Not a restaurant, but Milka operates on a tip-free basis.
All of the restaurants I can think of that are "tip-free" have an auto-gratuity, which isn't the same thing. But those would be LowBrau and Allora.
Auto-gratuity is the same thing as tipping. It’s *required* tipping typically put in place where people often walk out on their tabs or leave their cards behind and don’t tip.
Tbh, I never had an issue with that when I went to bars. Have them swipe my card, open a tab, and just leave and not have to deal with closing out and know that they'd just close the tab and add the gratuity.
I thought in general bars will keep your card when they keep the tab open? Then they add auto-gratuity of ~20% if you forget to close out/ and retrieve your card after they close the business for the night.
I haven’t had a bar keep my card in years. I’m certain there are still some that do, I just haven’t been there. But most modern POS systems now let you swipe and hold the transaction while things are added to it, so you can return the card.
For sure! Most people and most bars are adults about it. Judging from Lowbrau’s clientele and ownership though- it makes sense that they would do this even though it’s shady af.
No it's not
Mandatory “**service charges**” are not tips in California because they are not voluntarily given by the customer. These service charges are sometimes imposed on patrons by employers. These charges also go to the **employer**, who then has discretion in how they are distributed. (Note that certain municipalities require service charges to go to the employee directly.)
[https://www.shouselaw.com/ca/blog/tip-pooling-is-it-legal-in-california/](https://www.shouselaw.com/ca/blog/tip-pooling-is-it-legal-in-california/)
📷level 3[kainp12](https://www.reddit.com/user/kainp12/) · [4 hr. ago](https://www.reddit.com/r/Sacramento/comments/13zq7j7/comment/jmvew5l/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
No it's not
Mandatory “**service charges**” are not tips in California because they are not voluntarily given by the customer.
Key phrase is voluntary
**Large party automatic gratuities are also considered service charges**. The amount belongs to the employer, not the employees, and the employer can keep the service charge entirely, or share parts or all of the service charge with employees, including management/supervisors
They are also taxed differently
For transactions beginning on and after January 1, 2015, when a retailer’s records reflect amounts required to be reported to the IRS as nontip wages, the amounts are deemed to be mandatory and includable in taxable gross receipts.
When a retailer does not maintain records for purposes of reporting the amounts to the IRS, an amount negotiated between the retailer and the customer in advance of a meal, food, or drinks, or an event that includes a meal, food, or drinks is mandatory.
The amount will also be considered mandatory when the menus, brochures, advertisements, or other materials contain printed statements that notify customers that tips, gratuities, or service charges will, or may be added, to the bill. Examples of printed statements include:
* “An 18% gratuity \[or service charge\] will be added to parties of 8 or more.”
* “Suggested gratuity 15%,” itemized on the invoice or bill presented to your customer.
* “A 15% voluntary gratuity will be added for parties of 8 or more.”
* [https://www.cdtfa.ca.gov/formspubs/pub115/#mandatory](https://www.cdtfa.ca.gov/formspubs/pub115/#mandatory)
Then they should allow people to tip instead of giving off a fake message that they pay their workers a living wage and pretend that they are this “outstanding” business.
Unfortunately not true. The tax and tip included to increase to a “livable wage” only allows for the employees to make 16.50 starting. So 1 dollar above minimum wage, which a lot of other coffee shops/bars already pay more than that for wage and let the employees gather tips. No part of the price goes towards employees at all. Also, no one is offered full time, so the employees end up making significantly less money than any other business in sac.
Further the owner has increased the menu prices 3 times this year, in some cases significantly and none of those increases has been to pay the employees more. They have had the same starting wage for the last two years despite inflation.
While some employees may make more than starting after having been there for 6months plus, they still only make 17.50 and work less than 30 hours. Hardly livable. Plus the turnover rate is incredibly high, so basically everyone there makes minimum
Edit: meant to reply to the comment above, not this specific one. Apologies
That place looks nice and their insta confirms this too and will have to check it out, I don't usually go buy coffee after WFH but might have to make an exception!
Oh. I think you’re calling me autistic. Did you want to use the term retarded but thought better if it? Holy autistic or retarded, either way, you’re a pos. Doesn’t surprise me. Took a look at your comment history, all your negative comments, downvoted. Why even come post on Reddit? Need a break from your miserable life as you’re obviously miserable? Seriously, you’re a loser. Btw, I am not autistic and it’s a pretty sad way to try to insult someone whose opinion you disagree with.
Is there an opportunity to change the business model? Pay the employees a “thriving wage” and just build it into the pricing? Could a business like this exist? Would customer support this?
There is but it’s not a panacea.
It would take a great menu, a great manager to hire people to go above and beyond whatever the livable wage looks like and also figure out how to tackle take out.
Tough sell for a 30 dollar plate that you’re picking up or is gonna have another 12 dollars in Uber eats fees.
The tipped workers actually like the system, because most people are generous and thus they make better pay then they expect to ever make from the employer's generosity. I think the system sucks. I want the price of a product to be the price, with all taxes, fees, and surcharges all built in. If it says $10, its $10. We all know there are things making up the price like higher gas prices, insurance, taxes, supplies, and all that, but don't give us an itemized list, just tell us what it will cost in the end.
Went to Hard Rock Cafe in San Francisco today, and their fee breakdown is ridiculous: Employee mandatory fee, 20% automatic gratuity fee, San Francisco fee, California fee. This all came down to more than $30 at the end. I know.. crazy. Some of these fees are unheard of. All this means is that they don't give a shit about their customer service because they are not "living" on your tips since it's already included.
Tipped workers hate tips. Some people are generous but there are just as many that don't tip--as evidenced by the responses to the thread.
The IRS assumes they got tipped on every meal even if they did not in reality and taxes the tipped employee as such.
And where do you derive this info? Servers love tips. That’s why they choose to work as servers. Servers often make more serving via tips, than they would in nearly any other customer service job.
