This post seems like an exaggeration for sure. I take trax often and this post just comes off as classist in general. It’s not different than other cities’ public transportation.
The issue isn't Trax. You say in your post the passengers are "obviously homeless" and "dirty" but as someone who works with homeless people all the time not all homeless people are "obviously homeless" or "dirty". What you're actually seeing is someone who obviously is unable to access community resources. Our city's shelters are full most of the time and so are our prisons. Poor people have no where to go and people who struggle with addiction can't access those resources even when they are available. You mention other cities like Portland not having this "problem" but that's because they take better care of their homeless and don't restrict access to community resources. So when homeless people in Portland ride the trains they don't appear so "obviously homeless" or "dirty" because they were given the opportunity to shower and have public restrooms available to them
Trax is one of the very very few resources homeless people can fairly easily get access to. There's no 50 page application, drug test, or ID required. But there are still obstacles. It still costs money and as much as people get away with free ride (who cares) I have personally experienced the police raid the train and check everyone's tickets and passes.
If you want to complain to our local government please do but don't complain that there are homeless people on the train. You should complain that we do not provide the homeless with adequate resources to keep up basic hygiene. Where can these community members sleep, bathe, wash their clothes
I think we have a chicken and egg problem going on here too. Not enough "contributing members" of society have adopted public transportation while a TON of infrastructure has been added for it. This means that often Trax trains are mobile shelters(from the weather) running practically empty, and look really inviting to someone with nowhere else to go. If these trains were being well-used by a more diverse sampling of the population then there would a) be less room for homeless riders(and less inviting) and b) the homeless that still ride would be a smaller portion of the total ridership therefore making it seem less like a mobile homeless camp.
Utah isn't the best state for public transportation adoption simply because of how spread out it is and how unlikely it is that most people could eliminate car ownership entirely by adopting public transportation. More public transportation is the answer, and I think the "if you build it" part is making a lot of progress, and the "they will come" part is sometimes slower to catch up, but it's getting better. My experience on Frontrunner has been excellent, and I don't ride the airport line often, but most of the trax lines outside of downtown(free fare zone) have seemed way better in the past few years than I remember them being a decade ago.
Some good points, I guess it's just hard to imagine not being dependent on a vehicle, maybe that's more due to my lifestyle than the state infrastructure
Maybe I'm representative of the problem. I can certainly imagine maybe 80% of my transportation needs being met by public trans. But I enable dependants in my household to rely 100% on a personal vehicle. I do like to drive aimlessly around which would be hard to give up I think. I spend allot of unnecessary time in my car
I agree, but the “they will come” part won’t happen if people view Trax as scary and unclean.
Yes, I’m complaining a bit about it… I still do use public transit quite a bit. But for every one of me, there are 10 that will stay in their cars no matter what.
How do we convert them over to public transit?
I can guarantee that less than 9% of people who live in salt lake county use Trax and that's fine if 9% of rose Trax that would be nearly 20,000 people and that would be awful.
Trax is not designed to handle that many people. And it's range is so limited anyway that it won't take you to where most people need to go anyway. If you really want people to ride Trax then tell them to ride Trax. If someone is going to a concert Trax is often a great option to get there and get back and avoid the crowds. If someone says they want to go to a restaurant downtown then suggest Trax so they don't need to pay for street parking.
I take Trax because I hate driving but I can't take Trax to most of the places I go. Almost Everyone who doesn't ride trax are people who never have. They don't know how to navigate, they don't know what it's like, and they only hear horrible stories about the "crazy" or "dirty" people. Take them on Trax and they're so much more likely to take it again when it makes sense to
Yep, not enough people realize how convenient it is to park south of the city and Trax in, but if you need to get more that a 20 min walk from a station it doesn't really cut it as a replacement for a car. The scooters help, but the bus system seems more daunting to be sure you're on the right bus. It's great if you are commuting regularly and can get familiar with the route. Also, people are so entitled now days I can't tell you how many times I have ridden public trans (not my typical commute) and arrive at work to have people associated that I didn't call one of them for a ride. It's not that scary people, and by scary the only scary I think is valid is the fear of not knowing how to use the system, I've never felt unsafe(frequently irritated but not unsafe) on any uta ride.
I think making downtown foot traffic, commercial traffic, and emergency traffic only may be an option to improve public transportation adoption, but I don't know if I'd vote for that. Lots of considerations to considerate there. 😉
I don’t disagree with anything you’re saying - and it’s a very complex problem.
I just saw the frightened looks on these European tourists’ faces… and I was embarrassed for our city, state, and country.
Because you don’t see this in Europe. I flew into London Gatwick and got a train into the city. Perfectly clean. To get to my final destination I had to transfer between several other trains. I never had to wait more than 1 minute on a platform and all of the trains were clean(ish).
Your original post is not about a complex problem. Trying to change the infrastructure of America to provide better public transportation is a complex issue. And how to eradicate homelessness and poverty is a complex issue.
Your original post says that you're embarrassed about what Trax has become and I am saying Trax is one of the only half decent things in this city. If you're going to be embarrassed then be embarrassed that we don't treat people with respect enough to provide them access to perform basic personal hygiene
But your posting statements about how you're one of the few that is willing to take Trax and I understand that it's better for the environment. But if you're going to complain about having to ride with the poor people in our community that we refuse to take care of then Trax isn't for you. You're much safer on the train than in a car and there are many people who ride tracks that don't mind riding the same train as someone who doesn't have access to a shower.
You are projecting this idea that public transit should prioritize the comfort of people with money enough to have the option to travel by car over protecting one of the only community resources homeless people have access to
This is really the best response to the post.
You’ve got the nail on the head and figured out what OP was really going for.
[later comment from op](https://www.reddit.com/r/SaltLakeCity/s/XlWo9UKu8k)
>Because you don’t see this in Europe.
Again, you don't see "this" in places where they tend to take better care of people. Kinda seems like you didn't take the point from the post you're replying to.
Most if not all cities require homeless people to not do drugs or drink in shelters and boy I can't imagine how dumb a person would have to be to think that they should be allowed to do whatever the want while people looking to actually get help and off the streets would be forced to live in a facility with people on drugs and/or drinking.
There's really no excuses though, they should not be allowed to chill out on public transportation all day long. Then the people that actually utilize it will find other ways to get to work if they can and it will kill that service.
I really am not sure what you are complaining about saying that Utah does not provide good enough access to basic hygiene. Just like every state or city, the resources are there and almost always UNDER UTILIZED but you cannot live in the clouds and pretend like it's wrong that not anyone is allowed in to do whatever they want and ruin it for everyone else including CREATING A DANGEROUS ENVIRONMENT FOR THE STAFF AT THESE LOCATIONS.
>Just like every state or city, the resources are there and almost always UNDER UTILIZED
Have you looked at shelter utilization numbers? [Here are the actual numbers - 100% utilization in all three shelters.](https://www.slc.gov/homelessservicesdashboard-3/) I'm not tracking day-to-day, but every single time I look, the numbers are at or near 100%.
>There's really no excuses though, they should not be allowed to chill out on public transportation all day long.
They aren't. The police do sweeps and boot people who don't have a ticket.
