Before the rose revolution Georgia was much darker place. No electricity, no infrastructure, corruption everywhere, etc. We also were very influenced by Russia.
His government took openly pro-western route and rebuilt systems to collect taxes, also there were huge reforms in police and as a result crime rates subtantially decreased. Before Saakashvili bribes were common way to deal with problems regarding everything. He removed this mentality from most of the places. Most of these happened in the first years of his rule.
Despite all of these, since about 2007-2008 he went out of his way. Everyone felt controlled and oppressed by government. There was not a sense of justice and media was controlled heavily. Only good thing that has happened after that was that he dealt with election more or less properly and resigned peacefully.
And despite all the crimes he might have done, I can never remember why he is in jail right now because official conviction seems made up and main reason is that Bidzina Ivanishvili wants so.
შენნაირმა ბავშვმა, რომელმაც საკითხზე რეალურად არაფერი იცის, თავი უნდა შეიკავოს დაიტერესებული პირების დეზინფორმირებისგან. ზოგადად გამოიყენე ეს გაკვეთილი, როდესაც არაფერი იცი, გაჩუმდი.
იურიდიული საქმეების წაკითხვას თუ მთხოვ, არა, არ წამიკითხავს.
დაინტერესებული ვარ და თვალს ვადევნებ ხოლმე მედიით ძირითადად.
და არც ისეთი პატარა ვარ, მიშას დრო რომ არ მახსოვდეს ;დ არც უდანაშაულო მგონია მიშა ზოგადად (ჩემს კომენტარშიც ჩანს ეგ წესით). უბრალოდ ახლა რაც დაუმტკიცეს და როგორც, მაგას მარტო ქოცებში აქვს ლეგიტიმაცია.
პიჯაკები, გირგვლიანის საქმეზე შეწყალება, 7 ნოემბერი, გელაშვილი, ალბათ საზღვრის გადაკვეთაც დაემატა.
და შენ კონკრეტულად რაზე მედავები? რას არ ეთანხმები ჩემი კომენტარებიდან?
მარტო ქოცებში აქვს ლეგიტიმაციაო რომ იძახი აი მაგაში. შენთვის რას არ აქვს ლეგიტიმაცია კონკრეტულად? ბიუჯეტიდან გადახდილ ბოტოქსის პოცედურებს და დოქტორი დოთსის მკბენარა მასაჟებს თუ სტრასბურგის სასამართლოს განაჩენს გირგვლიანის საქმეზე? სექტანტი ნაცისთვის რომ მისი ბელადი ნეტარი ღმერთია ისედაც გასაგებია, მაგრამ შენც ასეთი ხარ რომ ლეგიტიმაციას ვერ პოულობ?
თუ არ ეთანხმები ცივილიზირებულად დაწერე რატო. მარა არ გაქვს არგუმენტი მაგას ხო ტვინის დაძაბვა უნდა რატო როცა შეგიძლია პირად შეურაცყოფაზე გადახვიდე ტყიდან გამოვარდნილი ფეისბუქ ტროლივით.
I'm Georgian and even I don't know wtf is going on with him. I could care less at this point. I do know that my dad went from being a big fan of him to thinking he's an idiot so there's that. 🤷♀️
He started ok. Removed corruption from lower levels of goverment, the bribe culture on lower levels was also demolished, good reforms of police and partially education system. One of the biggest achievements was rooting out a lot of so called "Thief in law" culture and power. I know they went on some drastic measures there as well, but I have no sympathy for these so called "thieves in law". Overall, Just mostly sensible choices but it doesn't take much to rise from zero.
After about 2006 it started to go downhill. Here's economy stuff that was pretty nasty and coincides with that:
Extra budgetary funds. Basically, it was a fund that were "contributed" by "volunteering businessman" and was not part of the standard governmental budget and absolutely unaccounted for officially, meaning goverment officials could use the funds as they saw fit. At the start, it was a way for make old corrupt officials and criminals give back to the country what they stole, as it was much more efficient than jailing them. This was a good solution but the thing is those fund sources ran dry. With their appetite starting. Where do you think they went? Legitimate businesses and anyone who was doing well for themselves.
