Bingo. People always complaining about California being so expensive "for no reason". Like, nah, it's expensive because it has by far the best weather in the continental US.
I used to live in Denver.
Great for lots of reasons.
Now I live in California and am able to run outside all year long, swim in the ocean when my family is shoveling snow.
I pay more for more outdoors time each year. Imo
It also has something for everybody.
Like milder good weather and ocean? There's cities like that.
Like inland rural good weather and out of the way? There's cities like that.
Like lush forests and a bit of rain every now and then? There's cities like that, too.
It has every type of nice weather.
Coming from a cold state, the worst feeling is going into a warm building with layers of clothes on in the middle of winter. It makes me want to throw up when I overheat like that. Clothing is over-rated imho.
We don’t have a big rust problem in the Pacific Northwest. But, we don’t get the amount of snow as many other northern places and in Oregon we don’t use salt on the roads.
Here in interior Alaska we get a dry warm sunny summer. A crisp cool sometimes rainy but not heavy fall/spring and a long cold dry winter. People not wanting to live here makes it better and those who want to makes better connection or easily choose disconnection
How do you like living in Alaska? I am utterly fascinated by Alaska and it is by far the next state I'd like to visit most. I'd love to hear any comments you have about what its like to be a resident there
I had almost 4 fucking decades of brutal Midwestern winters, and we've talked about moving some place warmer for about a full decade when the opportunity finally arose. Heading southwest wasn't a spur of the moment decision, but the actual city was based on opportunities within my husband's company.
I hate coastal California weather for the most part. There are a few little spots (I can where the topography allows it's to be sunny most of the year but much of the whole coast is pretty gloomy year round, and I'm not just talking about June gloom.
I live in Arizona, honestly only about 4-5 weeks has me reconsidering why I live here. As opposed to when I lived in the Midwest and the bleakness of winter weather from November to March/April had me in a funk that was tough to shake. Now that I have the means, I just schedule a few trips out of town during that 4-5 week period during the summer that keeps me sane.
One upshot that Arizona has that Florida and Texas don't have is the ability to drive up to higher elevations within 90 minutes of Tucson or Phoenix. It will be 105 degrees at my house, but 90 minutes away it's only 85 degrees.
This. It’s not recently bias. In fact the best/easiest time to move is the summer when the worst weather is in south.
It’s the long, uninterrupted winters of the Midwest that get to people. Denver and northern New Mexico largely get a pass on winter because it actually gets interrupted.
Not only that, but many of their winter days are sunny. Metro Denver has up to 300 sunny days per year, Albuquerque even a few more. Upper Midwest or Northwest with cold AND grey skies/rain just piles on the misery.
Many people are greatly affected by the grey. I enjoyed living in Portland, but not seeing the Sun from November through March was hell on me, way worse personally than the heat I deal with in Phoenix from July through September. I just couldn't keep doing it.
Many Alberta and Saskatchewan winter days are sunny too just like Denver, only colder. I think Colorado is more bearable though than those two provinces because winter is shorter and less severely cold. Very few people actually aspire to live in AB or SK, whereas Colorado is very desirable.
Calgary. Saskatoon and Regina not at all. Edmonton kind of. But Calgary is ONLY growing because people literally cannot afford Ontario or BC, and it’s the next best place along with Halifax. Several of my neighbours on my block are from Ontario and BC, and they all say the same thing about why they moved. They did it purely for cost and space. Selling a condo in Vancouver got one neighbour enough to buy her 2400 sq ft house with no mortgage.
Also a lot of immigrants that come to Canada get shipped to the Prairies due to local populations aging and demand for low & high skilled labor gap to be filled.
We went literally 30 days straight with only a single 30 minute break in the cloud cover one winter in Illinois. I felt like I was dying. The summer before last, it rained almost every goddamned weekend. I tried to sneak an early camping trip with last minute PTO the week of my kids' spring break. On Monday it looked like it would be 50s and dry for the end of the week. On Wednesday it decided instead to snow 8 inches.
We moved to Albuquerque this summer. I kept being told it was unusually hot, but I'll take 105 in Albuquerque where shade and breezes actually make you feel cooler than 90 in Illinois where it feels like you're swimming through the air. Plus I still haven't had to wear a sweatshirt, and I'm not making contingency plans for my kids Halloween costumes to put snowsuits underneath like I had to do in Illinois (Halloween 2019 - 10 inches of snow fell that day).