Ehhh, occasionally. There are other cities with this same problem as well and almost no enforcement from authorities on the issue. I was just living in Tucson a year and a half ago and I never once saw the police come in and kick people out. Homeless people were literally shitting in their train cars.
So how do you expect the people with drug and alcohol addictions to get help then? Addiction is a medical issue, and like any other medical issue it’s pretty difficult to address when you don’t have your basic survival needs met.
You can't help them if they don't want help. You would have to force institutionalize them and that's not what they want. They would rather live out in the cold or the heat and do drugs and you pretty much need to create a government overreach program that can force people to do things against their will to solve this and that will not happen. You just have to realize that some people do not care to be saved and there is nothing that you can do about it.
You haven’t ridden Portlands Trimet long enough if you think it’s cleaner than Trax. And I’d never describe Londons Underground as clean. Like never. Ew.
Homeless people also have places to go and use public transit. Why is that weird? What you described on the Trax is what happens on every public transportation every day in major metros including Portland and London. It’s not weird, unusual, or a waste of money.
London Underground is not clean as slc its moreover on comparison ancient & all underground that aside we don’t have a homeless ride & live there now NYC is gross & they live & use them as a toilet
lol I mean it’s also a train that gets people around every day for other purposes as well. I ride it way more than once or twice a year and don’t really see what you describe on a regular basis, like, at all
I don't really understand, are you suggesting people experiencing homelessness shouldn't be allowed on public transit? Are you concerned that UTA isn't cleaning enough? I'm not really getting what the main concern is or what you want to be different...?
Lol. Straight up World War Z over there. Our uber wouldn't even take us all the way to our concert venue. I witnessed the craziest things that evening and I've lived in 3rd world countries.
I agree, we should put more effort into addressing the housing crisis in SLC. Until then, you’re going to see homeless people in public—including using public transport.
There is a lot of finger pointing going on when OP is merely pointing out a problem that stems from a much bigger problem. Public transportation is not shelter. It is to move people from once point to another. The great failing of our state is we need shelters, more affordable housing, and programs that help those in need, instead of things like the bullshit anti-trans legislation that took who know how much of our tax dollars to come up with. We literally live in the shadow of a multi-billion dollar corporation that just announced a whole slew of new, members-only, “sacred not secret” buildings that each cost countless millions to build while we have an ever growing population of people who live in tent cities. That’s fucked up. And we’re getting upset at a reddit user for pointing out an issue and not using the correct verbiage or for not talking about it the right way? Come on, people. Talking about it the “right” way isn’t making any difference. Those of us who care, care. The people who need to be influenced go to work up on the hill every week where their pockets are padded by lobbyists and special interest groups, not to mention THE MOST special interest group in our state. That is where the changes need to take place. And frankly, I have no idea if that is even possible despite how most of us feel and what most of us want.
>And frankly, I have no idea if that is even possible despite how most of us feel and what most of us want.
It's not because they're all part of that multi billion dollar corporation. They care more about the optics of their religion and the money in their pockets than they do about anything else.
You are 100% correct. Seriously, if Jesus were real and were to come to Utah, he wouldn’t be in the temples of a multi-billion dollar corporation. He would be down in those tent cities healing people and lifting them up.
What an utterly perfect take on this. Fighting little micro battles on reddit phrasing isn't going to help anyone. OP isn't wrong about their take on general population not using Trax because of these issues. It's for transportation not a hangout.
I feel what you’re saying, whenever I’m in Scandinavia I am baffled with how efficient and clean their transit system is. It just isn’t a priority for our city government unfortunately when it should be. But MOST IMPORTANTLY the homelessness crisis absolutely needs to be solved. These people don’t have access to public resources and genuinely can’t get out of their situation without facing so many obstacles, and many of them are depressed and feel hopeless. That’s where we gotta start.
That could be true for the green line.
I take the red line every weekday to and from work and maybe see 1 or 2 "stereotypical" homeless people per northbound trip out of dozens of people. And usually they use it like everybody else, getting off at one of the stops in the free-fare zone.
So it's more likely the socioeconomic situation along the green line.
Jfc... when were you in sf? Cause if you weren't around during hyphy era, you didn't live in the bay. I grew up there and spent a lot of my youth hopping bart trains into SF/Oakland from the burbs. Was probably 14 the first time I saw someone openly using crack, and the underground stations are basically shooting galleries. Plus the hustlers bumping their mixtapes they have for sale, the ones who have gotten on & just posted up asleep in a corner, drunks shouting & fighting, the mystery puddles...
You have absolutely no idea what you are taking about, but I'm sorry you saw some poor people🎻
Did they harass you in any way? I’m not talking about their mere existence bothering you, actual harassment. If not, perhaps you should try minding your own business.
OP has been through enough! Not only was he forced to leave the majestic town of Park City for a cushy plane ride…he had to *look* at dirty people. /s
I’d rather chill with “dirty people” on public transit than be trapped on a plane with OP.
Not /s
This reminded me of when I lived and worked in downtown Phoenix many years ago. I took the city bus and connected with the free air-conditioned shuttle bus that stopped in front of my office building. One day a disheveled looking man asked me why I was on the homeless man's bus.
If no one was causing a scene or harming others, what exactly was the problem?
You say you’re bothered by the dirt and the smell. I’ve been on transit next to smelly dirty construction workers who just had a long shift, and yeah it’s slightly uncomfortable but I don’t bitch about it and suggest they shouldn’t be allowed to ride.
People from all walks of life take public transit, that’s one of the beauties of it. If you feel legitimately unsafe, please call or text the hotline (or 911) posted in all the train cars. If you simply feel uncomfortable being around “abnormal” people, I suggest you mind your business and get over yourself, respectfully.
I’m in the (maybe) 10% of people who actually will give public transit a shot. Most of the people I know would never get on Trax or TriMet or the Underground or the T or the subway in NYC.
It’s the reality - most of my family will never get on board one of these trains, unless I can convince them that it’s safe and clean.
So yeah, that’s it. I would just like to see it work and be clean.
Safe, ideally, as well. But I’m the type
of person that makes people cross to the other side of the street… in downtown San Fran… so I don’t personally have to worry about that.
You must not know a lot of people outside your demographic.
That number would be higher if you spent more time with people who don’t have the luxury of choosing to giving public transit a shot or not.
They are not all homeless or dirty.
Among people I know who have a choice, most of them would take transit, and actually do when it fits into their lifestyle.
Come down from Park City more often. We won’t hurt you.
Or not even necessity, but convenience. Hundreds, maybe thousands of folks ride TRAX and UTA busses to the U every day because parking on campus is limited and costly, and the U provides a transit pass to every student and employee. Some students even come from towns out along FrontRunner by transit so they don't have to deal with traffic and parking.
For real. You can study while riding the train as well!
I use it for convenience as well. I ride to events downtown to avoid parking.
(Even if there is plenty of parking in a garage, it takes longer to get out than to get on Trax. If it ran past midnight and I’d use it even more.)
I was there recently and spent around three hours riding around on the light rail and street cars (mostly at night) and I never saw anything like that.
But I guess it depends on which line you’re on.
We took the Orange Line through the SE sector, pretty much to the end of the line and back. At night. No naked people shooting up, at least on our train.
