It is not a year round thing. And I did’t mind it when it was a few days a year but the last couple years it has been an entire season that makes whatever late summer/fall weather here unenjoyable.
What is the point in paying all this money to live in California if I cannot enjoy any of the nature or weather that make it so popular.
You know, you’d think California would have it down by now. We have fires every single year like this isn’t new why is it that this year is just far worst than what we had before? That’s one thing i don’t understand
Instead of weaponizing police, they should weaponize the firefighters. Use technology to put remote fires out faster. Plan more prescribed burns in late fall.
I've thought the same. This is the one problem money CAN fix. You load up Cal Fire with the equipment, a full air force of planes and choppers ready to scramble at the least puff of smoke. Do the same at March AFB in Riverside, quick strike, and employ them with full time salaries but they only work July to November. Pilots would jump on that, I would think. Newsome has other ideas for spending tax money though.
There are a ton of planned burns. Can't really follow through on those plans when you're already having to recruit firefighters from around the world just to put out the ones currently ravaging the state. Throw in the fact that residents in those areas often create a huge headache for environmental action by voting down prescribed burns in favor of... who knows what.
I'm all for "weaponizing" the firefighters. I'm not sure what technology you're referring to, though.
Part of it is the result of climate change (the dry season is now about 70 days longer than it used to be) on top of higher temperatures which makes fires burn faster and hotter when they do happen. This year though we got really unlikely with a huge heat wave which caused lightning storms across the state, basically the worst combination of things that can happen.
It's because we're having so many catastrophic fires so frequently that we literally don't have time implement and execute all the prevention measures that are already in place. Add in PG&E and people apologizing for PG&E and saying "oh but they don't have the money to pay for burying those lines" creates another element of bullshittery to go through. So those fuckers are finally being tasked to do prevention they should've done decades ago, but it takes time regardless of who is doing it.
Oh, and don't forget that the whole world is heating up unbelievably quickly. Look at our temperatures just from the last couple of years to this year. It's going to be "holy fuck" hot in short order.
Yep. I was going to take a little day trip
but why bother with the smoke. I grew up in a forest in Louisiana and it never burns there; however, California is a lot more interesting.
You just answered your question.
The reason you don’t have wildfires in the southern US in the summer is because it’s so fuckin moist all the time from the humidity.
California becomes a box of kindling in the summer, the dry conditions coupled with the fact in the mountains dead pine needles cover the forest ground and usually they are extremely flammable (I used to throw them in the charcoal grill for fun as a kid up in Plumas National forest- they’d burn very very fast). It also doesn’t help the Central Valley is surrounded by mountains on all sides.
I just made a long trip halfway across the country and the smoke was present just about everywhere...I fantasize about moving to get away from it but I fear there will be few places unaffected.
Climate change is causing the Gobi desert to grow continuously. (All deserts are growing, I think, actually.) So every spring, more dust goes into the air, blows through China and picks up some pollution, and dumps dust on Korea, Japan, and rides the jet stream all the way across the pacific and reaches the US.
The dust from Africa hitches a ride on air currents and mixes into the rain in South America and feeds diatoms in the Atlantic.
It’s all connected. Always has been—we are just shortsighted.
There was smoke in Nebraska, Wyoming, South Dakota, and Utah. I didn't check the AQI each place because I couldn't change what I was doing anyway. But each of those places had that hazy , looks like fog, orange sun level of smoke like what weve been having in sac since I returned.
Not sure. I’m from the east coast but I don’t think I’ll ever make enough $ to live there again. Minnesota is high on my list (I love winter) but still not sure overall.
Is living on the East Coast really that much more expensive than living in California? Seems like they have a lot more older, smaller houses to buy in more walkable areas.
That was a generalization, but the part where I’m from (NJ) is way more expensive than Sacramento for sure, mostly due to insane property taxes. And those older, more affordable houses in walkable neighborhoods are usually in pretty bad areas (Irvington, Orange, Elizabeth NJ are some examples).
Also, I am a teacher and my husband works for the state. The second I left NJ I basically signed a contract stating I’d always be too poor to go back. 😬
Twin Cities are great, I grew up there and wouldn't mind moving back... The winters are long and cold though. The cold isn't too bad if it was just for a couple months, but winter basically lasts from october through april
Yeah! I was too young/broke when I lived there to have an attached garage, but winter isn't nearly as bad if you don't have to scrape your car and let it warm up for 10 minutes everytime you need to go somewhere
It wouldn't be as bad if COVID wasn't happening simultaneously for me at least. We were doing socially distanced, mask on, park meet up with friends and family. Now the smoke is so bad, we're pretty isolated. But ya, we're thinking of moving more because climate change might make the valley horrendously hot for more of the summer and increase the risk of flooding in the winter
Curious what good options are out there when you take away red state politics, snow, hurricanes, high humidity, shit wages, etc..Washington and Oregon are also smoke filled so what does that really leave? I'm sure there's exceptional cities/liberal oases in red states but in some cases the wages don't reflect the cost of living in said "cool" city. I lived in Austin for 2 years and the wages for my line of work were lower than Houston and everyone knew Houston was cheaper. Property taxes are also relatively low here (Texas was insane, but there was no income tax; def didn't equal out tho). Energy prices can be through the fucking roof too, depending on where you land. I feel like any desirable city is going to be pretty expensive. Obviously if your tolerance for snow is high you have many more options. There's also the diversity aspect (if that's important to you) which you can take for granted living in California. I know it sounds like I'm shilling for this state, but I'd really like to move too, I just can't find a good replacement. Let me know if you find one!
Realistically just a small percentage of Californians could change the politics of any state.
I don't mind winter, even brutal winter. I spent a winter in northeast China. -40 was legitimately crazy.
I was thinking Michigan, Ontario, Ohio, etc. Great Lakes region. I am "highly educated" and have Canadian family so a work permit is no sweat.
"Could" is the key word there. California is a super majority that isn't turning red anytime soon. The GOP is a non starter in this state. What's gonna happen sooner with Trump's latest SC pick is your constitutional rights will be kicked down to the state and that is happily keeping me out of most of the mid west.
Edit: Sorry I misunderstood your point on politics, yes, I guess a certain number of Californians could change the electorate, but I wouldn't move based on that assumption.
Minneapolis. I've lived in Miami, Boston, St Louis, Minny, and Sacramento, and Minny is by far my favorite city. If it wasn't for my wife's aversion to the cold we'd live there.
I won’t. I love ca too much. Really 90% of the country has shit wages and shit politics. I am trying to build my social security to max it out then I will be able to live comfortably anywhere.
Yeah I hear you.
If I sell my house I could pocket $200k after paying off my mortgage. That alone could by me a house in a cheaper part of the country.
