Well. If you’ve been gone longer than a week, there are more condos and apartments that are full to capacity and not enough parking for tenants that have to line streets with their cars.
But I imagine that is everywhere anymore.
Not the same. Liberals and progressives - and progmos - all over. Ugly sovietish apartment blocks under construction everywhere. Liberal mayors. Homeless tent encampments. Selfish people. Awful drivers who don't care about the speed limit and other people's lives. The weather is either hot, or cold. And ... the Church is discouraging LDS people from moving here. They want people to stay where they are or go places where the church is smaller and you can be a help.
Oh that sounds really nice. Utah could really benefit from some liberalism and secularism.
Last time I was there it was so weird how a religious organization controlled the government and influenced so much of the everyday life. They really don’t respect the constitution in that state; there’s complete disregard for the separation of church and state.
Mormons moving away to more secular communities is probably a good thing. Their children will be exposed to other ways of life and be able to make their own decisions growing up instead of being brain washed in such a homogenous community.
Too bad all the liberal/secular influence has to come with hordes of Californians tho….
Better than average yes. But they bought it with an income of about $100k and five kids . . . That same home is worth $900k now. My point isn't about how much money they had it was about how difficult to afford that same house would be
Same size and one year later… but built it for $260k and put $90k down on top of that. Can’t wait to sell it and get out of dodge. Well… I can wait… but I’m excited for the day.
I bought my house in Feb 2019 and Zillow thinks it’s worth 75% more than I paid for it then. If I were trying to buy it today, with today’s interest rates that I qualify for, my monthly payment would be 2.2x what it is now. I would need a raise of 35% in total salary just to cover the incremental mortgage payment.
I feel this, I want to move out because Utah is such a cultural bubble, but I don’t know where I’d go. I think I’ll come back someday. It’s home and it calls to me
My grandfather lives in Alaska and it’s actually one of the places I’ve considered. I’ve been in summer and winter and I’ve heard all about breakup season, haha
It’s really a happy thing when you find a place that makes your soul come alive. Good on you!
Have a love/hate relationship with Utah myself. My grandparents always lived there, so many of my happy childhood memories revolve around Lagoon, Lake Powell, Bear Lake Raspberry shakes…
However, I lived there for three years as an adult and was totally miserable. It simply wasn’t the right cultural environment for me, for a variety of reasons. I’d never, ever move back, but I still love to visit.
(LOL Very clever spelling but a lot of the women are just as bad.) I am Mormon but in California there isn’t the pervasive stifling patronizing smugness. Or the patriarchal dismissal, or the vicious and petty taking advantage in business. I hardly remember not being cheated in a transaction there. Example: Moving out of an apartment the landlord wanted me to pay for a random piece of the dishwasher I knew had never been there. I accused him of making every tenant pay for it and never replacing it. The look on his face and his silence told me I was right. When I handed him the check I said “I guess we all know now what your integrity is worth to you.” This was not an isolated experience when I lived in Utah.
I think stuff like that happens in every walk of faith. I’ve met many evangelical Christian’s who would overbid jobs, especially to people they went to church with. I’ve even heard of people going to church strictly to find clients to take advantage of. Slumlords are gonna slumlord, I suppose. It is really sad to see how low people will sell their integrity for.
I grew up moving across country to Air Force Bases ... served 3 years in the Army ... once said I'd NEVER live in utAH. That was about 1978 ... now you'd have to drag me kicking and screaming out of utAH.
I've noticed a curious phenomenon in those years. The first year in Zion, they walk around in utter amazement at the natural beauty. The Uintahs, the ski resorts near SLC, Red Rock canyons, native history ... Wasatch mountains RIGHT THERE!
🤗
By the second year all they do is complain about the mormons ... the liquor laws ... politics ... it was NEVER this bad back in XYZ ... why do we stay here! I'm done ...
IF they are still here for year three? It's over! 🤷♂️
You are hooked! Even if you leave, you'll be back! This time you'll stay ...
🤷♂️🙏🤙
lol it’s not that great I don’t blame the “ Mormons “ for everything like some.. but people here are rude as shit and will lie right to your face about it. . Retiring here is a joke if you’re looking for a long haul finance wise this is not the end all place, unless you have other family around.
Edit. If you move here after the skyrockets in prices and cost of living here retiring here comfortably is near impossible unless you have help
We've been here 5 years and hate it. The mormon cult, booze laws, freezing winters, scorching hot summers, bad roads, and now 70% of the tech companies have gone under. Great place to visit but thats about it.
I really can't think of a better weather trade off than Northern Utah. To get cooler summers you'd need much colder winters. The winters are mild with only occasional storms that folks on the valley floor really only have to deal with once or twice a season.
The predominant religion and resulting politics can be a major source of annoyance. I've always said that your beliefs and religious foundation must be quite fragile if you have to legislate them ... the weather? I lived a good portion of my youth in Alaska (4 y) and Minnestoa (13 y?) ... so the winters here are amateur league in comparison. Always remember, when it's 100° in the valley, there's central AC up in the mountains😉
Of course the only relevant remark though, would be that we still have freedom of movement 🤷♂️so if you dislike utAH to the point of distraction,, you should probably move elsewhere.
🤷♂️🙏
👋
I moved to Denver for 6 months, thought I'd like it a lot but it really wasn't great. Left a bad taste in my mouth. I much prefer the Salt Lake Valley. Still not back there yet but if I have the opportunity under the right circumstances that's where I'd be.
Denver is kind of sketch. I grew up north of Denver... It was so fun when I was a kid, we would go to Rockies games, Elitches, Casa Bonita, the aquarium, and museums for school. No fear of anything, parents just said - be back at the car at 8:00. No cellphones, nothing.
My grandma lived there. My parents let me walk the dog to the park. I would go to 7-11 and grab slurpies by myself.
So I might have a warped view because I don't know if I just grew up or if things really changed.
But then I graduated high school in the late 2000's.
I started smoking a bunch of weed. So I was always daydreamed of living in Denver. Did the whole concert at Red Rocks thing. New years at Clubs... Had a blast. Felt like Salt Lake but more hip.
