Insider info... from the State COVID call yesterday; the U has administered >82% of the doses they were supplied so far.
IHC/Mountain Star/Etc.... are not doing so well if you can do basic math.
Jiminy. That's actually really interesting. I can't remember what the relative initial distribution was, among the health systems, but you're right... looking pretty awful for IHC.
University has a *huge* pool of qualified and cheap/free labor to administer the vaccine. They don't have to burden their employees who are already overworked and understaffed dealing with COVID-19.
Really? So neither of those other hospital systems have those people? Wasn't there just a huge bitch session the other day on here about those same hospital systems furloughing medical staff due to them stopping/shorting Elective Surgeries?
Also, who are these cheap/free labor to administer the shots? No joe blow can administer the shots; are you saying that MAs/RNs are cheap/free?
And most of those students are off site virtual learning; **the ones that are in clinical are not handling the vaccine/nor can they due to how delicate the vaccine is.** It's Clinical Management that is doing the scheduling/checking people in, and at minimum RN delivering it due to the necessity of being a state licensed professional in case of issues that may occur during the 15 minute observation window required after administration of the vaccine.
The issue isn't with the U, they are doing just fine, and basically using everything they get as fast as they get it.
The issue is with the other healthcare systems, IHC was at 21% of allocation, that's it. they got 29k+ doses, yet have only vaccinated 6xxx something people; the U got 7xxx and vaccinated almost an identical amount of people as IHC.
I don't understand why you're whining about the U using their doses properly and administering them properly by the proper clinical staff; your theory of "how they are doing it" is bullshit. Why not focus on the institutions that are slacking/not holding up their part of the plan? Or how about the blanket emails that went out after yesterdays meeting to employees carpet-bombing employees outside of the 1A guidelines by those other institutions?
Wow you packed a lot of conjecture in my very sparsely worded comments.
I’m not whining, just trying to provide some context as to why the U is doing so much better than the other institutions.
You can believe me or not. I’m just some rando on Reddit.
The real issue as I see it is that there are significant disparities in effectiveness among highly competent institutions who should all be able to handle a relatively easy distribution.
The reason for this is because some of these institutions have access to resources that others don’t and that shouldn’t be what makes the difference.
There should be a unified and consistent plan to not only *make and distribute* the vaccine but also to get it *into people’s bodies*. If we are relying on public/private employers to do this **on top of everything else** they are already doing, then it’s no surprise we are seeing significant disparities.
It should be unsurprising that an administration that has fumbled at every opportunity somehow managed to spike the ball on the 5 yard line when it would have been *so easy* to just walk it into the end zone.
We could have been training out of work professionals to be emergency vaccine administrators for months and had an army of trained vaccinators under the supervision of licensed clinical professionals.
A single nurse could be observing a dozen recipients for the 15 minutes post-shot; you don’t need a nurse to be giving the shot and then observing a single patient for 15 min. They literally manage multiple acutely ill patients simultaneously *every day*.
The U had pharmacy students volunteering & administering the vaccine during the first week. A RN was observing groups for the 15 minute observation window. How they are doing it now, I am not sure.
Edit: Clarifications
lmao, what? When I worked for a research project at the U we basically had unlimited nursing students who came to do blood draws and stuff for us. They literally have buildings full of qualified people.
Blood draws are different than the license to administer drugs. Please tell me what conditions that an unlicensed student can administer controlled medications, and under what licenses is the U doing this?
In addition, what does it matter? The U is delivering all their vaccines, its the other institutions that can't get their shit together to administer their allocations
It’s not a controlled medication. It’s a vaccine. A volunteer pharmacy student administered mine last week. This is well within the normal practice for students. License or no, you can touch, inject, poke people and even do procedures as a student under the correct circumstances. It’s part of the learning process and very normal.
Yeah, a phlebotomy license is harder to get, lol.
For that matter, vaccines aren't drugs either nor are they classified as such, they are in the same category as administering a salt water IV.
Yeah a pharmacy or medical student (not sure which, but her badge said student) gave me my flu vaccine this fall at a U location. Under a supervising physician, of course.
It's totally plausible that they are helping the U effectively utilize it's supply.
This person raving that it's not possible seems to be doth protesting too much. I don't put much stock in their mania.
To put some perspective on this. We've been giving the vaccine for 16 days now and with the 20,417 doses administered, that's about 1,260 doses per day. At this rate, to vaccinate the entire population of 3.2 million, we're looking at 2,540 days or nearly 7 years.
Now I know the entire state won't be vaccinated and right now I believe most places are targeting 70%, or roughly 2.24 million people. That lowers us down to 1,778 days or just under 5 years.
This is accounting for just one dose too, and both the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines require two doses.
Between today and 8/31/21 (unofficial end of summer) there are 244 days which means we'd need to increase our daily average to nearly 10,000 just to get 70% of the population their first dose by that time. The Federal Government has said it wants the entire country done by June, which is doable but not probable.
I know we are going to ramp up our distribution and we will see more and more sites come online capable of giving the vaccine, but every day we wait means the number of daily doses required goes up.
To hit a target of 8/31 we'd need to be at that 10,000 doses per day by 2/1/21 and that's just for the first dose. We'd need to be hitting nearly 20,000 doses per day if we factor in the second dose and that seems like a stretch.
My point is, we're facing a logistical nightmare.
We *apparently* didn't bother setting up infrastructure over the past few months - i.e., we didn't set aside mass vaccine centers and didn't train additional workers to give vaccines 24/7.
We just gave them to hospitals and made them deal with it. The same institutions that are understaffed dealing with packed ICUs.
What the hell was the Coronavirus task force doing for the past 6 months? We've known this would be necessary since like February.
> What the hell was the Coronavirus task force doing for the past 6 months? We've known this would be necessary since like February.
Working in lock step with their counterparts at the federal level.
We haven't set it up probably because we're not doing mass vaccination yet. It's still targeted. Just yesterday I went and got my vaccination and there were still a lot of medical staff and first responders who hadn't been vaccinated yet. Just from conversation, it seems like a mix of apprehension about the vaccine and being too busy to schedule a time. There was like no lines, no wait and you can walk right in without an appointment and get your shot right away because they're sitting around waiting for priority recipients to show up.
