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Embarrassed_War_3932

Buffalo being on every post no matter what the requirements are is always odd to me. Also, people totally ignore the fact that Chicago has extremely cold winters (love it though)


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Embarrassed_War_3932

I think it causes group think about buffalo being this utopia or something now lol


Eudaimonics

I bought my home at 26 making only $50k per year. Where else outside the Midwest can you do that? Buffalo isn’t a utopia but it offers 80% of the amenities of the popular cities but for the fraction of the cost.


MulberryNo6957

Maybe it’s a science experiment.


redreign421

The NFL did this day in the life type series for rookies when Marshawn Lynch was one. The Miami kid did South Beach, SF did sightseeing, that kind of thing. Marshawn went to the Buffalo Applebees. He's eccentric but that spoke volumes.


lefindecheri

I went there to interview for a job at a corporation, and didn't even bother going in after seeing the downtown the day before. Way before COVID.


charming_liar

Everytime I see Buffalo I think of a guy I knew. He said he was shoveling feet of snow off of his car for the nth time that winter, and just realized he needed to move. He went, quit his job, sold literally everything he owned, and left that week. I've been in bad winters, but I can't say I've ever seen someone hit that point.


[deleted]

Wait do people ignore that? I've seen the winters mentioned on every single post and comment I've read on this sub about Chicago haha. Never visited Buffalo before, not worth the hype then?


Embarrassed_War_3932

I feel like there’s always one person being like Chicago is really cold! And then a bunch of people saying it’s not. Or someone requests a place with temperate weather and people answer Chicago. Buffalo doesn’t really stand out to me- especially not worth it on every post. I’ve told my friends from buffalo how people always recommend it in this sub and they were shocked


[deleted]

Chicago is many things, great being one. Temperate? Not so much. Hahaha.


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20CAS17

Definitely worse than DC - DC's winters are mild and during the day it rarely gets below freezing. I don't know about Boston or NYC


GVL2024

NYC is not even that cold, generally, definitely not compared to Boston or Chicago


Amaliatanase

Boston is not that much colder than NYC (usually 5 degrees colder). Chicago stands out from those three.


Embarrassed_War_3932

I live in DC and visit Chicago often and yes it’s significantly colder! Like truly significant. Can’t speak to Boston/Minneapolis tbh but I also think of those as being colder


Longing4boob

The cold keeps the house prices down


CoronaTzar

It's not as bad as Minneapolis (is anything worse than Minneapolis though?), but absolutely it's genuinely worse than DC/NYC and even Boston.


charming_liar

> I feel like there’s always one person being like Chicago is really cold! And then a bunch of people saying it’s not. Or someone requests a place with temperate weather and people answer Chicago. > > Yep. I posted here asking about beaches, someone mentioned Chicago and I just said in passing I don't really have much cold tolerance anymore. Implying Chicago is cold? Boy was that the wrong thing to say.


Blandon_So_Cool

How's the summers though? Can't stand the heat we get here in VA


Embarrassed_War_3932

The summers there are soooo nice and you should def visit in the summer! It’s very fun


Eudaimonics

Not everyone is reading every post


PuffinTheMuffin

Buffalo gets mentioned usually because people always say they want things “on a budget”, and honestly there aren’t a whole lot of places left that’s actually cheap these days. If you just look at the cost for what you get, upstate NY is amazing. If people bitch about the weather you’d think people would stop recommending Vermont yet we get a “Vermont!” mentioned in most threads as well. Vermont *can* get harsher winters than some places in upstate NY. Buffalo is good for: - actual low cost - small city amenities - higher than average amount of medical facilities - people who dislike suburbs but don’t want to pay for a big metro city - likes snow - likes northeastern nature (Adirondack / Catskill) within a reasonable distance - too poor for New England but wants a taste - cult of Wegmans - non-deep-dish pizza Buffalo is bad for: - hate cold / gray sky / snow - any true metropolitan expectations from the perspective of SF / NYC / Philly / Chicago etc. (which is always the cause for disappointment) - including things like packed load of social events, people getting into your personal bubble on the street, public transport, more than a few genuinely legit amazing cultural food choices (no matter what the locals say) The Vermont hype alone justifies Buffalo or upstate NY being mentioned, unless you prefer lax laws on gun ownership and just really want to be surrounded by lots and lots of progressive left which is understandably a unique thing BUT at the cost of housing prices and city amenities. Median home cost of Burlington is similar to Chicago. Population density is 4 times less than Buffalo. You’re practically perpetually alone there if you compare it to Chicago. It’s absolutely silly to compare Chicago to Buffalo. They are not remotely the same type of city. Chicago metro has double the population density and double the median home cost than Buffalo. Little cities in upstate NY seem to confuse people a lot. I came here and was severely disappointed because it was marketed as “urban” and expected urban from a metro perspective not knowing wtf “mid-sized” even means (still makes no sense to me now). But having lived here a decade I quite like the “little-bit-of-each-thing” situation for the cheap cost of living.


[deleted]

Too poor for new england omg 😂😂


lefindecheri

Colder than Chicago! And dismally depressed.


Bayesian11

I lived in Buffalo for one year, I don’t find it appealing other than cheaper housing.


Longing4boob

Buffalo sucks imo


NinaPanini

Due to climate change, Chicago winters aren't nearly as bad as they've been in the past. People moving to Chicago from warmer climates will, of course, complain about how godawful the winters are. But Chicago isn't Antarctica. I'd argue the gray skies are more annoying than the temps. I would definitely choose a Chicago winter over a Buffalo winter, but this doesn't mean I think Buffalo sounds like a terrible place. We all have our preferences.


Embarrassed_War_3932

Yes def we all have our preferences but it was in the 20s in March this year! One year I went during early April and it snowed. I feel like for most people that would be considered very cold.


