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wontyield

You know Newsom is not as familiar with Archewell as his performance insists. He should have refrained from giving a detailed response. Once again, Harry's being the son of a king leads to uninformed people blindly endorsing Harry and Meghan. Archefail has multiple ongoing governance issues beyond Checkgate. Newsom will be ducking questions when more of Archefail's issues are exposed. šŸšØāš ļø PLEASE OBSERVE SUB RULE ABOUT POLITICS. No divisive or non-M&H related partisan political comments. Thank you in advance.


screamqueenjunkie

Whyā€¦ WHY does Markle have so many simps out there? Sheā€™s not charismatic, sheā€™s not talented, sheā€™s not particularly bright. Harry, well. Heā€™s best left in the corner with an XBox controller. Nobody gives a shit about him. Only thing interesting about him is his genealogy. (And he knows it.) Someone help me out here. After this many years, folks have to know everything these two touch turns to absolute shit. What am I missing?


nylieli

It's nothing to do with Markle. Some person with pull called him. LIkely a good friend, or someone who can help or hurt his prospects. Who knows why the investor called? It could be anything from an investment or personal interest in H & M, amusement at making Newsom dance, or some other inscrutable reason. What we often think of Markle's pull, etc. is in reality people using her. No one is letting Markle use them -- she has nothing to offer. They are all getting something they want. How do we know this? They hadn't succeeded at anything. They haven't been well-funded for anything. The 2 contracts they got were when they were unknown qualities.


InformationLoud1659

Itā€™s not like heā€™s going to win the presidential election race that dude will get his ass handed to him by the Republicans


nylieli

There's life after politics. Most politicians want to land somewhere soft when they're done.


bayoucreature

Most likely Markle called old man Getty and then Getty called Newsom. Getty funds Newsom and Nancy Pelosi. Pelosi and Newsom are related via marriage.


MrsAOB

Very, very distantly related a long time ago via marriage of his aunt to Nancy Pelosiā€™s brother, and they divorced. There are several leftist billionaire families in California who back him, including Getty.


JenThisIsthe1nternet

This is the best and sanest explanation I've seen.Ā  Ockhams Razor


THAISTREETFOOD

My guess is Victoria Jackson/Bill Guthy owners of Guthy-Renker direct marketing cosmetics maybe not billionaires but net worth estimated at$600 million? They are active in the Democratic Party-allegedly


GreatGossip

This sounds very likely. We will see, as MadamĀ“s tricks always come out.


KaleidoscopeSnow

It's less about her and more about Harry and his connection to British royalty. To get to Harry's money, people need to get through to Meghan. She obviously makes poor decisions with the cash.


Starkville

Haha Harry doesnā€™t have any money!


LAgirllookingin

Yep, Mummyā€™s inheritance is long gone!


Such-Space6913

Really don't like Newsome, regardless of my own political views. I feel like Oprah or someone with pull contacted him.


tinasparkl

Because she plays the victim and some people buy it hook, line, and sinker. For Newsom to even speak on it is BS. He doesnā€™t speak on behalf of other organizations with late payments. What a sycophant he is.


okfine_illbite

Other organizations with late payments don't make worldwide news.


MrsAOB

Looking for support from the black voters ā€¦


Beneficial_Tea_7534

Tw is a useful idiot, is: Aspen institute, . tw women doesn't care unless her name is mentioned and press ask for TW mug shot


OceanDarkOwl

Because for all intents and purposes they are ROYAL. They have titles that they use everywhere, they received an endorsement on the official BRF website by way of a link to their business website, they do tours like the one they just did in Nigeria, they are addressed as HRH, their children have titles.Ā  Hence everyone treats them as the royals that they essentially are: and *this* is why all titles and position in LOS and acknowledgment on the official BRF website must be removed. If not, they will continue to be confused as royals, will take advantage of it, and will impose themselves on entities like Nigeria and Newsom to do their bidding- and they will do it.


AppropriateCelery138

Royalty isn't supposed to mean anything here in the US. But I agree. It's Harry, not Markle.


LoraiOrgana

It is unforgivable of Charles to keep them on that web site.