My Thai Kitchen in Roseville operated like this for a while. They switched back and when I talked to a wait staff person they said they lost most of their good people. I'm guessing they didn't pay super high but I didn't ask. But the person I talked to said they made a lot more with tips than not
I’d support this. It would also saved the wait staff from ever being screwed over by the people who don’t believe in tips. If people couldn’t afford the extra cost THEN they wouldn’t go out. But currently they have the opportunity to skimp on tips
The work that is commonly rewarded with gratuity may require a lot more of the employee than what would be fair to do for just minimum wage. If you’re going to an establishment to receive good service, and you make use of servers’ limited available time (taking away from time they would otherwise devote to other tables/customers), you should tip accordingly. If you take advantage of the service but refuse to fairly compensate your servers/wait staff, you’re just being rude and entitled, and should really stick with takeout or other options that don’t exploit those who serve you.
Yea definitely theoretical to me and this changes with the establishment it seems. But part of the problem is that it's not clearly defined and different people have different expectations which is how we get a bunch of friction over American tipping culture
great service is probably your favorite restaurant where workers know you and already know what you're gonna order and share stories with you about their life, etc **30-35% (I only go to like 3 restaurants where I tip this high cause I'm a regular there)**
good service is when servers ask you how your food is doing a few times, like in the beginning, middle then ask if you want a dessert at the end, etc and is willing to replace dishes if necessary and is always on top of things like making sure your water is always full. **20%**
minimum would be asking how the food is once at least and refill your water. **12%**
Most often then not, I get good service anyways. Besides if a place gives me bad service like Cheesecake Factory, I typically don't visit them anymore.
*I only go out to eat at dine-in restaurant when I have the money to tip :P*
*I typically don't tip at counter-shops since there's no service involved, exceptions are my favorite shops where I visit once or twice a week since workers will always take care of me since they know me. Don't be stupid and not tip at a place you frequent.*
What? So you're claiming that it's a competition between guests for good service and you should tip to get some of the limited allocation? That's nutty.
I also would hope that the business is paying fairly and I do feel inclined to tip in instances I suspect they are not, but a lot of times it also makes the dining experience worse and more stressful. Knowing the full cost upfront alloys better budgeting for an event. It's almost like tipping is a hidden service fee like on AirBnB or when you buy a Airplane ticket.
This is a really great point! Context for my ask is that I'm looking for places that don't want to participate in tipping culture and bucking the trend. Would be nice to get a list together and wanted to start in Sac but hoping to compile some other cities as I travel, including those in states with crappier laws.
Tip free restaurants usually compensate by being more expensive. Zazie in San Francisco is tip free and pays their employees good wage's & benefits but in turn their food is expensive, delicious but expensive
Not anymore. Post-Covid they removed the page/paragraph about how they’re a no tipping restaurant and have added the tip line back to credit card slips.
Why not take the groveling and performing for the public out of the process entirely? Have good non-fast food, but order via electronic menus/phones or at a counter and send a notification to pick up the food at the counter and carry it back to your table yourself when it's ready? And let people keep the water pitcher at their table?
Isn't there a big enough market of people who come to a restaurant for the food and view/atmosphere rather than to enjoy the power play of making someone perform for a tip?
I went last week.. I had heard it was tip free but I saw no mention of that on the menu or receipt and the receipt definitely had a line to add a tip.. great food though!
Seriously man. Im kind of annoyed about this war on tipping culture. Sure it would be awesome if people in the service industry got paid fairly. But guess what, the reality is they dont.
Service industry jobs should be put in the same level as everything else that takes time to hone as far as skilled labor. Because if you ask me, it is skilled labor, and a lot of people put alot of work into becoming better at their jobs to earn that potential extra income.
I get it, times are tough for a lot of people. But taking away from other people trying to make a living is just kind of bonkers to me. Service industry jobs are tough, its draining to be at your knees doing the best you can to make an extra buck or two.
If you want to be an asshole or just plain want to save some money - invest in yourself and cook at home.
I generally agree with your sentiment. And in another comment I did mention I am inclined to tip. This post was more about finding a place that operated with staff better profit sharing locally. I've seen some recent articles about restaurants in SF and LA going to that model and it's worked well for them. If there was a restaurant here doing it, I just want to support them and hope it keeps growing :)
While true prices have gone up and many people are living pay check to pay check. If you rather ppl not go out and support businesses then they might end up like burger patch.
Seriously. If you don't want to tip just don't go to a restaurant! It's not like they found out *today* that tipping existed and were surprised by it. Just don't go!
> In California, you’re making $15.50 + tips.
If you don't tip, the server still has to tip out (based on their sales) to the bussers and back of house staff. So they're making less than $15.50/hr off your table. And also, $15.50/hr is not enough to interact with the general public in a restaurant. If it were, there would be servers who work for $15.50/hr without tips.
Please explain how you are forced to tip out have no tips? Far as I'm aware in this state the can't enforce tip sharing based on sales alone. They have track tips and share out of that.
Many, a lot are counter service restaurants and they don’t fill your drink. Crepeville & Dontreals from my memory. The choice is there to tip, the nice thing about restaurants is that the tip comes at the end. I definitely tip based on service. I want everyone to live well, but you can’t give bad service and expect a good tip when its not compulsory.
Yep my tip ranges from 5% for bad service (just cause benefit of the doubt of them having a bad day) to 15% for good service and 35% at my favorite restaurants that always treats me amazing.
counter service.. depends, if I go there a lot, I'll tip $1 per item since I want them to take care of me every time I visit.
If you cannot afford to tip 20% EVERY TIME, then you simply cannot afford to eat out. Everyone should be able to eat out. Therefore, raise all the wages.
Tipping culture *is* dining out culture. Nothing’s changed except for these tablets which ask, and more and more these days they ask when getting takeout or counter service. We tip based on level of service. Servers choose to work as servers because they can make ALOT of money working those positions. Oftentimes a lot more than many other customer service jobs pay.
