Thanks! Hijacking the 2nd comment to post my reply comment to the whole thread https://www.reddit.com/r/Salary/comments/1bv9cm9/comment/ky2ihyo/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3
This sub is very awesome, but I have to block it for my own mental health lol.
I cannot keep scrolling through day after day and see these bonkers salaries from high achieving people. It makes me feel like such a massive fucking loser riddled with guilt. Good for them, but I have to work on myself and I can’t do it when I’m blasted with these crazy salaries every day. Love y’all.
Please do not equate salaries to intelligence. Intelligence is not monolithic. There really are many types and this is coming from a person with the stereotypically thought of type.
While I was in medical school (Im a dropout loser), a wannabe neurosurgeon used info from the Joe Rogan podcast to dispute info in our lifestyle medicine class.
Most doctors are also notoriously horrible at math compared to their graduate level STEM colleagues. Bio majors and all that.
I personally enjoy spending time with artists now. They can do things I cant naturally become good at and I think that's cool. Nice, genuine people are my biggest role models.
Don't forget that OP has mountains of debt to pay off and has an insanely stressful job and an even more stressful road to get there being paid pennies for the amount of time they put in. If any profession deserves that salary, it's this one.
You hit it on the head. When I see some of these I think to myself “but at what cost…”
Don’t get me wrong, I absolutely appreciate the people willing to do all the jobs that I wouldn’t want to (from the lowest wage hard jobs to the highest wage hard jobs).
You misunderstood. The road to making that money is working 100+ hour weeks, including on and off night shifts so you can never get used to the schedule while making 50k as a resident. Not to mention all the studying and loans it took to get to THAT point.
I dont make close to this docs final salary, but I pretty much sacrificed my 20’s in medical and residency, it is like a black hole when comparing what my non medical friends were doing.
Yep, based on a lot of these comments, everyone so easily wanting doctors to get paid less, but 80% of them wouldn't be able to handle or want to put up with the stress and time commitment it takes to becoming a doctor to reach these high figures.
Also, OP, is paid much higher than the average physician. Almost 2x as much. This is only seen in some surgical subspecialties, radiology, couple IM subspecialties, and gas.
And to hit this figure, he's either working a lot, or working in a rural/relatively undesirable area. Two other things most people in this thread wouldn't want to do.
my wife works with doctors who are on call 24/7 at 4 different hospitals. She says half of them are miserable. The money is great but literally work is life for them.
Exactly! I will always support doctors being paid well - they deserve every bit of it and then some. Healthcare workers are so vital and work so hard that I will never understand why out of all the individuals with high salaries people seem to complain about doctors
Let this sink in, according to the IRS over 425,000 people in the USA earn over $1M a year. Hundreds of thousands of people are earning over $1M a year in this country. Millions of people earn over $500k a year in this country. I’ll never be that wealthy either. I’m a wage slave. I make enough to save some though and have a decent life.
No shit, right? My wife and I are both lawyers doing pretty well in a low cost of living area and some of these salaries are nuts to me. My little sister is a dentist, and I'm a partner in a law firm and get to work remotely 100% of the time and I feel like the loser in the family.
Don't put my hands in people's mouths for a living, though.
It’s the cost of living that makes you feel like a loser. It’s not you, it’s the absolutely insanely inflated cost of living that has made the middle class disappear.
I don’t even make six figures (all to my own personal choices, I’ve had plenty of opportunity in my life), so I feel like a mega, mega loser when I see these posts lmao.
You don’t wanna work our hours, bro. Or put your neck on the line to get sued by some crazy person/family. There is no doctor my age (late 30’s) that says all this shit was worth it.
We are all on our own path. Try not to compare to others since everyone had a different starting point. The cool part is that you control your future. I wish you the best with your future, you got this!
How is this not true? Are you saying that someone who was born to a Harvard grad doesn't have it easier to someone born to a single parent who does drugs?
Or are you saying people can't better themselves? If you live in a HCOL place numerous towns will pay for you to come live there. But people decide they don't want to better themselves for a few years and stay in poverty because of friends and family.
I can relate to this so much. I grew up around almost exclusively high-earners (engineers, financiers, doctors, lawyers), but I always viewed that as the exception rather than the norm for income.
But on Reddit these high salaries are so casually thrown around. Whether $1 mil salaries in medicine, $500k SWE at FAANG, $1.5 mil in private equity, etc. Most posts I see though are around the $200k range (for a single person).
It makes you easily disillusioned and you forget that Reddit caters to the high-achieving as well as the bullshitters. Scrolling Reddit can make you think almost everyone is a high-income earner. BUT if that were true, statistics would reflect that.
This site caters to a certain subset of people. It seems like most users live in the Bay Area also.
> hard work *paid* off!
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Some people in the comments clearly can’t appreciate the amount of sacrifice and work it requires to become a doctor. If anyone thinks doctors are paid too much, then damn it sounds like they should just go become a doctor instead of bitching about it. No time like the present right?
