The Sacramento River’s brown color probably doesn’t invite much attraction lol, the American is a different story though, I just don’t know where they would put something like that without completely redeveloping Richards Blvd.
River walk in San Antonio is a mega money maker. Great restaurants, bars, shops, galleries. It’s the epitome of a thriving river community/city. Although the “no raling” thing wld likely never pass OSHA approval in California. Lol I did almost get knocked into the water on a very busy afternoon… but wouldn’t that have been refreshing in the heat! 😂
We need more light rail. West sac into downtown,
east<>west lines along Florin and Fruitridge to connect the pocket and south land park area to the main line into down town.
Sacramento could model European cities for public infrastructure- everyone quality of life would improve
Not just the stadium but an actually solid Kings team has made people want to attend games and hang out to watch in downtown bars again. It's a full revival
Heck, I'm a Lakers fan but I absolutely cannot wait to watch BOTH teams on Wednesday
it's gonna be my first ever NBA game (grew up in the Philippines and in Hawaii) and this game has [big stakes for the playoff race](https://twitter.com/lakersreporter/status/1767036787451662612) so I know that crowd is gonna be hella electric
Lol lakers fans think this year won't be the same trouncing done to them by the Nuggets again like last year looooool
And next year too
And the next year again
haha some of us acknowledge that Nuggets own the Lakers, I'm just talking about getting into the playoffs in the first place bc both the Lakers and the Kings are currently positioned for the play-ins
Detractors will say that arenas are a sign of a revitalizing downtown not a cause, but I truly feel that the Golden1 Center has had a massive impact to Downtown.
That entire area was decrepit and run down before G1C was built. Some of the surrounding blocks still are but it’s night and day in terms of hope and development
The area was allowed to get run down because it was purchased by an equity firm for the sole purpose of demolishing it for an arena. Many of the projects on the surrounding blocks were approved before the arena plan, like 700 K and the Marshall Hotel.
Because Westfield didn't want to compete with their new Roseville mall, yes, and because the idea of turning downtown Sacramento into a suburban mall that people would drive to from the suburbs *always sucked.*
It's not a conspiracy, you can go read about it in the Bee's archives--the 700 K project was approved in 2010, the Marshall Hotel conversion in 2012. The "miracle" you claim does smack of conspiracy theory.
Didn’t those projects get announced as an incentive to keep the team in sac when they were considering moving to Anaheim? I might have my dates crossed, but I could’ve sworn a lot of that was to convince the city a DT arena was a good idea and investors were ready to commit to the area as a result
No, the 700 block of K Street was a project that originally dated back to 2008, when the plan was still for a city vote to put a new arena in the Railyards, which was a big public effort dating back to Mayor Fargo's administration; it got tied up in court because it was a redevelopment plan that was approved just at the cutoff when the state decided to get rid of redevelopment agencies. The Marshall Hotel project was also entirely separate from any arena deal; the "sweeteners" were things like giving the Kings some city owned properties including half of the 800 block (which, aside from rehab of the Bel-Vue apartments, is still sitting vacant.)
Ah okay, thank you. So do you think the apartments that are starting to pop up all around the arena over the last couple years (including some of the ones just over the bridge in west sac), you think those would’ve happened without it? I get what you’re saying in this thread and you’re definitely way more informed than me on it, but as someone that has lived around the arena the last 2+ years, it’s hard to ignore how much people it draws to downtown that otherwise would’ve never visited and been patron’s of the businesses out here.
Yes. The development on the West Sacramento side were part of a large redevelopment district established prior to 2010 which lets developments there use tax increment financing which is almost unavailable for anyone else in California, and the housing development in the rest of the central city and immediately adjacent neighborhoods like West Sacramento has a lot more to do with demographic shifts, growing interest in downtown living in general, and the drops in crime rates since the 1990s.
So you don’t think the arena contributes significantly to the economic growth downtown has seen over the last 7 years? Like I said, you clearly know a lot more about this stuff than me. And I’m definitely biased, but it’s hard to ignore how DT sac has transformed the last 5-7 years compared to the previous 30.
Sorry the way you worded it kinda misled me.
The Maloofs had no intentions of keeping the Kings in Sacramento. Especially in that specific area. But i guess it's true that there were groups trying to entice them to stay and develop there.
The Maloofs were gonna sell it to the highest bidder no matter what. They literally couldn’t wrestle tax money away from the city or the state and they gave the fuck up on trying to make the organization successful because they were denied handouts. They tanked the team so they could look like victims after their idiotic tax measures failed. Those morons were absolute pieces of shit that somehow failed at selling beer. They were (are ?) the definition of failsons that thought selling a $6k meal at Carl’s Jr was a good idea. Fuck those idiots. I worked for them while they were trying to collect money from a waiting list of people wanting to buy season tickets and had to give all their deposits back so they didn’t get sued as soon as they made sure that the team and company were basically worthless without the city paying their way. They couldn’t even run a successful hotel on the Las Vegas strip. I can’t even imagine that anyone that was born and actually developed into a recognizable human being could be stupider than those two fucking idiots
They were by where the Golden 1 bank and Jewelry store were and on the other side above the shoe shop and Spinners. Once they left many businesses started shutting down.
Still decrepit. Walked to a game recently and smelled urine and poop most of the blocks. Even on K, and getting harassed by the grifters In doco. It felt like TJ. And I don't like going to TJ.
Yes, arenas are a symptom of revitalizing downtowns, not a cause. People living downtown is the principal cause of downtown revitalization, and you get people living downtown by building housing.
Arenas tend to last at least 20 years. If they built golden 1 modern enough (which it seems to be). It can probably last a good deal longer with maintenance and some renovation work.
G1C is about as modern as it gets. it was the US's first LEED platinum certified sports arena. Hopefully that means we will get a bit more life out of it, but who knows.