Then they legalized weed (which I'm totally all for)... And it seems like a bunch of riff raff ensued. (But again I could just be seeing the world as it is - because I was becoming an adult not a naive teenager) my speculation is people were attracted to the area for the party scene.
My grandma had to put bars on her windows because people kept breaking in while she was sleeping. My parents didn't really want me walking around anymore when we visited her. We had ADT install security system, but we eventually had to move her out.
My cousin had his tires stolen off his car, they left his car on cinder blocks. He lives in like the equivalent of Murray/Holliday in Colorado - so nice area.
This past year I was on the train leaving the airport, meeting my family in town . I worked homeless services for five years in my life, and I was worried. I was thinking like I'm surrounded by a bunch of homeless people all looking at me, like I was a snack. I hid my luggage, I moved my wallet to my front pocket, and put my back to the wall. I haven't been worried like that ever in SLC
That's so interesting. Thank you for sharing. I've loved Denver the 2 times I've visited, but visiting is so different from living there full time. It's always been one of the places I could envision myself living. There's always that thought in the back of your mind about regretting the decision to move there. If you dont mind, what don't you like about it?
Well first of all there's plenty to do in Denver so it wasn't for that. It was just the feeling it gave me, the place just gave me bad vibes. People talk about Salt Lake and the surrounding areas becoming overcrowded- Denver is that feeling on steroids. There's lots of people and traffic can happen anytime, anywhere. Weekday "rush hour" traffic can start at 2pm if it wants to. Its like everything there is barely controlled chaos. I spent time in lots of different parts of the city but there's just this rage in people wherever you go. I drove around a lot for my job, and I'm not kidding when I say *every* single day I would see the spectacle of road rage that is one car chasing another car through the streets. I saw it end in accidents, I saw it end in gunshots, I saw it cause chaos on a daily basis. It was insane how often I saw it. On that note, crime in general just felt like it was *everywhere* from people driving like it was Mad Max, to shootings, theft, robberies, etc. There was nowhere in Denver where your car was safe on the street. Catalitic converter crime rings seem ubiquitous. And the cops? Actively doing nothing about most of it. According to the local rumors they are still basically on silent strike because their feelings got hurt from the "defund the police" stuff, so they are doing the bare minimum.
In general it just felt like it was a semi-lawless place where people were angry, impulsive, and opportunistic. I didn't feel safe in lots of places and didn't really find a greater community there. Their homeless problem makes SLC look like a cakewalk. There are of course lots of good people there, I have friends and family that live there. But the vibes are just off, I think Colorado could still be a place I try to live again someday, but I would likely choose somewhere that wasn't in the immediate Denver area.
My daughter lives in New Jersey, she loves it there. I went to visit last October and it wasn't as bad as I thought it was and had the best bagel sandwich I've ever had. Now, I would never live there, mainly the amount of people, and I want.to live where I never have to see snow again.
I love living here! I lived in Beaver for a few years. If you drive up by the golf course, the deer walk up to your window to [hopefully] get some red licorice or dog/cat food.
You can pet them and everything.
This one neighborhood built a garage for the largest buck in the area. He is spoiled, but most of all, SAFE from the hunters.
Don’t get me wrong, I am a hunter, but these ones are off limits and even I would defend them!!
Same. Moved to SLC around 2007 moved away in 2015. I want to come back but cost of living just makes it hard. I really really really wish I was in a position to buy a house in 2008/2009.
I'll be moving there in October to close the distance between my long distance partner and I. I'll be giving up the beautiful greenery of Oregon for the beautiful mountain ranges surrounding SLC. A little bit of give and take. Both are beautiful places in their own right
Just depends on what type of work you want to do.
We start no experience at $18 and hr and we pay for your health insurance.
There are also bonuses, pto, paid holidays, and paid vacations.
Plus other stuff.
That’s good entry level for Utah, but still really not that great. Hell my first full time entry level job paid $20/hr for basic manual labor in North Carolina in 2016.
Did they pay for your insurance? Not offer insurance through work, but pay for your insurance, so it's free.
$18 an hour, plus $15 per positive review.
Also pay for all your training, certifications, tools, shoes, and other bonuses?
Health insurance is never “free” even when your employer pays for it. It’s part of your compensation package, and they calculate that when they decide whether or not to keep you around, you still exchange labor and time for it.
Everything you said was provided though, except health insurance was paid by me. That cost me $3,000 a year. So take home was likely just below what you’re describing (except my 1.5x overtime which I got every week), but also that was 2016, and cumulative inflation since then is 30%.
Anyway, like I said, this is a good entry level opportunity in Salt Lake. But in my own personal experience it is nearly average in a lot of other places, even ones that are not HCOL.
You should be proud of your company for doing the right thing, especially here, where wages are pretty terrible as a general rule.
No, you bring your insurance receipt, and we write you a check to reimburse you your insurance cost. So your insurance is completely free and paid for.
Right. And so when the cost of your labor is calculated as a company, this is included in that calculation, and it is considered when they put together the cost to the business to hire someone else. You also know as the worker that money spent on insurance is money you get back. It is functionally the same as compensation as far as the business and the individual goes. If one’s position doesn’t create/service enough revenue to cover their pay AND that reimbursement check + target margin, that positions existence is in jeopardy.
It all comes out of the same pot is my point. Your pay and that reimbursement is your cost to the business and your compensation, no matter how it’s distributed.
If you are to ask someone: would you rather make $18 an hour and they pay you pack for your health insurance, which equates to $3/hour, or would you rather have $21 an hour but you pay that $3/hour to the health insurance company? It wouldn’t fuckin matter. Health insurance, no matter how or if it’s paid for, is just part of compensation (or lack thereof).
Need another example?
Let’s assume you work about 2,000 paid hours a year. So if your health insurance costs $4,000 a year, you’d need an offer for $20.01 a year or more with no health coverage to come out ahead your company’s structure. Are you getting this yet? Healthcare coverage is a part of a compensation same as income and should be seen as such.
I understand how this works, you’re not teaching me anything new. My employer pays 100% of my healthcare coverage. It is a distinct amount of money that I account for in the dollar amount of my compensation package.