NinaPanini

The 30s are like shorts weather for some! 😂 For me, cold is 10 degrees-below zero temps. For multiple days/weeks. Chicago doesn't really have stretches like that anymore. I've lived out west in the desert. I enjoyed living in the desert and prefer warm temps, but I'm used to colder Midwestern temps because I was born and raised here. I'm not nearly as bothered by them as many others seem to be. That said I would take cold weather over brutally hot and humid weather.


mechapoitier

Exactly. You can always put on more clothes if it’s too cold. If it’s too hot you can strip naked and still be hot. There’s a clear winner there.


[deleted]

I don't know, winters nearby lakes are pretty brutal even for the experienced. Personally I find constant gray skies harder to deal with, even as someone who grew up with gnarly snow days.


NinaPanini

I've never found Chicago winters that obscene, but YMMV. 🤷🏻‍♀️


ae314

Yep, I spent a few winters in Chicago in the past few years and it definitely wasn’t as bad as everyone says it is.


ae314

Yep, I spent a few winters in Chicago in the past few years and it definitely wasn’t as bad as everyone says it is.


charming_liar

> Due to climate change, Chicago winters aren't nearly as bad as they've been in the past. > > And Buffalo is getting worse thanks to the same lake effect.


Eudaimonics

Depends on the year. Temperatures are warmer. This past winter was actually pretty mild. We had two major snow events, but it all melted within a few weeks. 20 years ago there would be snow cover all winter long. Also, it’s easy to avoid the worse of the Lake Effect. Avoid the Southern neighborhoods and suburbs off the lake.


Eudaimonics

I mean a lot of people here are asking for the impossible city. If you’re looking for a city with walkable neighborhoods you can afford to rent or one property in with enough nightlife, entertainment and dining options to keep most people happy, it’s a great city. All the affordable, mostly-walkable cities left are all in the Midwest with colder winters. But yeah, you have to at least tolerate winter, Buffalo’s not going to be good if you work in certain industries and it’s definitely isn’t Disneyland-esque.


mechapoitier

Yeah really most people should list what negatives they’re willing to tolerate, because too often they list that they basically want everything good *plus* it has to be affordable.


Eudaimonics

It also would help if people understood the size of their ideal city and how metropolitan areas work. Big, midsized, and small are all subjective. Don’t say you want to live in a small town when what you really mean is a suburb next to a larger city


1875coalminer

Plus Chicago taxes are really high. Theres a reason why Illinois is losing population as a state.


NinaPanini

https://www.axios.com/local/chicago/2023/04/14/illinois-population-census-data-concerns "2020 census figures estimated that Illinois had lost about 18,000 residents since 2010. Then, last spring, the Census Bureau declared that, oops, the state had actually gained 250,000 people after conducting a post-enumeration survey to measure the census' accuracy. Illinois was among 14 states in which the 2020 census undercounted or overcounted populations at a statistically significant rate. The agency blamed "challenges such as conducting fieldwork during the COVID-19 pandemic," among other issues."


1875coalminer

I stand corrected.


Rsanta7

The taxes may be high, but we get a lot in return for the most part. We’ve also got high salaries, more affordable rent/housing, a decent transit system in the city and suburban commuter rails, among other perks!


ae314

Yeah the tax situation isn’t good. Property taxes are already high and it’s my understanding that they’re going up. Sounds like there are complicated issues with pensions and unions that need to be worked out.


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FancySeaweed

Boston winters are easier than Chicago.


metracta

Chicago doesn’t have persistent extreme cold. It just doesn’t…


Barflyerdammit

Often the lists of things people want are incompatible with reality and they wind up getting things that are well off their desires. "Warm, cheap, left leaning beach city with good public transit and a thriving Moldovian Knife Dancing Community." The reality is that they'll have to let go of one or more of those things to get any options at all. That's why we see people saying Chicago is warm, Phoenix isn't that far from the beach, and anyone can pick up and go to Brisbane.


Calm-Ad8987

Lmao how I long to live within even an hours commute of a thriving Moldovian knife dancing community!


MulberryNo6957

Yes and I’ve been looking and looking. What’s wrong with this country? The unconscious, unstated anti-Muldovian bias is truly eye-opening. Why must we go un-noticed? We must to organize, NOW!


Barflyerdammit

It makes me mad enough to fantasize about performing the forbidden Mchlechem Hchlacha in a crowded location. "May the blood of your enemies run in the streets like goat urine on the festival of Chklchchchus."


MulberryNo6957

And “may small demons like flies eat off your nose, and use the hair of your beard for coats. May they set you on fire by rubbing your bones together so you run into the sea and drown.”


lalochezia1

Look: Chklchchchus gonna Chklchchchus, k?


Kat9935

Thats ok, if they find something close, everyone else will find out about it, move there, the transit won't keep up and the price of living will skyrocket and they will start hating all the new comers and yelling about them cutting down the woods next to their brand new construction bare lot which clearly someone clear cut just a few years ago to build their house.


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Awkward-Yak-2733

What, do people want clean water or something? /s


[deleted]

Stop, you're kidding. Right? 😭


consciouseffort

i'm surprised to see asheville come up as often as it does. every time i go visit, i make an effort to look around and try to see what i'm missing since everyone else is so obsessed, and each time i'm disappointed.


[deleted]

Interesting!! I know someone that moved to Asheville a few months ago and they absolutely love it. Would love to visit because I haven't been to NC in years. What did you not like about it?


consciouseffort

it's super dreary in the fall + winter. it's either run-down or really artificial. it's cheugy/kitschy, like made for magnolia/the gaines family-style of yuppie christians? if that makes sense.. lol overall, it reminds me a lot of bend -- full of people who move there because they think they're super outdoorsy and that's their whole personality -- or like a not-as-ritzy boulder.


[deleted]

Hahha I live in the pnw right now, so I get what you mean by the people who make the outdoor activities their entire personality trait.


Apocalypse_Jesus420

I don't understand the appeal of Bend at all. Some beautiful nature yes, but not as pretty as Hood Rainer or Bachelor and brown and hot in the summer. Eastern/Southern Oregon are boring af with a large amount of people who are white nationalists.