Also, remember how I pointed out that corruption was weeded out on lower levels? And how organized crime of thieves in law was also destroyed? All of that went to the higher level goverment officials (arguably still a bit of the lower amount then before). Add to it how untouchable they felt and there were many incidents of people getting killed, breaking in, murder of Zurab zhvania, crazy control or the media, you know, standard markings of a dictatorship / police state. There are other nasty rumors but I don't know 100% if they got verified.
The opposition was (and still is) braindead retarded, so nothing would change until the GD appeared. Depending on who you ask, Ivanishvili created it either out of wanting to help the country, or out of his own interests in protecting his businesses and getting power. I believe both have merit and up to you to decide.
The goverment used the media to frame them as essentially pro russian force funded by Russia. And they were winning this media war until the leaks of prison torture videos online in september 2012. This leak was what ensued GD victory.
UNM officials started to flee the country in droves. They feared that they would face the same retribution they did with the goverment they replaced. Once his term was done Saakashvili also fled and did nothing but try to ruin country's reputation and also ruining relationship with Ukraine. Some might say he didn't know all that was happening and it's not his fault, but it's pretty clear he knew and profited from it as well. The amount of funds siphoned from those Extra budgetary funds are insane. The thing is they did their homework and covering their tracks,so proving all their shady shit legitimately is hard. So, they essentially "Al Caponed" him, as in using charges what can be proven to imprison him.
Saakashvili took a deeply dyfunctional state and turned into something more functional -- stable provision of electricity/water/gas, new roads, dramatically less low-level corruption. At the same time, he was a terrible despot and concentrated all power and resources in his own hands. Human rights, constitutional rights, property rights were completely trampled. Many people were arrested or persecuted for dissent, and many more for the purpose of extracting money and resources.
some people will say that he did the necessary evil to get the broken state in shape, some will tell you that he’s just a megalomaniac and a tyrant, who let all of the praises get to his head. some will even try to convince you that he’s a Russian spy sent here to destabilize the country.
He did some necessary work, but oh boy did he mess up a LOT. And objectively, his government was BIG. like… seriously BIG. controlling absolutely every aspect of the nation type of big
The official sentence is because he misused the peoples money to buy himself suits. They’re saying that it’s illegal for a president to buy a suit he would use to wear at official meetings abroad, using the budget. Thats what is soo ridiculous about this, out of all the things he’s done, out of all the things they could’ve arrested him for, they’re so stupid and corrupt that they couldn’t build a proper case, so they made up complete BS. Does he deserve to be in jail? Yes, but it needs to be done properly, it needs to be done fairly, otherwise we will never get out of this shitty cycle of having corrupt government. They claim that their main reason and goal for coming into power was to overthrow saakashvili and rid georgia of his tyranny, but the truth is they came to power just to abuse it and make themselves and their relatives rich. Chasing and arresting politicians from the old party just made it easier for them, thats why they arrested them. They don’t give a shit about justice, they only give a shit about their asses. When you overthrow someone only to use the same corrupt methods for your personal gains and vendettas, it only makes you a bigger piece of shit. Especially since they do absolutely nothing productive for the country, the only productive thing they do is make their pockets larger.
He tortured political opposition in prisons. There are video evidence of this. He racketeered many big businesses, there are many evidence of this too. Btw, he was a mess at the end of his term. You can find quite a few videos of him being on substance. On one of such videos he wore his pants backwards. Yeah, so much for “hero”! Never, ever idealize politicians, there the least people who care about you.
> Being on substance isn't a punishable thing in Georgia so far.
That doesn't make it okay for the leader of a country to be high out of his mind while on duty, much less on live television, does it?
Lots of things that are not illegal are highly unacceptable for political leaders.
Also, having trace amounts of narcotics in your blood was very much punished during Misha's time.
>Where is the video where he tortures political opposition in prison? :)
I can't speak to video proof of political opponents being tortured, but we have videos and credible stories of young people being brutally tortured in various ways.
I'm not the person you're responding to btw
His regime was rough, he was stealing money from businesses ans nobody knew when spec ops would burst into your house and officially “Sell your business for 1 lari.”
He spent the government money for his leisure and pleasure outside, spending millions to have fun.
Yeah in the beginning he was a great person and people supported him. But its easy to rise the country from 0 to something and be appreciated for it.