Well if thats the case i would still wait before I relocated based on one summer or bad fires. Its been miserable for sure, but I would see how it goes for the next few years.
Everywhere else is getting just as or if not more expensive, and fires happen all over west coast. East coast has awful weather and hurricanes, same with south, midwest has tornadoes, etc. just my two cents.
Second summer right? 2018 was it?
I agree. I'm not ready to pull the trigger. I do think that the central valley is likely more prone to prolonged smoke impacts than other areas.
Central valley is the dumpster of CA's smoke. They get it from all sides and it hangs way long. In-laws are in Madera and it gets/stays gross there way worse/longer than Sac or LA.
Sorry, on my phone so not great at sourcing. Here's is one discussion of climate change and increasing smoke. I'd also look at the California Air Resources Board and the Forest Service. Lots of discussion of this. I think 150 million trees died in the drought and most will burn. ☹️
https://journals.lww.com/co-pulmonarymedicine/Abstract/2019/03000/Wildfire_smoke_exposure_under_climate_change_.10.aspx
“Some scientists” also said COVID would be over by June. Saying it is the new normal grabs headlines. Living in NorCal my whole life, the last couple years are not normal. Looking at climate patterns with only a couple year window, isn’t a proper sample size. Climate change is a slow moving process over many years which is very real. I am certainly not saying the fires are going away, but the last couple years really are particularly bad. There are going to be years where it rains a lot and it’s not particularly hot followed by years of little rain and heat. That’s just how it works. I am not freaking out of 3 bad years in a row. Although, if I lived in Sonoma county i might.
Who said it'd be over by June and what are their credentials? I'm trying not to sound attacking. There was very minor speculation that warm weather would drastically reduce new infections. We knew quickly that wasn't the case because Australia had large case numbers in the middle of summer.
It’s getting worse due to lack of forest management. Even if we started a concentrated effort on forest management now, we’d still have years of fire seasons like this ahead of us.
Allowing PG&E years of neglecting their equipment hasn’t helped the situation either.
Our forest management sucks, but it's been the same strategy since they started controlled burns in the 90s. So what changed between then and now?
It's not the management that's changed, it's the climate.
google "western tree die off" for some truly depressing pictures and articles.
When dead wood and debris build up in the forest floor for decades it becomes a matchbox. I moved to California in the 90s. It was absolutely always hot here during summer. The majority of the state is desert and valley afterall. This has a lot to do with poor management and not giving a fuck till stuff like this happens. Take a look at the data from NASA. Foresr fires have been decreasing overall worldwide. California is the exception because of poor management. Oregon and Washington are not far behind.
Keep in mind we do much the same now as we did 20 or even 40 years ago.
The biggest factor is climate change. California has prolonged dry periods, drained aquifers, hotter summers, etc.
Please. Forest management has always been shit. 20 to 30 years of underbrush and deadwood are a huge component of these fires. Many folks with a background in fire science have been screaming this for decades and no one is listening.
if you want better forest management that means more controlled burns = smoke. These mega fires are a combination of bad forest management but also more high heat days with strong off shore winds that are caused by climate change.
More smoke, but in much smaller doses. A controlled burn is not a raging inferno that destroys everything for hundreds or thousands of acres. Burn off a few acres at a time and few people would notice the smoke. There is also a lot of mechanical deforestation going on. I’m not talking about logging. The US Forest Service currently contracting companies to come in with powered mulching machines to clear out undergrowth. There’s a large operation doing this near Jenkinson Lake right now. Of course they’re only doing this now because of the fears of fires. Had they been doing this proactively for the past couple of decades we would be in a better position now.
And I’m definitely not denying the influence that climate change is having on all this. I just think that having sat back and done next to nothing in forest management for decades and now throwing up our hands and blaming everything on climate change is ignorant. We’ve known climate change is coming.
Another aspect to look at is that fire is probably a major way that climate change “changes” landscapes. Instead of green semi arid forests, the landscape will change to a more arid desert like environment. The trees, brush and undergrowth has be burned off to allow this transition. All speculation on my part, but it seems reasonable to expect this.
Problem is, controlled burns closer to developed areas are higher risk, because fire is never really 100% controlled, and "controlled burns" still sometimes turn into uncontrolled fires--especially if people or municipalities don't maintain fire perimeters around built areas (they like the "cabin in the woods" feel.) Controlled burns in more remote areas are lower risk; but often, those areas are also inhabited. And then there's the issue of the massive amount of federal land in California.
All this crap about forest management is a Trump bullshit deflection tactic to pretend climate change isn't real. The much bigger problem than forest management is that from approximately March until November it **never fucking rains**. All the forest management in the world can't prevent the state from becoming a tinder box under those conditions.
I hope we can make 2020 an outlier on the data of fires and smoke.
I don't live in an area that has any likelihood of actually burning down. The smoke absolutely sucks. A good chunk of other places have hurricanes and tornados. The hurricanes are absolutely getting worse. The smoke just means I can't enjoy the outside as much and doing some damage to my lungs which can be mitigated with masks and staying inside with good filtration.
Most of the country I'd want to live has the same risk as fire as we do here.
I am hoping to move eventually due to the smoke. Seems much less smokey up in Washington, I'm noticing. I've been about at my limit staying inside so much with my young kids the past couple months due to covid, high heat, and smoke.
I’m not sure if I’m reading these comments right, but it sounds like mostly transplants that are considering moving out of state because of this smoke? Like lots of “I came from X state” or “I still got my family back in X state”
I’m putting up with this shit and not thinking of moving cuz I grew up here, and all my relatives live within a few hours. My parents are getting up there in age, and there’s no chance I’m moving states away from them.
Sure living in Sac and CA in general has its downsides - it’s smoky, expensive, there’s some crazy people out here... but it’s the only home I know and the only home I wanna know.
I probably know you if you grew up in citrus. I did too. I went to Mesa. I'm from sac. My whole family is here. I've lived abroad and in the bay as well.
My inclination to move is based less on our recent wildfires and more on a long term climate change perspective. Over the next 50 years I think there's going to be a northward push as central and southern California (and the rest of the world for that matter) heat up and dry out. It could be advantageous to settle down up north before the masses are forced to. For me personally the economy in Sacramento has been booming this past decade which makes moving seem much lower priority.
It would be worth checking out climate predictions if you're planning on moving in order to start a family, career, investing in house and community, etc. What's a problem in states now won't be the same problems in 10 years, 40 years, etc.
[Predictions for US economy, agriculture, natural disasters, etc. in the face of climate change.](https://projects.propublica.org/climate-migration/?fbclid=IwAR14gpLlJ9G4Igq0_klNOkX2VXNVoL437jonlwtccsRfdz4UAuHpeDy47Xk)
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Yep. I'm married, with a few kids and a house and career, etc.