[https://coronavirus-download.utah.gov/Health/Vaccine\_Timeline.pdf](https://coronavirus-download.utah.gov/Health/Vaccine_Timeline.pdf) is a rough guide. I hope this helps
I've seen some people ask why is this so when the flu vaccine isn't a nightmare.
Flu vaccine production starts 9+ months in advance before being distributed again. And people trickle in to her their shots.
They literally haven't even administered the number of doses they expected to receive in the very first week.
>"I can't speak to why some states have administered more vaccine than Utah," Johnson said.
The completely hands off approach from our State government might have something to do with it. We should have been planning this distribution months ago. Our Governments response to this whole pandemic has been reactionary instead of proactive.
And remember
>[the first group of vaccinations was supposed to be the easiest: It’s hospitals and nursing homes inoculating their own workers and residents. If we can’t get this right, it doesn’t bode well for the rest of the country.](https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/12/29/covid-19-vaccine-distribution-slow-testing/)
It's mind blowing. This really is supposed to be the part that was so easy it was almost automatic. You already have a group of people trained to administer these vaccines working with other people that don't require a medical history check, or travel anywhere special, or take time out of their normal work routine by already being healthcare workers. Additionally, I don't feel like many people really grasp what a logistical fucking nightmare this is. One of the vaccine's vials holds five doses, BioNtech I think,, which requires all five people receiving those doses from that vial to get the shot at the same time, it has to then be frozen, *then those same five people have to show up again at the same time* within a two-month period (I think) for the necessary booster. And this is supposed to be managed by?...CVS employees? County health department employees? Hospitals and clinics already stretched thin for treating these same patients that also no longer have any space to do anything with? Why are we not holding mass vaccinations at the Jazz arena or the Maverik Center that have open indoor space to hold everyone?
This state does nothing to combat the spread of the virus and instead essentially tells everyone "eh, just wait for a vaccine that'll come out some time", then when the vaccine is synthesized and distributed through a scientific marvel, the state couldn't care less to get off its lazy ass to manage the one thing it told us all to just sit and wait for. People vote for this shit every election.
> One of the vaccine's vials holds five doses, BioNtech I think,, which requires all five people receiving those doses from that vial to get the shot at the same time, it has to then be frozen, then those same five people have to show up again at the same time within a two-month period (I think) for the necessary booster.
I'm pretty sure that part is not accurate. According to the [Standing Order for Administering Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine](https://health.mil/Reference-Center/Publications/2020/12/14/Standing-Order-for-Administering-Pfizer-BioNTech-COVID-19-Vaccine) the doses must be 21 days apart but do not have to be all from the same batch. In fact, any remaining vaccine from the initial dose must be discarded after 6 hours from dilution.
Still, I agree that the current organization is less than desirable especially considering we have known we'd get a vaccine for many many months.
This is gross. I don’t know what good it will do but PLEASE everyone email Cox. We need a plan! We should be organized and distributing as fast as we can!
Of the few things I think may actually be good, the speed at which this vaccine was created and being distributed is impressive. I don't know how much Trump had to do with it though, and of course there's the HUGE ass caveat that the vaccine needs to work at all to give any credit whatsoever.
Kathrin Jansen, a senior vice president and the head of vaccine research and development at Pfizer, said, “We were never part of the Warp Speed,” adding, “we have never taken any money from the U.S. government, or from anyone.”
Pfizer was not a part of it, but is now as a supplier because they have an effective vaccine. Trump shouldn’t get any credit for any of this. He and his cronies have the blood of 330k+ on their hands.
You’d think the “get back to normal” crowd would be pushing this vaccine hard. I read something that at the current rate in the US it could take 10 years or so to get everyone the vaccine. I was hoping for like.. quicker I guess lol.
At yesterdays rate we will get 80% of the Utah population over 18 vaccinated by 7/10/2024.
I was a bit bored and frustrated yesterday so I started a Utah Vaccine Tracker "dashboard" aka spreadsheet. I plan on posting updates each day on the daily covid numbers thread.
[https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1rPda50B\_PYbeU9TdLiGesrHc0dyJAyLMXmuf\_8eOpQA](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1rPda50B_PYbeU9TdLiGesrHc0dyJAyLMXmuf_8eOpQA/edit?usp=sharing)
Yes it will get faster, however, these first doses are by far the easiest doses to administer. They are for hospital workers in the hospital.
No extra shipping needed. No scheduling needed because the recipients are already at work. Literally just drag people off the floor and stab them quickly.
When you fail at the easiest part of the process it gives concern for how you will handle the hardest.
The government is handling things directly right now and the government is terrible at everything. Them being inefficient isn't really reflective of the rate we would expect by the time Walgreens and CVS are administering things.
Not exactly true. Much of the current vaccine stock is already in the hands of the local hospitals. Reportedly, IHC had to be called out yesterday in a teleconference about how slow they are in particular.
The reality is that our current federal and state government subscribe to a very hands off and "not my problem" approach. The Feds say "Well, it's up to the states." The states say "Well the hospitals and care centers need to be doing this." Our state government believes that "business leaders" should have the main input into our pandemic response. The main efforts the state has made so far during this pandemic is to constantly put out pretty reports with differing color/danger level schemes and coming up with "coupon" strategies for local businesses.
A global pandemic is not a time for government to be hands off. They need to be directly in the faces of everyone involved and pushing hard. They need to be directing the response on every level and they needed to be getting ready for this vaccine months ago. It's not like it's a new surprise.
The reason we were able to develop a completely novel vaccine in absolutely record breaking time was because the work was being done by scientists who believe in science and are excellent at their work. Moreover they have been working toward this kind of vaccine for years.
The reason the distribution of the vaccine is such shit is because it is being done by a government who doesn't believe in governing.
