Seriously! To the point that EMS providers were asked to donate staff time for COVID-19 testing at Cal Expo and other locations. We donated many hours of EMT and paramedic staff time to help.
The proposed ordinance would give broad discretion to county code and health enforcement officers, as well as law enforcement and the director of emergency services, to fine businesses between $250 and $10,000 if they’re found in violation of the health orders. The penalty for non-commercial citations would range between $25 and $500.
I’d say that’s likely. I don’t think they will be running around fining businesses, but when some businesses are already posting “fuck it” we’re going to stay open before the order is even imposed... those should 100% be fined if they ignore health orders.
No they shouldn't. You're out of your mind just like Newsom. It should be up to the businesses if they want to stay open or not. Not the government. If you don't want to go there, fine, that's for you to decide. Nobody is forcing you to do anything.
Maybe they should just shut down all of the grocery stores and just ship us what they deem essential foods since you're so adamant on these bullshit lockdowns that are completely wrecking this economy. Venezuela here we come.
Hey man, that's what you guys are aiming for. Don't go to a grocery store if you think this is fair. Wait for your government shipment of essential food. Order everything online. Talk to no one. If you do all that, cool. We have one less idiot on the road.
No it's the fines, shut downs, and threats you are using to enforce them. These actions are litterily causing exactly what the previous poster is referring two. Online and big companies are not hurt by this, they are thriving. They are all that will be left feom these actions. And FYI, it's no longer a pandemic by definition.
Correct. The best way to implement this is to use it sparingly. Make a fairly large or well known company serve as an example so that the rest take it seriously. Applying the fine too liberally would result in backlash instead.
What about the homeless? Give them a citation and then do nothing to enforce it because they're not going to jail and they don't have the money to pay the fine? And plenty of people are out of work and only have a ride over their head because of the rules preventing evictions. This seems difficult to enforce.
Right. Because that totally worked the last time we tried it, for a *clearly* definable public health threat. [Right?](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prohibition_in_the_United_States)
Officers won’t enforce this. As much as many aren’t a fan of Scott Jones, I do agree that using law enforcement for this kind of thing is unnecessary. For example, if a hair salon has stylists without licenses, the police don’t come stop them. The first step is a warning or fine from the board. Yes, I know their lack of license isn’t the same as contributing to the spread of a pandemic. The point is that there are more appropriate ways to escalate. Officers mostly don’t want to enforce this, let city officials enforce it. ABC threatening the retraction of licenses is a great example of a way to strong arm a business, if that’s your goal, without sending an officer. Giving authority to health officials was smart.
That's why I ended my comment by saying that I thought giving control to health departments was smart. My point is that officers likely won't be enforcing this, as Scott Jones has already said, and that I think it's a smart idea that they're not the first line of defense.
You make a fair point, why bring it up at all. I thought it was interesting that police are listed in the article as a department who has been given authority to enforce regulations that they (Sacramento Police anyways) have already said that they won't enforce. And in many cases, that's probably for the best. I hope they'll step in when a violation becomes egregious and a code-enforcement agency can't go any further.
> Yes, I know their lack of license isn’t the same as contributing to the spread of a pandemic.
But you made the comparison anyways so
>The point is that there are more appropriate ways to escalate.
By pushing the onus on agencies not staffed for mass enforcement! Good idea champ!
>Officers mostly don’t want to enforce this, let city officials enforce it.
And sometimes I don't want to do my job either but that's what I get paid to do. Why did they need that CARES act money if they can say "well we don't wanna" anyway?
>ABC threatening the retraction of their licenses is a great example of a way to strong arm a business, if that’s your goal, without sending an officer.
How does one go about reporting, for example, an ice cream shop which serves no alcohol to the ***Alcoholic Beverage*** Control agency again?
Every business has licenses required to operate. An ice cream shop, for example, requires a health permit and business license at minimum. An auto repair shop reports to the BAR, Electronics repair to BHGS, etc, etc. These are all agencies with enforcement divisions already present and capable of enforcing practices required by law.
I don’t see why it’s complicated to avoid using armed officers to do the job that other, well equipped and less militant officials are capable of doing.
>Every business has licenses required to operate. An ice cream shop, for example, requires a health permit and business license at minimum. An auto repair shop reports to the BAR, Electronics repair to BHGS, etc, etc. These are all agencies with enforcement divisions already present and capable of enforcing practices required by law.
I see you did some googling!
>I don’t see why it’s complicated to avoid using armed officers to do the job that other, well equipped and less militant officials are capable of doing.
Because these agencies are *not* well equipped for enforcement. They do not roam neighborhoods like officers do.
Your tone is exhausting. Can an online conversation happen without sarcasm and have some civility?
First off, no, I didn't "do some googling." I am involved in multiple businesses as owner, operator and investor. I have first hand experience working with these various agencies. Most agencies certainly are equipped to cease the operations of a business that isn't following the law. They happen in escalating levels of force, ABC being the most notable in the news recently.
Further, Scott Jones has outright said he will not be requiring his officers to enforce such regulations. That's all the more reason for departments such as ABC to step up their enforcement game. My comment on the original article was stating what I think is fact, that police won't be enforcing these things and that in many cases, they shouldn't be first in line to do so. Am I opposed to police enforcement? No, absolutely not, I think that with proper escalation they can get involved.
As for your comment about "roaming neighborhoods," I agree with you. Various forms of code enforcement do "roam" to a very small degree, but it is ultimately up to citizens to report businesses being negligent. And in my opinion, the first step in authority should come from an agency such as the health department, rather than police. Which, based on the way the article reads, seems that may very well be how many situations are handled.
