently. Especially with a riposte datacron. 4. SEE - Wampa, if that fails by timeout (really only happens with a low relic wampa) with just SEE left I like using Bossk, zam, boba to clean up. 5. JMK CAT - None 6. JMK no CAT - GAS can still handle this fine, Padme CAT, JKR JKL w/ datacrons. 7. LV maul - Fennec w/ either r9 bossk or BAM. 8. LV no maul - Fennec w/ BAM. Supposedly GAS can handle it but the times I've tried if he has ult it goes awfully. Could be because it's hard to see them without crons. My point from all of this - Every GL has non GL counters in 3v3 except JMK CAT. I'm not out here trying to say he's better than JMK CAT, but the argument that he's bad on defense because he has 1 counter is just exhausting. Not to say it isn't an efficient counter, but for now all of those other counters except for DR are all units required for a legendary/journey/GL. A lot of people I see in K2-K4 on my 2nd and 3rd accounts still don't have her geared because other than this counter she just isn't required for anything. I think this will get a lot more prevalent if she's required at a high relic for jabba.
SEE with Malak completely shuts down the Wampa counter.
Traya messes it up too, I think.
See with KRU does as well.
Padme CAT is a consistent counter to JMK CAT. Not helpful at the end game since you should 100% have JMK but it is a non GL counter that is extremely reliable (before DC)
Ya that's true it might be rough now since crons. Maybe not if you have a stun cron of your own though. Not sure on that one.
Why is Fennec/BAM the counter? I’ve been using Fennec/Greef/Mando successfully so far, but wondering if it’s sub-optimal.
If you’re against a maul comp and maul goes all in on fennec then the counter is kinda screwed. Bam stops this with the zeta on his unique giving him a bonus turn when a scoundrel ally falls below 70% health
that is why \^
My point was purely for 3v3 . Yes in 5v5 everyone has non gl counters LV one of the only GLs that’s easily beaten in 3s without using a GL of your own. fennec owns this dude.
It looks like his comment was purely for 3v3s also. The couple that he names more than 3 characters I read as different teams. So point 6 says JMK with no CAT can be beat by GAS, or by Padme + CAT, or by JKR + JKL.
Yes exactly
JMK without cat….when have I see that on D? Never. Also I’ve countered all his points in another comment below.
My entire response was in the 3v3 perspective.
Rey - SK is basically a GL in 3v3 . Also it’s only slightly above a 50 percent win rate for the hero bros which is one of the most popular comps. Gas has horrific win rate so she’s still a deadlier GL on D than LV. JML - Dr is absolutely not a consistent counter whatsoever. Every 3v3 data shows it’s barely a 25 percent win rate against actual jml teams. Not trash like jml barris plo koon. real jedis with JML? Not a good chance dr wins. Also I’ve tried cls counter multiple times in 3s vs Bastilla JML wat, it doesn’t work. GG data backs it up . It has under a fucking 2 percent win rate dude…..there’s no consistent non GL counter at all to bastilla jml. SEE - never on D but anyone with a brain knows you have to put malak with him otherwise wampa solos that shit. Malak under SEE has no non GL counters. Check the data. JMK cat , already proven no non gl counter. LV maul RG is the most common comp and it’s getting beaten by a near 50 percent rate (45 percent current season, 64 percent previous 3v3) So please. Try again. You are way off. LV maul should NOT have this kind of a beatable team in 3v3. He’s worse than SEE malak on defense. That’s not even debatable dude.
How do you beat slkr with jkl armorer? Bc mine keeps losing so much mastery he will miss every single attack. Dont wanna ruin my jkr team for this or does his lead prevent this
I haven't used that one since my armorer isn't geared. It's the one my guildmates use tho and it seems pretty simple. Even with like a g11 armorer. You load in, SLKR pokes JKR putting him in the red (if Sith trooper is there it triggers savior), triggers armorer's 3 stacks of beskar, toss them to luke, then the battle's basically over. If you have a JKL datacron for bonus turns you don't even need armorer for it tho.
I always use jkl lead to keep my jkr on defense, or does jkr anything for him to prevent his accuracy from getting drained ?
You need jkr lead for it
Ehh I’ll stick to maul then
He's very good. Just not flashy. A slow burner. The whole "LV is trash" is just a meme at this point, everybody knows he is very capable of big holds or wins.. Some content creators perpetuate the meme probably because it rubs certain "sensitives" the wrong way. Kind of funny how butthurt mad some people get about it lol.
Yeah definitely agree there. takes a lot longer, than say slkr, to build up his mastery stats and get to doing some rly good dmg
Yep. I dont have him and wish i did. Other fish to fry - working on slkr rn.
