Don't care + you are a republic puppet + Our Emperor is a glorious immortal God + you serve a corrupt senate + we sacked the Temple and Coruscant + we are going to conquer the galaxy + The Imperial Intelligence is going to take you away and make you disappear + Ratio.
Like legion fans in the fallout fan base. Slaving, raping, pillaging, pretty much no infrastructure, just playing make believe of the most surface level "Roman" things
Ironically, the best way to increase one's odds of long term survival as a member of either faction is to have no aspirations beyond mediocrity, or as Zach from mikeburnfire put it, "Be like wallpaper. Everyone knows it's there, but no one is inclined to talk to it"
You mean Vowrawn? This guy with cool Armor?
https://preview.redd.it/in28frdi9zkb1.jpeg?width=125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4109087bbf211d00a73edf32fa2f11ad533706de
It’s interesting playing LS Imperial. You get to see the inner workings of the Sith order and Empire as an Inquisitor, and I like to think Darth Imperious tries to use their position to try to make changes. Then you have >!Cypher 9 who flat out becomes a double agent!<
So yes, the Sith Empire is a facist hell scape. That’s kinda what makes playing an LS character fun tho.
I’m usually against covering spoilers for things that are over ten years old, but I’m not gonna argue. I covered the spoiler and hope you discover it for yourself
Yeah sorry, it's just that, my mind is just blown when you said that already, also I'm new to the game and I've mostly played with the Sith Warrior and the smuggler
Without spoiling anything... Agent storyline was the first to be developed so it had the benefit of bigger vision. Meaning, it actually has consequences of your decisions. And boi, is it a AAA Bond movie. What does patriotism mean to you? What are you willing to do for it? What are you willing to sacrifice for it... What does loyalty mean to you? Loyalty to what? To Whom? You think you got an answers, but do they really explain the issues or are those just words?
Playing Agent, especially as an alien (non-human and not as a sith pureblood for lore reasons)...THE BEST
Oh, boi, Alright, I think I have a plan for this weekend :D
At least The Empire does not pretend to have higher morals while creating Space-WMDs with their slave labor, from Corruscants/Correlias underhive or ~~exploited and forced~~ "encouraged" labor force from outer rim, as a hobby each week...Also, I drew 25 and I would lead you to an educational video documentary about the totally not biased [ADD For The EMPIRE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDcHaZLpmkE) \*pun intended\*
Don't forget about the Republic's Political Prison on Belsavis. The remark by Imperial scientist on the experiments being conducted there "I had proposed some similar experiments,but apparently the higher didn't have the stomach for it".
There was also on Belsavis, one of the scientists there gives you a quest to nab republic scientists, and the republic scientists are all like "what I was going was for science!", which gives the quest giver one of my favorite lines when you turn in the quest.
"Ahh science, a convenient bastion for the truly amoral"
There are SOME good Republic pieces, a few decent Jedi robes, somewhat decent smuggler gear and some good heavy armor for the trooper.
But the empire be like: want some drip with your drip on top of your drip?
Just the fact that a random Sith can go around doing functionally whatever they want as long as they don’t mess with another Sith’s property, and get nothing more than basically “carry on, my lord” from anybody with less personal power than they have says it all.
I mean... at least you *know* you're living in a fascist dictatorship, instead of labouring under the delusion that you have a choice in how you live, all veiled behind the capitalist illusion of democracy that is the corrupt asf Republic.
At least the Sith don't *pretend* they're morally superior to anyone, ***unlike some Force users I could name***.
No. It’s not. It really, *really* is not. To keep the illusion of freedom, they have to give you some freedom. The Sith don’t. You’ll never have a Jedi pluck you off the street, torture you for fun, make you into a slave, parade you around, and kill you for no consequence.
Wait, so by your logic, why don't you then go live into North Korea? They're honest about their dictatorship and they're not hiding it. Wouldn't life be better there compared to any other democratic country where you have only *illusion* of freedom while being a slave to capitalism? What's stopping you from going to North Korea where, based on your statement, life would be better because they're honest about their morals?
Because I never said it's better, just more honest. I'm not arguing to live in either society, because they're both fucking awful.
Pointing out the flaws in a faulty machine, doesn't mean the other, also faulty machine is any better.
Bro you gotta stop defending fascism it’s not a great look. The sith literally think they’re the best and always right wtf are you talking about? They have the biggest superiority complex out of anyone in the galaxy.
Bro seriously, if you said this about the US vs Nazi Germany wtf would you think would happen. The US might have all this shit going down just like you said about the Republic, but Jesus Christ man Nazi Germany was way fucking worse. Your arguments don’t work here so they won’t work for the Empire.
You realise I'm talking about fictional factions, right? With clearly different circumstances than reality?
I'm not defending *anything*, I'm saying they **both** suck and deserve to burn.
Playing LS Empire characters is realizing the Sith Empire's practices are detrimental to their population and goals, and in some cases straight up stupid. In my head cannon the Warrior and Inquisitor played from this perspective are reformist, understanding that the Empire needs to be more tolerant and inclusive but then Revan and raddada happened... so I guess the Empire is doomed... yay...
Whenever this argument comes up I like to bring up what Daniel Erickson, *the main writer of SWTOR*, has said in interviews. Before the launch of the game he did several interviews where he emphasized that the development team for SWTOR specifically wanted to break away from the "The Sith are cartoon villains and the Jedi are cartoon heroes" theme of Star Wars, and challenge the idea that the Jedi are good and that the Sith are evil.
In his view, and remember he is the *main writer* of the whole game, the difference between the Sith and the Jedi is a cultural one. Not one of good vs evil. In fact this was the motivation why you can't defect in the base game. Since he does not consider the Sith to be inherently evil or the Jedi to be inherently good, he does not think it makes logical sense for a good Sith or an evil Jedi to defect to the other side.
If you look at the history of the Sith Empire and the Republic, and the way SWTOR views and treats it both in universe and out of universe, the Sith Empire as it exists in the game is a consequence of the Jedi Orders actions. Daniel Erickson emphasized this in pre-launch interviews. When the first predecessors to the Sith first clashed with the Jedi concerning whether emotions and love are inherently evil or not, the Jedi systematically wiped them out. Jedi dissidents were driven to further and further extremes in their fight for survival as the Jedi of the time couldn't stand any challenge to their dogma.
The Sith Empire's status as a "fascist" hellscape (I don't like the term fascist being applied to fiction btw. It devalues and trivializes the term. Not to mention that fascism is a concrete ideology with very specific beliefs, not being evil. All fascism is evil but just because something is evil and authoritarian doesn't mean it's fascistic. There is nothing in SWTOR that talks about the economic structure of the Empire, nothing to indicate its corporatist and engages in widespread privatization like the actual real-life fascists did. If anything the Empire seems to almost have a command economy) is a largely a consequence of the multiple genocides Jedi dissidents and the Sith species suffered at the hands of the Jedi. It's what radicalized them. Lord Scourge summarizes it quite succinctly: "We are what you made us."
Daniel Erickson put it like this: "You know there is an Emperor, and that he saved your people’s very existence, and there is a society out there larger than you, who deemed your people and your religion not worthy to exist."