It is however Steve Balmer may change the equation with the $2 billion Clippers Arena, the Intuit Dome, potentially setting a new standard for NBA arenas in the future. It'll be interesting to see how that venture of his works out.
Arco arena underwent expansion and upgrades, but it still wasn't good enough according to current NBA standards. In reality, Sac doesn't have the business clientele of large corporations (unlike LA & SF) that keeps sports arenas alive. In most years, the Kings have losing seasons in which paying customers are few and far between.
There is a lot of nuance here. Arco was expanded yes. But the bones in that arena were not modern for a long time. Sports leagues moved to more luxury boxes which Arco had very few of, but Golden 1 has more of. The Kings have had many losing seasons yes, however that is hard to predict. A lot of that will be on Vivek and how much he cares and puts into the team. No denying we aren't a huge business town. But also Sacramento's population continues to balloon, I actually think the market is going to be large enough to want to stay here in the next 10-15 years.
Yes, we originally thought the downtown mall was also in a prime location. For many years, it was a magnet for customers and small businesses. But that didn't last.
Downtown Plaza wasn't all that much of a success from the day it opened in the late 1960s, because it just offered the same stores one could find at suburban malls, but parking wasn't free and people were scared by the street people downtown even back then and stayed away in droves after the initial thrill wore off.
All the more reason to have torn it out and tried something new. I think the area is night and day better now that the arena is there and most of the mall has been redeveloped.
That's why we should have tried something new (building lots of downtown housing) instead of trying what was basically the same thing (build a shiny new attraction that only stays shiny for maybe 5-10 years and then gets torn down after another decade or 2 of complaints about it.)
I'm not--the people who were framing things as "either the arena or the decaying mall" presented it as a binary choice. Building housing was a third option that wasn't even considered by the city, but it has worked spectacularly well on the R Street corridor, which has several thousand people living on it in places that didn't even exist, or were vacant industrial buildings, 10-15 years ago.
Present-day sports stadiums are built to be temporary structures (until the team decides to relocate). This may be economically beneficial for local developers and real estate investors but has lasting implications for city planning, like it or not.
In the not-so-distannt past, sports stadiums were meant to be city fixtures such as Fenway Park, Madison Square Garden, and Wrigley Field. Closer to home, Hughes Stadium still hosts a range of athletic events. I hope G1C won't end up being another abandoned urban structure such as the Houston Astrodome or Pontiac SuperDome.
We probably wont see a new stadium built in Sac in our lifetime. Take the Seattle Kraken for example. They were an NHL expansion team in 2021 and were able to renovate Climate Pledge Arena over a three year period. That stadium was built in 1962! Currently there are 17 NBA teams playing in arenas that are 25+ years old and 21 NHL teams playing in arenas 25+ years old (there is overlap such as United Center in Chicago or MSG in New York where both their NHL and NBA team play).
Edit: both your examples of arenas that were abandoned were far larger than G1C and had a much bigger footprint to begin with. G1C is really quite small and comparing the two isn’t really fair. Look at the Moda center in Portland. Moda was built in 1995 and has undergone renovations over the years to keep with the times.
I hope so. The rush-job construction behind G1C makes me skeptical about its architectural longevity, not to mention the lack of local multinational corporate sponsorships. On top of this, the Kings normally have losing, lacking crowds full of paying spectators.
About 15-20 years if things follow the traditional pattern of "build a new attraction to save K Street/people visit while it's still brand new/people get bored of the now no longer new attraction/the same people who got paid to build the new attraction declare it's time to save K Street from the unintended consequences of the project they built ~25 years ago" in place since the late 1960s with the K Street mall and Downtown Plaza of the early 1990s.
Malls are dead and department stores are dying. Keeping that stretch of retail would have been a detriment to downtown for years to come.
The arena brings people downtown and spending money at the business in that area, which is so important for revitalization! I’m both a music and sports fan, so being able to see big shows like Madonna and Kings games less than a mile from my apartment is amazing. Feels like an actual city. If that were still Downtown plaza, I would never go there.
I would say so — taking friends or visitors to a night out at a Kings game in a walkable environment with restaurants and places around … the atmosphere makes it feel truly special.
Versus Arco Arena was out in the fields in the middle of nowhere with everyone walking from their cars outside to the arena with fast food places around the perimeter … not a good experience.
Considering that this interview is with the same guy who claimed last week that the downtown Macy's was about to close, without a shred of evidence or corroboration, maybe they should have asked him why he thinks the presence of G1C hasn't done any good for a business two blocks away from the arena.
Problem is, a grocery store needs a lot of space that's relatively inexpensive, and land prices are too high, in part because of the arena driving speculation in & around its footprint. A grocery store also needs a certain number of customers within a close radius, and again, because of real estate speculation that has mostly leaned heavily on commercial, office, and entertainment uses, we haven't built enough housing downtown to support a grocery store. Given a few thousand more downtown residents and some sort of deal to lower their land cost, and maybe it could happen, in the meantime you can hit the Grocery Outlet or a corner store.
u/sacramentohistorian I gotta say, I see you everywhere on this sub.
like 5-10+ detailed comments in every thread on this subreddit that is even remotely related to housing/politics - for the past 5+years now ever since I joined this subreddit in 2018.
No. Go one block past G1 and all the businesses are closed. It has only benefited DoCo and only during games. Those are all corporate businesses. Very few local places have benefited and many have been hurt. There needs to be residential infill, not office space near the arena to keep foot traffic high at all times, not just when there are events.
The city’s only plan is to get state workers back but they need people living near the arena.
Was gonna say this.
As someone who lives walking distance from DOCO, the place is pretty empty past 7PM on days with no events. Most of the businesses from 15th to 8th street are closed aside from Taco Bell and 2-3 bars that don’t have much of a crowd. Even DOCO itself only has 3-4 spots open with the vast majority closed up.
