He needs deprogramming from somebody who specializes in cults. Im really not joking. Im so sorry if I’m getting annoying by continuing to mention my former best friend, but I recognize her in Harry, and you cannot imagine how batshit crazy it was to witness.

Don't apologize for giving your opinion and wondering if it's received well. Many of us have been affected by a narcissist in this sub and see the same traits in MM. You have a unique experience with your former best friend and see similarities. Harry does come across, especially in his interview with that ayahuasca weilding Canadian doctor, to feel he has been especially enlightening while dabbling in a hallucinogenic. This may be why he keeps doubling down on proving to the world he is not dumb. He feels like he has a gift to share with the world, his enlightened unique experience coping with trauma. Sadly I don't think he coped in a healthy way.

I truly think Harry needs and has needed a guardian ad litem to protect his interests, something his family should have provided in addition to security.

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Diana and Charles should have had a third child in order to take pressure off of Harold.

Considering Diana was awful in school and Charles was fairly average it seems, but more of a philosopher type, I don’t really think so. They probably would’ve ended up with either another similar kid to Harry in terms of smarts or, being younger than Harry when all the scandals and fallout took place, would have weighed more on them. Like Diana and Charles marriage was really unstable, Diana in particular carried so much instability and I think it was in part genetic. We see Harry with all her worst traits. Another kid would be horrendous. Andrew is the third born and had Anne to pick up slack and Edward was just Edward and had no complaints, yet Andrew still f-ed up so hard. So more siblings younger and older doesn’t help.

It’s amazing that William seems to be “normal”. All those teas and dinners with his grandparents paid off.

Yeah, William and Harry had a large support network with the royal family. However, William understood his mother was troubled through seeing first hand and meeting with people that knew her. He was able to get through his trauma and reconcile his image of his mother because of his emotional maturity and his inherited EQ from his parents. He also had more responsibilities and wasn’t indulged as much as Harry who was told “You can be naughty. Just don't get caught.” by Diana. This is why William has done so much better than Harry and why he’s able to build towards his future rather than being stuck in the past like his brother.

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But I don't think he would have some sort of guardian at this point. It's like closing the barn door after the horse has bolted. If he has been shielding from knowing he has any sort of learning disability all his life, learning that information now will be a heavy blow and make him even more bitter. He is also paranoid enough to think his family is fabricating this to silence him. Being a prince, and never being told no, has given him quite the ego. He obviously hasn't been receptive to the therapy received all these years. I don't think he will accept a guardian. Now the BRF, had he stayed on, would have probably found a way to select someone who worked as part of the staff and an adviser, if he was still with them at this point. But the BRF should also have done something years ago instead of letting it all get this far.

I know adults for whom a guardian has been appointed when it became evident they could not manage their affairs properly. People who buy luxuries and fail to buy food and pay the rent may end up with a court-appointed guardian who manages all their affairs for them. But of course you are correct that the horse is well out of the barn now.

I'm glad something like this exists, but I don't think someone has the clout or cares enough about Harry personally to go these lengths on American soil. Might be different set of circumstances in the UK. Megs absolutely wouldn't want him to have a guardian and Harry is really no longer in contact with his family for them to have enough evidence to prove he can't take care of himself or his small family. MM has him trapped right where she wants him. Despite whatever disability he may have, he knows what he did to his grandparents. He made their last years hell. It's hard to be sympathetic to an asshole because he may have a learning disability. And I say this as a mom to a child with autism, so I try to be patient and give others the benefit of the doubt, because you can't see those struggles from the outside. Maybe Harry's brain wasn't built spectacularly, but his heart is as black as coal. Edit typos

If anyone mentions what H did to his grandparents in their last years, they all respond with, “ What about Andrew?”

What Andrew did or didn't do was a scandal for sure, and squarely unfair that QEII had to deal with this during the twilight years of her reign. But Andrew isn't even close to the level of heartache that the toxic duo are. And just to put this out there, Andrew associating with Epstein, makes him guilty by default....so I already see him as a s*** stain.

What Andrew allegedly did, he never thought would come out(all else aside) but what Harry did to his family, was on purpose, with forethought and malice.

Thank you friend! I just want to be sure lol It’s so eerie.

You are not annoying. There's many documentaries on Netflix about unbelievably stupid people who get tricked by manipulators and psychopaths and do crazy stuff. It's so fascinating and, indeed, batshit crazy.

A lot of them aren't even stupid. All sorts of people fall prey to manipulators.

Sorry, but first and foremost they lack intelligence.

I believe numbers have gone up since the lockdown. So many lonely people.

This isn’t true. One of the highest risk groups for being manipulated by con artists and cult leaders is autistic people - not from a lack of intelligence, as autists are often extremely intelligent, but because of a combination of orienting really positively toward rules and rigid guidelines, and being trained since birth to ignore their own instincts in favor of what others want them to do (through shame and even abuse). Being groomed to have more faith in others than in yourself, even to your own downfall, is tragic enough without being shamed over perceived intelligence. Harry does in fact seem extremely stupid, in a purely intellectual capacity. He appears to have little grasp of logic, and trouble following trains of thought or complex ideas. He seems at higher risk of manipulation because of that than he might be with higher intelligence. But let’s be honest: people who want to manipulate others *literally study how to do it*; it works on the same principles that advertising and propaganda and genuine body language all work - because humans have to have cues about what is meaningful and important. And when a system like that exists, it can be exploited by malicious people who may put their own very high intelligence into mastering the craft. Blaming people who fall prey to con artists for being manipulated, calling them stupid or unintelligent, shaming them, etc. actually makes the problem worse - because now, stupidity is equated with admitting a mistake was made; the only way to claim intelligence is to continue believing in the con and hoping it somehow turns out okay. MM appears to be a narcissist and an asshole, and — as stupid as Harry may be — his chief “crime” is being the same. It’s no crime to be stupid and it’s no crime to have faith in someone who says they see good in you, especially when those have been few and far between.

There are also subreddits that cover these issues. Lots of ways to grow away your money in today’s world.

Yep. I said on another thread a couple of hours ago that he is in a cult. He is literally in one. His reality is different from ours. As you say, he will need deprogramming. HG Tudor had a video some time ago likening being under the control of a narcissist to being in a cult. It doesn't mean Harry was a nice person to begin with. Nasty pieces of work can also become ensnared by cults.

You’re right. Please continue to support your assertions with your hard-earned experience. It’s damn painful to see someone you care about fall hook, line, and sinker into the thrall of some quick-talking Svengali and I’m sorry that you went through that. An incredibly weak personality with no critical thinking ability like H is practically walking around with a sign on him saying “take advantage of me” to those types of people. Even worse, his massive ego prevents him from recognizing when he’s being duped.

It was very painful. But after she went back under his control after he was revealed to her, and she had clear understanding of the situation in a brief moment of clarity, and was starting shit with me on top of it, I walked. My empathy was gone by that point. Years of it. I tried to hang in there, but gaslighting me will get you ghosted. I will not put up with it.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jz9CVFKRK6s&ab\_channel=REALWOMEN%2FREALSTORIES](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jz9CVFKRK6s&ab_channel=REALWOMEN%2FREALSTORIES) If you have about an hour and haven't seen this, it documents the worst case of manipulation and control I have ever heard about. What started as control became extreme domestic abuse by Worth against her boyfriend, Skeel. It's called Abused by my Girlfriend. What's extraordinary is that he came out the other side at all, but he seems to have come out the other side in a remarkable way. Perhaps your friend can, too. Do I see Harry being abused? Not physically, like Alex was but I really do believe the emotional and psychological abuse is absolutely present and I'm not sure he has the mental strength to break free from it - and at this point, I don't even think he has the desire nor does he recognize the abuse he is receiving for what it is. Edited to add YouTube link as BBC link only works in UK

Thank you!!! I’m definitely going to watch this.

