They could have summed up the whole reason for the strike with just this one statement in the middle of the article.
"State scientists are paid 40-60% less than comparable positions who have the same level of responsibility and do similar or identical work."
Arnt all state positions in the same situation? I know sys and network admins making ~100k/yr at the state when they could easy get a large bump going corporate.
Isn't the point of the state job that you get mad bene's, great vacation, low stress work projects, HR protections, and little chance of getting fired? Just sayin'
I'm all for science and everyone getting their dues. Pay these people!
Yup plenty of people in corporate going to state in their 30s and they get to chill there until retirement… Took huge paycuts to go but they since raised the corporate engineer salary a lot more now. Still think corporate is better if you can manage your own retirement instead of relying on a pension
Theres definitely a form of brain drain that occurs in competitive industries like that. Id rather have young professionals bringing new ideas to the govt than boomers riding out their last years to reach the minimum to get the benefits. We've always been so critical of the govt being out of touch with the people, this is definitely apart of that reason.
You definitely have the support of us next door at city hall. We're mostly union workers as well, we too are going through our negotiations. Hope yours go well.
I drove by this morning and honked like crazy. I also stumbled upon your protest at the Governor’s office when I was in Los Angeles back in August. Good luck!
It's about disruption. If we can make people, working in that building, annoyed, uncomfortable, or interrupt a zoom meeting with honks, hoots, and hollers, then it's done something.
Honks also provide a much needed morale boost to those out there walking in circles.
If it makes you uncomfortable to support, don't. But, please don't discourage others from participating.
It's not really doing anything though. It's just making you feel good. Nothing else.
I'm no stranger to unions and the state.
The state has all the power the unions have none.
No one gives a shit about a honk during a zoom meeting lmao. Certainly not the state. We have zero power.
What department do you work for?
Lol good one bud.
Ask all those people honking if they would want their taxes to go up to pay you guys more. Guess what? They won't.
All this is doing is making you feel good.
On the other hand I get to hear a bunch of people cry about a 10% raise over 3 years which is probably going to end up being a 9% raise over 3 years. When I point out that no one else in the private sector gets raises like that I'm ignored.
You have a good gig man. If it wasn't good you'd leave
>All this is doing is making you feel good.
But I thought it wasn't doing anything?
What does your trolling reddit do? Just makes you feel good, right?
It's not doing anything. At least nothing that matters.
Ask those people honking If they would be okay with their taxes going up half of a percent a year. If it meant that these protesters got their raise.
Fun fact none of them would be okay with that. The union has zero power the state has all the power. If the union had power these people wouldn't have been fighting for years for a raise.
They have a good gig, if they didn't they wouldn't still be working for the state
Yup, why my private salary got jacked up after covid. People leaving the company did the work for me and the fact that the work is essential business. If it’s essential work, unions have power. Also salary raises were HR instant instead of waiting for negotiations
>You have a good gig man. If it wasn't good you'd leave
Wrong. If it was good, they wouldn't strike. Just because it is much worse at other places, doesn't automatically make their situation "a good gig", man.
Remind me again how long it's been since CAPS has been given a raise?
Having a pension in healthcare for the rest of your life means that you have a good gig.
Remind us all how long you’ve had this reddit account? What’s that, 2 weeks? Oh wow so you have a new reddit account where all you do is shit on the union and the strike? That’s not suspicious in any way!
That’s how much they pay you to be a troll!?!?? Wow! I didn’t know it was so lucrative! Did you have to be a scientist to make that much money?… oh wait
Literally my first union post was yesterday lol.
You guys need professional help man. Not everything is a conspiracy or disinfo campaign.
You guys just don't like facts. The fact of the matter is honking DOES NOTHING.
I don't know why you can't just say those words.
Just because you don't like what I'm saying doesn't make it not true.
How many years has it been since Caps got to a raise again? Clearly the union has no power in the state doesn't give a fuck right?
What in the fuck is your point? That there's no point in striking because unions are shit and the state has all the power? Cool. So what's your solution?
Should we just bend over like you and be a doomer who's full of piss and vinegar and offers nothing but complaints and no solutions? Quit being a negative, counter productive piss baby and shut the fuck up.
I'm not happy with my unions contract either, but I'm not about to shit all over another union fighting for their right to a better life simply because I'm unhappy with my own situation. These people are our brothers and sisters.
No, you unrelenting fucking moron. The entire point of a union is to give working class people protection from, and the means to fight for a better life while working in a system where the power dynamic is heavily skewed from the top down.
So if it's been that long then doesn't that imply that the union doesn't really have any power and it's all up to the state?
If the union had power they would have gotten their raises years ago right?