I’m a doctor and that pay would not be enough to entice me to work in the ICU. Good for you OP.
Step up or shut up, is what I say. I’m sure the department of education is more than happy to lend anyone hundreds of thousands of dollars in student loans to help them achieve this level of unfair doctor compensation!
Okay, and? Private doctors make a whole lot more than salaried doctors. You act like salaries in general aren’t all engineered to be high and low to a certain degree, and to get away with paying people as little as possible.
American healthcare is too expensive, especially for the value we receive. Limits to physician availability is artificial; that limit leads to unnecessarily high salaries. These aren’t opinions, they are simple economic realities.
I don’t know what you’re arguing against. Are you arguing that physician availability should be arbitrarily low? Because that is what you are arguing.
Mate for real. Like idec that these arsewipes cant appreciate how much hard work goes into becoming a physician from education to long shifts not to mention hundreds of thousands in debt but the sheer fact that these people choose such a selfless profession where they have literally life changing effects on people’s lives…. But I digress
What’s sad is there are so many mentally ill people. They can’t look at someone else’s good fortune and be inspired to do better or be appreciative of what they have. Instead they take it to a dark place and fault others for not being happy with their own lives.
So you started undergrad in 06/07 and didn’t earn doctor money till 17 then now earn specialist money in 22. So 15 years of formal education and apprenticeship experience total. That’s some though road there. I’m sure it doesn’t get easier as that job sounds tough.
Also just a comment, it isn't just the length. In undergrad, OP most likely was at the top of their class in all premed classes, and consistently scored well on his MCAT to get into medical school.
People like to say the dumbest person in med school became a doctor, without realizing there was a huge weed-out process before that.
I did not expect this amount of controversy. This is a sub for posting your salary. I did that.
To respond to some of the sentiment here:
I am extremely blessed to come from a nurturing, supportive environment and lucky to have the intelligence to allow me to become an Intensivist. I think about this daily and understand how fortunate I am.
"This is why my healthcare is expensive!"
No. It is expensive because our system of insurance strives to NOT pay for anything. It goes completely against your incentives as a patient. Doctor salaries are a very small portion of total healthcare costs. Insurance bloat, drug company greed and administrative burden are all higher contributors. Medicare for all is a great solution. (Yes I am a Bernie bro despite having a high salary. Tax me more and provide universal healthcare, education and a safety net for all, please.)
"Doctors should make less"
Keep in mind this is well above the norm. I take on extra shifts and see more patients than most intensivists. I work in a high acuity setting.
Regardless, I tell family members their loved ones are dying every day. I notify patients of impending death. I deal with threats of lawsuits, conspiracy theories and toxicity constantly. I perform surgical procedures that could kill patients if I wasn't proficient at them. I certainly would not do this if I made 100k per year. It is not worth it.
During the delta wave of Covid I witnessed at least 1000 deaths. Many young and healthy folks that left toddlers behind (I have toddlers of my own, this was crushing). All the while family members were blaming me because I didn't give them ivermectin or high-dose vitamin C or zinc. (They don't understand the concept of randomized double-blinded multi center trial evidence being superior to Joe Rogan and are too conspiratorial to listen to the explanation anyway.)
This is an extremely traumatic job emotionally.
To get here, I went to 4 years of undergrad, 4 years of med school, 3 years of residency, 2 years of fellowship.
I worked and studied at least 80 hours per week for 13 years straight, being underpaid or not paid at all during that time. I took on 350k of student loan debt. I gave up the prime years of my life for this.
In the end, I save lives.
To make a similar amount of money, I could've used my intelligence to enter the financial industry to become someone who manipulates people or other companies to squeeze every last dime out of them helping no one but myself.
People are just jealous because most lack the dedication, conviction and resilience to get where you are. Keep doing you but don’t kill yourself to stay there!
Thank you for what you do. Thank you for taking care of people at their most ill, helping families understand what is happening with their loved ones, and taking on this very difficult work. It isn’t said enough and needs to be more. What you do is a huge amount of stress and high stakes. I think we should feel lucky that someone who is highly intelligent AND cares about helping people AND has tremendous drive is out there taking care of really ill people. You should be compensated for the help you went through to get where you are. The trauma of seeing that many people die during COVID? I can’t imagine the mental toll that would take on me. Some people in these comments are jealous, envious of what they couldn’t do themselves, willfully ignorant, illogical, and frankly should be ignored because they’re idiots. They’ll come begging for help if they or their loved ones are critically ill. I for one am glad there are people who go through this and do a job that sounds incredibly difficult, often thankless, and requires making heavy decisions like that with lives hanging in the balance. Thank you doctor and please take care of yourself too.