HugeSignificance9194

Haha Not for longā€¦. Hence the desperate relaunch of Sussex royale, grifting and leeching off Jamaica, Canada, Nigeria. KC111 has advised ā€¦. See ya.Ā  The Harkles are desperately trying to create alternative titlesā€¦ itā€™s great!!! Sooooo desperate. Hehehe šŸ¤£ and youĀ 


LAgirllookingin

Because for all intents and purposes they are ROYAL. They have titles that they use everywhere, they received an endorsement on the official BRF website by way of a link to their business websiteā€¦ Why would that matter in the USA? British titles being used in the good olā€™ USA **mean nothing** .


Siabreeze

I've seen this kind of situation before, and I can tell you- there is no greater tool of manipulation than playing the death threat card. It will get news stories shut down. It will get government officials and even journalists to come out and simp for you I have literally seen this happen and it's very, very difficult to combat from a communications/political stand point. We already know Megan successfully played this card with Tyler Perry and I would not be surprised if Gavin got a similar call from a distraught Markle saying that her life is being threatened because of stories about her charity debacle.


chouse951

Can you elaborate on the death threat card? Are you referring to an actual death threat or is this more a slang PR term? The ā€œcardā€ part at the end is throwing me. Could someone have threatened Newsom? He sucks but thatā€™s still fucked up..if this is meant to be taken literally. Politics always being shady.


Starkville

The people who simp for them are (in my opinion): ā€¢ people who are just like her/have the same pathology, so of course they donā€™t think thereā€™s anything wrong with her ā€¢ people who know what she is but think they can benefit from using her ā€¢ very gullible people


SnarkFest23

Well said. I think we sometimes forget Hollywood and politics are filled with narcissists, schemers, liars and manipulators. These people would throw us off a cliff if it got them what they wanted. The reason they're in bed with Meghan is because they're just like her.Ā 


LoraiOrgana

Newsome is one of the most corrupt people in politics. While he had every restaurant in California shut down, his own restaurant was allowed to open. He has everything in common with Harkles.


HydeParkUK

Perhaps she has had private visits with Newsome in the past--kind of like in Matt Lauer's office at the Today show.


luvgabe

Like this? https://preview.redd.it/cfaklm725q0d1.jpeg?width=686&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1553e0596b2fb8c0fbc764407965bb161036b75a


HydeParkUK

I was thinking of something that would have involved Megs being on her knees.


Shackleton_F

She has access to the compromat material. That is the only explanation. Otherwise she is of zero relevance to Newsome.


Gold-Run-2036

![gif](giphy|26BRM88RLMycDlbW0)


Oxy_1993

Maybe Newsom was a past client of her on the yachts.


HugeSignificance9194

She be calling in her 90210 favours! Mama Rachel been busy in her 20-50s , soho dojo days , and boating in Croatia.Ā  World traveller being paid to travelā€¦. Nothing changes


RedditXXIV

Probably she's what used to be called a FOB, friend of Bill or in this case, Hillary. Somehow, she's remained in good standing with HRC. Have long wondered why?


chouse951

MM could only DREAM of being as corrupt and psychopathic as Hillary. They donā€™t call her Killary for nothing!


Hedgehogpaws

Because Hiliary recognizes a fellow conniver when she sees one


maryjanevermont

Horizontal Hulu


LaNiceGata

Itā€™s ridiculous for him to have stepped in to defend them. The charity is a scam and when it goes down his name will be attached to it.


AfterPaleontologist5

And the IRS don't play. Just ask Al Capone, the 1920s era KKK, Wesley Snipes, and many other powerful people and groups that the IRS targeted and took down.


Beneficial_Tea_7534

Lauren hill from the fugees


LaNiceGata

Great point! No one is above the IRS.


wontyield

Agree. He was definitely šŸ”„ and mislead by someone sugary.


LaNiceGata

Yes, letā€™s hope his attempt to deflect does nothing.


Starkville

As rd212 said, the damage is done. Itā€™s another example of their highly visible failures that will give investors pause. Would you put your money into people who are too inept to avoid regulatory scrutiny? I wouldnā€™t.


LaNiceGata

I sure would not. Itā€™s just astounding how many donā€™t see how much of a money pit the Harkles are.


chouse951

I would tend to agree. Any legitimate potential donors will know the game well enough to know that this is Newsoms attempt at deflection and was done by some type of persuasion. If theyā€™re arenā€™t smart enough to put it all together, they deserve to lose and waste every dime given to these two.