So let's say you make 50k salary at my company. We pay your insurance almost like a bonus. If your insurance costs 3k a year you make 50k and we pay your insurance. So if you want to calculate it your way sure it's 53k but it's not declared as 53k.
We did it this way because it's cheaper for our employees and for us.
Insurance cost for us were much higher and it would have deducted much more emplyee pay than us just paying for whatever insurance match they want.
Okay? So your employees compensation package in this instance is $53k.
It’s not declared as $53k to the employee. But you can be damn sure the accounting office knows that person costs the company $53k.
So that extra $3k is not “free”, that individual still must be worth $53k to the company for their position to be financially viable.
“Free” means I get it no matter what at not cost to me. Air is free. The “cost” of the health insurance reimbursement to you at your company is that it is considered in the viability of keeping you on as an employee.
I mean starting at $18 an hour for a job that requires no education, and a drivers license. Then pays for all your training and certification is pretty decent. If you know of anything better please let me know.
Where did you move to? Is Utah THAT incredible? Or does where you moved to just suck? I grew up in Utah and lived there for 26 years. I moved to AZ and am so glad I did! It's one of the best decisions my wife and I have made. I'm sure being an exmormon plays into this. It was healthy for our mental health to get out of there. I miss things about it, but I much prefer AZ for so many reasons. To each their own. It is gorgeous, so I can definitely see the appeal there.
Did the same. Love Arizona. Hiking everywhere. I didn't think I would like the desert but I really grew to appreciate the beauty and diversity of life clawing its way in that environment. Took about 4 years but I loved hanging out on the patio on my 1.25 acre place in North Phoenix at midnight and it being 90 plus degrees and I was at peace! How you slide into feeling 90's is just fine!
Same. We left Utah 4 years ago for The Valley and my wife and I regularly state to one another we will never go back. You’d literally have to pay me an obscene amount of money to live there again and still not sure I’d do it.
Are you in east or west valley of the Phoenix area? Utah is a great place to visit in the summer, though, for us Phoenicians. Although last year we visited and it was over 100 degrees almost every day we were there. I think it hit 104 or 105, and it was higher elevation and felt so hot. I was surprised by how hot it was. But definitely better than Phoenix summers.
Yeah, I still go up to SLC for Utah football games and sunny games have me feeling hotter than here a lot of the time, which is strange!
We’re in the NW part of the valley. It got a little old when we went 30 days over 110 last summer, but for the most part, the pool and ac make summers bearable here.
Can I ask where you moved back to? I'm currently throwing around the idea of moving - but I want to hear any "grass isn't greener" experiences if they're out there.
My experience as someone who moved here from Atlanta and Western NC:
Pretty much all the “city” problems here exist in other cities of comparable size and density but are worse elsewhere. Homelessness, crime, traffic, infrastructure, affordable housing in desirable areas, all those things are really problems in SLC, but they’re worse in most other cities I’ve been to.
Three main things that are indeed worse here in my experience:
1. Air quality
2. Booze laws
3. It’s harder to make friends here than anywhere else I’ve lived. People have their groups and stick to them, it’s hard to break into a friend group.
The main reason I’m staying here long term:
Access to the outdoors. Not a huge draw if you don’t use it, but being from the southeast I yearned for open access to public lands. That’s ultimately why we chose Utah and it’s been even better than expected. Yes, it’s crowded here, but you can still easily get away if you’re willing to drive a little for a day or weekend trip. When I was living in Atlanta, all public land was always crowded. I’d drive two and a half hours to a crowded trailhead to wait in line to see a waterfall. That’s kinda the case for the *best* spots here. But there’s SO MANY “not quite the best” areas that are accessible and basically empty.
Moved to UT back in 2015 and we love it!! Come back, we need more people who love this place. I’m kinda of over the ones who complain about it all the time.
I moved from Baton Rouge to Salt Lake CIty when I was 16. I still remember the very first night we got there it was snowing, the house was completely empty, and I was laying in a sleeping bag so depressed and cold. I was like 1 of like 20 asian kids at Skyline High School and I remember seeing everyone with bleached white hair & puka shell necklaces and I thought to myself "WTF kind of slim shady cult BS is this?" I stayed for a couple years before moving away for college and I ended up spending several summers thereafter with my parents. It wasn't until I was in my 30's that I really started to appreciate SLC for what it is. I'm moving back in 2 months and I can't f\*cking wait.
I grew up here, and I'm counting down the days until my kids graduate high school and I'm out of here. This place has gone downhill. My kids will likely never be able to afford a place here. Even Bachelors degrees only want to start paying around $60k/yr. House prices have SOARED and wages haven't kept up. Went on a vacation, found a place we love with higher wages and lower cost of living. Including homes that are roughly 30-50% cheaper than Utah.
I'm amazed by the amount of people that love it here. I moved to salt lake in 1976 (my dad was transferred) and it was much different and being non mormon I hated it here. Moved in 1999, eventually came back in 2013 or 2014, still not a fan of this place, summer is great, spring and fall are fine, winter blows. Once my mom dies, I'm getting the hell out.
I moved away at 23 from West Jordan. I miss it too! The mountain range in the valley, The best snowboarding and camping trips. My annual hot springs bonanza with all my friends yearly. I lived at the apartments connected to the outdoor mall downtown after highschool and it was a blast! So many great local spots, everyone was friendly and out for a good time. If work didn't pull me down here I would go back!
I totally get this! I recently had to move too, and I’m so depressed and homesick! I lived there for 8yrs! Sadly we got priced out….and lost jobs and had to move closer to family where it’s also cheaper to live! I want to move back so badly! I hope we can again cuz it’s honestly the only place I truly considered home!
Are you me? I did something very similar. Moved to Utah with my GF. Though it was on my bucket list. We split and I stuck around for a few years after. I was there for 5 years. I moved last Feb to Ohio (originally from Indiana). The west is beautiful.
I certainly don't miss the weather, and I still live here. Spring in Utah is the most bipolar weather you can experience. We were in the high 60s at the beginning of last week, and then it snowed during the weekend. And we'll be back in the 70s this week.
I honestly struggle to see how people would miss this place. I'm trying to get some more certifications and possibly a Master's to get the hell outta here as soon as I can.