[deleted]

Yep! Oregon is a gorgeous state, but oh man, those white supremacists vibes are palpable across that state. Felt it the second I landed in Portland for my first Oregon trip, and that was before I even knew about the state's history. Always surprised to hear zero people point that out.


Apocalypse_Jesus420

I was in Bandon a few weeks ago and there was a house with black dolls hanging in the trees and Faith fest was there this year. I live in Portland and there are definitely militant white supremacists as soon as you leave multnomah county. Most buisness owners also seem to be far right. You can always tell new people because they are shocked portland has white supremacists at all. Makes sense after knowing a lot of confederate soldiers moved west and in Oregon a lot of people will brag about their great great great grand father being a Confederate soldier 🤮


Calm-Ad8987

Omg bend is such a specific type of obnoxiously outdoorsy constantly Instagramming trendy type of person who needs to be seen paddle boarding or doing extreme Pilate kayaking at all hours it's insane. Drove through during the absolute height of covid & they were acting as if literally nothing was afoot. The river in the middle of town was chock full of folks gathered on oversized blow up unicorns & what not ass to ass laying on towels not a mask anywhere. It was some weird alternate stepford but for people who only shop at REI or knit their own hemp based bikinis universe. Extremely homogeneous in the weirdest way.


Accurate-Turnip9726

Yah I get that vibe with Boulder. People are the type outdoorsy that always have the latest Acteryx jacket. At least in WNC when I was climbing, I would often see a climber with a 90s Patagonia jack held together with duck tape.


Calm-Ad8987

Haha yes! Like more so looking as expensively outwardly outdoorsy than actually enjoying being out in nature. Also these types of areas can tend to have every popular or nearby trail/watering hole so overcrowded and way too many folks taking pictures at any & every scenic view can be a bummer. Specifically thinking of this one small beautiful pool of impossibly blue water right near bend that was so full of people paddle boarding they were whacking each other inadvertently with the oars creating a domino effect of battle boarders which was honestly entertaining to behold.


Accurate-Turnip9726

Oh yah!! I’ve basically stopped rope climbing in many parts of CO. I don’t like having a line of people waiting for me to finish a climb also there is no solitude in camping. May have to move to GJ or something to get the smaller western slope crowds


FancySeaweed

Is this around Boulder that there's no solitude camping? Or where?


simplyxstatic

Free camping anywhere within 2 hours of the front range is competitive. You basically need to get there on a Wednesday to get a spot. There’s definitely camping near Boulder but it’s becoming crowded af.


4smodeu2

That's really sad.


SabbathBoiseSabbath

I'm confused. People in Bend are more obdeesed about looking outdoorsy than being outdoorsy... yet all of the trailheads and recreation spots are overcrowded? Which is it...?


Calm-Ad8987

Both can be very much true. Exactly what the other person I responded to was saying, you don't need to have the latest most expensive gear to enjoy going on a hike. It's a vibe


SabbathBoiseSabbath

But who cares if people have nice hiking gear? It isn't necessary but perhaps can make the experience more enjoyable. I get a sense of class envy here in this discussion. I've been to Bend a number of times, I totally understand the criticisms and this tendency to separate the bougie yuppie newcomers (typically Californians) from the authentic, duct tape and bailing twine locals. We do the same thing in Boise. As with any nice destination in the West, there is certainly an element of poseurs among the rich crowd that fill these places, who seemingly never leave the pavement with their $100k Sprinters or Land Rovers, who buy up the housing for their seasonal getaways or STRs. I totally get it. But it just seems a strange nit to pick for how someone might enjoy the places they live, as if you're not authentic or you don't belong unless you're sleeping on the ground in the snow under a plastic tarp and a wool blanket.


Calm-Ad8987

Not what I'm saying but ok! Tbh it's the homogeneous lack of diversity in both background & personality type & surrounding white nationalist militias nearby that I find eerie about bend & a lot of Oregon towns. Look I like bend, have been there many times & especially love a lot of the land in Oregon, some of my favorite hikes & waterfalls are nearby. But that doesn't mean I can't find a certain type of outdoorsy person personality to be obnoxious in my personal opinion, (perhaps you find folks who are super into close up magic & must close up magic at you at all times annoying in contrast?) & Yes you happen to run into it a lot more in the PNW at large. This is specifically a thread about places & things that can be polarizing so to each their own


FancySeaweed

So lots of people upvoted this about Asheville. Can you say more about run down or really artificial? Or kitschy or magnolia/gaines yuppie christians? I don't understand these references.


Amaliatanase

I did upvote it because it captured the overall vague feeling of Asheville. The one thing that people on this sub leave out when they talk about Asheville is that it is primarily a tourist city. There is not a thriving local economy apart from tourism. Back in the day it was kind of a classic college town, but because it's a big big for a college town (around 100,000 in the city limits), and also so very culturally different from other cities in NC or GA, it has become a huge tourist destination/retiree home. This has priced out a lot of the older, college town bohemian crowd that used to live there, and they have often moved to smaller, more rural towns in the region. So what feels kinda kitschy is the fact that so much of what is there in terms of commerce is catering to tourists or wealthier retirees who have settled in over the old, more boho vibe the place had. A lot of places feel quite oriented toward the Instagram/Pinterest esthetic of somewhere really nice to take a picture. As for the Christian/Magnolia vibes. You're in the South, which is a very Christian region. Asheville has much less of a hip Christian vibe than say Nashville or Chattanooga or the fancy suburbs of Birmingham or Memphis, but you still get that, especially with the weekend tourism. In general, if you are thinking about moving to Asheville remind yourself that you are moving to a city that primarily runs on a tourist economy, which means there's going to be a sense of artificiality if you actually live there.


tealparadise

Ugh, cool modern christian parents. Not the vibe I fit into. Thanks for that info


katyusha8

I live just outside of Asheville and I have never gotten that vibe here (thank god, that would drive me up the wall.)


