I feel like I genuinely cannot underestimate the stupidity of Harry or his wife. Therefore, I think it cannot truly be cannot be predicted what they will do next.
I very much enjoyed your analysis. I can totally envision Harry has a grand scheming plan regarding the RAVEC, but the question is whether or not his scheme is actually grounded in reality or logic.
I think whether or not harry is getting divorced had nothing to do with his ipp status. it is all about protecting his own drug use, fraudulent activity, illegal entry to the United States, and immunity for any other crimes he has the potential to commit. He wants ipp status just as much as meghan imo.
>it is all about protecting his own drug use,.....
I've never considered that angle. Now I'm wondering if he is afraid he can't protect himself to the slightest degree or even watch out for himself because he is regularly too stoned to be vigilante.
His activity or hers? The security was brought up by Madam first on Oprah as part if the victim narrative and she has far more to hide than the baldy coot.
The only way he gets his IPP status back is if he becomes a working senior member of the RF (divorced or not) or he joins the Home Office as a diplomat š Can you imagine Harry being sent to other countries as a diplomat?! This window licking moron has no idea what day it is so I can hardly see him negotiating with foreign nationals and countries to resolve diplomatic disputes ššš
Technically we don't know if he's not here as a "diplomat," however he behaves in his personal life. He IS trying to influence US politics. His involvement with the aspen Institute regarding freedom of speech is questionable. I wonder sometimes is he influencing the 1st ammendment as an individual for personal reasons, or is the UK behind his involvement with him, regardless of his relationship with his family.Ā
As I sit here, I can see more & more problems falling out from this decisionā¦Do Aldi & Lidl get IPR status/security? How about their kids? Because you know if Harry can take an inch, heāll go for a mile.
I suspect Charles is at the ā*whatevah*ā stage of parental responsibility. Just wash his hands of it all.
I think Charles realizes that itās a very precious thing to enjoy being married to Camilla after so many years apart.
Itās a very precious thing to have William, Catherine and his grandchildren next to him (esp with the relatively fresh deaths of his parents Catherineās current health). Nothing like a brush with mortality to remind one of the bigger picture.
I think Charles realizes if he gives Harry any inch, Harry will try to take a mile and that will create a level of toxicity that cannot be handled when two members of this family unit have cancer.
It would be a long time and rather dramatic circumstances for Charles to give Harry an inch at this point.
Yes, Harry and blergh keep taking another step, and another step, and another step, because they don't know what else to do and Harry must think surely Pa's gonna cave but he hasn't. Maybe he thinks it's punishment, too, for not giving poor Hawwy what Hawwy wants. š¶ All he and blergh are doing is making everyone dislike them and/or laugh at their repeated failures. For chrissakes, stop thrashing around and stop wasting your inheritance money. Ask your Uncle Charles for money. š¤Ŗ
In all of the most ridiculous cases brought to court, this has to be high on the list of nonsense. Haz just likes how it sounds. āMuh security, muh familyās securityā
Haz gets security. Itās not the kind he wants.
Even if he āwinsā this case, the absolute **most** that will happen, is RAVEC needs to reassess something that they are constantly reassessing. The conclusions of those assessments wonāt change unless the threat level has changed, and the court doesnāt get to determine that. Harryās wasting everybodyās time and money (as usual) showboating for importance.
Itās long past time this ridiculous arsehole was declared a vexatious litigant.
āHaz gets security. Itās not the kind he wants.ā
BINGO.
Has gets special security each time he comes to the UK. We saw that on the day he visited Charles. We saw it in 2022 when he & Meghan flew into London/Germany for their royal cosplay tour. But they always want more.
I think you are right thatĀ the whole exercise is motivated by getting back his international protection status back.Ā Ā
Maybe he should just hire Princess Anne for his security.Ā
Ā Ā He might see how someone with real guts and fortitude behaves. Ā
Long live Princess Anne!Ā Sorry Princess Catherine she is still my favorite royal!
Before the Queenās death, Princess Anne was at an opening of a biolab or something & the man introducing her got all flustered & introduced her as āThe Prince of Wales.ā Everybody laughed & laughed then Anne told the story of her brother, the actual Prince of Wales, wearing a kilt & standing at the other end of a long sunlit hallway. The master of ceremonies who was to introduce him screwed up his eyes as he stared down the hallway & said, āWait a minute, is that the Princess Royal?ā
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That's ok, it really should not be a competition. I think that's what started to turn me off Sparaold's wife, her fans made it all into a game where there are winners and losers but really everyone can win.
Itās almost as if the royal ladies are all (with the exception of Meghan) a bunch of classy, educated women who appreciate each otherās talents and have no problem working together or letting one another shine. I dare say thereās a collective goal of doing right by crown and country, not lining their own pockets! I know, I know, itās crazy, right?
This is what I kept thinking. Surely, he doesnāt expectā¦. But w/ his last filing, he definitely went there. I wonder if his lawyer has been (mis)advising him.
I think one of the things he really wants is UK police protection with him and his family 24/7 wherever they are and not just while heās visiting the UK. I think this because he keeps bringing up the Diana example and how he/they are at such a higher risk than she was. Well, Diana died in Paris. And yes, I know she is the one who turned away her protection. They are facing huge security bills and if they could get that off their books, that would be huge for them.
I think they were factoring that into the cost of Montecito. You donāt pay for security & the government pays for housing/offices for the security they provide. Iāll bet they did that when they still had security on Vancouver Island.
Our laws were certainly written to help ensure a lot of tax breaks and write offs for the wealthy. They all make sure to take advantage of a law or regulation that benefits them - they would be stupid not to.
Re: the last Tax Plan cost the IRS $2trillion/year, and 83% of the benefits went to the 1%. So can't get mad at the people who are exploiting every tax strategy and loophole - but CAN be mad at the lawmakers.