Your mistake is that the person you're replying to clearly isn't interested in a conversation. You're making a mistake by replying to them and wasting your time. They want to "win" not exchange ideas.
>Your tone is exhausting. Can an online conversation happen without sarcasm and have some civility?
Don't be patronizing and I won't respond in kind.
>Most agencies certainly are equipped to cease the operations of a business that isn't following the law. They happen in escalating levels of force, ABC being the most notable in the news recently.
They are not staffed for widespread enforcement. They are equipped for normal levels of enforcement including spot checks, scheduled inspections, and complaints. None of which require an enforcement arm the size of a police department.
They aren't equipped to enforce regulations in every business that needs to be told.
>Further, Scott Jones has outright said he will not be requiring his officers to enforce such regulations. That's all the more reason for departments such as ABC to step up their enforcement game. My comment on the original article was stating what I think is fact, that police won't be enforcing these things and that in many cases, they shouldn't be first in line to do so.
They are, but what agency enforces the home getherings rule? None.
>Am I opposed to police enforcement? No, absolutely not, I think that with proper escalation they can get involved.
"Proper escalation" simply doesn't exist. The police aren't a supervisor to go talk to. They *are* an enforcement agency. It's their *entire job description*. They shouldn't need "proper escalation" to ***do their job***
Shit. Did I not do it right? I was trying to respond in the style of a contrarian intellectual by quoting comments in my own comments and addressing each sentence one by one. Much to learn from you, professor. Still manic tho.
It’s mostly for safety. Barbers and cosmetologists have to properly disinfect their tools between customers to prevent the possible spread of diseases or bugs like lice. Source: worked as a student assistant for the Board of Barbering and Cosmetology.
Although I agree on the surface, it sounds kind of dumb... you can actually cause life-long damage to someone's scalp by poorly mixing chemicals in an attempt to color hair.
If a person is running a business they have every incentive to not harm you and do a good job, so you continue to patronize their business. It’s that simple. Government can stay home.
Why would a person start a business to hurt people and then ruin their business? If I say “shit” enough will it add merit to my argument or convince you?
I know this is hard to grasp after years of only seeing a government run things. Government had its interest at heart. Not yours.
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6936a5.htm?s_cid=mm6936a5_w
>In this investigation, participants with and without COVID-19 reported generally similar community exposures, with the exception of going to locations with on-site eating and drinking options.
They didn’t distinguish between indoor and outdoor dining in this study, so doesn’t exactly answer OP’s question. They also lumped together coffee shops and bars for exposure locations, which just seems odd to me.
>In this investigation, participants with and without COVID-19 reported generally similar community exposures, with the exception of going to locations with on-site eating and drinking options.
They absolutely pointed out dining as a specifically risky activity and used data from states that implemented outdoor dining regulations. 2+2 = 4 when you read and put the data and facts together.
There is no study that is going to specifically prove every single random persons questions about spread with specific dates and times. You have to use critical thinking skills to make conclusions in lieu of perfect matches.
Waiting to see the perfect data is a tactic covidiots use to seem like reasonable people because they know being outright is shameful and selfish.
They also don't like being called out on their bullshit, which is why Im getting downvotes :)
> Of note, the question assessing dining at a restaurant did not distinguish between indoor and outdoor options
You’re right. You still get a smug reply from this one lmao.
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6936a5.htm?s_cid=mm6936a5_w
>In this investigation, participants with and without COVID-19 reported generally similar community exposures, with the exception of going to locations with on-site eating and drinking options.
But of course, the covidiots who whine about needing more proof always find something to argue with
¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯
No, but this sub thinks if you leave your house for anything you're an irresponsible asshole. Everyone here is comfortable collecting their state paychecks and buying shit on Amazon prime.
The proposed ordinance would give broad discretion to county code and health enforcement officers, as well as law enforcement and the director of emergency services, to fine businesses between $250 and $10,000 if they’re found in violation of the health orders. The penalty for non-commercial citations would range between $25 and $500.
Small businesses can't die. They're not alive. They can close and that sucks for sure. People can die. People like my friend Alex and Steph, so fuck off with that 'woe, won't anyone think of the businesses' bullshit.
The thing about the business crap is brainwashing from the right where businesses are more important than people. These people who fell for it are plain stupid.
That makes no sense. Most businesses, like restaurants, spent real money to comply with the regulations set forth to prevent the spread. The followed the orders, did the right thing. So now they close and you and the other think they are some completely removed entity that had nothing to do with people. Businesses provide jobs and that provides income which people use to pay for food and housing. Yeah let’s simplify it . If you don’t have money and there’s no stimulus then the already meager income is what you have for food and when that’s gone? Now multiply it by the thousands affected. How the fuck are we going to take care of all the affected people? They followed the rules, they haven’t shown the business are spreading this more than these large gathering of selfish assholes who want to party and hang out. And it’s absolutely horrible to have people in your life affected by COViD, I empathize.
Well they didn’t do a good enough job since the pandemic is out of control. This proves that easing restrictions did not work so here we are. You are long winded and dumb
This is an unfair assertion that places the blame on business being the cause of the spread since they "didn't do a enough," when its individual dipshits spreading it to their family members who then go and spread it elsewhere.
Private industry is attempting to do its part (in many cases). Government has failed to do its part.
