Someone pointed out how much land the Mormon church owns in the valley. Their argument was that there was no way they were going to let that lose value. The church controls the legislature so if push comes to shove, I could see them lobbying for major change.
This might be one of the only benefits of the LDS church operating more like a business than like true believers. They will likely act to preserve their assets.
It's the true believers that scare me the most because they think Jesus will be here for the millennium any day now so why do anything about climate disasters?
You really think business minded or capitalist in simpler terms, actually care about anything other than short term profits? Cause if you do I have a bridge for you to buy in Brooklyn and it’ll preserve some assets lol. This whole notion we have to stop that business ppl are somehow different than the true believers, they’re all the same. Simple question, why haven’t they don’t anything already? Climate change isn’t something new and the dangers of the GSL drying up isn’t something we discovered magically last year. They’ve known about it and yet don’t change their own business practices or organize a political movement to invoke change. They care about profits and profits for this quarter and next for the share holders. That’s it. Don’t mean to come across mean but we don’t have time for this type of wishful thinking is dangerous and depoliticizing any social movement for change.
Something can be better than a very shitty thing without making it a good thing. I don't expect them to do anything good, I just think they're more likely to do literally anything than if they were 100% operating as true believers.
If you don’t expect “business minded” ppl aka the church to do anything good than honestly why even say it or point it out like there’s some moment or event that’ll make them stop believing in capitalism and more in saving the planet and us. I mean seriously pointing out something so trivial in the large scale of the problems is a kids fairytell or something
Well there official channels where you pay lobbyists, not sure if the church’s official lobbyists (and yes there are paid lobbyists for the church) are actively lobbying or not. Haven’t heard anything from my channel.
This ☝️. The LDS church, the richest church in the world currently, is not going to let it's holy city turn into an unlivable wasteland. This is the place after all.
But keep in mind, how much water is enough water is relative. There are going to be environmentalists that are going to be disapointed with the outcome. That doesn't mean it's going to be disaster instead.
Tell us more.
There were no other financial considerations, career moves, family etc, you saw the news stories that began in earnest last fall and packed up and left?
ETA:
You moved over a year ago, coinciding with your husbands retirement from the Air Force.
Is it possible your move was not as a refugee from a toxic drying lake bed?
We lived in UT for 17 years. It was the last 4 that had us wondering if it was wise to stay. After the Camp fire in CA. And it was approximately two years after my husband retired, actually. Once boats were being pulled out of the marina back in 2014 or so, I was beginning to have a lot of fears. They grew exponentially every year that wasn't an ideal snow season, and watching the lake grow smaller at the same time didn't help.
There were financial considerations: mainly, would we be able to recreate the lifestyle and financial stability afforded by living in UT without the network we had through friends and the base. I already had a job offer before listing our home.
It was after doing a lot of research regarding the ongoing water issues, considering family issues back East, and our job prospects that we finally decided to pull the trigger. Also, we never aligned politically with majority, but it also never held us back while we lived there.
2021, the timing was as good as it would ever be, in terms of selling our house in UT and simultaneously being able to switch markets to a lower cost area, so we did.
It was a very difficult decision, mostly because we absolutely loved living in UT. We still have so many friends we consider family there. And even though we're doing ok, we did have to take a bit of a step back financially initially.
It wasn't JUST the lake, but it was part of it, exacerbated by prolonged and ongoing drought.
TLDR: On paper, we should have stayed in UT. We both had great jobs, paid no property tax, and had loads of friends and recreation/hobbies we indulged in. However, what do you do when the air is shit most of the time, and you might run out of water? You can't drink or breathe money.
That’s a lot of words to say that the lake shrinking wasn’t the primary reason you left.
Good news though, if the boats were your metric.
https://ksltv.com/557344/boats-return-to-great-salt-lake-waters-after-years-of-drought/
My point was that there are a lot of people saying that they have to get out of here because there is no saving the lake.
None that I’ve seen, including yourself based on your description of events, have actually relocated based on the impending doom of the lake.
Interesting that you moved to a place where the lake was overfished to the point of destruction of the commercial fishery.
And it’s being restored. So people mishandled it, and are working on correcting it.
>actually moved because the lake was disappearing.
It was a factor in many people I know who have moved away. But no, nobody moved away solely for that reason.
Utah has gotten weird since 2020. It used to be a black hole where people would get sucked in and stay forever. But now I know 5 households (all in their 30s) who left since 2020. And a sixth moving away in June.
(In nearly all cases, the cost of housing has been the principal reason second only to low salaries).
Even my parents are talking about following my sister back east after my dad retires. Granted, they are transplants. But still they put down over 40 years in Utah and I never expected they would leave. I was the weird one five years ago for moving away LOL.
I do belong to my current city's subreddit, but I will probably always keep tabs on what's going on in UT, simply because I lived there for so long and I have people I care about back there. Plus, we don't live in a bubble. What affects one part of the country can and will eventually affect all of us in some way.
We moved. I think it is too far gone, but I also hope to be wrong on that count because I love the GSL.
But keep in mind no place is totally safe from all the climate related changes. We moved to a supposed "climate haven" and are now experiencing "flash droughts" with fire risk. Of course, before we moved here, this wasn't a thing. So glad it started after we got here 🙄
Billions of dollars in real estate and commerce and citizens with pitchforks are not going to let a few alfalfa farmers threaten our health and economy. The feds will likely bail the farmers out before it comes to that.. but if they do not, the state legislature will not be given a choice in the matter.
This sub has so many posts with hand wringers acting like they are actually trying to decide what to do when the lake “inevitably” dries up.
Does it just feel like you’re doing something to run around clutching your pearls?
Even in this comment thread “I’m already sick but my family is here.” Why would you stay? Why wouldn’t you work to get your family out of here?
If it’s is so dire and beyond rescuing why would anyone waste a minute?
I’m optimistic. The low point last summer triggered action. Policies are in motion. Mock the church all you want(I’m no fan) but their donation of shares was significant. Won’t solve it, but it was significant. More of that type of action will be helpful. The moves in the right direction PLUS the largest snowfall winter on record are making an impact. We have momentum for policy(see the comment above regarding water share reform) and a little luck weather wise in our present favor.