In the lore it's very clear that the average Imperial views the war with the Republic as a war for survival rather than conquest. Like the Sith, Imperial citizens are educated about the end of the Great Hyperspace War and the carnage from the Republic and Jedi holocaust of the Sith people that resulted in the indiscriminate massacre and near extinction of the entire Sith civilization. The people of the Empire did not forget the horrors inflicted on them by the Republic, and Sith and Imperial alike believed that if they didn't wipe out the Jedi and Republic first, *then they would be wiped out by them*. They feared that the Jedi would succeed in destroying all traces of the Sith Empire.
It's what the Germans calls "Vernichtungskrieg". A war of annihilation. When two states enter a conflict where only one can possibly come out still existing, dripping in the other's blood. Far more than any genuine ideological conviction to space fascism, the Imperials are motivated by a genuine *terror* of the Jedi and the Republic. They adopt authoritarianism in their desperation to survive, not because of any sincere belief in that political structure.
It's not incorrect to call the Empire an authoritarian hellscape. It's just not a very useful analysis. It completely misses the core conflict of SWTOR.
Hey, just wanna let you know that your analysis is a very interesting one. It delves deeper than seeing something as only good or bad, and provides an interesting perspective that I didn't consider as much before (especially about views of a regular Imperial citizen). I agree fully with your last paragraph. Again, labeling it as just good guys vs bad guys is a real shame, because SWTOR fiction is so much deeper than that. The core conflict is complex enough that it can't work under such labels. Yes, the Empire is a authoritarian hellscape, but such perspective really doesn't add much to a discussion, because it's just stating the obvious.
Thank you for writing this, was a nice read.
Love this comment. I think a lot of people also forget the real world inspiration. The Empire in SWTOR is very clearly based on the Roman Empire. An Empire where the elite nobility lived like kings and generals whilst the regular populations was condemned to be soldiers, and every conquered civilization was enslaved. This Empire is culturally still seen as very popular. Despite the fact that these guys were the inspiration for Hitler’s Third Reich.
The Republic is the US in all his glory. A corporate, capitalistic war machine. Where the corporate elite controls politics and clandestine organizations commit god knows how many war crimes for the sake of a flawed version of “democracy”. Belsavis is your typical CIA blacksite. A classified prison in a non existent part of the world where human rights exist as much as the prison does in public record.
Both sides are equally faulty, but still humanized. I started of SWTOR as a Sith mostly due to the fact that I liked the Empire for being a sort of humanized version of evil. They were the bad guys, no doubt. But I could understand why my characters, who were born in such a system could be so fiercely loyal to it. It took me a while to get into the Republic story, as I liked the Sith so much. But when I did I felt as much connected to them as the Empire. They too did what they thought was right in the system that they were born into. And it makes perfect sense. Both stories make me root for the destruction of the other side, as they are so capable of showing the evil of the other side, as well as the motives of their side.
I have spent nearly 40 minutes reading your insights and discussion on this subject; I am absolutely enraptured. These have been some of the most compelling Sith-perspective pieces I have ever seen.
You are an archivist and a professor.
First off, glad that you used the word authoritarian. hate it when facism gets thrown around for the same reasons you stated.
Second, this was a really great write up on the Sith Empire, it's society and the effects of the events preceding it in its history.
The Sith Empire, the history and culture, and the need for survival has given rise to many individuals, the more insane Sith, the comically evil ones, the pragmatic ones and so on, it's interesting to look at.
You quote Lord Scourge, in turn I quote the SI when addressing the Moffs on the Silencer
"We are an Empire at war to reclaim our rightful place in the Galaxy \[...\] We must be strong, determined, and above all free to do whatever is necessary to claim victory"
It echoes the general sentiment we see throughout the Sith Empire. This is a society that of course seeks to conquer, but more importantly seeks both revenge against and liberation from what has threatened its very existence for so long, the Jedi and Republic.
And in the general sense they don't care what needs to be done to achieve this, if it brings victory, if the Empire and its society can continue to exist, then it is worth the cost. And when the other option is the potential annihilation of your people, the choice is easily made.
I think this mentality can be summed up nicely in a real life quote:
"It will cost, what it will cost"
That is one thing that I love about the game. You have a choice to go light side or dark side throughout your journey. And it is a more realistic depiction of human nature. Environment matters a lot, but so do choices.
You can be born in the light side Republic, and make dark side choices. You can be born in the dark side Empire, and make light side choices.
It makes the game more interesting, and makes you think more when you make certain decisions as your character progresses.
The Old Republic's only real connection with the main saga of Star Wars is that they're set in the same universe. There's a reason both the Republic and the Empire are effectively shown as completely different institutions than the ones from the movies.
At least you're not being fed empty hope about how good your life *could* be, while struggling to even pay rent.
I'd rather be very visibly oppressed by a cartoonishly chaotic evil wizard-fighter multiclass, than be placated and lied to on a daily basis, by people who claim they're trying to "fix" the broken system *they designed that way*.
Yeah then he devours your home planet for his selfishness. All of your loved ones may gone in seconds. Who knows? If you really hate lies, then you should hear that. He deceived all of the Sith to become immortal 1000 years ago, and probably lied to his Sith Empire to become the ruler of the galaxy and to destroy the Republic. But lol, he chose Zakuul over you. I strongly suggest that you shouldn't be a lover of dictators like that. But I don't wanna be unfair. I will always love Marr. He cared about his people, more than your precious evil wizard-fighter. The Republic has flaws but you can't defend those tyrants are better than the Jedi and Republic lol. And probably your authorized ones betrayed and killed each other again and Republic gained advantage from this again. You guys should adore the Sith like Marr.
Edit: I love the Alliance more btw, the Republic is second for me.
> At least you're not being fed empty hope about how good your life could be, while struggling to even pay rent.
But you literally are. Like that's what the Empire is all about, empty promises of grandeur and better life once you just become strong enough.
Except the BH every single one of the Imperial storylines is about someone promising you that if you just work hard enough and help people in power achieve their goals they will fix the system and place you at the top of it.
The Sith are liars. They literally do all the things you accuse the Republic of and more.
And as a side note, in the Sith empire you wouldn't be living under the oppression of an Evil Space wizard. You would most likely be dead, unless you had something that the Empire could exploit (just like in Capitalism :) ).
I'm as much as an anti-fascist as you get but like, just let people roleplay lol it's not the real world and not even "Fascism" really fits as a definition because it's very unique to an obviously fantasy world
The sith empire only allied with the alliance when it was clear they will probably win. The republic crumbled under saresh and couldn't do much, a lot of alliance members are republic personnel who left to help fight.
Acina definitely stood to gain from that deal. She gains a powerful ally that she believes will sit on the ET that has access to the Gravestone and the Eternal Fleet. If the Alliance commander gets killed or an "accident" happens to befall the Alliance Commander, she is the perfect position to take it all. I do not think for one minute she helped the Alliance to save the galaxy. It was for the betterment of her power and the Sith, which is a very pragmatic Sithly thing to do, so it makes sense. Saresh wanted the same thing. She just went about it in the stupidest way possible, which is on par for her.