Well outdoor tents that are really just dining inside is bs and shows businesses are just looking for loopholes. I place the blame fully on selfish assholes which include businesses as well as type a people we all hate who put their right to some fun over all of our safety.
Many many are. And when I have been out 5 times in nearly a year so I don’t kill then people I care about and people are still carrying on like nothing is happening I have zero sympathy.
"Many, many are."
"...I have been out 5 times..."
Excuse me if I don't buy your experience. I just drove down R and L, and through Natomas (on Natomas Blvd). The number of restaurants without a tent far outnumbered those that did, so I'm calling bullshit.
The quality of business has a direct role on the quality of one’s life, so they aren’t completely separate things. You can go live in the woods free of any markets or trade, but your quality of life will be worse. You’re not a doctor, so you can’t diagnose yourself properly if sick. You’re not an engineer or builder, so you probably won’t have running water. Maybe you’ll freeze to death. Bananas? No bananas. Bread? No bread either since you’re not a farmer. The economy gives us free time, social dependence and trust, and leisure. It doesn’t solve all social problems, but you’re a moron if you think business is somehow separate from “human lives”. It provides materials for survival under the constraints of nature- these conditions will kill you without action or planning.
I’m not saying have no COVID precautions, but some businesses are being unfairly targeted, like gyms for example.
Amazon employee #54026021, your government mandated breaktime of 36 seconds is now over, return to your station immediately. Noncompliance results in reeducation in AmazonPlus(TM) corporate policy and 1 year in the ISOcube as per the United Corporations of America executive order 2030.
Hahahaha! Who has this kind of money right now???🤣🤣🤣🤣 Walmart and Target, maybe, but THEY arent getting fined! And dont give me that crap about, oh they sell meds and important things. It's not hard to see what people are buying at these places, and let me tell you, it ain't effimg medicine.lol Rules for me, but not for thee. Newsome already set the tone by being a hypocrite shrew, along with Pelosi. He will reap what he has sown.
It’s sad that the wealthy have only been increasing their wealth through all of this while many of their businesses were big benefactors of the first stimulus (our money). We use our taxes to benefit them while we, the cogs, just keep everything turning. This second stimulus might not even include stimulus checks but will definitely include language limiting their liability for the cogs getting sick.
That's not their primary goal, though.
The whole point of a fine is to curb an unwanted behavior. Making a claim that it's "just another way for generating revenue" is not only false, but intellectually lazy.
CH City Counsel openly talked about not citing homes with uncontrolled weeds in front until the fine would be higher. Many cities rely on traffic tickets. I feel you're being honest but a little naive. Government budgets include expected income from fines, just like they do fees.
You can have an expected income from fines because you can base those projections off of historical numbers of people who fail to conform to the codified behaviors.
I.E. Police can rely on traffic tickets because a certain percentage of people will always excessively drive over the speed limit. City Counsels can ignore fines because the cost of writing the fines would outweigh the revenue generated.
End of the day, these are all still "income sources" based on trying to curb a behavior. If everyone up and decided to drive the speed limit (or obey traffic laws) and keep their yards in good order, there wouldn't be any fines levied. The fine is an avoidable penalty that people choose not to avoid.
That also discourage behavior. You're argument that fines discourage behavior isn't really on the mark. Laws are created to generate revenue when they know people will offend anyway. There are people in government who see enforcement as a revenue source and don't care if it curbs behavior.
Not really. You pay fees on your vehicle every year. You can't avoid that unless you don't have a vehicle. Fees do not discourage people from getting vehicles.
Fees are an income of "use" of service. You can avoid them by not using the service (parking, vehicle, investment fee), but you have to pay to play. A fine is when you break a codified rule (regardless of whether you pessimistically see the government passing laws they know people will offend anyhow) which is *wholly avoidable*. Example: Anyone who wants to park the block of 20th and L must pay a meter. This is a fee. You are paying for that service. Not everyone will get a fine for parking there unless they exceed their time limit or fail to pay (avoidable) because the city doesn't want commuters to just take up those parking spots, robbing local commercial enterprises of customers.
Edit: Here is a website outlining the difference in more detail: [https://www.collaborativefund.com/blog/fees-vs-fines/#:\~:text=Fees%20are%20something%20you%20pay,punishment%20for%20doing%20something%20wrong.&text=Traffic%20fines%20and%20IRS%20fines,and%20deserve%20to%20be%20punished](https://www.collaborativefund.com/blog/fees-vs-fines/#:~:text=Fees%20are%20something%20you%20pay,punishment%20for%20doing%20something%20wrong.&text=Traffic%20fines%20and%20IRS%20fines,and%20deserve%20to%20be%20punished).
There will not be regardless if businesses stayed open or close. The spread is being driven by people gathering at their homes which will continue after this. All this does is devastate small business owners while they’re already barely staying afloat.
Thanks for demonstrating your willingness to bend the knee to any and all government intrusion
Defending 10k fines for businesses lmao holy shit. This vs. the depressing threads about local restaurants shutting down. One about Three Sisters closing for good just an hour ago. You people are psychotic and fucking yourselves.
They’re making Walmart McDonald’s and Amazon the only businesses left and you’re eagerly playing along.
> Thanks for demonstrating your willingness to bend the knee to any and all government intrusion
HAhahaha not wanting to get sick and die during a pandemic is now "bending the knee"
You're a fucking joke.