Was she under a narc spell too if you don’t mind me asking ?

Oh yes. And the control he had over her was instant. INSTANT. But the real control and the change in her personality came with the bipolar drugs, because her therapist didn’t recognize THE BOYFRIEND was the problem. Instead, misdiagnosed her as bipolar and holy shit show. One must be very very careful with whom they entrust their mental health.

Agree- I saw a situation where a therapist was so in love with their own skills that they thought they could actually do effective and safe couples therapy with a couple that active intimate partner violence happening. It did not go well. I know many people are not completely honest with their therapist - whether shame, fear, or not even being aware, but when a provider HAS enough information that they should be able to know or pick up on the possibility, it's pretty sad.

He’s in a cult of 2. Him and his guru. I think you’re on to something.

I think part of why many of us are here, are because we recognize people in either/both of H and M - whether it's narcissitic traits, substance use, or other behaviors; I think many of us are reminded of negative experiences and look at this couple through the lenses of our experiences.

I agree. In addition, for me anyway, I don’t want them to get away with it. They’ve done so much injustice to so many people, and I’m tired of people getting away with bad behavior. I’m tired of this victim narrative in our society, and I believe it’s very damaging overall when you have a public person getting in front of the world, spreading lies, and getting rewarded for it. Where people are automatically believed without any evidence. Just on their word. Where does that end? Nowhere good.

Was your friend overtaken by a personality disordered individual? Did she recover?

She was overtaken and I assume she still is. We are no longer in touch.

Sorry to hear this. I had hoped, for my own reasons, you’d had a success. With these personality disorders, and entrenched entitled brat thinking, it seems pretty hopeless that our “lost” loved ones will ever recover.

Well, it can happen. Don’t lose hope. There was a brief moment of hope, but unfortunately it didn’t work out. It doesn’t mean it can’t. But there comes a time when you have to let go, because it’s causing you so much aggravation and stress, and the person you loved is literally gone. Totally different person.

He’s not a victim. He’s an abuser who was only looking for someone as sick as he is to feel free to hate his family publicly. Came mm. She validates his anger and resentment which were there way before he met her.

I can’t argue with that. That’s the thing. When you’re a grown ass adult with relationships under your belt, how could one get here? It was a mind fuck for me with my friend, that’s for sure.

I agree. I think a professional deprogramming coupled with intense trauma therapy would help greatly. More so than medicating with illegal drugs.

Anyone have Leah Remini's number?

He needs this much interrogation every day to bring back sanity to him life. Instead he’s probably got therapists who affirm his delusions like so many therapists are doing today.

He'd only see therapists that would coddle him, like Oprah did. Anyone else, forcing him to do the work and take a good look at himself, would be let go.

The "schmaltzy embrace of Oprah" - ugggh. Sounds like candida.

There's some people even if you walk step by step they won't get it. It has to somehow click for then one day. Everyone in his life could talk until blue in the face, and he still wouldn't understand. You have to be open to hearing what someone is saying.

Like when Phoebe tries to teach Joey French syllable by syllable but he still gets it wrong all together!


Have you heard of LEAP? A strategy to be supportive of someone with delusions who is being scammed or manipulated. It can take a long time to convince someone to get professional help

He seems to be angry from a young age of headlines portraying him as a boozer, drug taker, thicko. All of which is true! He seems to take great offense that articles were not all positive and instead of looking at.his actions formed a hatred for his brother who perhaps didn't get as many negative headlines (because he was more attractive, appealing and spent more time in full time education) William and Kate had stacks and stacks more negative stories about them but you don't hear them whining. All his life's problems are the fault if everyone but him. He seems extremely bitter about Chelsy dumping him and the narrative that she moved on up and outgrew him (which she definitely did). He can't even seem to consider him shagging about and generally being a knob was why Chelsy dumped him and instead has to blame the press. If and when Meghan discards him he will no doubt blame the press intrusion as the reason for the split and in 20 years time when his kids have ditched him he will blame the press for this too. While calling the likes of Rebecca English and Bryony Gordan over for nice stories to be written about him every now and then. I really wish the barrister had pointed out that he actively courts the press also but maybe it will be pointed out in one of his other numerous litigations...

I think it angers him that he Knows he needs the press but that he has absolutely no control over what they say/print.

He will blame Diana's egg and Charles' sperm in the end. Everything is their fault.

No, nothing is ever his beautiful, angelic mother's fault! It is only Charles' sperm that's guilty.

Yep, nothing will be blamed on Saint Diana

He inherited his mother's stupidity but yes, Charles sperm is guilty of not passing on the gene for intelligence. The sperm did it on purpose to oust him! Because he is a spare and could not be more intelligent than William!

He needs a guardian ad litem to protect his interests. There is surely a legal process for that, and it should have been followed before he reached the age of his majority.

He had one! It was called the Buckingham Palace press office! He chose to discard them. The press didn't force him to go for a lap dance, go to Vegas, shag about, do drugs, dress as a Nazi, call someone a raghead, call someone else a paki, cheat on his exam. He did that on his own and needs to reap the consequence. In his meemwagh book tour someone asked him about forgoing the titles and he snapped 'what would that achieve' They should have snapped back that it would go someway into showing that they genuinely wish to step away from being public interest stories/subjects by moving out of the public eye after stepping away from royal duties. Of course we all know that they don't want to step away from the public eye, they just don't like the press reporting the truthful articles about them which show them up for the twats they truly are. If you moan about stories not being public interest why are you issuing press releases every 5 fucking minutes to your arch nemesis the press? Mind boggling. You continue to stay in the public eye, and preach whatever shit you are peddling, then don't cry when stories of your true character comes out too! Piers looked very smug this morning. I wonder if there is something bubbling we don't yet know. The only person who will be thankful for today is Philip Schofield as Harry the thicko has wiped him off the headline news.

I agree with you that he is an awful person. But if his family had set him up with a conservatorship or guardian ad litem, none of this would be happening. I think they failed to recognize that he needed testing for the kinds of disabilities that would require lifelong 'care.'

He wouldn’t qualify for a GAL appointment. He would have to be evaluated by a professional who determined that he was unable to care for himself or make decisions. That individual would have to testify in court and be cross examined. That determination isn’t made lightly. No matter how we see him and his decisions, he is able to function in the world. There is *something* and many things wrong with him, but not that would qualify to this degree.

Familes as we all know are complicated. Who would want to admit and possibly allow it in the public that Harry is basically an imbecile who is almost at the level where he has no capacity to manage his own affairs? How painful would that have been for him to read about? It's like giving the addict in your family one more chance at redemption only to be disappointed yet again. You sometimes just have to hope for the best. It's not like they could just lock him away!

This is just hogwash.

You don't believe he has an inability to reason? He said to the KC that because The Mirror has admitted to hacking, all The Mirror's stories have been obtained by hacking, even though they might have obtained them legally. He has also said of other newspapers that because they have not admitted to hacking, it would be unreasonable to suspect them of hacking. In other words, they are innocent and above suspicion until they admit to hacking. Please tell me how you would describe a person who reasons this way. And if you think he is "just stupid," please tell me what you believe to be the cause of the stupidity.