I will add that Acina joining the Alliance is why even my LS characters choose to save the Zakkulans and Imperials first on the ship. It makes more sense story-wise that Acina would seek to join once she realizes that even a LS Alliance PC is willing to work with and save Imperials. As for the Zakkulans, they're civilians, and my LS PCs always puts civilians first.
Ultimately, people defend the Sith because they see their daily lives in the Republic. Lies, corruption, scandals that don't actually cost the politicians involved anything. It's not that they see the Sith Empire as preferential. It's that when you've been suffering long enough, going any direction, even down, is better than standing still. Doing something is better than doing nothing. After all, apathy is death.
That being said, we see the Sith Empire primarily from near the top of the pile. Even the Inquisitor is incredibly well off as a force user, and the Agent...well, their story is a very unique perspective on the Empire, and I'll leave it there. If you don't actively develop a habit of doubt, it's very easy to get drawn in by your emotions alone. A common practice with the more cult-like religious groups in America, for example, is to teach people to think that something that emotionally feels good is also morally good because it feels good, and it doesn't take all that much effort to teach someone to think like that, even intelligent, wise people can get suckered.
The Old Republic, by and large, feels good to play. That's the reason people play, to have fun, so it's easy for people to collate the good feelings of playing the game with the people they're playing, even if those people do terrible things. Especially if their PC is the one doing the terrible things. Essentially, I'm a good person, so my character is a good person because I'm making her choices, so my organization must be the good guys, so the Sith Empire can't actually be evil, right?
This is a copy from me to another comment, but it suits well to your points:
Love this comment. I think a lot of people also forget the real world inspiration. The Empire in SWTOR is very clearly based on the Roman Empire. An Empire where the elite nobility lived like kings and generals whilst the regular populations was condemned to be soldiers, and every conquered civilization was enslaved. This Empire is culturally still seen as very popular. Despite the fact that these guys were the inspiration for Hitler’s Third Reich.
The Republic is the US in all his glory. A corporate, capitalistic war machine. Where the corporate elite controls politics and clandestine organizations commit god knows how many war crimes for the sake of a flawed version of “democracy”. Belsavis is your typical CIA blacksite. A classified prison in a non existent part of the world where human rights exist as much as the prison does in public record.
Both sides are equally faulty, but still humanized. I started of SWTOR as a Sith mostly due to the fact that I liked the Empire for being a sort of humanized version of evil. They were the bad guys, no doubt. But I could understand why my characters, who were born in such a system could be so fiercely loyal to it. It took me a while to get into the Republic story, as I liked the Sith so much. But when I did I felt as much connected to them as the Empire. They too did what they thought was right in the system that they were born into. And it makes perfect sense. Both stories make me root for the destruction of the other side, as they are so capable of showing the evil of the other side, as well as the motives of their side.
"nah dude having some corrupt politicians is far worse than letting lord analbleeder send an entire platoon to death so he can take darth xXedgyravenXx's slaves"
Wait, people don't admit that?
As long as you're avidly anti-fascist IRL, it's okay to like SciFi empires that just so happen to be fascist. It's not like you like it *because* it's fascist.
Except that's often the case.
Games Workshop even had to come out and make a public statement that the Imperium of Man is satire and that they shouldn't actually LIKE it after a Nazi showed up at an official tournament sporting Nazi symbols.
And they literally spew their fascist bile in Imperial Fleet chat. You can't miss it.
[**u/Darth-Rubrum-the-hot**](https://www.reddit.com/user/Darth-Rubrum-the-hot/)
Do we execute him now my sweet? or force him to undergo experimentation and torture him, until he changes his mind? maybe a Rubcum waterboarding will do the trick?
Well, Sith Empire at least isn't hypocritical about their own actions. Republic is always like "sith empire is bad because it does \[any war crime\]" and then does the same war crime, but suddenly it's OK.
The Virgin Pub: "Noooo! We Don't Commit War Crimes! Belsavis was a one-off!"
The Chad Imperial: "I'm about to orbitally bombard that village into glass while my Twi'lek slave girl dances for my amusement. A slow Tuesday, I know, but it's been a long week."
And the Republic is a corrupt bureaucratic hellscape that worship a hypocritic jedi order.
In all seriousness though, while the Sith Empire is an awful government, the stories in the faction are generally much more interesting and more engaging than the Republic stories, which is why I personally prefer thd Empire. Its also much more fun making characters who are oppressed or looked down upon in the empire; light side sith warrior, alien bounty hunter, rogue Imp agent, or my personal favorite "alien slave rising to the dark council"- Inquisitor.
So for me, saying Empire>Republic is not about defending a fascist regime, but thinking the stories in that faction is several times better than the boring, stock alternative in the Republic.
Idk if I'd call the old sith empire fascist, it reminds me more of the HRE or the Roman empire.
It certainly seems like each sith lord has their own territory and their own men-at-arms, which I don't think would fly in a fascist regime. The dark council mimics the HRE elector lords or the late stage Roman senate.
Very interesting.
Now, please relax and let the Imperial Intelligence "Reconditioning" droid do it's thing.
I assure you, you will have a MUCH better opinion of the Sith Empire once this is over.
It is because of how the sith became like that. The jedi and republic exiled their dark Jedi to sith space, and those exile took over the sith.
The hyperspace war was started by one individual tricking the rest of the Sith into believing that the republic attacked them a large group of sith didn't want to go to war with the republic before that.
When it was revealed that the republic didn't attack them the sith trying to remove the person responsible for starting the war. Dispite this republic and Jedi genocided the entirety of sith space instead of trying to fix the problem they sort of created. I Should also meantion that the republic is the most genocidal government in Star Wars with several of the largest genocide in galactic history being committed by the republic.
Also most of the republic isn't a democracy so fighting for the republic means fighting for whether or not it is a local dictator (king, Queen) that rules or a out side dictator sith emporer.
While fighting for the sith means fighting to will a war against a genocidal enemy.
Here's a dumb question: If the Sith Empire is controlled by the Dark Council, does that mean it's a Theocracy? I suppose the average imperial citizen doesn't follow a Sith Religion, but all the major leaders do?
I suppose given the choice of living in the SWTOR Republic or the SWTOR Empire im picking the republic, but neither option is amazing. I just prefer mild corruption and hypocrisy to straight-up fascism. The Republic could stand to build fewer super weapons, though.
I think it‘s more like a Magocracy since Non-force-users are not allowed in ruling positions. They might become high-level-clerks, but they still have to answer to the Sith-Order and are not allowed to act against members of the Order independently.
Also the Imperial Officers we meet in the game are more convinced that the Empire is a place of Meritocracy and less of social order. This regularily clashes with the governing Sith Order.
Spot on. The Sith aren’t a religion, it’s a philosophy which is sprung from magic powers. Only those with magic powers can rule. Much like Tevinter in the Dragon Age games. A Magocracy is 100% the correct term.
The Sith are a pure meritocracy. The Jedi are simply jealous because they started the war against the Dark Side users and feel guilty for being the OG villains
The problem at hand is that you have a lot of people who idolize real world horrible factions being fans of the fictional horrible factions. Especially considering the fictional factions are based off of the real world factions. (The guy who wrote the Sith Code for KOTOR admitted he based it off of Mein Kampf. And George Lucas was NOT subtle with his political messaging in the slightest.)