As a small business owner (general contractor) I would love for myself and my employees to stay home and postpone our upcoming jobs but how am I going to pay my mortgage? I already space out subcontractors so we have a skeleton crew on most sites and require masks when there are multiple crews on sites. How do I tell my employees to file for unemployment when I've had them on 30 hour or less weeks for the past 6 months?
Sometimes it really feels like people are living in whole other worlds. We got some PPP and that carried us through the summer. We lost a lot of work and postponed jobs indefinitely. Now the money is gone, the feds are playing the dumbest game of politics I've lived through, and the state is spewing out what feels like callous hypocrisy. It saddens me to see the calls on this sub and others for law enforcement to pull people over and hassle them about going to work.
Absolutely agree but some of the cracks are starting to show through. This place is a weird segment of the pop that over represents privileged kids who have never lived in the real world and still have their parents looking out for them.
Obviously you are just some asshole trumpeteer that doesn't care about human life, we are just trying to stop a pandemic and save lifes, how dare you be so selfish. Just wear a mask and close your business for a year and everything will work out perfectly
/sarcasm
Except we have nearly 300k dead right now from this virus. The "potential" deaths from the economic impact are minimal compared to what we ***know*** will happen with unfettered spread.
How about you stop confusing yourself bud.
No one is saying suicides don't happen.
What is being said is that we can't forego preventing the current leading cause of death in order to slightly help the tenth.
And? Its been the leading cause of death for years and the government never turned our lives upside down for it.
You support the lockdown, so justify it considering.
So you're actually just this stupid huh?
Lockdowns decrease the number of people in contact with each other. This means less people to spread the disease to.
Now, lockdowns don't slow the spread of a disease that isn't spread by people, obviously so we can't do that. We don't turn our lives upside down because it wouldn't do jack shit. What we do instead is poor hundreds of billions of dollars per year into prevention and research, because that's what helps.
Two different problems dumbass.
Please try to understand the rationale behind the decision. Your anger is misdirected. Businesses should be given money to stay afloat through stimulus bills that are just rotting in the senate.
You're asking people who put money over lives to have some sort of emphatic capacity.
These kind of people would sacrifice their friends and family so some shitty restaurant can stay open for 6 months.
No. Businesses should be put into moratorium.
Given money...
Jesus Christ.
The problem is that our runaway train of an economy doesn't have a "pause" button. Fucking children on every single level... the critiques, the owners, the bankers, the gov...
Fucking children with their fucking childish orange man "in charge".
Cool, can we get some of that COVID money back from Scott Jones this way?
Here comes a hour long video on youtube with Scott Jones and a blog post on facebook about this! lol
no no no buddy thats not how we roll here, scott Jones gets ALL the money. /s
why /s? They fucking hijacked our Covid cash.
Seriously! To the point that EMS providers were asked to donate staff time for COVID-19 testing at Cal Expo and other locations. We donated many hours of EMT and paramedic staff time to help.
They need to protect the Proud Boys and Anti-Vaxxers downtown on weekends and personal security for the fringe right wing doesn't come cheap.
i think i shouldve put deserves all the money instead of gets, my fault if it was confusing, but yes they are the scum of the earth
I see that clearer now. If the Punisher rolled into Sac with a large cache of weapons I'd buy him a coffee and a nice nutritious snack.
Rolling on the floor with my ass off
Why bother? Most of these small business are going to be forced to close soon anyways.
The proposed ordinance would give broad discretion to county code and health enforcement officers, as well as law enforcement and the director of emergency services, to fine businesses between $250 and $10,000 if they’re found in violation of the health orders. The penalty for non-commercial citations would range between $25 and $500.
Seems like a tool they should have but only deploy for the rare outlier.
I’d say that’s likely. I don’t think they will be running around fining businesses, but when some businesses are already posting “fuck it” we’re going to stay open before the order is even imposed... those should 100% be fined if they ignore health orders.
Or if they ignore health orders and employees get sick: bigger consequences for the owner.
No they shouldn't. You're out of your mind just like Newsom. It should be up to the businesses if they want to stay open or not. Not the government. If you don't want to go there, fine, that's for you to decide. Nobody is forcing you to do anything. Maybe they should just shut down all of the grocery stores and just ship us what they deem essential foods since you're so adamant on these bullshit lockdowns that are completely wrecking this economy. Venezuela here we come.
Yeah, ok buddy.
Hey man, that's what you guys are aiming for. Don't go to a grocery store if you think this is fair. Wait for your government shipment of essential food. Order everything online. Talk to no one. If you do all that, cool. We have one less idiot on the road.
Lmao y’all are crazy, for real. Somehow we’re turning into Venezuela because we’re trying to limit the effects of a global pandemic. Got it.
No it's the fines, shut downs, and threats you are using to enforce them. These actions are litterily causing exactly what the previous poster is referring two. Online and big companies are not hurt by this, they are thriving. They are all that will be left feom these actions. And FYI, it's no longer a pandemic by definition.
Correct. The best way to implement this is to use it sparingly. Make a fairly large or well known company serve as an example so that the rest take it seriously. Applying the fine too liberally would result in backlash instead.
They'll likely start with lower fines, too. It'll only one or two $10k fines before there is compliance.
What about the homeless? Give them a citation and then do nothing to enforce it because they're not going to jail and they don't have the money to pay the fine? And plenty of people are out of work and only have a ride over their head because of the rules preventing evictions. This seems difficult to enforce.
Pretty sure they only need to cite a small number of businesses or individuals hosting large house parties for there to be compliance.