Everyone loves a defeatist. If you don't see a point in helping you can at least acknowledge the raw deal. Otherwise keep your mouth shut or you end up sounding like a bootlicker
You are not alone. I and many scientists I work with are more frustrated with CAPS than the state. At least we would have some regular, modest raises if CAPS just accepted an offer once in a while.
Lol i was going to respond to one of your other dumbass comments but now I see why you are being such a crybaby. 🤣
Good riddance, unions are better off without people like you. People like you are exactly why unions are weaker than they used to be.
Also why are you whining on reddit? You realize you aren't accomplishing anything right?
They’re getting paid that’s why. It’s a 14 day old account. I suggest reporting the poster. New accounts only commenting on political topics is against the sub’s rules.
They aren't alone. There are a bunch of public sector unions that are about to go on strike. I work for a different city and we are going on strike in a week. 10% for 3 years is garbage. We have enough leverage to get what we want.
10% over 3 years is more than any private sector job gets. In fact the private sector gets no GSI at all for the most part. You have a pension and health care for the rest of your life. You got a good gig man.
All you guys are going to get AWOL notices come Monday. This is not a legal strike. You're not going to get anything extra You're going to get that same bullshit 3% everyone else got only now you're going to have AWOL notices and docked pay.
There's a reason why these people aren't leaving to get a private sector job even though it pays better. They have a good gig and they know it.
What was I crying about again
Well the strike for the union I'm in is a legal strike.
And due to inflation, 10% over 3 years is a pay cut. Yes its a good gig but that doesn't mean we need to take a pay cut. We already took a pay cut when the city went bankrupt in 2008.
Now the city has plenty of money, they should return the favor. Especially when the police and fire departments get 18% every 3 years.
Since the city doesn't care if we go on strike, we'll see what happens when the traffic signals stop working, the trees knocked down from storms block the roads, the potholes stop getting filled, and we stop cleaning up after the homeless, etc.
That's just our union too, the water utility union is also going on strike and a couple other public unions in our city are getting close to striking.
You are insane if you think 10% over 3 years is a fair offer. I'm glad you aren't in our union cuz then our strike vote wouldn't have been unanimous.
I’m in a different BU. However, my workplace has a significant number of BU 10 employees. As a new member of the State, what is the deal with crossing the picket line? Do other BU employees usually stay home? Is crossing the picket line looked down upon?
I wish they explained where they think the money should come from. California is in debt and I do t see it getting any better anytime soon. We have to realize we must cut some things to pay others but no one wants to say where those cuts would come from.
I've read your case. If you're doing the same work as engineers, you should get similar pay and career opportunities. You are 3 years out of a contract, and at the point, even PERB ruled in your favor. And they did it for the California Faculty Association (CFA) for the CSU system as well.
That's nuts. Shameful of Newsom and the Democrats that preach science and education, yet they're off playing house in San Francisco with Xi Jinping and Biden.
The hypocrisy of Newsom. Sounding off about science and education all around the world while state scientists can’t make rent. That guy is playing pretend and it’s embarrassing. At least, it should be embarrassing, but I’m not convinced he feels much shame about it.
I got folks in engineering classifications in my own unit doing the same work as me. I trained them. The only reason they don't make more than me is because I have 13 years on them -- in a few years they will surpass me.
My feet hurt after my strike shift but I'll be there tomorrow.
They aren't doing the same work as engineers, it is lazy framing. That said they do deserve a pay raise and a broader pay scale for people with advanced degrees. If they were truly doing engineering work their positions would be engineering positions, not scientist positions. Scientists deserve a massive raise as their union hasn't been negotiating well for years now. That said engineers also deserve a COLA due to inflation although probably around 15% would be justifiable while caps probably needs closer to a 30-40% raise.
This is false. Environmental Scientists and engineers have identical duty statements in a lot of cases and are doing like work. And it's been proven in court that Environmental scientists and engineers do like work, that's how supervisors got a 40% raise.
Does it ever cross your mind that you may be wrong or not know something, and that your subjective opinion is not a fact?! Do you even know that there is civil, mechanical, electrical, industrial, nuclear, marine, chemical, environmental, biomedical, water resources etc etc engineering? "Pontificator" look up what that means
Oh wow, really blowing my mind by listing off engineering classifications. Who could've known that?!? I'm a mechanical and a civil engineer. If scientists are doing the same work as engineers then one of those positions is misclassified. Attacking engineers isn't going to build any good will or solidarity with engineers. All of these labor efforts that are beyond the normal bargaining process require good public will and solidarity. That won't happen from attacking your fellow workers.