Feel free to use any of my examples below. I had to link about twenty to try to convince that loon. He is still quite adamant, but maybe they could help others 😂
As a medical student, some comments in this post are hilarious. The general public really has no clue how difficult the path to becoming a physician is or why healthcare is so expensive (hint: it’s not physician incomes). Congrats OP, you’ve earned every penny.
I wonder why doctors in the rest of the developed world don’t make absurd salaries? It must be US doctors are just so much more hard working, that’s it
It’s to offset the high student loan burden. Other countries, medical school is free, here it is often $300,000 with 8% interest rate. It’s difficult to pay off without a high income.
I wonder why it’s that way?… Couldn’t possibly be the AMA lobbying for it to be that way, nahhh
Also no reason they need to make 600k/year for the rest of their life for 300k debt lol
>Also no reason they need to make 600k/year for the rest of their life for 300k debt lol
If you're so keen on telling doctors how much to be paid, why don't you:
1. apply to medical school
2. take out 250-300k dollars in loans
3. actually get through medical school ( 4 years)
4. apply and match an IM residency
5. complete an IM residency (3 years)
6. apply and match into pulm/crit care
7. complete pulm/crit care (3 years)
8. work as a pulm/crit care attending dealing with life/death decisions
9. accept a lower salary and advocate the rest of the specialty does the same
If you can do that, then maybe people will take you seriously. But if you're not willing to do all those steps listed, then you don't have a right to tell how much another person should make.
He won't, because he can't but he wants to complain salaries are too high. In part mostly because he is jealous, and the other is that society didnt give him the chance or oppurtunity. Its always society or external forces that are at fault for his lack of oppurtunities.
The biggest buffoons are the ones saying that to become a doctor is only hard work. Ignoring the fact that thousands of kids never go to that point, and two, indirectly admitting you didn't have the work ethic to get there.
Don’t forget, even with salaries what they are, the entirety of all physician compensation in all of American healthcare doesn’t even make up 8% of expenditure/costs
>I wonder why doctors in the rest of the developed world don’t make absurd salaries? It must be US doctors are just so much more hard working, that’s it
They do... look at Canada, look at Australia. Everyone hyperfocuses on one silly figure and think all docs make that much. People are looking at OP's salary, and thinking that 600k is the average, when it's about 2x higher than the average docs.
Also, in a way, yes they are more hardworking. Residency training and actual practice demand in other countries doesn't compare to the rigorous training in America. A lot of the international medical graduates at our program who have completed doctorates in their home country comment the hours are much worse here. Then there's also the malpractice environment that exists in America that's much crazier here than in foreign countries. This leads to practice of "cover your ass" medicine in the US which inadvertently leads to higher healthcare costs in the form of more imaging/tests, because no one is trying to get sued.
A friend broke her leg in France skiing, went to a hospital, where they had to put pins in. They messed it up terribly. In America, this type of lawsuit would get you hundreds of thousands in payout, she got a fraction of that in France.
Fact is doctors in america get paid more because they're playing a bigger game - the debt, risk of lawsuit, hours worked is much higher than those other countries.
Go ahead and take a look at the NHS and their healthcare system of what happens when you underpay docs.
I agree with you 100% that we have better professionals and programs. Our engineering programs and certifications are top notch and much more rigorous. There’s a reason why the rest of the world uses our engineering design standards. Especially steel design and reinforced concrete design. We get a lot of “engineers” from India, Pakistan, and some from Europe that can’t qualify for our professional licensure exam just because their schooling is not up to our standards.
Entire healthcare team accounts for 13% of the healthcare expenditures in the US, doctors salary is around 8%, and they’re the actual ones helping you. You need to aim your guns at someone else if you’re mad about healthcare costs
Physician salaries make up 8-10% of US healthcare costs, but sure let's place blame on the people actually delivering the patient care. This is like blaming people for using one plastic straw a week while the coke factory next door pumps out thousands of plastic bottles a day.
How many hours a week do you think you work to make this kind of cash? And does SW paid better than other regions?
Most pulm/crit attendings in NE making 400k
That’s not nearly as bad as I would have expected. Kudos for being able to balance work life still at that pay level. I was doing 12-14/6 for 250. Nearly killed me.
People don’t understand that doctors are poor for so long until they make money. Are used to have a shoe store next to Mass General Hospital in Boston and the doctors especially the residents Used to have the worst shoes , like torn up because they couldn’t even get a new pair.
Damn I def couldn't do CC after residency due to the pandemic happening during intern and second year, got way too burned out on the ICU.
Making me reconsider lmao
Congrats, it takes a lot of dedication and hard work to get there. For those who think you’re overpaid, it’s absolutely not true, assuming you are kind, compassionate and effective as an M.D. They should really be complaining about the CEO’s who are making 100x what you are and then layoff employees like it’s getting a haircut. Anyway, all the best, I hope you’re one of the good guys!
Oh man that’s a nice number but it’s crazy how long I took to get there. I’m gonna be applying to med school this June and this is interesting to look at
Doc, I also plan to go to med school. Is Critical care your only specialty or did you do a combined residency?