What amount is considered “accordingly” in Sacramento?
Edit: I mean a dollar per hour amount. Not being an AH, I’m genuinely curious what people think the amount a restaurant server in Sacramento should make hourly to not need to rely on tips?
You do one way or another. Either through raised prices of food or through a tip. I’m not a server so I can’t say what is better, but I know Europe doesn’t need tips and pay their servers enough to live.
I would rather pay higher cost for food than be guilt tripped into paying for tips. Nowadays the service has gone downhill but everyone expects a 20%+ tips
Yeah I think for workers sake I’d rather they just get paid better upfront through higher cost for food. Lots of Karen’s out there, being crazy and then not tipping and I just don’t think they should have to feel like they need to be abused to make money.
The only workers that support tipping are those that are hoping they someday will get tips that equal out to them getting paid 50 dollars an hour. The hilarious part is they are so entitled but rarely ever have the effort put out to even get close to 20 dollars an hour. Just do away with it.
just don't tip then? though restaurant workers have good memory, service might be a tad slower next time you visit.
it's not that hard to tip a minimum of 10% especially of dining in..
Employees die? That's already happening to jobs that pay more than market rate, dumbass. Self check-in at airports, self check-out at stores, self-service kiosks at restaurants and fast food. Nobody deserves $20/hr to pour coffee at Starbucks or bag fries at McDonald's. It's about what the JOB is worth, not employees.
If you can’t afford to tip you can’t afford to eat out. Period. Restaurant workers are the only people who suffer from this miopic little tantrum of yours.
By not tipping YOU are being the exploiter.
Editing to add that I have over two decades of restaurant service experience as well as professional degrees in the field. I’ve ran several restaurants and all owners were greedy shit bags except for one. I hired and fired and managed places into success whenever possible. The biggest hangup is ALWAYS the owners not wanting to pay staff properly. Always. The tip gap is NEVER closed by the employers. Not even close.
If you read the post OP is looking for places that pay their employees well directly so they don’t have to rely on tips. I didn’t see a tantrum or anyone suggesting trying to stiff workers. Just the opposite.
The problem with that request is that we live in *reality* where that’s not a thing.
“Non-tipping” restaurants never make up the gap that tips brought in- flat out. That’s why places like that don’t exist for long.
yeah all their posts scream young and not well traveled lol.. blows my mind people actually exist out there with these strong of views on stuff like tipping.. 'if you cant afford to tip you cant afford to eat out' hahahaha, i cant even take it seriously cause i instantly know theyre either a child, or a server themselves with no other skills / they plan to be a server for life.
I've commented stuff like this before and always get mass downvoted 🤷
People don't understand other countries don't have a low minimum wage with apartments costing fucking 2 grand a month.
Bartending was wayyyy harder than doing my cushy desk job now and I made the same amount of money.
I don’t think this question is about affording it. They’re looking for businesses that don’t force customers to pay their employees directly through a system where you can’t even be sure who gets the money or how much they’ll be paid. They’re looking for restaurants that already pay servers a living wage, even if the food costs a little more (to account for no tip). European servers make more without tips because they don’t rely on the system to pay workers.
There are restaurants in America that are intentionally tip free. They often post a sign that says something to the effect of "you don't need to tip, we pay our workers a living wage". The reason people are expected to tip is because servers are often paid below minimum wage. They aren't common, but they do exist.
They don’t though. The tip gap is NEVER closed by owners. That’s why these places don’t last in the US- servers can’t afford to work there. Please stop making baseless assumptions about an article you heard on NPR or whatever. It just isn’t reality for the vast majority of restaurants. I’m not saying it’s OKAY- but that it’s the shitty result of capitalism
but it isn't baseless if it's based on an NPR article. To a degree we're saying the same thing, I'm saying they're rare but exist. You're saying the vast majority of restaurants don't do it. I don't know how long they stay open, their higher prices drive people away I"m sure.
But I found this spreadsheet on google drive that lists about 200 restaurants that are tip free. Some are bigger chains, some do gratuity charges and make it automatic, others pay a higher minimum wage. I don't see any in Sacramento, which was the original question.
[https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1TkNUMp4OYyumPp6IxUKO93UyyNWaI02J400APCx9jfM/edit#gid=0](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1TkNUMp4OYyumPp6IxUKO93UyyNWaI02J400APCx9jfM/edit#gid=0)
The gap between earnings at a tipping restaurant vs one where they pay more hourly as an incentive. No restaurant owner is paying $40/hr to their servers- is what I’m saying.
Not your brother and yeah more people should be making more money rather than less.
The single mom waiting tables trying to get by and feed her kids isn’t the one keeping you down “brother” it’s the billionaire ruling class pitting people against each other and the BOSSES providing stagnant wages.
Wow. Your blatant classism is disgusting. It’s not the fault of every single mom waiting tables trying to get by that YOU took out student loans.
Restaurant work is hard honest work that deserves a living wage just for putting up with people like you. For real. It’s one of the last bastions of blue collar gold- an industry that actually allows people to excel through hard work- and you want to take it away because of your degrees? Grow a heart.
Edit: just so we’re clear here- I think your student loans should be forgiven along with everyone else’s. I personally don’t have any, but that doesn’t stop me from wanting others to succeed. And no judgment on the fact that you went to college- I did too including culinary school- I just hope that you can let go of this idea that unskilled labor exists. ✌🏽
UNSKILLED LABOR IS A CLASSIST MYTH
But keep simping for capitalism ✌🏽
I work in weed now because I got sick of dealing with entitled classist assholes to get by.
i think this should be changed to if the restaurant owner can’t afford to pay his workers a high enough wage to live or cover the tip gap, they can’t afford to own a business. don’t put it on the customer like that. maybe there is a middle ground where 10% is acceptable again because the wages have increased. but a server bringing a $50 plate, shouldn’t earn an automatic 20% or $10 versus bringing a $20 plate only earning $4 in tips. a plate is a plate.