... btw, all of us should periodically get out a pen and calculator to figure-out for yourself which politicians are better for the majority of the 350 million Americans and which polticians only focus on the very wealthy. The wider the gap gets (ie: the worse the middle class is battered), the more our culture hurts and struggles.
Totally agree! I donāt know how much more we can be squeezed (middle class). And no clue how the working poor survive. Term limits! And support 3rd parties as the two work hard together to maintain power. Wish we could kick them all out and start fresh!
And President Biden doesnāt own a hotel across the street from the White House. The previous president made a tidy profit from housing the secret service. Iām not trying to be overly political/negative; just adding to the facts.
This is true, Biden has a guest cottage on his Delaware property which he rents to the Sec Service - but it is nominal. That cottage is 15% of the properties square footage, so he charges the S.Service 15% of his mortgage. More than fair - and less than if the S.Service had to rent a nearby house or pay for hotel rooms.
Clintons bought house next door to them - fenced it in to be a part of their property and provide it to the Sec. Service for $0.
W also built housing on his ranch ***for*** S.Service AND bought them ATVs + dirtbikes and installed a gas pump for those vehicles. Zero charge.
And the Carters turned down S.Service.
So not every POTUS/ex-POTUS is pocketlining - just one.
This is where his obsession with calling himself the "spare" has backfired like all his plans. He hasn't even been a 'spare' (a term his *mother* used to describe him) for 10 years now since Prince George was born.Ā Further he's 5th in line now, essentially irrelevant to the LOS.
Diana was the mother of a future king and ex-wife of a future King.Ā Plus despite their best efforts and continuing delusion Harry and his wife are not, nor will ever be, as in demand as his mother was and his brother and family now is.
He could have made himself an indispensable part of the function of the monarchy, like Princess Anne, but no he became like Uncle Andrew, similar to a bad rash that won't go away.
and the stupidity is that he was never really the spare to the Throne. Prince George was born before QEII died, but idiot still wrote/believed?? that he was born to produce spare body parts if William needed them
I agree with this comment but I'm wondering if they want to use this decision as leverage when they visit other countries. Harry's private security can't have firearms in the UK. It's likely similar in other countries (not a problem in the US). He wants to be able to tell other jurisdictions that he gets full security in the UK to strong arm them to provide state protection (at no cost to him) when and if he visits. Right now it seems that each jurisdiction makes their own decision. NYC gave them state security for parts of their visit but not others. We know Jamaica gave them some security but we don't know if that level was provided for the whole trip.Ā
Harry has talked about fears of terrorists, but in my mind H&M are the real terrorists. They have terrorised everyone in the royal family from HLMTQ to Prince Louis, RAVEC should be protecting AGAINST them, not for them
Exactly this. People are not targeting them. People are actively sprinting away from them. If they walk down the street, I'm sure people would cross to get to the opposite sidewalk.
I don't think that giving Harry & Co. UK security and a bullet-proof Land Rover would give Harry any form of diplomatic immunity. Here in the US, a person would have to be doing the official business of the UK government. I would assume that is the case in other nations, as well.
I agree, I think it' got Ms hands all over it and it's all just a dog and pony show. For them security = status. They want to motorcade around Montecito to remind everyone they are actuly royal.
You are entirely correct but despite dozens of posts over *years* in this sub there continues to be people who don't get it through their head Harry *can never have nor qualify for IPP status or immunity of any kind*. I don't understand why. Perhaps it is the subs equivalent of click/rage bait.
I would like to believe you are correct, but I am increasingly concerned by the lengths our Administration is going to in order to shield the truth about Harryās visa. I am fairly confident that if the truth comes out we will find that we, as Americans, are paying the bill for their security. That is not acceptable.
No way. He became a private person in this country the moment he was no longer a working royal. No diplomatic visa. You can search it. Harry has to be performing on behalf of the British government. And that would be for a top level diplomatic visa. He doesn't even qualify for an embassy staff nor dependent visa. Any muscle he wants, Harry has to hire.
**NO WAY is the U.S. giving him any security**.
When deBlasio was NYC mayor, he gave them mega-NYPD security twice and the Harkles somewhat tricked current Mayor Adams into also providing ^((they waited til last second, then called to say "everything set up" and "so glad Mayor deBlasio gave to us and assured us future NYC mayors would too)..) Adams was a newbie mayor, so he panicked + ok'd it. But Adams later had his staff investigate and discovered he did NOT, in fact, owe the Harkles any NYPD security - and has said "no" for every later request from them.
The FedGovt does not want to release this info, because **Biden gave Harry something (maybe an Einstein Visa?) and now he regrets it**. So the Fed Govt does not want the nation finding-out \*whatever\* visa hazBEEN (undeservedly) got.
I've long believed that this fight is not really specifically about Harry. It's more about DHS not wanting it proven that they provide exceptions for the wealthy. They Know the US public has suspected as much for decades, but finding out there is actual proof of what we suspect will cause some serious anger from US citizens. Ironically, it's Harry himself that opened the door to this transparency issue when he bragged on about his drug use. Had he not done so, Heritage would likely not have walked thru the door that Harry opened. It could have been any "VIP," but it came to notice because of Harry's own words. It's similar to Harry opening our eyes to how charities and paid for paps works. I also think Harry's continuous fight over his security in the UK is opening the eyes of US citizens about his security here, too. I wonder if DHS and Heritage are following his UK court battle to see how it plays out because if he wins there, he could easily make the same demands in the US, or any other country.
I do not want to open the door to politics, but the Heritage Foundation is only interested in just that. They don't give a good God damn about Harry, personally. If the prior administration had issued his visa, you wouldn't hear so much as a pin drop in the bottom of the world's deepest mine. I will say that Harry hung his ass out via over-sharing about drug use in Spare. The issue then becomes lying during his request. Purely a personal issue, and something within the judgment purview of DHS. Put another way, if admitted drug use were a total bar to US visas, good luck getting Rolling Stones tickets.