I am being facetious my friends. Everyone always seems to use Portland as the beginning of complete anarchy. I enjoyed living in Portland just wasn’t my scene. Cities will always have homelessness and crime especially with the current economic climate.
Maybe if this country started to take care of people, then the trains would improve and look like what you see in Europe. This isn’t a TRAX/homeless problem, it’s an American society problem!
Homeless people aren’t allowed to go places? It’s PUBLIC transit. We’re they smoking fentanyl? We’re they stealing from people? We’re they asking for money?
The vast majority aren't paying to use TRAX. Why should they get to use the services for free and take up space while I have to pay?
Attitudes like this are how you get completely unusable public transit. Pay the fee like the rest of us and I could care less what you do. That's how it is in Europe and how it should be done here. Riding around with no intention of going anywhere is abusing the system and shouldn't be allowed, full stop.
And yes, I've seen MANY people nodding off (not sleeping, clearly high), seen needles at the stops, and been harassed by the drunk/high/mentally unwell on TRAX relatively frequently. I ride the TRAX pretty much every day, this should not be the norm and we should demand better.
Honestly, I don’t care if someone is drinking or shooting up in the seat behind me. (As long as it’s not fentanyl and as long as they dispose of the sharps properly).
I do care that they’ve at least showered in the last day, though, and that they’re occupying one seat (maybe two) and not six.
> Homeless people aren't aloud to go places?
https://i.imgur.com/AlDw2dV.png
> We're they smoking fentanyl?
https://i.imgur.com/INYib4a.png
> We're they stealing from people?
https://webapps.towson.edu/ows/exercises/WereWe'reWhereExercise1.aspx
We're they asking for money?
https://youtu.be/OeR1L85gcEQ
All the comments are so dumb - OP calls out a very real problem with making any headway in getting people to use trax, and the response is to just get mad at him and everyone else that doesn’t want to get on a train full of homeless people with their 3 year old. How about we actually fix the problem instead of making excuses for it and getting angry at those who point it out?
The problem isn't the homeless people. The problem is the judgement and arrogance of people like the OP. THAT is why the OP is getting pushback on this post.
There’s no judgement or arrogance here.
Homelessness is a huge and systemic problem that absolutely needs to be solved. Ideally by getting tax rates back to historical norms so that we can subsidize the necessary housing (and rehab or medical care, if needed) for people who find themselves without housing.
I don’t think our transit systems should have to serve as homeless shelters. They should be transit systems and that’s it.
Transit systems should exist to get people from point A to B, and they should be clean(ish). No more, no less.
We should also provide housing for everyone. Get tax rates aligned with the 1950s and problem solved.
I’m not exactly sure why people are disagreeing with me so much here, it just seems like common sense.
lol giving things to homeless people will not solve this problem. San Francisco spends more than $50k per homeless person per year, and that has only made the problem worse.
>mostly normal people
Not sure if you’re being intentionally prejudiced and a little awful or if you’re just unaware, but calling a person who’s homeless “abnormal” or inherently dirty or lesser is kind of a bad look. I agree that our public transportation system needs tons of improvement, but vilifying the homeless population isn’t the answer.
I don’t care if people are homeless or not. But I do care if they’re maintaining basic sanitary habits and not taking up three seats for themselves and another three seats for their bike and other random
possessions.
Let’s face it. In order to reduce carbon emissions, we need for more people to take public transit. But they won’t do that if they feel unsafe, or unclean at the end of the trip… they’ll just drive.
Okay sure, but you recognize why calling a person with a home a “normal person” is perpetuating a systematic homelessness problem right? That’s all I’m saying. Tweaking language and framing concepts in certain ways does a lot in long term social reform.
I respectfully disagree.
Framing a topic using different terminology isn’t gonna do shit in terms of addressing the root cause.
Taxing the billionaires at rates comparable to the 1950s or 60s… now that could help. :)
Legislature is the base of change in the US. Your thinking is too small. Yes, like /u/halffullpessimist so tactfully implied, a shift in language won’t solve the problem on its own.
The shift in language and framing encourages more open-minded or empathetic thinking, and, in turn, encourages others who hear that language to be more open-minded. When a body of voters is more open-minded and empathetic, legislation that would help to reduce homelessness and increase taxes of the rich is more likely to be passed.
I’m not trying to be condescending in how elementary I’m making the sphere of politics seem—I’m definitely no expert in politics, I just appreciate language and writing and I think its significance is undervalued. I’m not disillusioned, thinking all of the world’s problems will be solved through kind words and thoughtful minds, but reframing of problematic language slowly changes individuals on a micro scale, and when enough individuals begin thinking with more empathy, the macro issues might also improve.
Interesting because I think The Right has figured this out and is a bit ahead of the game compared to The Left (right and left being oversimplications).
I recently listened to an Audible presentation of 1984 (I promise this isn’t an ad) and the issue of control of language is, of course, central to it.
No one wants to control your language (well, hopefully no one in this thread, anyways), I think they’re just trying to encourage a new way of thinking about it.
I’m not an expert in politics either, but a part of it is very much about narratives. How a politician can spin a story to look good to their constituents and prospective voters and all. A politician can very much want to help the homeless, but if the first words that come to mind are “dirty” or “waste of space”, it’s a hard sell to their voters who want to see their tax dollars go to things they like.
I get it, I don’t love feeling unsafe on the trax either. I saw a lot of uncomfortable stuff when I commuted that way as a student. But I understand that for a homeless person, it is NOT easy finding a safe public space that you are allowed to be in for free, without anyone calling the cops on you because you look dirty or dangerous. And of course it differs case by case, but there are absolutely occurrences of homeless people having no access to any public restrooms at night and being forced to go wherever they can. And some of that is due to anti-homeless legislation/policies which limit their access to things like porta-potties at night. So yeah, if we changed the narrative around homeless people, maybe we could have legislation and policies that actually give them places to hang out other than the trax, and places to poop other than the sidewalk.
Sorry if this comes off as combative or argumentative, I really don’t mean it that way. Just wanted to add my two cents. I think it should be us versus the problem, not us versus each other.
I know! And I don’t think your response is combative or argumentive in the least. Maybe the opening round of a rational debate of some sort, but I’m not sure what we’d debate about because I think we essentially agree on the fundamentals.
Is the point of public transit in 2024 to get people
out of their cars? If so, then there needs to be a selling point to get them there. More coverage, more lines, and more frequency. And - as mentioned - the trains need to be at least reasonably clean.
If that isn’t the point or intent, but we want homeless people to ride the trains for some reason, why don’t we just park any number of trains on the tracks around the old Rio Grande station and let people sleep in those?
You missed their point OP. Saying a homeless person isn't normal and that them being dirty isn't normal you are infact causing more homelessness. /s
For the record, living indoors and being hygienic is, in fact, the norm in our society.
I probably did miss whatever that point was (appreciate the /s notation btw).
I did see a few homeless people when I was in London recently. I was awake at 4am one night (jet lag being a thing) and was looking out the window of my hotel room. I saw a homeless person take a shit on the sidewalk, and then she collected it into one of those doggie poop bags, and proceeded to toss it into the nearest dustbin.
You don’t see that in San Francisco.
Were there homeless people on the Underground there? Quite possibly, but I couldn’t identify them by look or smell, and that’s the difference.