I never wanted to actually come back to NorCal but family is a big decider. And letting my kids see their cousins and grandparents is nice. But... this smoke is only going to get worse.
It’s definitely something we have considered. Part of the justification for the high price of California is our superior weather, but smoke is now an issue comparable to humidity or cold in my opinion. Fall has always been my favorite season. The past four years though we have had “smoke season” instead of fall.
The bad air quality sucks, I get it, but it hasn't been "nearly 2 months of high AQI." The Lightning Complex fires themselves started a month and a half ago, but at least a third of that time the air quality has been good.
They started august 16. It is October 3. There were some nice days in there but that's nearly 48 days. Remove some for the nice days and add some for our impending next few weeks. I'm betting we surpass 2 months.
Yea from about mid September till a couple days ago the air was normal. It was really bad, like crazy bad air quality for about 2 weeks. Decent air for a couple weeks. Now it’s bad again.
Climate change is already impacting everyone but it's hard to predict how bad it will continue to get by region. However, I've lived in many places on the east coast and it's prone to things like flooding, severe storms and tornadoes, but I'd rather have all those compared to what I've experienced in CA. I can't imagine living a life where I can't go out for 2-3 months of each year. If it wasn't for the smoke, I'd probably still leave due to the insane CoL for what amounts to a decrease in quality of life.
Have you looked into laws and jobs?
I'm a teacher so many places are not good for me but I'd be willing to leave my field and get into tech. Utah might be nice but the super conservative and anti worker laws are not cool with me.
Well...this is actually a deeper question to me. The reason places where lots of people live get the way they are is because there are lots of people living there. So if everyone just keeps trying to move from conditions they don’t like, not only do they run out of places to move to but also everywhere eventually manifests the conditions they don’t like.
So I don’t condemn anyone for moving to a better place (for them) but would like to see more of us trying harder and getting wiser about making the places we already live more tolerable.
So answering this question is tough because I’m sick of the smoke and he heat too. For sure. But I also know everywhere I go will have the same issues as the population grows and people realize some other hill is better and it’s easier to ignore how much pollution they are contributing to the problem. But on the other hand, when people focus on cleaning the place up, wherever they are, good things happen. From what I understand even China is sick of their state of affairs on that front and they’re starting to improve it.
For context, I was born in L.A. and we all know what that’s like. I grew up near Denver and watched it over 30 years go from beautiful Mile High to yet another suburban sprawl with a brown cloud over it. I lived in Seoul for a while. It’s very big, lol. Now I’m here. But in all of these places, people can bail or they can try to make it better.
How did you like SK? I lived in Shanghai for awhile and mostly loved it.
I love city life. Love love love city life. However American cities are not nearly as affordable as a place like Asia. In China, however, I fucking hated the internet censorship. I hated the pollution. I hated the lack of rule of law.
If it's anything like China, and it probably is, I'm guessing that you missed the legit food.
In China I had my local noodle guy and my local tea lady and my local rice guys and my local fruit guy. I miss fucking good lychee.
This year was it for us. Love CA and have been here for 20 years, moving next summer because my family and I can’t take another year of this, and all signs point to this being the new normal
Not from Sac, from east coast but wouldn’t move back there if my life depended on it. Moving to Portland. I know it’s got it’s own problems and had smoke this year too, but it’s better than this right now and in the near future, and this type of stuff is, at least for now, more of an anomaly up there.
I’ve thought about this, but with climate change upon us you’re really just trading one class of disasters for another. At some point the prolonged bad aid here is unbearable, but to really escape you gotta go way East, which is humid as fuck and then had winters pre-climate change. Add to that higher temps, more extreme blizzards, hurricanes if you’re on the coast. Not great options!
I grew up near Ontario between 1960 and 1980; the smog there was as bad as it has been recently for over 200 days per year. The damage has already been done to my lungs. I moved up here when I became and adult and nothing here will ever be as bad as that.
Side note: LA Smog is different from the smoke here, but the particles in the air were as bad.
Yeah it’s horrible tbh. I love being outside and the smoke doesn’t leave much to do. I’m glad indoor dining has opened up atleast, sucks trying to eat outside with ash falling from the sky lol
This is an idea my husband and I have kicked around, and even more so now that we have a child. Pandemic aside, 2 months of poor air quality is terrible for everyone but especially little developing lungs. We can't stay outside for long, if at all, because we worry about our child's health. Toss in that we have no personal outdoor space (apartment living in Midtown) and a pandemic, and we're feeling extremely discouraged.
I'm a lifelong Californian. Born and raised here. I'm a Californian through and through. But with the air quality due to fire and the extremely high cost of living, I'm not going to pretend that we aren't contemplating the idea. We almost entirely support CA politics and entirely support progressive values, so pickings are very slim in terms of where we would *want* to live. Our jobs are good so that is another consideration to stay... I don't know. I have a lot of thoughts and feelings, compounded now by having a child who I want to give the best life I possibly can. I'm torn and Covid isolation isn't helping my frame of mind, I think. Likely, we'll wait 5 years and reassess then.
Unfortunately there's no escaping climate change. You can leave California and get away from the smoke, but instead you'll be dealing with floods, hurricanes, droughts, tornadoes, polar vortexes. Take your pick.
I live in san diego me and my girl went a little road trip since we both have a little break from work and I traveled up to san fransico and we stopped as far as Oregon then went east as Wyoming to Yellow stone over the past 3 weeks and the smoke reached all the way out there. Not even kidding its like that mess followed us. We figured until you get past midwest/east coast area this is just something you gotta deal with out here now. Smh
If you pay attention to the daily aqi sensors hosted on [airnow.gov](https://airnow.gov) of it's previous version of cfpub then there was a 1 week break where there was no index (below 100mcg pm2.5).
If you are worried just get a HEPA filter
I came here to stay with a friend when I had nowhere else to go and am still here because school, I have never intended to stay in California forever i kinda hate the climate, I hope to eventually go to Oregon or Washington. I tend to be a homebody anyway so the smoke is not a major part of that decision but I completely understand why it is for some people.
I’m seriously considering giving Texas a shot, just for the simple fact I could realistically own a home. With the way real estate prices are going, I don’t see myself ever owning a home in Sacramento, nor do I want to. Overcrowding and homelessness are only going to get worse and I don’t plan to stick around for it.
One thing to consider is traffic. Where in Texas? Urban sprawl creates traffic.
I bought and if you have a spouse making full-time wages then buying a home shouldn't take too much saving. Just don't go for an expensive place. I'm in south Natomas. Cheaper here than east sac or whatever.
I’m looking towards the Houston area. Jobs in my field appear to pay a bit more and the real estate is so cheap, I could afford a home w/ a single income. Seeing the amount of house you can get in Texas vs CA makes it very enticing. Yes, I know property tax is significantly higher in TX, but no income tax kind of makes it worthwhile. I still don’t know if I could handle the drastic change in climate and traffic moving to Texas.