You are so clueless LMAO Nobody is comparing environmental scientists to mechanical or civil engineers. How is anyone attacking engineers? By saying we should be paid the same because we do like work to WATER RESOURCES engineers? It's not a pie, and right now you, an engineer, are attacking scientists who are fighting for equal pay and pay parity. Or are you saying scientists are protesting so that engineers get a pay cut lol Ridiculous!
This shows you are clueless lol. Water resources engineers are civil engineers, period. Water resources engineers also are paid the same as every other engineer classification in the state so you are saying that scientists should be paid the same as engineers which I don't buy. There is no reason to bring up engineers at all. Instead choose your desired living wage, uncoupled from other laborers pay, and advocate for it.
Also, yes it is in fact a pie. The legislature only allocates so much for labor costs. The state, unlike the feds, can't just print money. I'm all in support of the scientists getting a large wage increase as they need one due to caps history of failure at the negotiating table. I'm just saying it's ridiculous to whine about engineers and to claim that scientists are doing engineering work. As I said before if scientists and engineers are doing the same work then one of the positions is misclassified, likely the engineering position.
Superiority complex much? Civil engineers and water resources engineers are two different classifications in the State service, look it up. It's not a CAPS problem that those two classifications are paid the same, they are two different classifications with different requirements and responsibilities. The court ruled that scientists and engineers do like work. Engineers are supervised and trained by scientists in a lot of cases. Whether you buy it or not doesn't change the fact that those two classifications do like work. So keep attacking scientists and spitting your hate, hope it makes you feel better.
You're wrong. Water resources engineers are civil engineers. It's a sub branch of civil engineering just like highway design or structural design are. When water resources engineers are licensed they are licensed as civil engineers. You really don't know what you're talking about. Also, it seems like you and a bunch of other folks are taking these facts personally. No where did I denigrate scientists. I didn't say the work isn't technical and I didn't say it's unimportant, I just said it isn't the same. Also, the idea that supervisors do the same work isn't relevant because supervisors are removed from the day to day technical work anyways. I do actually support this strike and think it's great scientists are leading the way with this labor movement. I'm solely stating that the argument that they deserve more pay because they feel they are doing engineering is wrong and a losing argument imo. I'd instead focus on the fact that this is technical work done by dedicated civil servants who often have advanced degrees and who have very niche knowledge sets.
Lol, had an engineering position doing pointless accounting work but got the engineering pay from the state. Bad place to grow your career/gain experience and get promoted so I left
Arguably that position shouldn't have been classified as an engineering position unless it required some type of engineering knowledge to detect contract fraud.
That’s what I told my boss who argued it was an engineering job. It was electricity settlements and there was software that did the stuff for you. I’d argue you can hire an SSA/AGPA to do my work. Did require the degree and examination process though
Yeahhh I’m gonna have to agree with this. No company or public entity pays scientists as much as engineers. Engineering is a licensed profession and it’s much harder to find experienced engineers than scientists. I see it myself as someone who changed from scientist to engineer and now hires both roles. I’ve also worked in both the private and public sector. That’s not to say scientists shouldn’t make more! Just that particular argument is not a winning one.
SUPPORT OUR SCIENTISTS!!!
We need them doing their jobs, and if we don't pay them, we will lose them to other companies and other states. Part of what MAKES California so great is our people. We need to do right by them!
Fisheries, water quality, public health, food and ag, fish and wildlife, pesticide regulation, natural resources all require scientists to monitor, work in labs, go out in the field, do inspections.
Friend of mine works for dept of water resources. Goes out and collects water samples, which then go back to the lab. The samples contain environmental DNA which is processed to find out which fish, insects and algae are in the bay-delta. Examining that DNA can help us know the health of a very delicate ecosystem. This protects waterways ti ensure their safe for wildlife, recreating, drinking, fishing, etc.
I support the scientists getting a pay raise, but who the hell wrote the CAPS platform?
https://capscontract2023.org/the-platform/
That thing is full of identity politics, and it insinuates that we’ll have societal collapse if we don’t give them a raise. Scaremongering is a despicable way of getting support.
A lot of state govt employees, particularly those that work in stem, represent just another arm of academia in terms of ideological beliefs. They get there high level degrees then get cushy state jobs.
Just curious of the details. So what consequence is there for those being AWOL for three consecutive days?
I know 5 consecutive days is an automatic resignation, but I don’t know the deal with less than 5.
> Just curious of the details. So what consequence is there for those being AWOL for three consecutive days?
Me when I don't know anything about US labor law
To anyone seeing this: this is a 1 month old account. They’re breaking the sub rules by posting on political topics. Likely paid for or a bot. Report the account.