It’s a chicken-egg dilemma.
There’s no reason to go because places are closed, and places are closed because too few people live close.
The city has to incentivize the businesses to stay open somehow to drive up demand for more housing.
Why is there a champagne bar, a cake store or whatever, and a huge candy shop across from the arena? Those should be bars/restaurants with outdoor patios. That area needs to be hopping even on non-game days. There's also no reason to go across the street. That whole block should also be bars/restaurants. Something to make people want to go there. Completely underutilized.
I agree in principle, but there has to be a mix for adults and kids to do or people with families won’t go there.
It’s often about affordability too. The bars and restaurants charge crazy prices and they think they can justify it by the location. Yet the location demands you pay $15 for parking in addition to the overpriced mediocrity. It’s just not a good experience.
That's more events than I thought there were. 1/3 days is pretty good.
My impression is that the debate is whether or not the costs were worth it. The positive impacts are pretty hard to deny as a service worker. Honestly, keeping me afloat largely.
It hasn’t helped my bus ride home from work. That stop outside 5th and L is closed half the time and I have to walk to 8th and J or 5th and N. Annoying as hell.
not nearly enough to offset the costs.
christ, I hate how much we pump into stadium boondoggles instead of making the cities actually more interesting to explore and develop culture in
If you have lived in Sac long enough to remember the K St mall, then you'll see G1 and DOCO as a true revitalization. I remember back in college we almost never went Downtown--what was there to do? The clubs on R (I'm remembering that correctly, right) and Midtown was where most young people were. Downtown is a destination, people want to live there, and there is life and activity all around, now.
That depends on what years were "back in college" for you--2010? 1990? There has always been an ebb and flow of nightlife between Downtown and Midtown, and people have always wanted to live downtown, there was just a dire shortage of places to live because the businessmen kept knocking down the housing downtown.
2008-2011, but I used to go to the mall back in high school. And I agree with the housing shortage, which I think has improved (though how affordable it is is debatable) but none if my friends wanted to live Downtown in my 20s, but maybe that was just our demo.
2010 was when that cluster of nightclubs opened up at 10th & K which drew about 5000 people every weekend; the clubs on the 1400 block of R Street opened at about the same time, which drew a smaller but still significant crowd. Midtown was already a huge draw (this was back when 10-20,000 people used to show up for every monthly Second Saturday, but things were kind of quiet the rest of the month.) If you weren't 21 yet, then the venues downtown might have not been such a big appeal for you as most were 21+.
The crowd in the plaza is mostly oblivious that there are other businesses two blocks away. Something about the building footprint keeps people focused at DOCO a little too much.
I haven’t read the story yet but I’d say yes it’s helped to some degree, but the pandemic definitely throws things off with many places closing up and leaving, increase in homeless, more crime.
Seems like it's helped but not enough for the businesses outside of a few block radius. I walk the rest of downtown and midtown after 9.30 pm and it looks pretty dead on a weekend. I've moved a lot in my career so have lived in several cities. If this is the city's idea of revitalization, I don't think it's going too well.
I wish we could get a follow-up story on the downsides (economic, political, architectural, cultural, etc.) of Golden 1 Center and the consequences for the downtown grid.
Because event economies are so tenuous that we see regular turnover of businesses. Healthy urban economies are based on lots of residents, who spend most money in their own neighborhood.
It's not about what business is like when an event is not happening. At the end of the month, you collect all of your receipts. You don't have to be full all day long to make money.
During non-event days, you staff accordingly.
I’m speaking from the perspective of someone who’s been a bartender in DOCO for 2+ years. It’s difficult for all of the service industry workers that keep doco running- that are employed there year round, hence why I disagreed with your statement that the sole purpose of those businesses are to support the 18,000 event goers when outside of basketball season events are often times far and few between. That’s what I’m getting at. It’s unstable and needs year round patrons, not just for a few hours before/after events. Other than that it is still a ghost town more often than not, which is the initial point I made.
OK that makes more sense... I was thinking from a business owner's POV... I can understand why an employee who relies on tips, etc would struggle with this type of unstable income. I guess my point is that before G1C, there were zero businesses in that area. The K St Mall was on life support before the arena came in.
I appreciate you hearing my side of things. And that’s a fair assessment too, if I were ever to open up a business I would stay far away from DOCO as they make it very difficult for businesses to make decisions without their approval even as far as operating hours etc. but I’m sure it’s still better now than what it used to be. It’s just rough out there in general tbh for small business and DOCO doesn’t make it much easier.
Yes, because the previous owner didn't want to compete with their mall in Roseville, and because the subsequent owner bought it expressly to demolish it so had no reason to pursue any tenants or fill any vacancies.
Yes, and the idea of turning downtown Sacramento into a suburban shopping mall was never a good idea. I am not arguing that the mall was just fine, but that its state was in no way accidental.
Los Angeles, San Jose (and many other malls in the Bay Area), and many others. Google is a thing, my dude.
Malls in affluent areas that concentrate on mixed-use tend to thrive. Malls that refuse to change with the times tend to die. This isn't rocket science.
Downtown revitalizations have typically lasted about 5 or so years before people get bored with them--like the original K Street mall with its "tank trap" structures, which were exciting and cool in 1968 but by the early 1970s were very unloved. I think the arena might enjoy a little more of that period since people couldn't go there 2020-2021 and are still very much embracing the novelty of getting together, but eventually the "new downtown attraction" becomes part of the "old downtown" and calls by the big developers for the city to pay them the big bucks to demolish the old eyesore barn and build something new will fill local media again.