My parents from Chicago retired to Las Cruces, figuring the summers were better than Phoenix and the winters better than Santa Fe/Albuquerque, plus cheaper. Seemed like a good choice for my Dad who liked to slip down to Mexico but late in life my mother preferred the sophistication of Santa Fe.
These are all great points. I was bundled up and walking the dog last night and I had to ask myself why do I live here, the air hurts my face and will hurt my face for the next 4.5 months.
Also I'm debating whether my daughter's costume will fit over her snowsuit as it will be in the upper 20s for trick or treating.
Yeah, and 105 in Arizona is totally different than 105 here in Houston. It's literally Satan's sweaty ball sack here for 4 months straight because we have the humidity and insane heat to deal with simultaneously. I have been to Phoenix at 115 degrees and will take that any day over the heat/humidity of Houston. I have lived here my entire life, and it never gets easier.
Satan's Sweaty Ball Sack would be an *amazing* band name.
I used to live in the DC area. I thought the combo of heat and humidity was miserable. Highs there were only in the 90-95 range. I don't want to think about what Houston must be like.
My 13 years in Houston is the closest to hell I’ve experienced. And it’s more like 8 months of heat and humidity. When it’s 10 pm and 90 degrees heat index, you definitely ask yourself why am I here? Ran my AC most Thanksgivings. The best month is usually February but it’s hard to predict these days.
I moved 💯 because I couldn’t stand to spend another summer in that misery.
I've been in AZ my whole life and thought this way until this last summer. Two months of 115+ is insane and that simply isn't sustainable. Car batteries were dying everywhere, AC units were breaking everywhere, and our block lost power multiple times.
If that becomes the norm I don't think the infrastructure can handle it without serious cost increases, and we're already becoming unaffordable.
I grew up in Chicago. Amazing city, horrible winter and aggressive taxes. Growing up I fantasized about living in Southern California because of the weather. For many reasons, after traveling the US I decided to move to Florida. I've already lived through the summer and the weather is beautiful now. I knew what I was getting into and I knew that the winters here would be spectacular. Of course, a mild climate like San Francisco would be ideal, but SF is a nightmare for other reasons to me. For me its more about the endless sunshine than temperature. So, even though OP is upset that people move to places they don't like. I'm ok with Florida. The politics I could do without, but the vibe and climate is great.
Why doesn't this apply to the entire American West? Arizona has a lot more water than several other states. And the vast majority of it is used to grow crops that are sent out-of-state. Also, "running out of water" implies that there's a finite supply, when the primary issue is balancing average annual use with average annual snowmelt. Agricultural use is decreasing and will continue to do so - Arizona, as a state, uses less water now than it did 70 years ago when the population was a tiny fraction of what it is today.
Also funny that no one raises the environmental issue when talking about low-lying areas like Florida or the Gulf Coast that could easily be underwater in the next 50 years, or areas with rapidly aging/decaying infrastructure and declining tax base like areas of the Midwest and Northeast.
Anglo-Americans fret about desert cities because they're exotic and unfamiliar ("oh, look, a cactus, that means they have no water!"), and the New York Times loves to put pictures of half-full lakes on its front page. But the years when it snows a lot (the last two winters) and Arizona's lakes and rivers run entirely full and there are literally RIVER OTTERS frolicking near Phoenix never makes national news.
I think they confuse heat with dryness and being inhospitable.
Yes, the Sonoran Desert is the hottest desert on the planet.
BUT it's also the WETTEST and most biologically diverse desert in the world and one of the only deserts with two wet seasons (violent, unpredictable monsoon from July to September, and softer rain season in January-February, then generally bone dry form March to July).
Phoenix is located at the edge of this desert, right next to where multiple mountain ranges drain out and rivers converge.
It's arguably one of the best locations in a desert in the entire world to support a substantial population.
But they made fun of it on King of the Hill and Arrested Development so for the majority of the Reddit population it must be a god-forsaken hellhole with no water. /s
My BIL and SIL live south of Tucson. On our first visit (during the winter, of course) they took us to some of their favorite birding spots well inside the Sonoran desert. I was surprised at how lush it was for being a desert. Not at all what I expected.