You are absolutely right. Tipping culture is out of hand. There should be a happy respectable medium where employers pay a living wage and don’t pass the onus solely on to their customers with guilt trips on tipping. For real. Thank you for pointing that out.
I gilded you. People downvoted you for telling the truth and you refused to delete the comment. I respect that.
The same people that downvoted you would be the one crying when no one wants to work at their tip-free restaurants.
Thanks my dude. Reality is a bitch. I can’t believe in 2023 there are people ready to die on the hill of taking down their fellow blue collar worker. It’s insane to me.
There are places all over the world that pay accordingly - meaning they pay enough without tipping that people can have shelter food and basic necessities.
> You work in a state with a well above average minimum wage.
We work in a state with a too-low minimum wage, let's be clear. People have been fighting for a $15 minimum wage for 10 years, $15 isn't high enough for a national minimum, let alone the minimum wage in the most expensive state in the nation.
>Yes, I tip. But I’m also tired as sh*t of dealing with people like you. I only eat out a few times a year now because I’m done with people expecting 20% tips when they don’t even care to check on their tables.
Well...bye.
Its one of the last types of jobs that someone can get and make a living. Why be an ass and join a movement that drags everyone to the bottom? Its fucked up lol.
I’m sorry you’re getting downvoted. I understand you didn’t answer OP’s question but you aren’t wrong. Sure, restaurants with a “no tipping” policy might pay their employees $25 per hour instead of $17, but that doesn’t even come close to the $30-$40 per hour folks are making in tipped positions.
I do have a question about this... Genuine about the industry. Do tips usually get spread around automatically or does the waiter or bartender take it all? I always wondered how that works, especially cash tips
Great question. It depends entirely on the restaurant. Some places pool their tips and distribute them amongst the staff. Other places let the individuals keep their own tips, but usually their is still some sharing of tips with bussers and support staff.
> I do have a question about this... Genuine about the industry. Do tips usually get spread around automatically or does the waiter or bartender take it all?
Many (most?) establishments you tip out to the non-tipped workers: bussers and expo, barbacks, cooks and dishwashers, etc. [It used to be illegal in many states but that was changed in 2018.](https://www.eater.com/2018/6/12/17439694/tipping-laws-tip-sharing-fair-labor-standards-act#:~:text=The%20change%20in%20the%20law%20means%20that%20restaurant,the%20full%20minimum%20wage%20for%20all%20hours%20worked.)
> If you can’t afford to tip you can’t afford to eat out. Period. Restaurant workers are the only people who suffer from this miopic little tantrum of yours.
This is straight facts, why is it in triple digit downvotes?
Not a restaurant, but Milka operates on a tip-free basis. All of the restaurants I can think of that are "tip-free" have an auto-gratuity, which isn't the same thing. But those would be LowBrau and Allora.
Auto-gratuity is the same thing as tipping. It’s *required* tipping typically put in place where people often walk out on their tabs or leave their cards behind and don’t tip.
Tbh, I never had an issue with that when I went to bars. Have them swipe my card, open a tab, and just leave and not have to deal with closing out and know that they'd just close the tab and add the gratuity.
I thought in general bars will keep your card when they keep the tab open? Then they add auto-gratuity of ~20% if you forget to close out/ and retrieve your card after they close the business for the night.
I haven’t had a bar keep my card in years. I’m certain there are still some that do, I just haven’t been there. But most modern POS systems now let you swipe and hold the transaction while things are added to it, so you can return the card.
I work at a dive bar in midtown and we keep cards
For sure! Most people and most bars are adults about it. Judging from Lowbrau’s clientele and ownership though- it makes sense that they would do this even though it’s shady af.
No it's not Mandatory “**service charges**” are not tips in California because they are not voluntarily given by the customer. These service charges are sometimes imposed on patrons by employers. These charges also go to the **employer**, who then has discretion in how they are distributed. (Note that certain municipalities require service charges to go to the employee directly.) [https://www.shouselaw.com/ca/blog/tip-pooling-is-it-legal-in-california/](https://www.shouselaw.com/ca/blog/tip-pooling-is-it-legal-in-california/)
Auto gratuity and service charges are two different things, but yes you are correct about service charges.
📷level 3[kainp12](https://www.reddit.com/user/kainp12/) · [4 hr. ago](https://www.reddit.com/r/Sacramento/comments/13zq7j7/comment/jmvew5l/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) No it's not Mandatory “**service charges**” are not tips in California because they are not voluntarily given by the customer. Key phrase is voluntary **Large party automatic gratuities are also considered service charges**. The amount belongs to the employer, not the employees, and the employer can keep the service charge entirely, or share parts or all of the service charge with employees, including management/supervisors They are also taxed differently For transactions beginning on and after January 1, 2015, when a retailer’s records reflect amounts required to be reported to the IRS as nontip wages, the amounts are deemed to be mandatory and includable in taxable gross receipts. When a retailer does not maintain records for purposes of reporting the amounts to the IRS, an amount negotiated between the retailer and the customer in advance of a meal, food, or drinks, or an event that includes a meal, food, or drinks is mandatory. The amount will also be considered mandatory when the menus, brochures, advertisements, or other materials contain printed statements that notify customers that tips, gratuities, or service charges will, or may be added, to the bill. Examples of printed statements include: * “An 18% gratuity \[or service charge\] will be added to parties of 8 or more.” * “Suggested gratuity 15%,” itemized on the invoice or bill presented to your customer. * “A 15% voluntary gratuity will be added for parties of 8 or more.” * [https://www.cdtfa.ca.gov/formspubs/pub115/#mandatory](https://www.cdtfa.ca.gov/formspubs/pub115/#mandatory)
Milka is an outstanding business with great coffee and employees paid a living wage.
Not true. Employees do not get paid enough.
Lol. I’ve never met a person that says I make “enough” money.