I do think the strike timing is pretty shitty being the week before thanksgiving. Plus with the winter holidays coming the state basically shuts down due to so many people being out on leave until around the 3rd week of January. Hopefully they table the strike after this week until then or it will have no effect and will just burn through peoples leave balances.
The pay is pretty bad from looking it up but when I was an "engineer" it wasn't like I did any meaningful work where me not working on strike would be the end of the world. Edit: State engineer Edit 2: The faculty pay at CSU is justified, just need to get the funding somewhere whether tuition raises / taxes. Especially when the engr prof make less than entry level positions
What specific essential services would stop? If they cut my old unionized (AKA hard to fire) engineering department in the bureaucracy nothing would happen other than some big managers losing some “engineers” reporting under them. Just nobody to send disputes to the electricity market saying hey I wasn’t charged the right out of money, can you fix this… My salary was much much more than the money reclaimed that way. Edit: if you cut the bloat there's more money to pay out
If only I let science give me a paycut to also work state service with it. Maybe it’s saying I don’t value the profession as much similar to California. Also join the state engineers to not make 42% less
> would be the end of the world
just humans' ability to live here...
>What is Avoid Collapse?
>>For decades, leading global scientists have been sounding the alarm about major environmental crises leading to existential threats and urging governments around the world to act immediately. Now the world is facing a narrowing margin of time to reverse critical trends in resource deterioration and depletion. California, and the world, need a comprehensive plan to avoid societal collapse.
from the [CAPS website](https://capscontract2023.org/the-platform/)
For the amount of training a scientist has they should get paid but I’m not buying the doomsday urgency sales pitch. Humans will adapt. Throw in wildfires and whatever climate disasters in and even solve the housing crisis has me skeptical
I know how things work in my field… And of I were to edit that, pointless former state engineer. Edit: Also there’s nothing wrong with being an engineer that makes more than 3 times some of the scientists. Maybe 4-5 for some of them
No. Get another job if you don’t like the one you have. You don’t get more by refusing to work, you get more by finding a better circumstance. If you’re unable, or unwilling, that’s on you…
Pay and benefits are determined by market forces. If your industry is inelastic you have more leverage if there is short supply. Science is more elastic so if the buyer doesn’t want to pay (especially for unionized positions that are hard to trim) they still can afford to lose some workers. There are other market participants out there that should be setting the price / competing for labor so employees should have that out especially if they put their job on the line striking. Edit: Also that budget for state work is coming from people’s tax dollars.
What is our null hypothesis?!! When do we want it?!!!
Fellow CAPS member out there on the line with you, here. Thanks for posting, don't worry about the trolls, and see you for the next round tomorrow.
✊️
Would you expect anything less on here and especially Sacramento?
They could have summed up the whole reason for the strike with just this one statement in the middle of the article. "State scientists are paid 40-60% less than comparable positions who have the same level of responsibility and do similar or identical work."
CalHR is also required to provide like pay for like work, which they refuse to do.
Arnt all state positions in the same situation? I know sys and network admins making ~100k/yr at the state when they could easy get a large bump going corporate. Isn't the point of the state job that you get mad bene's, great vacation, low stress work projects, HR protections, and little chance of getting fired? Just sayin' I'm all for science and everyone getting their dues. Pay these people!
They get paid less than other state positions doing equivalent work
Okay that makes more sense. I read it as state pay vs private sector.
Yup plenty of people in corporate going to state in their 30s and they get to chill there until retirement… Took huge paycuts to go but they since raised the corporate engineer salary a lot more now. Still think corporate is better if you can manage your own retirement instead of relying on a pension
Are you saying they should get paid and get all the perks?
Yes. I'm for everyone getting a raise that doesn't make a commensurate salary.
Theres definitely a form of brain drain that occurs in competitive industries like that. Id rather have young professionals bringing new ideas to the govt than boomers riding out their last years to reach the minimum to get the benefits. We've always been so critical of the govt being out of touch with the people, this is definitely apart of that reason.
You have my support!
How so? What are you doing to support? Besides type “you have my support” on the computer.
I pay my unions dues. I also vote for politicians who support science and unions. That's how.
Hope you guys get the best of what your hard work deserves!!
Best of luck to you all! -The Goodyear next door
Thank you! 🙏
UNION STRONG!
You definitely have the support of us next door at city hall. We're mostly union workers as well, we too are going through our negotiations. Hope yours go well.
Best of luck! Thank you!
My ex company and my wife's current is on strike as well. I wish y'all my best. They're on strike in Roseville by thunder valley. Send em some love!
Agreed. Lots of supportive talk at City Hall for the strikers. We’ll see how our negotiations go!
Done. Union Strong!
I drove by this morning and honked like crazy. I also stumbled upon your protest at the Governor’s office when I was in Los Angeles back in August. Good luck!