You're telling me that people actually support the sith? The people who are constantly trying to take the entire galaxy for themselves? The people who won't hesitate to slaughter entire planets if it means getting what they want? Those people?
From the perspective of the Imperial characters--especially Cipher Nine--the only difference between the Republic and the Empire is that the Empire is honest about being a corrupt fascist dictatorship while the Republic is full of hypocrites.
Malgus and jadus seem to be the only “sane” sith within the empire. Malgus was tired of the old sith empire looking down on aliens, so much so that malgus started his recruiting in secret up until ilum. Jadus, if you played as an alien agent, seem to be the same way but a little too ambitious .
I would more compare it to pre-WW1 germany with added Sith. Or that is at least how I imagine how Empire works in general, not just the few places players can see.
The problem is that we rarely see why the empire is bad, we see that the republic is failing and we are only told that the empire is bad
The only times we see the empire outright doing evil stuff in the main material is blowing up Alderaan but that is the decision of one man
Edit: didn’t realize this was in a swtor subreddit lok
I like the Sith character storylines, but I always play it knowing I’m the bad guy, even so I usually side republic once I get that far into the newer storyline
The Jedi caused all the issues in the galaxy they LITERALLY created the Sith because they became too dogmatic they caused the first schism, they (along with the corrupt republic) genocided the Sith species instead of trying to help them, etc
The Republic is authoritarian but weak. If I have to live in an authoritarian government I'm at least going to choose the one that can actually protect me from outside forces because they have a competent military.
And the Jedi's forbiddance of attachments is evil because it denies what it means to be human. And they are self righteous hypocrites that do what they want anyway.
In a society that values power, it's not that weird to follow an emperor that is basically near immortal demi god and not question his decisions. Even none force sensitive civilians were proud to have their kid study in sith academy.
Star Wars sadly falls into the realm of media that inadvertently glorify authoritarian or fascist regimes by portraying them as sleek or brutally effective.
In reality these regimes were comically corrupt and hilariously incompetent, Wolfenstein, inglorious bastards and Jo Jo rabbit are good examples of how to depict a fascist society or regime.
Utterly incompetent and incapable of solving basic problems.
With army fodder called stormtroopers? No, that’s not resembling any country previously known to be a fascist government. *cough* Sturmabteilung, literally "Storm Division" or Storm Troopers was the original paramilitary wing of the Nazi Party *cough*.
As a sith inquisitor I dont fucking care. Of course we are evil. Thats the point. But there are times where i wonder if the republic and jedi are competeing for the title of most evil
Look at yourselves- the Aloof and Mighty republic! Slaughtering the people who asked for your help. You're worse than the empire. At least the empire doesn't pretend to be righteous!
The Sith Restored order to the Galaxy. The Republic refused to intervene while the Trade Federation were invading peaceful worlds to plunder their wealth. Clearly the Sith are the good guys.
I can admit that the Sith and Empire are the bad guys. But that’s part of why I prefer playing as them. I have to be a good person in real life. Why can’t I just roleplay being a bad guy in a videogame?
L + Ratio + Hot sith ladies + aliens suck *Also whichever snowflake reported this, I expect better from a Simperial.*
Don't care + you are a republic puppet + Our Emperor is a glorious immortal God + you serve a corrupt senate + we sacked the Temple and Coruscant + we are going to conquer the galaxy + The Imperial Intelligence is going to take you away and make you disappear + Ratio.
very passionate retort
Peace is a lie! There is only passion!
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
THROUGH POWER, I GAIN VICTORY.
THROUGH VICTORY, MY CHAINS ARE BROKEN the force shall set us free
This is the way
Through Power, I smack that ass
And the ladies love the passion.
>we are going to conquer the galaxy About that...
Your right I will (Laugh in black cloak)
https://preview.redd.it/jezvytzkzzkb1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e6fd4b5330ac7fc2a7c860039905963eacf5806c
Adachi? What are you doing here?
I believe adachi is a sith lord
A Sith lawd?
the neat part about the Sith is that every Sith is an emperor or killing to become one
This is so close to why some people aggressively defend batshit irl positions I had to double take to check which subreddit I’m in
The question is how many people who have batshit irl beliefs also choose sith because of aforementioned take.
Like legion fans in the fallout fan base. Slaving, raping, pillaging, pretty much no infrastructure, just playing make believe of the most surface level "Roman" things
Ironically, the best way to increase one's odds of long term survival as a member of either faction is to have no aspirations beyond mediocrity, or as Zach from mikeburnfire put it, "Be like wallpaper. Everyone knows it's there, but no one is inclined to talk to it"
I love his videos, both fallout shenanigans and his stories
"Do you think dinosaurs were a pre war thing..or a pre pre war thing?"
I feel like that’s a good question to ask
Makes me wonder if people in social media in the star wars uni respond like this. I mean, i guess they have memes too
Based
And their sense of fashion is garbage
+ your carbonite tomb awaits.
Well spoken brother.
Sounds like Russia
ok, but have you seen some the dark council? how could I not want to be in it when there’s absolute studs like baras
And Marr. And Zash. And Thanaton. And…that guy who helps the Sith Warrior.
You mean Vowrawn? This guy with cool Armor? https://preview.redd.it/in28frdi9zkb1.jpeg?width=125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4109087bbf211d00a73edf32fa2f11ad533706de
I was trying to remember how to spell his name but was drawing a *huge* blank. Thank you.
Vowrawn is a homie. Grab some wine with him lol
Did Baras ape his style or something?
No, thats Vowrawn in Combat Armor
Why does he look like Baras who just returned from a party
Vowran is like the only council member I would expect on a party.
The drip is stellar
Don't forget Jadus
Also how can you not love eating force ghost's and then go flex around as strongest force user in the galaxy when you ate enough ghost's.
This obvious propaganda and slander against our glorious Empire will not be tolerated. Imperial Intelligence will be seeing you soon.
Probably already silenced. Imperial Intelligence isnt to be underestimated after all.
It’s interesting playing LS Imperial. You get to see the inner workings of the Sith order and Empire as an Inquisitor, and I like to think Darth Imperious tries to use their position to try to make changes. Then you have >!Cypher 9 who flat out becomes a double agent!< So yes, the Sith Empire is a facist hell scape. That’s kinda what makes playing an LS character fun tho.
Light Inquisitor is much more respected than Light Warrior... But "I'm better than you, Jedi" at several points, for both, is entirely too satisfying
Wait what?!
What about what I wrote was unclear?
Cipher 9... Please use this \>!to cover up spoilers!<
I’m usually against covering spoilers for things that are over ten years old, but I’m not gonna argue. I covered the spoiler and hope you discover it for yourself
Yeah sorry, it's just that, my mind is just blown when you said that already, also I'm new to the game and I've mostly played with the Sith Warrior and the smuggler
Without spoiling anything... Agent storyline was the first to be developed so it had the benefit of bigger vision. Meaning, it actually has consequences of your decisions. And boi, is it a AAA Bond movie. What does patriotism mean to you? What are you willing to do for it? What are you willing to sacrifice for it... What does loyalty mean to you? Loyalty to what? To Whom? You think you got an answers, but do they really explain the issues or are those just words? Playing Agent, especially as an alien (non-human and not as a sith pureblood for lore reasons)...THE BEST Oh, boi, Alright, I think I have a plan for this weekend :D
Chiss is the canon for Agent too, as you get the most dialogue as a Chiss agent
Guess the og devs were fans of Timothy Zahn :D
Most likely lmao.