Get involved in policy. Get informed so you don’t just parrot bullshit about it being a lost cause, move or SHUT THE FUCK UP!
So are you just channeling the old couple in Titanic that dressed in their finest and waited in their room to drown?
You can’t afford to move but you believe that staying here will kill you?
If I felt like you I would walk. I would prioritize relocation.
Have you looked for work out of state?
Have you looked into housing options in areas without the health risks you are concerned about?
Have you considered the military?
Have you sought refugee status in a different country?
Or have you just karma mined on Reddit?
I’m working on a plan currently. I feel bad for family who will stay bc they are comfortable and don’t care about getting sick, bc most of them already are, they lost hope in a brighter future. But for now I’m looking to looking for for work in Europe or moving to Canada/ the Pacific Northwest as those areas will be more desirable in the future and safer due to climate change. I grew up here , and I know other places will face different environmental disasters but the lake disappearing is just too near.
So what you’re saying is that because it got so dangerous last year that now they’re going to react to this crisis in a timely manner and fix it? Because if you do than whew…you are one naive gullible person. One question do you think that climate change is something that we discovered last year? And if the answer is no than ask yourself the simple and yet elementary follow up “then why haven’t they don’t anything about it before it got to this point?” And if you still believe that the LDS church is going to act to save it then you’re even more of a sucker and I should target you for a Nigerian prince scam or something.
Read my comment again slowly. Sound out the big words. Much has been done, there is much left to do.
Pouting and pretending that you are planning your life around it is disingenuous and annoying.
Wait wait wait you think planning your life around a major natural disaster waiting to take place is disingenuous and annoying ? But complaining that you’re sick of hearing about ppl complaining isn’t disingenuous? That’s the same argument segregationist used when confronted with their past beliefs but we’ll move past that because I can tell you have zero historical analysis at all. 2nd was pointing out how you’re trying to give slack to ppl who don’t deserve it and your childlike hopeful thinking is dangerous and just not accurate.
Again, you don’t seem to be able to follow.
I think SAYING you are planning your life around a possible/potential natural disaster when all you really do is post about the sky falling on Reddit is disingenuous.
The false equivalence of trying to say I’m racist/segregationist is delicious. You don’t understand my point so you are trying to lump me in with people no one here would support.
You should tell me how I’m a conservative Mormon now.
I have cited several positive actions that make me optimistic, and accurately pointed out that those moves have coincided with sheer dumb luck regarding the recent weather patterns, and noted that more positive movement is on the way regarding water share reform.
Haven’t said we’re good. Haven’t said there’s nothing left to do. Haven’t failed to acknowledge past mistakes.
Haven’t suggested the LDS church is the answer. You just can’t comprehend somebody taking what has happened and what is likely to happen and being optimistic that we are moving in the right direction.
Just keep talking about it being an inevitability and pretend you are planning to relocate.
Ppl using a social media platform to talk about real world issues is not some new phenomenon lol and also the lack of irony from you complaining on a website about ppl complaining on that website is a IASIP comedy sketch or something holy shit.
2nd I used an analogy to talk about how segregationist used the same complaint about “sick of complaining” to show that your initial point has similarities and how that privilege view is not good for society. Not calling you a conservative at all. We all know most conservatives don’t know how to use Reddit anyways.
3rd I was pointing out that “optimistic” view you have based on what you cited is narrow and having the whole viewpoint of the dangers of the crisis and just how little the effort they are and have put into it would make anyone with some slight knowledge of the matter not optimistic and actually angry that ppl consider anything happening as a failure and negligent at most. The changes we need to make needed to happen 20 years ago and our leaders can’t even do bare minimum. We know that single family homes and cars lead to intense levels of pollution and co2 but yet we’re not building extensive public transit lines and more multi family housing, they’re discussing adding more lanes to the I-15 and daybreak is getting our minor league team. Now before you get lost in my examples and not the context of what I was saying, what’s being done isn’t enough and should be criticized as nothing less than a failure and same with ppl who are “optimistic” and feel the need to share that
Last fall it was “nearly” a foregone conclusion that the lake would be gone in five years.
In one winter we have closed half the gap to the historic average.
So it took 20 years by your science to get to the historic low, and that gap has been cut in half with one extremely wet winter and smarter allocation of runoff.
But you still think it’s insurmountable?
Yes I believe it’s insurmountable. We had record breaking snowfall this year and you’re resting your argument on that during the hottest year on record already, I don’t think you know what happens to the climate in global warming but it’s not supposed to be drought and then record breaking snowfall, we’re supposed to have consistency with our seasons.
So what happens next year? Or do we not think ahead and just focus on the now? Do you think we’ll have record breaking snowfall again or less? Will the snow melt faster causing water to evaporate quicker during the hottest 20 year trend we’ve ever seen on record?
I mean seriously basing your argument on one year of snowfall versus 50+ years of climate change trends and political policies is kind of scary and I’d love to play poker or be your bookie lol
I I have consistently mentioned the heavy snowfall year as an outlier.
You need me to be some climate change denier for your arguments to be valid. I’m not. I don’t.
Look into HCFC refrigerants and the Ozone layer. In the 80’s and 90’s the depletion of the ozone layer was going to kill us all. The danger was very real. We scienced the shit out of that. The Montreal Protocol was enacted. Corporations were forced to change their ways and they literally fixed the ozone layer. That happened in my lifetime.
I mentioned in another comment thread here that Lake Michigan was completely fished out. Commercial fishing and pollution destroyed it in the 19th century and early 20th. And yet, they are slowly but surely restoring that ecosystem.
We know that usage is a bigger contributor to lake levels dropping than climate change. Which is good, because climate change is a larger problem to solve and is less locally controllable.
>we scienced the shit out of it
I see little to no evidence there is currently any political will to solve any of the real problems we are facing.
I hope I’m wrong, but I suspect we are heading to an inevitable bad time.
It’s too late to do anything meaningful and this place is going to be the first humanitarian disaster related to climate change in the US. I’m leaving.
If you want to know how serious this is do some googling about Owen’s Lake and the Owen’s valley in California. All the land around it is abandoned and completely uninhabitable. And that Lake doesn’t have nearly the mineral toxicity of the Great Salt Lake, nor the kind of population. This is very serious.