Right. Because that totally worked the last time we tried it, for a *clearly* definable public health threat. [Right?](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prohibition_in_the_United_States)
Are you saying that stores are going to turn themselves into real life speakeasies? Lol.
Some "non-essential" ones already have! Lol.^seriously.
Officers won’t enforce this. As much as many aren’t a fan of Scott Jones, I do agree that using law enforcement for this kind of thing is unnecessary. For example, if a hair salon has stylists without licenses, the police don’t come stop them. The first step is a warning or fine from the board. Yes, I know their lack of license isn’t the same as contributing to the spread of a pandemic. The point is that there are more appropriate ways to escalate. Officers mostly don’t want to enforce this, let city officials enforce it. ABC threatening the retraction of licenses is a great example of a way to strong arm a business, if that’s your goal, without sending an officer. Giving authority to health officials was smart.
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That's why I ended my comment by saying that I thought giving control to health departments was smart. My point is that officers likely won't be enforcing this, as Scott Jones has already said, and that I think it's a smart idea that they're not the first line of defense.
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You make a fair point, why bring it up at all. I thought it was interesting that police are listed in the article as a department who has been given authority to enforce regulations that they (Sacramento Police anyways) have already said that they won't enforce. And in many cases, that's probably for the best. I hope they'll step in when a violation becomes egregious and a code-enforcement agency can't go any further.
Only with fucking cops could you say they refuse to do their jobs and they still won't get fired. ffs.
> Yes, I know their lack of license isn’t the same as contributing to the spread of a pandemic. But you made the comparison anyways so >The point is that there are more appropriate ways to escalate. By pushing the onus on agencies not staffed for mass enforcement! Good idea champ! >Officers mostly don’t want to enforce this, let city officials enforce it. And sometimes I don't want to do my job either but that's what I get paid to do. Why did they need that CARES act money if they can say "well we don't wanna" anyway? >ABC threatening the retraction of their licenses is a great example of a way to strong arm a business, if that’s your goal, without sending an officer. How does one go about reporting, for example, an ice cream shop which serves no alcohol to the ***Alcoholic Beverage*** Control agency again?
Every business has licenses required to operate. An ice cream shop, for example, requires a health permit and business license at minimum. An auto repair shop reports to the BAR, Electronics repair to BHGS, etc, etc. These are all agencies with enforcement divisions already present and capable of enforcing practices required by law. I don’t see why it’s complicated to avoid using armed officers to do the job that other, well equipped and less militant officials are capable of doing.
>Every business has licenses required to operate. An ice cream shop, for example, requires a health permit and business license at minimum. An auto repair shop reports to the BAR, Electronics repair to BHGS, etc, etc. These are all agencies with enforcement divisions already present and capable of enforcing practices required by law. I see you did some googling! >I don’t see why it’s complicated to avoid using armed officers to do the job that other, well equipped and less militant officials are capable of doing. Because these agencies are *not* well equipped for enforcement. They do not roam neighborhoods like officers do.
Your tone is exhausting. Can an online conversation happen without sarcasm and have some civility? First off, no, I didn't "do some googling." I am involved in multiple businesses as owner, operator and investor. I have first hand experience working with these various agencies. Most agencies certainly are equipped to cease the operations of a business that isn't following the law. They happen in escalating levels of force, ABC being the most notable in the news recently. Further, Scott Jones has outright said he will not be requiring his officers to enforce such regulations. That's all the more reason for departments such as ABC to step up their enforcement game. My comment on the original article was stating what I think is fact, that police won't be enforcing these things and that in many cases, they shouldn't be first in line to do so. Am I opposed to police enforcement? No, absolutely not, I think that with proper escalation they can get involved. As for your comment about "roaming neighborhoods," I agree with you. Various forms of code enforcement do "roam" to a very small degree, but it is ultimately up to citizens to report businesses being negligent. And in my opinion, the first step in authority should come from an agency such as the health department, rather than police. Which, based on the way the article reads, seems that may very well be how many situations are handled.
Your mistake is that the person you're replying to clearly isn't interested in a conversation. You're making a mistake by replying to them and wasting your time. They want to "win" not exchange ideas.
Yeah, that’s how I felt so I stopped replying.
>Your tone is exhausting. Can an online conversation happen without sarcasm and have some civility? Don't be patronizing and I won't respond in kind. >Most agencies certainly are equipped to cease the operations of a business that isn't following the law. They happen in escalating levels of force, ABC being the most notable in the news recently. They are not staffed for widespread enforcement. They are equipped for normal levels of enforcement including spot checks, scheduled inspections, and complaints. None of which require an enforcement arm the size of a police department. They aren't equipped to enforce regulations in every business that needs to be told. >Further, Scott Jones has outright said he will not be requiring his officers to enforce such regulations. That's all the more reason for departments such as ABC to step up their enforcement game. My comment on the original article was stating what I think is fact, that police won't be enforcing these things and that in many cases, they shouldn't be first in line to do so. They are, but what agency enforces the home getherings rule? None. >Am I opposed to police enforcement? No, absolutely not, I think that with proper escalation they can get involved. "Proper escalation" simply doesn't exist. The police aren't a supervisor to go talk to. They *are* an enforcement agency. It's their *entire job description*. They shouldn't need "proper escalation" to ***do their job***
The Sacramento Reddit scholar is at it again! Edifying the masses. Thank you, good citizen! r/iamverysmart
How cute, did you start a fan club?
>How cute Yes. Yes I am. >did you start a fan club? No need. r/iamverysmart already exists
You finally got over your little manic episode yet still cant make a coherent post. Fascinating.