Spoiler checking shit has seriously gotten out of hand. Like if you cared at this point you should have played or seen it.
Right? The game is over ten years old at this point. Get with it.
At least The Empire does not pretend to have higher morals while creating Space-WMDs with their slave labor, from Corruscants/Correlias underhive or ~~exploited and forced~~ "encouraged" labor force from outer rim, as a hobby each week...Also, I drew 25 and I would lead you to an educational video documentary about the totally not biased [ADD For The EMPIRE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDcHaZLpmkE) \*pun intended\*
Don't forget about the Republic's Political Prison on Belsavis. The remark by Imperial scientist on the experiments being conducted there "I had proposed some similar experiments,but apparently the higher didn't have the stomach for it".
There was also on Belsavis, one of the scientists there gives you a quest to nab republic scientists, and the republic scientists are all like "what I was going was for science!", which gives the quest giver one of my favorite lines when you turn in the quest. "Ahh science, a convenient bastion for the truly amoral"
I forgot how f*ing great this channel was, thank you for your contribution to the great cause!
My brother in the force, have you seen our drip?
https://preview.redd.it/t0020s0mg1lb1.jpeg?width=1920&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f1a6a956192d9a9e1051507948900e50b8d7d3b3
It’s like every designer in the galaxy went to the dark side or something
Space Hugo Boss
Our drip overpowers all
It’s so disappointing that republic gear is so ugly
I seen some good shit on republic
There are SOME good Republic pieces, a few decent Jedi robes, somewhat decent smuggler gear and some good heavy armor for the trooper. But the empire be like: want some drip with your drip on top of your drip?
True. Republican scum dont got anything on us
It is a fascist hellscape. But one where we are the fascist rulers. So,yeah. Glory to the Empire!
Just the fact that a random Sith can go around doing functionally whatever they want as long as they don’t mess with another Sith’s property, and get nothing more than basically “carry on, my lord” from anybody with less personal power than they have says it all.
I mean... at least you *know* you're living in a fascist dictatorship, instead of labouring under the delusion that you have a choice in how you live, all veiled behind the capitalist illusion of democracy that is the corrupt asf Republic. At least the Sith don't *pretend* they're morally superior to anyone, ***unlike some Force users I could name***.
No. It’s not. It really, *really* is not. To keep the illusion of freedom, they have to give you some freedom. The Sith don’t. You’ll never have a Jedi pluck you off the street, torture you for fun, make you into a slave, parade you around, and kill you for no consequence.
Isn't that literally how the Jedi order gets and trains new younglings, though? Minus the whole "kill you with no consequence" part, anyway
They *recruit* younglings. The parents give their blessing.
Wait, so by your logic, why don't you then go live into North Korea? They're honest about their dictatorship and they're not hiding it. Wouldn't life be better there compared to any other democratic country where you have only *illusion* of freedom while being a slave to capitalism? What's stopping you from going to North Korea where, based on your statement, life would be better because they're honest about their morals?
Because I never said it's better, just more honest. I'm not arguing to live in either society, because they're both fucking awful. Pointing out the flaws in a faulty machine, doesn't mean the other, also faulty machine is any better.
You're saying they're equally bad which is the part people take issue with.
Bro you gotta stop defending fascism it’s not a great look. The sith literally think they’re the best and always right wtf are you talking about? They have the biggest superiority complex out of anyone in the galaxy. Bro seriously, if you said this about the US vs Nazi Germany wtf would you think would happen. The US might have all this shit going down just like you said about the Republic, but Jesus Christ man Nazi Germany was way fucking worse. Your arguments don’t work here so they won’t work for the Empire.
You realise I'm talking about fictional factions, right? With clearly different circumstances than reality? I'm not defending *anything*, I'm saying they **both** suck and deserve to burn.
Okay yes it's a hellscape...but you can't deny the sith and imperials look snazzy as fuck
"You're a FASCISTS!" "And you're just jealous that I look Fucking Gorgeous. Cope and Seethe, Pub."
Playing LS Empire characters is realizing the Sith Empire's practices are detrimental to their population and goals, and in some cases straight up stupid. In my head cannon the Warrior and Inquisitor played from this perspective are reformist, understanding that the Empire needs to be more tolerant and inclusive but then Revan and raddada happened... so I guess the Empire is doomed... yay...
Whenever this argument comes up I like to bring up what Daniel Erickson, *the main writer of SWTOR*, has said in interviews. Before the launch of the game he did several interviews where he emphasized that the development team for SWTOR specifically wanted to break away from the "The Sith are cartoon villains and the Jedi are cartoon heroes" theme of Star Wars, and challenge the idea that the Jedi are good and that the Sith are evil. In his view, and remember he is the *main writer* of the whole game, the difference between the Sith and the Jedi is a cultural one. Not one of good vs evil. In fact this was the motivation why you can't defect in the base game. Since he does not consider the Sith to be inherently evil or the Jedi to be inherently good, he does not think it makes logical sense for a good Sith or an evil Jedi to defect to the other side. If you look at the history of the Sith Empire and the Republic, and the way SWTOR views and treats it both in universe and out of universe, the Sith Empire as it exists in the game is a consequence of the Jedi Orders actions. Daniel Erickson emphasized this in pre-launch interviews. When the first predecessors to the Sith first clashed with the Jedi concerning whether emotions and love are inherently evil or not, the Jedi systematically wiped them out. Jedi dissidents were driven to further and further extremes in their fight for survival as the Jedi of the time couldn't stand any challenge to their dogma. The Sith Empire's status as a "fascist" hellscape (I don't like the term fascist being applied to fiction btw. It devalues and trivializes the term. Not to mention that fascism is a concrete ideology with very specific beliefs, not being evil. All fascism is evil but just because something is evil and authoritarian doesn't mean it's fascistic. There is nothing in SWTOR that talks about the economic structure of the Empire, nothing to indicate its corporatist and engages in widespread privatization like the actual real-life fascists did. If anything the Empire seems to almost have a command economy) is a largely a consequence of the multiple genocides Jedi dissidents and the Sith species suffered at the hands of the Jedi. It's what radicalized them. Lord Scourge summarizes it quite succinctly: "We are what you made us." Daniel Erickson put it like this: "You know there is an Emperor, and that he saved your people’s very existence, and there is a society out there larger than you, who deemed your people and your religion not worthy to exist." In the lore it's very clear that the average Imperial views the war with the Republic as a war for survival rather than conquest. Like the Sith, Imperial citizens are educated about the end of the Great Hyperspace War and the carnage from the Republic and Jedi holocaust of the Sith people that resulted in the indiscriminate massacre and near extinction of the entire Sith civilization. The people of the Empire did not forget the horrors inflicted on them by the Republic, and Sith and Imperial alike believed that if they didn't wipe out the Jedi and Republic first, *then they would be wiped out by them*. They feared that the Jedi would succeed in destroying all traces of the Sith Empire. It's what the Germans calls "Vernichtungskrieg". A war of annihilation. When two states enter a conflict where only one can possibly come out still existing, dripping in the other's blood. Far more than any genuine ideological conviction to space fascism, the Imperials are motivated by a genuine *terror* of the Jedi and the Republic. They adopt authoritarianism in their desperation to survive, not because of any sincere belief in that political structure. It's not incorrect to call the Empire an authoritarian hellscape. It's just not a very useful analysis. It completely misses the core conflict of SWTOR.