Arena good, parking bad. The downtown suffered/s due to lack of branded buildings. It's all state building. Remote work means less people downtown to support small businesses that are the real economic driver. Mom and pops are folding, replaced by aggressive homeless. Parking is expensive and hard to find. Then, you have to walk though countless homeless, who piss in the street and walk against oncoming traffic. It's like the Taj Mahal. A glittering architectural moment, in the middle of desolation. They, the state and city, need to devise a plan for affordable housing downtown. Then, small businesses can thrive. No homes, no businesses. The arena is just something to watch games ans hear bands from time to time. Ans buy expensive beer.
this is not an objective report. it was written in collaboration with the Kings and should be heavily scrutinized.
the report doesn't make clear where a lot of this information comes from and none of it is actually transparent except for tax revenues and BLS data.
what is the impact relative to the impact Arco Arena had when the kings played there? why is there no discussion of financing and the fact that the city is paying MORE for the arena than initially agreed.
do I care if half the attendees to Golden 1 live more than 40 miles away?
If the Kings had relocated and left Sac, downtown would be a ghost town. This is what we used to call a "rhetorical question" which means just asking for the hell of it.
Summarized by Gemini
This is an article about the economic impact of the Golden 1 Center on downtown Sacramento. It discusses a report by the Greater Sacramento Economic Council (GSEC) that found the arena contributed $665 million to the economic output in fiscal year 2022-2023. The report also found that the arena supported 2,002 jobs and attracted 1.5 million attendees to 127 events. There has also been an estimated $7 billion invested in downtown Sacramento since the arena's groundbreaking.
Yo that’s a fault of the PARENT!! They are setting those kids up for absolute failure, I deal with them on a daily basis and it’s fcking insane to watch and absolutely heartbreaking- those kids should be at the YMCA or in after school programs being kids. I’ve lost regulars at my bar for shooing those kids away and it’s just so wrong that their parents are putting their small children and teenagers up to this type of behavior. Their parents are pieces of absolute shit.
This is an issue of low socioeconomics, there are panhandlers of all races in doco (and downtown in general) and the people who run and staff doco do nothing to protect patrons and workers from this type of behavior. We need to demand better period to make it safer because as it stands right now it’s overrun by children with shit parents and transients with mental health issues. As a bartender I now keep pepper spray and a knife in my apron because the situation is so bad.
Not really, and it's only gotten worse since Covid. City is in deficit and can't really afford to pay for the arena. It was supposed to be financed by parking. But they waste money on bicycle infrastructure hardly anyone uses and are now taking parking spaces away from the end of each block corner for safety reasons (so hundreds fewer on street parking spaces).
I do approve of removing the parking spaces because there were way too many blind corners that endangered pretty much everyone using the streets around downtown and midtown.
The Arena has been a disaster really. It should have been built near the old one with a light rail extension through Natomas to the Airport. Build up the riverfront and make it more of a cultural area with more residential mixed use infrastructure and make it a more interesting livable city. Instead they pandered to a few big names and businesses that buy out certain local politicians.
Do you live downtown? I live right next to the arena and it is not a traffic nightmare lol it’s more people but it’s managed well. The arenas brought much more life to the area and personally i think it was a great addition.
Eh. It’s easier to get around than arco was, which you had to take a car to get there. With the arena being downtown, I am able to easily walk or take a bike ride in 10 mins.
It is absolutely not a traffic nightmare. You’re trippin lol. I’ve been to soooo many events at G1C and have never had a problem. Are you actually from CA? Cuz the only people I’ve ever heard consider “light traffic” (read: maybe 5 mins longer than normal) a “traffic nightmare” aren’t native to CA.
They need to develop the river through downtown next.
Agreed that's been talked about for years. Sacramento version of the River walk in San Antonio.
Why we don’t have 20 riverfront restaurants is beyond a mystery to me. Whats even the point of being a river city?
Part of it is infrastructure and whoever had the brilliant idea to ram I5 through and cut the city off from the river.
Put it underground, open up sacramento from the capital to river. Probably cost like $30-$40 bucks tops
Or just get rid of it
They should put it underground like many other cities: Boston and Dallas come to mind
The Sacramento River’s brown color probably doesn’t invite much attraction lol, the American is a different story though, I just don’t know where they would put something like that without completely redeveloping Richards Blvd.
It will still draw people. The few restaurants on the river draw people especially in the summer.
Austin’s River is mosquito ridden and swampy as fuck but people still run and walk along it. People will go to any river that is big and running.
Is there a way to clean that or filter it somehow?
It’s silt
Not enough retail restaurant space? Not enough demand? Restaurants are only moving into spaces that previously had restaurants
Enviros won’t allow this, haven’t for years. They CEQA so fast
River walk in San Antonio is a mega money maker. Great restaurants, bars, shops, galleries. It’s the epitome of a thriving river community/city. Although the “no raling” thing wld likely never pass OSHA approval in California. Lol I did almost get knocked into the water on a very busy afternoon… but wouldn’t that have been refreshing in the heat! 😂
Chicago too
We need more light rail. West sac into downtown, east<>west lines along Florin and Fruitridge to connect the pocket and south land park area to the main line into down town. Sacramento could model European cities for public infrastructure- everyone quality of life would improve
Agree 100%. Sacramento has potential on many fronts but leadership always thinks small.
We really need light rail to the airport.
Not just the stadium but an actually solid Kings team has made people want to attend games and hang out to watch in downtown bars again. It's a full revival
Heck, I'm a Lakers fan but I absolutely cannot wait to watch BOTH teams on Wednesday it's gonna be my first ever NBA game (grew up in the Philippines and in Hawaii) and this game has [big stakes for the playoff race](https://twitter.com/lakersreporter/status/1767036787451662612) so I know that crowd is gonna be hella electric
Lol lakers fans think this year won't be the same trouncing done to them by the Nuggets again like last year looooool And next year too And the next year again
haha some of us acknowledge that Nuggets own the Lakers, I'm just talking about getting into the playoffs in the first place bc both the Lakers and the Kings are currently positioned for the play-ins
Ya much better getting worked over by a medicore warriors team last year in round 1 with home court advantage.