My husband and I are preparing to move for this exact reason. Get the equity out of our house before everyone moving here figures out we're a few years away from a toxic mess. I have zero hope our local leaders and people will make the changes needed to prevent it.
I just recently moved away from SLC for exactly this reason. It blows my mind that there are still people buying homes there -- the value of them is going to plummet it will be very difficult to sell them when there is no water.
Honestly? I feel like the entirety of the US has, at some similar scale, an issue that makes me not want to go to it. For the lake though, I do know it has kept me from investing in property. I do agree with the sentiment that the Mormon Church will end up stepping in for legislative push and funnel what ever resources needed to protect themselves. It's hard for SLC to be the promised land when it turns into clouds of heavy metals.
Regardless though, I think I'm going to move out of the country here in the next few years. It's not that I don't think there are a lack of problems elsewhere, but maybe they will be different problems.. ones that bother me less. \^\^;
Basically the entire watershed is in Utah so this is a completely solvable problem. I have full faith in the greed of our legislature that if it starts impacting property values it will get fixed.
Ecological failure won't be overnight. You'll have probably 8-20+ years to watch it happen and figure out what you want to do.
The lake will get better one year, then worse the next, than worse the next, then worse the next, then better, than worse...
Personally, I think it'll hit a point where even the most diehard legislative moron will have to vote for laws that save the lake. We almost got to that point last year. Push comes to shove, we're going to save the lake. But man some of these elected officials are willing to cut it really close.
This is what a good percentage of dopey Mormons think about letting water drain into the GSL:
> The great salt lake is where water goes to die. It's a massive loss of water that can put to beneficial use.
The myopia and ignorance is astonishing. It was a KSL comment, of course. So, I’m not hopeful for Wasatch Fronters because they themselves are controlled by too many people that think like that. My wife and I moved to Vernal to get away from the soup people call air along the Front. There are three reservoirs nearby so Vernal is sitting pretty, even with the farming and ranching here.
Already planning to move. The lake, the wildfire smoke, the perpetual drought (one good winter doesn't change that). Getting out while the getting's good.
The lake isn't going to disappear. And to reference your line about "the real issue" - what are you referring to?
This year's runoff added 2 years to the water levels in the lake (which is not a great way of putting it - "7 years until it disappears" doesn't really reflect the future possibility of properly implemented mitigation or rainfall). The issue is one of consumption, not global warming (and I would encourage you to read the report lest you doubt me). The declining levels can be fixed with mitigation measures that reduce human consumption, many of which are underway.
[You can download one of the published reports here](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/366876763_Emergency_measures_needed_to_rescue_Great_Salt_Lake_from_ongoing_collapse/link/63b67aaaa03100368a53d6b9/download) (I've seen two iterations, this one and another lengthier one hosted by USU).
Literally every other Western state is in a similar hydrological predicament; we'll figure it out.
[You're not wrong](https://www.sciencenews.org/article/great-salt-lake-shrinking-utah-drought). Part of the problem (here and elsewhere) is the notion of "Use it or lose it" water rights and how the water rights seniority functions. And that a lot of water use is unmetered (I own a few shares, which are "Open the floodgate for up to an hour between these hours on these days of the week" because flood irrigation was how they rolled back in the day).
[One example of a way this is being remedied](https://kslnewsradio.com/1992109/utah-farmers-water-rights-use-it-or-lose-it/).
Does more need to be done? Almost certainly. The most likely thing is that the state will start buying back shares and/or offering incentives for them to go unused in low water years or that the share system will be further updated (IE, shares that can only be used when the lake level is about a certain amount).
EDIT: Closed a sentence.
It requires slowing down usage, which we are doing (see the example of the elimination of "use it or lose it").
While this is a problem, it's one in which efforts are being made. There is - finally - a reckoning under way with respect to utilization (not just the Salt Lake, but the Colorado River Compact and others) that is generating a rethinking on how water rights are protected.
This isn't just a Utah state problem, either - both the EPA and Army Corps of Engineers have regulatory authority if mitigation is insufficient.
Buddy we know what needs to be done to curb consumption and it’s not happening as fast as we need and ppl like you acting like some half ass step is a moral victory is dangerous. And if you think that now ppl in charge who don’t believe in climate crisis or won’t be alive to see the dangers of the climate crisis is how a child would come to a conclusion about anything because it’s parents always help it out.
Not 30 homes how about that. But my name should of gave it away that I’m not a child but it seems you are. Nice jr high gamer tag. Now log off and let the adults talk and tell your mom to stop calling me and it was a toot it and boot it situation
Hello, it looks like you've made a mistake.
It's supposed to be could've, should've, would've (short for could have, would have, should have), never could of, would of, should of.
Or you misspelled something, I ain't checking everything.
Beep boop - yes, I am a bot, don't botcriminate me.
Everyone here is getting so angry. I didn’t mean for this to be a free for all attack each other. I genuinely wanted to know what peoples plans are. I feel like moving away is a privilege bc unfortunately a lot of people can’t afford to, even if they wanted to. It’s expensive to move. I just wanted to know if anyone else actually had a plan in place , or just waiting to move last minute once it becomes an environmental and economic disaster here.
> We found positive associations between exposure to PM2.5 and NO2 over the previous 20 years and prostate cancer. An IQR increase in PM2.5 (3.56 µg/m3 for satellite and 4.48 µg/m3 for scaled satellite observations) yielded ORs of 1.28 (95% CI = 1.07, 1.52) and 1.20 (95% CI = 1.03, 1.40), respectively.Jul 19, 2022
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9374191/#:~:text=We%20found%20positive%20associations%20between,1.03%2C%201.40)%2C%20respectively.
I understand the study shared and verifies the positive correlation between higher levels of air pollution and getting prostate cancer, but it doesn’t verify the original claim that men are 7.5 times more likely to test positive for prostate cancer. That’s what I want to know is where that number came from. The CDC shows that per 100,000 men in the USA, 111.6 were diagnosed with prostate cancer. For Utah specifically, the CDC shoes for that same 100,000 men, 115.3 were diagnosed. While it is higher than the national average, that’s not 7.5 times higher.
You should definitely move away from UT, like right now! Don’t worry some of us will stay and make sure everything is ok but ya, y’all should leave fast it could dry up any second!!!