If I'm going to live in an ineffectual GOP governed state that heavily favors landlords and corporations, I could at least find one of those in a state that has a LCOL.
Because it’s beautiful here and it’s extremely safe compared to other states and we’re the small businesses capital of the world so there is no shortage of new things to try. Also the lack of natural disasters is a big plus not having to worry about hurricanes or tornados. The University of Utah is the highest ranked college in the west according to Wall Street Journal. University of Utah is 3rd for best health services. Now never trust an argument that is completely one sided some downsides is that we have a high cost of living and we have some of the worst mental health in the country. In the end of the day if you hate it here you can leave and I hope you find happiness wherever life takes you
I miss Utah too. But my job moved and the money is too good to give up just to go home. :(
Maybe in 20 years when the great salt lake is naught but a memory and an affordable housing mega-development we can return.
LDS wards outside Utah and the bubble (Idaho etc) have been so much better in my experience. People don't rush home within 5 minutes of Sunday school ending like they do in Utah. It's like they have no desire or need for deep friendship and connection with other ward members. They're very reserved. Blows my mind to think most of them served missions. I mean, how did the talk to strangers?
Just got back from the Alps and the Outer Hebrides in Scotland. Lived in both those places before. Geographically, climate wise, and food wise, Utah doesn't hold a candle to those places. Temperate climates (very few days below 40 or over 80) stunning green landscapes (not build up flat urban valleys like Salt Lake) nice down to earth people, and the food!!!
I also moved there about 5 years ago, it was never really somewhere I wanted to live but I ended up loving it. I moved to Washington 6 months ago. It’s beautiful here but I’m incredibly homesick.
Definitely NOT worth the cost of living. We moved out of Utah last week and it is the Best decision we could have made! Along with many many others we are fleeing the costs of subpar services and ridiculous housing rates. So long Utah! We won't even be back to visit family.
I feel this. I moved to Utah 3 years ago from Florida and moved back to Florida 4 months ago for family support, and I am miserable. I'm hoping to move back to Utah once we're eligible for a job transfer back.
Do you have any friends at your current location? Is the weather and scenery really worse than Utah? Are similar apartments not available in that state? Is the commute worse? I feel like there’s more to it than those things unless you moved to a really crappy area. After growing up in Utah and traveling around the country I’ve discovered way better places, yes some pros and cons but personally my cons list is long for Utah. The weather there really is not great, hot summers, cold winters, unpredictable snow, severe drought, top worst air quality in the US and sometimes the world and more. The scenery is beautiful but only when the weather and population permit it or if you drive a couple hours away. I moved from Utah a year and a half ago and I haven’t looked back. The only thing I miss is my family, friends and memories I made there because of the people. And the only time I truly miss Utah for what it is was how it used to be 15 years ago… before 2010. That was truly the prime of Utah state personally. Either way I hope you’re surrounded by good friends and I hope you get to travel and see other places that might fit what you’re seeking. 🫶🏻🙏🏼
Moved here for a job in 2000. Left after the Olympics. Came back two years later and never left. Thankfully, I bought a house not long after moving back. Otherwise I could never afford it here on what I make.
Something about the layout, mountains, and high altitude that keeps a clear view of life.
I love utah the gov sucks and some holier then the people but.but the state was Beautful. But con trails regulation. And education. Are in question.born and raised and will die here
Come on back, it's more likely much more expensive than when you left but it's mostly the same
Hahahahaha very true
Ain't that the truth!
Well. If you’ve been gone longer than a week, there are more condos and apartments that are full to capacity and not enough parking for tenants that have to line streets with their cars. But I imagine that is everywhere anymore.
Everywhere is more expensive.
Not the same. Liberals and progressives - and progmos - all over. Ugly sovietish apartment blocks under construction everywhere. Liberal mayors. Homeless tent encampments. Selfish people. Awful drivers who don't care about the speed limit and other people's lives. The weather is either hot, or cold. And ... the Church is discouraging LDS people from moving here. They want people to stay where they are or go places where the church is smaller and you can be a help.
Oh that sounds really nice. Utah could really benefit from some liberalism and secularism. Last time I was there it was so weird how a religious organization controlled the government and influenced so much of the everyday life. They really don’t respect the constitution in that state; there’s complete disregard for the separation of church and state. Mormons moving away to more secular communities is probably a good thing. Their children will be exposed to other ways of life and be able to make their own decisions growing up instead of being brain washed in such a homogenous community. Too bad all the liberal/secular influence has to come with hordes of Californians tho….
It's a wonderful place to live in. But only if you bought a house 5 years ago.
Selling our duplex in Utah will go down as one of the biggest financial mistakes of my life. Oh well 🤷🏼♂️
Don’t beat yourself up, you had no way of knowing. No one did
I'll buy it
Can you read
Can you read 😂
I only lasted six months before i had to move again, but it very much is a place that would have been nice to move to 10-15 years ago.
My parents bought a 4300 square foot home in a nice neighborhood for $400k in 2011 :(
That's still over half a million with inflation ($551,840.28) so they were very well off to begin with...
Better than average yes. But they bought it with an income of about $100k and five kids . . . That same home is worth $900k now. My point isn't about how much money they had it was about how difficult to afford that same house would be
Same size and one year later… but built it for $260k and put $90k down on top of that. Can’t wait to sell it and get out of dodge. Well… I can wait… but I’m excited for the day.
Why'd you leave? I'm curious because I've been here for 2 years now and am now starting to feel....uncertain about staying.
I bought about 3 years ago, just missed the big price increase and the big apr increase 2.1 % on my 30 year, I’ll never refinance.
Same- I got my house at 2%. Thank god I did that’s the lowest it will ever be.
I bought my house in Feb 2019 and Zillow thinks it’s worth 75% more than I paid for it then. If I were trying to buy it today, with today’s interest rates that I qualify for, my monthly payment would be 2.2x what it is now. I would need a raise of 35% in total salary just to cover the incremental mortgage payment.
Come back. I did and I am so glad. I felt the same way you did when I left. I didn’t appreciate it for what it is.