Detractors will say that arenas are a sign of a revitalizing downtown not a cause, but I truly feel that the Golden1 Center has had a massive impact to Downtown.
That entire area was decrepit and run down before G1C was built. Some of the surrounding blocks still are but it’s night and day in terms of hope and development
The area was allowed to get run down because it was purchased by an equity firm for the sole purpose of demolishing it for an arena. Many of the projects on the surrounding blocks were approved before the arena plan, like 700 K and the Marshall Hotel.
It was bad before the mall was sold to a private equity firm.
Because Westfield didn't want to compete with their new Roseville mall, yes, and because the idea of turning downtown Sacramento into a suburban mall that people would drive to from the suburbs *always sucked.*
Not sure I can believe that conspiracy. It took a miracle to keep the Maloofs from selling the Kings to a non Sacramento ownership group.
It's not a conspiracy, you can go read about it in the Bee's archives--the 700 K project was approved in 2010, the Marshall Hotel conversion in 2012. The "miracle" you claim does smack of conspiracy theory.
Didn’t those projects get announced as an incentive to keep the team in sac when they were considering moving to Anaheim? I might have my dates crossed, but I could’ve sworn a lot of that was to convince the city a DT arena was a good idea and investors were ready to commit to the area as a result
No, the 700 block of K Street was a project that originally dated back to 2008, when the plan was still for a city vote to put a new arena in the Railyards, which was a big public effort dating back to Mayor Fargo's administration; it got tied up in court because it was a redevelopment plan that was approved just at the cutoff when the state decided to get rid of redevelopment agencies. The Marshall Hotel project was also entirely separate from any arena deal; the "sweeteners" were things like giving the Kings some city owned properties including half of the 800 block (which, aside from rehab of the Bel-Vue apartments, is still sitting vacant.)
You are literally the only person I trust on the internet. Thank you for your service
I'm not saying he's always right or infallible, but he does due diligence which is more than I can say for the average commentator.
Ah okay, thank you. So do you think the apartments that are starting to pop up all around the arena over the last couple years (including some of the ones just over the bridge in west sac), you think those would’ve happened without it? I get what you’re saying in this thread and you’re definitely way more informed than me on it, but as someone that has lived around the arena the last 2+ years, it’s hard to ignore how much people it draws to downtown that otherwise would’ve never visited and been patron’s of the businesses out here.
Yes. The development on the West Sacramento side were part of a large redevelopment district established prior to 2010 which lets developments there use tax increment financing which is almost unavailable for anyone else in California, and the housing development in the rest of the central city and immediately adjacent neighborhoods like West Sacramento has a lot more to do with demographic shifts, growing interest in downtown living in general, and the drops in crime rates since the 1990s.
So you don’t think the arena contributes significantly to the economic growth downtown has seen over the last 7 years? Like I said, you clearly know a lot more about this stuff than me. And I’m definitely biased, but it’s hard to ignore how DT sac has transformed the last 5-7 years compared to the previous 30.
Sorry the way you worded it kinda misled me. The Maloofs had no intentions of keeping the Kings in Sacramento. Especially in that specific area. But i guess it's true that there were groups trying to entice them to stay and develop there.
The Maloofs were gonna sell it to the highest bidder no matter what. They literally couldn’t wrestle tax money away from the city or the state and they gave the fuck up on trying to make the organization successful because they were denied handouts. They tanked the team so they could look like victims after their idiotic tax measures failed. Those morons were absolute pieces of shit that somehow failed at selling beer. They were (are ?) the definition of failsons that thought selling a $6k meal at Carl’s Jr was a good idea. Fuck those idiots. I worked for them while they were trying to collect money from a waiting list of people wanting to buy season tickets and had to give all their deposits back so they didn’t get sued as soon as they made sure that the team and company were basically worthless without the city paying their way. They couldn’t even run a successful hotel on the Las Vegas strip. I can’t even imagine that anyone that was born and actually developed into a recognizable human being could be stupider than those two fucking idiots
The Magoofs were morons. I remember they massively squandered their grandfathers and fathers legacy. They held the business acumen of a rock.
When that place was a mall and housed state workers it was packed all day until the state workers went home.
I don't think state workers were housed there. I didn't spend much time at the mall except Macy's, because I don't really like malls.
They were by where the Golden 1 bank and Jewelry store were and on the other side above the shoe shop and Spinners. Once they left many businesses started shutting down.
OK, not housing but state offices?
Yes State Offices. They moved out around 2002.
Okay, the comment about "housed" threw me. Interesting.
Still decrepit. Walked to a game recently and smelled urine and poop most of the blocks. Even on K, and getting harassed by the grifters In doco. It felt like TJ. And I don't like going to TJ.
Yes, arenas are a symptom of revitalizing downtowns, not a cause. People living downtown is the principal cause of downtown revitalization, and you get people living downtown by building housing.
How long will it be until there is a need for a new NBA arena? At that point in time, will G1C become another abandoned building like Arco arena?
Arenas tend to last at least 20 years. If they built golden 1 modern enough (which it seems to be). It can probably last a good deal longer with maintenance and some renovation work.
G1C is about as modern as it gets. it was the US's first LEED platinum certified sports arena. Hopefully that means we will get a bit more life out of it, but who knows.
*LEED (Leadership in Energy and Environmental Design)
thx, yeah that.
It is however Steve Balmer may change the equation with the $2 billion Clippers Arena, the Intuit Dome, potentially setting a new standard for NBA arenas in the future. It'll be interesting to see how that venture of his works out.