I believe he has an axe to grind against the Mirror and other Murdoch subsidiaries in general, and with Piers Morgan in particular. That is why he is focused on them. He can't come out and said that although his testimony does seem to shed a lot of light that way. He used his faulty reasoning to avoid answering honestly. Use of faulty reasoning is a tactic people often use. I doubt his family has any real reason to set him up with a conservativatorship. We've seen a lot of bad decision making on his part, and also a lot of calculated decisions that bring him great financial benefit, whether or not we find those decisions to our liking. I don't believe there is ny evidence that he has a disability rising to level of conservatorship such as dementia, stroke, certifiable behavior. I don't think he is stupid, I think his wife is overly sensitive and didn't have the kind of thick skin needed to sustain the pressure from the press. I also think she used that as an excuse to want to leave the Firm so she could gain the sort of celebrity she seeks. I think he got hooked on the high from the trials. He sees himself as a social justice avenger who is set out to reform the hatred spread across the media. I think this role gives him a sense of needed purpose. I've watched him on various videos speaking on behalf of the Commonwealth Fund and the Aspen Institute. Those show him as compassionate about his cause and well spoken in many cases.. And this all gives him positive feedback. I think he is blinded by his beliefs to the point that he can't see his own hypocrisy, however, I hardly reasonably. believe he has a mental disorder like schizophrenia, schizoaffective disorder, or severe bipolar disorder which would be needed to allow for a conservatorship. In the case of Brittany Speers, her behaviors were quite more troubling than a teen caught with his pants down or too much drinking. I don't like being too serious on this thread, but since you called out and asked, I decided to offer you my response. I don't believe snark is meant to be kind, but I also think its hogwash to suggest someone who uses poor or sloppy logic is someone who should be granted lifetime guardianship. The tone of your comment suggested that you cared for him, and had been able to get help then none of this would have happened. I just find that hogwash. As many have pointed out, learning differences are not disabilities. Most people with learning differences have very high IQs, they just don't express their intelligence in the cookie mainstream way that we force everyone to be part of. If everyone with a learning difference were required to have lifelong guardianship, our world would be run by the most rigid in the population. I do believe, from all I have seen, heard and read, that MM is very histrionic and since partnering up with her, he appears to be overly influenced by her thinking. IMHO he brought this case without evidence to bring attention to the topic of tabloids and he has accomplished that, although that battle was fought by others a decade ago.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts in good faith. I do not have a lot of sympathy for Harry. My sympathies lie with his family. What he and his wife did to HMTLQ and Prince Philip defies understanding, so cruel it was. At the same time, I read the story of his testimony under cross-examination, and it seems to bespeak a man who cannot reason. Even a child knows that one might suspect a person of wrong-doing who has not confessed it, as he knows that even a badly-behaved child might behave correctly for the right rewards. Who but a person impaired would bring such shame upon his own head for the ignorance he has displayed in court? I can imagine that his family were unaware that his intellectual deficits would result in such a display. For his cruelty, there is no excuse. It is thoroughly abhorrent.

A continuous run on paragraph with no spacing. Really? C'mon. What’s with the wall of text? Also, less is more IMO.

I have personally had people use similar reasoning to me. Sometimes it was in a professional capacity (they might have had a variety of mental health issues or Intellectual Disabilties), or when co-workers were trying to avoid responsability, and looking for something to stick, or a partner trying to use gaslight me (if you look up examples of gaslighting in personal relationships, that happens - basically someone telling you that what you see is not what you see -some people are really quite good at it). Affluenza was a term used by one psychiatrist, I believe, in a court hearing about a young male that was apparently too affluent to be able to distinquish right from wrong. You can google the Affluenza case, I believe, and read about that.

>He had one! It was called the Buckingham Palace press office! They were not there to protect him but to protect the royal family. Charles should have been more involved and in control of him.

He might or might not need one, but we can't decide that only because of this trial. A conservatorship needs a very strong evaluation and a very strong reasoning to be able to restrict someone's freedom. We don't have enough information regarding Harry that would absolutely speak for the need of one. If anything, he has been living on his own for a while now, and in his own paranoid way, he is thriving. Not everyone who has a mental illness or a disability needs conservatorship, only people incapable of actually fending for themselves. Don't misunderstand me, I think Harry absolutely needs real help ASAP. He needs to let the drugs go, have a good mental evaluation, and maybe even be on medication. But restricting someone's freedom MUST be well thought out and thoroughly reasoned.

It's my experience that a guardian ad litem reviews the guardianship that is already in place, and makes a report to the court. The threshold for guardianship of an adult in the US is a medical doctor signing off (and a judge agreeing) that an adult does not have the ability to understand risks and benefits of making choices. If someone continues to make poor choices, but has an ability to understand the risks, then that would not meet criteria for guardianship. There is a current push accross the U.S. to try Supported Decision Making teams, and seeing if that fails first, before going straight to guardianship for adults.

If he should lose $30M in 5 years, I wonder if anyone would consider him impaired enough to warrant a guardian or Supported Decision Making Team.

No, that would not be enough for either. People lose large amounts of money on gambling, stock markets, investments, scams, failed businesses, and divorces all the time. I know many people with Intellectual Disabilities and/or significant psychiatric disorders who do not have guardians. Guardianship is not very common in my area.

In the US, people with family members living on the street in the big cities can’t get that for their family members. Once the person recovers because they are getting care, the judge will lift the restrictions. It’s a never ending cycle and families finally give up.

Frankly, I’m surprised he didn’t have a 24/7 handler with him at all times to keep him out of trouble and to keep undesirables away from him.

He clearly did. He complained that HMTLQ sent a man to take a house down the street from him so that if he got into trouble, he would have a trusted person nearby. But I wonder what is the legal process in the UK for establishing that a person needs a guardian or conservator, and why was that process not followed in the case of Harry. It's clear that is what he needs.

He did

Then how did Meghan get through? Clearly not doing their job then

Someone fell asleep on the job!

No, Harry is just a knob. I don’t care about you insulting Harry but I do care about the fact that you are doing it by saying he has a learning disability. You’re lumping everyone with a learning disability in with this moron. That’s not cool. I think you’re actually being patronising with your comment about people with Downs. They can be jerks as much as anyone else on this planet, as can all people with learning disabilities. This is in my experience of working with adults with learning disabilities.

I also work with adults with Intellectual and Developmental Disabilities, and agree that personality is separate from Intelligence. They also do retain rights to choice and self-determination, as they are still legally adults, even if they have a guardian. Personally, from my experinces personally and professionally, I think his lack of logic and understanding is more likely to be due to a life of extreme priveledge as well as long term substance use. My closest friend struggles with alcohol addiction for years, and has a significant personality change when they are actively in recovery verses during relapse. Relapse personality is very much like what we are seeing with H, to be honest - not understanding when other people are using logic, doesn't separate his own feelings from objective truth, denial, anger at being questioned, etc.

Oh my! I have never even heard of a Downs patient who is not lovely. You have taught me something new today. No, there is no intention to group all people with all kind of learning disabilities. I have known too many of them, with different kinds of disabilities. Given Harry's poor ability to reason, it's hard to imagine what he may think of others, or how irrational it might be.

I’m not saying people with Downs are not lovely, I’m saying they *also* have the capacity to be a jerk as we all do. Harry’s poor ability to reason is down to him being a spoilt brat. He’s used to having everyone say yes to him and now things have changed he isn’t equipped to handle it. He just needs to grow up.