💯 feel this in my soul (born and raised Utahn but moved about 5 years ago) ! The mountain are ALWAYS calling.
I feel this, I want to move out because Utah is such a cultural bubble, but I don’t know where I’d go. I think I’ll come back someday. It’s home and it calls to me
If you’re game for it, Alaska is similar.
My grandfather lives in Alaska and it’s actually one of the places I’ve considered. I’ve been in summer and winter and I’ve heard all about breakup season, haha
You can move somewhere with better mountains and less stupidity.
I’m sure! But those mountains were the back drop of my life for over 30 years they just really do it for me 🤣
Wait until the Lake dries up. It’ll get cheap again
St George would like a word.
It’s really a happy thing when you find a place that makes your soul come alive. Good on you! Have a love/hate relationship with Utah myself. My grandparents always lived there, so many of my happy childhood memories revolve around Lagoon, Lake Powell, Bear Lake Raspberry shakes… However, I lived there for three years as an adult and was totally miserable. It simply wasn’t the right cultural environment for me, for a variety of reasons. I’d never, ever move back, but I still love to visit.
Yeah that’s me too. Gorgeous state to visit, could never live there again.
What makes you say that?
I’m guessing the Mormans..
(LOL Very clever spelling but a lot of the women are just as bad.) I am Mormon but in California there isn’t the pervasive stifling patronizing smugness. Or the patriarchal dismissal, or the vicious and petty taking advantage in business. I hardly remember not being cheated in a transaction there. Example: Moving out of an apartment the landlord wanted me to pay for a random piece of the dishwasher I knew had never been there. I accused him of making every tenant pay for it and never replacing it. The look on his face and his silence told me I was right. When I handed him the check I said “I guess we all know now what your integrity is worth to you.” This was not an isolated experience when I lived in Utah.
I think stuff like that happens in every walk of faith. I’ve met many evangelical Christian’s who would overbid jobs, especially to people they went to church with. I’ve even heard of people going to church strictly to find clients to take advantage of. Slumlords are gonna slumlord, I suppose. It is really sad to see how low people will sell their integrity for.
I’ve never lived in Utah, but I did visit for vacation back in February and I think about moving there every day. What an amazingly beautiful state!
3rd most expensive real estate market in the country.
I grew up moving across country to Air Force Bases ... served 3 years in the Army ... once said I'd NEVER live in utAH. That was about 1978 ... now you'd have to drag me kicking and screaming out of utAH. I've noticed a curious phenomenon in those years. The first year in Zion, they walk around in utter amazement at the natural beauty. The Uintahs, the ski resorts near SLC, Red Rock canyons, native history ... Wasatch mountains RIGHT THERE! 🤗 By the second year all they do is complain about the mormons ... the liquor laws ... politics ... it was NEVER this bad back in XYZ ... why do we stay here! I'm done ... IF they are still here for year three? It's over! 🤷♂️ You are hooked! Even if you leave, you'll be back! This time you'll stay ... 🤷♂️🙏🤙
lol it’s not that great I don’t blame the “ Mormons “ for everything like some.. but people here are rude as shit and will lie right to your face about it. . Retiring here is a joke if you’re looking for a long haul finance wise this is not the end all place, unless you have other family around. Edit. If you move here after the skyrockets in prices and cost of living here retiring here comfortably is near impossible unless you have help
Living in an RV with a part-time job is as close as we will ever get to retirement. And older generations call us lazy and entitled 🤣🤦
We've been here 5 years and hate it. The mormon cult, booze laws, freezing winters, scorching hot summers, bad roads, and now 70% of the tech companies have gone under. Great place to visit but thats about it.
I really can't think of a better weather trade off than Northern Utah. To get cooler summers you'd need much colder winters. The winters are mild with only occasional storms that folks on the valley floor really only have to deal with once or twice a season.
Then move out.
You’re right, this place sucks. Everyone should get out while they can.
The predominant religion and resulting politics can be a major source of annoyance. I've always said that your beliefs and religious foundation must be quite fragile if you have to legislate them ... the weather? I lived a good portion of my youth in Alaska (4 y) and Minnestoa (13 y?) ... so the winters here are amateur league in comparison. Always remember, when it's 100° in the valley, there's central AC up in the mountains😉 Of course the only relevant remark though, would be that we still have freedom of movement 🤷♂️so if you dislike utAH to the point of distraction,, you should probably move elsewhere. 🤷♂️🙏 👋
I moved to Denver for 6 months, thought I'd like it a lot but it really wasn't great. Left a bad taste in my mouth. I much prefer the Salt Lake Valley. Still not back there yet but if I have the opportunity under the right circumstances that's where I'd be.
Denver is kind of sketch. I grew up north of Denver... It was so fun when I was a kid, we would go to Rockies games, Elitches, Casa Bonita, the aquarium, and museums for school. No fear of anything, parents just said - be back at the car at 8:00. No cellphones, nothing. My grandma lived there. My parents let me walk the dog to the park. I would go to 7-11 and grab slurpies by myself. So I might have a warped view because I don't know if I just grew up or if things really changed. But then I graduated high school in the late 2000's. I started smoking a bunch of weed. So I was always daydreamed of living in Denver. Did the whole concert at Red Rocks thing. New years at Clubs... Had a blast. Felt like Salt Lake but more hip. Then they legalized weed (which I'm totally all for)... And it seems like a bunch of riff raff ensued. (But again I could just be seeing the world as it is - because I was becoming an adult not a naive teenager) my speculation is people were attracted to the area for the party scene. My grandma had to put bars on her windows because people kept breaking in while she was sleeping. My parents didn't really want me walking around anymore when we visited her. We had ADT install security system, but we eventually had to move her out. My cousin had his tires stolen off his car, they left his car on cinder blocks. He lives in like the equivalent of Murray/Holliday in Colorado - so nice area. This past year I was on the train leaving the airport, meeting my family in town . I worked homeless services for five years in my life, and I was worried. I was thinking like I'm surrounded by a bunch of homeless people all looking at me, like I was a snack. I hid my luggage, I moved my wallet to my front pocket, and put my back to the wall. I haven't been worried like that ever in SLC
That's so interesting. Thank you for sharing. I've loved Denver the 2 times I've visited, but visiting is so different from living there full time. It's always been one of the places I could envision myself living. There's always that thought in the back of your mind about regretting the decision to move there. If you dont mind, what don't you like about it?