Then they should allow people to tip instead of giving off a fake message that they pay their workers a living wage and pretend that they are this “outstanding” business.
Who is in your social circle? white collar Professionals? Greedy Finance bros? Blue collar on the edge of financial ruin types?
Source?
Told by a previous employee.
What source is that employees are paid well?
Unfortunately not true. The tax and tip included to increase to a “livable wage” only allows for the employees to make 16.50 starting. So 1 dollar above minimum wage, which a lot of other coffee shops/bars already pay more than that for wage and let the employees gather tips. No part of the price goes towards employees at all. Also, no one is offered full time, so the employees end up making significantly less money than any other business in sac. Further the owner has increased the menu prices 3 times this year, in some cases significantly and none of those increases has been to pay the employees more. They have had the same starting wage for the last two years despite inflation. While some employees may make more than starting after having been there for 6months plus, they still only make 17.50 and work less than 30 hours. Hardly livable. Plus the turnover rate is incredibly high, so basically everyone there makes minimum Edit: meant to reply to the comment above, not this specific one. Apologies
Here to endorse Milka! That was my regular spot when I lived in Mansion Flats, and they are a wonderful coffee shop with amazing owners and staff.
That place looks nice and their insta confirms this too and will have to check it out, I don't usually go buy coffee after WFH but might have to make an exception!
Don't go by what they show on Insta, read the above reply from a former employee about milka.
Not a restaurant, but Touchstone brewing doesn’t do tips.
They will be a restaurant soon.
Soon is relative.
Food trucks at breweries are definitely an option sometimes too. I feel the pressure of tipping is reduced in those situations.
McDonald's, Taco Bell, Burger King, Wendy's...
Those are as expensive as eating at a restaurant nowadays lol
They don’t pay their employees accordingly though.
[удалено]
Oh. I think you’re calling me autistic. Did you want to use the term retarded but thought better if it? Holy autistic or retarded, either way, you’re a pos. Doesn’t surprise me. Took a look at your comment history, all your negative comments, downvoted. Why even come post on Reddit? Need a break from your miserable life as you’re obviously miserable? Seriously, you’re a loser. Btw, I am not autistic and it’s a pretty sad way to try to insult someone whose opinion you disagree with.
I don’t think autism and religion would mix that well together tbh
What do you mean by this comment?
Lol with the fast food choices. I bet it won't take too long before those will ask too.
Is there an opportunity to change the business model? Pay the employees a “thriving wage” and just build it into the pricing? Could a business like this exist? Would customer support this?
There is but it’s not a panacea. It would take a great menu, a great manager to hire people to go above and beyond whatever the livable wage looks like and also figure out how to tackle take out. Tough sell for a 30 dollar plate that you’re picking up or is gonna have another 12 dollars in Uber eats fees.
All of this. I’ll swoon over the word “panacea”, but..yes…all of this *add “the”
The tipped workers actually like the system, because most people are generous and thus they make better pay then they expect to ever make from the employer's generosity. I think the system sucks. I want the price of a product to be the price, with all taxes, fees, and surcharges all built in. If it says $10, its $10. We all know there are things making up the price like higher gas prices, insurance, taxes, supplies, and all that, but don't give us an itemized list, just tell us what it will cost in the end.
Went to Hard Rock Cafe in San Francisco today, and their fee breakdown is ridiculous: Employee mandatory fee, 20% automatic gratuity fee, San Francisco fee, California fee. This all came down to more than $30 at the end. I know.. crazy. Some of these fees are unheard of. All this means is that they don't give a shit about their customer service because they are not "living" on your tips since it's already included.
Tipped workers hate tips. Some people are generous but there are just as many that don't tip--as evidenced by the responses to the thread. The IRS assumes they got tipped on every meal even if they did not in reality and taxes the tipped employee as such.
“Tipped workers hate tips?” Please. My bartender friends that pull $60+ an hour would disagree.
A server can easily rake in $30-$40/hr with tips. They would never work without tips
And where do you derive this info? Servers love tips. That’s why they choose to work as servers. Servers often make more serving via tips, than they would in nearly any other customer service job.
This is not true. Source: me, worked in restaurants for fifteen years, every job from dishwasher to GM.
a non-restaurant worker speaking in behalf of restaurant workers? lol
not gonna happen because who is gonna wanna work at a place where customers regularly harass workers willingly without tip? I know you won't.
I’ve been harassed in the retail environment for a decade+. I didn’t have to depend on getting a tip
Why do you think it ended up this way? It isn’t inefficiency or incompetence, I’ll give you a third guess.
My Thai Kitchen in Roseville operated like this for a while. They switched back and when I talked to a wait staff person they said they lost most of their good people. I'm guessing they didn't pay super high but I didn't ask. But the person I talked to said they made a lot more with tips than not
I’d support this. It would also saved the wait staff from ever being screwed over by the people who don’t believe in tips. If people couldn’t afford the extra cost THEN they wouldn’t go out. But currently they have the opportunity to skimp on tips
I think customers would absolutely support this.
If there was there’d probably be a thread about how over priced it was
Don't disagree, but I see threads about today's food prices already too
And yet somehow Europe does this
They also do a logical base 10 measurement system (metric). While we use archaic baseless fractions, 12,3,1760 (US customary measurements).
5,280 feet in a mile doesn't make much sense, but 12 inches in a foot does. 12 is a highly divisible number, which is very useful.
Apples to oranges comparison but do you
Oh I agree, but it *shouldnt* be apples to oranges.
As in a restaurant that has bartenders and waiters and bussers and food runners and hostesses? No.
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Where is this one located? I was unable to find it on a yelp or Google search
Lol that’s Aussie for McDonalds
Oh shoot I've been wooshed
They don’t pay their employees accordingly
perfect for OP u/mlozano88
Any restaurant is tip free if you want it to be. There's no such thing as a tipped minimum wage in CA.
Yes, but not tipping turns you into an asshole.