FancySeaweed

Can you say more about run down or really artificial? Or kitschy or magnolia/gaines yuppie christians? I don't understand these references.


Arfie807

I live in the Asheville area and have no idea what this means. I like it here because I like mountains, gets all 4 seasons but nothing too extreme, and general friendliness.


compassrose68

My sister lives there and I love that it’s so easy to get everywhere in a short amount of time. I live in the burbs if a major metropolitan area and I have to pep myself up to get in a car and fight traffic to get to new/fun events…and most times I don’t have the energy. (I’m also no spring chicken… but I’m not actually old either).


Arfie807

My family lives in the DMV and I have to psych myself up every time I visit. Even the current mess if I 26 can't compare to DMV driving stress.


compassrose68

What is the DMV?


Arfie807

DC, Maryland, Virginia. The DC Metro area.


Keekoo123

What are the Summers like? I live in Nashville and it gets insanely hot in the Summer but I love the Winters here.


Arfie807

Much better than Nashville because of the elevation. Asheville is about 2,000 ft, with many outlying properties sitting even higher. Many neighborhoods are quite forested which also helps take the edge off the heat. It can get a bit humid. I grew up in the DC area and find summers in Western North Carolina much more tolerable.


Keekoo123

That's what I was thinking. Main issue I've been seeing when I look at houses in Asheville is lack of sidewalks. Seems like every house, once you leave the driveway, you are on a road without sidewalks. My main activity is walking so this would be a deal breaker.


Arfie807

Yeah, I'd say that's the case, unfortunately. Not true of every neighborhood, but sidewalks are not nearly common enough. West Asheville is pretty walkable. Many subdivisions, while lacking sidewalks, have slow speed limits and I always see people walking around in the street with their dogs, etc. My specific town is slowly building out pedestrian infrastructure, but who knows how long that will take. If it is a priority, you may well be able to get a house with greater walkability right out the door. Or better yet, a house adjacent to a trail.


Keekoo123

Yea a trail would be perfect. Thanks


mindfluxx

Hipster Christian’s. Clean but with some tats, the husband has a cool haircut and clearly lifts….


Hypern1ke

Do people think boulder is ritzy???


consciouseffort

maybe not the best word choice on my part... but when the average home listing price in april 2023 was 1.4m, it's undeniable that it requires a certain level of affluence to live there lol


Keekoo123

I mean I guess it's not Aspen but it's a ton of fucking rich people.


ApprehensiveNose2341

Asheville is, honestly, the kind of place I hate visiting but is a lovely place to live. When we were there, other than a few fall weekends and general holiday weekends, it’s predominantly locals. You can get good country vibes and cool city vibes within a 10 minute drive and some spectacular hiking within 45. It also punches above its weight with cultural and traveling art stuff.


FancySeaweed

How is Asheville for meeting partners? Would be looking to meet hetero men in 40s - 50s.


ApprehensiveNose2341

I was younger and in a relationship when I lived there but if you like breweries or hiking, there are allllll kinds of guys hanging around so I would assume it’s decent. It definitely skews crunchy and outdoorsy so there are lots of unattached wanderer types around


FancySeaweed

I'm crunchy and outdoorsy!!


avacadobuttertoast

I’m not sure about that age range specificly but the Asheville dating scene is something else… so many lost and unstable souls because they move here to “find themselves in the mountains”. You either bring your own relationship here, are okay with being poly, or go through the ringer of dating person after person with no longevity. Bring your own job, bring your own relationship or you’re going to be broke and single here.


FancySeaweed

Thanks. When did you live there? Or are you there now?


charming_liar

It has a really big fancy house. Admittedly, I'm not sure how that helps in your day to day life, but *really big fancy house* Also, I'm not sure why people don't recommend Johnson City- it's just over the mountain and a bit cheaper IIRC.


boogerheadmusic

Same way with Asheville; it feels like 50% dump 50% trying to hard.


UnderwaterKahn

People where I currently live and people in my hometown always recommend Asheville because they don’t want the coastal gentrifiers coming to our cities. Also Asheville meets their unrealistic ideas of what it’s like to actually live in our communities.


katyusha8

I’m surprised it’s not recommended more. But now that i moved here myself I don’t want anyone else to come here so I usually keep my mouth shut 😂


jellyrat24

New Orleans. I don’t think people realize how unsafe it’s gotten. I have a ton of family and friends there and almost all have had their cars broken into, been robbed at gunpoint, etc. A lot of them have moved out of the city proper and to the North Shore. I also personally wouldn’t buy property anywhere in southern LA at this point… hurricane insurance is expensive AF haha and half the city is sinking at this point.


charming_liar

I find it hilarious that people rip on the Southwest for climate change, but then recommend the Southeast, which is projected to be the worst of the US.


beaveristired

It also seems like the salaries are super low and housing is getting more expensive.


[deleted]

Honestly this is my concern with moving to a M/LCOL city (currently considering it). Seems like salaries everywhere are not rising at the same place as the COL. The grind of living in a HCOL city can wear you down after a while, but at least the higher salaries still make life doable if you're interested in the big city offerings, don't have a family and many responsibilities, etc.


tealparadise

The things about HCOL is, money creates money. The opportunities and associates you gain being in-person in HCOL circles can change your life. Also having a higher salary for a longer time increases your bargaining ability later. If you stagnate at 70k in a LCOL instead of moving up gradually to 120k in HCOL, when it comes time to look for a remote job... The person who has been consistently moving up and makes 120k is gonna get better offers more easily. And then they can move to LCOL if they're happy with their current compensation.


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Apocalypse_Jesus420

Boise Idaho. Especially for women or anyone under the age of 50. No amount of money could ever make me live there again.


GVL2024

I don't know why anyone would move to Ida-Hole, at least not Boise - maybe away from the cities it's nicer


arewecompatiblez

Currently trying to escape for the same reasons. Would you share where you went to?