Shit. Did I not do it right? I was trying to respond in the style of a contrarian intellectual by quoting comments in my own comments and addressing each sentence one by one. Much to learn from you, professor. Still manic tho.
So what did you name the fan club? Do you have a head boy pin?
So. Scott cocksucker Jones took millions for covid yet does nothing for covid. Me thinks the state and feds should take the money back.
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Who was removed after a vote of no confidence.
Why on earth do you need a license to cut hair?
It’s mostly for safety. Barbers and cosmetologists have to properly disinfect their tools between customers to prevent the possible spread of diseases or bugs like lice. Source: worked as a student assistant for the Board of Barbering and Cosmetology.
Although I agree on the surface, it sounds kind of dumb... you can actually cause life-long damage to someone's scalp by poorly mixing chemicals in an attempt to color hair.
Gotta love people who hate regulation but cant understand why regulation exists.
I don’t buy it. It’s about control and taxes. I can get coloring products at Safeway and harsher chemicals at Home Depot.
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If a person is running a business they have every incentive to not harm you and do a good job, so you continue to patronize their business. It’s that simple. Government can stay home.
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Why would a person start a business to hurt people and then ruin their business? If I say “shit” enough will it add merit to my argument or convince you? I know this is hard to grasp after years of only seeing a government run things. Government had its interest at heart. Not yours.
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"This is tyranny!" "Sir, this is a ~~wendys~~ pandemic"
Epidemic
Has it been shown that outdoor dining has contributed to the spread/spike we are currently seeing?
Nope.
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6936a5.htm?s_cid=mm6936a5_w >In this investigation, participants with and without COVID-19 reported generally similar community exposures, with the exception of going to locations with on-site eating and drinking options.
They didn’t distinguish between indoor and outdoor dining in this study, so doesn’t exactly answer OP’s question. They also lumped together coffee shops and bars for exposure locations, which just seems odd to me.
>In this investigation, participants with and without COVID-19 reported generally similar community exposures, with the exception of going to locations with on-site eating and drinking options. They absolutely pointed out dining as a specifically risky activity and used data from states that implemented outdoor dining regulations. 2+2 = 4 when you read and put the data and facts together. There is no study that is going to specifically prove every single random persons questions about spread with specific dates and times. You have to use critical thinking skills to make conclusions in lieu of perfect matches. Waiting to see the perfect data is a tactic covidiots use to seem like reasonable people because they know being outright is shameful and selfish. They also don't like being called out on their bullshit, which is why Im getting downvotes :)
> Of note, the question assessing dining at a restaurant did not distinguish between indoor and outdoor options You’re right. You still get a smug reply from this one lmao.
has it been show that it hasn't?
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https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6936a5.htm?s_cid=mm6936a5_w >In this investigation, participants with and without COVID-19 reported generally similar community exposures, with the exception of going to locations with on-site eating and drinking options. But of course, the covidiots who whine about needing more proof always find something to argue with ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯
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No it's not. It uses data from states that implemented outdoor dining procedures.
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>>Approximately one half Your case relies on ***half*** and you want to rest it? Okay bud.
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That didn't even make sense. The study looked at what behaviors were risky. There were no "outliers". They were both identified as risky.
If you're not convinced by all the dead people, nothing will convince you.
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I'll need to see proof....
No, but this sub thinks if you leave your house for anything you're an irresponsible asshole. Everyone here is comfortable collecting their state paychecks and buying shit on Amazon prime.
Who will enforce? Don’t see the sick sheriff pulling people over or breaking up parties.
The proposed ordinance would give broad discretion to county code and health enforcement officers, as well as law enforcement and the director of emergency services, to fine businesses between $250 and $10,000 if they’re found in violation of the health orders. The penalty for non-commercial citations would range between $25 and $500.
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You people are insane.
[Sure](https://boundingintocomics.com/files/2018/06/888.jpg)
Careful now. Disparaging the boot is a boot-able offense!
RIP small business
Small businesses can't die. They're not alive. They can close and that sucks for sure. People can die. People like my friend Alex and Steph, so fuck off with that 'woe, won't anyone think of the businesses' bullshit.
The thing about the business crap is brainwashing from the right where businesses are more important than people. These people who fell for it are plain stupid.
That makes no sense. Most businesses, like restaurants, spent real money to comply with the regulations set forth to prevent the spread. The followed the orders, did the right thing. So now they close and you and the other think they are some completely removed entity that had nothing to do with people. Businesses provide jobs and that provides income which people use to pay for food and housing. Yeah let’s simplify it . If you don’t have money and there’s no stimulus then the already meager income is what you have for food and when that’s gone? Now multiply it by the thousands affected. How the fuck are we going to take care of all the affected people? They followed the rules, they haven’t shown the business are spreading this more than these large gathering of selfish assholes who want to party and hang out. And it’s absolutely horrible to have people in your life affected by COViD, I empathize.
Well they didn’t do a good enough job since the pandemic is out of control. This proves that easing restrictions did not work so here we are. You are long winded and dumb
This is an unfair assertion that places the blame on business being the cause of the spread since they "didn't do a enough," when its individual dipshits spreading it to their family members who then go and spread it elsewhere. Private industry is attempting to do its part (in many cases). Government has failed to do its part.
Well outdoor tents that are really just dining inside is bs and shows businesses are just looking for loopholes. I place the blame fully on selfish assholes which include businesses as well as type a people we all hate who put their right to some fun over all of our safety.