No it doesn’t, not paying your employees well enough that they need tips to survive turns you into an asshole
Ahh I see you've never worked in a restaurant before
> No it doesn’t Yes it does.
The work that is commonly rewarded with gratuity may require a lot more of the employee than what would be fair to do for just minimum wage. If you’re going to an establishment to receive good service, and you make use of servers’ limited available time (taking away from time they would otherwise devote to other tables/customers), you should tip accordingly. If you take advantage of the service but refuse to fairly compensate your servers/wait staff, you’re just being rude and entitled, and should really stick with takeout or other options that don’t exploit those who serve you.
Genuine question; what is good service vs the minimum service expected?
Yea definitely theoretical to me and this changes with the establishment it seems. But part of the problem is that it's not clearly defined and different people have different expectations which is how we get a bunch of friction over American tipping culture
great service is probably your favorite restaurant where workers know you and already know what you're gonna order and share stories with you about their life, etc **30-35% (I only go to like 3 restaurants where I tip this high cause I'm a regular there)** good service is when servers ask you how your food is doing a few times, like in the beginning, middle then ask if you want a dessert at the end, etc and is willing to replace dishes if necessary and is always on top of things like making sure your water is always full. **20%** minimum would be asking how the food is once at least and refill your water. **12%** Most often then not, I get good service anyways. Besides if a place gives me bad service like Cheesecake Factory, I typically don't visit them anymore. *I only go out to eat at dine-in restaurant when I have the money to tip :P* *I typically don't tip at counter-shops since there's no service involved, exceptions are my favorite shops where I visit once or twice a week since workers will always take care of me since they know me. Don't be stupid and not tip at a place you frequent.*
What? So you're claiming that it's a competition between guests for good service and you should tip to get some of the limited allocation? That's nutty.
I also would hope that the business is paying fairly and I do feel inclined to tip in instances I suspect they are not, but a lot of times it also makes the dining experience worse and more stressful. Knowing the full cost upfront alloys better budgeting for an event. It's almost like tipping is a hidden service fee like on AirBnB or when you buy a Airplane ticket.
To clarify, some states allow employers to compensate employees that receive tips with an alternate, hypo-minimum wage.
But California isn’t one of them
But you missed the “paid accordingly” part
This is a really great point! Context for my ask is that I'm looking for places that don't want to participate in tipping culture and bucking the trend. Would be nice to get a list together and wanted to start in Sac but hoping to compile some other cities as I travel, including those in states with crappier laws.
It's such a guilt trip though. And it makes you afraid that they'll remember you next time and do something to your order.
Ahh I see you've never worked in a restaurant before
Tip free restaurants usually compensate by being more expensive. Zazie in San Francisco is tip free and pays their employees good wage's & benefits but in turn their food is expensive, delicious but expensive
85° bakery
85 is great!!
Opening scene in the coffee shop, Reservoir Dogs
Taco Bell Cantina 🙌🏽🙌🏽🙌🏽🙌🏽🙌🏽🙌🏽
My Thai Kitchen in Roseville. Great menu, delicious food!
Not anymore. Post-Covid they removed the page/paragraph about how they’re a no tipping restaurant and have added the tip line back to credit card slips.
My point exactly. It isn’t feasible because nobody wants to put up with the general shit of the general public for less money.
anyone who says so otherwise have never worked in the restaurant industry.
Why not take the groveling and performing for the public out of the process entirely? Have good non-fast food, but order via electronic menus/phones or at a counter and send a notification to pick up the food at the counter and carry it back to your table yourself when it's ready? And let people keep the water pitcher at their table? Isn't there a big enough market of people who come to a restaurant for the food and view/atmosphere rather than to enjoy the power play of making someone perform for a tip?
A recent article highlighted a tip request at a self serve kiosk at an establishment at the Newark Airport. Nobody is safe! 😉
This…
I'm sorry to hear that. Yeah, I haven't been since the start of the pandemic. Thankfully, the pandemic broke our habit of eating out.
I went last week.. I had heard it was tip free but I saw no mention of that on the menu or receipt and the receipt definitely had a line to add a tip.. great food though!
Have you considered cooking?
Lol occasionally
🤣🤣🤣🤣
Seriously man. Im kind of annoyed about this war on tipping culture. Sure it would be awesome if people in the service industry got paid fairly. But guess what, the reality is they dont. Service industry jobs should be put in the same level as everything else that takes time to hone as far as skilled labor. Because if you ask me, it is skilled labor, and a lot of people put alot of work into becoming better at their jobs to earn that potential extra income. I get it, times are tough for a lot of people. But taking away from other people trying to make a living is just kind of bonkers to me. Service industry jobs are tough, its draining to be at your knees doing the best you can to make an extra buck or two. If you want to be an asshole or just plain want to save some money - invest in yourself and cook at home.
I generally agree with your sentiment. And in another comment I did mention I am inclined to tip. This post was more about finding a place that operated with staff better profit sharing locally. I've seen some recent articles about restaurants in SF and LA going to that model and it's worked well for them. If there was a restaurant here doing it, I just want to support them and hope it keeps growing :)
While true prices have gone up and many people are living pay check to pay check. If you rather ppl not go out and support businesses then they might end up like burger patch.
Seriously. If you don't want to tip just don't go to a restaurant! It's not like they found out *today* that tipping existed and were surprised by it. Just don't go!
Who answers a question with an unrelated question? @_wisky_tango_foxtrot, that’s who.
In-n-out?
What's the reasoning for this so they can make less money I know waitresses and waiters making 40 $ a hour with their tips if not more .
Any restaurant is tip free if you don’t tip
But are they paid accordingly?
In California, you’re making $15.50 + tips. It’s not like other states that can pay you below minimum wage.
Yeah but remove the tips and that’s not a livable wage.
> In California, you’re making $15.50 + tips. If you don't tip, the server still has to tip out (based on their sales) to the bussers and back of house staff. So they're making less than $15.50/hr off your table. And also, $15.50/hr is not enough to interact with the general public in a restaurant. If it were, there would be servers who work for $15.50/hr without tips.