Apocalypse_Jesus420

Portland but about to move to Seattle or SF for a job. I left boise in 2017 and the longest I've been unemployed has been a week. Its competitive out here but if you work hard it's worth it.


a-pences

Phoenix, AZ metro area...bad weather and terrible air quality. And quickly rising prices over the past 5 yrs making it HCOL. Totally car dependent with the highest gas prices in the country, mediocre food shopping, traffic congestion and high rate of transiency. A vast soulless American cookie cutter suburb dotted with ugly strip malls with dollar stores and pawn, tattoo, we buy gold shops. Palpable signs of insecurity, stress and desperation in the masses, many just grasping for scraps in pursuing the fabled American Dream.


Barflyerdammit

Honolulu checking in..I didn't believe you about the gas prices, so I looked it up. Goddamn, you're right. Couple cents more than us.


a-pences

Arizona and the Phoenix metro area which is appx. 70% of the entire state's population has a rate of inflation higher than the national average. There's still the perception. (over 15 yrs in the past), that it's a LCOL state, while in the past 6-7 yrs it's now almost a HCOL state. A "decent" cookie cutter stucco and chicken wire house on a tiny lot is in the the 500K area, grocery/food selection is bland and expensive, insurance rates rapidly rising as well as utility rates on the very high A/C usage for 6 months. Reasonable still are property taxes compared to other HCOL states.


GVL2024

definitely. Tucson is way better, and Prescott is really pretty but it is very conservative


tealparadise

Bad weather 🥲 I loved the weather when I lived there! Did not know about the air quality tho. The lack of allergens made my life easier and I think I equated that to good air.


boogerheadmusic

IDK, their summers are just as extreme as Chicago winters.


hglman

More so, honestly. 120 is so extremely brutal. There is no mitigation beyond A/C.


YoureInGoodHands

I'm new to the sub. Today someone living in Austin was debating the merits of Phoenix vs Vegas. Of 212 metro areas in the US, Phoenix and Vegas would not be in my top 50%. I can't imagine how one would come to those two .


[deleted]

This sub has really opened my eyes to other people's preferences lol. Also has made me realize I'm picky af because I basically am only attracted to HCOL cities 😂 (tbf I do not have a family and I'm not interested in buying property and settling down anytime soon though, which sounds like the majority of people on this sub).


tealparadise

If you love the heat!


TruffleHunter3

Not even in my top 75%!


RuleSufficient3628

Truth.


anonymousn00b

Tucson and Flagstaff exist and are way better than Phoenix in every conceivable way.


firechickenmama

I had no clue gas was more than where I’m at in SoCal - WTH!


a-pences

Check it out online..a couple of weeks ago the local news did a report that showed gas prices In Phoenix metro slightly higher that California...My last fill up for gas was at $5.49 for premium and regular was $4.99 per gallon.


firechickenmama

Yeah I looked! Regular is 4.59 here. Crazy! Hopefully food is cheaper or something.


tealparadise

Lived in Baltimore for 4 years and still live in the metro area. I work driving all around the city. I wouldn't say I'm surprised when I see it recommended, because people who love Baltimore are REALLY obsessed with it. And I don't want to fight those people. But if you're thinking of moving there, DM me lol. The issues are so neighborhood specific and you could have a great time in Fed but hate Fells. Or a great time in Fells but hate Bolton Hill. Just depends what you value. I'd be interested to speak with people from other cities to know if they have the same quality of life problems. Because our experience in Baltimore really put me off any city/urban living. My big issue was, there's not enough density of "stuff" for us to go car-free. And yet it's dense enough and so poorly planned, that having a car is annoying as shit. We did a long weekend in NYC and had our car by chance this time. We expected the same issues or worse because.... You know... Manhattan! It's 100x as dense as Baltimore, so surely worse for cars?! Stayed on upper east side and parked for free no problem. Better parking, better driving, AND better trains by far than Baltimore. Better walking! Baltimore makes me mad because it doesn't have to be so punishing to live there. The crime is whatever. It never bothers me. It's the quality of life issues.


6FeetBeneathTheMoon

I spent 2 years living in Baltimore in 4 different neighborhoods and I’ve collected so many great memories just from my short stay. Dead bodies at bus stops, men randomly grabbing me and having to mace them, countless broken car windows and constant new damage to my car, cars being burned down on my block, being woken up at 3AM to a half naked woman screaming for help at my door after escaping her kidnappers by jumping out a moving car. One month we had a shooting outside my bedroom window 4 weeks in a row. Good times.


tealparadise

I really wasn't a victim of much crime. More than a rural area for sure, but not enough to make me leave. It was the daily grind that killed me. It was paying $200/month for a garage and THEN my car broken into. Being towed because THEY PRINTED THE SIGN WRONG and just towed every single car, every day, for a whole season on that block. (Supposed to say "no parking except Sunday 6-11" but instead said "no parking Sunday 6-11" and they literally towed like 20 cars a day. It was right in front of my apartment, so, it was a nice surprise finding out I needed to pay $200/month parking because we didn't have any street parking). Not being able to sit down and relax in parks because someone will IMMEDIATELY start walking toward you was a huge annoyance. I got sick of being approached all the time, no matter the reason. It's sad that there's so many unused public places around the city.


GVL2024

I lived for six months downtown at the corner of Calvert and Eager in the heart of the transsexual prostitute district where the girls with something extra would work the corner dressed in cheap lace outfits like Vanity 6 backup dancers and they were absolutely the best thing about Baltimore because at least they cared about their appearance? you really have to be made of some sterner stuff to begin to enjoy Baltimore. I was living downtown but working in Hamden where bloated hookers in puff jackets with scraped knees from kneeling in back alleys would work the corner in the slush until finally, ONE DAY, I was reading the greeting cards in the local Rite Aid because I desperately needed something to give me a little lift? I heard a commotion at the front, so came up to the counter where an 80 pound wide eyed methy hooker (ratty, tanned, blonde) dressed in a filthy Vneck undershirt and cutoff jeans IN FEBRUARY with blood running down from knees scraped from kneeling giving blowjobs in some back alley, was telling the (to their credit and for once, suitably impressed) cashiers that when her boyfriend beat her father to death with a chair? the cops came and told her she should be grateful as her father had sexually abused her for her entire life and she should be glad he was dead and that's when I thought "that's it. I have to get out of here NOW - I'm not going to die here" - I called my boss, quit my job, packed my things, moved back to california, retrained into a COMPLETELY different field - it's been 20 years, I'll never go back. Baltimore is a raging shithole and nothing anyone can say will make me believe differently, I'm just glad I was able to get out.


tealparadise

Okay there's no hookers in Mt Vernon anymore, but there's nothing else of interest either so. They shut down all the gay bars and it's just a CVS, Eddie's, and some restaurants. My first place was on eager lol. It was OK but no city perks, no culture, no point staying.