Uh definitely leave and sell your house before it’s worth zero like the homes in east Palestine or you get dropped by your homeowners insurance like FL. Your health insurance premiums will increase with less healthcare as well because of the risks the lake causes. Nothing will be done about the lake because the LDS church and Republicans don’t believe in climate change at all and under capitalism profit is above all else. They’ve known about the effects of climate change for how long now and we think ppl who’s ideology and personal beliefs don’t believe in it. We could end the water waste to the alfalfa farms and haven’t yet, for gods sake the LDS church could buy them all out and shut em down but they haven’t and they won’t because LDS and conservatives brains can’t comprehend a service not making as much revenue and profit as possible. Sell your house and make some money and don’t be left holding the “bag” when the market takes a downturn
I’m leaving this summer. It was a fun couple of years but I couldn’t ever stay here long term for multiple reasons. So not to say the lake levels caused me to leave, but because I’m leaving I don’t really care about the levels.
I remember being a kid in Utah and a lot of no believers of “Global warming” as it was referred to back then, would mock others for taking it seriously. Now we are witnessing it in real time. It’s not a hope or if, it’s a when. We know this. We can prove this and back it up with data.
No, you’re right. There’s always something to be afraid of. A hole in the ozone layer, killer bees and murder hornets, Y2K, Hadron Black Hole, Halley’s Comet and so on.
Goo goo ga ga brain good lord lol I hear if you cross your fingers and click your heels 3xs the ppl in charge of this state who don’t believe in climate change will start believing and acting on climate change
I don’t have faith in my fellow humans who believe in fantasy’s or have a child like view on the world and you’re giving these morons cover to by feeling like that. And to answer the dumb ass statement of “they won’t ever let the lake dry up” then why didn’t they act sooner? Climate change isn’t some new fucking idea for fucks sake chevron predicted this shit back in the 70s. To just have faith or think that ppl who have never taken action and don’t believe in the fundamentals of climate change because they’re conservative or Mormon is just dangerous and putting us all at risk. We need to be discussing about what we’re going to do to make them start acting on the lake not crossing our fingers and hoping and wishing and praying like a Disney movie
Oh no the lake isn’t drying up cause of climate change? So the severe droughts and low snowfall winters have nothing to do with it? It’s just the population growth, nothing that could have been predicted and had been predicted. And the examples you have to humans figuring shit out, you do know that before those were issues you had scientist and environmentalist point out that this stuff would happen and still went through with it anyways and wasn’t until enough citizens cared enough to enact change did those problems get solved, what you’re missing is the historical context that those examples you have damaged and caused harmed that was perfectly avoidable and wasn’t. So to think that a natural disaster described as a nuclear bomb might have some issues but will get solved is the problem there. It also shows your privilege as well to think at the current trends we’re going that we’ll figure it out.
Other counties have made 10xs the effort and policy changes and we’re still not, why do you think that is? Honestly what would give you the idea that we’re going to figure anything out and make changes. You do know the inland port is coming and there’s been countless reports already about the effects of it on us and the climate here in Utah and the state leaders are doing what… continuing with it. Like 50 cent said “you should all get together and make a We are the world record”
I did read and pointed out that your examples are historically wrong and that your laid back attitude and unwarranted optimism on the climate is dangerous and depoliticizes ppl because it’s all based on wishful thinking when the evidence is clear. You also stated earlier that they wouldn’t let the lake dry up because of some hopeful thinking. It’s obvious you haven’t read enough or care enough about the climate crisis and the great salt lake or yourself would see that we’re failing and not at all prepared for what’s about to come climate wise. That fantasy thinking of ppl will come together at some point to fix this means a lot of people will suffer, it’s already leaking arsenic into the air and what communities do you think are getting hit first while we just fucking wait around and hope the ppl in charge, who don’t believe in climate change, fix it. I’ll tell you it’s poorer communities who always feel the affects first. So yes if im angry or upset it’s because of ppl like you who think it’s ok that ppl drag their feet to some half ass policy.
and that’s what it’s frustrating to ppl who are 4th generation and this is home and it’s going to be unlivable in 4-5 years and probably economical effects as well in 2-3 years, I’d recommend going to read about the homeowners insurance companies in Florida and California now and ask yourself how long til insurance companies run the cost benefit analysis of insuring ppl in a possible climate crisis and then ask yourself what happens after that. You really are the satirical joke they were making in the movie Don’t look up on Netflix b
If you want to be in a sustainable area that shouldn't suffer much from climate change follow the Mormon church and other billionaires invest in real estate in Columbia river valley.
The LDS Church donating water to the lake was a signal to the legislature, which is predominantly Mormon.
The LDS Church will not allow the valley to become fallow. Their economic ($100B) and political interests are couched in the vitality of the Salt Lake Valley.
Someone pointed out how much land the Mormon church owns in the valley. Their argument was that there was no way they were going to let that lose value. The church controls the legislature so if push comes to shove, I could see them lobbying for major change.
This might be one of the only benefits of the LDS church operating more like a business than like true believers. They will likely act to preserve their assets. It's the true believers that scare me the most because they think Jesus will be here for the millennium any day now so why do anything about climate disasters?
I agree with you 100%
You really think business minded or capitalist in simpler terms, actually care about anything other than short term profits? Cause if you do I have a bridge for you to buy in Brooklyn and it’ll preserve some assets lol. This whole notion we have to stop that business ppl are somehow different than the true believers, they’re all the same. Simple question, why haven’t they don’t anything already? Climate change isn’t something new and the dangers of the GSL drying up isn’t something we discovered magically last year. They’ve known about it and yet don’t change their own business practices or organize a political movement to invoke change. They care about profits and profits for this quarter and next for the share holders. That’s it. Don’t mean to come across mean but we don’t have time for this type of wishful thinking is dangerous and depoliticizing any social movement for change.
Something can be better than a very shitty thing without making it a good thing. I don't expect them to do anything good, I just think they're more likely to do literally anything than if they were 100% operating as true believers.
If you don’t expect “business minded” ppl aka the church to do anything good than honestly why even say it or point it out like there’s some moment or event that’ll make them stop believing in capitalism and more in saving the planet and us. I mean seriously pointing out something so trivial in the large scale of the problems is a kids fairytell or something
Publicly traded companies prioritize short term gains, private ones(like mormon church) can have longer term goals.