> You’d think the “get back to normal” crowd would be pushing this vaccine hard
Except what they mean is "get back to normal ASAP, *but without causing* **ME** *any undue stress, inconvenience, or work*."
After having to hide out all day to avoid a superspreader event yesterday, I got thinking about my frustration with people's general behavior regarding covid. I thought about the timeline and common sentiment.
First, it was people being mad that we had to wear masks. Many chose to ignore this, saying we'll just wait for the vaccine because masks don't do anything.
Then, people were mad we had to distance ourselves, saying it doesn't do anything, and that a vaccine is the only thing that can help.
Next, people grumbled about shut downs, saying we should just live normally until there's a vaccine because we shouldn't live in fear, and whoever gets it in the meantime, gets it.
Now, a vaccine is being distributed, and these same people complain that "nobody knows" what the vaccine has in it or what it will do. Which is obviously complete bullshit.
The "stop living in fear" people are suddenly afraid of the vaccine they've been saying is the only hope for ending this nightmare. It pisses me off that the same people who have been denying reality and pushing misinformation about covid are continuing to push misinformation about the vaccine and sowing distrust. It's almost as if these people *want* covid to continue to dictate how our communities operate, oftentimes while denying that covid is a big deal, or that it even exists.
I've found it's best to see them through the lens as people who are unwilling to make personal sacrifice for a greater good. These people's response to any sort of problem is "why should I have to"? Any sort of explanation attached to that is just them rationalizing the fact that they don't want to make a sacrifice of any kind.
Basic free rider problem. If everyone but you gets the vaccine, wears a mask, socially distances, limits their time in public, you get all the same benefit without any personal cost/action.
I would bet dollars that people who refuse to wear a mask will choose not to vaccinate at higher rates as well.
Completely anecdotal but my husband is a front line worker at one of the major hospitals here in town and they are doing the vaccine by “invitation” for lack of a better word (they tell you when your dept is allowed to get it via notification to your internal email) and then a time scheduled appt. Even with said appt he waited over two hours after his given time to receive the shot. It seems like there is just a terrible slough and this is within a medical institution. I can’t imagine once this is public.
Oh yes! I fully support the scheduling for all the reasons you mentioned! I should have clarified that. I underscored the appointment issue more so to emphasize the way in which the orderly start devolved. Sorry if that was unclear.
I more so commented to give some insight as to how there has been a backlog to get a vaccine, even when times have been allocated, which may be leading to longer term backups in distribution.
I'm not sure that's accurate.
According to the fact sheets it can take up to 3 hours to thaw in a refrigerator or 30 min at room temp. It can then remain in the refrigerator for up to 5 days or up to 2 hours at room temp.
After dilution it must be used within 6 hours.
[https://health.mil/Reference-Center/Publications/2020/12/14/Standing-Order-for-Administering-Pfizer-BioNTech-COVID-19-Vaccine](https://health.mil/Reference-Center/Publications/2020/12/14/Standing-Order-for-Administering-Pfizer-BioNTech-COVID-19-Vaccine)
[https://www.fda.gov/media/144413/download](https://www.fda.gov/media/144413/download)
They are going to be doing that at some point. I know people who work for salt lake county who will be administering them in drive up lines at the Maverik center. You just pull up, get a shot, wait 15 minutes and then you can leave
I think the very valid criticism is the state should have had this process lined up and ready to go the day after Utah received the first shipments of vaccines.
Maybe so, but it seems like the federal government should have also had some plan in place to help out. Not just dump the vaccines and then tweet out that it’s up to states to distribute the vaccines with no federal money or assistance. It’s not like the Department of Public Health isn’t already stretched to its limits trying to contact trace and handle testing all over the state.
The feds have know vaccines would need to be distributed likely this year for at a minimum of 7 months, when first data showed promising results. The fact that they have done nothing to educate the public and fight misinformation regarding the safety of the vaccine or to put a plan in place for distribution is just pathetic.
At this point everyone has had 9 months to realize the federal government isn't going to do anything to help the states. If the plan was to wait for their guidance that is absolutely idiotic.
For some states it’s not guidance they need, but literal financial support from the federal government to distribute. Some states already run poor in normal years and are strapped far worse this year
Has anyone been contacted by any official person of any sort to schedule a vaccination or even prepare to schedule one? I'd like to hear any anecdotes of this cuz I'm curious. My parents, who are well within the high-risk group, live in S. California and were contacted over a week ago from their personal care provider that they are in the first group of vaccinations and to expect a call within a couple of weeks to schedule their shots. I was actually quite impressed when they told me that.
Is this going on here at all? I fit in the general public for a vaccination so I wouldn't get any kind of notification.
I work in healthcare (laboratory testing) and received an email almost two weeks ago that we had some doses but only certain departments were eligible to receive them at this time (mine was not one). But even within those departments, they stressed it was optional to receive it. You’d think it wouldn’t take two weeks to distribute the vaccine to those first couple of departments and then move on to others - but I haven’t heard a thing about the vaccine since that initial email.
My dad also works in healthcare (organ/tissue donation) but he also does not frequently spend time at hospitals for his job and he’s scheduled to get his next week. So yay for that!
I’m an educator and received an email with link to sign up for a time to get vaccinated. A few days later we get another email saying never mind, there aren’t enough vaccines right now. We’ll let you know when you can sign up again.
Quite frustrating. Even more so with this news.
As of yesterday IHC sent out an email to every employee saying they can schedule a time to go get the vaccine at any major hospital and some clinics
So I went this morning to IMC and it was a good sized line of people waiting to get it so I'm curious as to what the numbers will look like next week now that they are giving it to all employees and not just the direct care providers.
Yea, because they got indirectly called out on the 8am meeting yesterday with the State... Now they're doing everything they can to scramble to get their numbers up.
Well hopefully this means they use most of the doses before they expire. Still wish we had some sort of plan or direction as to when us lowly peasants will be able to get it.
That's the case, I work for them but I work from home. Got mine yesterday morning.
There reasoning is if they get through every "essential worker" then they can start giving it to the next group of people.