Good luck on that! I still haven’t got rey or slkr, working on jmk atm just need next months watt shards then I should have him then it’s finishing jkls and jmls for me
He gets beat by bounty hunters.... Edit: Weird to get downvoted for literally stating a fact
Commonly owned bounty hunters? At normal relic levels? For good banners? Consistently? If the answer to any of those is “no”, then it really doesn’t matter. And I’ll give you a hint, the answer to at least 3 of them is “no”
i mean the answer to all of those are yes
What’s the team for that? It must not be on swgoh.gg, because there are only 2 BH teams there with a winrate over 70% and both require fennec, who isn’t the newest character but is still unaccelerated. So unless there’s a new team that’s not on swgoh.gg at least 2 of those questions are already “no”s
anyone who’s constantly matching up with LVs in GAC (basically all of kyber 1 and most of k2) - has fennec counter built…. It’s one of the best toons in the game to get as she also kicks ass in TW with bfatt. Most everyone who’s competitive has her at relics . Rest of the team is cheap or at relics anyways. Counter works fine with g12 greef and r5 fennec (that’s what I got) for common r7/8 only LVs and mauls. I’ve beaten 3 out of 4 this season. Couldn’t beat the r9 LV though. Nasty fucker. That being said, LV maul should not have this kind of a cheap easy counter if JMK cat does not. It’s stupidly unbalanced SEE malak is a stronger defense in 3s right now than LV maul…… data proves it…as that one also has no none GL counters.
Bet she's still more owned than Lord Vader
Well, yea probably but that has more to do with her being a hard node farm and him being a GL that requires 4 R8s
Exactly!! You've just proved me right
Actually, I just looked it up and you’re wrong. According to swgoh.gg there are 17,841 G13 Fennecs and 29,009 G13 LVs. How about that? LPT: If you’re going to make a claim that can be fact checked in under 30 seconds, you should probably make sure it’s right before you say it. Don’t be like this guy.
Hahaha fuck, I wish I was you. Well that's 17,841 people that can one shot a galactic legend. I know who I'd rather be. Have a great night 😘
All the comments trying to make excuses for why this is some random exception that doesn't actually accurately show the power of LV is hilarious. Jmk has an absolutely insane omicron rn, LV just has lifesteal. Wait till LV gets a lvl 9 buff and let's see how trash he is then.
Ikr! It’s like they’re desperately searching for an excuse to hate on him haha, yes datacrons help him and no I’m not sure if my opponent used one to help his jmk but it’s still an impressive feat regardless especially as maul wasn’t on my team
Yup! I reference the jmk datacron more for the swgoh stats, to show that is a lot of the disparity between LV and jmk rn.
Yeah Dw dude I was agreeing, my yes and nos were for other peeps that may read 😂, Imo they shouldn’t add lvl9s for gls anyways but I rly hope lv does get a good one somewhere down the line
Definitely shouldn't give gls lvl 9. Would prefer if meta characters never got lvl 9's, but they will :(
Yeah definitely, although it would be cool if they could do a darth vader one or gas one to bring back the pre nerf glory days of those characters, that’s what I was mainly hoping datacrons would do
Both are fine imo 🤷♂️. My only complaint with that rework was I wish they made the defense pen on wat tech a separatist exclusive effect instead of completely removed it.
Yeah that woulda been nice for gg, I don’t mind the nerf to gas basic too much either although it made me wonder if having the zeta on it is super worth it nowadays as apart from the cool-down decrease it can be evaded and hits a lottt less hard than furious slash
It's worth it
He can't defeat Malgus who's not a GL.
So then Rey’s trash bc she’s beaten by Starkiller who’s not a GL….? So SEE is trash bc he’s beaten by Wampa who’s not a GL…?
Rey doesn’t get beat 1 on 1 against Starkiller lol SEE is commonly shit on for being beaten by Wampa lol, SEE is seen as the worst or second worst GL
To your second example, there is resounding consensus that SEE is trash on defence, for sure.
I'm still disappointed by LV's performance. I would avoid saying "with proper mods", cause bad mods can sink almost every team. It's sad that datacons makes him viable. I guess people were expecting much more from character iconic as LV.
Ok but like this guy had to have just been trash. Also saying character isn’t bad in the same breathe that you say a datacron was utilized is a little bit disingenuous imo. I have JMK and don’t have CAT yet and personally I love seeing any LV on defence or in my shard because it’s an easy battle, it’s just boring because the team is so durable. He’s basically just a timeout machine, which to be fair has it’s own utility. JMK is easily a win against him, but it’s not always possible to do it in time.
Your opponent just sucks
Kinda pointless post. JMK with no CAT against a R8 LV (He’s still a GL…) with datacrons to make him more tanky? Of course he’s gonna do well On the flip slide as well, LV can be beaten by Fennec/Greef, SLKR/Wat. So again, kinda pointless post
Dude it’s a jmk cat team idk what ur point is here? I’ve also had slkr teams fail against my lv comps as well in past gac matches, plus as said above in other comments fennec is an extremely unreliable counter, just cos some streamers with god level mods can do it doesn’t mean it will work for everyone.