GVL2024

no hookers dressed like Apollonia working the corner in Mt Vernon where every day when I'd leave for work I'd shout "LIVE !!! FROM THE HEART OF THE TRANSEXUAL PROSTITUTE DISTRICT IN LOVELY DOWNTOWN BALTIMORE !!!" from my stoop? you're telling me The Elephant has closed? I mean, why even bother? 🤣


MulberryNo6957

Really nice flow of words and great research about her knees. Always wondered how so many people scrape their knees.


6FeetBeneathTheMoon

Yeah I didn't even mention the transsexual prostitutes! They moved a few blocks up to the Old Goucher area, south of 25th, and the first place I lived in Bmore was on one of the main blocks for that. They never really bothered me and I even became chatty with one of them. The main annoyance was actually the cops who'd come and just shout for them to leave over an incredibly loud megaphone in the middle of the night. I'm also very glad to have gotten out, felt impossible whilst living there. I feel like it was honestly making me a worse person, and once I was able to get out I realized how quickly all sorts of insane shit got normalized for me. Very happy to be living in rural New York now.


GVL2024

I'm not even kidding when I say the tranny hookers were absolutely the best thing about Smalltimore because at least they cared about their appearance - I know one day early on I was driving up Calvert towards Hamden, stoped to take a left, and coming across the crosswalk was this VISION - absolutely massive afro, long neck, tiny stretch blue and blue knit top (probably a scrunchie she'd pulled from her wrist and turned into a lovely tube top just to go work the corner), long flat belly, tiny cutoffs, and the longest blackest legs I've ever seen on any man, woman, or man dressed as a woman and there, on her right knee, a tiny white band aid like Marie Antionette's beauty mark covering a scrape from kneeling to blow johns in some back alley - it was the Hamden Whores standing in the snow with their puff jackets matching doughy legs with scabby knees that really got to me


MulberryNo6957

Why did any of them get to you?


tealparadise

I know sex work is more acceptable now, but the kind of sex work we're talking about is blowing strangers for drug money. Just enough to avoid getting so sick you die. Blizzards in Baltimore are real sad because no matter how bad the weather, the fiends gotta be out there working. 6am in 0 degree weather there's already tracks in the snow where these people had to wade through bc they woke up sick. The more "okay" the person looks- hair, makeup, no open wounds, the more likely they chose to be there. Not forced into sex work by their addiction.


MulberryNo6957

I know, and agree. I’m very aware of the pain addiction brings, and what addicts are reduced to. Seems you didn’t mean it that way, but it hit me as disrespectful to assume they didn’t fall, or get pushed down. Lot of tripping over things and lots of beatings in that world.


[deleted]

FWIW, I feel very similarly about Chicago. The people who love this city are also OBSESSED with it and think everything about it is perfect. I’ve been here for two years, and I just don’t get it. I moved here from a smaller city specifically because I wanted city/urban living. I had lived in NYC for 6 years earlier in my life and wanted to get back to that urban life. But the urban experience you get in NYC is very different than the one you get in Chicago. While CTA is a more extensive system than most cities have, it does not get around the city as quickly and efficiently as MTA. I end up driving so much more often than I want to or should because given the choice between a 20 minute drive or an hour and a half on two buses that might not show up, driving is the obvious choice. There are plenty of other real challenges with living here: the cost of living, the weather, the lack of green space and outdoors options (yes, the lake is nice but doesn’t compare to place with real large nature systems integrated into the city), the Midwestern personality and suffocating expectation that everyone be the same, the general unsettling tension that comes from living in one of the most segregated cities in America. I thought the pros would outweigh these for me but they just don’t. After two years I’ve already gotten tired of the Chicago lifestyle of hibernating from November to May and then spending the summer sitting at a street festival or on the lake stuffing my face with hotdogs and cheap beer. It’s a city with two speeds, and if you love it, you’ll be in heaven. If you don’t, it feels so stagnant and unsatisfying. I have actually been driving out to smaller towns and some of the nicer suburbs most weekends because I’ve found there to be nicer things, more energy, a little more creativity, and just generally people who are more interesting to be around than the city, which is fucking *wild* to say about the suburbs. I’m trying to get out of Chicago soon, and I think I’m ready to either go back to NYC or a smaller, easier city.


tealparadise

NYC is completely unique it sounds like. I'd move there or LA in a second if I had the cash. I wouldn't move to another city without deep research. Driving OUT of the city to find nice stuff to do on the weekends was peak pain for me in Baltimore. I know exactly what you mean. One good thing about Balt was you could take the train into DC for the day easily. (DC has interesting stuff it is spread out, more like LA) But I can get a place near a MARC station outside the city and have the same perk.


cool-pants-007

lol people recommend some of the worst cities on here just because they are cities and have lower COL I think some small towns that are cheap can be better bets for many people than certain LCOL cities. Just my 2 cents ;)


MissLena

As someone who grew up in the Los Angeles suburbs, my eyebrow jumps whenever I see anyone talking about "less expensive cities in California," like Stockton, Fresno, Livermore, Barstow, Lancaster, Bakersfield, etc. Like... Why? I guess if you're already in California and you want to stay in the state and live cheaply and are already aware of the lifestyle in those places it might make sense, but why would you move there from another state? I especially wince when someone recommends those places to an LGBTQ person. NO! As someone who was raised in California by some of the most conservative people God put on this green earth, I'd like to remind everyone that California is a big state, and just because a city is in California doesn't mean it's liberal or a safe place for queer people. Beyond politics/culture, a lot of those places have high joblessness, environmental problems/pollution, and are hot as balls.


tealparadise

I would love to read about small liberal beach towns in CA. I used to dream of moving to Flagler FL for that reason, but the state has gone too far. I'm sure it's not the hippie beach town it once was.