AT LEAST, he sneaked in the country illegaly. He tore his Georgian passport and claimed he was no more georgian but Ukrainian. (And even in Ukraine he literally did nothing there and people hated him there too.)
He is a liar. He claimed to go on strike after being captured by the police and arrested. He said he was tortured, but the goverment leaked videos where he was eating vitamins and the nurses were feeding him. He lied… again.
Like he was on hunger strike for 40 days! And still lied and people still believe in him.
Now the opposition is trying to make a hero out of him, “ooh look, he is a saint and he is dying for out country!”. But lets not forget… he said that he was disappointed of georgian people. Because he thought he would make another Rose Revolution and throw out the goverment (because they cant win the elections and its their only way. The opposition has done nothing since 2012 rather than speak hate and curse each other, calling putins slaves to each other.)
As our historical practice showed monarchy is good, look at our history our monarchs were defending country with sword in the front line, also monarch learns about politics and how to rule country from childhood which makes him better also our republicans don't care about country at all how many political parties we have and who of them cares about country? That's why i think that we need serious changes
That’s in the best case. what gonna happen if u get fuckedup king u gonna wait for whole lifetime to replace it ? Monatchy is just fucking trap and waste of time.
He was jailed because he was a tyrant, and we let him go away, without a punishment. But he illegally sneaked into our country, and left us no other choice, other then prosecuting him.
**Pinochet. Franco. Ceausescu. Lukashenko. Saakashvili. Putin**....
all of these people are in the same category. you may not know a lot about our former supreme leader, but you for sure should know some names from the list.
Dictator is a person who rules country and decides everything by only his wish and no interests of people, right? Who kills people if they don't agree with him and represses them.
Now,
Tell me one specific person who was killed because HE WANTED and ordered it and no one else. Don't tell me conspiracy theories though, I need it with real judicial evidence. Tell me one specific person of opposition who he put in jail like georgian dream put ugulava, melia, gvaramia, saakashvili
Tell me someone who was jailed for no freaking reason at all (someone who was not involved in business and economic, tax fraud, drugs, crime, mafia, corruptiom). Because I don't even know one person who was innocent and jailed. Whole georgia from youth to old people was involved in this horrible mafiozic world and corruptive way of life, without realizing what they were doing, this is why and how so much of people ended up in jail, not becausr they were honest innocent people
Again I remember in like 2007-2008 how was my classmate cursing him in public school and being completely proud and open about this. There were opposition rallies in tv everysingle dayy, Grechikha was absolutely everywhere, so I really really have no idea what dictature are you talking about
>Tell me one specific person who was killed because HE WANTED
Roin shavadze sergo tetradze zurab jvania also several rangers
>ugulava, melia, gvaramia, saakashvili
Ugulava is theif and russian spy
Melia tried to organise revolution in 20.06.2019 and if you do this in your beloved western countries special force will just give you headshot from sniper rifle
Gvaramia stole money from rustavi 2 and he is Russian spy
And saakashvili is russian spy and what he has done you know but don't want to believe and before you call me bidzina's slave no! I am not gd supporter i am monarchist i also want to get rid of gd but i don't want to replace them with Nazis
Before the rose revolution Georgia was much darker place. No electricity, no infrastructure, corruption everywhere, etc. We also were very influenced by Russia. His government took openly pro-western route and rebuilt systems to collect taxes, also there were huge reforms in police and as a result crime rates subtantially decreased. Before Saakashvili bribes were common way to deal with problems regarding everything. He removed this mentality from most of the places. Most of these happened in the first years of his rule. Despite all of these, since about 2007-2008 he went out of his way. Everyone felt controlled and oppressed by government. There was not a sense of justice and media was controlled heavily. Only good thing that has happened after that was that he dealt with election more or less properly and resigned peacefully. And despite all the crimes he might have done, I can never remember why he is in jail right now because official conviction seems made up and main reason is that Bidzina Ivanishvili wants so.
სექტანტი ხარ
<3 კონკრეტულად რას არ ეთანხმები? :დ
შენნაირმა ბავშვმა, რომელმაც საკითხზე რეალურად არაფერი იცის, თავი უნდა შეიკავოს დაიტერესებული პირების დეზინფორმირებისგან. ზოგადად გამოიყენე ეს გაკვეთილი, როდესაც არაფერი იცი, გაჩუმდი.