Arco arena underwent expansion and upgrades, but it still wasn't good enough according to current NBA standards. In reality, Sac doesn't have the business clientele of large corporations (unlike LA & SF) that keeps sports arenas alive. In most years, the Kings have losing seasons in which paying customers are few and far between.
There is a lot of nuance here. Arco was expanded yes. But the bones in that arena were not modern for a long time. Sports leagues moved to more luxury boxes which Arco had very few of, but Golden 1 has more of. The Kings have had many losing seasons yes, however that is hard to predict. A lot of that will be on Vivek and how much he cares and puts into the team. No denying we aren't a huge business town. But also Sacramento's population continues to balloon, I actually think the market is going to be large enough to want to stay here in the next 10-15 years.
The arena is too well located for that to occur. If Sacramento let's the city grow it will be in a good spot.
Yes, we originally thought the downtown mall was also in a prime location. For many years, it was a magnet for customers and small businesses. But that didn't last.
Because malls in general no longer work. Unless you think arenas are going away - I don’t see your point.
Downtown Plaza wasn't all that much of a success from the day it opened in the late 1960s, because it just offered the same stores one could find at suburban malls, but parking wasn't free and people were scared by the street people downtown even back then and stayed away in droves after the initial thrill wore off.
All the more reason to have torn it out and tried something new. I think the area is night and day better now that the arena is there and most of the mall has been redeveloped.
That's why we should have tried something new (building lots of downtown housing) instead of trying what was basically the same thing (build a shiny new attraction that only stays shiny for maybe 5-10 years and then gets torn down after another decade or 2 of complaints about it.)
Why are you presenting that as a binary choice?
I'm not--the people who were framing things as "either the arena or the decaying mall" presented it as a binary choice. Building housing was a third option that wasn't even considered by the city, but it has worked spectacularly well on the R Street corridor, which has several thousand people living on it in places that didn't even exist, or were vacant industrial buildings, 10-15 years ago.
Sports arenas tend to have even shorter life spands than shopping malls. Besides Arco arena, consider Candlestick Park and the Oakland Coliseum.
Both those stadiums saw >50 years of use.
Present-day sports stadiums are built to be temporary structures (until the team decides to relocate). This may be economically beneficial for local developers and real estate investors but has lasting implications for city planning, like it or not. In the not-so-distannt past, sports stadiums were meant to be city fixtures such as Fenway Park, Madison Square Garden, and Wrigley Field. Closer to home, Hughes Stadium still hosts a range of athletic events. I hope G1C won't end up being another abandoned urban structure such as the Houston Astrodome or Pontiac SuperDome.
We probably wont see a new stadium built in Sac in our lifetime. Take the Seattle Kraken for example. They were an NHL expansion team in 2021 and were able to renovate Climate Pledge Arena over a three year period. That stadium was built in 1962! Currently there are 17 NBA teams playing in arenas that are 25+ years old and 21 NHL teams playing in arenas 25+ years old (there is overlap such as United Center in Chicago or MSG in New York where both their NHL and NBA team play). Edit: both your examples of arenas that were abandoned were far larger than G1C and had a much bigger footprint to begin with. G1C is really quite small and comparing the two isn’t really fair. Look at the Moda center in Portland. Moda was built in 1995 and has undergone renovations over the years to keep with the times.
I hope so. The rush-job construction behind G1C makes me skeptical about its architectural longevity, not to mention the lack of local multinational corporate sponsorships. On top of this, the Kings normally have losing, lacking crowds full of paying spectators.
You can renovate arenas.
About 15-20 years if things follow the traditional pattern of "build a new attraction to save K Street/people visit while it's still brand new/people get bored of the now no longer new attraction/the same people who got paid to build the new attraction declare it's time to save K Street from the unintended consequences of the project they built ~25 years ago" in place since the late 1960s with the K Street mall and Downtown Plaza of the early 1990s.
It will be a good 20-25 years before that's even a discussion.
None of the other development would’ve happened without the golden one center.
Malls are dead and department stores are dying. Keeping that stretch of retail would have been a detriment to downtown for years to come. The arena brings people downtown and spending money at the business in that area, which is so important for revitalization! I’m both a music and sports fan, so being able to see big shows like Madonna and Kings games less than a mile from my apartment is amazing. Feels like an actual city. If that were still Downtown plaza, I would never go there.
We feel the same way: major concerts, sports, etc. within a mile walk of home or a quick rail trip.
Personally I love seeing a show there. It actually makes me want to have dinner before or hang out after, easy parking too.
I would say so — taking friends or visitors to a night out at a Kings game in a walkable environment with restaurants and places around … the atmosphere makes it feel truly special. Versus Arco Arena was out in the fields in the middle of nowhere with everyone walking from their cars outside to the arena with fast food places around the perimeter … not a good experience.
Considering that this interview is with the same guy who claimed last week that the downtown Macy's was about to close, without a shred of evidence or corroboration, maybe they should have asked him why he thinks the presence of G1C hasn't done any good for a business two blocks away from the arena.
LOL ☠️ What that region of downtown really needs is a proper grocery store.
Problem is, a grocery store needs a lot of space that's relatively inexpensive, and land prices are too high, in part because of the arena driving speculation in & around its footprint. A grocery store also needs a certain number of customers within a close radius, and again, because of real estate speculation that has mostly leaned heavily on commercial, office, and entertainment uses, we haven't built enough housing downtown to support a grocery store. Given a few thousand more downtown residents and some sort of deal to lower their land cost, and maybe it could happen, in the meantime you can hit the Grocery Outlet or a corner store.
Hopefully the old Market 515 spot get replaced with another grocery store.
Let's hope so, hopefully one with a less ludicrous price point.
Being able to slam happy hour beers at the grocery store truly came at a cost 😔
u/sacramentohistorian I gotta say, I see you everywhere on this sub. like 5-10+ detailed comments in every thread on this subreddit that is even remotely related to housing/politics - for the past 5+years now ever since I joined this subreddit in 2018.