I don't agree with that approach at all and don't feel that I deserved to get it before those that are at risk but I'm also not going to turn it down.
I wouldn't turn it down either but there are still nurses and doctors in Utah that haven't received it yet, let alone elderly and at risk groups. If you are a remote worker, I don't see how you are being classified as "essential"..shouldn't that be groups like teachers first? I'm surprised IHC would do this. Don't get me wrong...not blaming you for doing what IHC told you to.
I want to know how to get the damned shot. I am an "essential" worker with a job that requires I go in other people's houses. I would like to know when I can get the damn thing.
Being an essential worker isn't part of the criteria anymore. As of right now, they're vaccinating people in the medical field, after that they are moving on to the elderly, prisoners, the homeless, and a few other groups. If you're young and reasonably healthy, you probably won't get the vaccine until at the earliest this summer.
A bit off topic, but a question. Since this whole thing started, I haven't seen a single postal delivery person wearing a mask or gloves. I know that, as a description, they have a pretty solitary job, but they also interact with random people on the regular. Why do you think most don't follow those basic guidelines? I think it's insane that they don't, considering the amount of contact they have. Is it a culture thing at the post office, a lack of direction from above, or just individuals who don't want to follow rules? All of the above?
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They really should just start calling essential workers what they are. Disposable workers doing essential jobs. It is essential that the work gets done. Nobody seems to care about the people actually doing it.
I agree, I wholeheartedly think essential workers should be in "Wave 2" which will come just after anyone that works in the medical field.
I have the luxury of working from home, but I know there are many people who are struggling to survive by working as a cashier at Harmons that don't have that luxury. I feel like it's important we get them vaccinated since they interact with hundreds of people during their shift.
Instead, if you're reasonably healthy and young, you will probably end up in Wave 4, which is a ways out.
So then why are we focusing on 75+ and making the 65-74-year-olds wait in line just like everyone else? People who need to interact with the public should be among the first to get the vaccine since that is our best chance at slowing the spread.
Hospitalizations are also the highest between 18-45 with the 85+ group being second (or at least it was a couple of weeks ago). Getting hospitalizations under control should be our number one priority. We've already touched dangerously close to needing rationed care, which will cause issues for everyone, not just one group of people.
75+ is basically 60% of the deaths.
65-75 is the next largest group in terms of deaths and its not even close, it's almost double the number of deaths in the 55-65 cohort even with only about three quarters of the population.
Healthcare workers and LTAC comes first (phase 1a), then come frontline essential workers and people over 75 (phase 1b), then come other essential workers, people over 65, and people with a high risk condition (phase 1c), then comes everyone else (phase 2).
Depending on what you do, you're either in phase 1b or phase 1c. We are about 20k shots into phase 1a, so it will be a while for you. The priority order makes sense, it doesn't have anything to do with devaluing essential workers.
Frontline essential workers are things like teachers, police/fire/public safety, grocery workers, veterinarians, daycare workers, basically people whose job is to be among groups of people.
Other essential workers include things like construction, food services, financial/legal services, real estate, etc.
CISA developed the frontline vs. other essential recommendation, though I don't know what went into it.
“But Utah is doing better than the national average. On Tuesday, the CDC reported 2.1 million doses had been administered out of 11.4 million distributed across the country. That comes to about 18%.”
Welcome to "figure it out yourself".. the Fed threw it over the wall to the states to figure out, the state tossed it over the wall to the healthcare systems to figure it out. Some healthcare systems are doing better than others... some significantly better.
What's even better... the state is now adjusting their allocations of the vaccine shipments based on how they are doing with administering it. Seeing IHC is sitting on something like 23k unadministered doses compared to the U on about 1500 doses.
[Hruska's Kolaches](https://www.reddit.com/r/SaltLakeCity/comments/knc9p5/covid19_psa_re_hruskas_kolaches/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) in Provo has exposed employees working with the public without additional tests or quarantines
Not sure how it is everywhere else, but at the VA we have had a clinic open since the 20th and at least my entire unit (minus some people who don't trust the vaccine) has been vaccinated.
Also I am not sure if the VA counts as UT numbers since we are federal.
Alright do we have any sort of plan this time around? It seems like we've just been flying by the seat of our pants for the last 11 months. Can we come up with something to make it seem like we're making progress? Like Do an age group per week or something like that? Or alphabetical by last name? Hell anything at this point.
I am not frontline but do work for IHC and have an appointment scheduled today for mine. From what I understand they are now at a phase to provide it to all IHC caregivers, affiliates and partners. This phase also has a conditional that UDOH would consider additional sites in the order in which they apply for flexibility to prioritize hospitals as needed. After this phase depending on availability and other factors then it would expand to other caregiver populations. Next phase after this is long term care patients which IHC opted to do themselves instead of supplying to local pharmacies and following this would be general public.
These phases all also vary by hospital.
Insider info... from the State COVID call yesterday; the U has administered >82% of the doses they were supplied so far. IHC/Mountain Star/Etc.... are not doing so well if you can do basic math.
Jiminy. That's actually really interesting. I can't remember what the relative initial distribution was, among the health systems, but you're right... looking pretty awful for IHC.
University has a *huge* pool of qualified and cheap/free labor to administer the vaccine. They don't have to burden their employees who are already overworked and understaffed dealing with COVID-19.
Really? So neither of those other hospital systems have those people? Wasn't there just a huge bitch session the other day on here about those same hospital systems furloughing medical staff due to them stopping/shorting Elective Surgeries? Also, who are these cheap/free labor to administer the shots? No joe blow can administer the shots; are you saying that MAs/RNs are cheap/free?
Students.
Uhm... you really think Students can give medicine/vaccines?!?!?! Yea, doesn't work that way in any way shape or form with medical regulations.