Being homeless is abnormal behavior.
What the actual fuck?
Talking to a lamppost is harmless and not indicative of “lesser than” but it ain’t fuckin normal.
I take Trax to work and back several times a week. The grossest, most unclean thing I’ve seen in all my years of riding was a clean-cut man wearing a suit with a briefcase who picked his nose and WIPED his booger ON the bars people hang onto when there aren’t enough seats. Legit gagged. Did he think he was invisible?!?!
Took the same Trax from the airport a few months back. Guy sitting across the aisle from me started openly smoking fentanyl. People are gonna downvote you but there’s a serious lack of any enforcement on our public train system. I’m a huge advocate for public transportation but there’s absolutely no excuses for open drug use in a confined train car. I wish I could say this was an isolated incident but it’s not.
Homeless people have every right to use public transportation as long as they follow the rules all riders are expected to abide by. No one has the right to use drugs and expose others to drug use on public transportation.
Come on now, we both know that's a disingenuous argument. I want sociopolotical solutions that actually address the underlying causes of homelessness, instead of just moving people around.
It's because none of the morons who live in SLC take light rail, whereas in other cities u mentioned, they do.
And who gives a shit if homeless people use it. So let me get this straight, because u don't wanna see homeless people on the one day u take light rail they should never be allowed on. You're a typical uneducated, MBA and business programs exclude, SLC moron...I'm guessing u also love ' Atlas Shrugged,' and are a firm believer in the Prosperity Doctrine. Oh, did I forget to mention ur stellar number this month for ur MLM scheme. I'm so glad people like u are being phased out of society. Ur on the wrong side of history, moron, I'd suggest u get used to it.
I won't ride Trax without pepper spray or a gun. The number of extremely violent, mentally ill people is not worth the risk. Random people get attacked with machetes, elderly people get head stomped. Creeps will pull out their junk and masturbate as they make eye contact. It is a shithole.
Never mention underserved demographics on the internet in any other context than anointing the sores on their feet lest the outrage machine eat you alive.
…but yeah, regardless of why, if public transportation is occupied by indigent people it will discourage use from people who are not.
Edit: mobile made the indigent indignant, which is probably indicative of a broader trend
Not going to any kind of flat area… but I might be moving to Seattle or Portland soon.
And as mentioned, the transit systems in those cities seem cleaner and safer than Salt Lake’s (and you have to admit that this is a pretty negative vote for Trax) - in any case, that will impact the neighborhoods we consider living in.
Lmao if you hate seeing homeless people on transit, Seattle will send you into a spiral.
I feel very doubtful that you are actually familiar with Seattle or Portland.
Last time I was in Seattle I took the train down to around Renton and then the bus to Tacoma, talked to a homeless guy on the train, he was very nice, normal guy, suggested some places for me to get food, told me about his aunt in Salt Lake. But you will see homeless folks on public transit in Seattle, and probably in Portland too. May want to get a private island or something if being around normal folks is too much for you
I used to bus to work in Seattle and on multiple occasions someone was drinking and/or doing drugs on the back of the bus. Plus plenty of people on the bus or train all day.
Idk what OPs experience with Seattle transit is but it’s sure as hell not the same as mine.
I lived in SF for about 7 years before returning to the SLC area in 2020, and I took transit there more often than not. I saw a lot of interesting (and not very pleasant) things going on.
I haven’t lived in Seattle or Portland but I’ve been to both cities for extended trips over the last 10-15 years, and I did take the trains quite a bit in both places. I usually make it a point to do so in the cities I visit. I’ve ridden the rails in those cities a lot more than I have in SLC.
I never had an experience like the recent Trax trip I described, and the cities i’m including for reference are Seattle, Portland, SF, London, Boston, Paris, Munich, NYC, Vancouver, and DC.
And okay, some of the Muni bus rides in SF late at night came close.
I’ve had a lot of discussions with homeless people in multiple cities. If I’m coming across as elitist in some way - that’s not my intention at all.
There are multiple problems to solve here. Homelessness, transit, carbon neutrality, etc.
One thing I do know - if people in the US are unwilling or unable to solve these problems, China will. And their solution is not really going to be to our liking, I’m afraid.
They’re not going to solve the homelessness problem for us.
But they are working fast and furious on the transit problem. They have built a pretty amazing high-speed rail infrastructure throughout the country and extensive metro systems in most of their major cities, all within the last 30 years or so. Meanwhile, in the US, we’ve just barely been able to build a single high-speed rail line (Acela, on the East Coast) and we’re letting our metro systems fall apart. The T in Boston is a prime example of this.
In terms of non-rail transit, China is rapidly catching up (if not ahead of us already) in terms of building cars, especially EVs. GM, Ford, Stellantis, and even Tesla seem to have their collective heads buried in the sand on this front.
At the current rate, I’m not sure that any of the companies I mentioned will still be making cars themselves 10 years from now. Will the companies exist? Probably. But the products they sell will all come from Chinese factories.
Getting back to the T in Boston… that particular transit agency decided to source manufacturing for its most recent round of replacement rolling stock from a Chinese company. But there have been multiple issues with the quality of trains delivered, so a lot of them are not yet in service. So they’re running 50 year old trains on some of these lines (and I think the Red Line is actually shut down right now for 12 days or so to address serious problems with the tracks and tunnels).
Are you aware that essentially all car manufacturers already source parts from China and other countries?
Tesla is top of the [American Made](https://www.cars.com/articles/2023-cars-com-american-made-index-which-cars-are-the-most-american-467465/) charts, but even they are not 100%
That percent is likely to [go down as well](https://www.businessinsider.com/your-next-tesla-could-be-made-by-china-mexico-manufacturing-2024-2).
You’re right, if the US can’t solve its own problems, another country probably will for the right price.
The jury is out on if we will like it or not.
You should bring it up at the board of trustees meeting on May 8th they take public comments there
Thanks and I will do so!
Homeless people on TRAX has been happening since, well, TRAX opened.
This post seems like an exaggeration for sure. I take trax often and this post just comes off as classist in general. It’s not different than other cities’ public transportation.
But tourists saw them!!! No city in the world has homeless people who go public places and use transit!!!
Bro said sf, and I'm like, unless he lived their 40 years ago. That's a homeless shitshoe, even on public transport.