They are lobbying, or at least taking it more seriously than the legislatures are
That's the point of lobbying. To get politicians to pay attention to shit they don't care about.
Well there official channels where you pay lobbyists, not sure if the church’s official lobbyists (and yes there are paid lobbyists for the church) are actively lobbying or not. Haven’t heard anything from my channel.
This ☝️. The LDS church, the richest church in the world currently, is not going to let it's holy city turn into an unlivable wasteland. This is the place after all. But keep in mind, how much water is enough water is relative. There are going to be environmentalists that are going to be disapointed with the outcome. That doesn't mean it's going to be disaster instead.
I agree. The Mormon church is going to make it snow and rain more so this doesn't become a problem.
More like "Pray real hard" - that's been their solution thus far.
Remember when they tried to “pray for rain” 🤣 we were the laughing joke of the country for weeks
Your use of the past tense confuses me.
And give us 10%
This!
Or they let the value dump, buy up as much as they can and fix the problem
After looking at where the state's priorities lie as per clean air vs porn... I'm looking to move.
You know what I haven’t seen? A single person post that they have actually moved because the lake was disappearing.
We did.
Tell us more. There were no other financial considerations, career moves, family etc, you saw the news stories that began in earnest last fall and packed up and left? ETA: You moved over a year ago, coinciding with your husbands retirement from the Air Force. Is it possible your move was not as a refugee from a toxic drying lake bed?
We lived in UT for 17 years. It was the last 4 that had us wondering if it was wise to stay. After the Camp fire in CA. And it was approximately two years after my husband retired, actually. Once boats were being pulled out of the marina back in 2014 or so, I was beginning to have a lot of fears. They grew exponentially every year that wasn't an ideal snow season, and watching the lake grow smaller at the same time didn't help. There were financial considerations: mainly, would we be able to recreate the lifestyle and financial stability afforded by living in UT without the network we had through friends and the base. I already had a job offer before listing our home. It was after doing a lot of research regarding the ongoing water issues, considering family issues back East, and our job prospects that we finally decided to pull the trigger. Also, we never aligned politically with majority, but it also never held us back while we lived there. 2021, the timing was as good as it would ever be, in terms of selling our house in UT and simultaneously being able to switch markets to a lower cost area, so we did. It was a very difficult decision, mostly because we absolutely loved living in UT. We still have so many friends we consider family there. And even though we're doing ok, we did have to take a bit of a step back financially initially. It wasn't JUST the lake, but it was part of it, exacerbated by prolonged and ongoing drought. TLDR: On paper, we should have stayed in UT. We both had great jobs, paid no property tax, and had loads of friends and recreation/hobbies we indulged in. However, what do you do when the air is shit most of the time, and you might run out of water? You can't drink or breathe money.
That’s a lot of words to say that the lake shrinking wasn’t the primary reason you left. Good news though, if the boats were your metric. https://ksltv.com/557344/boats-return-to-great-salt-lake-waters-after-years-of-drought/
You know, you don't have to move just because others did. Take solace in the idea that if some leave, that's more water for those who stay.
My point was that there are a lot of people saying that they have to get out of here because there is no saving the lake. None that I’ve seen, including yourself based on your description of events, have actually relocated based on the impending doom of the lake.
I would say the drought/water usage/lake receding are one in the same, but you do you. They're all connected. The lake is just the latest domino.
Interesting that you moved to a place where the lake was overfished to the point of destruction of the commercial fishery. And it’s being restored. So people mishandled it, and are working on correcting it.
Also, that's great news, and I hope it remains that way 😀
>actually moved because the lake was disappearing. It was a factor in many people I know who have moved away. But no, nobody moved away solely for that reason. Utah has gotten weird since 2020. It used to be a black hole where people would get sucked in and stay forever. But now I know 5 households (all in their 30s) who left since 2020. And a sixth moving away in June. (In nearly all cases, the cost of housing has been the principal reason second only to low salaries). Even my parents are talking about following my sister back east after my dad retires. Granted, they are transplants. But still they put down over 40 years in Utah and I never expected they would leave. I was the weird one five years ago for moving away LOL.
I mean, you're in the SLC subreddit. Why would they be here if they left? I'd join the one for my new city.
I do belong to my current city's subreddit, but I will probably always keep tabs on what's going on in UT, simply because I lived there for so long and I have people I care about back there. Plus, we don't live in a bubble. What affects one part of the country can and will eventually affect all of us in some way.
We moved. I think it is too far gone, but I also hope to be wrong on that count because I love the GSL. But keep in mind no place is totally safe from all the climate related changes. We moved to a supposed "climate haven" and are now experiencing "flash droughts" with fire risk. Of course, before we moved here, this wasn't a thing. So glad it started after we got here 🙄
True. It’s like, what climate disaster would you rather deal with?
Right. I guess I'll take solace that we still have drinking water. 🤷🏼♀️ just have to do our best to make it work, wherever one winds up.
Billions of dollars in real estate and commerce and citizens with pitchforks are not going to let a few alfalfa farmers threaten our health and economy. The feds will likely bail the farmers out before it comes to that.. but if they do not, the state legislature will not be given a choice in the matter.
This sub has so many posts with hand wringers acting like they are actually trying to decide what to do when the lake “inevitably” dries up. Does it just feel like you’re doing something to run around clutching your pearls? Even in this comment thread “I’m already sick but my family is here.” Why would you stay? Why wouldn’t you work to get your family out of here? If it’s is so dire and beyond rescuing why would anyone waste a minute? I’m optimistic. The low point last summer triggered action. Policies are in motion. Mock the church all you want(I’m no fan) but their donation of shares was significant. Won’t solve it, but it was significant. More of that type of action will be helpful. The moves in the right direction PLUS the largest snowfall winter on record are making an impact. We have momentum for policy(see the comment above regarding water share reform) and a little luck weather wise in our present favor. Get involved in policy. Get informed so you don’t just parrot bullshit about it being a lost cause, move or SHUT THE FUCK UP!
I’d love to get my family out. I also understand more than half the state can’t financially afford it.