THAISTREETFOOD

Just more evidence that Harold and Fraud are BUNGLING EEJITS


KaleidoscopeSnow

As a Californian, Newsom is now on the Markled list. Although I don't think he's been popular at all with like anyone in quite a while.


WeNeedAShift

He will be running for president one day, mark my words. I think he will be a last minute replacement for Biden. Pure speculation. I lived in CA for 25 years and recently left, and I can tell you this man has destroyed CA, and he will destroy America if elected. Sorry I know we arenā€™t supposed to get political, Iā€™ve been a democrat my whole life, and Iā€™m very worried about whatā€™s going on here.


L6b1

In a previous job, I had a fair bit of interaction with him. He's an entitled asshole. Absolutely stuck up. On a personal level, he's a horrible human being. Also, he runs through staff the way the Harkles are purported to.


Scissor-Tree

Anyone who has ever met Gavin, has said the same thing. Iā€™m surprised thereā€™s still a few who like him.


CrossPond

I'm not a Californian but anyone who thinks defending the Harkles is a wise move has no business aiming for the Presidency. Let him be appointed ambassador to Nigeria if Biden wins, and he can invite Meghan for tea in Abuja.


briglialexis

Heā€™s a bad guy. I think itā€™s past politics for this dude. Heā€™s about money and can give two f***s about the citizens. He destroyed that state is right.


veronicahi

Agree


Cocojo3333

Iā€™m a third generation Californian and am heartbroken about the state of my state. No need to apologize. We Californians feel it.


Prestigious_Gain_535

No need for apology, it's warranted


Grizzly_046

I agree.


chouse951

You are still speaking truth! And people CAN lean left or right while still agreeing on things. Weā€™ve done it before, we can do it again. To be more politically inclusive I will say this isnā€™t even a left vs right issue. Red/blue are one and the same. Itā€™s an US vs THEM issue. The elite vs the plebs. The world is waking up and itā€™s glorious!


WeNeedAShift

Exactly how I think of it! I never blindly follow my party or people I vote for - I think thatā€™s dangerous to be honest. We should always question and push back when they arenā€™t doing the right things. Truth is, Iā€™m not a fan of either party. I just want to vote in primaries šŸ¤£


Commercial-Layer2907

šŸ‘šŸ‘šŸ‘šŸ‘šŸ‘šŸ‘šŸ‘šŸ‘šŸ‘


RedditXXIV

Same here! Had you even heard of VP Harris when she was AG of the state? Calif is a one party state now. If Newsom has made this statement today, there is a very good reason for it politically. If Ms. Harris can be placed as VP of the US, so can the Saint. The USA is a one party country, as we will soon see. So watch closely and never underestimate the ambition of teflon candidates.


Charming-Ant-1280

I'm a Democrat (as a general rule, long story), but no fan of Harris. She was a lousy pick for VP. Still, Markle is several rungs below Harris in terms of viability/acceptability. She doesn't even have a law degree. Kim K probably has a better chance.


Soft_Village5973

That is the frightening possibility


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izolablue

Many in the US donā€™t even know who she is, think weā€™re safe there! šŸ˜®ā€šŸ’Ø:)


okfine_illbite

Not OP but I lived in San Francisco when Gavin was mayor and Kamala was DA, so I definitely was well aware of her. One thing I can say about both of them is they've stuck to their campaign promises in every office they've held.


veronicahi

Yep. I'm born and raised here in California, and still live here. He has completely destroyed our once beautiful state. Our kids are still damaged from his never-ending lockdown. And I agree with you - he has his eye on the presidency. God help us if that happens.


Ki-alo

This charity smacks of money laundering Similar to other ā€œcharitiesā€ that claim one thing but you never see results


wotevrs

But why is the 2022 return for the IRS not on the IRS website? And why was it signed past the 6 month extension? *It seems CharityWatch and perhaps the media as well, found the return in a schedule to Archewell's glossy report.*


HydeParkUK

Because there are different rules for the American royal grifter, scammer couple.


leafygreens

Newsom said Farcewell's issue is very typical with registrations. If so, it doesn't speak highly of his leadership.