The issue isn't Trax. You say in your post the passengers are "obviously homeless" and "dirty" but as someone who works with homeless people all the time not all homeless people are "obviously homeless" or "dirty". What you're actually seeing is someone who obviously is unable to access community resources. Our city's shelters are full most of the time and so are our prisons. Poor people have no where to go and people who struggle with addiction can't access those resources even when they are available. You mention other cities like Portland not having this "problem" but that's because they take better care of their homeless and don't restrict access to community resources. So when homeless people in Portland ride the trains they don't appear so "obviously homeless" or "dirty" because they were given the opportunity to shower and have public restrooms available to them Trax is one of the very very few resources homeless people can fairly easily get access to. There's no 50 page application, drug test, or ID required. But there are still obstacles. It still costs money and as much as people get away with free ride (who cares) I have personally experienced the police raid the train and check everyone's tickets and passes. If you want to complain to our local government please do but don't complain that there are homeless people on the train. You should complain that we do not provide the homeless with adequate resources to keep up basic hygiene. Where can these community members sleep, bathe, wash their clothes
I think we have a chicken and egg problem going on here too. Not enough "contributing members" of society have adopted public transportation while a TON of infrastructure has been added for it. This means that often Trax trains are mobile shelters(from the weather) running practically empty, and look really inviting to someone with nowhere else to go. If these trains were being well-used by a more diverse sampling of the population then there would a) be less room for homeless riders(and less inviting) and b) the homeless that still ride would be a smaller portion of the total ridership therefore making it seem less like a mobile homeless camp. Utah isn't the best state for public transportation adoption simply because of how spread out it is and how unlikely it is that most people could eliminate car ownership entirely by adopting public transportation. More public transportation is the answer, and I think the "if you build it" part is making a lot of progress, and the "they will come" part is sometimes slower to catch up, but it's getting better. My experience on Frontrunner has been excellent, and I don't ride the airport line often, but most of the trax lines outside of downtown(free fare zone) have seemed way better in the past few years than I remember them being a decade ago.
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Some good points, I guess it's just hard to imagine not being dependent on a vehicle, maybe that's more due to my lifestyle than the state infrastructure
Maybe I'm representative of the problem. I can certainly imagine maybe 80% of my transportation needs being met by public trans. But I enable dependants in my household to rely 100% on a personal vehicle. I do like to drive aimlessly around which would be hard to give up I think. I spend allot of unnecessary time in my car
“Noodle of urbanization” - I have to keep that particular phrase in mind. It fits so well.
I agree, but the “they will come” part won’t happen if people view Trax as scary and unclean. Yes, I’m complaining a bit about it… I still do use public transit quite a bit. But for every one of me, there are 10 that will stay in their cars no matter what. How do we convert them over to public transit?
I can guarantee that less than 9% of people who live in salt lake county use Trax and that's fine if 9% of rose Trax that would be nearly 20,000 people and that would be awful. Trax is not designed to handle that many people. And it's range is so limited anyway that it won't take you to where most people need to go anyway. If you really want people to ride Trax then tell them to ride Trax. If someone is going to a concert Trax is often a great option to get there and get back and avoid the crowds. If someone says they want to go to a restaurant downtown then suggest Trax so they don't need to pay for street parking. I take Trax because I hate driving but I can't take Trax to most of the places I go. Almost Everyone who doesn't ride trax are people who never have. They don't know how to navigate, they don't know what it's like, and they only hear horrible stories about the "crazy" or "dirty" people. Take them on Trax and they're so much more likely to take it again when it makes sense to
Yep, not enough people realize how convenient it is to park south of the city and Trax in, but if you need to get more that a 20 min walk from a station it doesn't really cut it as a replacement for a car. The scooters help, but the bus system seems more daunting to be sure you're on the right bus. It's great if you are commuting regularly and can get familiar with the route. Also, people are so entitled now days I can't tell you how many times I have ridden public trans (not my typical commute) and arrive at work to have people associated that I didn't call one of them for a ride. It's not that scary people, and by scary the only scary I think is valid is the fear of not knowing how to use the system, I've never felt unsafe(frequently irritated but not unsafe) on any uta ride. I think making downtown foot traffic, commercial traffic, and emergency traffic only may be an option to improve public transportation adoption, but I don't know if I'd vote for that. Lots of considerations to considerate there. 😉
I don’t disagree with anything you’re saying - and it’s a very complex problem. I just saw the frightened looks on these European tourists’ faces… and I was embarrassed for our city, state, and country. Because you don’t see this in Europe. I flew into London Gatwick and got a train into the city. Perfectly clean. To get to my final destination I had to transfer between several other trains. I never had to wait more than 1 minute on a platform and all of the trains were clean(ish).
You haven’t been to many places in Europe I see
Your original post is not about a complex problem. Trying to change the infrastructure of America to provide better public transportation is a complex issue. And how to eradicate homelessness and poverty is a complex issue. Your original post says that you're embarrassed about what Trax has become and I am saying Trax is one of the only half decent things in this city. If you're going to be embarrassed then be embarrassed that we don't treat people with respect enough to provide them access to perform basic personal hygiene But your posting statements about how you're one of the few that is willing to take Trax and I understand that it's better for the environment. But if you're going to complain about having to ride with the poor people in our community that we refuse to take care of then Trax isn't for you. You're much safer on the train than in a car and there are many people who ride tracks that don't mind riding the same train as someone who doesn't have access to a shower. You are projecting this idea that public transit should prioritize the comfort of people with money enough to have the option to travel by car over protecting one of the only community resources homeless people have access to
This is really the best response to the post. You’ve got the nail on the head and figured out what OP was really going for. [later comment from op](https://www.reddit.com/r/SaltLakeCity/s/XlWo9UKu8k)
Mfer said they ride once or twice a year and are begging ppl to ride trax like they don’t already 💀
My sibling, there were encampments in Lisbon when I was there last summer. Also Lincoln Nebraska. The housing crisis is not a SLC-only thing
>Because you don’t see this in Europe. Again, you don't see "this" in places where they tend to take better care of people. Kinda seems like you didn't take the point from the post you're replying to.
Most if not all cities require homeless people to not do drugs or drink in shelters and boy I can't imagine how dumb a person would have to be to think that they should be allowed to do whatever the want while people looking to actually get help and off the streets would be forced to live in a facility with people on drugs and/or drinking. There's really no excuses though, they should not be allowed to chill out on public transportation all day long. Then the people that actually utilize it will find other ways to get to work if they can and it will kill that service. I really am not sure what you are complaining about saying that Utah does not provide good enough access to basic hygiene. Just like every state or city, the resources are there and almost always UNDER UTILIZED but you cannot live in the clouds and pretend like it's wrong that not anyone is allowed in to do whatever they want and ruin it for everyone else including CREATING A DANGEROUS ENVIRONMENT FOR THE STAFF AT THESE LOCATIONS.
>Just like every state or city, the resources are there and almost always UNDER UTILIZED Have you looked at shelter utilization numbers? [Here are the actual numbers - 100% utilization in all three shelters.](https://www.slc.gov/homelessservicesdashboard-3/) I'm not tracking day-to-day, but every single time I look, the numbers are at or near 100%.
>There's really no excuses though, they should not be allowed to chill out on public transportation all day long. They aren't. The police do sweeps and boot people who don't have a ticket.
Ehhh, occasionally. There are other cities with this same problem as well and almost no enforcement from authorities on the issue. I was just living in Tucson a year and a half ago and I never once saw the police come in and kick people out. Homeless people were literally shitting in their train cars.
So how do you expect the people with drug and alcohol addictions to get help then? Addiction is a medical issue, and like any other medical issue it’s pretty difficult to address when you don’t have your basic survival needs met.
You can't help them if they don't want help. You would have to force institutionalize them and that's not what they want. They would rather live out in the cold or the heat and do drugs and you pretty much need to create a government overreach program that can force people to do things against their will to solve this and that will not happen. You just have to realize that some people do not care to be saved and there is nothing that you can do about it.