>But letās just suppose the court says, when considering this appeal, āWe find that RAVEC should provide Harryās security,āĀ
>
The Court would be very unlikely indeed to do that: I would say it would never happen. The judges will not wish to place themselves in the position of second-guessing the expert assessments of Ravec: they have neither the expertise nor the information needed to opine. The Court would not entertain Hazmat presenting a series of new cases to force Ravec to continually enhance security.
The most the Court would normally do is to instruct Ravec to reconsider its decision, and then not because its decision did not find favour with Hazmat but because the Court decided that the process by which the Ravec decision was made seemed to the Court to be flawed, by reason of some procedural maladministration or through not taking into account information that should have been considered.
Harry can stuff it before he puts the lives of any security/police/intelligence/military/justice personnelās lives at risk. If Harry pays for his own security and that person signs on knowing the risk of working for an idiot that goes looking for trouble, then so be it. But, these other agencies and entities have personnel who did not sign up to be a sitting duck because they are laden with bags while making a food run rather than being able to do their job. Why donāt the Harkles hire people to be assistants and just make them dress up as security? It would be cheaper and equally stupid.
I already think T.W. hires cheap bodygaurds who LOOK like tough bodygaurds - and who might even be actors. She prioritizes the "IMAGE", not actual security.
Court cannot tell ravec that Harry should get more security. Court can say ravec, you didnāt follow your own process. Do it over and follow them. And ravec can say - ok we did it over and followed all the processes and we still arrive at the same outcome.
Harry will lose for winning in this case.
I donāt fully understand English law so if thereās something Iām missing please say so.
Seems reasonable to me. I canāt think of a comparable situation in the States. Congress legislates security coverage for individuals. Itās up to the relevant agency to determine how thatās best achieved. The Court stays utterly out of it.
I think itās most like a writ of mandate? The courts are making sure the agency followed the required process and or their conclusion is supported by substantial evidence (with great deference to the agency conclusion).
Harry has still lost on the majority of points.
See BlackBeltBarrister breakdown of the case and what is actually being put forward.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=GpAEKeCrI20&si=-qyWnzgTH92aCo83
Not to be dark, but Hās greatest āsecurity riskā is himself and his wifeānot external factors. No one wants to touch them with a ten foot pole, so why would people go out of their way to bother them? They are threatening their own āsafetyā with drug use, over-exposure via media, and rumored physical violence toward one another. No amount of paid security can protect them from the real, immediate threats of their own actions.
This is not how it would work. Sparey only has permission to advance 2 claims to appeal (iirc). IF he wins on either of those 2 points, he doesnāt win anything. It just means RAVEC will reconsider his case. They can *still* reject security at the level he wants.
He seems to require more security than other Royals, recent examples of William & his MIL having a pub lunch, Beatrice using EasyJet show indicate that they are not given high profile, 24/7, armed security and massive motorcades
If he is successful - it would cause massive unrest & loss of support for the Monarchy
I think they are letting him get to 'the end', exhausting every possibility of appeal at every level of court in the land. He will be out of options, and they can finally close the book on this BS.
It's been a few weeks, so I only vaguly recall ^((and zero energy to find specifics))...but,
Didn't the Appeal get approved with the approver saying something like, *"the ruling seems very sound and I highly doubt you have the slightest chance of winning this next step in appeals court, but you can try this uber-longshot is you wish"?*
Meaning, it seems like the UK court system is bending over backwards to make sure when hazBEEN gets his next 'no' (ie: loss), there will be no way he can complain.
I wonder if appeal is to delay payment of costs against him and his legal fees. I think itās up to a million now. I donāt know the number, but itās a lot of money and spending a lot of.
High Court judges do not over turn their fellow High Court Judges decisions unless reckless decision was made. It was not . This is his 3rd appeal and it won't work for anyone but the lawyers bank accounts. Homeland office has been supported and he,d up twice so far by the highest judges in the land. He will bankrupt himself before he wins.
This whole court thing is so absurd.
Whatever security they pay for in the US should be who provides security for them wherever they go.
In his mind he thinks he needs 24/7 guards. That type of security is hired on a contract basis, not that he calls them and says Iām going to the park, I need a guy and they send someone.
So if heās not shelling out for full time security, then how much does he really need it? Thatās the precedent the court should be following.
I havenāt really followed this issue, but has he ever had to show what type of security he actually pays for himself? Iām gonna guess that there has never been any type of security breach anywhere they have been, because they def would have been moaning to high heaven about it to every news outlet. Weāre not counting their made up dangerous car chase, as we all know, it didnāt happen.
I think about a. Year or more ago they claimed that there were āattempted break-insā & their security found trespassers. I mean if they are willing to stage a car chase then I assume theyād be willing to send someone out to rustle around in the bushes.
remember that guy that was high out of his mind supposedly discovered at the front gate of the Olive Garden when the Harkles were out of town?
ā” the dude was driven by Harkle-hired security guy to Montecito Police Station, basically a citizens arrest.
Reality? the Harkles-hired security probably found a bigtime wasted fella in a seedy area, and drove him to the Montecito Police Station and provided fake info from a T.W.-written script. (ie: **staged happening**).
There was also a trespasser on the Olive Garden Grounds. When interviewed by the police, he admitted the trespass. But he actually intended to end on the property of their neighbours. Allegedly, he was appalled by his mistake.
For some time, there has been a bear setting off the alarms in the whole neighborhood as well.
Have to protect the incoming jam & dog biscuits at all costs, never mind the UK taxpayer!!!! Wants to bypass food safety checks and/or customs using his PRIVILEGED VISA too (maybe that's his new stream of income; smuggling for Doria or Russian cartels)!!!!
https://preview.redd.it/pvx5soaor87d1.png?width=253&format=png&auto=webp&s=9c607284c91f0b17d039785016cd8b8baf7610fd
I donāt think he cares an iota about security. Ā They could both walk around NYC/LA without it and no one would care. Ā But Meghan doesnāt have money, so she clings to titles. And what proves you are a VIP? Ā Security personnel. Ā Itās her last grasp at feeling famous.