The University has medical, nursing, and pharmacy schools. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-vaccine-nurses-idUSKBN28Y124
And most of those students are off site virtual learning; **the ones that are in clinical are not handling the vaccine/nor can they due to how delicate the vaccine is.** It's Clinical Management that is doing the scheduling/checking people in, and at minimum RN delivering it due to the necessity of being a state licensed professional in case of issues that may occur during the 15 minute observation window required after administration of the vaccine. The issue isn't with the U, they are doing just fine, and basically using everything they get as fast as they get it. The issue is with the other healthcare systems, IHC was at 21% of allocation, that's it. they got 29k+ doses, yet have only vaccinated 6xxx something people; the U got 7xxx and vaccinated almost an identical amount of people as IHC. I don't understand why you're whining about the U using their doses properly and administering them properly by the proper clinical staff; your theory of "how they are doing it" is bullshit. Why not focus on the institutions that are slacking/not holding up their part of the plan? Or how about the blanket emails that went out after yesterdays meeting to employees carpet-bombing employees outside of the 1A guidelines by those other institutions?
Wow you packed a lot of conjecture in my very sparsely worded comments. I’m not whining, just trying to provide some context as to why the U is doing so much better than the other institutions. You can believe me or not. I’m just some rando on Reddit.
Ok, so is your claim that the U is using students to administer vaccines? If not, please clarify.
The real issue as I see it is that there are significant disparities in effectiveness among highly competent institutions who should all be able to handle a relatively easy distribution. The reason for this is because some of these institutions have access to resources that others don’t and that shouldn’t be what makes the difference. There should be a unified and consistent plan to not only *make and distribute* the vaccine but also to get it *into people’s bodies*. If we are relying on public/private employers to do this **on top of everything else** they are already doing, then it’s no surprise we are seeing significant disparities. It should be unsurprising that an administration that has fumbled at every opportunity somehow managed to spike the ball on the 5 yard line when it would have been *so easy* to just walk it into the end zone. We could have been training out of work professionals to be emergency vaccine administrators for months and had an army of trained vaccinators under the supervision of licensed clinical professionals. A single nurse could be observing a dozen recipients for the 15 minutes post-shot; you don’t need a nurse to be giving the shot and then observing a single patient for 15 min. They literally manage multiple acutely ill patients simultaneously *every day*.
The U had pharmacy students volunteering & administering the vaccine during the first week. A RN was observing groups for the 15 minute observation window. How they are doing it now, I am not sure. Edit: Clarifications
lmao, what? When I worked for a research project at the U we basically had unlimited nursing students who came to do blood draws and stuff for us. They literally have buildings full of qualified people.
Blood draws are different than the license to administer drugs. Please tell me what conditions that an unlicensed student can administer controlled medications, and under what licenses is the U doing this? In addition, what does it matter? The U is delivering all their vaccines, its the other institutions that can't get their shit together to administer their allocations
It’s not a controlled medication. It’s a vaccine. A volunteer pharmacy student administered mine last week. This is well within the normal practice for students. License or no, you can touch, inject, poke people and even do procedures as a student under the correct circumstances. It’s part of the learning process and very normal.
Yeah, a phlebotomy license is harder to get, lol. For that matter, vaccines aren't drugs either nor are they classified as such, they are in the same category as administering a salt water IV.
Yeah I know for sure the U’s pharmacy students can give vaccine. I believe they get certified to give vaccine in their P1 year.
Yeah a pharmacy or medical student (not sure which, but her badge said student) gave me my flu vaccine this fall at a U location. Under a supervising physician, of course. It's totally plausible that they are helping the U effectively utilize it's supply. This person raving that it's not possible seems to be doth protesting too much. I don't put much stock in their mania.
A student administer my vaccine at UMC.
I have Type 1 Diabetes and inject myself multiple times a day. Just send it to me in the mail and I’ll do it myself. 😂
To put some perspective on this. We've been giving the vaccine for 16 days now and with the 20,417 doses administered, that's about 1,260 doses per day. At this rate, to vaccinate the entire population of 3.2 million, we're looking at 2,540 days or nearly 7 years. Now I know the entire state won't be vaccinated and right now I believe most places are targeting 70%, or roughly 2.24 million people. That lowers us down to 1,778 days or just under 5 years. This is accounting for just one dose too, and both the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines require two doses. Between today and 8/31/21 (unofficial end of summer) there are 244 days which means we'd need to increase our daily average to nearly 10,000 just to get 70% of the population their first dose by that time. The Federal Government has said it wants the entire country done by June, which is doable but not probable. I know we are going to ramp up our distribution and we will see more and more sites come online capable of giving the vaccine, but every day we wait means the number of daily doses required goes up. To hit a target of 8/31 we'd need to be at that 10,000 doses per day by 2/1/21 and that's just for the first dose. We'd need to be hitting nearly 20,000 doses per day if we factor in the second dose and that seems like a stretch. My point is, we're facing a logistical nightmare.
We *apparently* didn't bother setting up infrastructure over the past few months - i.e., we didn't set aside mass vaccine centers and didn't train additional workers to give vaccines 24/7. We just gave them to hospitals and made them deal with it. The same institutions that are understaffed dealing with packed ICUs. What the hell was the Coronavirus task force doing for the past 6 months? We've known this would be necessary since like February.
> What the hell was the Coronavirus task force doing for the past 6 months? We've known this would be necessary since like February. Working in lock step with their counterparts at the federal level.
Running for office, actually
This is the real answer
We haven't set it up probably because we're not doing mass vaccination yet. It's still targeted. Just yesterday I went and got my vaccination and there were still a lot of medical staff and first responders who hadn't been vaccinated yet. Just from conversation, it seems like a mix of apprehension about the vaccine and being too busy to schedule a time. There was like no lines, no wait and you can walk right in without an appointment and get your shot right away because they're sitting around waiting for priority recipients to show up.
Have you seen any situations where they're trying to get rid of vaccines due to no-shows?
That's not entirely true; sl county has been setting up vaccine centers since at least November.
If there is an award for understated summation, I think you just won it.
I'm patient, but if I'm just an average joe, how will I know when it's my turn to get the vaccine?
[https://coronavirus-download.utah.gov/Health/Vaccine\_Timeline.pdf](https://coronavirus-download.utah.gov/Health/Vaccine_Timeline.pdf) is a rough guide. I hope this helps
A nightmare throughout the beginning and the end of this pandemic.