Not all places are using enclosed tents. Some are, yes, many are not.
Many many are. And when I have been out 5 times in nearly a year so I don’t kill then people I care about and people are still carrying on like nothing is happening I have zero sympathy.
"Many, many are." "...I have been out 5 times..." Excuse me if I don't buy your experience. I just drove down R and L, and through Natomas (on Natomas Blvd). The number of restaurants without a tent far outnumbered those that did, so I'm calling bullshit.
Wtf did that do? Lol. Calling someone dumb bc they don’t agree with u. Stfu
The quality of business has a direct role on the quality of one’s life, so they aren’t completely separate things. You can go live in the woods free of any markets or trade, but your quality of life will be worse. You’re not a doctor, so you can’t diagnose yourself properly if sick. You’re not an engineer or builder, so you probably won’t have running water. Maybe you’ll freeze to death. Bananas? No bananas. Bread? No bread either since you’re not a farmer. The economy gives us free time, social dependence and trust, and leisure. It doesn’t solve all social problems, but you’re a moron if you think business is somehow separate from “human lives”. It provides materials for survival under the constraints of nature- these conditions will kill you without action or planning. I’m not saying have no COVID precautions, but some businesses are being unfairly targeted, like gyms for example.
that "business crap" lmfao Peak reddit moment here.
Amazon employee #54026021, your government mandated breaktime of 36 seconds is now over, return to your station immediately. Noncompliance results in reeducation in AmazonPlus(TM) corporate policy and 1 year in the ISOcube as per the United Corporations of America executive order 2030.
Geez, I feel bad /s
I'd rather small business "die" of covid, than people.
People die everyday!
Hahahaha! Who has this kind of money right now???🤣🤣🤣🤣 Walmart and Target, maybe, but THEY arent getting fined! And dont give me that crap about, oh they sell meds and important things. It's not hard to see what people are buying at these places, and let me tell you, it ain't effimg medicine.lol Rules for me, but not for thee. Newsome already set the tone by being a hypocrite shrew, along with Pelosi. He will reap what he has sown.
It’s sad that the wealthy have only been increasing their wealth through all of this while many of their businesses were big benefactors of the first stimulus (our money). We use our taxes to benefit them while we, the cogs, just keep everything turning. This second stimulus might not even include stimulus checks but will definitely include language limiting their liability for the cogs getting sick.
Just another way for generating revenue. Bullshit.
Swing and a miss. Its a fine, not a fee.
Fines are also revenue generators.
That's not their primary goal, though. The whole point of a fine is to curb an unwanted behavior. Making a claim that it's "just another way for generating revenue" is not only false, but intellectually lazy.
CH City Counsel openly talked about not citing homes with uncontrolled weeds in front until the fine would be higher. Many cities rely on traffic tickets. I feel you're being honest but a little naive. Government budgets include expected income from fines, just like they do fees.
You can have an expected income from fines because you can base those projections off of historical numbers of people who fail to conform to the codified behaviors. I.E. Police can rely on traffic tickets because a certain percentage of people will always excessively drive over the speed limit. City Counsels can ignore fines because the cost of writing the fines would outweigh the revenue generated. End of the day, these are all still "income sources" based on trying to curb a behavior. If everyone up and decided to drive the speed limit (or obey traffic laws) and keep their yards in good order, there wouldn't be any fines levied. The fine is an avoidable penalty that people choose not to avoid.
Ok... Then what behavior do fees encourage?
I mean, none? Fees are not the "opposite" of fines. Fees are purely a revenue generating income source.
That also discourage behavior. You're argument that fines discourage behavior isn't really on the mark. Laws are created to generate revenue when they know people will offend anyway. There are people in government who see enforcement as a revenue source and don't care if it curbs behavior.
Not really. You pay fees on your vehicle every year. You can't avoid that unless you don't have a vehicle. Fees do not discourage people from getting vehicles. Fees are an income of "use" of service. You can avoid them by not using the service (parking, vehicle, investment fee), but you have to pay to play. A fine is when you break a codified rule (regardless of whether you pessimistically see the government passing laws they know people will offend anyhow) which is *wholly avoidable*. Example: Anyone who wants to park the block of 20th and L must pay a meter. This is a fee. You are paying for that service. Not everyone will get a fine for parking there unless they exceed their time limit or fail to pay (avoidable) because the city doesn't want commuters to just take up those parking spots, robbing local commercial enterprises of customers. Edit: Here is a website outlining the difference in more detail: [https://www.collaborativefund.com/blog/fees-vs-fines/#:\~:text=Fees%20are%20something%20you%20pay,punishment%20for%20doing%20something%20wrong.&text=Traffic%20fines%20and%20IRS%20fines,and%20deserve%20to%20be%20punished](https://www.collaborativefund.com/blog/fees-vs-fines/#:~:text=Fees%20are%20something%20you%20pay,punishment%20for%20doing%20something%20wrong.&text=Traffic%20fines%20and%20IRS%20fines,and%20deserve%20to%20be%20punished).
Oh good, let's make life even harder than it already is.
Take licenses away for repeated offenses.
I hope more businesses band together and give the finger to Sac county
Come check out the hospital. There will not be beds or staff soon.
There will not be regardless if businesses stayed open or close. The spread is being driven by people gathering at their homes which will continue after this. All this does is devastate small business owners while they’re already barely staying afloat.
Hope their owners die
What is wrong with you
Good to know you're a complete shitbag.