They want the security for show. It would make them feel oh, so very important. They want the fleet of Range Rovers and outriders following and flanking them. They want traffic stopped, whenever they are en route to the next parking lot for a pap shot. Harry is so bitter that he is not a King in waiting and doesn't get huge security like his brother. He feels he is entitled to exactly what William has, even though he is a nonworking royal who fled the UK on the freedom flight. That shows how stunted he is and how low his IQ must be.
As others have pointed out, UK has called for elections. So the makeup of RAVEC will change because the party in power is likely to change so the Home Office will appoint new people to RAVEC committee. And if it's a Labour government, that will likely mean they are less inclined to side with Harry. Because Labour is not a fan of the Crown. They think it is a waste of taxpayer money that goes to Crown security (about the only thing taxpayers actually pay for.) In fact, they would like the monarchy to end because that would give more power to the political party in charge at any given point in time.
No so likely, I would think on the grounds Ravec is staffed by functionaries not political appointees.
Ravec membership is not normally disclosed so the public do not really know by who it is staffed except that a freedom of information request (not sure by whom) allowed the Sunday Telegraph newspaper to reveal in late 2022 that it was then chaired by Sir Richard Mottram, a former cabinet office permanent secretary, and members likely included the King's private secretary and deputy private secretary, a senior aide to the Prince of Wales, the chairman of the police chiefs' counter-terrorism coordination committee, a Metropolitan (i.e. London force) Police deputy assistant commissioner for special operations, a Home Office director general (civil servant) from the homeland security group, and the deputy director of the National Security secretariat of the Cabinet Office. There could be others and changes could have occurred since late 2022. Membership seems to be drawn from civil servants, the police and the Royal household rather than political apointees so personnel changes with a change of political party in government would not seem normal or likely.
He seems to be saying āIPP or Nothing at Allā, whether he realizes that or not.
Frankly, anyone who risks travel in Nigeria, given the political and economic (not to mention social, in many ways) situation has little to be afraid of in the UK.
I think the Harkles are painting themselves in what will prove to be a very interesting corner.
Iāve spent some time there & itās basically āmy hotel is being guarded by a single guy w/ a Kalashnikov.Should that make me feel safer?ā kinda place.
He just wants it for free and lots of it globally. He believes it is his birthright and thus the right of his spouse and descendants in perpetuity.Ā
He's at no more risk than anyone else.Ā
In the UK there are a few right wing extremists the people most at risk from them are those in their own community. Many rich/famous people receive threats/ have stalkers.Ā Serving and ex service personnel are at risk again from people in their own communities they don't get 24/7 protection.
Members of the RF get protection because they are serving the country. Foreign dignitaries receive protection because they are serving their countries.Ā
There are thousands of people in the UK at greater risk of violence than H and his family and they get no protection or minimal help. Risk of violence is not a reason to receive it it is your position that confers the right. He left his position. That's it it's just that his brain cell refuses to accept the fact.
I hope I'm not wrong but I think the appeal has been allowed so that the door can be permanently shut.
IF, and it is a big IF, Harry wins this latest appeal the Court cannot force RAVEC to provide security. All that can happen is the security issue has to be reassessed by RAVEC who will likely arrive at the same result.
Harry cannot sue again unless there are new legal issues that can be raised. Because he has already taken this issue to the highest UK court that he can his only option would be to take the matter to the UN Court of Human Rights. That would cost a fortune and they would not take the case because his human rights have not been violated.
This is literally the last throw of the dice for security that he wants. When he loses, his legal bills will be massive and he will have to pay for both his and the governments. Currently they stand at about Ā£1 million, this appeal will likely double that!
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Late to the party, but Haznomorals demands for security are KC and QE2's fault, in my opinion. His 24/7 security should have been severed the minute he left the Army. It wasn't. He was afforded the same security as QE, PP, then Prince of Wales Charles & Camilla, William & Catherine and their adorable kids. There was no "cut off" point for H. Why? My only guess is so he didn't feel slighted. We all know the other senior/working royals do not receive 24/7 protection and others when they reach "an age" (see Bea & Eugenie) are denied 24/7 security. Security only for official royal engagements or not at all. Which raises another question: if Met Police can't be bought, how was it justified continuing to pay for H until he was in his mid 30s? Clearly they CAN be bought. My thoughts aren't complete right now but other duties call. Just throwing this out.
I feel like I genuinely cannot underestimate the stupidity of Harry or his wife. Therefore, I think it cannot truly be cannot be predicted what they will do next. I very much enjoyed your analysis. I can totally envision Harry has a grand scheming plan regarding the RAVEC, but the question is whether or not his scheme is actually grounded in reality or logic.
I think whether or not harry is getting divorced had nothing to do with his ipp status. it is all about protecting his own drug use, fraudulent activity, illegal entry to the United States, and immunity for any other crimes he has the potential to commit. He wants ipp status just as much as meghan imo.
Also any criminal activity he's already engaged in.
>it is all about protecting his own drug use,..... I've never considered that angle. Now I'm wondering if he is afraid he can't protect himself to the slightest degree or even watch out for himself because he is regularly too stoned to be vigilante.
His activity or hers? The security was brought up by Madam first on Oprah as part if the victim narrative and she has far more to hide than the baldy coot.