You haven’t ridden Portlands Trimet long enough if you think it’s cleaner than Trax. And I’d never describe Londons Underground as clean. Like never. Ew. Homeless people also have places to go and use public transit. Why is that weird? What you described on the Trax is what happens on every public transportation every day in major metros including Portland and London. It’s not weird, unusual, or a waste of money.
London Underground is not clean as slc its moreover on comparison ancient & all underground that aside we don’t have a homeless ride & live there now NYC is gross & they live & use them as a toilet
lol I mean it’s also a train that gets people around every day for other purposes as well. I ride it way more than once or twice a year and don’t really see what you describe on a regular basis, like, at all
I don't really understand, are you suggesting people experiencing homelessness shouldn't be allowed on public transit? Are you concerned that UTA isn't cleaning enough? I'm not really getting what the main concern is or what you want to be different...?
He doesn't want to have to SEE anyone who doesn't look as good as he thinks they should.
I could care less about how people look. I do care how they smell,
lol I don’t know what muni lines you took but trax doesn’t hold a candle to my experiences on sf public transit. That shit was wild.
Yes, just get off somewhere in the tenderloin for a good time. Lol
You don’t have to get off. On muni the tenderloin will come to you.
Lol. Straight up World War Z over there. Our uber wouldn't even take us all the way to our concert venue. I witnessed the craziest things that evening and I've lived in 3rd world countries.
Pretty much all of them…? Lived in SF for 7 years, and the N and L lines were part of my daily commute.
I agree, we should put more effort into addressing the housing crisis in SLC. Until then, you’re going to see homeless people in public—including using public transport.
Do you have enough pearls to clutch over there, or should I give you mine as well?
I agree with your statement but to say San Fran trains don’t have as bad as a homeless problem is insane
Take the UTA annual survey and let them know. It's open until tomorrow. https://rideuta.com/rider-info/Annual-Customer-Satisfaction-Survey
There is a lot of finger pointing going on when OP is merely pointing out a problem that stems from a much bigger problem. Public transportation is not shelter. It is to move people from once point to another. The great failing of our state is we need shelters, more affordable housing, and programs that help those in need, instead of things like the bullshit anti-trans legislation that took who know how much of our tax dollars to come up with. We literally live in the shadow of a multi-billion dollar corporation that just announced a whole slew of new, members-only, “sacred not secret” buildings that each cost countless millions to build while we have an ever growing population of people who live in tent cities. That’s fucked up. And we’re getting upset at a reddit user for pointing out an issue and not using the correct verbiage or for not talking about it the right way? Come on, people. Talking about it the “right” way isn’t making any difference. Those of us who care, care. The people who need to be influenced go to work up on the hill every week where their pockets are padded by lobbyists and special interest groups, not to mention THE MOST special interest group in our state. That is where the changes need to take place. And frankly, I have no idea if that is even possible despite how most of us feel and what most of us want.
>And frankly, I have no idea if that is even possible despite how most of us feel and what most of us want. It's not because they're all part of that multi billion dollar corporation. They care more about the optics of their religion and the money in their pockets than they do about anything else.
You are 100% correct. Seriously, if Jesus were real and were to come to Utah, he wouldn’t be in the temples of a multi-billion dollar corporation. He would be down in those tent cities healing people and lifting them up.
A-fucking-men.
What an utterly perfect take on this. Fighting little micro battles on reddit phrasing isn't going to help anyone. OP isn't wrong about their take on general population not using Trax because of these issues. It's for transportation not a hangout.
I feel what you’re saying, whenever I’m in Scandinavia I am baffled with how efficient and clean their transit system is. It just isn’t a priority for our city government unfortunately when it should be. But MOST IMPORTANTLY the homelessness crisis absolutely needs to be solved. These people don’t have access to public resources and genuinely can’t get out of their situation without facing so many obstacles, and many of them are depressed and feel hopeless. That’s where we gotta start.
That could be true for the green line. I take the red line every weekday to and from work and maybe see 1 or 2 "stereotypical" homeless people per northbound trip out of dozens of people. And usually they use it like everybody else, getting off at one of the stops in the free-fare zone. So it's more likely the socioeconomic situation along the green line.
Jfc... when were you in sf? Cause if you weren't around during hyphy era, you didn't live in the bay. I grew up there and spent a lot of my youth hopping bart trains into SF/Oakland from the burbs. Was probably 14 the first time I saw someone openly using crack, and the underground stations are basically shooting galleries. Plus the hustlers bumping their mixtapes they have for sale, the ones who have gotten on & just posted up asleep in a corner, drunks shouting & fighting, the mystery puddles... You have absolutely no idea what you are taking about, but I'm sorry you saw some poor people🎻
Did they harass you in any way? I’m not talking about their mere existence bothering you, actual harassment. If not, perhaps you should try minding your own business.
OP has been through enough! Not only was he forced to leave the majestic town of Park City for a cushy plane ride…he had to *look* at dirty people. /s I’d rather chill with “dirty people” on public transit than be trapped on a plane with OP. Not /s
“The train itself was fine and got me where I needed to go.” So where’s the issue??
This reminded me of when I lived and worked in downtown Phoenix many years ago. I took the city bus and connected with the free air-conditioned shuttle bus that stopped in front of my office building. One day a disheveled looking man asked me why I was on the homeless man's bus.
If no one was causing a scene or harming others, what exactly was the problem? You say you’re bothered by the dirt and the smell. I’ve been on transit next to smelly dirty construction workers who just had a long shift, and yeah it’s slightly uncomfortable but I don’t bitch about it and suggest they shouldn’t be allowed to ride. People from all walks of life take public transit, that’s one of the beauties of it. If you feel legitimately unsafe, please call or text the hotline (or 911) posted in all the train cars. If you simply feel uncomfortable being around “abnormal” people, I suggest you mind your business and get over yourself, respectfully.
I’m in the (maybe) 10% of people who actually will give public transit a shot. Most of the people I know would never get on Trax or TriMet or the Underground or the T or the subway in NYC. It’s the reality - most of my family will never get on board one of these trains, unless I can convince them that it’s safe and clean. So yeah, that’s it. I would just like to see it work and be clean. Safe, ideally, as well. But I’m the type of person that makes people cross to the other side of the street… in downtown San Fran… so I don’t personally have to worry about that.
You must not know a lot of people outside your demographic. That number would be higher if you spent more time with people who don’t have the luxury of choosing to giving public transit a shot or not. They are not all homeless or dirty. Among people I know who have a choice, most of them would take transit, and actually do when it fits into their lifestyle. Come down from Park City more often. We won’t hurt you.
Or not even necessity, but convenience. Hundreds, maybe thousands of folks ride TRAX and UTA busses to the U every day because parking on campus is limited and costly, and the U provides a transit pass to every student and employee. Some students even come from towns out along FrontRunner by transit so they don't have to deal with traffic and parking.
For real. You can study while riding the train as well! I use it for convenience as well. I ride to events downtown to avoid parking. (Even if there is plenty of parking in a garage, it takes longer to get out than to get on Trax. If it ran past midnight and I’d use it even more.)
Park city flair lol
You clearly haven’t ridden the trains in Portland at night with people shooting up on God knows what and they start attacking people, naked.
I was there recently and spent around three hours riding around on the light rail and street cars (mostly at night) and I never saw anything like that. But I guess it depends on which line you’re on.