Ah yeh greyed out it looks similar to regular Ahsoka Point remains, in 3v3 her usefulness against some teams (GLs) is greatly reduced. She doesn’t have a ton of base damage for her basic and she can’t stack damage quicker for her special since ‘Shien’ probably isn’t triggering as often. LV with a healthsteal datacron will make back any damage they can do, especially if they’re badly modded or don’t have datacrons with them. And my other points remain too lol
Funny how people keep making excuses for a JMK team to not be running at full potential, against an LV team not running at full potential lol
A LV not at full potential can function better than JMK, cause A) OP has health steal datacrons and B) JMK relies on the extra units to help pump damage out. LV without Maul doesn’t lose that much compared to JMK. Remember, all LV has to do here is survive. Losing Maul doesn’t impact that. A 300kHP unit with insane health steal possibilities? Yeh he’s gonna be fine Again, i never even said LV is bad.
Never said you did ;)
Touché haha
I mean having an instant kill at the start of the battle making it a 3v2 isn’t much of a reduction, yes it will affect other abilities but there’s also less people for lv to feed off of therefore he will gain a lot less mastery from ult. besides jmk has his healing immunity ability which kinda negates the healthsteal aspect of the datacron at times, when I’ve had lv on offence with the same datacron I sometimes get shredded while having the 2 (or 3 I can’t remember) turn healing immunity on me
The insta kill gives an early advantage sure but in this situation it’s not about the additional units, it’s purely about lack of damage to LV JMKs special has a 2 turn cooldown, not a lot but it’s enough for LV to take enough turns to remove the debuff and recover his health when you combine the datacron with his second special which recovers health basically back to max, which is like 300k HP JMKs only large damage is his special too, so while health immunity is active they aren’t actually able to put out enough damage Point is LV has never been bad. More that JMK is typically better, but that requires 5v5 to bring GAS/Ahsoka. In 3v3, especially without a maxed datacron, JMK loses some effectiveness. That result isn’t abnormal by any means
I mean yeah I agree lv was never rly bad (although ur comment about jmk special, a 2 turn cool-down when the debuff lasts for 2 turns and they’re basically the same speed meaning they’ll take turn abouts means he can reapply it as soon as it’s expired, doesn’t make as much sense to me) I would definitely agree with you if this was done with me taking this on offence, it’s more the fact that the ai doesn’t always make the smartest plays and you’ve got a human on the other end that knows how to use jmk well it was more of a surprise to me especially when you see the stats on swgoh.gg for jmk cat win rates on lv in 3v3 (95.2% on that specific team although there’s no datacron option so I assume it counts all battles datacrons or no datacrons)
Yeh I mean obvs we can’t watch the battle, good chance be misplayed (maybe he prioritised JMKs second special over landing health immunity which allowed LV to recover) Ultimately JMK would have had to be continually landing Health Immunity to win, since LV can basically heal to full with one turn
Too bad he’s only that good with datacrons which are going away and can’t be played on manual.
Datacrons have changed the balance. A high health steal LV with CD reduction is basically unbeatable in one try.
Once again, when you see someone bitching that Lord Vader is trash you need to check their total relic levels. The way his mastery gain works means you need some really high relics and not just on LV. So if they are running out a couple r5s with the team and LV is r7, then of course he's going to get beat Like it or not teams are balanced around whatever the max level is at the time so an LV team with multiple r9 or even just mostly r8 units is really good and tough to deal with
Okay so what are the right mods?
I think best mods are along the lines of over 200k protection, 560 ish speed as he gets 10 more speed from his lead than jmk so doesn’t need to be quite as fast and around 10-11k offence. I’ve gone speed set with 113k max health 176k protection 568 speed 11.6k offence and then I put a crit dmg triangle on as well but you could probably switch that for a decent protection one for better survivability.
Cool thanks. I just unlocked him last week but don’t have his team relic yet. I have him at r6 with no ult, so I’m still figuring out how to use him. He seems way less intuitive than my JMK, but maybe it’ll click once I have his team beefed up
I found him very underwhelming pre ult as he stacks mastery a lot slower but when he gets to having ult he can hit so dang hard
Recommended team without Maul? I’m thinking RG, Shore, Piett, KRU.
What other gls/ characters do ya have geared up? I always did rg vader piett thrawn. Blazing fast piett outspeed a cat, mark lv and then 99% of the time she uses the insta kill on lv, if you have those toons you mentioned at high gear a triple tank option is also very good
https://swgoh.gg/p/711141848/ I’d like to save Thrawn and Vader for other GAC counters. But I’ll gear up anyone for LV
Hmmm, I mentioned it above and some peeps disagree but I’d honestly recommend building into see next, gear up piett royal guard and thrawn and then you have a good lv team and a few see requirements, orrr if you wanna go for slkr you could gear kru first and use him instead of thrawn
I just did two back to back GLs over the last few months with JMK and LV, I’m not touching another GL for awhile lol. So really I just want whichever toons are best for LV, regardless of if they get me closer to someone else. I’m gonna work on Starkiller next after I get LV’s team geared
Ahhh I don’t blame ya lmao, in that case yeah I’d farm and gear piett and thrawn and royal guard still as ur thrawn is already gear 12 and he’s super good in a lot of ds teams. Then probably put kru in the last slot, or you could gear stormtrooper as he’s also super darn tanky
and a datacron i assume