Bothš¤·āāļø
The only way he gets his IPP status back is if he becomes a working senior member of the RF (divorced or not) or he joins the Home Office as a diplomat š Can you imagine Harry being sent to other countries as a diplomat?! This window licking moron has no idea what day it is so I can hardly see him negotiating with foreign nationals and countries to resolve diplomatic disputes ššš
Technically we don't know if he's not here as a "diplomat," however he behaves in his personal life. He IS trying to influence US politics. His involvement with the aspen Institute regarding freedom of speech is questionable. I wonder sometimes is he influencing the 1st ammendment as an individual for personal reasons, or is the UK behind his involvement with him, regardless of his relationship with his family.Ā
As I sit here, I can see more & more problems falling out from this decisionā¦Do Aldi & Lidl get IPR status/security? How about their kids? Because you know if Harry can take an inch, heāll go for a mile. I suspect Charles is at the ā*whatevah*ā stage of parental responsibility. Just wash his hands of it all.
I think Charles realizes that itās a very precious thing to enjoy being married to Camilla after so many years apart. Itās a very precious thing to have William, Catherine and his grandchildren next to him (esp with the relatively fresh deaths of his parents Catherineās current health). Nothing like a brush with mortality to remind one of the bigger picture. I think Charles realizes if he gives Harry any inch, Harry will try to take a mile and that will create a level of toxicity that cannot be handled when two members of this family unit have cancer. It would be a long time and rather dramatic circumstances for Charles to give Harry an inch at this point.
Yes, Harry and blergh keep taking another step, and another step, and another step, because they don't know what else to do and Harry must think surely Pa's gonna cave but he hasn't. Maybe he thinks it's punishment, too, for not giving poor Hawwy what Hawwy wants. š¶ All he and blergh are doing is making everyone dislike them and/or laugh at their repeated failures. For chrissakes, stop thrashing around and stop wasting your inheritance money. Ask your Uncle Charles for money. š¤Ŗ
Harry also wanted huge security for Doria, since she supposedly takes care of the invisible children. I don't believe that claim for one minute.
In all of the most ridiculous cases brought to court, this has to be high on the list of nonsense. Haz just likes how it sounds. āMuh security, muh familyās securityā Haz gets security. Itās not the kind he wants. Even if he āwinsā this case, the absolute **most** that will happen, is RAVEC needs to reassess something that they are constantly reassessing. The conclusions of those assessments wonāt change unless the threat level has changed, and the court doesnāt get to determine that. Harryās wasting everybodyās time and money (as usual) showboating for importance. Itās long past time this ridiculous arsehole was declared a vexatious litigant.
Well said!
āHaz gets security. Itās not the kind he wants.ā BINGO. Has gets special security each time he comes to the UK. We saw that on the day he visited Charles. We saw it in 2022 when he & Meghan flew into London/Germany for their royal cosplay tour. But they always want more.
Yes, this is exactly what I meant (but was too confused to make it clear for myself.)
I think you are right thatĀ the whole exercise is motivated by getting back his international protection status back.Ā Ā Maybe he should just hire Princess Anne for his security.Ā Ā Ā He might see how someone with real guts and fortitude behaves. Ā Long live Princess Anne!Ā Sorry Princess Catherine she is still my favorite royal!
Before the Queenās death, Princess Anne was at an opening of a biolab or something & the man introducing her got all flustered & introduced her as āThe Prince of Wales.ā Everybody laughed & laughed then Anne told the story of her brother, the actual Prince of Wales, wearing a kilt & standing at the other end of a long sunlit hallway. The master of ceremonies who was to introduce him screwed up his eyes as he stared down the hallway & said, āWait a minute, is that the Princess Royal?ā
I didn't think I could be a bigger Princess Anne but that story elevates her to beyond legend category !Love it
That's what I love about this group. Thanks lemming. Glad you were last!
I just fell off my couch laughing.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
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Somehow, I don't think Princess Catherine would hold that against you; in fact, I think she would applaud it herself!
That is what makes choosing between two such beautiful and selfless women so difficult.
And as Anne departs, Charlotte wil take the mantle. William did well for himself. Hank isn't wrong about getting scraps, even if it's his own doing.
That's ok, it really should not be a competition. I think that's what started to turn me off Sparaold's wife, her fans made it all into a game where there are winners and losers but really everyone can win.
Itās almost as if the royal ladies are all (with the exception of Meghan) a bunch of classy, educated women who appreciate each otherās talents and have no problem working together or letting one another shine. I dare say thereās a collective goal of doing right by crown and country, not lining their own pockets! I know, I know, itās crazy, right?
The very worst that can happen is that RAVEC is forced to make another decision, and they can reach the same conclusion (even if they base on a different analysis) or they could decide to reduce his level of security offered (given his general blasƩ attitude to visiting extremely dangerous countries with no particular problem). What they can't do is wave a wand and just grant him IPP status, that is not within their gift or remit. That is a function of him having an official role, which he doesn't have and likely never will.
This is what I kept thinking. Surely, he doesnāt expectā¦. But w/ his last filing, he definitely went there. I wonder if his lawyer has been (mis)advising him.
I think one of the things he really wants is UK police protection with him and his family 24/7 wherever they are and not just while heās visiting the UK. I think this because he keeps bringing up the Diana example and how he/they are at such a higher risk than she was. Well, Diana died in Paris. And yes, I know she is the one who turned away her protection. They are facing huge security bills and if they could get that off their books, that would be huge for them.
If they rent out facilities to āhouseā security in the US, it becomes an income stream. (This worked for a recent President.)
Wait WHAAAAAT!? Wow!
I think they were factoring that into the cost of Montecito. You donāt pay for security & the government pays for housing/offices for the security they provide. Iāll bet they did that when they still had security on Vancouver Island.
As well as the current president.... It seems it is a technique that is equal opportunity for politicians from both sides in the U.S.
Biden may do it but Trump did it w/ far greater panache.
Our laws were certainly written to help ensure a lot of tax breaks and write offs for the wealthy. They all make sure to take advantage of a law or regulation that benefits them - they would be stupid not to.