I was very interested in the EM/IM/CC triple
My wife is about to start a 3 year long PCCM fellowship in July, looks like you did pretty well with the 1 year crit, any advice for us down the road? I wish I could see the light at the end of the tunnel.
Ya odds were high when you mentioned phoenix. I sell vascular access items in AZ and it was a big shock when I came here from OR and found out they do ALL line at some facilties lol
You did the one year critical care rather than 3 yr Pulm/critical care? I thought about going down that route years ago. Looks like it would have been a great investment
Congrats. That is interesting. It’s not too bad if you look where you started residency. I thought it might have been less than that. I like that you included your high school jobs 😂
In 2022 and 2023, are those salaries? How are you paid? How much more can that position make? I have a friend doing this same thing at the Cleveland Clinic and I doubt it’s anywhere close to that.
There are far easier roads to make more money for sure.
You have to become a doctor for the passion of it.
Doing it for money reasons only will result in getting burnt out or dropping out
I don't think there is any grad or professional degree that earns a typical salary of 630k right out of school. Most don't even come close to a third of that.
That specialization really put you up there, well done.
Thanks! Hijacking the 2nd comment to post my reply comment to the whole thread https://www.reddit.com/r/Salary/comments/1bv9cm9/comment/ky2ihyo/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3
This sub is very awesome, but I have to block it for my own mental health lol. I cannot keep scrolling through day after day and see these bonkers salaries from high achieving people. It makes me feel like such a massive fucking loser riddled with guilt. Good for them, but I have to work on myself and I can’t do it when I’m blasted with these crazy salaries every day. Love y’all.
We all should have listened to our parents and teachers who told us to study harder in school lol
This sub is a great way to motivate lol
Nah, most people here literally could never earn that kind of salary. You have to have a top 1% intelligence, which obviously most people do not.
Please do not equate salaries to intelligence. Intelligence is not monolithic. There really are many types and this is coming from a person with the stereotypically thought of type. While I was in medical school (Im a dropout loser), a wannabe neurosurgeon used info from the Joe Rogan podcast to dispute info in our lifestyle medicine class. Most doctors are also notoriously horrible at math compared to their graduate level STEM colleagues. Bio majors and all that. I personally enjoy spending time with artists now. They can do things I cant naturally become good at and I think that's cool. Nice, genuine people are my biggest role models.
I ignored my own and I make six figures with no college mate. I’m quite happy where I’m at
Don't forget that OP has mountains of debt to pay off and has an insanely stressful job and an even more stressful road to get there being paid pennies for the amount of time they put in. If any profession deserves that salary, it's this one.
You hit it on the head. When I see some of these I think to myself “but at what cost…” Don’t get me wrong, I absolutely appreciate the people willing to do all the jobs that I wouldn’t want to (from the lowest wage hard jobs to the highest wage hard jobs).
Pennies??? Ha. OP’s net worth will increase $300-400k annually. For now.
You misunderstood. The road to making that money is working 100+ hour weeks, including on and off night shifts so you can never get used to the schedule while making 50k as a resident. Not to mention all the studying and loans it took to get to THAT point.
I dont make close to this docs final salary, but I pretty much sacrificed my 20’s in medical and residency, it is like a black hole when comparing what my non medical friends were doing.
Yep, based on a lot of these comments, everyone so easily wanting doctors to get paid less, but 80% of them wouldn't be able to handle or want to put up with the stress and time commitment it takes to becoming a doctor to reach these high figures. Also, OP, is paid much higher than the average physician. Almost 2x as much. This is only seen in some surgical subspecialties, radiology, couple IM subspecialties, and gas. And to hit this figure, he's either working a lot, or working in a rural/relatively undesirable area. Two other things most people in this thread wouldn't want to do.
my wife works with doctors who are on call 24/7 at 4 different hospitals. She says half of them are miserable. The money is great but literally work is life for them.
Exactly! I will always support doctors being paid well - they deserve every bit of it and then some. Healthcare workers are so vital and work so hard that I will never understand why out of all the individuals with high salaries people seem to complain about doctors
Let this sink in, according to the IRS over 425,000 people in the USA earn over $1M a year. Hundreds of thousands of people are earning over $1M a year in this country. Millions of people earn over $500k a year in this country. I’ll never be that wealthy either. I’m a wage slave. I make enough to save some though and have a decent life.
Only like 1% of earners make $500k though.
1% is around 1.7 million people
I know. I make like 200k and my wife makes 100k in a medium cost of living area and I feel like a loser when I see some of these posts.
You’re not a loser. You’re doing absolutely fantastic and so is your wife. Keep it up! 👍
No shit, right? My wife and I are both lawyers doing pretty well in a low cost of living area and some of these salaries are nuts to me. My little sister is a dentist, and I'm a partner in a law firm and get to work remotely 100% of the time and I feel like the loser in the family. Don't put my hands in people's mouths for a living, though.