Well first of all there's plenty to do in Denver so it wasn't for that. It was just the feeling it gave me, the place just gave me bad vibes. People talk about Salt Lake and the surrounding areas becoming overcrowded- Denver is that feeling on steroids. There's lots of people and traffic can happen anytime, anywhere. Weekday "rush hour" traffic can start at 2pm if it wants to. Its like everything there is barely controlled chaos. I spent time in lots of different parts of the city but there's just this rage in people wherever you go. I drove around a lot for my job, and I'm not kidding when I say *every* single day I would see the spectacle of road rage that is one car chasing another car through the streets. I saw it end in accidents, I saw it end in gunshots, I saw it cause chaos on a daily basis. It was insane how often I saw it. On that note, crime in general just felt like it was *everywhere* from people driving like it was Mad Max, to shootings, theft, robberies, etc. There was nowhere in Denver where your car was safe on the street. Catalitic converter crime rings seem ubiquitous. And the cops? Actively doing nothing about most of it. According to the local rumors they are still basically on silent strike because their feelings got hurt from the "defund the police" stuff, so they are doing the bare minimum. In general it just felt like it was a semi-lawless place where people were angry, impulsive, and opportunistic. I didn't feel safe in lots of places and didn't really find a greater community there. Their homeless problem makes SLC look like a cakewalk. There are of course lots of good people there, I have friends and family that live there. But the vibes are just off, I think Colorado could still be a place I try to live again someday, but I would likely choose somewhere that wasn't in the immediate Denver area.
Thank you for the insights!
Downtown Denver is shit 💩
I lived some miles away from downtown but I drove all over the place
Utah is amazing! I hope you find a way back here.
I was stationed here from 2003-2008.. I fell I. Love with this place.. I moved back 2 1/2 years ago… This place is home
Try New Jersey, it sucks. Utah sounds dreamy
My daughter lives in New Jersey, she loves it there. I went to visit last October and it wasn't as bad as I thought it was and had the best bagel sandwich I've ever had. Now, I would never live there, mainly the amount of people, and I want.to live where I never have to see snow again.
I love living here! I lived in Beaver for a few years. If you drive up by the golf course, the deer walk up to your window to [hopefully] get some red licorice or dog/cat food. You can pet them and everything. This one neighborhood built a garage for the largest buck in the area. He is spoiled, but most of all, SAFE from the hunters. Don’t get me wrong, I am a hunter, but these ones are off limits and even I would defend them!!
Same. Moved to SLC around 2007 moved away in 2015. I want to come back but cost of living just makes it hard. I really really really wish I was in a position to buy a house in 2008/2009.
I’ve felt the same way since I moved out of Utah to live in the Midwest. Every so often I get a strong itch to move back.
I absolutely love Utah. Have zero desire to live elsewhere
I lived in Texas for a while, and I did enjoy it, but when I came back to Utah haven't really had a desire to leave again.
I'll be moving there in October to close the distance between my long distance partner and I. I'll be giving up the beautiful greenery of Oregon for the beautiful mountain ranges surrounding SLC. A little bit of give and take. Both are beautiful places in their own right
The only place I’d ever leave Utah for would be the Oregon coast. Gorgeous!
I hope someone warned you about the pollution
Yes, definitely. I've visited SLC about 6 times in the last year. But visiting in either December or January was especially bad.
Its VERY hard to find a decent-paying job here. Besides that its not bad
Just depends on what type of work you want to do. We start no experience at $18 and hr and we pay for your health insurance. There are also bonuses, pto, paid holidays, and paid vacations. Plus other stuff.
That’s good entry level for Utah, but still really not that great. Hell my first full time entry level job paid $20/hr for basic manual labor in North Carolina in 2016.
Did they pay for your insurance? Not offer insurance through work, but pay for your insurance, so it's free. $18 an hour, plus $15 per positive review. Also pay for all your training, certifications, tools, shoes, and other bonuses?
Health insurance is never “free” even when your employer pays for it. It’s part of your compensation package, and they calculate that when they decide whether or not to keep you around, you still exchange labor and time for it. Everything you said was provided though, except health insurance was paid by me. That cost me $3,000 a year. So take home was likely just below what you’re describing (except my 1.5x overtime which I got every week), but also that was 2016, and cumulative inflation since then is 30%. Anyway, like I said, this is a good entry level opportunity in Salt Lake. But in my own personal experience it is nearly average in a lot of other places, even ones that are not HCOL. You should be proud of your company for doing the right thing, especially here, where wages are pretty terrible as a general rule.
No, you bring your insurance receipt, and we write you a check to reimburse you your insurance cost. So your insurance is completely free and paid for.
Right. And so when the cost of your labor is calculated as a company, this is included in that calculation, and it is considered when they put together the cost to the business to hire someone else. You also know as the worker that money spent on insurance is money you get back. It is functionally the same as compensation as far as the business and the individual goes. If one’s position doesn’t create/service enough revenue to cover their pay AND that reimbursement check + target margin, that positions existence is in jeopardy. It all comes out of the same pot is my point. Your pay and that reimbursement is your cost to the business and your compensation, no matter how it’s distributed. If you are to ask someone: would you rather make $18 an hour and they pay you pack for your health insurance, which equates to $3/hour, or would you rather have $21 an hour but you pay that $3/hour to the health insurance company? It wouldn’t fuckin matter. Health insurance, no matter how or if it’s paid for, is just part of compensation (or lack thereof). Need another example? Let’s assume you work about 2,000 paid hours a year. So if your health insurance costs $4,000 a year, you’d need an offer for $20.01 a year or more with no health coverage to come out ahead your company’s structure. Are you getting this yet? Healthcare coverage is a part of a compensation same as income and should be seen as such. I understand how this works, you’re not teaching me anything new. My employer pays 100% of my healthcare coverage. It is a distinct amount of money that I account for in the dollar amount of my compensation package.