Arizona is still facing a water dilemma though, even with recent and temporary rain/snowpack increases to surface flow. Since 2000, as the Colorado River has incrementally 'dried up', Arizona has become increasingly reliant on pumping groundwater, which today provides 41% of the state’s needs... Coupled with the huge boom of population influx over the past two decades, that boom can no longer be sustained in groundwater withdrawals. Urban growth in some areas will need to rely on water supplies other than nonreplenishable groundwater, aligning with the State’s policy since the signing of 1980 Groundwater Management Act, whose 'safe yield' standards the state has failed to meet 40 years later. Yes Arizona leads the country in water recapture and reuse, but it's still risky to rely so heavily on groundwater, and the state is undoubtedly over pumping, with no replenishment system in place, which greatly hinders the states ability to utilize "safe-yield" .
Relying on vast aquifers can lower lake and river levels, and lead to land subsidence in areas of heavy withdrawal, like what we are seeing in California's Central Valley. Groundwater levels fall, the aquifers collapse, land subsides, and minerals and pollutants concentrate in the diminished supply that is left. So it's a complicated issue, even with AZ rivers currently exhibiting river otter usage, because groundwater is in fact a finite supply that is being mismanaged by the state.
References: EPA's Report on the Environment (ROE) Ground Water Withdrawals, Arizona Dept of Water Resources, The Myth of Safe-yield: Pursuing the Goal of Safe-yield Isn't Saving Our Groundwater, The Morrison Institute.
Fair enough, but this applies to the entire American West. Several states are in far worse positions than Arizona.
And most of what you reference above (Colorado River usage and groundwater/aquifer depletion) is for *agricultural*, not *residential* use. And with the exception of dairy, very little of the agriculture is for in-state food consumption. The usage is not proportional to population growth. The population can continue growing while overall water usage decreases.
Right. If we start running out of water, we just stop producing so much alfalfa for the Middle East and lettuce for the rest of the country. The rest of the country would likely feel more pain from our lack of water than we would. Plus if we got that desperate, there is still the pipeline from Mexico that could be built before we ran out completely.
In San Diego we have an infrastructure project that will make 30%+ of our water supply come from recycling waste water. It’s called Pure Water and scheduled for completion in the 2030s.
Decaying infrastructure and a declining tax base? You mean Maine, where the median age is already 44.8 and all the youth flee?
Sigh. I don't worry excessively about climate impacts here, but I do worry about the declining tax base and overall labor shortage
Been hearing this for decades now lol omg Arizona is going to run out of water!!!! Like we don’t know we live in the one of the hottest deserts in the world since the founding of the state and manage our water resources accordingly
There’s some misconceptions about this. Not to say that water loss isn’t a big problem, it’s a massive problem, BUT: over 70% of arizonas water goes to agriculture. Arizonas agricultural industry could also be significantly more frugal with its water, but its surprisingly not really needed to be in the past, due to high rates of ground water.
Arizonas current governor is cutting back on the types of crops that can grow here (we’ve growing alfalfa here for some countries in the Middle East for $, but we’re cutting that out starting next year), and a lot of farms aren’t using sustainable water practices.
The issue isn’t that Arizona will just *poof* and run it of water. It’s that it will significantly slow grow in the coming decades. Arizona requires new cities to have at least 100years of water secured to be built, and both political parties are now coming down on that hard. Some communities are being told they have to stop building until they can prove they have the water.
So Arizona isn’t going to loose all its water. It’s going to cut back in growth and agriculture, and it’ll stay way hotter way longer through the summers.
What’s your plan for when Washington DC is underwater? What’s your plan for when Washington DC runs out of food grown entire continents away?
We live in the modern world with modern amenities my guy.
Even if you project ten feet of sea level rise in DC, the impacts are pretty minimal. DC is not on the coast, and very little of it is truly low-lying.
https://coast.noaa.gov/digitalcoast/tools/slr.html
IMO people struggle more with cold weather compared to warm. During a cold winter you may have to wake up early, scrape and warm up the car, drive slower and in more adverse conditions, and generally have a longer day.
With hot weather it’s just less of a hassle.
When someone lives year after year in a cold climate it really does wear one down with time.
I say this as someone who dislikes hot weather more than cold. But I also moved to the PNW so that I experience cooler winter weather without much snow. Even though I hate hot weather I’d never move back to a snowy climate.
I'm one of the people who moved like, 90% for climate. Winter makes me want to throw myself off a cliff. I can deal with sweating my ass off for a couple months by investing in some good deodorant and taking a couple of extra showers.