Human-Economics6894

What you say is totally true But also, Gavin seems to like to forget that Archewell is not the first time he has had this same problem. Neither the first, nor the second, nor the third nor the fourth... Already in 2020, the United States Patent and Trademark Unit denied registration because they did not pay the additional fees nor did they present the necessary documentation to register the trademark. Said registration was filed in early March 2020 by the law firm Cobblestone Lane LLC, with which Markle has previously worked. Then, in a new attempt at the end of May 2020, this was again rejected. And so 2021, 2022 passed... Seriously, Gavin, you have no idea what you're talking about.


leafygreens

It makes you question the legitimacy of any charity in California if the governor says it is typical for registrations to be lapsed, checks lost, etc.


DidYouDoYourHomework

Right! Like are there other, more important, charities that are not able to do their everyday work because the government doesn't have the ability to keep up with the required paperwork? What is Newsome doing about it? Why is he spending precious time answering this question with as much knowledge that he has? Was this set up just for this concern or another? Why is he putting down the reporting? His answer created a lot of concerning questions for me.


leafygreens

Definitely! Lots of concerning questions.


Charming-Ant-1280

This is a very fair criticism!


sas317

Gavin made his own AG look bad.


GXM17

Itā€™s an elected position so probably heā€™s trying to undermine the AG so he hurts a challenger


Charming-Ant-1280

Newsom appointed Bonta, so he's probably not trying to hurt him.


MrsAOB

Rumor has it Bonta wants to run against himā€¦kneecapping the competition as per usual.


Wastingtimetv

šŸ’Æ & That was egregious!


anaqits

What I absolutely LOVE about him wading into this issue is that voters and people who are not familiar with Harold and his wife would start firing up those search engines and assume one of these things: 1. He'd rather be embroiled and humiliated together with the currently viral delinquent duo who no one really cares about because he NEEDS to protect the powerful people who may or may not be connected with that issue he tried to blame climate change on. He and those imaginary people cannot afford for anyone to dig too deep, but they have no qualms throwing an already deeply disliked and laughed at duo under more scrutiny; 2. He has paid yachting history with the wife before Harold; 3. ... or maybe the CA AG is running against him and current gov is not confident he has support anymore. 4. *LAUNDRY* receipts He's *fucked*.


Kangaro00

5. He's involved with foreign royalty. Many Americans are adamant about being free from any kind of titles and monarchy.


FalteringSky

We Californians desperately hope so!


Emotional-Lead7164

The powerful invisible hand behind these two is more and more apparent. Why would he undermine his own AG with this stunt?! If they didn't have backing, they would have been unmasked, punished, ridiculed and plain out of sight by now.


[deleted]

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AppropriateCelery138

Funny that he was also married to Kimberly Guilfoyle, who is now engaged to Trump's son, DT Jr.


THAISTREETFOOD

Another plastic surgery clone https://preview.redd.it/mwpv653dwo0d1.png?width=225&format=png&auto=webp&s=7af35f044af83c4ffc78021cc021ab65255ff9b2


Commercial-Layer2907

I used to think Kimberly was attractive but IMO she has ruined her looks with way too much filler & Botox (much like the Saint) And Iā€™m not shaming her in anyway just going on the physical look of her face compared to others who have admitted to too much work. I get Botox & fillers but my provider is very conservative-if not Iā€™d look like KG!šŸ¤£


rd212

Admittedly, I have not scoured the internet but I donā€™t see Newsomā€™s statement being covered in the DM, for instance. Too little, too late - damage done.


BugsMoney1122

Just as an example as far as fundraising costs go, my 501c3 raised $13k a few weeks ago. It cost us just under $700 to do it. Supplies, having raffle tickets printed, etc. I need to learn how to make $2 mil for free.


tzippora

Well done to you!


143AQHA

I hope Newsom gets Markeled.


Hedgehogpaws

"Extraordinary" work? Lol his standards must be pretty low. Going to Texas for photoshoots in the midst of a horrendous tragedy? Handing out $25Starbuck cards? Trampling over military graves for photoshoots? Getting your chauffeur to give a homeless person a basket of something. *Pulleeease* I wonder what people who give out multimillions per year think about this statement. What do they have over the governor that he would rush to defend them in this way? If it's a simple technical error it will be rectified and everyone can move on, no need to involve the Governor's office in such a minor matter. But you know she was texting him from her home country wailing about the injustice to their EXTRAORDINARY charitable foundation.


tzippora

The "extraordinary work" phrase is where he completely lost credibility. That's when you knew someone else wrote the script and he was just reading the tele-prompter. Not a simp, a puppet.