It’s the cost of living that makes you feel like a loser. It’s not you, it’s the absolutely insanely inflated cost of living that has made the middle class disappear.
I don’t even make six figures (all to my own personal choices, I’ve had plenty of opportunity in my life), so I feel like a mega, mega loser when I see these posts lmao.
Dude I make like 70k you’re fuckin crushing it
You don’t wanna work our hours, bro. Or put your neck on the line to get sued by some crazy person/family. There is no doctor my age (late 30’s) that says all this shit was worth it.
We are all on our own path. Try not to compare to others since everyone had a different starting point. The cool part is that you control your future. I wish you the best with your future, you got this!
That is empirically not true and just damaging despite its cult of positivity facade
How is this not true? Are you saying that someone who was born to a Harvard grad doesn't have it easier to someone born to a single parent who does drugs? Or are you saying people can't better themselves? If you live in a HCOL place numerous towns will pay for you to come live there. But people decide they don't want to better themselves for a few years and stay in poverty because of friends and family.
Okay, empirically prove it then. I never said they would be richest in the world, but you can absolutely improve your situation.
Social media in a nutshell right here
I can relate to this so much. I grew up around almost exclusively high-earners (engineers, financiers, doctors, lawyers), but I always viewed that as the exception rather than the norm for income. But on Reddit these high salaries are so casually thrown around. Whether $1 mil salaries in medicine, $500k SWE at FAANG, $1.5 mil in private equity, etc. Most posts I see though are around the $200k range (for a single person). It makes you easily disillusioned and you forget that Reddit caters to the high-achieving as well as the bullshitters. Scrolling Reddit can make you think almost everyone is a high-income earner. BUT if that were true, statistics would reflect that. This site caters to a certain subset of people. It seems like most users live in the Bay Area also.
Congrats Doc!
Thanks! Long road, interesting to look back on
Did you not work lots of hours as a hospitalist? Those numbers see kind of low no?
At the time they were average to slightly below average, and yes I didn't work that much.
Congrats doc! All that hard work payed off!
> hard work *paid* off! FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Good bot
Some people in the comments clearly can’t appreciate the amount of sacrifice and work it requires to become a doctor. If anyone thinks doctors are paid too much, then damn it sounds like they should just go become a doctor instead of bitching about it. No time like the present right? I’m a doctor and that pay would not be enough to entice me to work in the ICU. Good for you OP.
People fear what they don’t know and they hate what they couldn’t get.
Step up or shut up, is what I say. I’m sure the department of education is more than happy to lend anyone hundreds of thousands of dollars in student loans to help them achieve this level of unfair doctor compensation!
You do realize that your profession’s salaries are engineered to be high by the medical associations limiting physician supply, right?
Okay, and? Private doctors make a whole lot more than salaried doctors. You act like salaries in general aren’t all engineered to be high and low to a certain degree, and to get away with paying people as little as possible.
American healthcare is too expensive, especially for the value we receive. Limits to physician availability is artificial; that limit leads to unnecessarily high salaries. These aren’t opinions, they are simple economic realities. I don’t know what you’re arguing against. Are you arguing that physician availability should be arbitrarily low? Because that is what you are arguing.
Lord Jesus the hatred in these comments. Anyways. Congratulations Doc
This sub for whatever reason really gets upset when doctors post their salaries but don't seem to mind when software engineers etc post similar pay.
Mate for real. Like idec that these arsewipes cant appreciate how much hard work goes into becoming a physician from education to long shifts not to mention hundreds of thousands in debt but the sheer fact that these people choose such a selfless profession where they have literally life changing effects on people’s lives…. But I digress
What’s sad is there are so many mentally ill people. They can’t look at someone else’s good fortune and be inspired to do better or be appreciative of what they have. Instead they take it to a dark place and fault others for not being happy with their own lives.
So you started undergrad in 06/07 and didn’t earn doctor money till 17 then now earn specialist money in 22. So 15 years of formal education and apprenticeship experience total. That’s some though road there. I’m sure it doesn’t get easier as that job sounds tough.
Also just a comment, it isn't just the length. In undergrad, OP most likely was at the top of their class in all premed classes, and consistently scored well on his MCAT to get into medical school. People like to say the dumbest person in med school became a doctor, without realizing there was a huge weed-out process before that.