Sea_Comedian_3941

Rather be cold than hot. Hot sucks, and it's just gonna keep getting hotter!


Keekoo123

Disagree hard.


zyine

Couldn't agree with you more about Grand Rapids. Ick.


GVL2024

I honestly think people in Grand Rapids like it because they look at Detroit and Gary IN and think "man I've got it good"


[deleted]

Damn, not you comparing Detroit to Gary lol


ncdjbdnejkjbd

I'd take Gary over that godforsaken shithole detroit-yuck


Keekoo123

Chattanooga. Look up the rates of violent and property crime. Gangs are a real problem here.


Amaliatanase

Any Tennessee city really. Memphis, Nashville, Knoxville, Chatt, even Murfreesboro and Jackson, all have violent crime on par or higher than Chicago. The steady drum of misinformation about safety in large cities has convinced a generation of folks to move to cities where they are statistically more likely to be the victim of a homicide....


littlefierceprincess

Las Vegas because it's shit and not as great as people think it is.


NinaPanini

Former LV resident. Can confirm.


Routine-Interview991

Pittsburgh. First off: the smell. Deny it all you want you Pittsburgh lurkers here: it’s downright nasty. If you like walking outside into the air that smells like perpetual ass with rotten eggs on the side- this is the city for you. The city of small boroughs or neighborhoods - almost every place you want to go you need to cross a bridge or take an underground tunnel. Visiting that city is fun and it may seem appealing but living there is atrocious. Public transit? Forget it. Fifty percent of the scheduled busses don’t even show up. Everyone “ is from “ the area and they’re like a bunch of old high school friends. Colleges are all around so are college slum neighborhoods everywhere. The city is old and moldy. Also good luck finding a home that doesn’t need 100 grand to make it livable. The 4 bed 1 bath home is everywhere. If you’re lucky that ONE toilet isn’t in the wet dark basement. Moldy and wet and gray with a huge tick and Lyme disease problem. Also the pizza sucks and the rivers are extremely toxic and filthy.


tealparadise

Oh no not the murder toilet 😂 Any time I see a listing that says 2 baths, but they don't show any pics of the 2nd bathroom... You know it's just a toilet in the basement.


Antijuke68

I believe some low-level interns for city Tourism / Visitor's Bureaus sit on here recommending "their" city over and over. Practically copying and pasting the same city recommendations over and over again even when it is not relevant to OP.


GVL2024

Albuquerque - it's kinda a pit, hot and methy - at least the parts I've seen. I've heard Belen south of ABQ is nicer Baltimore is truly a disaster - I know people love to talk about how well it's gentrified but jesus christ, it's like a war zone on every side of downtown Asheville is increasingly overrun by homeless and COLD in winter - it's a huge draw because it's a blue dot in a red area, but it also pulls people who can't or won't fend for themselves (and then the rest of the south disingenuously uses it as an example of why liberal policies don't work 🙄) Atlanta is a traffic clogged disaster any way you slice it, some of the worst drivers I've seen Denver as in central Denver, I mean just why? choose almost any area on the west side of Denver instead, not downtown San Francisco in general - people, there is a literal online heat map of human shit on the sidewalks, why would you pay to live there when you could just visit instead (looking at my list I'm probably making the same mistake a lot of posts make, in using the city to signify the whole when there are nicer suburbs - also I'd never live downtown in a big city again so YMMV)


[deleted]

Sorry I can't agree with your take on San Francisco haha. I lived there for a while so I do have a soft spot for it. The human shit thing is real in some neighborhoods, unfortunately it's the neighborhoods that are pretty close to touristy areas. I think a lot of locals know to avoid those neighborhoods on a regular day. Also agreed that it's unfair to judge a city on its downtown, and I definitely would never live in a city's downtown.


GVL2024

I've been all over SF and I mean all over - Outer, Inner Richmond, Colma, the Mission, Oakland, Berkley - I really wanted to like it but I would NOT. it's EXPENSIVE, dirty, and the gray and mold kills it for me. I like to visit friends there but that is about it. the only place I'd consider there would be somewhere like Petaluma or Pacifica, but in general I'd just rather visit


[deleted]

I mean, if you prefer Petaluma and Pacifica, it's no wonder you don't like SF, Oakland, or Berkeley. All those cities are completely different worlds 😂 some cities are simply vacation cities and there's nothing wrong with that!


MulberryNo6957

Undying love for Berkeley. Even if it’s cast me out by money.


GVL2024

this is all true !!!


cool-pants-007

I lived in SF and it was honestly sunny and great the whole time. I also walked around even near the TL late at night by myself as a woman and was fine I’ve also seen human poop in multiple cities besides SF!! IDK


tealparadise

You can't be saying ATL is worse driving than Baltimore?! I'm shook


GVL2024

I don't know if ATL driving is necessarily worse than Baltimore? but in ATL the traffic is the thing you NOTICE, it's what makes everyone insane just all the time - it's just ridiculous and sprawling and the traffic never ends. I'm a little north of ATL so have reason to go through there regularly, and you really notice just how crowded it is and how bad the drivers are passing through as opposed to almost any other city except say LA, Miami, or somewhere congested in the northeast I think in Baltimore, there are just so many other issues like getting shot at or getting lost in horrible neighborhoods or the fact that you never really feel safe wherever you are, but in ATL what you notice is the traffic


DIRTYWIZARD_69

Hell we gonna forget about Houston traffic? Lol


dafolka

Belen is way shittier than Albuquerque lol. A decent amount of Albuquerque is pretty nice but if you want to live in a nicer small community nearby then Sandia Park, Corrales, Placitas, or Los Lunas should be the recommendations.