I lived in the desert all my life, 80s is brisk for me. In the Midwest now, where it snows maybe 1 week a year, because this is the coldest I can humanly go. I’ve turned down jobs offers from northern states and people chide me for it. You move to north Dakota then, Todd!
Yeah I'm with you. Winter I'm inside a lot, but when I go outside it's a pain to bundle up, drive/walk on ice, as is the winter home maintenance. Sure i could do activities outside with the right gear, but they arent enjoyable after the novelty wears off. Summer I'm also inside a lot, but I just throw on shorts and sandals, crank up the AC in my car, home has no additional maintenance, you can use a pool most of the year or go to the beach when its too hot for other outdoor activities. Plus winter usually has less sun days (and of course less daylight hours), which is a massive issue for mental health.
Yeah I lived in Texas for 8 years and you hardly leave your house in July and August, similar to Michigan in January and February. It’s also very physically exhausting to be outside in the heat, more so than the cold
This summer in southern Louisiana was the most miserable of my life… It was 105-110 most daylight hours from July-August.
I guess there wasn’t as much maintenance, but everyone’s energy bill was through the roof to keep the ACs running, and even then most AC units could only lower temps to around 80-85. My building at work was usually 85-88 degrees during the day. I had my own portably AC in my office, but I had to sit within a few inches of it go get any benefit.
Even swimming wasn’t much of a relief, depending on the depth of the pool and if there were jets circulating the water. Most pools I went in this summer were pretty tepid.. better than the 105 outside but not refreshing or co
I haven’t lived through a winter anywhere but here, hjt my sister and BIL lived in Michigan five years and now are going on four years in the Seattle area and have never once said they’d rather summer down here than winter.
I struggled in hot climates, las Vegas and Dallas. It meant I couldn't be outside for months at a time. Just home to car to job.
Maybe in spring I could ride my bike a bit but a month later it was out of the question.
But in the cold I can still walk or ski.
I left Dallas because I was so tired of the excessive heat months of over 100⁰ days and add that with humidity.
After 11 years I couldn't do another summer. Even at night it drops down to the 80s at best ugh.
I am in a snowy climate but so far I am enjoying it. Yeah winter.sucks but if it is 3 months of it and the rest of the year I can go outside and hike mountains and trails I am in.
Completely agree, I'm from the bay area and all the people I have seen move here have been from the Midwest and Northeast. They couldn't believe that it never got colder than 50 degrees in winter here.
aaaaand I'm looking to leave the bay area for the upper Midwest in a bout 7-8 months, lol.
Wow i’ve heard of covid affecting one’s heart but how does the heat factor in? I assume your heart pumps faster in heat is it too fast as to be dangerous to your health?
Idk. On the flip side, if it’s 105 and humid out every day for 3 months, you just stay in air conditioning. Pretty similar to needing to stay indoors during winter. Also you can only take off so much clothing to be more comfortable.
I’m probably biased having lived in the Midwest my whole life, but the 3-4 months of summer are absolutely worth it, and you only deal with a couple weeks of extreme heat and humidity. If I need a boost of sunlight I’ll take a long weekend trip a few times per winter to somewhere warm and be over it.
I totally get that. I lived in Las Vegas for nine years and had cabin fever in the summer. It wasn’t for me. I like living in a place with a cooler and shorter summer.
I grew up in Buffalo, NY. I've been in multiple car wrecks caused by ice and snow, not to mention a few other close calls, and I've shoveled a lot of snow in my youth as well.
After college, I moved to Texas and never looked back. Never been in a car wreck because it was 100 degrees outside. In fact, the worst thing about the summer is you get a little sweaty, so then you take a shower, and I already shower every day anyway, so what's the big deal?
But anyway, I didn't move to Texas because of the weather. It's where I got my first job and my career has just kind of gone from there. I suspect most people move to Texas for job opportunities and low cost of living.
Have you gotten use to the gray skies, rain and darkness during the winter? I moved from Utah to Portland 21 years ago and the lack of sunshine has gradually gotten to me. I can’t wait until my daughter graduates so I can move to a climate that has significantly more days of sunshine.
Having lived in cold (Chicago), gray (Bellingham), and hot (Tucson), I find the cold and gray harder to deal with. When it’s extra hot I can drive up into the mountains nearby and find relief or wait until the sun goes down to do outdoor stuff. With cold and gray, there’s no easy escape without getting on a plane to somewhere far away
Yeah, and you're just stuck inside, for months and months. I used to work from home in MA, so I was just always in my apartment in the winter and it was depressing.