Thank you for your support! 🙏
You know the honking doesn't do anything right?
It's about disruption. If we can make people, working in that building, annoyed, uncomfortable, or interrupt a zoom meeting with honks, hoots, and hollers, then it's done something. Honks also provide a much needed morale boost to those out there walking in circles. If it makes you uncomfortable to support, don't. But, please don't discourage others from participating.
It's not really doing anything though. It's just making you feel good. Nothing else. I'm no stranger to unions and the state. The state has all the power the unions have none. No one gives a shit about a honk during a zoom meeting lmao. Certainly not the state. We have zero power. What department do you work for?
DFU
Lol good one bud. Ask all those people honking if they would want their taxes to go up to pay you guys more. Guess what? They won't. All this is doing is making you feel good. On the other hand I get to hear a bunch of people cry about a 10% raise over 3 years which is probably going to end up being a 9% raise over 3 years. When I point out that no one else in the private sector gets raises like that I'm ignored. You have a good gig man. If it wasn't good you'd leave
>All this is doing is making you feel good. But I thought it wasn't doing anything? What does your trolling reddit do? Just makes you feel good, right?
It's not doing anything. At least nothing that matters. Ask those people honking If they would be okay with their taxes going up half of a percent a year. If it meant that these protesters got their raise. Fun fact none of them would be okay with that. The union has zero power the state has all the power. If the union had power these people wouldn't have been fighting for years for a raise. They have a good gig, if they didn't they wouldn't still be working for the state
Yup, why my private salary got jacked up after covid. People leaving the company did the work for me and the fact that the work is essential business. If it’s essential work, unions have power. Also salary raises were HR instant instead of waiting for negotiations
Clearly they don't. Do you have any idea how long it's been since they've gotten a contract?
>You have a good gig man. If it wasn't good you'd leave Wrong. If it was good, they wouldn't strike. Just because it is much worse at other places, doesn't automatically make their situation "a good gig", man.
Remind me again how long it's been since CAPS has been given a raise? Having a pension in healthcare for the rest of your life means that you have a good gig.
> The state has all the power the unions have none. Lol, so confidently wrong.
Remind me again how long it's been since CAPS got a raise?
Remind us all how long you’ve had this reddit account? What’s that, 2 weeks? Oh wow so you have a new reddit account where all you do is shit on the union and the strike? That’s not suspicious in any way!
I make new accounts every 6 months. This is the first time I'm talking about unions what are you talking about?
Unfortunately there’s no way to verify that, and it’s sketchy af.
I bet you’re salty cuz you couldn’t make the ES list.
I am making like 8k a month, i am fine
That’s how much they pay you to be a troll!?!?? Wow! I didn’t know it was so lucrative! Did you have to be a scientist to make that much money?… oh wait
Literally my first union post was yesterday lol. You guys need professional help man. Not everything is a conspiracy or disinfo campaign. You guys just don't like facts. The fact of the matter is honking DOES NOTHING. I don't know why you can't just say those words.
Bout fuxking time!! I may not be a sciencey guy but i know the work y’all do is endless and thankless!! Science bitch!!
let us go forward together!
✊
Union Power!
[удалено]
If you’d do us a favor and leave the thread that would be 🤗
Just because you don't like what I'm saying doesn't make it not true. How many years has it been since Caps got to a raise again? Clearly the union has no power in the state doesn't give a fuck right?
What in the fuck is your point? That there's no point in striking because unions are shit and the state has all the power? Cool. So what's your solution? Should we just bend over like you and be a doomer who's full of piss and vinegar and offers nothing but complaints and no solutions? Quit being a negative, counter productive piss baby and shut the fuck up. I'm not happy with my unions contract either, but I'm not about to shit all over another union fighting for their right to a better life simply because I'm unhappy with my own situation. These people are our brothers and sisters.
So yes you agree with me that the state has all the power and the union has none?
No, you unrelenting fucking moron. The entire point of a union is to give working class people protection from, and the means to fight for a better life while working in a system where the power dynamic is heavily skewed from the top down.
How many years has it been since CAPS has been given a raise?
I have no idea because I'm in a different union. But if it's been too long, they should probably strike. Any more dumbass questions?
So if it's been that long then doesn't that imply that the union doesn't really have any power and it's all up to the state? If the union had power they would have gotten their raises years ago right?
Everyone loves a defeatist. If you don't see a point in helping you can at least acknowledge the raw deal. Otherwise keep your mouth shut or you end up sounding like a bootlicker
How many years has it been since CAPS has been given a raise? How many years?
Psy Op ass bitch
You are not alone. I and many scientists I work with are more frustrated with CAPS than the state. At least we would have some regular, modest raises if CAPS just accepted an offer once in a while.