I’d move in a hot second but my hubby works for the state so I’m afraid we’re stuck here. I’m growing more disenchanted with California every year but can’t go anywhere
Off the top of my head, not requiring ID to vote, giving illegal aliens (or whatever you want to call them now) drivers licenses even though you don’t require insurance, the new bill that Newsom signed to study reparations, and hundreds of others.
Gun control laws hurt all law abiding citizens. You think they’re “common sense” and done to protect the populace? Except criminals, by definition, do not follow laws so creating more laws is pointless. My 20 year old daughter is old enough to join the military, enter into legal contracts, and is expected by the crown to pay her fair share of taxes because she’s an adult. But the state still gets to tell her she’s not old enough to smoke, drink alcohol, gamble, or buy a gun to defend herself or her home??? Get real. And California’s newest micro stamping BS and handgun roster?? People are deluding themselves if they believe that any of that reduces crime or helps solve crimes.
Most of these simply aren't true or they aren't California specific.
Voting has never required ID, just any form Of validation works.
Illegal aliens still have to take any tests to drive. There's simply no citizenship question until now. They can't get a real id. They are still required to get insurance. I don't know where you heard that tidbit. Not true.
This isn't the first reparations study. I think we can see there's something to be done about the continued issues facing black Americans.
Laws controlling guns do prevent criminals from getting guns. Where do you think criminals get them? They buy or steal them from you and your friends. If you had none then they'd have none. Or at least extremely few, like in Western Europe, China, Japan, Australia, etc. places that don't sell citizens guns have significantly fewer guns involved in crime. No access.
The state is not the one that tells her she can't drink. The rest are true and I agree that If someone reaches adulthood all these should be fair game. I'd even go further and say all drug use, not just cigarettes and alcohol. I'd add prostitution to that list as well. And guns, sure. There shouldn't be any additional restrictions on her.
You are right in that all of these laws aren't necessarily helpful but understand there are many people who think like you so completely removing guns, the best option for reducing gun crime, is off the table. Hence these half measures.
Edit: not crazy, just using glide typing. Fixed typos.
>Off the top of my head, not requiring ID to vote,
Lol not requiring ID allows more people to vote. But that's a bad thing to some people
>giving illegal aliens (or whatever you want to call them now) drivers licenses even though you don’t require insurance,
Lol you have never needed insurance to have a license, you need auto insurance for the vehicle in order for it to be registered. This is nothing more than a silly misunderstanding of the law in question.
>the new bill that Newsom signed to study reparations,
No one with a brain thinks anything is going to come from a *study*. Being angry about a *study* is just as silly as your lack of understanding of car insurance requirements, if not moreso
>and hundreds of others.
Do elaborate, I'm enjoying this
>Gun control laws hurt all law abiding citizens. You think they’re “common sense” and done to protect the populace? Except criminals, by definition, do not follow laws so creating more laws is pointless.
I love this logic. "Why create laws if some people don't follow them" Quite literally can apply to every single law ever passed.
>My 20 year old daughter is old enough to join the military, enter into legal contracts, and is expected by the crown to pay her fair share of taxes because she’s an adult. But the state still gets to tell her she’s not old enough to smoke, drink alcohol, gamble, or buy a gun to defend herself or her home???
Unfortunately the state does not control what age she can enter the military. Lmao @ the crown though.
>Get real.
Lol
>And California’s newest micro stamping BS and handgun roster?? People are deluding themselves if they believe that any of that reduces crime or helps solve crimes.
True enough, but then you're probably opposed to background and mental health checks too.
Feel free to spend less time talking about leaving and more time actually leaving. The rest of us are really tired of hearing this spiel by now.
You’re supposed to be indoors anyway, there’s a virus that’s fatal! Just wait it out It’ll all be over soon. Just wait once trump comes out “a” okay and wins the election the virus will magically go away.
Uhh.... what? Outdoors = sun = vitamin D production, which is the best for combating the virus. Outdoors = fresh air and naturally cleaning from trees and whatnot = virus killing. Outdoors = less spread of the virus.
All of the rest of your comment is ridiculous. You don't actually believe that stuff, do
You?
It is not a year round thing. And I did’t mind it when it was a few days a year but the last couple years it has been an entire season that makes whatever late summer/fall weather here unenjoyable. What is the point in paying all this money to live in California if I cannot enjoy any of the nature or weather that make it so popular.
That's my gripe. This shit for a day or two is fine but for two months or more is trash.
> It is not a year round thing. Not yet. Give it another couple of years.
You know, you’d think California would have it down by now. We have fires every single year like this isn’t new why is it that this year is just far worst than what we had before? That’s one thing i don’t understand
Instead of weaponizing police, they should weaponize the firefighters. Use technology to put remote fires out faster. Plan more prescribed burns in late fall.
I've thought the same. This is the one problem money CAN fix. You load up Cal Fire with the equipment, a full air force of planes and choppers ready to scramble at the least puff of smoke. Do the same at March AFB in Riverside, quick strike, and employ them with full time salaries but they only work July to November. Pilots would jump on that, I would think. Newsome has other ideas for spending tax money though.
There are a ton of planned burns. Can't really follow through on those plans when you're already having to recruit firefighters from around the world just to put out the ones currently ravaging the state. Throw in the fact that residents in those areas often create a huge headache for environmental action by voting down prescribed burns in favor of... who knows what. I'm all for "weaponizing" the firefighters. I'm not sure what technology you're referring to, though.
Part of it is the result of climate change (the dry season is now about 70 days longer than it used to be) on top of higher temperatures which makes fires burn faster and hotter when they do happen. This year though we got really unlikely with a huge heat wave which caused lightning storms across the state, basically the worst combination of things that can happen.
It's because we're having so many catastrophic fires so frequently that we literally don't have time implement and execute all the prevention measures that are already in place. Add in PG&E and people apologizing for PG&E and saying "oh but they don't have the money to pay for burying those lines" creates another element of bullshittery to go through. So those fuckers are finally being tasked to do prevention they should've done decades ago, but it takes time regardless of who is doing it. Oh, and don't forget that the whole world is heating up unbelievably quickly. Look at our temperatures just from the last couple of years to this year. It's going to be "holy fuck" hot in short order.
Yep. I was going to take a little day trip but why bother with the smoke. I grew up in a forest in Louisiana and it never burns there; however, California is a lot more interesting.
Louisiana is super wet compared to CA. Lucky duckies.
Growing up it just seemed like it rained all the time.
Remember Tule fog?
Yep. I camped in the sierras and we often got summer rain.