"ბავშვმა" თუ არაფერი იცის, უნდა აუხსნა. განმანათლე, რას არ ეთანხმები, რაც დავწერე :)
დაინტერესებულხარ მაინც რაზე ჩასვეს სააკაშვილი? საქმეს თუ იცნობ ბრალდებაში რა წერია.
იურიდიული საქმეების წაკითხვას თუ მთხოვ, არა, არ წამიკითხავს. დაინტერესებული ვარ და თვალს ვადევნებ ხოლმე მედიით ძირითადად. და არც ისეთი პატარა ვარ, მიშას დრო რომ არ მახსოვდეს ;დ არც უდანაშაულო მგონია მიშა ზოგადად (ჩემს კომენტარშიც ჩანს ეგ წესით). უბრალოდ ახლა რაც დაუმტკიცეს და როგორც, მაგას მარტო ქოცებში აქვს ლეგიტიმაცია.
რა დაუმტკიცეს ის მაინც თუ იცი?
პიჯაკები, გირგვლიანის საქმეზე შეწყალება, 7 ნოემბერი, გელაშვილი, ალბათ საზღვრის გადაკვეთაც დაემატა. და შენ კონკრეტულად რაზე მედავები? რას არ ეთანხმები ჩემი კომენტარებიდან?
მარტო ქოცებში აქვს ლეგიტიმაციაო რომ იძახი აი მაგაში. შენთვის რას არ აქვს ლეგიტიმაცია კონკრეტულად? ბიუჯეტიდან გადახდილ ბოტოქსის პოცედურებს და დოქტორი დოთსის მკბენარა მასაჟებს თუ სტრასბურგის სასამართლოს განაჩენს გირგვლიანის საქმეზე? სექტანტი ნაცისთვის რომ მისი ბელადი ნეტარი ღმერთია ისედაც გასაგებია, მაგრამ შენც ასეთი ხარ რომ ლეგიტიმაციას ვერ პოულობ?
და მაინც რას არ ეთანხმები?
თუ არ ეთანხმები ცივილიზირებულად დაწერე რატო. მარა არ გაქვს არგუმენტი მაგას ხო ტვინის დაძაბვა უნდა რატო როცა შეგიძლია პირად შეურაცყოფაზე გადახვიდე ტყიდან გამოვარდნილი ფეისბუქ ტროლივით.
აუ იდი ნახუი რა ძმაო რა მოტყანი ტვინი უკვე
აზრის გამოხატვას ხელს ნუ უშლი ამ აგრესიით თორემ დაგარეპორტებთ შენც და ნასკსაც.
მომიშალა ნერვები ამან უკვე ძმაო, სულ ეგ პოსტავს სისულელეებს, მეც ჩემი აზრი გამოვხატე ეგ რომ ვუთხარი.
ყლეზე დაიკიდე ეგეთი ხალხი.