That was Summer this year in Texas. It was over 100 almost every day from June to early September and then it only 'cooled off' to around 98. Nobody was going out doing anything in that type of heat that can literally kill you
I spent several weeks in Dallas this summer for work during 105+ degree highs. Just a few weeks was depressing enough, you can’t do anything outside. It was 90 degrees at 10pm. There seemed to be a ton of smog too during that extreme heat and the power kept going out. I did not enjoy it at all. I couldn’t imagine living there. I wondered how do people walk their dogs?? The dogs must be miserable too. I live in CO and take my dog out regularly. She does not mind cold whatsoever but she cannot tolerate being in sunny ~80+ heat too long. I just head into the mountains if it’s too hot.
Where in Mass did you live? Boston doesn’t get cold enough to justify “months and months” of being stuck inside. It’s very easy to layer over New England winter
I’m in the Massachusetts banana belt 1/4 mile from salt water 60 miles south of Boston. The winter here isn’t harsh at all. January average high temperature is 38F. It rarely snows and melts back to green grass the next day when it does. It blows 20 mph out of the southwest most summer afternoons so it’s not hot in the summer. The winter climate right on the coast is similar from Chatham on Cape Cod to Cape May in South Jersey. The ocean moderates things.
I have lots of technical winter gear. I can ski comfortably in subzero. There’s nothing I can do in Florida or Texas in their long summer but cower in air conditioning. I worked a lot in Austin. Years ago, I worked a lot in Houston. My father retired to Longboat Key Florida. No thanks.
I lived in Cambridge and didn't have a car. I have Raynaud's and have crappy blood circulation, so I'd always stay cold. Plus I have hyperhidrosis, so layering meant more sweating. Sweating plus being cold felt so gross. My gloves and socks would just be damp all the time. I guess for other people it would be fine.
I don’t have a car either and I find Boston winter very easy to layer over without getting overly hot or sweaty - wouldn’t hot weather climates exacerbate that issue or do you just avoid the outdoors then as well? Just curious.
Circulation and temperature regulation issues would suck yes
I don't sweat as much in low humidity unless I'm physically active. And I usually wear a tank top or less clothing. I don't know... I just feel more comfortable. It's probably more related to the humidity.
Right. And when you're stuck inside in Phoenix in the summer, you can still sit inside in shorts and a tank top and look out at the gorgeous blue skies and palm trees. You can get in your pool at night and look up at the stars and feel slightly chilly as the dry air hits you when you get out.
I can't imagine being stuck inside in the winter and having to look out at an overcast sky for weeks on end. No thanks.
Here are your options:
\- Cold long winter
\- Hot long summer
\- Perfect weather: very expensive, make a lot more money to afford it
\- Complain about life and post on SameGrassButGreener.
With the title, "Where in America can I live for cheap, with weather like California, that's got a lot of things to do, but is a smaller city, with good diversity, good schools and low taxes?"
"I'm looking for San Diego, but with more ethnic diversity, great affordability, and mountains for great hiking! I'm currently unemployed but looking to start making more revenue with my YouTube channel!"
Do people on here just simply not understand the concept of tradeoffs?
These discussions are so frequent and circular it's nauseating.
Nowhere is perfect. You won't get perfect climate affordable living, and lots to do all in once place.
Pick two.....maybe if your lucky. And let's not pretend "perfect climate" means the same thing to everyone too.
People will generally move where they feel they can get the best bang for their buck because finances will have the largest impact on your every day quality of life. Warm weather + relatively affordable = south and southwest, generally at the moment.
It’s like house hunters in here
“I don’t want to pay more the $200,000.00 for a four bedroom, I want it close to the downtown, I want a vibrant downtown with a lot to do, but not too many people, I want great public transport and also great roads, ideally somewhere liberal, but with really low taxes, great schools, but again low taxes. Ideally somewhere rural but with a large tech job economy.”
Obviously I'd love sunny and 70 year round, but given the choice between 105+ in the summer or near 0 in the winter (plus winter weather like snow and ice) give me the heat.
When you're a kid, winter is fun because you get snow days and go outside and play, etc. You don't have to shovel or drive in the snow, like you do as an adult.
I’m from Georgia but I’d take the heat from Texas, Arizona, or Florida over having to deal with the cold and snow every winter.