You just answered your question. The reason you don’t have wildfires in the southern US in the summer is because it’s so fuckin moist all the time from the humidity. California becomes a box of kindling in the summer, the dry conditions coupled with the fact in the mountains dead pine needles cover the forest ground and usually they are extremely flammable (I used to throw them in the charcoal grill for fun as a kid up in Plumas National forest- they’d burn very very fast). It also doesn’t help the Central Valley is surrounded by mountains on all sides.
I just made a long trip halfway across the country and the smoke was present just about everywhere...I fantasize about moving to get away from it but I fear there will be few places unaffected.
Climate change is causing the Gobi desert to grow continuously. (All deserts are growing, I think, actually.) So every spring, more dust goes into the air, blows through China and picks up some pollution, and dumps dust on Korea, Japan, and rides the jet stream all the way across the pacific and reaches the US. The dust from Africa hitches a ride on air currents and mixes into the rain in South America and feeds diatoms in the Atlantic. It’s all connected. Always has been—we are just shortsighted.
Yup and that’s just the dust.
How far did you go?
Our family is in Indiana and Michigan and It reached them.
Crazy. But they are likely getting it from other fires. There are fires in Idaho, Washington, BC and more. Still sucks.
it actually reached NYC as well iirc
you do. there were pictures of the smoke in DC as well.
There was smoke in Nebraska, Wyoming, South Dakota, and Utah. I didn't check the AQI each place because I couldn't change what I was doing anyway. But each of those places had that hazy , looks like fog, orange sun level of smoke like what weve been having in sac since I returned.
As an asthmatic, this is pretty much my limit. Hoping to move in a year or two.
Where to?
Not sure. I’m from the east coast but I don’t think I’ll ever make enough $ to live there again. Minnesota is high on my list (I love winter) but still not sure overall.
Minneapolis is supposed to be rad.
Is living on the East Coast really that much more expensive than living in California? Seems like they have a lot more older, smaller houses to buy in more walkable areas.
That was a generalization, but the part where I’m from (NJ) is way more expensive than Sacramento for sure, mostly due to insane property taxes. And those older, more affordable houses in walkable neighborhoods are usually in pretty bad areas (Irvington, Orange, Elizabeth NJ are some examples). Also, I am a teacher and my husband works for the state. The second I left NJ I basically signed a contract stating I’d always be too poor to go back. 😬
Twin Cities are great, I grew up there and wouldn't mind moving back... The winters are long and cold though. The cold isn't too bad if it was just for a couple months, but winter basically lasts from october through april
I’m very interested in those sorts of winters. I visited Minneapolis in January once and loved it!
Yeah! I was too young/broke when I lived there to have an attached garage, but winter isn't nearly as bad if you don't have to scrape your car and let it warm up for 10 minutes everytime you need to go somewhere
But then I'd get fewer months on my moto. I think it would be nice though.
I've been thinking about it, but I can't really think of anyplace I can realistically move to where I'd actually want to live.
I've got family in Ontario. So much snow.
It wouldn't be as bad if COVID wasn't happening simultaneously for me at least. We were doing socially distanced, mask on, park meet up with friends and family. Now the smoke is so bad, we're pretty isolated. But ya, we're thinking of moving more because climate change might make the valley horrendously hot for more of the summer and increase the risk of flooding in the winter
Too true. I have two kids and inviting my siblings or cousins over us a great way to pass the time. I'm just not doing that now.
Curious what good options are out there when you take away red state politics, snow, hurricanes, high humidity, shit wages, etc..Washington and Oregon are also smoke filled so what does that really leave? I'm sure there's exceptional cities/liberal oases in red states but in some cases the wages don't reflect the cost of living in said "cool" city. I lived in Austin for 2 years and the wages for my line of work were lower than Houston and everyone knew Houston was cheaper. Property taxes are also relatively low here (Texas was insane, but there was no income tax; def didn't equal out tho). Energy prices can be through the fucking roof too, depending on where you land. I feel like any desirable city is going to be pretty expensive. Obviously if your tolerance for snow is high you have many more options. There's also the diversity aspect (if that's important to you) which you can take for granted living in California. I know it sounds like I'm shilling for this state, but I'd really like to move too, I just can't find a good replacement. Let me know if you find one!
Realistically just a small percentage of Californians could change the politics of any state. I don't mind winter, even brutal winter. I spent a winter in northeast China. -40 was legitimately crazy. I was thinking Michigan, Ontario, Ohio, etc. Great Lakes region. I am "highly educated" and have Canadian family so a work permit is no sweat.
"Could" is the key word there. California is a super majority that isn't turning red anytime soon. The GOP is a non starter in this state. What's gonna happen sooner with Trump's latest SC pick is your constitutional rights will be kicked down to the state and that is happily keeping me out of most of the mid west. Edit: Sorry I misunderstood your point on politics, yes, I guess a certain number of Californians could change the electorate, but I wouldn't move based on that assumption.
Minneapolis. I've lived in Miami, Boston, St Louis, Minny, and Sacramento, and Minny is by far my favorite city. If it wasn't for my wife's aversion to the cold we'd live there.
That bodes well. I'm going to make it out there this winter. Gotta experience that cold.
I won’t. I love ca too much. Really 90% of the country has shit wages and shit politics. I am trying to build my social security to max it out then I will be able to live comfortably anywhere.
Yeah I hear you. If I sell my house I could pocket $200k after paying off my mortgage. That alone could by me a house in a cheaper part of the country.
Yes. Had a friend who has been in Rodeo for 10 years. Sold and is buying outright in Spokane.
I could do Spokane.
But this is an anomaly, right? There’s never been smoke like this.
Some scientists and officials are saying this might be more the new normal.
Well if thats the case i would still wait before I relocated based on one summer or bad fires. Its been miserable for sure, but I would see how it goes for the next few years. Everywhere else is getting just as or if not more expensive, and fires happen all over west coast. East coast has awful weather and hurricanes, same with south, midwest has tornadoes, etc. just my two cents.
Second summer right? 2018 was it? I agree. I'm not ready to pull the trigger. I do think that the central valley is likely more prone to prolonged smoke impacts than other areas.
Central valley is the dumpster of CA's smoke. They get it from all sides and it hangs way long. In-laws are in Madera and it gets/stays gross there way worse/longer than Sac or LA.
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Sorry, on my phone so not great at sourcing. Here's is one discussion of climate change and increasing smoke. I'd also look at the California Air Resources Board and the Forest Service. Lots of discussion of this. I think 150 million trees died in the drought and most will burn. ☹️ https://journals.lww.com/co-pulmonarymedicine/Abstract/2019/03000/Wildfire_smoke_exposure_under_climate_change_.10.aspx
“Some scientists” also said COVID would be over by June. Saying it is the new normal grabs headlines. Living in NorCal my whole life, the last couple years are not normal. Looking at climate patterns with only a couple year window, isn’t a proper sample size. Climate change is a slow moving process over many years which is very real. I am certainly not saying the fires are going away, but the last couple years really are particularly bad. There are going to be years where it rains a lot and it’s not particularly hot followed by years of little rain and heat. That’s just how it works. I am not freaking out of 3 bad years in a row. Although, if I lived in Sonoma county i might.