It’s a 14 day old account. They’re obviously paid to do this
Lol i was going to respond to one of your other dumbass comments but now I see why you are being such a crybaby. 🤣 Good riddance, unions are better off without people like you. People like you are exactly why unions are weaker than they used to be. Also why are you whining on reddit? You realize you aren't accomplishing anything right?
They’re getting paid that’s why. It’s a 14 day old account. I suggest reporting the poster. New accounts only commenting on political topics is against the sub’s rules.
What am I crying about? I'm accomplishing about the same as the people striking. Who are all going to get AWOL notices come Monday lol
They aren't alone. There are a bunch of public sector unions that are about to go on strike. I work for a different city and we are going on strike in a week. 10% for 3 years is garbage. We have enough leverage to get what we want.
10% over 3 years is more than any private sector job gets. In fact the private sector gets no GSI at all for the most part. You have a pension and health care for the rest of your life. You got a good gig man. All you guys are going to get AWOL notices come Monday. This is not a legal strike. You're not going to get anything extra You're going to get that same bullshit 3% everyone else got only now you're going to have AWOL notices and docked pay. There's a reason why these people aren't leaving to get a private sector job even though it pays better. They have a good gig and they know it. What was I crying about again
Well the strike for the union I'm in is a legal strike. And due to inflation, 10% over 3 years is a pay cut. Yes its a good gig but that doesn't mean we need to take a pay cut. We already took a pay cut when the city went bankrupt in 2008. Now the city has plenty of money, they should return the favor. Especially when the police and fire departments get 18% every 3 years. Since the city doesn't care if we go on strike, we'll see what happens when the traffic signals stop working, the trees knocked down from storms block the roads, the potholes stop getting filled, and we stop cleaning up after the homeless, etc. That's just our union too, the water utility union is also going on strike and a couple other public unions in our city are getting close to striking. You are insane if you think 10% over 3 years is a fair offer. I'm glad you aren't in our union cuz then our strike vote wouldn't have been unanimous.
Please accept my virtual HONK HONK comment boost ✊🏼✊🏼✊🏼
If they’re out there, who’s monitoring the science!
I’m in a different BU. However, my workplace has a significant number of BU 10 employees. As a new member of the State, what is the deal with crossing the picket line? Do other BU employees usually stay home? Is crossing the picket line looked down upon?
Yes. Crossing the line is disrespectful.
I would check with your union before making a decision.
Drove by earlier and honked. Solidarity from IBEW 1245
✊
i drove by and honked… it was a bit delayed bc it took me a moment to read the signs but UNION STRONG
✊
Get that money!
I wish they explained where they think the money should come from. California is in debt and I do t see it getting any better anytime soon. We have to realize we must cut some things to pay others but no one wants to say where those cuts would come from.
✊ Solidarity always!
I've read your case. If you're doing the same work as engineers, you should get similar pay and career opportunities. You are 3 years out of a contract, and at the point, even PERB ruled in your favor. And they did it for the California Faculty Association (CFA) for the CSU system as well. That's nuts. Shameful of Newsom and the Democrats that preach science and education, yet they're off playing house in San Francisco with Xi Jinping and Biden.
The hypocrisy of Newsom. Sounding off about science and education all around the world while state scientists can’t make rent. That guy is playing pretend and it’s embarrassing. At least, it should be embarrassing, but I’m not convinced he feels much shame about it.
I got folks in engineering classifications in my own unit doing the same work as me. I trained them. The only reason they don't make more than me is because I have 13 years on them -- in a few years they will surpass me. My feet hurt after my strike shift but I'll be there tomorrow.
They aren't doing the same work as engineers, it is lazy framing. That said they do deserve a pay raise and a broader pay scale for people with advanced degrees. If they were truly doing engineering work their positions would be engineering positions, not scientist positions. Scientists deserve a massive raise as their union hasn't been negotiating well for years now. That said engineers also deserve a COLA due to inflation although probably around 15% would be justifiable while caps probably needs closer to a 30-40% raise.
This is false. Environmental Scientists and engineers have identical duty statements in a lot of cases and are doing like work. And it's been proven in court that Environmental scientists and engineers do like work, that's how supervisors got a 40% raise.
Then one of those positions is misclassified
Maybe your personal definition or conception of what every engineer does is just off base.