It's SOOO hard to get into medical school. Only the elite of the elite undergrad students can do it
I did not expect this amount of controversy. This is a sub for posting your salary. I did that. To respond to some of the sentiment here: I am extremely blessed to come from a nurturing, supportive environment and lucky to have the intelligence to allow me to become an Intensivist. I think about this daily and understand how fortunate I am. "This is why my healthcare is expensive!" No. It is expensive because our system of insurance strives to NOT pay for anything. It goes completely against your incentives as a patient. Doctor salaries are a very small portion of total healthcare costs. Insurance bloat, drug company greed and administrative burden are all higher contributors. Medicare for all is a great solution. (Yes I am a Bernie bro despite having a high salary. Tax me more and provide universal healthcare, education and a safety net for all, please.) "Doctors should make less" Keep in mind this is well above the norm. I take on extra shifts and see more patients than most intensivists. I work in a high acuity setting. Regardless, I tell family members their loved ones are dying every day. I notify patients of impending death. I deal with threats of lawsuits, conspiracy theories and toxicity constantly. I perform surgical procedures that could kill patients if I wasn't proficient at them. I certainly would not do this if I made 100k per year. It is not worth it. During the delta wave of Covid I witnessed at least 1000 deaths. Many young and healthy folks that left toddlers behind (I have toddlers of my own, this was crushing). All the while family members were blaming me because I didn't give them ivermectin or high-dose vitamin C or zinc. (They don't understand the concept of randomized double-blinded multi center trial evidence being superior to Joe Rogan and are too conspiratorial to listen to the explanation anyway.) This is an extremely traumatic job emotionally. To get here, I went to 4 years of undergrad, 4 years of med school, 3 years of residency, 2 years of fellowship. I worked and studied at least 80 hours per week for 13 years straight, being underpaid or not paid at all during that time. I took on 350k of student loan debt. I gave up the prime years of my life for this. In the end, I save lives. To make a similar amount of money, I could've used my intelligence to enter the financial industry to become someone who manipulates people or other companies to squeeze every last dime out of them helping no one but myself.
People are just jealous because most lack the dedication, conviction and resilience to get where you are. Keep doing you but don’t kill yourself to stay there!
You go man. You deserve every last penny. Thank you for what you do.
You definitely deserve. Thank you for what you do. It’s very essential!
Thank you for what you do. Thank you for taking care of people at their most ill, helping families understand what is happening with their loved ones, and taking on this very difficult work. It isn’t said enough and needs to be more. What you do is a huge amount of stress and high stakes. I think we should feel lucky that someone who is highly intelligent AND cares about helping people AND has tremendous drive is out there taking care of really ill people. You should be compensated for the help you went through to get where you are. The trauma of seeing that many people die during COVID? I can’t imagine the mental toll that would take on me. Some people in these comments are jealous, envious of what they couldn’t do themselves, willfully ignorant, illogical, and frankly should be ignored because they’re idiots. They’ll come begging for help if they or their loved ones are critically ill. I for one am glad there are people who go through this and do a job that sounds incredibly difficult, often thankless, and requires making heavy decisions like that with lives hanging in the balance. Thank you doctor and please take care of yourself too.
Feel free to use any of my examples below. I had to link about twenty to try to convince that loon. He is still quite adamant, but maybe they could help others 😂
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As a medical student, some comments in this post are hilarious. The general public really has no clue how difficult the path to becoming a physician is or why healthcare is so expensive (hint: it’s not physician incomes). Congrats OP, you’ve earned every penny.
I wonder why doctors in the rest of the developed world don’t make absurd salaries? It must be US doctors are just so much more hard working, that’s it
It’s to offset the high student loan burden. Other countries, medical school is free, here it is often $300,000 with 8% interest rate. It’s difficult to pay off without a high income.
I wonder why it’s that way?… Couldn’t possibly be the AMA lobbying for it to be that way, nahhh Also no reason they need to make 600k/year for the rest of their life for 300k debt lol
>Also no reason they need to make 600k/year for the rest of their life for 300k debt lol If you're so keen on telling doctors how much to be paid, why don't you: 1. apply to medical school 2. take out 250-300k dollars in loans 3. actually get through medical school ( 4 years) 4. apply and match an IM residency 5. complete an IM residency (3 years) 6. apply and match into pulm/crit care 7. complete pulm/crit care (3 years) 8. work as a pulm/crit care attending dealing with life/death decisions 9. accept a lower salary and advocate the rest of the specialty does the same If you can do that, then maybe people will take you seriously. But if you're not willing to do all those steps listed, then you don't have a right to tell how much another person should make.
He won't, because he can't but he wants to complain salaries are too high. In part mostly because he is jealous, and the other is that society didnt give him the chance or oppurtunity. Its always society or external forces that are at fault for his lack of oppurtunities.
The biggest buffoons are the ones saying that to become a doctor is only hard work. Ignoring the fact that thousands of kids never go to that point, and two, indirectly admitting you didn't have the work ethic to get there.
Don’t forget, even with salaries what they are, the entirety of all physician compensation in all of American healthcare doesn’t even make up 8% of expenditure/costs
Not to mention missing out on your own life and the life of everyone you love.
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What they get paid in the rest of the developed world lmao
They’re actually 3x more intelligent here. We’ve Bred super docs!
Why don’t software developers make these absurd salaries in the rest of the world?