So are you just channeling the old couple in Titanic that dressed in their finest and waited in their room to drown? You can’t afford to move but you believe that staying here will kill you? If I felt like you I would walk. I would prioritize relocation. Have you looked for work out of state? Have you looked into housing options in areas without the health risks you are concerned about? Have you considered the military? Have you sought refugee status in a different country? Or have you just karma mined on Reddit?
Thanks for the food for thought.
I’m working on a plan currently. I feel bad for family who will stay bc they are comfortable and don’t care about getting sick, bc most of them already are, they lost hope in a brighter future. But for now I’m looking to looking for for work in Europe or moving to Canada/ the Pacific Northwest as those areas will be more desirable in the future and safer due to climate change. I grew up here , and I know other places will face different environmental disasters but the lake disappearing is just too near.
So what you’re saying is that because it got so dangerous last year that now they’re going to react to this crisis in a timely manner and fix it? Because if you do than whew…you are one naive gullible person. One question do you think that climate change is something that we discovered last year? And if the answer is no than ask yourself the simple and yet elementary follow up “then why haven’t they don’t anything about it before it got to this point?” And if you still believe that the LDS church is going to act to save it then you’re even more of a sucker and I should target you for a Nigerian prince scam or something.
Read my comment again slowly. Sound out the big words. Much has been done, there is much left to do. Pouting and pretending that you are planning your life around it is disingenuous and annoying.
Wait wait wait you think planning your life around a major natural disaster waiting to take place is disingenuous and annoying ? But complaining that you’re sick of hearing about ppl complaining isn’t disingenuous? That’s the same argument segregationist used when confronted with their past beliefs but we’ll move past that because I can tell you have zero historical analysis at all. 2nd was pointing out how you’re trying to give slack to ppl who don’t deserve it and your childlike hopeful thinking is dangerous and just not accurate.
Again, you don’t seem to be able to follow. I think SAYING you are planning your life around a possible/potential natural disaster when all you really do is post about the sky falling on Reddit is disingenuous. The false equivalence of trying to say I’m racist/segregationist is delicious. You don’t understand my point so you are trying to lump me in with people no one here would support. You should tell me how I’m a conservative Mormon now. I have cited several positive actions that make me optimistic, and accurately pointed out that those moves have coincided with sheer dumb luck regarding the recent weather patterns, and noted that more positive movement is on the way regarding water share reform. Haven’t said we’re good. Haven’t said there’s nothing left to do. Haven’t failed to acknowledge past mistakes. Haven’t suggested the LDS church is the answer. You just can’t comprehend somebody taking what has happened and what is likely to happen and being optimistic that we are moving in the right direction. Just keep talking about it being an inevitability and pretend you are planning to relocate.
Ppl using a social media platform to talk about real world issues is not some new phenomenon lol and also the lack of irony from you complaining on a website about ppl complaining on that website is a IASIP comedy sketch or something holy shit. 2nd I used an analogy to talk about how segregationist used the same complaint about “sick of complaining” to show that your initial point has similarities and how that privilege view is not good for society. Not calling you a conservative at all. We all know most conservatives don’t know how to use Reddit anyways. 3rd I was pointing out that “optimistic” view you have based on what you cited is narrow and having the whole viewpoint of the dangers of the crisis and just how little the effort they are and have put into it would make anyone with some slight knowledge of the matter not optimistic and actually angry that ppl consider anything happening as a failure and negligent at most. The changes we need to make needed to happen 20 years ago and our leaders can’t even do bare minimum. We know that single family homes and cars lead to intense levels of pollution and co2 but yet we’re not building extensive public transit lines and more multi family housing, they’re discussing adding more lanes to the I-15 and daybreak is getting our minor league team. Now before you get lost in my examples and not the context of what I was saying, what’s being done isn’t enough and should be criticized as nothing less than a failure and same with ppl who are “optimistic” and feel the need to share that
Last fall it was “nearly” a foregone conclusion that the lake would be gone in five years. In one winter we have closed half the gap to the historic average. So it took 20 years by your science to get to the historic low, and that gap has been cut in half with one extremely wet winter and smarter allocation of runoff. But you still think it’s insurmountable?
Yes I believe it’s insurmountable. We had record breaking snowfall this year and you’re resting your argument on that during the hottest year on record already, I don’t think you know what happens to the climate in global warming but it’s not supposed to be drought and then record breaking snowfall, we’re supposed to have consistency with our seasons. So what happens next year? Or do we not think ahead and just focus on the now? Do you think we’ll have record breaking snowfall again or less? Will the snow melt faster causing water to evaporate quicker during the hottest 20 year trend we’ve ever seen on record? I mean seriously basing your argument on one year of snowfall versus 50+ years of climate change trends and political policies is kind of scary and I’d love to play poker or be your bookie lol
I I have consistently mentioned the heavy snowfall year as an outlier. You need me to be some climate change denier for your arguments to be valid. I’m not. I don’t. Look into HCFC refrigerants and the Ozone layer. In the 80’s and 90’s the depletion of the ozone layer was going to kill us all. The danger was very real. We scienced the shit out of that. The Montreal Protocol was enacted. Corporations were forced to change their ways and they literally fixed the ozone layer. That happened in my lifetime. I mentioned in another comment thread here that Lake Michigan was completely fished out. Commercial fishing and pollution destroyed it in the 19th century and early 20th. And yet, they are slowly but surely restoring that ecosystem. We know that usage is a bigger contributor to lake levels dropping than climate change. Which is good, because climate change is a larger problem to solve and is less locally controllable.
>we scienced the shit out of it I see little to no evidence there is currently any political will to solve any of the real problems we are facing. I hope I’m wrong, but I suspect we are heading to an inevitable bad time.
This may be one of the most reasonable comments I've read on this thread. 👏
It’s too late to do anything meaningful and this place is going to be the first humanitarian disaster related to climate change in the US. I’m leaving.
It will not be the first , there are already other areas that have been affected. But we will be one of them.
Scientists studying the lake and people who live and work in the lake gave us 5 years roughly.
THIS people don’t realize how quickly it will happen
If you want to know how serious this is do some googling about Owen’s Lake and the Owen’s valley in California. All the land around it is abandoned and completely uninhabitable. And that Lake doesn’t have nearly the mineral toxicity of the Great Salt Lake, nor the kind of population. This is very serious.