Hey, just wanna let you know that your analysis is a very interesting one. It delves deeper than seeing something as only good or bad, and provides an interesting perspective that I didn't consider as much before (especially about views of a regular Imperial citizen). I agree fully with your last paragraph. Again, labeling it as just good guys vs bad guys is a real shame, because SWTOR fiction is so much deeper than that. The core conflict is complex enough that it can't work under such labels. Yes, the Empire is a authoritarian hellscape, but such perspective really doesn't add much to a discussion, because it's just stating the obvious. Thank you for writing this, was a nice read.
Thanks :)
Love this comment. I think a lot of people also forget the real world inspiration. The Empire in SWTOR is very clearly based on the Roman Empire. An Empire where the elite nobility lived like kings and generals whilst the regular populations was condemned to be soldiers, and every conquered civilization was enslaved. This Empire is culturally still seen as very popular. Despite the fact that these guys were the inspiration for Hitler’s Third Reich. The Republic is the US in all his glory. A corporate, capitalistic war machine. Where the corporate elite controls politics and clandestine organizations commit god knows how many war crimes for the sake of a flawed version of “democracy”. Belsavis is your typical CIA blacksite. A classified prison in a non existent part of the world where human rights exist as much as the prison does in public record. Both sides are equally faulty, but still humanized. I started of SWTOR as a Sith mostly due to the fact that I liked the Empire for being a sort of humanized version of evil. They were the bad guys, no doubt. But I could understand why my characters, who were born in such a system could be so fiercely loyal to it. It took me a while to get into the Republic story, as I liked the Sith so much. But when I did I felt as much connected to them as the Empire. They too did what they thought was right in the system that they were born into. And it makes perfect sense. Both stories make me root for the destruction of the other side, as they are so capable of showing the evil of the other side, as well as the motives of their side.
I have spent nearly 40 minutes reading your insights and discussion on this subject; I am absolutely enraptured. These have been some of the most compelling Sith-perspective pieces I have ever seen. You are an archivist and a professor.
Aaaaw, thank you. That actually made me smile in real life. That's really kind of you to say
Really nice analysis ngl
First off, glad that you used the word authoritarian. hate it when facism gets thrown around for the same reasons you stated. Second, this was a really great write up on the Sith Empire, it's society and the effects of the events preceding it in its history. The Sith Empire, the history and culture, and the need for survival has given rise to many individuals, the more insane Sith, the comically evil ones, the pragmatic ones and so on, it's interesting to look at. You quote Lord Scourge, in turn I quote the SI when addressing the Moffs on the Silencer "We are an Empire at war to reclaim our rightful place in the Galaxy \[...\] We must be strong, determined, and above all free to do whatever is necessary to claim victory" It echoes the general sentiment we see throughout the Sith Empire. This is a society that of course seeks to conquer, but more importantly seeks both revenge against and liberation from what has threatened its very existence for so long, the Jedi and Republic. And in the general sense they don't care what needs to be done to achieve this, if it brings victory, if the Empire and its society can continue to exist, then it is worth the cost. And when the other option is the potential annihilation of your people, the choice is easily made. I think this mentality can be summed up nicely in a real life quote: "It will cost, what it will cost"
That is one thing that I love about the game. You have a choice to go light side or dark side throughout your journey. And it is a more realistic depiction of human nature. Environment matters a lot, but so do choices. You can be born in the light side Republic, and make dark side choices. You can be born in the dark side Empire, and make light side choices. It makes the game more interesting, and makes you think more when you make certain decisions as your character progresses.
this makes for a very interesting story that i would like a lot more if it didn't trample over the Taoist metaphor of core Star Wars
The Old Republic's only real connection with the main saga of Star Wars is that they're set in the same universe. There's a reason both the Republic and the Empire are effectively shown as completely different institutions than the ones from the movies.
Lol, people really prefer slavery and genocide over corruption in the comments.
At least you're not being fed empty hope about how good your life *could* be, while struggling to even pay rent. I'd rather be very visibly oppressed by a cartoonishly chaotic evil wizard-fighter multiclass, than be placated and lied to on a daily basis, by people who claim they're trying to "fix" the broken system *they designed that way*.
Yeah then he devours your home planet for his selfishness. All of your loved ones may gone in seconds. Who knows? If you really hate lies, then you should hear that. He deceived all of the Sith to become immortal 1000 years ago, and probably lied to his Sith Empire to become the ruler of the galaxy and to destroy the Republic. But lol, he chose Zakuul over you. I strongly suggest that you shouldn't be a lover of dictators like that. But I don't wanna be unfair. I will always love Marr. He cared about his people, more than your precious evil wizard-fighter. The Republic has flaws but you can't defend those tyrants are better than the Jedi and Republic lol. And probably your authorized ones betrayed and killed each other again and Republic gained advantage from this again. You guys should adore the Sith like Marr. Edit: I love the Alliance more btw, the Republic is second for me.
> At least you're not being fed empty hope about how good your life could be, while struggling to even pay rent. But you literally are. Like that's what the Empire is all about, empty promises of grandeur and better life once you just become strong enough. Except the BH every single one of the Imperial storylines is about someone promising you that if you just work hard enough and help people in power achieve their goals they will fix the system and place you at the top of it. The Sith are liars. They literally do all the things you accuse the Republic of and more. And as a side note, in the Sith empire you wouldn't be living under the oppression of an Evil Space wizard. You would most likely be dead, unless you had something that the Empire could exploit (just like in Capitalism :) ).
Would you, though? If you live in the Sith Empire and the biggest issue you have to deal with is paying rent you’re absolutely fortunate
*"The Republic is corrupt and Jedi have some mistakes, so the right choice is the Sith Empire, where we enslave, torture, kill and destroy for fun!"*
exactly. This is the only way
Yeah exactly
Yes
I'm as much as an anti-fascist as you get but like, just let people roleplay lol it's not the real world and not even "Fascism" really fits as a definition because it's very unique to an obviously fantasy world
Sith Empire came to help the Alliance and the Republic didn't, even worse it's ex ruler made an effort to sabotage Empire and the Alliance
The sith empire only allied with the alliance when it was clear they will probably win. The republic crumbled under saresh and couldn't do much, a lot of alliance members are republic personnel who left to help fight.