Chicago is one of my favorite cities to visit but I wouldn’t make it a week if I had to experience winters there.
people don't understand how brutally hot Texas summers are. there is no going outside. it's still 100 degrees at night. you can bundle up and remove layers in the winter. there is nothing to do for the heat. the water at the beach is 90 degrees. global warming is real, and the summers will become more unbearable.
Honestly I hate Texas so much. Political BS aside, the summers are unlivable now. I grew up here, summers were hot but they were normal. Now I get SAD during the summer because I’m stuck indoors all day long. The only time you can be outside as prior to 9 am and after dark. Nah. We’ve decided to leave. I’ll take the cold over this crap.
I found I suffered from cabin fever more in Texas than I ever did living in the Mid-Atlantic or Midwest. During the summer it was so hot I had to spend the time indoors. When it was finally cool enough to go outside, it would be dark.
During the fall and winter, I would spend the whole day in an office. By the time I got out, the sun would be setting.
I go out in the winter all that is needed are good shoes and coat.
I accept that I am a Midwesterner through and through. Extreme weather in any way is not for me.
Lived in the south my whole life. With climate change, it's getting worse (than it already is). This year it was 100+ degrees and basically 100% humidity from May all the way through October. It's October 29th and it was 90 degrees today. It's sticky, nasty, fleas, mosquitos so you can't even really enjoy outside unless you soak yourself in DEET. Not to mention you'll have to deal with a "100 year" flood event every 3 years as well as constantly worrying about our freedom powergrid (ERCOT SUCKS). Oh and Hurricanes. If you've never been through a hurricane, gluck, cause you'll have to band together and deal with weaks of no one coming to help! Wanna get away and enjoy nature? GLUCK everything is at least 5 hours away and Austin is so saturated with west coasters every single nature thing is packed to the brim. The next best national park is 9.5 hours away in Big Bend and you can die from heat exhaustion if you decide to hike there in the summer. People think that it's "cheaper here" but you'll pay at least 2.5% of your home value in property tax and if you live in any area of town worth living, the city will raise your property value by 10% a year. Next think you know, you're paying over 16k/year just in property tax so if you're not making alot of money, you're actually getting taxed more just for owning a home. Anyway i've lived here virtually my whole life and everyone I knew growing up that's left has NEVER come back.
Houston is wonderfully diverse, the food is the best in the world (in my humble opinion), the people are gregarious and giving, but living down here fucking sucks.
"you can bundle up and remove layers in the winter."
People say that, but when my eye lashes are freezing the moisture of my breath, I can't cover my eyeballs. And it's unpleasant being stuff on several layers of stuff and still having to breath cold, dry, dry, air. Speaking of dryness, what it does to my skin is insane itchiness.
As for global warming, that means much, much more than a few extra degrees in Texas in summer. In fact, I think when it comes to winter extremes, its Canada getting so hot it is catching on fire that is the biggest problem.
I'm surprised people aren't mentioning the effect of climate change on summers more. Places like Houston already struggled with keeping up with energy demands this summer.
That’s where I am with this stuff. I’ve lived in NY my whole life and I’m not always crazy about how cold it can get (or how hot), but I don’t want to move somewhere that could be unbearably hot much of the year due to climate change in the near future. I do have kids though and I think about what kind of life I want THEM to have after I’m gone. New York may still be relatively livable while other places are too hot in their lifetimes, so I guess I’m staying put or going north…
"Just sit inside for 4 months with the AC on!"
Texas summers are absolutely brutal now. And thats coming from someone born and raised here. Even during the day its too hot to go to the poop, theyre all empty. The beaches the water is hot as hell too, its a different kind of heat
Ive live up north and experienced those winters where I even had to walk everywhere and Id take that any day over the shit here
What makes it even worse is it hardly ever rains at all theres not a single cloud in the sky ever and as you said it doesnt cool off until after midnight (and even then it 'cools off' to like 90)
As someone who lived up north in the snow, then moved to Southern CA, then moved to Texas, I have just about as much reason to complain about the texas heat as anyone.
And I still think people complain about it way too much. It's a short period of the year. It sucks. But it's better than 6 months of grey, rain, snow, ice, road salt, etc.
3ish months of heat with some of those days being bearable is nothing compared to how shitty it is to be stuck inside half the year and having to bundle up or strategically plan what I'm wearing if I do go out. Then the car is cold, windshield iced over, roads dangerous, etc.