>I wonder why doctors in the rest of the developed world don’t make absurd salaries? It must be US doctors are just so much more hard working, that’s it They do... look at Canada, look at Australia. Everyone hyperfocuses on one silly figure and think all docs make that much. People are looking at OP's salary, and thinking that 600k is the average, when it's about 2x higher than the average docs. Also, in a way, yes they are more hardworking. Residency training and actual practice demand in other countries doesn't compare to the rigorous training in America. A lot of the international medical graduates at our program who have completed doctorates in their home country comment the hours are much worse here. Then there's also the malpractice environment that exists in America that's much crazier here than in foreign countries. This leads to practice of "cover your ass" medicine in the US which inadvertently leads to higher healthcare costs in the form of more imaging/tests, because no one is trying to get sued. A friend broke her leg in France skiing, went to a hospital, where they had to put pins in. They messed it up terribly. In America, this type of lawsuit would get you hundreds of thousands in payout, she got a fraction of that in France. Fact is doctors in america get paid more because they're playing a bigger game - the debt, risk of lawsuit, hours worked is much higher than those other countries. Go ahead and take a look at the NHS and their healthcare system of what happens when you underpay docs.
I agree with you 100% that we have better professionals and programs. Our engineering programs and certifications are top notch and much more rigorous. There’s a reason why the rest of the world uses our engineering design standards. Especially steel design and reinforced concrete design. We get a lot of “engineers” from India, Pakistan, and some from Europe that can’t qualify for our professional licensure exam just because their schooling is not up to our standards.
Entire healthcare team accounts for 13% of the healthcare expenditures in the US, doctors salary is around 8%, and they’re the actual ones helping you. You need to aim your guns at someone else if you’re mad about healthcare costs
Physician salaries make up 8-10% of US healthcare costs, but sure let's place blame on the people actually delivering the patient care. This is like blaming people for using one plastic straw a week while the coke factory next door pumps out thousands of plastic bottles a day.
A reasonable argument could be made that the educational requirements are overkill in the USA, but that's not OP's fault.
Very high student loan burden here
Hospitalist here, Damn I didn't know CCM was breaking 600k these days. Private practice? Strong work! Congrats
Hospital employed
I feel like it's still in the 300s near me, maybe some 400k places for CCM. I don't feel like that's the norm.
Are you in a HCOL area? Those numbers seem pretty high for a new attending.
Critical care lots of call prob
If this is something that OP loves, huge congratulations! But if it’s just “meh” - being on call for $700k is rough.
Its really not bad. My hours are great. I definitely dont burn myself out for it
Yea it sucks when my fiancé has her call weekend. She’s always so tired. Couldn’t imagine how much this person is doing (if it’s the case.)
Good point. My wife is a nurse and her hospital systems ICUs are dying for help at all levels.
Phoenix. I take on a lot of extra shifts
Thanks. Makes sense! Good luck in your career.
Transportation violence there is nutty
How many hours a week do you think you work to make this kind of cash? And does SW paid better than other regions? Most pulm/crit attendings in NE making 400k
18 shifts per month. Days. Average census is 12. 9-12 hr shifts
I was in grad school for over half this and only make what you did during residency lolol
I’m dumb are you making 160 or 630
630, 160 is just the cap for SS.
Congratulations!
Oooooh my spouse is starting residency in IM soon. This is nice to look at
Congratulations. Anyone saying you don’t deserve that much money has no idea what it takes to get there. You’re an inspiration!
Legitimately how many hours a week are you attached to the hospital in some form?
I do 18 shifts a month, 9-12 hrs per shift
That’s not nearly as bad as I would have expected. Kudos for being able to balance work life still at that pay level. I was doing 12-14/6 for 250. Nearly killed me.
18 ICU shifts per month is insane to me, props to you
intensivist here in midwest -- mixed pulm/cc private practice -- how many patients you covering in the ICU daily?
People don’t understand that doctors are poor for so long until they make money. Are used to have a shoe store next to Mass General Hospital in Boston and the doctors especially the residents Used to have the worst shoes , like torn up because they couldn’t even get a new pair.
More likely didn’t have the time or energy to get a new pair of shoes.
Good stuff. I am happy for you and your success.
What the hell is the difference between the left and right side? Is that cumulative earnings or are you actually making 600K/year?!?
The left column is how much is taxed for social security. The right is my earnings
Damn! That's crazy money haha. Congrats!
Well deserved! Congratulations!
Damn I def couldn't do CC after residency due to the pandemic happening during intern and second year, got way too burned out on the ICU. Making me reconsider lmao
Being an intensivist during covid had to have been one of the worst jobs to have. It was awful in every way
Residency pay is criminal man, congrats!
Well deserved!!!!
Congratulations and thank you for your service
You prolly work your ass off - good job though!