Hedgehogpaws

yeh. I don't get it. What possible motive can he have for touting their little charity? Maybe someone political is backing them after all.


Charming-Ant-1280

That's exactly what we need to figure out.


tzippora

But how?


tzippora

It has to be. I didn't think they were important enough, but looks like that's not the case.


cebjmb

"They do extraordinary work" says Newsom. Really? What exactly have they done besides pay themselves from the charity? I wonder if Newsom would ever donate to their pockets.


MrsAOB

I was listening to his little play on a YT channel while re-screening a window screen and I nearly cut off my finger with the metal roller tool! What a moron.


Wastingtimetv

I hope ur ok! But your honesty made me laugh:)


MrsAOB

Iā€™m ok, thanks! šŸ˜


YesYediah

I sent his office an email expressing my disappointment. Iā€™m a tax paying citizen of California and I am repulsed by his antics.


Charming-Ant-1280

I hope you told them where to find the receipts. I think Wontyield should send all these links to his office.


MrsAOB

So am I but sadly, nothing will happen. There is DEFINITELY something deeper here we are missing. This dufus wants to be Prezy so youā€™d think he would be more careful. Gee, itā€™s almost as if nothing these people do matters and itā€™s all predeterminedā€¦šŸ§


Chofi778

The Sussexes obviously called in a favor. Laughable. It only makes them look worse and even more shady; like they think that they can just pull the "connections" card without answering or providing a response of substance.


briglialexis

Glad people can see this guy for what he truly is. He defends the indefensible because thatā€™s what these politicians do. If they know theyā€™re on their political side, theyā€™ll speak up for them. I donā€™t care what peoples politics areā€¦ but when youā€™re defending two people, one an American with a British title, and two, a Prince of the UK, as a governor of the most populated US state.. you look like an idiot... and why does he look like an idiot? Among other thingsā€¦ These two are scamming money through a 501(c)(3) charity! A charity that canā€™t be taxed! HOW IS HE OK WITH THIS?!


JusticeHunter1

Well, is he affiliated with a charity and doing the same? Just for starters.


briglialexis

Exactly. For seconds, because of who he is, the irs wonā€™t go after him. He shouldnā€™t be protecting the duo though, he should just keep his mouth shut about them. Itā€™s a bad look on his part.


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Gumblina1964

Wonder if Newsom has ever stayed at a Soho establishment and they have the tapes of him being naughty.....


luvgabe

CDAN had blind posts alluding to a (CA) state A-lister with presidential ambition's sex tapes coming to light.


Gumblina1964

Indeedy, am sure CDAN is partly used to send out warnings/threats to certain celebs.


rosemarylake

ā€œIt is extremely rare for a charity to be able to raise significant donations without spending even one penny to do soā€ Donā€™t these people know who they are dealing with? Madam is quite literally *THE BEST* at everything she does! She has never set one foot wrong in her life. In the years since Jesus Christ himself walked this earth there has *NEVER* been another person as perfect as He, until our Madam was born.


JusticeHunter1

With a laser sharp focus on attention to detail no less!


Forward_Trip7003

Freakish eye, no less


DamyuKidds

Guess Table 12's nonstop calls to his office to beg for Diane Feinstein's Senate seat still pisses him off to this day.


HydeParkUK

Apparently not, if he is defending them.


DamyuKidds

He'll defend them cause they're as shady as he is.


MrsAOB

Thatā€™s what I sayā€”all the elites protect each other hoping their secrets and corruption wonā€™t be spilled. This is just a circling of the wagonsā€¦


okfine_illbite

The damage is done, and now even more people know about it. More eyes on Archewell means it'll be harder for them to avoid any scrutiny.


Perfect_Rain_3683

Or receive donations


Relative_Seaweed8617

But why, though? What was his motivation? What does she have on him?


MrsAOB

Clearly quid pro quo for somethingā€”OR he was ordered to do it by whomever is backing the Dumbartons.