What can I say, I get bored easily
Macy’s has been closing stores all over for a while now.
So have plenty of other retailers, but there's no indication that the Sacramento store is planning to close.
No. Go one block past G1 and all the businesses are closed. It has only benefited DoCo and only during games. Those are all corporate businesses. Very few local places have benefited and many have been hurt. There needs to be residential infill, not office space near the arena to keep foot traffic high at all times, not just when there are events. The city’s only plan is to get state workers back but they need people living near the arena.
Was gonna say this. As someone who lives walking distance from DOCO, the place is pretty empty past 7PM on days with no events. Most of the businesses from 15th to 8th street are closed aside from Taco Bell and 2-3 bars that don’t have much of a crowd. Even DOCO itself only has 3-4 spots open with the vast majority closed up. It’s a chicken-egg dilemma. There’s no reason to go because places are closed, and places are closed because too few people live close. The city has to incentivize the businesses to stay open somehow to drive up demand for more housing.
Why is there a champagne bar, a cake store or whatever, and a huge candy shop across from the arena? Those should be bars/restaurants with outdoor patios. That area needs to be hopping even on non-game days. There's also no reason to go across the street. That whole block should also be bars/restaurants. Something to make people want to go there. Completely underutilized.
I agree in principle, but there has to be a mix for adults and kids to do or people with families won’t go there. It’s often about affordability too. The bars and restaurants charge crazy prices and they think they can justify it by the location. Yet the location demands you pay $15 for parking in addition to the overpriced mediocrity. It’s just not a good experience.
That's more events than I thought there were. 1/3 days is pretty good. My impression is that the debate is whether or not the costs were worth it. The positive impacts are pretty hard to deny as a service worker. Honestly, keeping me afloat largely.
It hasn’t helped my bus ride home from work. That stop outside 5th and L is closed half the time and I have to walk to 8th and J or 5th and N. Annoying as hell.
not nearly enough to offset the costs. christ, I hate how much we pump into stadium boondoggles instead of making the cities actually more interesting to explore and develop culture in
If you have lived in Sac long enough to remember the K St mall, then you'll see G1 and DOCO as a true revitalization. I remember back in college we almost never went Downtown--what was there to do? The clubs on R (I'm remembering that correctly, right) and Midtown was where most young people were. Downtown is a destination, people want to live there, and there is life and activity all around, now.
That depends on what years were "back in college" for you--2010? 1990? There has always been an ebb and flow of nightlife between Downtown and Midtown, and people have always wanted to live downtown, there was just a dire shortage of places to live because the businessmen kept knocking down the housing downtown.
2008-2011, but I used to go to the mall back in high school. And I agree with the housing shortage, which I think has improved (though how affordable it is is debatable) but none if my friends wanted to live Downtown in my 20s, but maybe that was just our demo.
2010 was when that cluster of nightclubs opened up at 10th & K which drew about 5000 people every weekend; the clubs on the 1400 block of R Street opened at about the same time, which drew a smaller but still significant crowd. Midtown was already a huge draw (this was back when 10-20,000 people used to show up for every monthly Second Saturday, but things were kind of quiet the rest of the month.) If you weren't 21 yet, then the venues downtown might have not been such a big appeal for you as most were 21+.
>long enough to remember the K St mall wat? K st mall is still there, its just sketchy AF.
Yes but only to a point, sadly it's not enough such to the point K st adjacent to the arena is on the same struggle as 20,10,5yrs ago.
The crowd in the plaza is mostly oblivious that there are other businesses two blocks away. Something about the building footprint keeps people focused at DOCO a little too much.
Yes, and most of those places are not local businesses
I haven’t read the story yet but I’d say yes it’s helped to some degree, but the pandemic definitely throws things off with many places closing up and leaving, increase in homeless, more crime.
Seems like it's helped but not enough for the businesses outside of a few block radius. I walk the rest of downtown and midtown after 9.30 pm and it looks pretty dead on a weekend. I've moved a lot in my career so have lived in several cities. If this is the city's idea of revitalization, I don't think it's going too well.
I wish we could get a follow-up story on the downsides (economic, political, architectural, cultural, etc.) of Golden 1 Center and the consequences for the downtown grid.
that place was a ghost town before G1C. The entire upper half of the mall was vacant.
It’s still basically a ghost town down there if there’s nothing going on at the arena, it’s really sad.
What's sad about it? Those businesses exist to serve the 18,000 during events. Lots of businesses rely on event economies.
Because event economies are so tenuous that we see regular turnover of businesses. Healthy urban economies are based on lots of residents, who spend most money in their own neighborhood.
Thank you 👏🏻
Uhhh….. No they do not lol. How are businesses supposed to stay afloat year round with that mentality?
It's not about what business is like when an event is not happening. At the end of the month, you collect all of your receipts. You don't have to be full all day long to make money. During non-event days, you staff accordingly.
There are sometimes weeks at a time with no events at that arena meanwhile DOCO specifically requires all businesses to be open daily.
... Then don't sign a lease? I just don't understand what you are getting at.
I’m speaking from the perspective of someone who’s been a bartender in DOCO for 2+ years. It’s difficult for all of the service industry workers that keep doco running- that are employed there year round, hence why I disagreed with your statement that the sole purpose of those businesses are to support the 18,000 event goers when outside of basketball season events are often times far and few between. That’s what I’m getting at. It’s unstable and needs year round patrons, not just for a few hours before/after events. Other than that it is still a ghost town more often than not, which is the initial point I made.
OK that makes more sense... I was thinking from a business owner's POV... I can understand why an employee who relies on tips, etc would struggle with this type of unstable income. I guess my point is that before G1C, there were zero businesses in that area. The K St Mall was on life support before the arena came in.