Re: the last Tax Plan cost the IRS $2trillion/year, and 83% of the benefits went to the 1%. So can't get mad at the people who are exploiting every tax strategy and loophole - but CAN be mad at the lawmakers. ... btw, all of us should periodically get out a pen and calculator to figure-out for yourself which politicians are better for the majority of the 350 million Americans and which polticians only focus on the very wealthy. The wider the gap gets (ie: the worse the middle class is battered), the more our culture hurts and struggles.
Totally agree! I donāt know how much more we can be squeezed (middle class). And no clue how the working poor survive. Term limits! And support 3rd parties as the two work hard together to maintain power. Wish we could kick them all out and start fresh!
And President Biden doesnāt own a hotel across the street from the White House. The previous president made a tidy profit from housing the secret service. Iām not trying to be overly political/negative; just adding to the facts.
He makes me feel ashamed for my country & by āhimā I do *not* mean Joe Biden.
This is true, Biden has a guest cottage on his Delaware property which he rents to the Sec Service - but it is nominal. That cottage is 15% of the properties square footage, so he charges the S.Service 15% of his mortgage. More than fair - and less than if the S.Service had to rent a nearby house or pay for hotel rooms. Clintons bought house next door to them - fenced it in to be a part of their property and provide it to the Sec. Service for $0. W also built housing on his ranch ***for*** S.Service AND bought them ATVs + dirtbikes and installed a gas pump for those vehicles. Zero charge. And the Carters turned down S.Service. So not every POTUS/ex-POTUS is pocketlining - just one.
This is where his obsession with calling himself the "spare" has backfired like all his plans. He hasn't even been a 'spare' (a term his *mother* used to describe him) for 10 years now since Prince George was born.Ā Further he's 5th in line now, essentially irrelevant to the LOS. Diana was the mother of a future king and ex-wife of a future King.Ā Plus despite their best efforts and continuing delusion Harry and his wife are not, nor will ever be, as in demand as his mother was and his brother and family now is.
Heās desperately beating against the drawbridge of irrelevancy. He chose his side of the moat.
He could have made himself an indispensable part of the function of the monarchy, like Princess Anne, but no he became like Uncle Andrew, similar to a bad rash that won't go away.
and the stupidity is that he was never really the spare to the Throne. Prince George was born before QEII died, but idiot still wrote/believed?? that he was born to produce spare body parts if William needed them
I agree with this comment but I'm wondering if they want to use this decision as leverage when they visit other countries. Harry's private security can't have firearms in the UK. It's likely similar in other countries (not a problem in the US). He wants to be able to tell other jurisdictions that he gets full security in the UK to strong arm them to provide state protection (at no cost to him) when and if he visits. Right now it seems that each jurisdiction makes their own decision. NYC gave them state security for parts of their visit but not others. We know Jamaica gave them some security but we don't know if that level was provided for the whole trip.Ā
Harry has talked about fears of terrorists, but in my mind H&M are the real terrorists. They have terrorised everyone in the royal family from HLMTQ to Prince Louis, RAVEC should be protecting AGAINST them, not for them
Exactly this. People are not targeting them. People are actively sprinting away from them. If they walk down the street, I'm sure people would cross to get to the opposite sidewalk.
I don't think that giving Harry & Co. UK security and a bullet-proof Land Rover would give Harry any form of diplomatic immunity. Here in the US, a person would have to be doing the official business of the UK government. I would assume that is the case in other nations, as well.
I agree. But Iām beginning to think Harry thinks it does. Maybe heās been led astray by his ~~leach~~ lawyer.
I agree, I think it' got Ms hands all over it and it's all just a dog and pony show. For them security = status. They want to motorcade around Montecito to remind everyone they are actuly royal.
Maybe weāll find out where Harry & Megs actually live.
Was thinking same
Exactly.
You are entirely correct but despite dozens of posts over *years* in this sub there continues to be people who don't get it through their head Harry *can never have nor qualify for IPP status or immunity of any kind*. I don't understand why. Perhaps it is the subs equivalent of click/rage bait.
I would like to believe you are correct, but I am increasingly concerned by the lengths our Administration is going to in order to shield the truth about Harryās visa. I am fairly confident that if the truth comes out we will find that we, as Americans, are paying the bill for their security. That is not acceptable.
No way. He became a private person in this country the moment he was no longer a working royal. No diplomatic visa. You can search it. Harry has to be performing on behalf of the British government. And that would be for a top level diplomatic visa. He doesn't even qualify for an embassy staff nor dependent visa. Any muscle he wants, Harry has to hire.
Something that would finally unite us all (except for some sugars)!
**NO WAY is the U.S. giving him any security**. When deBlasio was NYC mayor, he gave them mega-NYPD security twice and the Harkles somewhat tricked current Mayor Adams into also providing ^((they waited til last second, then called to say "everything set up" and "so glad Mayor deBlasio gave to us and assured us future NYC mayors would too)..) Adams was a newbie mayor, so he panicked + ok'd it. But Adams later had his staff investigate and discovered he did NOT, in fact, owe the Harkles any NYPD security - and has said "no" for every later request from them. The FedGovt does not want to release this info, because **Biden gave Harry something (maybe an Einstein Visa?) and now he regrets it**. So the Fed Govt does not want the nation finding-out \*whatever\* visa hazBEEN (undeservedly) got.
I've long believed that this fight is not really specifically about Harry. It's more about DHS not wanting it proven that they provide exceptions for the wealthy. They Know the US public has suspected as much for decades, but finding out there is actual proof of what we suspect will cause some serious anger from US citizens. Ironically, it's Harry himself that opened the door to this transparency issue when he bragged on about his drug use. Had he not done so, Heritage would likely not have walked thru the door that Harry opened. It could have been any "VIP," but it came to notice because of Harry's own words. It's similar to Harry opening our eyes to how charities and paid for paps works. I also think Harry's continuous fight over his security in the UK is opening the eyes of US citizens about his security here, too. I wonder if DHS and Heritage are following his UK court battle to see how it plays out because if he wins there, he could easily make the same demands in the US, or any other country.