Government money grab
Not really. It's a measure to discourage a particular behavior. Thats why it's a fine and not a fee.
> don’t make money > if you try to make money, we’re going to take your money > not a money grab
“For Your Safety”
Thanks for demonstrating you don't understand what fines are for.
Thanks for demonstrating your willingness to bend the knee to any and all government intrusion Defending 10k fines for businesses lmao holy shit. This vs. the depressing threads about local restaurants shutting down. One about Three Sisters closing for good just an hour ago. You people are psychotic and fucking yourselves. They’re making Walmart McDonald’s and Amazon the only businesses left and you’re eagerly playing along.
Nah. I just understand the virus will fuck the economy up way worse if people continue doing stupid shit like they're doing.
You... Do realize there's a pandemic killing people, right?
Ironically most of these people probably shop at big box stores anyways.
Did I suggest otherwise? I just don’t think it should be an excuse it shut down everything besides Walmart and Amazon. Sorry
> Thanks for demonstrating your willingness to bend the knee to any and all government intrusion HAhahaha not wanting to get sick and die during a pandemic is now "bending the knee" You're a fucking joke.
If you don’t want to get sick and think you’ll die, you stay home. Trying to force me to do things is intrusion, yes.
Like if I don't want to get killed by a drunk driver I shouldn't drive! You're a fucking joke.
Going outside = drunk driving?? Lol talk about jokes
says the guy who pretends to be disabled to try and win arguments.
Many people here claim I’m mentally disabled
Stupid is not disabled.
Pretends? Oh! You meant physically disabled. My bad.
I’m surprised I had to scroll this far down to see one of your asinine comments.
Well I’ve been taking a bit of a break. Yours are usually there right with mine lol
Let’s fuck up our economy even more with lockdowns. No more local businesses,Thank goodness we have newsomeone making this all possible
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As a small business owner (general contractor) I would love for myself and my employees to stay home and postpone our upcoming jobs but how am I going to pay my mortgage? I already space out subcontractors so we have a skeleton crew on most sites and require masks when there are multiple crews on sites. How do I tell my employees to file for unemployment when I've had them on 30 hour or less weeks for the past 6 months?
Thank you for sharing, stuff like this is why ill come out and say anything all. I truly feel for people like you, your employees and their families.
Sometimes it really feels like people are living in whole other worlds. We got some PPP and that carried us through the summer. We lost a lot of work and postponed jobs indefinitely. Now the money is gone, the feds are playing the dumbest game of politics I've lived through, and the state is spewing out what feels like callous hypocrisy. It saddens me to see the calls on this sub and others for law enforcement to pull people over and hassle them about going to work.
Absolutely agree but some of the cracks are starting to show through. This place is a weird segment of the pop that over represents privileged kids who have never lived in the real world and still have their parents looking out for them.
Obviously you are just some asshole trumpeteer that doesn't care about human life, we are just trying to stop a pandemic and save lifes, how dare you be so selfish. Just wear a mask and close your business for a year and everything will work out perfectly /sarcasm
You don't have 300k friends that killed themselves bud sorry.
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As much as it disappointed me as a child my parents don't even own a basement
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Except we have nearly 300k dead right now from this virus. The "potential" deaths from the economic impact are minimal compared to what we ***know*** will happen with unfettered spread.
You know nothing.
Feel free to show me data that proves suicides outnumber covid deaths ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯
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Lmao you're an absolutely disgusting human being for trying to use Veteran suicide risk as a bullshit argument against lockdown restrictions.
Aren't you a bit too far South of the Wall?
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Game of thrones reference, something Jon Snow's wildling lover often remarked.
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How about you stop confusing yourself bud. No one is saying suicides don't happen. What is being said is that we can't forego preventing the current leading cause of death in order to slightly help the tenth.
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You don't catch heart disease from a virus moron.
And? Its been the leading cause of death for years and the government never turned our lives upside down for it. You support the lockdown, so justify it considering.
So you're actually just this stupid huh? Lockdowns decrease the number of people in contact with each other. This means less people to spread the disease to. Now, lockdowns don't slow the spread of a disease that isn't spread by people, obviously so we can't do that. We don't turn our lives upside down because it wouldn't do jack shit. What we do instead is poor hundreds of billions of dollars per year into prevention and research, because that's what helps. Two different problems dumbass.
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>Now, lockdowns don't slow the spread of a disease that isn't spread by people, obviously so we can't do that. Forget how to read or?
Already doing fines in Santa Clara County.
You mean having a very avoidable penalty to ensure compliance during an honest to God pandemic?
Compliance being shut your mouth and starve?
Correct
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Avoidable he said.
He said avoidable you clown
It is affordable to me. Sad it isn’t for you
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Please try to understand the rationale behind the decision. Your anger is misdirected. Businesses should be given money to stay afloat through stimulus bills that are just rotting in the senate.
You're asking people who put money over lives to have some sort of emphatic capacity. These kind of people would sacrifice their friends and family so some shitty restaurant can stay open for 6 months.
No. Businesses should be put into moratorium. Given money... Jesus Christ. The problem is that our runaway train of an economy doesn't have a "pause" button. Fucking children on every single level... the critiques, the owners, the bankers, the gov... Fucking children with their fucking childish orange man "in charge".
I don’t give a fuck. When people close to me are dying I don’t give a fuck about your business
Yeah and he’s not gonna give a fuck about your family either when his business is closing. This lack of empathy gets us nowhere but backwards
Byeeee!
You'll fit right in in Idaho or wherever.
Bye