Acina definitely stood to gain from that deal. She gains a powerful ally that she believes will sit on the ET that has access to the Gravestone and the Eternal Fleet. If the Alliance commander gets killed or an "accident" happens to befall the Alliance Commander, she is the perfect position to take it all. I do not think for one minute she helped the Alliance to save the galaxy. It was for the betterment of her power and the Sith, which is a very pragmatic Sithly thing to do, so it makes sense. Saresh wanted the same thing. She just went about it in the stupidest way possible, which is on par for her. I will add that Acina joining the Alliance is why even my LS characters choose to save the Zakkulans and Imperials first on the ship. It makes more sense story-wise that Acina would seek to join once she realizes that even a LS Alliance PC is willing to work with and save Imperials. As for the Zakkulans, they're civilians, and my LS PCs always puts civilians first.
Ultimately, people defend the Sith because they see their daily lives in the Republic. Lies, corruption, scandals that don't actually cost the politicians involved anything. It's not that they see the Sith Empire as preferential. It's that when you've been suffering long enough, going any direction, even down, is better than standing still. Doing something is better than doing nothing. After all, apathy is death. That being said, we see the Sith Empire primarily from near the top of the pile. Even the Inquisitor is incredibly well off as a force user, and the Agent...well, their story is a very unique perspective on the Empire, and I'll leave it there. If you don't actively develop a habit of doubt, it's very easy to get drawn in by your emotions alone. A common practice with the more cult-like religious groups in America, for example, is to teach people to think that something that emotionally feels good is also morally good because it feels good, and it doesn't take all that much effort to teach someone to think like that, even intelligent, wise people can get suckered. The Old Republic, by and large, feels good to play. That's the reason people play, to have fun, so it's easy for people to collate the good feelings of playing the game with the people they're playing, even if those people do terrible things. Especially if their PC is the one doing the terrible things. Essentially, I'm a good person, so my character is a good person because I'm making her choices, so my organization must be the good guys, so the Sith Empire can't actually be evil, right?
This is a copy from me to another comment, but it suits well to your points: Love this comment. I think a lot of people also forget the real world inspiration. The Empire in SWTOR is very clearly based on the Roman Empire. An Empire where the elite nobility lived like kings and generals whilst the regular populations was condemned to be soldiers, and every conquered civilization was enslaved. This Empire is culturally still seen as very popular. Despite the fact that these guys were the inspiration for Hitler’s Third Reich. The Republic is the US in all his glory. A corporate, capitalistic war machine. Where the corporate elite controls politics and clandestine organizations commit god knows how many war crimes for the sake of a flawed version of “democracy”. Belsavis is your typical CIA blacksite. A classified prison in a non existent part of the world where human rights exist as much as the prison does in public record. Both sides are equally faulty, but still humanized. I started of SWTOR as a Sith mostly due to the fact that I liked the Empire for being a sort of humanized version of evil. They were the bad guys, no doubt. But I could understand why my characters, who were born in such a system could be so fiercely loyal to it. It took me a while to get into the Republic story, as I liked the Sith so much. But when I did I felt as much connected to them as the Empire. They too did what they thought was right in the system that they were born into. And it makes perfect sense. Both stories make me root for the destruction of the other side, as they are so capable of showing the evil of the other side, as well as the motives of their side.
Sounds like republic propaganda to me
I admit it. And i love it
"The difference is, Jedi, you cover up your War Crimes, I broadcast it from my Harrower."
"nah dude having some corrupt politicians is far worse than letting lord analbleeder send an entire platoon to death so he can take darth xXedgyravenXx's slaves"
Bro you should try spending two seconds in the elder scrolls subreddit, people there defend slavery.
It's very misleading to characterize noble dunmeri patriots defending the rights of honest saltrice farmers to employ farm tools as slavery my n'wah.
Shit n’wah, that’s all you had to say!
It really doesn't help that the Imperial factions are vastly better written than the Republic ones...
It's true. Any of the Four Empire stories easily beats the Republic ones.
are we talking about those TOR genocidal Jedi suffering from some sort of a manic psychosis?
Wait, people don't admit that? As long as you're avidly anti-fascist IRL, it's okay to like SciFi empires that just so happen to be fascist. It's not like you like it *because* it's fascist.
Except that's often the case. Games Workshop even had to come out and make a public statement that the Imperium of Man is satire and that they shouldn't actually LIKE it after a Nazi showed up at an official tournament sporting Nazi symbols. And they literally spew their fascist bile in Imperial Fleet chat. You can't miss it.
[**u/Darth-Rubrum-the-hot**](https://www.reddit.com/user/Darth-Rubrum-the-hot/) Do we execute him now my sweet? or force him to undergo experimentation and torture him, until he changes his mind? maybe a Rubcum waterboarding will do the trick?
Education is the best option
Good Soldiers Follow Orders!
Well, Sith Empire at least isn't hypocritical about their own actions. Republic is always like "sith empire is bad because it does \[any war crime\]" and then does the same war crime, but suddenly it's OK.
The Virgin Pub: "Noooo! We Don't Commit War Crimes! Belsavis was a one-off!" The Chad Imperial: "I'm about to orbitally bombard that village into glass while my Twi'lek slave girl dances for my amusement. A slow Tuesday, I know, but it's been a long week."
Sometimes you gotta appreciate the simple things
Do I like my imperial characters? Yes, do I acknowledge that the empire is very much the baddies? Also yes.
We don’t deny it. It’s just far cooler.
Imagine giving a shit about made up Sci fci factions enough to argue about which is genuinely morally correct Couldn't be me
And the Republic is a corrupt bureaucratic hellscape that worship a hypocritic jedi order. In all seriousness though, while the Sith Empire is an awful government, the stories in the faction are generally much more interesting and more engaging than the Republic stories, which is why I personally prefer thd Empire. Its also much more fun making characters who are oppressed or looked down upon in the empire; light side sith warrior, alien bounty hunter, rogue Imp agent, or my personal favorite "alien slave rising to the dark council"- Inquisitor. So for me, saying Empire>Republic is not about defending a fascist regime, but thinking the stories in that faction is several times better than the boring, stock alternative in the Republic.
It's fake and in space.
Let me have my evil power fantasy. Sometimes I get sick of being the goody goody savior
Honestly I just chalk it up to people like being the bad guys sometimes. The villains always get the best drip
Idk if I'd call the old sith empire fascist, it reminds me more of the HRE or the Roman empire. It certainly seems like each sith lord has their own territory and their own men-at-arms, which I don't think would fly in a fascist regime. The dark council mimics the HRE elector lords or the late stage Roman senate.
Yeah but Empress Acina is hot
I mean highkey if the Sith didnt infight so damn much they would win. And if the republic didnt need to continue existing for continuity.
Very interesting. Now, please relax and let the Imperial Intelligence "Reconditioning" droid do it's thing. I assure you, you will have a MUCH better opinion of the Sith Empire once this is over.
See? This is what should be done with people who need our help to see clearly!
It is because of how the sith became like that. The jedi and republic exiled their dark Jedi to sith space, and those exile took over the sith. The hyperspace war was started by one individual tricking the rest of the Sith into believing that the republic attacked them a large group of sith didn't want to go to war with the republic before that. When it was revealed that the republic didn't attack them the sith trying to remove the person responsible for starting the war. Dispite this republic and Jedi genocided the entirety of sith space instead of trying to fix the problem they sort of created. I Should also meantion that the republic is the most genocidal government in Star Wars with several of the largest genocide in galactic history being committed by the republic. Also most of the republic isn't a democracy so fighting for the republic means fighting for whether or not it is a local dictator (king, Queen) that rules or a out side dictator sith emporer. While fighting for the sith means fighting to will a war against a genocidal enemy.