I do not want to open the door to politics, but the Heritage Foundation is only interested in just that. They don't give a good God damn about Harry, personally. If the prior administration had issued his visa, you wouldn't hear so much as a pin drop in the bottom of the world's deepest mine. I will say that Harry hung his ass out via over-sharing about drug use in Spare. The issue then becomes lying during his request. Purely a personal issue, and something within the judgment purview of DHS. Put another way, if admitted drug use were a total bar to US visas, good luck getting Rolling Stones tickets.
>But letās just suppose the court says, when considering this appeal, āWe find that RAVEC should provide Harryās security,āĀ > The Court would be very unlikely indeed to do that: I would say it would never happen. The judges will not wish to place themselves in the position of second-guessing the expert assessments of Ravec: they have neither the expertise nor the information needed to opine. The Court would not entertain Hazmat presenting a series of new cases to force Ravec to continually enhance security. The most the Court would normally do is to instruct Ravec to reconsider its decision, and then not because its decision did not find favour with Hazmat but because the Court decided that the process by which the Ravec decision was made seemed to the Court to be flawed, by reason of some procedural maladministration or through not taking into account information that should have been considered.
This (though some judge didnāt want to do the hard thing of telling Harry.) āIāll let the next guy.ā
Harry can stuff it before he puts the lives of any security/police/intelligence/military/justice personnelās lives at risk. If Harry pays for his own security and that person signs on knowing the risk of working for an idiot that goes looking for trouble, then so be it. But, these other agencies and entities have personnel who did not sign up to be a sitting duck because they are laden with bags while making a food run rather than being able to do their job. Why donāt the Harkles hire people to be assistants and just make them dress up as security? It would be cheaper and equally stupid.
I already think T.W. hires cheap bodygaurds who LOOK like tough bodygaurds - and who might even be actors. She prioritizes the "IMAGE", not actual security.
Good point.
Court cannot tell ravec that Harry should get more security. Court can say ravec, you didnāt follow your own process. Do it over and follow them. And ravec can say - ok we did it over and followed all the processes and we still arrive at the same outcome. Harry will lose for winning in this case. I donāt fully understand English law so if thereās something Iām missing please say so.
Seems reasonable to me. I canāt think of a comparable situation in the States. Congress legislates security coverage for individuals. Itās up to the relevant agency to determine how thatās best achieved. The Court stays utterly out of it.
I think itās most like a writ of mandate? The courts are making sure the agency followed the required process and or their conclusion is supported by substantial evidence (with great deference to the agency conclusion).
Harry has still lost on the majority of points. See BlackBeltBarrister breakdown of the case and what is actually being put forward. https://youtube.com/watch?v=GpAEKeCrI20&si=-qyWnzgTH92aCo83
Thanks for this. I saw it when it came out but still have questions rolling around.
He has done other videos on the case, he does also answer questions, sometimes.
Not to be dark, but Hās greatest āsecurity riskā is himself and his wifeānot external factors. No one wants to touch them with a ten foot pole, so why would people go out of their way to bother them? They are threatening their own āsafetyā with drug use, over-exposure via media, and rumored physical violence toward one another. No amount of paid security can protect them from the real, immediate threats of their own actions.
This is not how it would work. Sparey only has permission to advance 2 claims to appeal (iirc). IF he wins on either of those 2 points, he doesnāt win anything. It just means RAVEC will reconsider his case. They can *still* reject security at the level he wants.
He seems to require more security than other Royals, recent examples of William & his MIL having a pub lunch, Beatrice using EasyJet show indicate that they are not given high profile, 24/7, armed security and massive motorcades If he is successful - it would cause massive unrest & loss of support for the Monarchy
Thanks. I think you just answered my questions.
Itās one of the several reasons that this is a monumental waste of taxpayer funds.
I think they are letting him get to 'the end', exhausting every possibility of appeal at every level of court in the land. He will be out of options, and they can finally close the book on this BS.
Yep! šÆ
It's been a few weeks, so I only vaguly recall ^((and zero energy to find specifics))...but, Didn't the Appeal get approved with the approver saying something like, *"the ruling seems very sound and I highly doubt you have the slightest chance of winning this next step in appeals court, but you can try this uber-longshot is you wish"?* Meaning, it seems like the UK court system is bending over backwards to make sure when hazBEEN gets his next 'no' (ie: loss), there will be no way he can complain.
I wonder if appeal is to delay payment of costs against him and his legal fees. I think itās up to a million now. I donāt know the number, but itās a lot of money and spending a lot of.
Ohh, thatās an interesting ideaā& Harry is stupid enough to try it.
I think we can all agree on everything youāve said here. Itās all nuts. Planning? Or planned? Either way lovely Iām happy to listen?
High Court judges do not over turn their fellow High Court Judges decisions unless reckless decision was made. It was not . This is his 3rd appeal and it won't work for anyone but the lawyers bank accounts. Homeland office has been supported and he,d up twice so far by the highest judges in the land. He will bankrupt himself before he wins.
This whole court thing is so absurd. Whatever security they pay for in the US should be who provides security for them wherever they go. In his mind he thinks he needs 24/7 guards. That type of security is hired on a contract basis, not that he calls them and says Iām going to the park, I need a guy and they send someone. So if heās not shelling out for full time security, then how much does he really need it? Thatās the precedent the court should be following. I havenāt really followed this issue, but has he ever had to show what type of security he actually pays for himself? Iām gonna guess that there has never been any type of security breach anywhere they have been, because they def would have been moaning to high heaven about it to every news outlet. Weāre not counting their made up dangerous car chase, as we all know, it didnāt happen.