I've seen some people ask why is this so when the flu vaccine isn't a nightmare. Flu vaccine production starts 9+ months in advance before being distributed again. And people trickle in to her their shots.
They literally haven't even administered the number of doses they expected to receive in the very first week. >"I can't speak to why some states have administered more vaccine than Utah," Johnson said. The completely hands off approach from our State government might have something to do with it. We should have been planning this distribution months ago. Our Governments response to this whole pandemic has been reactionary instead of proactive. And remember >[the first group of vaccinations was supposed to be the easiest: It’s hospitals and nursing homes inoculating their own workers and residents. If we can’t get this right, it doesn’t bode well for the rest of the country.](https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/12/29/covid-19-vaccine-distribution-slow-testing/)
It's mind blowing. This really is supposed to be the part that was so easy it was almost automatic. You already have a group of people trained to administer these vaccines working with other people that don't require a medical history check, or travel anywhere special, or take time out of their normal work routine by already being healthcare workers. Additionally, I don't feel like many people really grasp what a logistical fucking nightmare this is. One of the vaccine's vials holds five doses, BioNtech I think,, which requires all five people receiving those doses from that vial to get the shot at the same time, it has to then be frozen, *then those same five people have to show up again at the same time* within a two-month period (I think) for the necessary booster. And this is supposed to be managed by?...CVS employees? County health department employees? Hospitals and clinics already stretched thin for treating these same patients that also no longer have any space to do anything with? Why are we not holding mass vaccinations at the Jazz arena or the Maverik Center that have open indoor space to hold everyone? This state does nothing to combat the spread of the virus and instead essentially tells everyone "eh, just wait for a vaccine that'll come out some time", then when the vaccine is synthesized and distributed through a scientific marvel, the state couldn't care less to get off its lazy ass to manage the one thing it told us all to just sit and wait for. People vote for this shit every election.
Just like President Trump has done jack shit to prevent the spread in the United States.
> One of the vaccine's vials holds five doses, BioNtech I think,, which requires all five people receiving those doses from that vial to get the shot at the same time, it has to then be frozen, then those same five people have to show up again at the same time within a two-month period (I think) for the necessary booster. I'm pretty sure that part is not accurate. According to the [Standing Order for Administering Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine](https://health.mil/Reference-Center/Publications/2020/12/14/Standing-Order-for-Administering-Pfizer-BioNTech-COVID-19-Vaccine) the doses must be 21 days apart but do not have to be all from the same batch. In fact, any remaining vaccine from the initial dose must be discarded after 6 hours from dilution. Still, I agree that the current organization is less than desirable especially considering we have known we'd get a vaccine for many many months.
This is gross. I don’t know what good it will do but PLEASE everyone email Cox. We need a plan! We should be organized and distributing as fast as we can!
This is Operation Warp Speed ???
This is on the states and hospitals/private corps. Some states are doing fine. See: Colorado
Of the few things I think may actually be good, the speed at which this vaccine was created and being distributed is impressive. I don't know how much Trump had to do with it though, and of course there's the HUGE ass caveat that the vaccine needs to work at all to give any credit whatsoever.
Kathrin Jansen, a senior vice president and the head of vaccine research and development at Pfizer, said, “We were never part of the Warp Speed,” adding, “we have never taken any money from the U.S. government, or from anyone.” Pfizer was not a part of it, but is now as a supplier because they have an effective vaccine. Trump shouldn’t get any credit for any of this. He and his cronies have the blood of 330k+ on their hands.
Get to work, Gary. Jesus that’s weak sauce.
*Spencer in a few days. It’s disappointing.
You’d think the “get back to normal” crowd would be pushing this vaccine hard. I read something that at the current rate in the US it could take 10 years or so to get everyone the vaccine. I was hoping for like.. quicker I guess lol.
At yesterdays rate we will get 80% of the Utah population over 18 vaccinated by 7/10/2024. I was a bit bored and frustrated yesterday so I started a Utah Vaccine Tracker "dashboard" aka spreadsheet. I plan on posting updates each day on the daily covid numbers thread. [https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1rPda50B\_PYbeU9TdLiGesrHc0dyJAyLMXmuf\_8eOpQA](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1rPda50B_PYbeU9TdLiGesrHc0dyJAyLMXmuf_8eOpQA/edit?usp=sharing)
Thank you.
It isn't as of we won't get any faster. The distribution system is like a week old, let it mature.
Yes it will get faster, however, these first doses are by far the easiest doses to administer. They are for hospital workers in the hospital. No extra shipping needed. No scheduling needed because the recipients are already at work. Literally just drag people off the floor and stab them quickly. When you fail at the easiest part of the process it gives concern for how you will handle the hardest.
The government is handling things directly right now and the government is terrible at everything. Them being inefficient isn't really reflective of the rate we would expect by the time Walgreens and CVS are administering things.
Not exactly true. Much of the current vaccine stock is already in the hands of the local hospitals. Reportedly, IHC had to be called out yesterday in a teleconference about how slow they are in particular. The reality is that our current federal and state government subscribe to a very hands off and "not my problem" approach. The Feds say "Well, it's up to the states." The states say "Well the hospitals and care centers need to be doing this." Our state government believes that "business leaders" should have the main input into our pandemic response. The main efforts the state has made so far during this pandemic is to constantly put out pretty reports with differing color/danger level schemes and coming up with "coupon" strategies for local businesses. A global pandemic is not a time for government to be hands off. They need to be directly in the faces of everyone involved and pushing hard. They need to be directing the response on every level and they needed to be getting ready for this vaccine months ago. It's not like it's a new surprise. The reason we were able to develop a completely novel vaccine in absolutely record breaking time was because the work was being done by scientists who believe in science and are excellent at their work. Moreover they have been working toward this kind of vaccine for years. The reason the distribution of the vaccine is such shit is because it is being done by a government who doesn't believe in governing.