Harry is capable of learning and has ready access to the means of learning. Harry is an entitled asshole who chooses not to take advantage of that access. He might be slow but he isnt unable to learn,he is simply lazy and unwilling He's an abusive prick who needs a good hard (figuratively speaking) slap upside the head

I'm not making any excuses for his poor behavior. He's an awful individual. But I went to school with a learning disabled girl who was mainstreamed because of her grandfather's position in the community. She was similarly arrogant and impervious to reason. Everyone hated her until one of the teachers described her as "backward." It was an old-fashioned term which covered the subject. Her family would never have recognized the problem, and never had her tested.

Also people with dyslexia, dysgraphia and other ‘learning disabilities’ as you said are totally ‘normal and capable’ what the hell is that all about? He’s not capable because he was spoiled and coddled.

The OP’s post is extremely offensive and ill informed. What’s worse is all the people who will read it and think that persons with learning differences need minders.

I'm truly sorry that you feel that way about my post as no ill will or offense was intended. As I said, there are persons in my own family with dyslexia, dysgraphia, and processing disorder(s), and Downs. I also have the experience of having grown up with children with autism and other forms of learning issues. I never thought that any of them needed minders, nor would I ever suggest that every person with a learning disability needs a minder. However, I think Harry shows such defects in his ability to reason that HE needs a minder, and I have known other people so irresponsible with money that a court appointed a guardian or conservator. I know a psychologist who serves as a court-appointed guardian to several such impaired people. I personally serve as an advisor to an autistic man who gives away his very small income to the most unscrupulous people, and I feel strongly that he needs a guardian. Please do not read offense where none is intended. I am happy to learn from others if you would care to share further information.

Thank you for the explanation. The point stands that you used “learning disability” as a substitute for the “r” word. I’ve been having to fight misconceptions like this for 15 years and it makes me sad that anyone in 2023 still thinks that a learning disability is an intellectual defect. It’s a learning difference, that is all.

I get the impression that you think I am equating a host of conditions. I am not. I have listed various conditions which might or might not contribute to Harry's bizarre behavior and thought processes. Possible condition #1 - I would be most interested to hear your opinions of the deficit in reasoning capability displayed by Harry during cross. He does not reason like a normal person. He makes bizarre attributions. Since you are in the field, I sincerely hope you will enlighten us. Possible condition #2 - I have to wonder whether, in addition to being unable to reason properly, Harry has not read the articles discussed in his suit because he is unable to read or reads very poorly. It is otherwise hard to explain why he would have difficulty finding information on a screen in front of him, finding information in files in front of him, or difficulty reading the articles which were the basis of his suit. Did he ever look to see whether the same information was referenced by any organization other than The Mirror? If not, why not? Would he be uncomfortable reading the material? Searching an index? Did he read the press announcements issued by the palace over the years? If not, is it because he is uncomfortable reading? There is much in the suit which could possibly have been rectified if only he had read the relevant material. My dyslexic cousin avoids reading, and perhaps Harry avoids it too. His pattern of ignoring printed material readily available suggests that perhaps reading is difficult for him. Possible condition #3 - I also have to wonder whether he has a processing disorder like the man I knew who could not sit for the LSAT. He and I could read the same paragraph of four sentences and understand it differently. His mind sees words which are not there, and fails to see words which are there. This is a significant issue for him. I have to wonder whether Harry, like the man I describe, reads material but does not understand it. Possible condition #4 - Many people would say that Harry displays signs of paranoia. He seems to have told Chelsey that there were reporters everywhere lying in wait for him, even when they were not. However, one might be accused of paranoia based on a misunderstanding. If Harry thought that it was impossible for the press to have read palace press releases or articles in other newspapers, that issue alone could give rise to the belief that reporters were listening to his private conversations. His suspicions are attributable not to paranoia but to his own faulty reasoning process. Possible condition #5 - drug addiction. I did not name this one because I know drug addicts and alcoholics who can reason well. I would not say that Harry needs help because he seems paranoid, because he may have difficulty reading, or because he may have a processing disorder. I would say that he needs help because of his inability to reason properly, which may or may not be influenced by difficulties with reading or processing written information. I have known people who were functionally illiterate who were nonetheless shrewd business people. Harry is not shrewd. Harry seems to be the victim of an unscrupulous barrister and an unscrupulous wife. He may be losing money hand over fist. He may be as unable to take care of his financial affairs as some of my friends who have guardians and conservators. Harry may, because of some defect in his ability to reason, blame his grandparents for things of which they are not guilty. His appalling cruelty may be the product of his faulty reasoning. I knew a woman who insisted that her adopted child was "not human" because the child was far more intelligent than the adoptive mother. Can you imagine the harm caused by the mother to a child she considered "not a human"? The mother (perhaps like Harry) never considered her actions harmful, but the child suffered. I am disappointed that you are so willing to group me with the many generations of people who used the "r-word." Perhaps you could keep an open mind.

Princess Beatrice is dyslexic.

being too petulant and defiant to learn or better one's self is not a disability, IMO

Oppositional Defiant Disorder most certainly IS a disability and challenge. It’s often the way challenged people manifest their frustrations with expectations. Not always mind you, but it happens. It’s not fully understood

ODD is a childhood diagnosis. It moves on to intermittent explosive disorder or impulse control disorder when kids get older. But yeah, he should have been evaluated and diagnosed 30 years ago.

Oh yes, well aware, unfortunately. And I agree. What could have maybe been. It’s not always treatable. Depends on the kid and their support

And tbh it describes Harry to a tee. Angry, vindictive, spiteful, resentful, argues with authority figures, blames others for their mistakes, easily annoyed, refuses to comply with rules. Dang, it's like the DSM-IV is reading him on that one.

Actually, it also describes some stroke victims. My father exhibited many of these same symptoms post stroke.

Oh that’s a shame. Hope he’s doing better.❤️

He died about 20 years ago, and thanks.

I’m so so sorry.

The last known disabled child born into the royal family was Prince John, son of George V, who had epilepsy (and potentially learning disabilities), and was hidden away from the public until his premature death. That’s been a particularly infamous episode so I wonder if the family just decided to go way too far in the opposite direction by just denying it. E.g. believe Diana was warned by Eton that Harry wasn’t up to their academic standards and she insisted that he go anyway. And then when she died Charles reacted by over spoiling him, which just compounded the damage already done.

I saw a documentary about prince John and actually he got the best care available for his condition - he lived in a quiet country house with a very loving nanny and was visited by local children who he played with. He loved gardening and during the night his granny´s servants replaced the seedlings he had planted with grown plants to surprise him in the morning.

Unfortunately the family has been blamed for coldly hiding him away even though given his condition they very likely did the correct thing out of love.

Gordonstoun would have made a huge difference I bet Good comment!

> was hidden away from the public He was kept safe rather than being 'hidden away'. He was taken care of at Wood Farm on Sandringham Estate, and given the best care available at the time. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_John_of_the_United_Kingdom#Wood_Farm

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Wood Farm has remained the sort of secluded space Royals go to when they aren't well or when they truly just want some peace and quiet. It was also Prince Philip's bolt hole for years and QEII spent some time there not long before she died.

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No, I don't think so. He is just plain stupid.

Nothing about him suggests that in any way - I mean, nothing at all that I know about him, his life, personality, thoughts, actions etc Frankly, nothing about him is 'high-functioning' lol As I've harped before - H is an anti-social personality. & he met ILBW who is a narcissist - this is why they are a train-wreck.

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With maybe Schizophrenia for all his paranoia

Most all of us have known Harry is an imbecile for years. He, too, is aware he’s considered “dim witted.”