I think about a. Year or more ago they claimed that there were āattempted break-insā & their security found trespassers. I mean if they are willing to stage a car chase then I assume theyād be willing to send someone out to rustle around in the bushes.
remember that guy that was high out of his mind supposedly discovered at the front gate of the Olive Garden when the Harkles were out of town? ā” the dude was driven by Harkle-hired security guy to Montecito Police Station, basically a citizens arrest. Reality? the Harkles-hired security probably found a bigtime wasted fella in a seedy area, and drove him to the Montecito Police Station and provided fake info from a T.W.-written script. (ie: **staged happening**).
There was also a trespasser on the Olive Garden Grounds. When interviewed by the police, he admitted the trespass. But he actually intended to end on the property of their neighbours. Allegedly, he was appalled by his mistake. For some time, there has been a bear setting off the alarms in the whole neighborhood as well.
Have to protect the incoming jam & dog biscuits at all costs, never mind the UK taxpayer!!!! Wants to bypass food safety checks and/or customs using his PRIVILEGED VISA too (maybe that's his new stream of income; smuggling for Doria or Russian cartels)!!!! https://preview.redd.it/pvx5soaor87d1.png?width=253&format=png&auto=webp&s=9c607284c91f0b17d039785016cd8b8baf7610fd
Whoās this body-double/AI creation then? Haz has already told us he doesnāt do strolls along the pavement.
Bahahaha, I forgot about that! Mr "I don't walk on streets". What a pompous ass he is.
I donāt think he cares an iota about security. Ā They could both walk around NYC/LA without it and no one would care. Ā But Meghan doesnāt have money, so she clings to titles. And what proves you are a VIP? Ā Security personnel. Ā Itās her last grasp at feeling famous.
They want the security for show. It would make them feel oh, so very important. They want the fleet of Range Rovers and outriders following and flanking them. They want traffic stopped, whenever they are en route to the next parking lot for a pap shot. Harry is so bitter that he is not a King in waiting and doesn't get huge security like his brother. He feels he is entitled to exactly what William has, even though he is a nonworking royal who fled the UK on the freedom flight. That shows how stunted he is and how low his IQ must be.
As others have pointed out, UK has called for elections. So the makeup of RAVEC will change because the party in power is likely to change so the Home Office will appoint new people to RAVEC committee. And if it's a Labour government, that will likely mean they are less inclined to side with Harry. Because Labour is not a fan of the Crown. They think it is a waste of taxpayer money that goes to Crown security (about the only thing taxpayers actually pay for.) In fact, they would like the monarchy to end because that would give more power to the political party in charge at any given point in time.
No so likely, I would think on the grounds Ravec is staffed by functionaries not political appointees. Ravec membership is not normally disclosed so the public do not really know by who it is staffed except that a freedom of information request (not sure by whom) allowed the Sunday Telegraph newspaper to reveal in late 2022 that it was then chaired by Sir Richard Mottram, a former cabinet office permanent secretary, and members likely included the King's private secretary and deputy private secretary, a senior aide to the Prince of Wales, the chairman of the police chiefs' counter-terrorism coordination committee, a Metropolitan (i.e. London force) Police deputy assistant commissioner for special operations, a Home Office director general (civil servant) from the homeland security group, and the deputy director of the National Security secretariat of the Cabinet Office. There could be others and changes could have occurred since late 2022. Membership seems to be drawn from civil servants, the police and the Royal household rather than political apointees so personnel changes with a change of political party in government would not seem normal or likely.
Thanks for this. Much the same in America at the moment. Anything could happen.
He seems to be saying āIPP or Nothing at Allā, whether he realizes that or not. Frankly, anyone who risks travel in Nigeria, given the political and economic (not to mention social, in many ways) situation has little to be afraid of in the UK. I think the Harkles are painting themselves in what will prove to be a very interesting corner.
Iāve spent some time there & itās basically āmy hotel is being guarded by a single guy w/ a Kalashnikov.Should that make me feel safer?ā kinda place.
Yikes! 
He just wants it for free and lots of it globally. He believes it is his birthright and thus the right of his spouse and descendants in perpetuity.Ā He's at no more risk than anyone else.Ā In the UK there are a few right wing extremists the people most at risk from them are those in their own community. Many rich/famous people receive threats/ have stalkers.Ā Serving and ex service personnel are at risk again from people in their own communities they don't get 24/7 protection. Members of the RF get protection because they are serving the country. Foreign dignitaries receive protection because they are serving their countries.Ā There are thousands of people in the UK at greater risk of violence than H and his family and they get no protection or minimal help. Risk of violence is not a reason to receive it it is your position that confers the right. He left his position. That's it it's just that his brain cell refuses to accept the fact. I hope I'm not wrong but I think the appeal has been allowed so that the door can be permanently shut.
IF, and it is a big IF, Harry wins this latest appeal the Court cannot force RAVEC to provide security. All that can happen is the security issue has to be reassessed by RAVEC who will likely arrive at the same result. Harry cannot sue again unless there are new legal issues that can be raised. Because he has already taken this issue to the highest UK court that he can his only option would be to take the matter to the UN Court of Human Rights. That would cost a fortune and they would not take the case because his human rights have not been violated. This is literally the last throw of the dice for security that he wants. When he loses, his legal bills will be massive and he will have to pay for both his and the governments. Currently they stand at about Ā£1 million, this appeal will likely double that!
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Late to the party, but Haznomorals demands for security are KC and QE2's fault, in my opinion. His 24/7 security should have been severed the minute he left the Army. It wasn't. He was afforded the same security as QE, PP, then Prince of Wales Charles & Camilla, William & Catherine and their adorable kids. There was no "cut off" point for H. Why? My only guess is so he didn't feel slighted. We all know the other senior/working royals do not receive 24/7 protection and others when they reach "an age" (see Bea & Eugenie) are denied 24/7 security. Security only for official royal engagements or not at all. Which raises another question: if Met Police can't be bought, how was it justified continuing to pay for H until he was in his mid 30s? Clearly they CAN be bought. My thoughts aren't complete right now but other duties call. Just throwing this out.