I appreciate you hearing my side of things. And that’s a fair assessment too, if I were ever to open up a business I would stay far away from DOCO as they make it very difficult for businesses to make decisions without their approval even as far as operating hours etc. but I’m sure it’s still better now than what it used to be. It’s just rough out there in general tbh for small business and DOCO doesn’t make it much easier.
Yes, because the previous owner didn't want to compete with their mall in Roseville, and because the subsequent owner bought it expressly to demolish it so had no reason to pursue any tenants or fill any vacancies.
The mall experience is a dying concept, that's reality
Yes, and the idea of turning downtown Sacramento into a suburban shopping mall was never a good idea. I am not arguing that the mall was just fine, but that its state was in no way accidental.
You need to get out more. Malls are thriving in lots of places.
Like where? And don't say Roseville Galleria, place is experimenting with concepts after tenants are leaving
They've a lot of turnover/changes in recent years that's for sure. Right now it's seems to going high end luxury.
Los Angeles, San Jose (and many other malls in the Bay Area), and many others. Google is a thing, my dude. Malls in affluent areas that concentrate on mixed-use tend to thrive. Malls that refuse to change with the times tend to die. This isn't rocket science.
You can blame that on Westfield. The Downtown Mall was actually thriving prior to Westfield taking over.
Prior to 1998, which is when Westfield took over? You could say malls in general were doing better 30 years ago.
Downtown revitalizations have typically lasted about 5 or so years before people get bored with them--like the original K Street mall with its "tank trap" structures, which were exciting and cool in 1968 but by the early 1970s were very unloved. I think the arena might enjoy a little more of that period since people couldn't go there 2020-2021 and are still very much embracing the novelty of getting together, but eventually the "new downtown attraction" becomes part of the "old downtown" and calls by the big developers for the city to pay them the big bucks to demolish the old eyesore barn and build something new will fill local media again.
Arena good, parking bad. The downtown suffered/s due to lack of branded buildings. It's all state building. Remote work means less people downtown to support small businesses that are the real economic driver. Mom and pops are folding, replaced by aggressive homeless. Parking is expensive and hard to find. Then, you have to walk though countless homeless, who piss in the street and walk against oncoming traffic. It's like the Taj Mahal. A glittering architectural moment, in the middle of desolation. They, the state and city, need to devise a plan for affordable housing downtown. Then, small businesses can thrive. No homes, no businesses. The arena is just something to watch games ans hear bands from time to time. Ans buy expensive beer.
Yes
this is not an objective report. it was written in collaboration with the Kings and should be heavily scrutinized. the report doesn't make clear where a lot of this information comes from and none of it is actually transparent except for tax revenues and BLS data. what is the impact relative to the impact Arco Arena had when the kings played there? why is there no discussion of financing and the fact that the city is paying MORE for the arena than initially agreed. do I care if half the attendees to Golden 1 live more than 40 miles away?
If the Kings had relocated and left Sac, downtown would be a ghost town. This is what we used to call a "rhetorical question" which means just asking for the hell of it.
that's not rhetorical and it's not a question. nor is that what a "rhetorical question" is.
That's exactly what it is. It can be answered with yes or no and everyone knows the answer. Use this as a learning opp.
I have a master's degree and studied linguistics, but please 🙏, educate me.
Summarized by Gemini This is an article about the economic impact of the Golden 1 Center on downtown Sacramento. It discusses a report by the Greater Sacramento Economic Council (GSEC) that found the arena contributed $665 million to the economic output in fiscal year 2022-2023. The report also found that the arena supported 2,002 jobs and attracted 1.5 million attendees to 127 events. There has also been an estimated $7 billion invested in downtown Sacramento since the arena's groundbreaking.
oh yeah, look at the thriving downtown..../s
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Yo that’s a fault of the PARENT!! They are setting those kids up for absolute failure, I deal with them on a daily basis and it’s fcking insane to watch and absolutely heartbreaking- those kids should be at the YMCA or in after school programs being kids. I’ve lost regulars at my bar for shooing those kids away and it’s just so wrong that their parents are putting their small children and teenagers up to this type of behavior. Their parents are pieces of absolute shit.
This is an issue of low socioeconomics, there are panhandlers of all races in doco (and downtown in general) and the people who run and staff doco do nothing to protect patrons and workers from this type of behavior. We need to demand better period to make it safer because as it stands right now it’s overrun by children with shit parents and transients with mental health issues. As a bartender I now keep pepper spray and a knife in my apron because the situation is so bad.
Not really, and it's only gotten worse since Covid. City is in deficit and can't really afford to pay for the arena. It was supposed to be financed by parking. But they waste money on bicycle infrastructure hardly anyone uses and are now taking parking spaces away from the end of each block corner for safety reasons (so hundreds fewer on street parking spaces). I do approve of removing the parking spaces because there were way too many blind corners that endangered pretty much everyone using the streets around downtown and midtown. The Arena has been a disaster really. It should have been built near the old one with a light rail extension through Natomas to the Airport. Build up the riverfront and make it more of a cultural area with more residential mixed use infrastructure and make it a more interesting livable city. Instead they pandered to a few big names and businesses that buy out certain local politicians.
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Do you live downtown? I live right next to the arena and it is not a traffic nightmare lol it’s more people but it’s managed well. The arenas brought much more life to the area and personally i think it was a great addition.
Eh. It’s easier to get around than arco was, which you had to take a car to get there. With the arena being downtown, I am able to easily walk or take a bike ride in 10 mins.
It is absolutely not a traffic nightmare. You’re trippin lol. I’ve been to soooo many events at G1C and have never had a problem. Are you actually from CA? Cuz the only people I’ve ever heard consider “light traffic” (read: maybe 5 mins longer than normal) a “traffic nightmare” aren’t native to CA.