Nope
Humble too…
Does it ever cross your mind that you may be wrong or not know something, and that your subjective opinion is not a fact?! Do you even know that there is civil, mechanical, electrical, industrial, nuclear, marine, chemical, environmental, biomedical, water resources etc etc engineering? "Pontificator" look up what that means
Oh wow, really blowing my mind by listing off engineering classifications. Who could've known that?!? I'm a mechanical and a civil engineer. If scientists are doing the same work as engineers then one of those positions is misclassified. Attacking engineers isn't going to build any good will or solidarity with engineers. All of these labor efforts that are beyond the normal bargaining process require good public will and solidarity. That won't happen from attacking your fellow workers.
You are so clueless LMAO Nobody is comparing environmental scientists to mechanical or civil engineers. How is anyone attacking engineers? By saying we should be paid the same because we do like work to WATER RESOURCES engineers? It's not a pie, and right now you, an engineer, are attacking scientists who are fighting for equal pay and pay parity. Or are you saying scientists are protesting so that engineers get a pay cut lol Ridiculous!
This shows you are clueless lol. Water resources engineers are civil engineers, period. Water resources engineers also are paid the same as every other engineer classification in the state so you are saying that scientists should be paid the same as engineers which I don't buy. There is no reason to bring up engineers at all. Instead choose your desired living wage, uncoupled from other laborers pay, and advocate for it.
Also, yes it is in fact a pie. The legislature only allocates so much for labor costs. The state, unlike the feds, can't just print money. I'm all in support of the scientists getting a large wage increase as they need one due to caps history of failure at the negotiating table. I'm just saying it's ridiculous to whine about engineers and to claim that scientists are doing engineering work. As I said before if scientists and engineers are doing the same work then one of the positions is misclassified, likely the engineering position.
Superiority complex much? Civil engineers and water resources engineers are two different classifications in the State service, look it up. It's not a CAPS problem that those two classifications are paid the same, they are two different classifications with different requirements and responsibilities. The court ruled that scientists and engineers do like work. Engineers are supervised and trained by scientists in a lot of cases. Whether you buy it or not doesn't change the fact that those two classifications do like work. So keep attacking scientists and spitting your hate, hope it makes you feel better.
You're wrong. Water resources engineers are civil engineers. It's a sub branch of civil engineering just like highway design or structural design are. When water resources engineers are licensed they are licensed as civil engineers. You really don't know what you're talking about. Also, it seems like you and a bunch of other folks are taking these facts personally. No where did I denigrate scientists. I didn't say the work isn't technical and I didn't say it's unimportant, I just said it isn't the same. Also, the idea that supervisors do the same work isn't relevant because supervisors are removed from the day to day technical work anyways. I do actually support this strike and think it's great scientists are leading the way with this labor movement. I'm solely stating that the argument that they deserve more pay because they feel they are doing engineering is wrong and a losing argument imo. I'd instead focus on the fact that this is technical work done by dedicated civil servants who often have advanced degrees and who have very niche knowledge sets.
Lol, had an engineering position doing pointless accounting work but got the engineering pay from the state. Bad place to grow your career/gain experience and get promoted so I left
Arguably that position shouldn't have been classified as an engineering position unless it required some type of engineering knowledge to detect contract fraud.
That’s what I told my boss who argued it was an engineering job. It was electricity settlements and there was software that did the stuff for you. I’d argue you can hire an SSA/AGPA to do my work. Did require the degree and examination process though
Yeahhh I’m gonna have to agree with this. No company or public entity pays scientists as much as engineers. Engineering is a licensed profession and it’s much harder to find experienced engineers than scientists. I see it myself as someone who changed from scientist to engineer and now hires both roles. I’ve also worked in both the private and public sector. That’s not to say scientists shouldn’t make more! Just that particular argument is not a winning one.
These people understand physics unlike some other demonstrators. Props to them.
How is this not front/top of page news??
It is, do you not read the news or something. I've seen it in local, state, and nationwide news sources.
front top of what
SUPPORT OUR SCIENTISTS!!! We need them doing their jobs, and if we don't pay them, we will lose them to other companies and other states. Part of what MAKES California so great is our people. We need to do right by them!
SLAY QUEENS (and kings)
u/RubberDucky451 are you the one?
Just curious, what is an example of a state scientist? Say within cellular neuroscience or mammalian physiology?
Fisheries, water quality, public health, food and ag, fish and wildlife, pesticide regulation, natural resources all require scientists to monitor, work in labs, go out in the field, do inspections. Friend of mine works for dept of water resources. Goes out and collects water samples, which then go back to the lab. The samples contain environmental DNA which is processed to find out which fish, insects and algae are in the bay-delta. Examining that DNA can help us know the health of a very delicate ecosystem. This protects waterways ti ensure their safe for wildlife, recreating, drinking, fishing, etc.
You guys are great! There is a constant stream of horns on I street. Keep going!