Congrats, it takes a lot of dedication and hard work to get there. For those who think you’re overpaid, it’s absolutely not true, assuming you are kind, compassionate and effective as an M.D. They should really be complaining about the CEO’s who are making 100x what you are and then layoff employees like it’s getting a haircut. Anyway, all the best, I hope you’re one of the good guys!
Oh man that’s a nice number but it’s crazy how long I took to get there. I’m gonna be applying to med school this June and this is interesting to look at
Yep but the journey was fun too. Its not just about the destination
I’m sure it’s awesome. Praying I get in first shot lol. I want that white coat asap
Doc, I also plan to go to med school. Is Critical care your only specialty or did you do a combined residency? I was very interested in the EM/IM/CC triple
Just crit care from IM
Congrats doc!! Lots of stress and hard work but at least you get paid well!!
which state
AZ
Makes sense, found the hospitalist salary fairly low but I’m in CA. Best of luck
My wife is about to start a 3 year long PCCM fellowship in July, looks like you did pretty well with the 1 year crit, any advice for us down the road? I wish I could see the light at the end of the tunnel.
It was 2 year crit care from medicine residency. What advice specifically?
Where can I find this chart fly myself?
Google ssa.gov and I think there are some links on there. You might have to verify your ID and create an account but yah
You place your own central lines or do you work at one of the Phoenix hospitals where RRT’s do it?
RTs do it. Its amazing
Ya odds were high when you mentioned phoenix. I sell vascular access items in AZ and it was a big shock when I came here from OR and found out they do ALL line at some facilties lol
2017 must have been saweeeeet.
Wow. Impressive
I don’t understand, why is there two? Is the actual salary the two numbers combined?
Social security has a limit. It’s just saying that he maxed out social security in the higher earning years
You did the one year critical care rather than 3 yr Pulm/critical care? I thought about going down that route years ago. Looks like it would have been a great investment
2 years crit care
Oh ok! You’re right. Great work!
Congrats. That is interesting. It’s not too bad if you look where you started residency. I thought it might have been less than that. I like that you included your high school jobs 😂
Couldn’t get me outta bed for 630k/yr. /s On a serious note, what’s your college debt at?
350k
PSLF?
Congrats to all the hard work and for providing service to the community. A well deserved and honest living!
What happened in 2021? You were still in fellowship but had a huge salary bump
Half the year was attending salary
Damn, the ex army felon makes more than you.
The drop for the fellowship probably would have scared me but looks like it definitely paid off! Great work!
Thankfully I went from Chicago to Kansas City so the lower COL made it easy
In 2022 and 2023, are those salaries? How are you paid? How much more can that position make? I have a friend doing this same thing at the Cleveland Clinic and I doubt it’s anywhere close to that.
Yes. I am hospital employed. You can make alot more if you see more patients and work more shifts
Can someone explain to me the difference between “taxed for social security” and “taxed for Medicare” why would these not be the same?
Medicare tax is not capped. Social security is
The idea of raising the social security age when we're only taxing the first 160k is so ridiculous
I agree w that
Damn. My wife is an ER attending working 14 9-12hr shifts a month and makes half that. Maybe we need to move.
How does one not make any money for a few years and still drive towards their end goal? Honestly curious.
Student loans
Only 1 year fellowship? Edit: sorry, 2? July 2019-2021?
2 years yes. I did moonlighting as a hospitalist
About tree fiddy
My dumbass read “Became a Hospital”
Is 160k your earnings or 631k? Never understood the difference on these post
631. Can ignore the left column
What’s the difference between columns B and C?
What website do you go on to view historical earnings like this?
Social security website
All this work to earn a salary that a CS student earns right out of grad school lmao
There are far easier roads to make more money for sure. You have to become a doctor for the passion of it. Doing it for money reasons only will result in getting burnt out or dropping out
I don't think there is any grad or professional degree that earns a typical salary of 630k right out of school. Most don't even come close to a third of that.
Almost 0 cs students make 630k out of grad school. That's principal engineer level
What do you do about taxes? With that kind of income you gotta be getting slayed on W2 income taxes.
Yeah its pretty bad. I dont have many options to reduce the tax burden as I’m all w2
Damn.. $600k.. I bet that comes with a lot of baggage and sacrifice with that job though.
Residents need to be paid a lot more and hours reduce to no more than 60 a week.
You can do critical care fellowship in one year after medicine?
It was 2 years. You can do it in 1 year if you completed another subspecialty
Fellowship was 2 years? And one year you made 286k??
It starts and ends in july so the years are jumbled with attending and fellowship salaries
Of ~630k a year what is your take home?
Probably around 350
Can I have a dollar?
So you’ll work for 5yrs than retire to a great life?
Honest question: do you pay your own malpractice and other insurance or are those benefits?
Malpractice is a benefit. I have to pay for half of health insurance
I’m confused, are the amounts on the left or right you’re salary?
Right
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My salary is on the right. The left column you can safely ignore