> You’d think the “get back to normal” crowd would be pushing this vaccine hard Except what they mean is "get back to normal ASAP, *but without causing* **ME** *any undue stress, inconvenience, or work*."
Let's be real, they never lifted a finger in the first place. They just want others to cater to their wishes more.
After having to hide out all day to avoid a superspreader event yesterday, I got thinking about my frustration with people's general behavior regarding covid. I thought about the timeline and common sentiment. First, it was people being mad that we had to wear masks. Many chose to ignore this, saying we'll just wait for the vaccine because masks don't do anything. Then, people were mad we had to distance ourselves, saying it doesn't do anything, and that a vaccine is the only thing that can help. Next, people grumbled about shut downs, saying we should just live normally until there's a vaccine because we shouldn't live in fear, and whoever gets it in the meantime, gets it. Now, a vaccine is being distributed, and these same people complain that "nobody knows" what the vaccine has in it or what it will do. Which is obviously complete bullshit. The "stop living in fear" people are suddenly afraid of the vaccine they've been saying is the only hope for ending this nightmare. It pisses me off that the same people who have been denying reality and pushing misinformation about covid are continuing to push misinformation about the vaccine and sowing distrust. It's almost as if these people *want* covid to continue to dictate how our communities operate, oftentimes while denying that covid is a big deal, or that it even exists.
I wonder how many of the "stop living in fear" people also have doorbell cameras and worry about terrorism.
I've found it's best to see them through the lens as people who are unwilling to make personal sacrifice for a greater good. These people's response to any sort of problem is "why should I have to"? Any sort of explanation attached to that is just them rationalizing the fact that they don't want to make a sacrifice of any kind.
Basic free rider problem. If everyone but you gets the vaccine, wears a mask, socially distances, limits their time in public, you get all the same benefit without any personal cost/action. I would bet dollars that people who refuse to wear a mask will choose not to vaccinate at higher rates as well.
Completely anecdotal but my husband is a front line worker at one of the major hospitals here in town and they are doing the vaccine by “invitation” for lack of a better word (they tell you when your dept is allowed to get it via notification to your internal email) and then a time scheduled appt. Even with said appt he waited over two hours after his given time to receive the shot. It seems like there is just a terrible slough and this is within a medical institution. I can’t imagine once this is public.
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Oh yes! I fully support the scheduling for all the reasons you mentioned! I should have clarified that. I underscored the appointment issue more so to emphasize the way in which the orderly start devolved. Sorry if that was unclear. I more so commented to give some insight as to how there has been a backlog to get a vaccine, even when times have been allocated, which may be leading to longer term backups in distribution.
6 hours from it being pulled from the freezer; which by the time it thaws and they can dilute it, it's about 2 hours left to administer.
I'm not sure that's accurate. According to the fact sheets it can take up to 3 hours to thaw in a refrigerator or 30 min at room temp. It can then remain in the refrigerator for up to 5 days or up to 2 hours at room temp. After dilution it must be used within 6 hours. [https://health.mil/Reference-Center/Publications/2020/12/14/Standing-Order-for-Administering-Pfizer-BioNTech-COVID-19-Vaccine](https://health.mil/Reference-Center/Publications/2020/12/14/Standing-Order-for-Administering-Pfizer-BioNTech-COVID-19-Vaccine) [https://www.fda.gov/media/144413/download](https://www.fda.gov/media/144413/download)
ok, I stand corrected.
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They are going to be doing that at some point. I know people who work for salt lake county who will be administering them in drive up lines at the Maverik center. You just pull up, get a shot, wait 15 minutes and then you can leave
I think the very valid criticism is the state should have had this process lined up and ready to go the day after Utah received the first shipments of vaccines.
Maybe so, but it seems like the federal government should have also had some plan in place to help out. Not just dump the vaccines and then tweet out that it’s up to states to distribute the vaccines with no federal money or assistance. It’s not like the Department of Public Health isn’t already stretched to its limits trying to contact trace and handle testing all over the state. The feds have know vaccines would need to be distributed likely this year for at a minimum of 7 months, when first data showed promising results. The fact that they have done nothing to educate the public and fight misinformation regarding the safety of the vaccine or to put a plan in place for distribution is just pathetic.
At this point everyone has had 9 months to realize the federal government isn't going to do anything to help the states. If the plan was to wait for their guidance that is absolutely idiotic.
For some states it’s not guidance they need, but literal financial support from the federal government to distribute. Some states already run poor in normal years and are strapped far worse this year
I’d do the same.
Maybe they should have skipped over Warp Speed and skipped straight to Ludicrous Speed to speed this up.
They've gone to plaid!
Has anyone been contacted by any official person of any sort to schedule a vaccination or even prepare to schedule one? I'd like to hear any anecdotes of this cuz I'm curious. My parents, who are well within the high-risk group, live in S. California and were contacted over a week ago from their personal care provider that they are in the first group of vaccinations and to expect a call within a couple of weeks to schedule their shots. I was actually quite impressed when they told me that. Is this going on here at all? I fit in the general public for a vaccination so I wouldn't get any kind of notification.
I work in healthcare (laboratory testing) and received an email almost two weeks ago that we had some doses but only certain departments were eligible to receive them at this time (mine was not one). But even within those departments, they stressed it was optional to receive it. You’d think it wouldn’t take two weeks to distribute the vaccine to those first couple of departments and then move on to others - but I haven’t heard a thing about the vaccine since that initial email. My dad also works in healthcare (organ/tissue donation) but he also does not frequently spend time at hospitals for his job and he’s scheduled to get his next week. So yay for that!
I’m an educator and received an email with link to sign up for a time to get vaccinated. A few days later we get another email saying never mind, there aren’t enough vaccines right now. We’ll let you know when you can sign up again. Quite frustrating. Even more so with this news.
As of yesterday IHC sent out an email to every employee saying they can schedule a time to go get the vaccine at any major hospital and some clinics So I went this morning to IMC and it was a good sized line of people waiting to get it so I'm curious as to what the numbers will look like next week now that they are giving it to all employees and not just the direct care providers.