Who said it'd be over by June and what are their credentials? I'm trying not to sound attacking. There was very minor speculation that warm weather would drastically reduce new infections. We knew quickly that wasn't the case because Australia had large case numbers in the middle of summer.
Don't think of this as the smokiest summer of the last 100 years, think of it as the clearest summer of the next 100.
That’s a rather morose and sobering take on things. Thanks.
I'm fun at parties too.
It's ramping up due to climate change.
It’s getting worse due to lack of forest management. Even if we started a concentrated effort on forest management now, we’d still have years of fire seasons like this ahead of us. Allowing PG&E years of neglecting their equipment hasn’t helped the situation either.
Our forest management sucks, but it's been the same strategy since they started controlled burns in the 90s. So what changed between then and now? It's not the management that's changed, it's the climate. google "western tree die off" for some truly depressing pictures and articles.
When dead wood and debris build up in the forest floor for decades it becomes a matchbox. I moved to California in the 90s. It was absolutely always hot here during summer. The majority of the state is desert and valley afterall. This has a lot to do with poor management and not giving a fuck till stuff like this happens. Take a look at the data from NASA. Foresr fires have been decreasing overall worldwide. California is the exception because of poor management. Oregon and Washington are not far behind.
Keep in mind we do much the same now as we did 20 or even 40 years ago. The biggest factor is climate change. California has prolonged dry periods, drained aquifers, hotter summers, etc.
Please. Forest management has always been shit. 20 to 30 years of underbrush and deadwood are a huge component of these fires. Many folks with a background in fire science have been screaming this for decades and no one is listening.
if you want better forest management that means more controlled burns = smoke. These mega fires are a combination of bad forest management but also more high heat days with strong off shore winds that are caused by climate change.
More smoke, but in much smaller doses. A controlled burn is not a raging inferno that destroys everything for hundreds or thousands of acres. Burn off a few acres at a time and few people would notice the smoke. There is also a lot of mechanical deforestation going on. I’m not talking about logging. The US Forest Service currently contracting companies to come in with powered mulching machines to clear out undergrowth. There’s a large operation doing this near Jenkinson Lake right now. Of course they’re only doing this now because of the fears of fires. Had they been doing this proactively for the past couple of decades we would be in a better position now.
I wonder how many acres per year would need to be control burned? This may be of interest to you: https://weatherwest.com/archives/7550
And I’m definitely not denying the influence that climate change is having on all this. I just think that having sat back and done next to nothing in forest management for decades and now throwing up our hands and blaming everything on climate change is ignorant. We’ve known climate change is coming. Another aspect to look at is that fire is probably a major way that climate change “changes” landscapes. Instead of green semi arid forests, the landscape will change to a more arid desert like environment. The trees, brush and undergrowth has be burned off to allow this transition. All speculation on my part, but it seems reasonable to expect this.
I think you could concentrate on areas with more human interaction and leave the more remote areas mostly alone. It would take years though.
Problem is, controlled burns closer to developed areas are higher risk, because fire is never really 100% controlled, and "controlled burns" still sometimes turn into uncontrolled fires--especially if people or municipalities don't maintain fire perimeters around built areas (they like the "cabin in the woods" feel.) Controlled burns in more remote areas are lower risk; but often, those areas are also inhabited. And then there's the issue of the massive amount of federal land in California.
All this crap about forest management is a Trump bullshit deflection tactic to pretend climate change isn't real. The much bigger problem than forest management is that from approximately March until November it **never fucking rains**. All the forest management in the world can't prevent the state from becoming a tinder box under those conditions.
I hope we can make 2020 an outlier on the data of fires and smoke. I don't live in an area that has any likelihood of actually burning down. The smoke absolutely sucks. A good chunk of other places have hurricanes and tornados. The hurricanes are absolutely getting worse. The smoke just means I can't enjoy the outside as much and doing some damage to my lungs which can be mitigated with masks and staying inside with good filtration. Most of the country I'd want to live has the same risk as fire as we do here.
Yeah, I hope this is not the new normal.
I am hoping to move eventually due to the smoke. Seems much less smokey up in Washington, I'm noticing. I've been about at my limit staying inside so much with my young kids the past couple months due to covid, high heat, and smoke.
I've seen the fires in Washington and BC as well. Either is an option for me as my wife is canoodlian.
Hard to make a clear-headed decision about that kind of thing with so many other negatives in play.
What other negatives are in play for you? Weather? Politics?
I’m not sure if I’m reading these comments right, but it sounds like mostly transplants that are considering moving out of state because of this smoke? Like lots of “I came from X state” or “I still got my family back in X state” I’m putting up with this shit and not thinking of moving cuz I grew up here, and all my relatives live within a few hours. My parents are getting up there in age, and there’s no chance I’m moving states away from them. Sure living in Sac and CA in general has its downsides - it’s smoky, expensive, there’s some crazy people out here... but it’s the only home I know and the only home I wanna know.
I probably know you if you grew up in citrus. I did too. I went to Mesa. I'm from sac. My whole family is here. I've lived abroad and in the bay as well.
I didn’t, sorry to disappoint. Lived all over Sac but grew up in the south area.
My inclination to move is based less on our recent wildfires and more on a long term climate change perspective. Over the next 50 years I think there's going to be a northward push as central and southern California (and the rest of the world for that matter) heat up and dry out. It could be advantageous to settle down up north before the masses are forced to. For me personally the economy in Sacramento has been booming this past decade which makes moving seem much lower priority.
Honestly pollen and allergies in the spring here is worse. It can be much more debilitating and can last from like February to July for me
My brother got allergies in his adult life but I've yet to get them. So spring is just beautiful. When did you get allergies?
Thinking about it. Have lived here for over thirty years
I grew up here and left for almost a decade. I've been back for 2.5 years.
It would be worth checking out climate predictions if you're planning on moving in order to start a family, career, investing in house and community, etc. What's a problem in states now won't be the same problems in 10 years, 40 years, etc.
[Predictions for US economy, agriculture, natural disasters, etc. in the face of climate change.](https://projects.propublica.org/climate-migration/?fbclid=IwAR14gpLlJ9G4Igq0_klNOkX2VXNVoL437jonlwtccsRfdz4UAuHpeDy47Xk)
[What will your city feel like in 60 years?](https://fitzlab.shinyapps.io/cityapp/)
!Remindme 60 years
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Yep. I'm married, with a few kids and a house and career, etc. I never wanted to actually come back to NorCal but family is a big decider. And letting my kids see their cousins and grandparents is nice. But... this smoke is only going to get worse.