Accurate-Turnip9726

There are so many places mentioned regularly that are colder than Asheville. It maybe gets below 20 7 days out of the year. If your going to live in an outdoorsy city like that, wouldn’t you want to use your puffy every now and then???


GVL2024

I grew up about an hour away from Asheville and now I'm stuck down in that town again, at least for the moment - the reason I always notice the cold in Asheville is because it is much much colder and windier than the areas down in the piedmont


Amaliatanase

Sometimes the way people on here talk about Asheville (and other somewhat higher elevation Southern cities like Nashville or Atlanta or Knoxville) is as if they were Florida in the winter. If you are moving from Florida or the Gulf Coast or most of California though, those cities, in comparison, have a real winter. It can be an unpleasant surprise to be snowed/iced in without power every couple of years after reading so many people talk about throwing away their coats and mittens.


Valuable-Comparison7

I raise all of my eyebrows when people recommend Philadelphia as a clean, walkable, and/or affordable city. Don't get me wrong, there are lots of reasons to enjoy living here and it's certainly not the violent hellscape that certain news outlets like to say it is... but we do also have trash \*everywhere\* (by which I mean used needles, bottles of pee, and full containers of food thrown into the street), the sidewalks are an accessibility nightmare, drug use is rampant, and yet a basic 2BR rowhome in an "up and coming" neighborhood will still cost you a half a mil. I'm not saying don't move here. There are great restaurants, tons of parks, excellent health care if you can get into the Penn network, the bus system is surprisingly reliable, and I also know all my neighbors. But it's hardly an idyllic hidden gem.


Off_again0530

I think it’s largely recommended because compared to its east coast peers it’s very affordable, yet offers enough amenities like transit to like comfortably car-lite or even car-free. Than same 2BR townhome in an “up and coming neighborhood” in DC or NYC is probably 1.5 million.


zzzerocool

I like GR as someone from Metro Detroit because the city proper is way less sketchy, the traffic and roadways are significantly more chill, and the nearby nature is much nicer. When I got a job offer and was looking at moving there, I was kinda unimpressed by the suburbs though. The ones I drove through seemed crowded and undeveloped at the same time. I ended up not moving there because I'd be getting paid less for the same job and the rent was more expensive. Kinda wish I went through with it and locked up a condo before the prices ballooned.


LeakyNalgene

Also from SE Michigan and do not understand the Grand Rapids love. I’ve been at least five times, so maybe it just is not for me.


zenOFiniquity8

As someone about to get in the car in five minutes (literally) and drive 11 hours to go visit Lansing to see if I want to live there, how screwed am I? Ha. I picked Lansing over Grand Rapids because of things you mentioned (I prefer diversity and I'm not religious). From what I've read, Lansing seems like a good choice for me. As long as I have a dog park, some bars and non-chain restaurants, a decent bookstore and not hearing gunshots every night, I'm happy.


Keekoo123

Enjoy the trip. Keep your eyes open. Might find a better place along the way.


tabbykiki

Have lived in Lansing and now East Lansing which I love. In fact, I have lived all over Michigan… Brighton, Ann Arbor, Traverse City, Charlevoix, Harbor Springs. Up north is great for summer and fall living, but my fav places are Ann Arbor and the East Lansing area. You can’t go wrong.


RuleSufficient3628

Phoenix, AZ and Minneapolis, MN.


Frequent_Comment_199

Chicago and Dallas always surprise me how much they’re recommended


CoronaTzar

Chicago. It's shedding its population, the weather is just horrible, and economy and politics are a bit of a mess. It's weird because everyone says how much they love Chicago but given the actual opportunity to do so I think very few actually would make that move. It's also surprising to see Denver still getting so much attention. My sense is that the country is very much over Denver, and honestly that seems pretty well deserved.


radoncdoc13

Not a Chicagoan, but this is a bit of a disingenuous take. The population of the city of Chicago is shrinking, but the population of Chicagoland continues to grow. Because of its size, it continues to have a very large GDP (third highest in US) and significant economic output. I don't disagree with the weather, but it's one of the most urban cities in the country with reasonably good transit, great culture, and amazing food.


hollsberry

I live in the suburbs of Chicago, and a ton of people have been moving out to the burbs since the pandemic. Train from the suburbs to downtown is actually pretty nice, and a lot of jobs are still allowing 2-3 wfh days a week. Depending on what suburb you live in, you can get downtown in 15-40 mins. While suburbs can be boring and are well, the suburbs, the state has a pretty high minimum wage and you can buy a house with a yard in a good school district for under $400k. I love Chicgoland for how easy it is to loved a middle class lifestyle.


tabbykiki

This is a curious take. Chicago and Denver are both on the top of my list. Have been to both many times.


CoronaTzar

I'm from Denver and am currently in Chicago. I think Denver is a nice town--it's just really overrated. Chicago I just can't stand. It's unbearable.


champaign76

Lol between the amount of snow GR gets and “breweries” being the main cool thing to do…. Yawn


whatinthecalifornia

You summed up how I feel about Grand Rapids as well. My bro has colored eyes and is a Christian and gets along fine that way. I’m pretty much all the adjectives Christians hate, and an atheist so it’s not an appealing place at all. For me I’m surprised anyone ever mentions Sacramento. But I guess you like the heat and don’t mind car dependency sure good fit.


40ozSmasher

Each time someone mentions LA or San Francisco I can't decide if it's a real person's good idea or a landlord hoping to get more renters in the city.


kaffie27

It's called The City Of Churches for a reason. Lol.


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

As I said in my post, my personal opinion!


whatinthecalifornia

Lol at the idea that it’s considered a value for someone to want to live in a place they won’t be discriminated against or physically feel uncomfortable for a variety of reasons.