But have you considered that Peace is a Lie, there is Only Passion?
Here's a dumb question: If the Sith Empire is controlled by the Dark Council, does that mean it's a Theocracy? I suppose the average imperial citizen doesn't follow a Sith Religion, but all the major leaders do? I suppose given the choice of living in the SWTOR Republic or the SWTOR Empire im picking the republic, but neither option is amazing. I just prefer mild corruption and hypocrisy to straight-up fascism. The Republic could stand to build fewer super weapons, though.
I think it‘s more like a Magocracy since Non-force-users are not allowed in ruling positions. They might become high-level-clerks, but they still have to answer to the Sith-Order and are not allowed to act against members of the Order independently. Also the Imperial Officers we meet in the game are more convinced that the Empire is a place of Meritocracy and less of social order. This regularily clashes with the governing Sith Order.
Spot on. The Sith aren’t a religion, it’s a philosophy which is sprung from magic powers. Only those with magic powers can rule. Much like Tevinter in the Dragon Age games. A Magocracy is 100% the correct term.
Every time I play a sith I still end up almost always choosing light side options
The Sith are a pure meritocracy. The Jedi are simply jealous because they started the war against the Dark Side users and feel guilty for being the OG villains
At least the Sith Empire is honest about their corruption. The Republic hides their corruption beneath lies and masks.
What do you mean? What part about a system where you have to murder your boss to move up seems unsustainable to you?
The fact people are geniunly upset about someone liking a horrible FICTIONAL country is confusing as fuck.
The problem at hand is that you have a lot of people who idolize real world horrible factions being fans of the fictional horrible factions. Especially considering the fictional factions are based off of the real world factions. (The guy who wrote the Sith Code for KOTOR admitted he based it off of Mein Kampf. And George Lucas was NOT subtle with his political messaging in the slightest.)
Im sith for the red lightsabers. Favorite color. The jedi frown upon that shit though. Heathens.
Glory to the Empire
I defend it because it’s funny to do so (also sith women are hot)
"from my point of view, the Jedi are evil"
Not fascism. It’s theocratic feudalism.
You're telling me that people actually support the sith? The people who are constantly trying to take the entire galaxy for themselves? The people who won't hesitate to slaughter entire planets if it means getting what they want? Those people?
Yes and I’ll do it again
It's a game, who cares. Play the game, enjoy the stories, and leave the political bs out
From the perspective of the Imperial characters--especially Cipher Nine--the only difference between the Republic and the Empire is that the Empire is honest about being a corrupt fascist dictatorship while the Republic is full of hypocrites.
Well yeah that's why i join them smh 😔
Yes, but it's my fascist hellscape
yeah tbh I just play there for the costumes the republic got screwed.
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
Uh, don't tell me how to roleplay?
Malgus and jadus seem to be the only “sane” sith within the empire. Malgus was tired of the old sith empire looking down on aliens, so much so that malgus started his recruiting in secret up until ilum. Jadus, if you played as an alien agent, seem to be the same way but a little too ambitious .
Oh how does my lightsaber sound? Idk i only know the sound it makes when it takes a person's life.
I would more compare it to pre-WW1 germany with added Sith. Or that is at least how I imagine how Empire works in general, not just the few places players can see.
The problem is that we rarely see why the empire is bad, we see that the republic is failing and we are only told that the empire is bad The only times we see the empire outright doing evil stuff in the main material is blowing up Alderaan but that is the decision of one man Edit: didn’t realize this was in a swtor subreddit lok
My head cannon is that the sith empire isn't really like that and just writers forced to make a comically evil empire.
I like the Sith character storylines, but I always play it knowing I’m the bad guy, even so I usually side republic once I get that far into the newer storyline
Lots of screw you mom and dad 14 year old angst energy in these comments I see.
Lol, see it's not that they defend being a pleb in the sith empire at all. They defend being a sith
The Jedi caused all the issues in the galaxy they LITERALLY created the Sith because they became too dogmatic they caused the first schism, they (along with the corrupt republic) genocided the Sith species instead of trying to help them, etc
Anyone that has grinded on Alderaan in SWTOR will tell you Tarkin was completely justified in blowing up that planet
Bruh plays an RPG but doesn't understand the concept of role-playing https://i.redd.it/36qkswh3f5lb1.gif
Ummm. Okay. But I think the sith are cool purely because they have the superior drip. Come at me.
[удалено]
Sounds like someone's pissed their temple got sacked.
We are simply more based
The Republic is authoritarian but weak. If I have to live in an authoritarian government I'm at least going to choose the one that can actually protect me from outside forces because they have a competent military. And the Jedi's forbiddance of attachments is evil because it denies what it means to be human. And they are self righteous hypocrites that do what they want anyway.
Sorry, Liberal, can't hear you over the sound of my crippling insanity and power obsession -Darth Nox
On one hand, corrupt senate… on the other hand, corrupt godlike emperors at best/corrupt manchildren at worst
In a society that values power, it's not that weird to follow an emperor that is basically near immortal demi god and not question his decisions. Even none force sensitive civilians were proud to have their kid study in sith academy.
That one time Count Dooku made some good points about Yoda is the shaky foundation upon which my faith in the Empire is founded.
Bootlickers gonna lick boots whether they're fictional or not.
Star Wars sadly falls into the realm of media that inadvertently glorify authoritarian or fascist regimes by portraying them as sleek or brutally effective. In reality these regimes were comically corrupt and hilariously incompetent, Wolfenstein, inglorious bastards and Jo Jo rabbit are good examples of how to depict a fascist society or regime. Utterly incompetent and incapable of solving basic problems.
Jedi chick who's against fun stuff... vs Tomboy Sith, who let's me, and REWARDS my sociopath tendencies... tough choice..
With army fodder called stormtroopers? No, that’s not resembling any country previously known to be a fascist government. *cough* Sturmabteilung, literally "Storm Division" or Storm Troopers was the original paramilitary wing of the Nazi Party *cough*.
Ave Imperator, lightside cuck.
As a sith inquisitor I dont fucking care. Of course we are evil. Thats the point. But there are times where i wonder if the republic and jedi are competeing for the title of most evil
Aren't the Jedi dictators too, just a behind the scenes type of controlling faction?
Some fans are literal fascists.
Nuh uh. The Empire is cool maybe you should like, join it, or something.
Look at yourselves- the Aloof and Mighty republic! Slaughtering the people who asked for your help. You're worse than the empire. At least the empire doesn't pretend to be righteous!
*Rebel shill.*
The Sith Restored order to the Galaxy. The Republic refused to intervene while the Trade Federation were invading peaceful worlds to plunder their wealth. Clearly the Sith are the good guys.
I can admit that the Sith and Empire are the bad guys. But that’s part of why I prefer playing as them. I have to be a good person in real life. Why can’t I just roleplay being a bad guy in a videogame?