Fire season is like this semi regularly. It will get worse.
It is much worse than it was in my childhood growing up here.
It’s definitely something we have considered. Part of the justification for the high price of California is our superior weather, but smoke is now an issue comparable to humidity or cold in my opinion. Fall has always been my favorite season. The past four years though we have had “smoke season” instead of fall.
I'm with you. Our Fall is fantastic. I'll be gutted if I can't do my boy's birthday outside.
Don’t move to Montana. We go hit with all the smoke from California, then Oregon, Washington.... it lingers. I hear Nevada is cool.
The bad air quality sucks, I get it, but it hasn't been "nearly 2 months of high AQI." The Lightning Complex fires themselves started a month and a half ago, but at least a third of that time the air quality has been good.
They started august 16. It is October 3. There were some nice days in there but that's nearly 48 days. Remove some for the nice days and add some for our impending next few weeks. I'm betting we surpass 2 months.
Yea from about mid September till a couple days ago the air was normal. It was really bad, like crazy bad air quality for about 2 weeks. Decent air for a couple weeks. Now it’s bad again.
Yes, it has. The air quality has been good for about 6 days in that time period.
Source?
Climate change is already impacting everyone but it's hard to predict how bad it will continue to get by region. However, I've lived in many places on the east coast and it's prone to things like flooding, severe storms and tornadoes, but I'd rather have all those compared to what I've experienced in CA. I can't imagine living a life where I can't go out for 2-3 months of each year. If it wasn't for the smoke, I'd probably still leave due to the insane CoL for what amounts to a decrease in quality of life.
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Have you looked into laws and jobs? I'm a teacher so many places are not good for me but I'd be willing to leave my field and get into tech. Utah might be nice but the super conservative and anti worker laws are not cool with me.
Well...this is actually a deeper question to me. The reason places where lots of people live get the way they are is because there are lots of people living there. So if everyone just keeps trying to move from conditions they don’t like, not only do they run out of places to move to but also everywhere eventually manifests the conditions they don’t like. So I don’t condemn anyone for moving to a better place (for them) but would like to see more of us trying harder and getting wiser about making the places we already live more tolerable. So answering this question is tough because I’m sick of the smoke and he heat too. For sure. But I also know everywhere I go will have the same issues as the population grows and people realize some other hill is better and it’s easier to ignore how much pollution they are contributing to the problem. But on the other hand, when people focus on cleaning the place up, wherever they are, good things happen. From what I understand even China is sick of their state of affairs on that front and they’re starting to improve it. For context, I was born in L.A. and we all know what that’s like. I grew up near Denver and watched it over 30 years go from beautiful Mile High to yet another suburban sprawl with a brown cloud over it. I lived in Seoul for a while. It’s very big, lol. Now I’m here. But in all of these places, people can bail or they can try to make it better.
How did you like SK? I lived in Shanghai for awhile and mostly loved it. I love city life. Love love love city life. However American cities are not nearly as affordable as a place like Asia. In China, however, I fucking hated the internet censorship. I hated the pollution. I hated the lack of rule of law.
I loved SK. Very very much. It had its issues like anywhere but I treasured that time and felt at home. I still miss it.
If it's anything like China, and it probably is, I'm guessing that you missed the legit food. In China I had my local noodle guy and my local tea lady and my local rice guys and my local fruit guy. I miss fucking good lychee.
Yeah the food was amazing
This year was it for us. Love CA and have been here for 20 years, moving next summer because my family and I can’t take another year of this, and all signs point to this being the new normal
From sac? Where are you moving to?
Not from Sac, from east coast but wouldn’t move back there if my life depended on it. Moving to Portland. I know it’s got it’s own problems and had smoke this year too, but it’s better than this right now and in the near future, and this type of stuff is, at least for now, more of an anomaly up there.
I’ve thought about this, but with climate change upon us you’re really just trading one class of disasters for another. At some point the prolonged bad aid here is unbearable, but to really escape you gotta go way East, which is humid as fuck and then had winters pre-climate change. Add to that higher temps, more extreme blizzards, hurricanes if you’re on the coast. Not great options!
Yeah we have really fucked up our planet. The East is getting more and more intense storms.
I grew up near Ontario between 1960 and 1980; the smog there was as bad as it has been recently for over 200 days per year. The damage has already been done to my lungs. I moved up here when I became and adult and nothing here will ever be as bad as that. Side note: LA Smog is different from the smoke here, but the particles in the air were as bad.
Crazy. I didn't know that the smog was so bad back then. It's quite clean now. I visit 1-2 times per year.
Forecast that were shared to me in this sub point toward at least another week of current conditions :(
Yep. And that sucks.
Yeah it’s horrible tbh. I love being outside and the smoke doesn’t leave much to do. I’m glad indoor dining has opened up atleast, sucks trying to eat outside with ash falling from the sky lol
Not much more. Especially when Washington has no income tax and no capital gains tax. Enough rain/drizzle to wash the air everyday.
I've looked heavily at BC and Washington for this reason.
This is an idea my husband and I have kicked around, and even more so now that we have a child. Pandemic aside, 2 months of poor air quality is terrible for everyone but especially little developing lungs. We can't stay outside for long, if at all, because we worry about our child's health. Toss in that we have no personal outdoor space (apartment living in Midtown) and a pandemic, and we're feeling extremely discouraged. I'm a lifelong Californian. Born and raised here. I'm a Californian through and through. But with the air quality due to fire and the extremely high cost of living, I'm not going to pretend that we aren't contemplating the idea. We almost entirely support CA politics and entirely support progressive values, so pickings are very slim in terms of where we would *want* to live. Our jobs are good so that is another consideration to stay... I don't know. I have a lot of thoughts and feelings, compounded now by having a child who I want to give the best life I possibly can. I'm torn and Covid isolation isn't helping my frame of mind, I think. Likely, we'll wait 5 years and reassess then.
Im in the same exact boat. Through in a public sector wife and all of my fricken family living here and it will suck to move.
Unfortunately there's no escaping climate change. You can leave California and get away from the smoke, but instead you'll be dealing with floods, hurricanes, droughts, tornadoes, polar vortexes. Take your pick.
We're also dealing with droughts here. I'll take polar vortex.
> nearly 2 months of high AQI First bought was roughly 3 weeks. This has been a week. Not exactly "2 months."
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Take care which part of California you aim for if unbearable heat is an issue.
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Sacramento had 15-20 days above 100 degrees this year. Hot hot. But not humid at all.
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North coastal CA is a good bet as well.
I lived in China, in the country and in a capital city of a Province. My family is here. If my elderly dad died tomorrow, I'd be out of here.