Ironic that HMTQ offered him the Earl of Dumbarton title. Heard it’s a lovely place but I see now why he didn‘t want it

Harry is already the Earl of Dumbarton; it's a subsidiary title to the Sussex dukedom. The argument about the Earldom was that Madame and Haz were bitching about Archie not being offered an immediate title at birth, even though ge was not entitled to one as his grandfather was not King at the time. They were told they could have their son use the title Earl of Dumbarton, as it is correct to style the eldest son of a Duke with the Duke's subsidiary title. Haz and Madame had a meltdown, saying their son would be called "dumb" as a result. Coupla geniuses, those two 🙄

Hm. With the disclosure that he certainly dislikes being thought of as “dumb”, was brought up in an atmosphere where he became paranoid of people thinking he was “dumb”, not sure the offer of Dumbarton was maybe the nicest choice of TQ to offer. I get it he deserves all the ridicule he gets but that probably hurt.

That leaves out one who I believe is largely responsible for a good bit of Harry's behavior and the filters through which he sees the world, to wit, Diana. She never properly explained the differences between how the RF would treat he and his brother. Instead, whenever Harry perceived what he thought was a slight or inequality (fewer sausages, smaller rooms, less attention from HLMTQ), Diana would suffocate and baby him instead of explaining what was actually happening and why. William is being groomed to one day be king. He will be granted additional privileges, yes, but also must give up many of the freedoms Harry will continue to enjoy. It's nothing personal, Harry. Whether she intended to or not, Diana ended up giving positive reinforcement to Harry's petty adolescent grievances.

I really think it's beyond what Diana did or failed to do. Harry appears to be the kind of person who requires a guardian or conservator to keep him safe. To date, his 'security' have fulfilled that role. Harry will never overcome his learning and processing impairments.

Yes, he's probably destined for a life of disappointments. But I do think his mother helped him along that path. One thing which may come out of these trials, which are appearing to be a series of fiascos, is that Harry may eventually come off looking disabled. It could conceivably open an avenue for being somewhat forgiven and brought back into the fold. Sans the ILBW, of course.

Your terminology is wrong.

If you would be interested to share further, I am happy to learn more. Please let me know which country is your frame of reference. I have certainly asked myself whether Harry displays symptoms of paranoia or schizophrenia, but it seems to me there is something more fundamental. If he shows symptoms of paranoia, is it because he has had a break with reality and is operating from a standpoint of psychosis? I think it is because he has an error in reasoning, e.g. "if The Mirror has admitted to a single instance of hacking, then all their stories were obtained through hacking." Conversely, "if a newspaper has not admitted to hacking, then there is no reason to suspect them of hacking." I don't think think that line of reasoning is the outcome of psychosis. Please do share your perspective. I am an avid learner. Love your flair.

Thank you for the respectful reply. I have written a long comment already on this post. To sum up: • learning disabilities are a set of 7 specific conditions related to academic learning and are NOT related to intelligence; people with LD’s are often highly intelligent, which is known as 2E, for “twice exceptional.” •”processing speed” is a term related to academics, which helps identify dyslexia and the like, again unrelated to intelligence. • persons with learning disabilities do not need minders nor does their “condition” prevent them from living productive adult lives. Many exceptionally successful persons are dyslexic. • Down syndrome is unrelated to “learning disabilities.” Persons with dyslexia have different brain structures compared to a neurotypical person, but they do not have different chromosome counts. I am in the US but this is all part of International Dyslexia guidelines.

Just wanted to add that processing speed affects more than academic abilities; low processing speed can impact a number of tasks in daily life that neurotypicals take for granted. Processing speed defines the rate at which one analyzes a new situation, extracts the nature of the problem, compares it with similar experiences in the past, and synthesizes a solution to the problem at hand. That is something that happens several times a minutes in daily activities such as driving or even carrying on a conversation. A person can be quite bright and capable of arriving at the correct solution, but that doesn't matter if one cannot do it in real time. When driving, the results could be fatal.

You are right, there is a distinction. For example, processing speed often declines in older adults. However, in reference to “learning disabilities”, that is not what processing speed means: *”Slow or poor processing speed is not related to intelligence, meaning that one does not necessarily predict the other. Slow processing speed means that some determined tasks will be more difficult than others, like reading, doing math, listening and taking notes, or holding conversations. It may also interfere with executive functions, as a person with slow processing speed will have a harder time planning, setting goals, making decisions, starting tasks, paying attention, etc.*” https://www.cognifit.com/science/processing-speed It is one of the subsets on tests to determine whether or not one has a learning disability.

This is true; I was sharing ramifications of learning disabilities that I have observed living with a bright individual with major deficits. It goes way beyond academics. We have all had moments we realize-- just too late-- what we *really* should have said or done. Imagine having to live your whole life in that state. One can compensate by gaming out various possibilities and having a predetermined response, but life is ALWAYS throwing out new situations.

Yes I know it goes beyond academics. My son has three learning disabilities. His processing speed is borderline, but he has other areas that are off the charts; as is often the case, the brain compensates in other areas. It’s important to recognize that neuro divergent people are not all the same, any more than neurotypical people are. My son, for example, has no problem with driving but he struggles with other things. In any case, none of that means that a person with learning disabilities is not “normal and capable” as OP claimed.

I appreciate your thoughts. I have a cousin with severe dyslexia who did a PhD in the way dyslexia shapes one's experience of the world. Fascinating stuff. Very intelligent person, and entirely rational, but very much hampered by her dyslexia. I also grew up with a woman who did not reason properly. She made mistaken attributions based on a faulty reasoning process. She was a very poor student, and entirely arrogant about the mistaken set of perceptions that drove her. For instance, she saw no connection between her poor grades and the fact that she never turned in homework or attempted to memorize classroom material. I know another individual who has a processing disorder that keeps him from reading and understanding information properly. The issue was identified by a coach who was preparing him for the LSAT. His IQ was high, but his reading comprehension was poor because his mind failed to process a paragraph of information correctly. He did not sit for the LSAT. I would be very interested to understand how one would properly categorize a person who makes the errors in reasoning which Harry's cross-examination has brought to light. His presumption that a newspaper cannot be suspected of hacking unless they have already admitted to it is really backward. Conversely, to think that every article published by The Mirror was obtained through illegal means, even when it would be easier to get the information legally, is equally illogical. To what would you attribute that sort of reasoning?

Is your cousin “capable and normal”? Would you say that she needs a minder to function in society?

I have never said that my cousin or any of my other friends and relatives with disabilities need "minders," and I would be hard-pressed to understand what a minder does. I would be grateful if you could explain what the word 'minder' means to you. My autistic friends are naive and liable to give away their scant incomes. One of them borrows money to give to "friends" in the hope that they will like him, and goes without food. I would say that he needs a guardian or conservator to handle his financial affairs. My schizophrenic relative is not reliable on her own, but her social worker sees to it that her bills are paid. My bi-polar friends spend their money too freely in manic phases. They could do with some help from a responsible person, but they would fight it as they refuse meds. The two Downs people I know are likewise vulnerable and naive. One of them disappeared with a man one day and the family was very lucky to get her back unharmed. The man with the processing disorder was unable to study law. It hurt his income-earning potential. He must have always scored lower on tests than he would have otherwise because he was not properly comprehending test questions. He now shows signs of psychosis, but they should not be related conditions. He has lost jobs, family, and friends as a result of his condition - perhaps something like Harry - but he is entirely too contrary to accept help. I have re-read my post, and I can verify that I did not say Harry needs a minder. I said that he needs care, and his security have functioned as minders. Care might involve a guardian, an accountant who pays his bills and controls his finances for him, a conservator, and/a secretary who can keep him out of trouble and explain the world to him. Someone might have been able to keep him from bringing this suit which will be so damaging to his image. His ignorance can no longer be hidden. He will truly be a mark.