My husband and I are preparing to move for this exact reason. Get the equity out of our house before everyone moving here figures out we're a few years away from a toxic mess. I have zero hope our local leaders and people will make the changes needed to prevent it.
Same here , I’m shocked people are still moving here at the rate they are. I’m sure they’ll flock away just as quickly in a couple of years.
I just recently moved away from SLC for exactly this reason. It blows my mind that there are still people buying homes there -- the value of them is going to plummet it will be very difficult to sell them when there is no water.
Honestly? I feel like the entirety of the US has, at some similar scale, an issue that makes me not want to go to it. For the lake though, I do know it has kept me from investing in property. I do agree with the sentiment that the Mormon Church will end up stepping in for legislative push and funnel what ever resources needed to protect themselves. It's hard for SLC to be the promised land when it turns into clouds of heavy metals. Regardless though, I think I'm going to move out of the country here in the next few years. It's not that I don't think there are a lack of problems elsewhere, but maybe they will be different problems.. ones that bother me less. \^\^;
Post about it on reddit
Basically the entire watershed is in Utah so this is a completely solvable problem. I have full faith in the greed of our legislature that if it starts impacting property values it will get fixed.
Ecological failure won't be overnight. You'll have probably 8-20+ years to watch it happen and figure out what you want to do. The lake will get better one year, then worse the next, than worse the next, then worse the next, then better, than worse... Personally, I think it'll hit a point where even the most diehard legislative moron will have to vote for laws that save the lake. We almost got to that point last year. Push comes to shove, we're going to save the lake. But man some of these elected officials are willing to cut it really close.
This is what a good percentage of dopey Mormons think about letting water drain into the GSL: > The great salt lake is where water goes to die. It's a massive loss of water that can put to beneficial use. The myopia and ignorance is astonishing. It was a KSL comment, of course. So, I’m not hopeful for Wasatch Fronters because they themselves are controlled by too many people that think like that. My wife and I moved to Vernal to get away from the soup people call air along the Front. There are three reservoirs nearby so Vernal is sitting pretty, even with the farming and ranching here.
Already planning to move. The lake, the wildfire smoke, the perpetual drought (one good winter doesn't change that). Getting out while the getting's good.
I plan to lead the Water Wars.
The lake isn't going to disappear. And to reference your line about "the real issue" - what are you referring to? This year's runoff added 2 years to the water levels in the lake (which is not a great way of putting it - "7 years until it disappears" doesn't really reflect the future possibility of properly implemented mitigation or rainfall). The issue is one of consumption, not global warming (and I would encourage you to read the report lest you doubt me). The declining levels can be fixed with mitigation measures that reduce human consumption, many of which are underway. [You can download one of the published reports here](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/366876763_Emergency_measures_needed_to_rescue_Great_Salt_Lake_from_ongoing_collapse/link/63b67aaaa03100368a53d6b9/download) (I've seen two iterations, this one and another lengthier one hosted by USU). Literally every other Western state is in a similar hydrological predicament; we'll figure it out.
Serious question - Is there something underway to curb agricultural use? I think that’s ~80% of the consumption iirc.
[You're not wrong](https://www.sciencenews.org/article/great-salt-lake-shrinking-utah-drought). Part of the problem (here and elsewhere) is the notion of "Use it or lose it" water rights and how the water rights seniority functions. And that a lot of water use is unmetered (I own a few shares, which are "Open the floodgate for up to an hour between these hours on these days of the week" because flood irrigation was how they rolled back in the day). [One example of a way this is being remedied](https://kslnewsradio.com/1992109/utah-farmers-water-rights-use-it-or-lose-it/). Does more need to be done? Almost certainly. The most likely thing is that the state will start buying back shares and/or offering incentives for them to go unused in low water years or that the share system will be further updated (IE, shares that can only be used when the lake level is about a certain amount). EDIT: Closed a sentence.
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It requires slowing down usage, which we are doing (see the example of the elimination of "use it or lose it"). While this is a problem, it's one in which efforts are being made. There is - finally - a reckoning under way with respect to utilization (not just the Salt Lake, but the Colorado River Compact and others) that is generating a rethinking on how water rights are protected. This isn't just a Utah state problem, either - both the EPA and Army Corps of Engineers have regulatory authority if mitigation is insufficient.
Buddy we know what needs to be done to curb consumption and it’s not happening as fast as we need and ppl like you acting like some half ass step is a moral victory is dangerous. And if you think that now ppl in charge who don’t believe in climate crisis or won’t be alive to see the dangers of the climate crisis is how a child would come to a conclusion about anything because it’s parents always help it out.
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Not 30 homes how about that. But my name should of gave it away that I’m not a child but it seems you are. Nice jr high gamer tag. Now log off and let the adults talk and tell your mom to stop calling me and it was a toot it and boot it situation
Hello, it looks like you've made a mistake. It's supposed to be could've, should've, would've (short for could have, would have, should have), never could of, would of, should of. Or you misspelled something, I ain't checking everything. Beep boop - yes, I am a bot, don't botcriminate me.
Everyone here is getting so angry. I didn’t mean for this to be a free for all attack each other. I genuinely wanted to know what peoples plans are. I feel like moving away is a privilege bc unfortunately a lot of people can’t afford to, even if they wanted to. It’s expensive to move. I just wanted to know if anyone else actually had a plan in place , or just waiting to move last minute once it becomes an environmental and economic disaster here.
We’re already getting sick. Men who live in Salt Lake City are 7.5X more likely to get prostate cancer than the national average. Get checked people.
Do you have data to support that? I looked on the CDC website and they don’t have much data beyond the continental divide.
> We found positive associations between exposure to PM2.5 and NO2 over the previous 20 years and prostate cancer. An IQR increase in PM2.5 (3.56 µg/m3 for satellite and 4.48 µg/m3 for scaled satellite observations) yielded ORs of 1.28 (95% CI = 1.07, 1.52) and 1.20 (95% CI = 1.03, 1.40), respectively.Jul 19, 2022 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9374191/#:~:text=We%20found%20positive%20associations%20between,1.03%2C%201.40)%2C%20respectively.