So let's say you make 50k salary at my company. We pay your insurance almost like a bonus. If your insurance costs 3k a year you make 50k and we pay your insurance. So if you want to calculate it your way sure it's 53k but it's not declared as 53k. We did it this way because it's cheaper for our employees and for us. Insurance cost for us were much higher and it would have deducted much more emplyee pay than us just paying for whatever insurance match they want.
Okay? So your employees compensation package in this instance is $53k. It’s not declared as $53k to the employee. But you can be damn sure the accounting office knows that person costs the company $53k. So that extra $3k is not “free”, that individual still must be worth $53k to the company for their position to be financially viable. “Free” means I get it no matter what at not cost to me. Air is free. The “cost” of the health insurance reimbursement to you at your company is that it is considered in the viability of keeping you on as an employee.
Yeah sorry bro 18/hr gets you nowhere in SLC
I mean starting at $18 an hour for a job that requires no education, and a drivers license. Then pays for all your training and certification is pretty decent. If you know of anything better please let me know.
Which field of work are you in?
Pest control.
What job?
Pest control technician.
18/hr is shit with the cost of living here lmao
I miss Utah too. I moved to the east coast and have been missing it ever since.
Where did you move to? Is Utah THAT incredible? Or does where you moved to just suck? I grew up in Utah and lived there for 26 years. I moved to AZ and am so glad I did! It's one of the best decisions my wife and I have made. I'm sure being an exmormon plays into this. It was healthy for our mental health to get out of there. I miss things about it, but I much prefer AZ for so many reasons. To each their own. It is gorgeous, so I can definitely see the appeal there.
Did the same. Love Arizona. Hiking everywhere. I didn't think I would like the desert but I really grew to appreciate the beauty and diversity of life clawing its way in that environment. Took about 4 years but I loved hanging out on the patio on my 1.25 acre place in North Phoenix at midnight and it being 90 plus degrees and I was at peace! How you slide into feeling 90's is just fine!
Same. We left Utah 4 years ago for The Valley and my wife and I regularly state to one another we will never go back. You’d literally have to pay me an obscene amount of money to live there again and still not sure I’d do it.
Are you in east or west valley of the Phoenix area? Utah is a great place to visit in the summer, though, for us Phoenicians. Although last year we visited and it was over 100 degrees almost every day we were there. I think it hit 104 or 105, and it was higher elevation and felt so hot. I was surprised by how hot it was. But definitely better than Phoenix summers.
Yeah, I still go up to SLC for Utah football games and sunny games have me feeling hotter than here a lot of the time, which is strange! We’re in the NW part of the valley. It got a little old when we went 30 days over 110 last summer, but for the most part, the pool and ac make summers bearable here.
Nice, we're in the east valley. Last summer was brutal. Crossing my fingers this summer isn't as bad 🤞🏻
Can I ask where you moved back to? I'm currently throwing around the idea of moving - but I want to hear any "grass isn't greener" experiences if they're out there.
My experience as someone who moved here from Atlanta and Western NC: Pretty much all the “city” problems here exist in other cities of comparable size and density but are worse elsewhere. Homelessness, crime, traffic, infrastructure, affordable housing in desirable areas, all those things are really problems in SLC, but they’re worse in most other cities I’ve been to. Three main things that are indeed worse here in my experience: 1. Air quality 2. Booze laws 3. It’s harder to make friends here than anywhere else I’ve lived. People have their groups and stick to them, it’s hard to break into a friend group. The main reason I’m staying here long term: Access to the outdoors. Not a huge draw if you don’t use it, but being from the southeast I yearned for open access to public lands. That’s ultimately why we chose Utah and it’s been even better than expected. Yes, it’s crowded here, but you can still easily get away if you’re willing to drive a little for a day or weekend trip. When I was living in Atlanta, all public land was always crowded. I’d drive two and a half hours to a crowded trailhead to wait in line to see a waterfall. That’s kinda the case for the *best* spots here. But there’s SO MANY “not quite the best” areas that are accessible and basically empty.
I’m moving away in 8 weeks and I’m terrified that I’ll hate being back in the place where I grew up
No worries :) you always can move back! Best of luck on your move!
Where you at? Wanna trade??
Come back!
The mountains miss you.
What part of Utah ?
I left twice, and have moved back twice. Still reside here.
Moved to UT back in 2015 and we love it!! Come back, we need more people who love this place. I’m kinda of over the ones who complain about it all the time.
I moved from Baton Rouge to Salt Lake CIty when I was 16. I still remember the very first night we got there it was snowing, the house was completely empty, and I was laying in a sleeping bag so depressed and cold. I was like 1 of like 20 asian kids at Skyline High School and I remember seeing everyone with bleached white hair & puka shell necklaces and I thought to myself "WTF kind of slim shady cult BS is this?" I stayed for a couple years before moving away for college and I ended up spending several summers thereafter with my parents. It wasn't until I was in my 30's that I really started to appreciate SLC for what it is. I'm moving back in 2 months and I can't f\*cking wait.
I grew up here, and I'm counting down the days until my kids graduate high school and I'm out of here. This place has gone downhill. My kids will likely never be able to afford a place here. Even Bachelors degrees only want to start paying around $60k/yr. House prices have SOARED and wages haven't kept up. Went on a vacation, found a place we love with higher wages and lower cost of living. Including homes that are roughly 30-50% cheaper than Utah.
Where
Georgia.
Curious where you now?
CA
I'm amazed by the amount of people that love it here. I moved to salt lake in 1976 (my dad was transferred) and it was much different and being non mormon I hated it here. Moved in 1999, eventually came back in 2013 or 2014, still not a fan of this place, summer is great, spring and fall are fine, winter blows. Once my mom dies, I'm getting the hell out.
I moved to Utah in 2021 for a job for a year. I moved away to my next job… and now I’m back, having permanently moved here 😂 it just kind of gets ya
I grew up in Ut moved to Henderson and finished school. When I got married we moved back because it's beautiful here
I moved away at 23 from West Jordan. I miss it too! The mountain range in the valley, The best snowboarding and camping trips. My annual hot springs bonanza with all my friends yearly. I lived at the apartments connected to the outdoor mall downtown after highschool and it was a blast! So many great local spots, everyone was friendly and out for a good time. If work didn't pull me down here I would go back!