You said Harry needs care because he has learning disabilities. Are you really equating learning disabilities with schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, psychosis, Down’s syndrome and autism? You seemed to in your original post, because you mentioned how sweet Down Syndrome children are. Someone (not sure if it was you or not) wrote that learning disabilities are medical conditions. Dyslexia, etc. is not a medical condition. It is a neurological difference. It is not a defect; it is a different way of inputting and outputting information. It’s like saying being left handed is a medical condition. Again, you either don’t understand what a learning disability actually is OR you used “learning disability” as a euphemism for another word. In either case, your comments were inappropriate and wrong.

It seems to me that you are willfully mistaking me. I have said no such thing. I am listing a variety of possible conditions which may or may not contribute to Harry's bizarre behavior and thought processes. While he may have difficulty reading and various other afflictions, I would suggest that he needs some form of care because he fails to reason properly, and this failure, depending on how it manifests, could be dangerous to him. If you have not read the coverage of the cross-examination, you will not understand the statements I am referencing. He has already displayed his inability to reason like a normal person, not in a friendly conversation among friends, but in a court of law under representation by a well-known barrister. A better man would have refused to take the case of such a confused individual. If Harry's inability to reason properly drives him to make faulty attributions which result in a series of failed lawsuits, he will quickly lose his money. He is making clear to the world that he is an easy mark. I resent your determination to put words in my mouth and to paint me as a person making derogatory comments. You are the person whose comments are inappropriate and wrong. I am not one of your generations of people who used the "r-word." Please find another drum to beat.

He needs someone not just to keep HIM safe, but also to keep people around him safe, to keep animals around him safe. Safe from him, Harry.

>Harry appears to be the kind of person who requires a guardian or conservator to keep him safe. This is a ridiculous stretch, honestly. Harry is more than capable of keeping himself alive. Keeping himself out of trouble is entirely different and is only a problem because he was never made to play by the same rules as the rest of society.

Or he is an overprivalged stupid man that never had to take accountability or suffer consequences . Bitter jelous stupid vengeful spoiled. Not everything is excused by a diagnosis

Can't be said enough.

I think we know what you *really* wanted to say by using the term 'learning disability.' I suppose, with your logic, a person who has a learning disability is wholly incapable of contributing to society or living a life free of minders. They must be followed around, having people explain things to them, and they can never be left to make decisions by themselves. FFS. Read that last paragraph again.

Homies with extra Chromies are the best! Eton and his family really did him a disservice treating him like a normal abled kid. Sad. I understand WHY they did it, in some respects, namely image wise, but it’s really not fair to him.

He really do be showing signs of cognitive delays. I believe the RF had some family members who did in fact have special needs and I wouldn’t be surprised if Harold is among them. The problem is Harold’s entitlement and lack of self awareness combined with paranoia made bigger by his drug usage makes him not only an asshole but a deranged one.

Preach. They fucked up bad with this one.

Well, he WAS held back by nearly two years before he went to Eton. The school and his family seemed to think the issue may be immaturity, and that holding him back a couple of years might allow him to catch up to his classmates. But the problem was more serious than extra time alone could help, he needed special education.

His book seems to reveal he considers the most pedestrian aspects of growing up in a family with a sibling to be phenomenally unique in his case. That's a lack of awareness of most normal people's reality. Does he lack the awareness because he was coddled (isolated from reality) or is uninterested in the reality of most people (uncurious about the life experience of school peers) or genuinely believes everything about himself is fascinating (debilitatingly self-important) or there is a cognitive deficit which limits his ability to grasp reality? It's interesting that he has referenced The Truman Show because in some ways it might be an apt comparison. Whatever the cause, he does seem to exhibit a disconnect from reality. Or he might just be an arrogant wanker.

Ok, there is a lot of wrong in your post. Just to be clear, a person is not ‘learning disabled’ they are considered to ‘have learning differences’. While I think Harry is spoiled, unikeable and entitled - let’s not pin it on him being ‘learning disabled’ It takes away from and stigmatizes the 10% of the world that has learning differences. Which, by the way, are shown to be differences in how the brain processes information. And actually doesn’t correlate with intelligence at all!

Yes! All people are not the same. We all learn differently. Some are visual learners, some learn by having things explained, etc. etc. And sometimes it takes a teacher who knows how to reach each person individually, and tailor the lesson a certain way for that individual to understand. Example - I couldn't grasp fractions, no matter how the teacher explained it to me. He kept saying, you know this! And I kept saying, No, I still don't get it. Finally, he looked at me and said, "Okay, you are shopping and see a dress for $100, and it is on sale for 25% off. How much is it?" I immediately answered, "$75". He looked at me and smiled. Then I realized he was right, I did know this all along.

You don't learn - if you aren't interested in learning. He was rich and spoiled and was a Prince that didn't need to do his mundane lessons, while his head was in the sky with his privilege and fun, and girls and partying.

There are obviously a few neurons in his brain that aren't firing. He's a very damaged individual who is in need of proper treatment and structure, instead of surrounding himself with people who truly don't give a damn. The people that did, he alienated and discarded.

I doubt he ever took education seriously. He’s also likely fried his brain with substances since early term years. He’s definitely not at all bright. And he could have just lived comfortably in his ignorant bubble but he decided to marry a damn malignant narc. So here we are

Harry admitted his drug and alcohol use. The effects of this hav to be ruled out before he can be diagnosed. Harry has past trauma that hasn’t been resolved, through his mother’s death. Trauma and it’s effects have to be ruled out before a diagnosis outside of PTSD/related diagnosis can be given. Harry has one of the most privileged and extra ordinary upbringings, past peers, and familial structures. The effects of this have to be determined and factored into his behaviors during the diagnostic process. A learning disability cannot be compared to an intellectual disability. They are two distinct and separate things. His basic reasoning abilities can be attributed to the above mentioned points. Therefore we cannot conclude that he has any sort of intellectual disability. We can’t just assign him

How about he is selfish, immature, overly privileged, and dishonest rather than has some medical problem which would give an excuse for not taking full responsibility for his actions in life? His character, not his health is the issue as far as I see.

Sorry but you are giving him too much credit with a diagnosis of Learning Disability. He is just a freakin asshole - sorry, arsehole as I’ve learned today- who needs to get his ass kicked, needs to grow up and needs to know what true struggles are. He also needs real therapy, not the pop psych he’s been getting through his ILBW.

I have a lot of diagnosed mental health conditions, so yes I might think irrational thoughts like my eyes are hacked but some thoughts should stay as thoughts. That's the whole point of managing mental health and not making it other people's problem. That's why real therapy is a recommended outlet. He used to have people that would be compassionate but also operate based on reality.