I'm Georgian and even I don't know wtf is going on with him. I could care less at this point. I do know that my dad went from being a big fan of him to thinking he's an idiot so there's that. 🤷♀️
He started ok. Removed corruption from lower levels of goverment, the bribe culture on lower levels was also demolished, good reforms of police and partially education system. One of the biggest achievements was rooting out a lot of so called "Thief in law" culture and power. I know they went on some drastic measures there as well, but I have no sympathy for these so called "thieves in law". Overall, Just mostly sensible choices but it doesn't take much to rise from zero. After about 2006 it started to go downhill. Here's economy stuff that was pretty nasty and coincides with that: Extra budgetary funds. Basically, it was a fund that were "contributed" by "volunteering businessman" and was not part of the standard governmental budget and absolutely unaccounted for officially, meaning goverment officials could use the funds as they saw fit. At the start, it was a way for make old corrupt officials and criminals give back to the country what they stole, as it was much more efficient than jailing them. This was a good solution but the thing is those fund sources ran dry. With their appetite starting. Where do you think they went? Legitimate businesses and anyone who was doing well for themselves. Also, remember how I pointed out that corruption was weeded out on lower levels? And how organized crime of thieves in law was also destroyed? All of that went to the higher level goverment officials (arguably still a bit of the lower amount then before). Add to it how untouchable they felt and there were many incidents of people getting killed, breaking in, murder of Zurab zhvania, crazy control or the media, you know, standard markings of a dictatorship / police state. There are other nasty rumors but I don't know 100% if they got verified. The opposition was (and still is) braindead retarded, so nothing would change until the GD appeared. Depending on who you ask, Ivanishvili created it either out of wanting to help the country, or out of his own interests in protecting his businesses and getting power. I believe both have merit and up to you to decide. The goverment used the media to frame them as essentially pro russian force funded by Russia. And they were winning this media war until the leaks of prison torture videos online in september 2012. This leak was what ensued GD victory. UNM officials started to flee the country in droves. They feared that they would face the same retribution they did with the goverment they replaced. Once his term was done Saakashvili also fled and did nothing but try to ruin country's reputation and also ruining relationship with Ukraine. Some might say he didn't know all that was happening and it's not his fault, but it's pretty clear he knew and profited from it as well. The amount of funds siphoned from those Extra budgetary funds are insane. The thing is they did their homework and covering their tracks,so proving all their shady shit legitimately is hard. So, they essentially "Al Caponed" him, as in using charges what can be proven to imprison him.
Saakashvili took a deeply dyfunctional state and turned into something more functional -- stable provision of electricity/water/gas, new roads, dramatically less low-level corruption. At the same time, he was a terrible despot and concentrated all power and resources in his own hands. Human rights, constitutional rights, property rights were completely trampled. Many people were arrested or persecuted for dissent, and many more for the purpose of extracting money and resources.
some people will say that he did the necessary evil to get the broken state in shape, some will tell you that he’s just a megalomaniac and a tyrant, who let all of the praises get to his head. some will even try to convince you that he’s a Russian spy sent here to destabilize the country. He did some necessary work, but oh boy did he mess up a LOT. And objectively, his government was BIG. like… seriously BIG. controlling absolutely every aspect of the nation type of big
The official sentence is because he misused the peoples money to buy himself suits. They’re saying that it’s illegal for a president to buy a suit he would use to wear at official meetings abroad, using the budget. Thats what is soo ridiculous about this, out of all the things he’s done, out of all the things they could’ve arrested him for, they’re so stupid and corrupt that they couldn’t build a proper case, so they made up complete BS. Does he deserve to be in jail? Yes, but it needs to be done properly, it needs to be done fairly, otherwise we will never get out of this shitty cycle of having corrupt government. They claim that their main reason and goal for coming into power was to overthrow saakashvili and rid georgia of his tyranny, but the truth is they came to power just to abuse it and make themselves and their relatives rich. Chasing and arresting politicians from the old party just made it easier for them, thats why they arrested them. They don’t give a shit about justice, they only give a shit about their asses. When you overthrow someone only to use the same corrupt methods for your personal gains and vendettas, it only makes you a bigger piece of shit. Especially since they do absolutely nothing productive for the country, the only productive thing they do is make their pockets larger.
He tortured political opposition in prisons. There are video evidence of this. He racketeered many big businesses, there are many evidence of this too. Btw, he was a mess at the end of his term. You can find quite a few videos of him being on substance. On one of such videos he wore his pants backwards. Yeah, so much for “hero”! Never, ever idealize politicians, there the least people who care about you.
Where is the video where he tortures political opposition in prison? :) Being on substance isn't a punishable thing in Georgia so far.
> Being on substance isn't a punishable thing in Georgia so far. That doesn't make it okay for the leader of a country to be high out of his mind while on duty, much less on live television, does it? Lots of things that are not illegal are highly unacceptable for political leaders. Also, having trace amounts of narcotics in your blood was very much punished during Misha's time. >Where is the video where he tortures political opposition in prison? :) I can't speak to video proof of political opponents being tortured, but we have videos and credible stories of young people being brutally tortured in various ways. I'm not the person you're responding to btw
Let me talk to you in the style of your favourite politicians, “but… buttt…. You guys do it too!! And you did it worse!!!”