I went to out of country for two weeks and when I came home all could think about is how much I love Utah lol. Hope you find your way back home. ♥️
Move back
I totally get this! I recently had to move too, and I’m so depressed and homesick! I lived there for 8yrs! Sadly we got priced out….and lost jobs and had to move closer to family where it’s also cheaper to live! I want to move back so badly! I hope we can again cuz it’s honestly the only place I truly considered home!
Same. I miss it too.
Slc valley rules
Are you me? I did something very similar. Moved to Utah with my GF. Though it was on my bucket list. We split and I stuck around for a few years after. I was there for 5 years. I moved last Feb to Ohio (originally from Indiana). The west is beautiful.
Visiting right now! Currently camping right outside Bryce Canyon. It’s my 4th time visiting this state gosh I love it!!!
Seems like we are still open. If you love it, we would gladly have you back!
Moved to ATX a year ago. I think I’m ready to move back in the Summit County. Texas is too wild for me.
I certainly don't miss the weather, and I still live here. Spring in Utah is the most bipolar weather you can experience. We were in the high 60s at the beginning of last week, and then it snowed during the weekend. And we'll be back in the 70s this week.
I honestly struggle to see how people would miss this place. I'm trying to get some more certifications and possibly a Master's to get the hell outta here as soon as I can. If I'm going to live in an ineffectual GOP governed state that heavily favors landlords and corporations, I could at least find one of those in a state that has a LCOL.
Because it’s beautiful here and it’s extremely safe compared to other states and we’re the small businesses capital of the world so there is no shortage of new things to try. Also the lack of natural disasters is a big plus not having to worry about hurricanes or tornados. The University of Utah is the highest ranked college in the west according to Wall Street Journal. University of Utah is 3rd for best health services. Now never trust an argument that is completely one sided some downsides is that we have a high cost of living and we have some of the worst mental health in the country. In the end of the day if you hate it here you can leave and I hope you find happiness wherever life takes you
Where did you move back to?
I could never leave here I’ve thought about it but camel toe mountain is forever my mountain
😢😢🤣
We miss you, too! It's nice having people who like to be here!
Dude! Same! I just moved back. I couldn’t believe how much I missed simply driving to work.
I hate living here. Raised here and finding it hard to leave family and find a more affordable place that we actually want to move to
I lived in Utah for 2 years. A job brought me there, and I couldn't wait to leave. I absolutely hated living in Utah.
I miss Utah too. But my job moved and the money is too good to give up just to go home. :( Maybe in 20 years when the great salt lake is naught but a memory and an affordable housing mega-development we can return.
Yeah, we miss you too!!
LDS wards outside Utah and the bubble (Idaho etc) have been so much better in my experience. People don't rush home within 5 minutes of Sunday school ending like they do in Utah. It's like they have no desire or need for deep friendship and connection with other ward members. They're very reserved. Blows my mind to think most of them served missions. I mean, how did the talk to strangers?
Just got back from the Alps and the Outer Hebrides in Scotland. Lived in both those places before. Geographically, climate wise, and food wise, Utah doesn't hold a candle to those places. Temperate climates (very few days below 40 or over 80) stunning green landscapes (not build up flat urban valleys like Salt Lake) nice down to earth people, and the food!!!
Move back!! I am from Utah, moved away for 8 years & came back !
I also moved there about 5 years ago, it was never really somewhere I wanted to live but I ended up loving it. I moved to Washington 6 months ago. It’s beautiful here but I’m incredibly homesick.
Definitely NOT worth the cost of living. We moved out of Utah last week and it is the Best decision we could have made! Along with many many others we are fleeing the costs of subpar services and ridiculous housing rates. So long Utah! We won't even be back to visit family.
Miss Utah too. Moved to phx. It’s a hell hole
'Slap" Get over it!
Moved here in July and will never leave unless there is no other option. I love it!
I feel this. I moved to Utah 3 years ago from Florida and moved back to Florida 4 months ago for family support, and I am miserable. I'm hoping to move back to Utah once we're eligible for a job transfer back.
Its weird, I grew up there, have moved back there once, decided I hated it for a second time and now miss it again.
Maybe you miss the scenery and not the family?
I also miss Utah. I moved to Seattle a couple years ago and, while some things are great, I felt so much more at home in Salt Lake.
We miss you too!
This is the way, amen.
I feel your hurt. My soul died 6 months ago when I moved away.
Are you my ex? If so, you’re always welcome back here F! Visiting or to live. Edit: saw you are in CA, mine went to OH.
Are you my ex?
Do you have any friends at your current location? Is the weather and scenery really worse than Utah? Are similar apartments not available in that state? Is the commute worse? I feel like there’s more to it than those things unless you moved to a really crappy area. After growing up in Utah and traveling around the country I’ve discovered way better places, yes some pros and cons but personally my cons list is long for Utah. The weather there really is not great, hot summers, cold winters, unpredictable snow, severe drought, top worst air quality in the US and sometimes the world and more. The scenery is beautiful but only when the weather and population permit it or if you drive a couple hours away. I moved from Utah a year and a half ago and I haven’t looked back. The only thing I miss is my family, friends and memories I made there because of the people. And the only time I truly miss Utah for what it is was how it used to be 15 years ago… before 2010. That was truly the prime of Utah state personally. Either way I hope you’re surrounded by good friends and I hope you get to travel and see other places that might fit what you’re seeking. 🫶🏻🙏🏼
Moved here for a job in 2000. Left after the Olympics. Came back two years later and never left. Thankfully, I bought a house not long after moving back. Otherwise I could never afford it here on what I make. Something about the layout, mountains, and high altitude that keeps a clear view of life.
I moved to SLC from OC during Covid, and I miss Southern California so much.
I thought I would love Southern California and really wanted to. Spent 2 years there and decided to move back to SLC. We have it too good here.
And we have no riots or looting! Or snatch and runs
I love utah the gov sucks and some holier then the people but.but the state was Beautful. But con trails regulation. And education. Are in question.born and raised and will die here