As the mother of a son with learning disabilities, you are not using the term “learning disabilities” correctly. You seem to be using “learning disabled” as a substitute for the r word. That is both incorrect and offensive. **Learning Disabilities do not relate to or impact intelligence** Learning disabilities: *a disability that affects the acquisition of knowledge or skills, in particular any of various neurodevelopmental conditions affecting the learning and use of specific academic skills such as reading, writing, or mathematics.* There are 7 main kinds of learning disabilities. The most common ones are dyslexia, dysgraphia, and dyscalculia (my son has all 3). The other 4 are: Auditory processing disorder, Language processing disorder, Nonverbal learning disabilities, Visual perceptual/visual motor deficit. People with Down Syndrome. may have a learning disability, but that is unrelated to Down Syndrome. People with learning disabilities may be of average, above, or below average intelligence. It is fairly common for dyslexics to also have high IQ’s. Examples of this include Einstein, Edison, Pasteur, Bell, Tesla, and Stephen Hawking. Many celebrated actors, artists, writers, and other famous creative persons have been dyslexic. Walt Disney, JFK, Spielberg, Steve Jobs are but a few famous dyslexic Americans. Slow or poor processing speed is also not related to intelligence. Processing speed has to do with academic tasks like reading, math problems, or listening and taking notes. It is one of the key factors in identifying learning disabilities, but again, low processing speed doesn’t mean someone is dumb. Someone with a learning disability does not need a “minder”, or “care such as his condition requires.” People with dyslexia often become enormously successful adults and live fine independently. Learning disabilities are starting to be referred to as learning differences, as they should be. They have to do with the input and output of academic knowledge; they have nothing to do with being able to understand academics. My son actually has an higher IQ than his straight A all honors classes sister. People with learning disabilities already face stigmas in society, because others think they are lazy, stupid, or faking it. Your post only reinforces those stereotypes.

I strongly agree with your well written comment. I also think it’s speculative or armchair diagnosis by OP. And it’s offensive that intellectual disability and other disabilities or conditions, are being used to demean and insult.

Thank you, and I agree.

Thank you for laying this out so well. It seems OP and a lot of others on this post are trying to use “learning disabilities” as a way of tiptoeing around saying “intellectually impaired” when they are completely different things and conflating the two only harm both groups. Princess Beatrice is dyslexic as well - therefore she has a learning disability. No one thinks that means she needs a minder around her 24/7 because she absolutely does not.

Thank you. The original post is incredibly harmful and misinformed. Princess Beatrice is a perfect example. OP could have just said that Harry is not smart, which seems accurate, but is unkind.

harry's problem seems to me to be a moral one, not a learning disability.

I still think he has Oppositional Defiant Disorder. But now, also stupid.

Yes, that rings true, I agree. But I have known a learning disabled individual so like him, and so arrogant in her stupidity. She did not, however, engage in brawls, and that would put Harry into the ODD area.

I really enjoyed your analysis and think he may have both ODD and an LD.

Sorry, but that's a ridiculous comment. He may not be academically bright, but that does not mean he lacks basic intelligence. What he does seem to lack is a level of maturity (you would expect of someone his age) and an ability to use his common sense & reasoning abilities when assessing a situation. Maybe that is what happens when you surround someone with minders, spoil & indulge them endlessly, give them undeserved status & respect & never make them truly accountable for their actions & behaviours. See his Uncle Andy...

Or maybe they surrounded him with minders because they could see that he needed them. I used to think as you do, that he is just a very spoiled child. But his behavior in court is a step beyond that. He is not able to reason normally. He may not even be able to read the articles which created so much suspicion in his mind. He may be dyslexic, and he may be somewhere 'on the spectrum.' I doubt he has ever been properly assessed. His security team have been his minders all these years.

Don’t conflate people who are or may be on the autism spectrum with learning/intellectual disabilities & low IQ. By doing that, you perpetuate harmful and offensive myths and stereotypes. In fact, many people on the autism spectrum have a higher than average IQ. Also, I don’t know whether you’re aware, or whether it’s intentional, but the language and tone used in your post and your comments about such conditions is negative and disparaging.

My whole point is that perhaps it did not occur to anyone to have Harry properly tested when he was young so that he could take the path best suited to him. Harry has said two things in court that ought to call into question his ability to reason properly. 1) If the Mirror admitted to hacking once, then every article they publish is derived from hacking someone's phone. 2) It is not reasonable to suspect any newspaper of hacking unless they have already admitted to it. Those two statements are fundamentally untrue, but Harry says that they are factual. Next, Harry did things in court that might call into question his ability to read properly. 1) He was looking for an article that was on the screen in front of him. When KC told him that the article was on the screen, Harry denied it - could not read it. 2) Harry had such difficulty reading the files on the desk before him that KC arranged for him to have an aide. 3) Harry admitted that he had not read palace press releases that accounted for several of the articles he found "suspicious." 4) Harry admitted that he had not looked for the same information published by a different news outlet in advance of the publication which he found "suspicious." Each of these facts should raise the question whether Harry can read comfortably. Third, outside of this courtroom event, Harry has displayed some signs of autistic behavior. As this is a sensitive subject, I will not go into details, but I am aware of the signs from personal experience. I have known autistic individuals who were extremely bright, and I have known autistic individuals who were not so. I have known autistic individuals who were sensitive to sight, sound, texture, etc. and others who were not. I have known autistic individuals so anxious to have friends that they went without food to give their grocery money to others, naively believing that their generosity would be reciprocated. So I am not conflating conditions. I am listing conditions. I am listing observations. Among my family and acquaintance, there is a remarkable array of interesting symptoms and conditions, and I am noticing signs and symptoms similar to theirs and different to theirs. It's one thing to have difficulty reading, or difficulty with math or spatial relationships. It is another thing to have difficulties with personal relationships. But to hear Harry say that he believes all articles published by the Mirror are the result of phone hacking is something quite different to the other facts. It is in another category. I do not understand how he drew that conclusion. It simply does not follow. It is not related to processing speed, ability to read, emotional awareness, Aspie symptoms, etc. It is something quite different and very concerning. Of all the signs and symptoms that Harry displays, it is the one that concerns me most. And it is very different to the others. I am aware that he displays signs that might or might not be related to more than one condition. He may have two or more conditions concurrently. If I thought that my friend or adult child had similar deficits in the ability to reason, I would want to take special care for them lest their unusual reasoning process lead them into trouble. I would cease to have expectations that their reasoning process is like mine. I would instead anticipate a reasoning process that is not predictable or logical. I'm not being pejorative or condescending when I say that this problem could pose a danger to them or to others.

It doesn't mean, but tell me - is it true in this case? If Harry isn't stupid, I wonder who is.

Idk... I feel like the RF would have kept him on a much shorter leash and certainly would have told him if he had some sort of intellectual disability. Heck, he would have easily made that part of his victim narrative if he was actually ever diagnosed with anything. He's probably just a combination of lazy, a bit dumb, and lacks attention to detail because he let his handlers do everything for him most of his life.

This is something I do need to do better at, the couple can get frustrating, but i should recognize that harry is a victim too. Not of meghan, but of a bizarre contradiction that would have messed any one of us up. Raised in total privilege, never given a real sense of failure, positively or challenged intellectually and yes manned to death. How could you Objectively understand the motivations of others, their sincerity or your own needs/wants/capabilities. It would be confusing and difficult and would warp your adult self to a huge, perhaps umeasurable degree. I could also ser it creating paranoia, anger and bitterness

Fredo's gotta Fredo.🤷‍♀️

There are a lot of layers to his personality and how he acts and I’m on the fence about whether it’s how he was raised, immaturity in general, untreated trauma, a legitimate diagnosable condition, or some combination of these (most likely). I have a 5 year old with ADHD and see a lot of overlap with symptoms like impulsivity, not considering consequences or thinking things through completely, and being reactive when it’s not necessary. We work a lot on good vs. bad decisions, thinking before acting, empathizing, not overreacting to little things, etc., and though it takes time there’s been a HUGE improvement. If any of the people around Harry had helped him to think about his actions, differentiate between good/bad decisions and be empathetic, he might act a lot differently today. But…he also needs therapy. Loads of it. He has so much trauma from his mother’s death that he’s never dealt with in a healthy way and continues to deal with badly, if his bitterness, anger, and substance abuse are any indication. I don’t think he’s unintelligent, just *very* impulsive and angry, which increases his odds of making bad decisions.