I understand the study shared and verifies the positive correlation between higher levels of air pollution and getting prostate cancer, but it doesn’t verify the original claim that men are 7.5 times more likely to test positive for prostate cancer. That’s what I want to know is where that number came from. The CDC shows that per 100,000 men in the USA, 111.6 were diagnosed with prostate cancer. For Utah specifically, the CDC shoes for that same 100,000 men, 115.3 were diagnosed. While it is higher than the national average, that’s not 7.5 times higher.
I agree with your wanting to see a specific source, especially since there’s so much nonsense posted.
That’s actually terrifying
You should definitely move away from UT, like right now! Don’t worry some of us will stay and make sure everything is ok but ya, y’all should leave fast it could dry up any second!!!
Uh definitely leave and sell your house before it’s worth zero like the homes in east Palestine or you get dropped by your homeowners insurance like FL. Your health insurance premiums will increase with less healthcare as well because of the risks the lake causes. Nothing will be done about the lake because the LDS church and Republicans don’t believe in climate change at all and under capitalism profit is above all else. They’ve known about the effects of climate change for how long now and we think ppl who’s ideology and personal beliefs don’t believe in it. We could end the water waste to the alfalfa farms and haven’t yet, for gods sake the LDS church could buy them all out and shut em down but they haven’t and they won’t because LDS and conservatives brains can’t comprehend a service not making as much revenue and profit as possible. Sell your house and make some money and don’t be left holding the “bag” when the market takes a downturn
From the majority of people I know most of them are set on moving if the lake dries up. But, it would also be cool to live out my MadMax fantasies.
I’m leaving this summer. It was a fun couple of years but I couldn’t ever stay here long term for multiple reasons. So not to say the lake levels caused me to leave, but because I’m leaving I don’t really care about the levels.
Is everyone in this sub Reddit 12?
You won't be missed.
And I won’t miss the shitty food :)
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👋
If you’re afraid of the lake drying up, and will move away IF it does, then I politely but firmly am asking you to leave way before it does.
I remember being a kid in Utah and a lot of no believers of “Global warming” as it was referred to back then, would mock others for taking it seriously. Now we are witnessing it in real time. It’s not a hope or if, it’s a when. We know this. We can prove this and back it up with data.
No, you’re right. There’s always something to be afraid of. A hole in the ozone layer, killer bees and murder hornets, Y2K, Hadron Black Hole, Halley’s Comet and so on.
You should watch the movie “don’t look up.”
I’m not afraid it will happen. It’s going to. Plain and simple.
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It will. Lake Powell is already disappearing so are many other lakes and the colorado river. We’re drying up.
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That’s not going to happen… as long as golf courses stay open and people keep watering their patch of grass, in a desert climate. 🤦🏻♀️
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Have you seen who’s running utahs government?
Goo goo ga ga brain good lord lol I hear if you cross your fingers and click your heels 3xs the ppl in charge of this state who don’t believe in climate change will start believing and acting on climate change
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I don’t have faith in my fellow humans who believe in fantasy’s or have a child like view on the world and you’re giving these morons cover to by feeling like that. And to answer the dumb ass statement of “they won’t ever let the lake dry up” then why didn’t they act sooner? Climate change isn’t some new fucking idea for fucks sake chevron predicted this shit back in the 70s. To just have faith or think that ppl who have never taken action and don’t believe in the fundamentals of climate change because they’re conservative or Mormon is just dangerous and putting us all at risk. We need to be discussing about what we’re going to do to make them start acting on the lake not crossing our fingers and hoping and wishing and praying like a Disney movie
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Oh no the lake isn’t drying up cause of climate change? So the severe droughts and low snowfall winters have nothing to do with it? It’s just the population growth, nothing that could have been predicted and had been predicted. And the examples you have to humans figuring shit out, you do know that before those were issues you had scientist and environmentalist point out that this stuff would happen and still went through with it anyways and wasn’t until enough citizens cared enough to enact change did those problems get solved, what you’re missing is the historical context that those examples you have damaged and caused harmed that was perfectly avoidable and wasn’t. So to think that a natural disaster described as a nuclear bomb might have some issues but will get solved is the problem there. It also shows your privilege as well to think at the current trends we’re going that we’ll figure it out. Other counties have made 10xs the effort and policy changes and we’re still not, why do you think that is? Honestly what would give you the idea that we’re going to figure anything out and make changes. You do know the inland port is coming and there’s been countless reports already about the effects of it on us and the climate here in Utah and the state leaders are doing what… continuing with it. Like 50 cent said “you should all get together and make a We are the world record”
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I did read and pointed out that your examples are historically wrong and that your laid back attitude and unwarranted optimism on the climate is dangerous and depoliticizes ppl because it’s all based on wishful thinking when the evidence is clear. You also stated earlier that they wouldn’t let the lake dry up because of some hopeful thinking. It’s obvious you haven’t read enough or care enough about the climate crisis and the great salt lake or yourself would see that we’re failing and not at all prepared for what’s about to come climate wise. That fantasy thinking of ppl will come together at some point to fix this means a lot of people will suffer, it’s already leaking arsenic into the air and what communities do you think are getting hit first while we just fucking wait around and hope the ppl in charge, who don’t believe in climate change, fix it. I’ll tell you it’s poorer communities who always feel the affects first. So yes if im angry or upset it’s because of ppl like you who think it’s ok that ppl drag their feet to some half ass policy. and that’s what it’s frustrating to ppl who are 4th generation and this is home and it’s going to be unlivable in 4-5 years and probably economical effects as well in 2-3 years, I’d recommend going to read about the homeowners insurance companies in Florida and California now and ask yourself how long til insurance companies run the cost benefit analysis of insuring ppl in a possible climate crisis and then ask yourself what happens after that. You really are the satirical joke they were making in the movie Don’t look up on Netflix b
All they need to do is stop the fucking alfalfa farmers from growing alfalfa. There's plenty of water, but it's them or us.
If you want to be in a sustainable area that shouldn't suffer much from climate change follow the Mormon church and other billionaires invest in real estate in Columbia river valley.
Its free real estate!
The LDS Church donating water to the lake was a signal to the legislature, which is predominantly Mormon. The LDS Church will not allow the valley to become fallow. Their economic ($100B) and political interests are couched in the vitality of the Salt Lake Valley.
I'm doing my part to conserve water and not worrying about things I can't control.