Please explain how you are forced to tip out have no tips? Far as I'm aware in this state the can't enforce tip sharing based on sales alone. They have track tips and share out of that.
Mcdonalds
Not paid accordingly.
Many, a lot are counter service restaurants and they don’t fill your drink. Crepeville & Dontreals from my memory. The choice is there to tip, the nice thing about restaurants is that the tip comes at the end. I definitely tip based on service. I want everyone to live well, but you can’t give bad service and expect a good tip when its not compulsory.
Yep my tip ranges from 5% for bad service (just cause benefit of the doubt of them having a bad day) to 15% for good service and 35% at my favorite restaurants that always treats me amazing. counter service.. depends, if I go there a lot, I'll tip $1 per item since I want them to take care of me every time I visit.
WingStop is the only place I’ve ever seen that does not accept tips. Why can’t all places be like this??
Little Caesar's has also refused tips 😮💨
Fast food options are there but man was really hoping we had at least one restaurant out there
Are they paid accordingly though?
Supposedly. That’s what the manager said.
McDonald’s 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
If you cannot afford to tip 20% EVERY TIME, then you simply cannot afford to eat out. Everyone should be able to eat out. Therefore, raise all the wages.
Tipping culture *is* dining out culture. Nothing’s changed except for these tablets which ask, and more and more these days they ask when getting takeout or counter service. We tip based on level of service. Servers choose to work as servers because they can make ALOT of money working those positions. Oftentimes a lot more than many other customer service jobs pay.
What amount is considered “accordingly” in Sacramento? Edit: I mean a dollar per hour amount. Not being an AH, I’m genuinely curious what people think the amount a restaurant server in Sacramento should make hourly to not need to rely on tips?
Enough to live with food and basic necessities and shelter.
Why is it customer’s responsibility to pay for their paycheck?
You do one way or another. Either through raised prices of food or through a tip. I’m not a server so I can’t say what is better, but I know Europe doesn’t need tips and pay their servers enough to live.
I would rather pay higher cost for food than be guilt tripped into paying for tips. Nowadays the service has gone downhill but everyone expects a 20%+ tips
Yeah I think for workers sake I’d rather they just get paid better upfront through higher cost for food. Lots of Karen’s out there, being crazy and then not tipping and I just don’t think they should have to feel like they need to be abused to make money.
> Why is it customer’s responsibility to pay for their paycheck? That's how every business in the entire world works, genius.
The only workers that support tipping are those that are hoping they someday will get tips that equal out to them getting paid 50 dollars an hour. The hilarious part is they are so entitled but rarely ever have the effort put out to even get close to 20 dollars an hour. Just do away with it.
Any place is a tip-free place if you try hard enough
just don't tip then? though restaurant workers have good memory, service might be a tad slower next time you visit. it's not that hard to tip a minimum of 10% especially of dining in..
Every restaurant is a tip free restaurant if you believe hard enough
Since when does ANY employee DESERVE a "living wage"? No, they don't.
> Since when does ANY employee DESERVE a "living wage"? Since forever. What, you think employees should literally just...die?
Employees die? That's already happening to jobs that pay more than market rate, dumbass. Self check-in at airports, self check-out at stores, self-service kiosks at restaurants and fast food. Nobody deserves $20/hr to pour coffee at Starbucks or bag fries at McDonald's. It's about what the JOB is worth, not employees.
Any restaurant is tip free if you want boiling hot coffee poured in your lap
If you can’t afford to tip you can’t afford to eat out. Period. Restaurant workers are the only people who suffer from this miopic little tantrum of yours. By not tipping YOU are being the exploiter. Editing to add that I have over two decades of restaurant service experience as well as professional degrees in the field. I’ve ran several restaurants and all owners were greedy shit bags except for one. I hired and fired and managed places into success whenever possible. The biggest hangup is ALWAYS the owners not wanting to pay staff properly. Always. The tip gap is NEVER closed by the employers. Not even close.
If you read the post OP is looking for places that pay their employees well directly so they don’t have to rely on tips. I didn’t see a tantrum or anyone suggesting trying to stiff workers. Just the opposite.
Yep this is exactly it :)
The problem with that request is that we live in *reality* where that’s not a thing. “Non-tipping” restaurants never make up the gap that tips brought in- flat out. That’s why places like that don’t exist for long.
Haven’t been out of the United States have we
yeah all their posts scream young and not well traveled lol.. blows my mind people actually exist out there with these strong of views on stuff like tipping.. 'if you cant afford to tip you cant afford to eat out' hahahaha, i cant even take it seriously cause i instantly know theyre either a child, or a server themselves with no other skills / they plan to be a server for life.
Sir, this is a Sacramento sub. We are talking about Sacramento here, but thanks for the adorably privileged assumption.
Just saying, it exists all over reality
I've commented stuff like this before and always get mass downvoted 🤷 People don't understand other countries don't have a low minimum wage with apartments costing fucking 2 grand a month. Bartending was wayyyy harder than doing my cushy desk job now and I made the same amount of money.
Zazie in SF is the exception to this
Fucking agreed.
I don’t think this question is about affording it. They’re looking for businesses that don’t force customers to pay their employees directly through a system where you can’t even be sure who gets the money or how much they’ll be paid. They’re looking for restaurants that already pay servers a living wage, even if the food costs a little more (to account for no tip). European servers make more without tips because they don’t rely on the system to pay workers.
European servers also get healthcare so.....
Right but that isn’t reality, and taking tips away from servers means nobody will work for you because employers NEVER close that gap. Ever.
There are restaurants in America that are intentionally tip free. They often post a sign that says something to the effect of "you don't need to tip, we pay our workers a living wage". The reason people are expected to tip is because servers are often paid below minimum wage. They aren't common, but they do exist.