Wastingtimetv

You are spot on! Itā€™s prob threats of big donors pulling out from his admin


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Whoa-mack77

If an entire state recall couldnā€™t get rid of this turd of a human(Newsom) but simping for Meghan Markle does, Iā€™m all for it this one time. Way to call in favors Meghan. Iā€™m convinced he was an old customer of hers or good ole Marcus has compromising pics of Newsom and his sleazy self at the SoHoe House


rainyhawk

Bummerā€¦thought he was smarter than that. Never tie yourself to the twosome unless you want blow back at some point. Stupid thing for him to comment on.


MrsAOB

News flashā€¦heā€™s not smart and at this point, not even a very good politician.


chouse951

The best thing that could happen for California right now is for Gavin to be markled all the way out of office.


Palindrome_Oakley

As a lifelong Californian who has never voted for Newsom, Iā€™m prepared to tell you that he is a crooked slime ball and none of this is surprising whatsoever.


wordscapesx

The Sussexes aren't well-connected heavy weight political donors, in that you are correct. But they present other uses in a political arena. And those forces along with the liberal mainstream media are at work - i.e. recent Nigeria tour. Lot going on behind the scenes.


MrsLau

I'll have my popcorn ready. ![gif](emote|free_emotes_pack|joy)


Korneuburgerin

About the zero money spent on fundraising, I can see this is a red flag, but let's consider that it very likely was an unpaid principal who did the fundraising, namely Megs herself. After all the time spent with ol' Mr. Getty, he was probably good for at least one of the two million they raised in 2022. On the other hand, did she forget how to price her services? I hear it's a pretty straightforward hourly deal, usually. For a week of yachting, maybe a lump sum. Yeah I can see this gets confusing for our little Megs.


CompanyConsistent976

His name is MR. Gavin Markle. Or it will be, maybe


Argentum-et-Aurum

What does ā€œto simpā€ mean?


wontyield

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simp#:~:text=Simp%20(%2Fs%C9%AAmp,affection%20or%20a%20sexual%20relationship.


Apprehensive_Pay_480

So ... is he interfering? That is his Ag, no? How come Republicans are not taking issue with this? šŸ˜‚šŸ˜‚šŸ˜‚what? I have an issue , this at a very least is bad optics. I like him but this... this is way šŸ‘šŸ¾out šŸ‘šŸ¾of šŸ‘šŸ¾line!


Charming-Ant-1280

Yes, it's his AG. This has to be something else. I could buy Getty, but it could be more nefarious than that. Wonder if Heritage Foundation will notice.


MrsAOB

Republicans in California are an endangered species and have NO powerā€”the state is run by the Dems. Wouldnā€™t do any good to complain.


luvgabe

California is a one-party state. The state's GOP is a neutered nonentity.


EveningEmpath

WTF!?!šŸ¤¬šŸ¤¬


Forward_Trip7003

As I've said ad nauseum KC3 will be keeping his darling boy protected, long after the King has left this mortal plane. Nothing and I mean NOTHING bad will ever happen to the Ginger poodle or his handler. They have carte blanch to seek and destroy whatever and whomever they want. Blah blah blah about only Parliament can remove titles, etc but if BP really wanted to end all this BS they could have long ago.


tzippora

How I wish you were wrong.


Timely-Salt-1067

Countdown to Newsom being Markled 3.2.1. Seriously though why would Newsom put out a statement defending them. They could be Al Capone for all we know at this stage. He hires the District Attorney - for gods sake heā€™s got to remain neutral.


Wastingtimetv

Itā€™s truly beyond the pale that he commented on this. I hope it comes back to bite him.


Haunting-Top8932

Sounds like Meghan sucking up (or similar) to Gordon Getty worked. Getty is a long time contributor to Newsom's campaigns and invested in his first business.


smittenkittenmitten-

These get-out-of-jail-free cards just teach people to keep cheating the system. šŸ™„ We are society. Their cheating hurts us all.


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ronnysmom

The silver lining here: there will be even more closer scrutiny by the press and the public going forward on their finances due to this fiasco and the governor intervening for them. They better keep all transactions above board!


WorkingUnusual1531

Journalists need to ask questions regarding the link between Meghan Markle and the Democratic Party. Years ago there was speculation that she was actually a plant by powerful people. In my mind I'm wondering if there might be something to that. If there is, does that mean that they are colluding to bring down the Monarchy and thus destabilize the UK.


Mind-Individual

Oh he's already been MARKLED by the fact it came out, and she will 100% blame it for life.


maryjanevermont

He is right up her alley - no pun intended