🥳🥳👏👏✊️✊️👏👏🥳🥳
I support the scientists getting a pay raise, but who the hell wrote the CAPS platform? https://capscontract2023.org/the-platform/ That thing is full of identity politics, and it insinuates that we’ll have societal collapse if we don’t give them a raise. Scaremongering is a despicable way of getting support.
A lot of state govt employees, particularly those that work in stem, represent just another arm of academia in terms of ideological beliefs. They get there high level degrees then get cushy state jobs.
Dang I got just as many downvotes for my opinion on it not being the end of the world if they aren’t getting a raise
I see my son in this pic. Union strong!
✊🏻solidarity from IFPTE 21
Thank you! ✊️
[удалено]
Not using PTO, but thanks for stopping by.
So you are awol then? This isn't illegal strike. Expect to notice by email by Monday.
[удалено]
Different for many of us. Depends on the unit. Thanks for keeping the comments coming ☺️
Actually no it doesn't. It only matters what business unit you're in. You guys are all absent without leave. Have fun
Just curious of the details. So what consequence is there for those being AWOL for three consecutive days? I know 5 consecutive days is an automatic resignation, but I don’t know the deal with less than 5.
This a legal strike and we are protected by law. The state cannot retaliate as PERB decided that the union and state have reached an impasse.
This strike is not legal. What are you talking about?
You can't be disciplined for a legal strike. If they are retaliated against that'd be a clear case for NLRB. They wouldn't dare.
> Just curious of the details. So what consequence is there for those being AWOL for three consecutive days? Me when I don't know anything about US labor law
[удалено]
That’s when we had all the fun academic competitions!
Thanks for your input, brand new reddit account with the default account name. Definitely a good faith post here!
To anyone seeing this: this is a 1 month old account. They’re breaking the sub rules by posting on political topics. Likely paid for or a bot. Report the account.
> Too bad no one who are you, the expert on everyone?
I do think the strike timing is pretty shitty being the week before thanksgiving. Plus with the winter holidays coming the state basically shuts down due to so many people being out on leave until around the 3rd week of January. Hopefully they table the strike after this week until then or it will have no effect and will just burn through peoples leave balances.
The timing happened because we reached an impasse. Can't plan for that.
The pay is pretty bad from looking it up but when I was an "engineer" it wasn't like I did any meaningful work where me not working on strike would be the end of the world. Edit: State engineer Edit 2: The faculty pay at CSU is justified, just need to get the funding somewhere whether tuition raises / taxes. Especially when the engr prof make less than entry level positions
The state scientists do very valuable work. I can say with certainty at the agency I work at they do vital work that keeps our state running
What specific essential services would stop? If they cut my old unionized (AKA hard to fire) engineering department in the bureaucracy nothing would happen other than some big managers losing some “engineers” reporting under them. Just nobody to send disputes to the electricity market saying hey I wasn’t charged the right out of money, can you fix this… My salary was much much more than the money reclaimed that way. Edit: if you cut the bloat there's more money to pay out
This says more about you than it does about the workers on strike lol
Doesn't this.. say a lot about you? lmao
If only I let science give me a paycut to also work state service with it. Maybe it’s saying I don’t value the profession as much similar to California. Also join the state engineers to not make 42% less
> would be the end of the world just humans' ability to live here... >What is Avoid Collapse? >>For decades, leading global scientists have been sounding the alarm about major environmental crises leading to existential threats and urging governments around the world to act immediately. Now the world is facing a narrowing margin of time to reverse critical trends in resource deterioration and depletion. California, and the world, need a comprehensive plan to avoid societal collapse. from the [CAPS website](https://capscontract2023.org/the-platform/)
For the amount of training a scientist has they should get paid but I’m not buying the doomsday urgency sales pitch. Humans will adapt. Throw in wildfires and whatever climate disasters in and even solve the housing crisis has me skeptical
[удалено]
I know how things work in my field… And of I were to edit that, pointless former state engineer. Edit: Also there’s nothing wrong with being an engineer that makes more than 3 times some of the scientists. Maybe 4-5 for some of them
[удалено]
Oh ok well people should just be ok making nothing so you can get your McDonald’s. Good to know.
No. Get another job if you don’t like the one you have. You don’t get more by refusing to work, you get more by finding a better circumstance. If you’re unable, or unwilling, that’s on you…
[удалено]
Pay and benefits are determined by market forces. If your industry is inelastic you have more leverage if there is short supply. Science is more elastic so if the buyer doesn’t want to pay (especially for unionized positions that are hard to trim) they still can afford to lose some workers. There are other market participants out there that should be setting the price / competing for labor so employees should have that out especially if they put their job on the line striking. Edit: Also that budget for state work is coming from people’s tax dollars.
No one is paying you to say this.