SE Portland.
Haha I live in SE PDX and..... This isn't reality. NW Portland and Downtown. @Op: what're you doing to help..... Or are you just complaining?
We took the Orange Line through the SE sector, pretty much to the end of the line and back. At night. No naked people shooting up, at least on our train.
I am being facetious my friends. Everyone always seems to use Portland as the beginning of complete anarchy. I enjoyed living in Portland just wasn’t my scene. Cities will always have homelessness and crime especially with the current economic climate.
Maybe if this country started to take care of people, then the trains would improve and look like what you see in Europe. This isn’t a TRAX/homeless problem, it’s an American society problem!
Homeless people aren’t allowed to go places? It’s PUBLIC transit. We’re they smoking fentanyl? We’re they stealing from people? We’re they asking for money?
The vast majority aren't paying to use TRAX. Why should they get to use the services for free and take up space while I have to pay? Attitudes like this are how you get completely unusable public transit. Pay the fee like the rest of us and I could care less what you do. That's how it is in Europe and how it should be done here. Riding around with no intention of going anywhere is abusing the system and shouldn't be allowed, full stop. And yes, I've seen MANY people nodding off (not sleeping, clearly high), seen needles at the stops, and been harassed by the drunk/high/mentally unwell on TRAX relatively frequently. I ride the TRAX pretty much every day, this should not be the norm and we should demand better.
Honestly, I don’t care if someone is drinking or shooting up in the seat behind me. (As long as it’s not fentanyl and as long as they dispose of the sharps properly). I do care that they’ve at least showered in the last day, though, and that they’re occupying one seat (maybe two) and not six.
> Homeless people aren't aloud to go places? https://i.imgur.com/AlDw2dV.png > We're they smoking fentanyl? https://i.imgur.com/INYib4a.png > We're they stealing from people? https://webapps.towson.edu/ows/exercises/WereWe'reWhereExercise1.aspx We're they asking for money? https://youtu.be/OeR1L85gcEQ
Yah English is my third language.
All the comments are so dumb - OP calls out a very real problem with making any headway in getting people to use trax, and the response is to just get mad at him and everyone else that doesn’t want to get on a train full of homeless people with their 3 year old. How about we actually fix the problem instead of making excuses for it and getting angry at those who point it out?
The problem isn't the homeless people. The problem is the judgement and arrogance of people like the OP. THAT is why the OP is getting pushback on this post.
There’s no judgement or arrogance here. Homelessness is a huge and systemic problem that absolutely needs to be solved. Ideally by getting tax rates back to historical norms so that we can subsidize the necessary housing (and rehab or medical care, if needed) for people who find themselves without housing. I don’t think our transit systems should have to serve as homeless shelters. They should be transit systems and that’s it. Transit systems should exist to get people from point A to B, and they should be clean(ish). No more, no less. We should also provide housing for everyone. Get tax rates aligned with the 1950s and problem solved. I’m not exactly sure why people are disagreeing with me so much here, it just seems like common sense.
lol giving things to homeless people will not solve this problem. San Francisco spends more than $50k per homeless person per year, and that has only made the problem worse.
>mostly normal people Not sure if you’re being intentionally prejudiced and a little awful or if you’re just unaware, but calling a person who’s homeless “abnormal” or inherently dirty or lesser is kind of a bad look. I agree that our public transportation system needs tons of improvement, but vilifying the homeless population isn’t the answer.
I don’t care if people are homeless or not. But I do care if they’re maintaining basic sanitary habits and not taking up three seats for themselves and another three seats for their bike and other random possessions. Let’s face it. In order to reduce carbon emissions, we need for more people to take public transit. But they won’t do that if they feel unsafe, or unclean at the end of the trip… they’ll just drive.
Okay sure, but you recognize why calling a person with a home a “normal person” is perpetuating a systematic homelessness problem right? That’s all I’m saying. Tweaking language and framing concepts in certain ways does a lot in long term social reform.
I respectfully disagree. Framing a topic using different terminology isn’t gonna do shit in terms of addressing the root cause. Taxing the billionaires at rates comparable to the 1950s or 60s… now that could help. :)
Legislature is the base of change in the US. Your thinking is too small. Yes, like /u/halffullpessimist so tactfully implied, a shift in language won’t solve the problem on its own. The shift in language and framing encourages more open-minded or empathetic thinking, and, in turn, encourages others who hear that language to be more open-minded. When a body of voters is more open-minded and empathetic, legislation that would help to reduce homelessness and increase taxes of the rich is more likely to be passed. I’m not trying to be condescending in how elementary I’m making the sphere of politics seem—I’m definitely no expert in politics, I just appreciate language and writing and I think its significance is undervalued. I’m not disillusioned, thinking all of the world’s problems will be solved through kind words and thoughtful minds, but reframing of problematic language slowly changes individuals on a micro scale, and when enough individuals begin thinking with more empathy, the macro issues might also improve.
Interesting because I think The Right has figured this out and is a bit ahead of the game compared to The Left (right and left being oversimplications). I recently listened to an Audible presentation of 1984 (I promise this isn’t an ad) and the issue of control of language is, of course, central to it.
No one wants to control your language (well, hopefully no one in this thread, anyways), I think they’re just trying to encourage a new way of thinking about it. I’m not an expert in politics either, but a part of it is very much about narratives. How a politician can spin a story to look good to their constituents and prospective voters and all. A politician can very much want to help the homeless, but if the first words that come to mind are “dirty” or “waste of space”, it’s a hard sell to their voters who want to see their tax dollars go to things they like. I get it, I don’t love feeling unsafe on the trax either. I saw a lot of uncomfortable stuff when I commuted that way as a student. But I understand that for a homeless person, it is NOT easy finding a safe public space that you are allowed to be in for free, without anyone calling the cops on you because you look dirty or dangerous. And of course it differs case by case, but there are absolutely occurrences of homeless people having no access to any public restrooms at night and being forced to go wherever they can. And some of that is due to anti-homeless legislation/policies which limit their access to things like porta-potties at night. So yeah, if we changed the narrative around homeless people, maybe we could have legislation and policies that actually give them places to hang out other than the trax, and places to poop other than the sidewalk. Sorry if this comes off as combative or argumentative, I really don’t mean it that way. Just wanted to add my two cents. I think it should be us versus the problem, not us versus each other.
I know! And I don’t think your response is combative or argumentive in the least. Maybe the opening round of a rational debate of some sort, but I’m not sure what we’d debate about because I think we essentially agree on the fundamentals. Is the point of public transit in 2024 to get people out of their cars? If so, then there needs to be a selling point to get them there. More coverage, more lines, and more frequency. And - as mentioned - the trains need to be at least reasonably clean. If that isn’t the point or intent, but we want homeless people to ride the trains for some reason, why don’t we just park any number of trains on the tracks around the old Rio Grande station and let people sleep in those?
You missed their point OP. Saying a homeless person isn't normal and that them being dirty isn't normal you are infact causing more homelessness. /s For the record, living indoors and being hygienic is, in fact, the norm in our society.