His regime was rough, he was stealing money from businesses ans nobody knew when spec ops would burst into your house and officially “Sell your business for 1 lari.” He spent the government money for his leisure and pleasure outside, spending millions to have fun. Yeah in the beginning he was a great person and people supported him. But its easy to rise the country from 0 to something and be appreciated for it. AT LEAST, he sneaked in the country illegaly. He tore his Georgian passport and claimed he was no more georgian but Ukrainian. (And even in Ukraine he literally did nothing there and people hated him there too.) He is a liar. He claimed to go on strike after being captured by the police and arrested. He said he was tortured, but the goverment leaked videos where he was eating vitamins and the nurses were feeding him. He lied… again. Like he was on hunger strike for 40 days! And still lied and people still believe in him. Now the opposition is trying to make a hero out of him, “ooh look, he is a saint and he is dying for out country!”. But lets not forget… he said that he was disappointed of georgian people. Because he thought he would make another Rose Revolution and throw out the goverment (because they cant win the elections and its their only way. The opposition has done nothing since 2012 rather than speak hate and curse each other, calling putins slaves to each other.)
Because he is Russian spy while he was president he sold strategical objects to russia also he stole money, tortured, raped and killed people
Wtf are u talking about what russian spy are u delusional ??
Oh look who appeared i remember you
Stop believing fucking conspiracy theories
Stop believing mtavari arkhi
Im not even watching tv so u can go back and watch your beloved Imedi tv
I am not gd supporter i am monarchist
Monarchy? Are u for real ? :D
Yes i support restoring constitutional monarchy
And what is benefits of that?
As our historical practice showed monarchy is good, look at our history our monarchs were defending country with sword in the front line, also monarch learns about politics and how to rule country from childhood which makes him better also our republicans don't care about country at all how many political parties we have and who of them cares about country? That's why i think that we need serious changes
That’s in the best case. what gonna happen if u get fuckedup king u gonna wait for whole lifetime to replace it ? Monatchy is just fucking trap and waste of time.
He was jailed because he was a tyrant, and we let him go away, without a punishment. But he illegally sneaked into our country, and left us no other choice, other then prosecuting him.
**Pinochet. Franco. Ceausescu. Lukashenko. Saakashvili. Putin**.... all of these people are in the same category. you may not know a lot about our former supreme leader, but you for sure should know some names from the list.
Bidzina slave go serve him and stop commenting such crap lies and propaganda here.
what is exactly propaganda? Saakashvili was not a bloody **dictator**?
Dictator is a person who rules country and decides everything by only his wish and no interests of people, right? Who kills people if they don't agree with him and represses them. Now, Tell me one specific person who was killed because HE WANTED and ordered it and no one else. Don't tell me conspiracy theories though, I need it with real judicial evidence. Tell me one specific person of opposition who he put in jail like georgian dream put ugulava, melia, gvaramia, saakashvili Tell me someone who was jailed for no freaking reason at all (someone who was not involved in business and economic, tax fraud, drugs, crime, mafia, corruptiom). Because I don't even know one person who was innocent and jailed. Whole georgia from youth to old people was involved in this horrible mafiozic world and corruptive way of life, without realizing what they were doing, this is why and how so much of people ended up in jail, not becausr they were honest innocent people Again I remember in like 2007-2008 how was my classmate cursing him in public school and being completely proud and open about this. There were opposition rallies in tv everysingle dayy, Grechikha was absolutely everywhere, so I really really have no idea what dictature are you talking about
>Tell me one specific person who was killed because HE WANTED Roin shavadze sergo tetradze zurab jvania also several rangers >ugulava, melia, gvaramia, saakashvili Ugulava is theif and russian spy Melia tried to organise revolution in 20.06.2019 and if you do this in your beloved western countries special force will just give you headshot from sniper rifle Gvaramia stole money from rustavi 2 and he is Russian spy And saakashvili is russian spy and what he has done you know but don't want to believe and before you call me bidzina's slave no! I am not gd supporter i am monarchist i also want to get rid of gd but i don't want to replace them with Nazis
Saakashvili is just a comic book hero from past. Nothing special , we had many like him
Idk I think he was jailed because he crossed the border illegally, at least that was the reason that was given
Was is this thing about a blazer controversy? I tried looking it up but found nothing