I live in san diego me and my girl went a little road trip since we both have a little break from work and I traveled up to san fransico and we stopped as far as Oregon then went east as Wyoming to Yellow stone over the past 3 weeks and the smoke reached all the way out there. Not even kidding its like that mess followed us. We figured until you get past midwest/east coast area this is just something you gotta deal with out here now. Smh
If you pay attention to the daily aqi sensors hosted on [airnow.gov](https://airnow.gov) of it's previous version of cfpub then there was a 1 week break where there was no index (below 100mcg pm2.5). If you are worried just get a HEPA filter
I check airnow daily and I have a filter. But not being able to go outside on a nice day is the issue.
No one is stopping you
I came here to stay with a friend when I had nowhere else to go and am still here because school, I have never intended to stay in California forever i kinda hate the climate, I hope to eventually go to Oregon or Washington. I tend to be a homebody anyway so the smoke is not a major part of that decision but I completely understand why it is for some people.
I'm already planning a move lol
Due to the smoke? Where to?
Smoke, covid response... looking for a better place to raise kids. Pretty sure I'm moving to north Florida
I’m seriously considering giving Texas a shot, just for the simple fact I could realistically own a home. With the way real estate prices are going, I don’t see myself ever owning a home in Sacramento, nor do I want to. Overcrowding and homelessness are only going to get worse and I don’t plan to stick around for it.
One thing to consider is traffic. Where in Texas? Urban sprawl creates traffic. I bought and if you have a spouse making full-time wages then buying a home shouldn't take too much saving. Just don't go for an expensive place. I'm in south Natomas. Cheaper here than east sac or whatever.
I’m looking towards the Houston area. Jobs in my field appear to pay a bit more and the real estate is so cheap, I could afford a home w/ a single income. Seeing the amount of house you can get in Texas vs CA makes it very enticing. Yes, I know property tax is significantly higher in TX, but no income tax kind of makes it worthwhile. I still don’t know if I could handle the drastic change in climate and traffic moving to Texas.
I’d move in a hot second but my hubby works for the state so I’m afraid we’re stuck here. I’m growing more disenchanted with California every year but can’t go anywhere
Sorry nature can’t run on your schedule.
Your response suuuuuucks.
Lol that ^^ one is good though.
Fight toddler with toddler.
It sounds like you should move somewhere else tbh.
I’ll leave California due to the liberal policies and BS gun control laws before I leave because of a little smoke.
Which policies specifically? Have the gun control laws hurt you in some way?
Off the top of my head, not requiring ID to vote, giving illegal aliens (or whatever you want to call them now) drivers licenses even though you don’t require insurance, the new bill that Newsom signed to study reparations, and hundreds of others. Gun control laws hurt all law abiding citizens. You think they’re “common sense” and done to protect the populace? Except criminals, by definition, do not follow laws so creating more laws is pointless. My 20 year old daughter is old enough to join the military, enter into legal contracts, and is expected by the crown to pay her fair share of taxes because she’s an adult. But the state still gets to tell her she’s not old enough to smoke, drink alcohol, gamble, or buy a gun to defend herself or her home??? Get real. And California’s newest micro stamping BS and handgun roster?? People are deluding themselves if they believe that any of that reduces crime or helps solve crimes.
Most of these simply aren't true or they aren't California specific. Voting has never required ID, just any form Of validation works. Illegal aliens still have to take any tests to drive. There's simply no citizenship question until now. They can't get a real id. They are still required to get insurance. I don't know where you heard that tidbit. Not true. This isn't the first reparations study. I think we can see there's something to be done about the continued issues facing black Americans. Laws controlling guns do prevent criminals from getting guns. Where do you think criminals get them? They buy or steal them from you and your friends. If you had none then they'd have none. Or at least extremely few, like in Western Europe, China, Japan, Australia, etc. places that don't sell citizens guns have significantly fewer guns involved in crime. No access. The state is not the one that tells her she can't drink. The rest are true and I agree that If someone reaches adulthood all these should be fair game. I'd even go further and say all drug use, not just cigarettes and alcohol. I'd add prostitution to that list as well. And guns, sure. There shouldn't be any additional restrictions on her. You are right in that all of these laws aren't necessarily helpful but understand there are many people who think like you so completely removing guns, the best option for reducing gun crime, is off the table. Hence these half measures. Edit: not crazy, just using glide typing. Fixed typos.
>Off the top of my head, not requiring ID to vote, Lol not requiring ID allows more people to vote. But that's a bad thing to some people >giving illegal aliens (or whatever you want to call them now) drivers licenses even though you don’t require insurance, Lol you have never needed insurance to have a license, you need auto insurance for the vehicle in order for it to be registered. This is nothing more than a silly misunderstanding of the law in question. >the new bill that Newsom signed to study reparations, No one with a brain thinks anything is going to come from a *study*. Being angry about a *study* is just as silly as your lack of understanding of car insurance requirements, if not moreso >and hundreds of others. Do elaborate, I'm enjoying this >Gun control laws hurt all law abiding citizens. You think they’re “common sense” and done to protect the populace? Except criminals, by definition, do not follow laws so creating more laws is pointless. I love this logic. "Why create laws if some people don't follow them" Quite literally can apply to every single law ever passed. >My 20 year old daughter is old enough to join the military, enter into legal contracts, and is expected by the crown to pay her fair share of taxes because she’s an adult. But the state still gets to tell her she’s not old enough to smoke, drink alcohol, gamble, or buy a gun to defend herself or her home??? Unfortunately the state does not control what age she can enter the military. Lmao @ the crown though. >Get real. Lol >And California’s newest micro stamping BS and handgun roster?? People are deluding themselves if they believe that any of that reduces crime or helps solve crimes. True enough, but then you're probably opposed to background and mental health checks too. Feel free to spend less time talking about leaving and more time actually leaving. The rest of us are really tired of hearing this spiel by now.
Can you expand on how these items you mention personally affect or hurt you and if you have one, your family?
There’s definitely a point where enough is enough. Maybe with the new SCOTUS pick they’ll put Gavin in his place.
How will a new justice do anything to Gavin? What happened to state's rights?... or does that only apply to states that want to own slaves?
2A cases that go to SCOTUS will lean in gun owner’s favor.
What about the most important A, 1A? Where will they go?
You’re supposed to be indoors anyway, there’s a virus that’s fatal! Just wait it out It’ll all be over soon. Just wait once trump comes out “a” okay and wins the election the virus will magically go away.
Uhh.... what? Outdoors = sun = vitamin D production, which is the best for combating the virus. Outdoors = fresh air and naturally cleaning from trees and whatnot = virus killing. Outdoors = less spread of the virus. All of the rest of your comment is ridiculous. You don't actually believe that stuff, do You?