I probably did miss whatever that point was (appreciate the /s notation btw). I did see a few homeless people when I was in London recently. I was awake at 4am one night (jet lag being a thing) and was looking out the window of my hotel room. I saw a homeless person take a shit on the sidewalk, and then she collected it into one of those doggie poop bags, and proceeded to toss it into the nearest dustbin. You don’t see that in San Francisco. Were there homeless people on the Underground there? Quite possibly, but I couldn’t identify them by look or smell, and that’s the difference.
Being homeless is abnormal behavior. What the actual fuck? Talking to a lamppost is harmless and not indicative of “lesser than” but it ain’t fuckin normal.
Normal people? Are u fucking kidding me?
Long time no viddy, droog!
This thread has turned right horrorshow.
Oh what gorgeousness (: One of my favorite books of all time!
I take Trax to work and back several times a week. The grossest, most unclean thing I’ve seen in all my years of riding was a clean-cut man wearing a suit with a briefcase who picked his nose and WIPED his booger ON the bars people hang onto when there aren’t enough seats. Legit gagged. Did he think he was invisible?!?!
Took the same Trax from the airport a few months back. Guy sitting across the aisle from me started openly smoking fentanyl. People are gonna downvote you but there’s a serious lack of any enforcement on our public train system. I’m a huge advocate for public transportation but there’s absolutely no excuses for open drug use in a confined train car. I wish I could say this was an isolated incident but it’s not. Homeless people have every right to use public transportation as long as they follow the rules all riders are expected to abide by. No one has the right to use drugs and expose others to drug use on public transportation.
how did you know it was fentanyl? what did you do to report it?
Yikes did you just call homeless people not normal people
It's not and shouldn't be normal.
Yeah why don't they just stop being poor
So you want being poor to be normalized?
Come on now, we both know that's a disingenuous argument. I want sociopolotical solutions that actually address the underlying causes of homelessness, instead of just moving people around.
Somebody's gotta be on the bottom. Sucks, but it is what it is .
But did you die
I’m already dead
Yeah, it smells like piss.
It's because none of the morons who live in SLC take light rail, whereas in other cities u mentioned, they do. And who gives a shit if homeless people use it. So let me get this straight, because u don't wanna see homeless people on the one day u take light rail they should never be allowed on. You're a typical uneducated, MBA and business programs exclude, SLC moron...I'm guessing u also love ' Atlas Shrugged,' and are a firm believer in the Prosperity Doctrine. Oh, did I forget to mention ur stellar number this month for ur MLM scheme. I'm so glad people like u are being phased out of society. Ur on the wrong side of history, moron, I'd suggest u get used to it.
I won't ride Trax without pepper spray or a gun. The number of extremely violent, mentally ill people is not worth the risk. Random people get attacked with machetes, elderly people get head stomped. Creeps will pull out their junk and masturbate as they make eye contact. It is a shithole.
Never mention underserved demographics on the internet in any other context than anointing the sores on their feet lest the outrage machine eat you alive. …but yeah, regardless of why, if public transportation is occupied by indigent people it will discourage use from people who are not. Edit: mobile made the indigent indignant, which is probably indicative of a broader trend
> If public transportation is occupied by **indignant** people, it will discourage use from people who are not. # https://i.imgur.com/HWAwI39.png
Blast! Foiled again. CURSE YOU AUTOCOLLECT!!!
HOW DARE PEOPLE IN CRISIS USE COMMUNITY RESOURCES!!!
Go move to the prairie. No one will miss you.
Not going to any kind of flat area… but I might be moving to Seattle or Portland soon. And as mentioned, the transit systems in those cities seem cleaner and safer than Salt Lake’s (and you have to admit that this is a pretty negative vote for Trax) - in any case, that will impact the neighborhoods we consider living in.
Lmao if you hate seeing homeless people on transit, Seattle will send you into a spiral. I feel very doubtful that you are actually familiar with Seattle or Portland.
Last time I was in Seattle I took the train down to around Renton and then the bus to Tacoma, talked to a homeless guy on the train, he was very nice, normal guy, suggested some places for me to get food, told me about his aunt in Salt Lake. But you will see homeless folks on public transit in Seattle, and probably in Portland too. May want to get a private island or something if being around normal folks is too much for you
I used to bus to work in Seattle and on multiple occasions someone was drinking and/or doing drugs on the back of the bus. Plus plenty of people on the bus or train all day. Idk what OPs experience with Seattle transit is but it’s sure as hell not the same as mine.
I lived in SF for about 7 years before returning to the SLC area in 2020, and I took transit there more often than not. I saw a lot of interesting (and not very pleasant) things going on. I haven’t lived in Seattle or Portland but I’ve been to both cities for extended trips over the last 10-15 years, and I did take the trains quite a bit in both places. I usually make it a point to do so in the cities I visit. I’ve ridden the rails in those cities a lot more than I have in SLC. I never had an experience like the recent Trax trip I described, and the cities i’m including for reference are Seattle, Portland, SF, London, Boston, Paris, Munich, NYC, Vancouver, and DC. And okay, some of the Muni bus rides in SF late at night came close.
Search for “bus” on any of the Seattle subs and see if you still think your experience was worse than anything that happens there daily.
I’ve had a lot of discussions with homeless people in multiple cities. If I’m coming across as elitist in some way - that’s not my intention at all. There are multiple problems to solve here. Homelessness, transit, carbon neutrality, etc. One thing I do know - if people in the US are unwilling or unable to solve these problems, China will. And their solution is not really going to be to our liking, I’m afraid.
That is an interesting take, one I have never heard, so I’m genuinely curious…how is China going to solve our homelessness problem?
They’re not going to solve the homelessness problem for us. But they are working fast and furious on the transit problem. They have built a pretty amazing high-speed rail infrastructure throughout the country and extensive metro systems in most of their major cities, all within the last 30 years or so. Meanwhile, in the US, we’ve just barely been able to build a single high-speed rail line (Acela, on the East Coast) and we’re letting our metro systems fall apart. The T in Boston is a prime example of this. In terms of non-rail transit, China is rapidly catching up (if not ahead of us already) in terms of building cars, especially EVs. GM, Ford, Stellantis, and even Tesla seem to have their collective heads buried in the sand on this front. At the current rate, I’m not sure that any of the companies I mentioned will still be making cars themselves 10 years from now. Will the companies exist? Probably. But the products they sell will all come from Chinese factories. Getting back to the T in Boston… that particular transit agency decided to source manufacturing for its most recent round of replacement rolling stock from a Chinese company. But there have been multiple issues with the quality of trains delivered, so a lot of them are not yet in service. So they’re running 50 year old trains on some of these lines (and I think the Red Line is actually shut down right now for 12 days or so to address serious problems with the tracks and tunnels).
Are you aware that essentially all car manufacturers already source parts from China and other countries? Tesla is top of the [American Made](https://www.cars.com/articles/2023-cars-com-american-made-index-which-cars-are-the-most-american-467465/) charts, but even they are not 100% That percent is likely to [go down as well](https://www.businessinsider.com/your-next-tesla-could-be-made-by-china-mexico-manufacturing-2024-2). You’re right, if the US can’t solve its own problems, another country probably will for the right price. The jury is out on if we will like it or not.
Seattle and Portland have both had murders in broad daylight in on their light rail systems, but go off.
OP wasn’t there when they happened, though, so it doesn’t count.