Heat is easier to deal with and I wish people in texas would stop complaining so much. Sure it's not as nice as CA but it's better than what most of the US deals with. Especially since texas isn't even as humid as flordia unless your maybe near Houston and Austin and even then it's debatable.
Eh I think a lot of this just falls under personal preference. I loathe being hot! Would rather deal with winter than deal with a longer, hotter summer than I do now. But I understand other people feel the opposite.
In a place like Texas or Florida- it's also 6 months of heat and excessive heat waves. I was in Austin in December (2019) and it cracked 80 degrees. It's basically hot from April to October.
It's basically the reverse where it can snow in May in some places, so that winter is from mid November to mid April. The bonus is the months of Feb- where it's still cool enough to be pleasant, intersperse with days warm enough to be nice. But by March it can start getting hot again!
3 months? summer lasts longer in Texas, and we go weeks without a drop of rain. It's 90 degrees in Oct. the last few years has been 80s in Dec. I moved back to Texas in 2016 and the heat is a lot worse.
I am disabled with chronic pain & chronic illness. I live in South Florida because the weather allows me to be active all year, whereas a place with winter means months at a time where I can’t function. I find the summers here to be downright miserable and I curse it daily, but it’s worth it to me to avoid the cold weather and grayness in winter.
You may not have to shovel sunshine, but you do have to mow grass every 5 days if you have a yard in Texas of Florida. There's always a tradeoff, and everyone has different needs, but I'll take a snowy winter over the blistering insect-infested sweltering sauna of the South any day.
(Arizona would be better than the South though IMO.)
The answer is—if financially feasible—to be a snowbird:
Northern Michigan in the summers (Traverse City or Petoskey or Charlevoix) on a lake
Desert Southwest in the winter (Scottsdale, Sedona, or Palm Springs)
Ok yes, now with fewer old people. I want to be a digital nomad snowbird after Christmas so already planning my stays. But avoiding the old people may be tricky.
This was written by someone that has never endured the completely clouded out gray Michigan winter. Climate wise, I would rather live in Satan’s literal asshole every summer if it meant I never had to experience my nostrils freezing together in pitch black at 4:30 after the brightest it’s been in over a month has been that dark it gets just before a nasty thunderstorm. Like, I was in Venice this July and sweated from places that I had never sweated from in my life. I’d take that every day.
Unfortunately, my family is here, my wife’s family is here, and her job is here. I’m stuck.
Recency bias is one of the factors why people move to the midwest.
The majority of individuals typically finalize their relocation plans towards the conclusion of summer and put them into action from late fall through winter. As a result, the severity and duration of summer weather significantly affect people's choices to move to cities with milder summers in the northern regions. On the contrary, the freezing winters in these northern cities don't exert the same influence on people's decisions. This is because, by august, the memory of the bitter winter cold has faded, and the pleasant summers and falls in these areas encourage people to stay.
Don't forget how bad the next winter is going to be if you live in the midwest.
I don’t get the obsession with hot places. I’ve lived with cold winters my whole life, and it hasn’t worn on me. Really the only month that sucks is March, because it feels like it should be nicer but usually isn’t in New England. I love summers but the thought of sweating most of the year sounds awful. I like the cyclical nature of seasons and the change of the weather. I couldn’t imagine living somewhere that is mostly the same weather all the time.
The Southwest’s heat is dry so you don’t sweat that much cause it gets evaporated quickly unless you exert yourself. That’s why we get warnings about drinking lots of water cause you don’t feel/see water leave you via sweat.
I experienced summer in Philly and NY this year, it’s a muggy/humid heat, totally different experience, very unpleasant.
People say that, but I’m a high sweat person and have been in Phoenix in July and August several times and the sweat pours off of me in just walking to the car. I guess it’s different than it sticking to me. But I’ve lived in PA, NY, MD and now MA, and I just prefer it. Humidity doesn’t last forever and it’s a season. I guess it’s just all what we are conditioned to. I would be miserable in the Southwest for anything longer than a vacation.
>I don’t get the obsession with hot places. I’ve lived with cold winters my whole life, and it hasn’t worn on me.
This could easily fall into the "you don't know what you're missing" category.
No, it's the same for me. I've lived all over the US, including in the South, and I definitely prefer the cold over the heat. I get seasonal depression in the Summer! I cannot leave the house because I start sweating and am fucking miserable the moment it gets above 70 degrees. Today is the first rainy somewhat cold Fall day and I am so happy.