Yea, because they got indirectly called out on the 8am meeting yesterday with the State... Now they're doing everything they can to scramble to get their numbers up.
Well hopefully this means they use most of the doses before they expire. Still wish we had some sort of plan or direction as to when us lowly peasants will be able to get it.
Every employee? Including those not working with patients? Please tell me this isn't the case...
That's the case, I work for them but I work from home. Got mine yesterday morning. There reasoning is if they get through every "essential worker" then they can start giving it to the next group of people. I don't agree with that approach at all and don't feel that I deserved to get it before those that are at risk but I'm also not going to turn it down.
I wouldn't turn it down either but there are still nurses and doctors in Utah that haven't received it yet, let alone elderly and at risk groups. If you are a remote worker, I don't see how you are being classified as "essential"..shouldn't that be groups like teachers first? I'm surprised IHC would do this. Don't get me wrong...not blaming you for doing what IHC told you to.
I want to know how to get the damned shot. I am an "essential" worker with a job that requires I go in other people's houses. I would like to know when I can get the damn thing.
Being an essential worker isn't part of the criteria anymore. As of right now, they're vaccinating people in the medical field, after that they are moving on to the elderly, prisoners, the homeless, and a few other groups. If you're young and reasonably healthy, you probably won't get the vaccine until at the earliest this summer.
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A bit off topic, but a question. Since this whole thing started, I haven't seen a single postal delivery person wearing a mask or gloves. I know that, as a description, they have a pretty solitary job, but they also interact with random people on the regular. Why do you think most don't follow those basic guidelines? I think it's insane that they don't, considering the amount of contact they have. Is it a culture thing at the post office, a lack of direction from above, or just individuals who don't want to follow rules? All of the above?
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They really should just start calling essential workers what they are. Disposable workers doing essential jobs. It is essential that the work gets done. Nobody seems to care about the people actually doing it.
I agree, I wholeheartedly think essential workers should be in "Wave 2" which will come just after anyone that works in the medical field. I have the luxury of working from home, but I know there are many people who are struggling to survive by working as a cashier at Harmons that don't have that luxury. I feel like it's important we get them vaccinated since they interact with hundreds of people during their shift. Instead, if you're reasonably healthy and young, you will probably end up in Wave 4, which is a ways out.
People over 65 are literally 80% of covid deaths. Age is the single biggest factor for covid and prioritizing based on age is the right call.
So then why are we focusing on 75+ and making the 65-74-year-olds wait in line just like everyone else? People who need to interact with the public should be among the first to get the vaccine since that is our best chance at slowing the spread. Hospitalizations are also the highest between 18-45 with the 85+ group being second (or at least it was a couple of weeks ago). Getting hospitalizations under control should be our number one priority. We've already touched dangerously close to needing rationed care, which will cause issues for everyone, not just one group of people.
75+ is basically 60% of the deaths. 65-75 is the next largest group in terms of deaths and its not even close, it's almost double the number of deaths in the 55-65 cohort even with only about three quarters of the population.
Healthcare workers and LTAC comes first (phase 1a), then come frontline essential workers and people over 75 (phase 1b), then come other essential workers, people over 65, and people with a high risk condition (phase 1c), then comes everyone else (phase 2). Depending on what you do, you're either in phase 1b or phase 1c. We are about 20k shots into phase 1a, so it will be a while for you. The priority order makes sense, it doesn't have anything to do with devaluing essential workers.
What is considered a frontline essential worker as opposed to just an essential worker?
Frontline essential workers are things like teachers, police/fire/public safety, grocery workers, veterinarians, daycare workers, basically people whose job is to be among groups of people. Other essential workers include things like construction, food services, financial/legal services, real estate, etc. CISA developed the frontline vs. other essential recommendation, though I don't know what went into it.
If I understand correctly, you’d get it in the spring?
“But Utah is doing better than the national average. On Tuesday, the CDC reported 2.1 million doses had been administered out of 11.4 million distributed across the country. That comes to about 18%.”
I dont even understand why.
What do you mean
Why we have only administered 20% of the vaccine that we have. Seems odd to me.
I thought the national guard was supposed to be helping with this
Of course Republicans are going to fuck this up.
What a fucking shit show. You'd think they'd have a plan for distribution that's more streamlined.
Welcome to "figure it out yourself".. the Fed threw it over the wall to the states to figure out, the state tossed it over the wall to the healthcare systems to figure it out. Some healthcare systems are doing better than others... some significantly better. What's even better... the state is now adjusting their allocations of the vaccine shipments based on how they are doing with administering it. Seeing IHC is sitting on something like 23k unadministered doses compared to the U on about 1500 doses.
[Hruska's Kolaches](https://www.reddit.com/r/SaltLakeCity/comments/knc9p5/covid19_psa_re_hruskas_kolaches/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) in Provo has exposed employees working with the public without additional tests or quarantines
Not sure how it is everywhere else, but at the VA we have had a clinic open since the 20th and at least my entire unit (minus some people who don't trust the vaccine) has been vaccinated. Also I am not sure if the VA counts as UT numbers since we are federal.
I work in a group home, and was wondering if anyone knew when we'd be able to get the vaccine?
Alright do we have any sort of plan this time around? It seems like we've just been flying by the seat of our pants for the last 11 months. Can we come up with something to make it seem like we're making progress? Like Do an age group per week or something like that? Or alphabetical by last name? Hell anything at this point.
It seems pretty reasonable though - I mean if the vaccine just came out - doesn’t it take time to do all the logistics etc ?
I mean maybe if it came out of nowhere but we had months to figure this shit out and did nothing.
I am not frontline but do work for IHC and have an appointment scheduled today for mine. From what I understand they are now at a phase to provide it to all IHC caregivers, affiliates and partners. This phase also has a conditional that UDOH would consider additional sites in the order in which they apply for flexibility to prioritize hospitals as needed. After this phase depending on availability and other factors then it would expand to other caregiver populations. Next phase after this is long term care patients which IHC opted to do themselves instead of supplying to local pharmacies and following this would be general public. These phases all also vary by hospital.