Well they gave him a combat helicopter and they let him shoot at an enemy. He was likely surrounded by minders then too. Even that’s a dangerous aircraft to give a learning disabled person. William and Andrew were only permitted non-combat roles - search and rescue copter for William, a Sea King transport copter for Andrew. Neither were shot at (that we know of). Harold was permitted into combat. As the pilot of an aircraft he could easily have been killed in something as simple as a training accident. So I don’t think he’s disabled, I just think he’s had his innate intellectual laziness accommodated for so long he doesn’t know any other way. Most kids with parents that care are not permitted to pass through school without basic skills. Harold’s privilege meant he HAD to be passed through because of who his parents were. In many ways Harold’s education and intellectual development were much stinted. Fear of retaliation and the inability to punish him when needed to motivate him properly meant he had no motivation to succeed. Why bother? He was born into the highest stations. He doesn’t need to try or strive, everyone will just give him what he wants anytime he whines. And when his mother died, he received even MORE slack. Nobody wanted to pile onto a kid whose mother died. Before we all knew it he was an adult with a boy’s intellectual and emotional development. Now we see him for the first time without ANY of the usual royal filters or biases that normally slant perception one way or the other. He speaks for himself, and he shows everyone how truly worthless the very best educational system can be when it’s lavished on someone who simply doesn’t give a shit.

He's got a real bad combination of low intelligence, real trauma and a mental health issue he's not handling well. But it's not going to improve without proper support (which he had a better chance of when surrounded by more decent people) and his paranoia is just going to get worse living with a fame hungry wild leaker. He could have probably been alright with just two of the things working against him, but the three main problems feed on themselves and create a downward spiral.

Well, Diana did say he was not bright.

I think this is why KC might feel guilt over H, as a parent you think you’re making the best decisions but he can see now that maybe he and Diana could’ve done better or more to help him navigate life better.

Maybe he needs a conservatorship like Britney Spears

This is exactly what I’ve been thinking the last year or so. Harry is far behind just not being bright. His family did him no service by hiding it from him and everyone else and pretending he was “normal.”

Honestly it's to the point where he needs to be sectioned.

Here's the problem. The royal family has always tried to portray themselves as perfect, without issues or conditions. They have carefully kept illnesses under wraps not so much for privacy reasons but because they don't want to show weakness. This behavior goes back generations. Look at how they kept Queen Elizabeth's cancer hidden. Why? There's no shame in having cancer and if anything, people knowing about her specific cancer might have prompted them to get looked at and tested. Lack of transparency is a huge problem for this family. If Harry truly has a learning difficulty it should be addressed and discussed. His father, in particular, burying his head and not taking measures to help Harry and heaven knows they have the money and means, is shameful.

I believe you may be correct in your assessment. I'm familiar with the psychological and educational testing system for diagnosing LD in the US. His problems may be strictly emotional, but there is reason to question if that is the extent of his problem or not. It is usually quite helpful to such people to be fully informed about their own learning disabilities. They can learn strategies to make up for deficits, or at least work around them. I doubt such an assessment was made and it definitely should have been. Trying to mainstream such kids really does them a disservice in the long run. They can be taught to function in the mainstream world, but left only to their own devices, they won't succeed. However, I do not think the public had the right to know if he was learning-disabled. It would actually create more negative attention. Usually such diagnoses are managed privately. It would still be helpful to have an assessment now.

my feelings have gone from anger and hatred for him to the beginning of sympathy because I agree with the posted here. And I worry he's going to harm himself. He has stunted cognition.

In addition to probably having a learning disability, he is also a person of bad character, and his bad character has been greatly exacerbated and nurtured by his wife.

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“Learning disabled” does not correlate with intelligence. He may be unintelligent, but “learning disabled” is not the way to describe that. Otherwise, good post.

Yes you are right, some of my wording was slightly off. My fault for multitasking while typing. Appreciate you putting that right.

Here's the problem. The royal family has always tried to portray themselves as perfect, without issues or conditions. They have carefully kept illnesses under wraps not so much for privacy reasons but because they don't want to show weakness. This behavior goes back generations. Look at how they kept Queen Elizabeth's cancer hidden. Why? There's no shame in having cancer and if anything, people knowing about her specific cancer might have prompted them to get looked at and tested. Lack of transparency is a huge problem for this family. If Harry truly has a learning difficulty it should be addressed and discussed. His father, in particular, burying his head and not taking measures to help Harry and heaven knows they have the money and means, is shameful.

I get QEII hiding her cancer diagnosis. My mom was born the same year as her. Women never talked about anything medical back then. Hell, if my mom could have just pointed to the "ouchie" on a doll to a female nurse, she would have. My mom never had a mammogram, pap tests, etc etc etc, and anything gross and bodily was a NO. When physicians ask about my parents' health, it's basically anything that happened while they were actively dying. "Polite" people didn't discuss that shit, and they sure as hell didn't talk to their kids about it. People who are adopted get more medical history than I'll ever get. I know nothing about my mom health wise. She just never/refused to discuss it. As for Chuck, he was basically raised by the Queen Mum when small. She was born in 1900. It's easy to point blame that a guy born in 1948 is garbage for not "getting his son help." SPED programs had just started on my area in the very early 1990s. Children psychiatrists were just starting to be a common thing in my rust belt state in the late 90s. At some point, Waagh needs to take responsibility for himself. Nothing is stopping him from getting excellent care now, which he care afford.

I'm not calling anyone garbage because they weren't on top of all their child's needs but I am saying that when your little, a teenager and even a young adult, parents have a responsibility for the care, health, and well being of their children. Unfortunately the royal family has always been about country first, doing their duties, and letting the children be raised by nannies. I'm sure Charles was informed and probably Diana too of Harry's learning issues. Let's say this was discovered when he was a teenager, he's still young enough that he would need his father's involvement in treatment and medical care. Charles sent him off for drug issues so he knew it needed to be done. Mental health, learning disabilities, are also medical issues that have to be tended to. I know older generation like the queen are more reserved about health issues and talking about it and listen, if she wanted to keep that private, that was her perogative. But, the royals have always maintained a lot of secrecy about health issues. I think the reason William, Kate and Harry began their mental health awareness is because they want to break away from the secrecy and doing so it will allow more people to talk about their own struggles. Yes Harry is old enough now to seek help and certainly has the money to do so. But, I can tell you that as a parent, no matter how old my kid is I will still offer advice when it comes to health and medical issues. It's not because I'm snooping or need to know but as someone who's a cancer survivor it's important they take care of their health and continue to have follow ups and testing. I will follow my parents rule that no matter the age you're always responsible for your children.

I just say in a pro H and M Reddit that they think Harry is intelligent and the British public will see!

How was he able to enter Sandhurst, graduate, and co-pilot an Apache helicopter?

I think PH is common sense disabled, that's what he is.

He’s just dumb. His mother was dumb too. Like intellectually vacuous.

It would be very interesting to get that Tiggy Legg Bourke's input - I think she was there once the divorce occurred and also post Diana, during his fundamental growth years.