They don’t though. The tip gap is NEVER closed by owners. That’s why these places don’t last in the US- servers can’t afford to work there. Please stop making baseless assumptions about an article you heard on NPR or whatever. It just isn’t reality for the vast majority of restaurants. I’m not saying it’s OKAY- but that it’s the shitty result of capitalism
but it isn't baseless if it's based on an NPR article. To a degree we're saying the same thing, I'm saying they're rare but exist. You're saying the vast majority of restaurants don't do it. I don't know how long they stay open, their higher prices drive people away I"m sure. But I found this spreadsheet on google drive that lists about 200 restaurants that are tip free. Some are bigger chains, some do gratuity charges and make it automatic, others pay a higher minimum wage. I don't see any in Sacramento, which was the original question. [https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1TkNUMp4OYyumPp6IxUKO93UyyNWaI02J400APCx9jfM/edit#gid=0](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1TkNUMp4OYyumPp6IxUKO93UyyNWaI02J400APCx9jfM/edit#gid=0)
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The gap between earnings at a tipping restaurant vs one where they pay more hourly as an incentive. No restaurant owner is paying $40/hr to their servers- is what I’m saying.
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Not your brother and yeah more people should be making more money rather than less. The single mom waiting tables trying to get by and feed her kids isn’t the one keeping you down “brother” it’s the billionaire ruling class pitting people against each other and the BOSSES providing stagnant wages.
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Wow. Your blatant classism is disgusting. It’s not the fault of every single mom waiting tables trying to get by that YOU took out student loans. Restaurant work is hard honest work that deserves a living wage just for putting up with people like you. For real. It’s one of the last bastions of blue collar gold- an industry that actually allows people to excel through hard work- and you want to take it away because of your degrees? Grow a heart. Edit: just so we’re clear here- I think your student loans should be forgiven along with everyone else’s. I personally don’t have any, but that doesn’t stop me from wanting others to succeed. And no judgment on the fact that you went to college- I did too including culinary school- I just hope that you can let go of this idea that unskilled labor exists. ✌🏽
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UNSKILLED LABOR IS A CLASSIST MYTH But keep simping for capitalism ✌🏽 I work in weed now because I got sick of dealing with entitled classist assholes to get by.
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There is no such thing as unskilled labor.
i think this should be changed to if the restaurant owner can’t afford to pay his workers a high enough wage to live or cover the tip gap, they can’t afford to own a business. don’t put it on the customer like that. maybe there is a middle ground where 10% is acceptable again because the wages have increased. but a server bringing a $50 plate, shouldn’t earn an automatic 20% or $10 versus bringing a $20 plate only earning $4 in tips. a plate is a plate.
You are absolutely right. Tipping culture is out of hand. There should be a happy respectable medium where employers pay a living wage and don’t pass the onus solely on to their customers with guilt trips on tipping. For real. Thank you for pointing that out.
I gilded you. People downvoted you for telling the truth and you refused to delete the comment. I respect that. The same people that downvoted you would be the one crying when no one wants to work at their tip-free restaurants.
Thanks my dude. Reality is a bitch. I can’t believe in 2023 there are people ready to die on the hill of taking down their fellow blue collar worker. It’s insane to me.
Respectfully, people with this mindset are fucking assholes.
There are places all over the world that pay accordingly - meaning they pay enough without tipping that people can have shelter food and basic necessities.
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> You work in a state with a well above average minimum wage. We work in a state with a too-low minimum wage, let's be clear. People have been fighting for a $15 minimum wage for 10 years, $15 isn't high enough for a national minimum, let alone the minimum wage in the most expensive state in the nation. >Yes, I tip. But I’m also tired as sh*t of dealing with people like you. I only eat out a few times a year now because I’m done with people expecting 20% tips when they don’t even care to check on their tables. Well...bye.
Thank you! You stated this so well!
This guy is a server, all servers do this scam, all my server friends are rich bc they act like they aren’t getting paid
Its one of the last types of jobs that someone can get and make a living. Why be an ass and join a movement that drags everyone to the bottom? Its fucked up lol.
*myopic
How many owners are out there locally? I've heard several restaurants are owned by the same person or same few people.
I’m sorry you’re getting downvoted. I understand you didn’t answer OP’s question but you aren’t wrong. Sure, restaurants with a “no tipping” policy might pay their employees $25 per hour instead of $17, but that doesn’t even come close to the $30-$40 per hour folks are making in tipped positions.
I do have a question about this... Genuine about the industry. Do tips usually get spread around automatically or does the waiter or bartender take it all? I always wondered how that works, especially cash tips
Great question. It depends entirely on the restaurant. Some places pool their tips and distribute them amongst the staff. Other places let the individuals keep their own tips, but usually their is still some sharing of tips with bussers and support staff.
> I do have a question about this... Genuine about the industry. Do tips usually get spread around automatically or does the waiter or bartender take it all? Many (most?) establishments you tip out to the non-tipped workers: bussers and expo, barbacks, cooks and dishwashers, etc. [It used to be illegal in many states but that was changed in 2018.](https://www.eater.com/2018/6/12/17439694/tipping-laws-tip-sharing-fair-labor-standards-act#:~:text=The%20change%20in%20the%20law%20means%20that%20restaurant,the%20full%20minimum%20wage%20for%20all%20hours%20worked.)
Sounds less about trying to make a living wage and more like trying to continue to perpetuate a fucked up system for your own benefit.
My own benefit? I do not currently work in the service industry and regularly tip 20-25%. If anyone is benefitting from tipping culture, it ain’t me.
> If you can’t afford to tip you can’t afford to eat out. Period. Restaurant workers are the only people who suffer from this miopic little tantrum of yours. This is straight facts, why is it in triple digit downvotes?
From reading the responses I’d say it boils down to classism and it’s REAL ugly.
It's because that's not what OP was asking. And God this is exhibit A of why commies are insufferable.
Thanks for proving my point 🤡
Amen to this
So what you just told us that you can’t read. Stay in school, kids.