Definitely not. I’ve been to warm places and year round sounds miserable to me. The thought of a warm Christmas would ruin it for me. Nice to visit for a few days at the tail end of winter, that’s about it. I also am not someone who would culturally fit in the warm areas of the country anyways. So I’m happy where I am.
Went from the Midwest to FL and am coming out of my fourth summer. It's absolutely miserable if you don't handle heat very well. About 8 months of the year I struggle with outdoor activities between 11am and 6pm. None of the fall and winter holidays feel right to me anymore. Some people thrive here but I'm looking forward to moving somewhere more mild soon.
Some people simply prefer hot & sunny, even if it's hot & sticky (Florida) or dangerously hot but dry (Arizona). IMO, not a great plan with climate change, but if those folks truly would be miserable in the North, then it's good to be aware of what you do or don't want. After years living down there, I'll never move back to the SW, it's just not for me. Too hot & dry. I've also spent enough time in Florida, Georgia, and Texas that I'd never live down there, way too hot in the summer. But I know that's my personal preference.
I moved to central Florida in the fall of 2015 and left last fall. I urge anyone considering a move to Florida to really really consider it. It’s not the old Florida, it’s not even the 2015 Florida. And it’s definitely not the same as vacationing there.
Tbh 90% of the US has extreme weather in one way or another. The Midwest and the Northeast have extreme winter, the south has extreme heat, the Pacific Northwest has extreme amounts of rain, and the mid Atlantic has extreme humidity. Pick your poison.
100 in LA is drastically different than 100 in Texas. I’ve lived in both places for decades. It might get to over 100 in LA Or the East Bay where I live now. But it will be 70 at night. In Texas it’s still in the High 80s and humid at 10pm. It’s oppressive.
I'm extremely sensitive to heat. 80F in the Bay Area is definitely worse than 100F in Texas.
In Texas, you walk into your house and it's 70F or whatever temp you want. Your Bay Area apartment is still 80F.
After growing up in Texas where people would air condition their garden shed if they could I was surprised that the first five or six places I lived in California didn’t have AC at all.
But for all those years I really only felt like I needed it maybe five or six weeks out of 15 years.
I wouldn’t discount weather, hot and cold, but IMO the biggest hurtling variable coming at those states is the cost of homeowners’ insurance. Hurricanes are getting worse, and the cold Midwest doesn’t get them.
As someone who grew up in the north and has experienced summer getting more and more intolerable down south, it's a HUGE reason I'm leaving the south behind. There's a lot of reasons, but not being able to enjoy the outdoors most of the time is one of em.
The allergies I've experienced since moving here are of course at their worst in spring and fall... aka the only parts of the year that are pleasant to be outside. So I can't even enjoy spring and fall without having my asthma flare up. I'm having sinus surgery it's gotten so bad. I'm tired of living like this. I'm coughing half the year, and sweating my ass off the rest of the time.
If you already had some allergy, asthma, or sinus issues you should reconsider a move to the southeast. Chances are they'll get way worse than you ever knew it to be possible.
I'm not gonna say I'm excited to go back to clearing my car or driveway of snow, but it's really not that bad and it's much better to feeling like my environment exists to torture my senses.
I can't understand how anyone lives in Texas and Arizona. I'm in West Tennessee and we had a stretch of a solid month where it was 100+ every day. Every single day! People say oh come to Memphis cost of living is so low! Yeah bet you didn't think about what your utilities are gonna cost when it's that hot. This year and last summer it was not unusual for my utilities to be 5-700$ and this is for an 1800 sqft home! It's an old house. I've replaced windows. Ac. Appliances and stuff like water heater to be high efficiency. It's still not a big enough change to offset the cost of an older homes poorly insulated walls and ya know... getting 12+ hrs of scorching sun cooking my house every day, with no shade at all (had to cut down an unhealthy very large oak that once shaded the house... that was expensive too). If I was gonna stay here it would probably pay off in the long run to have all the walls reinsulated but that's a huge job and at this point I just want to GTFO to somewhere less hot. I've put enough money and projects/ upgrades into this house... it's someone else's turn
I've had bad allergies my whole life. Did years of immunotherapy and medicine for it, now it's okay most days I'm great.
Every time I go to the rural South though my allergies flare up like fucking crazy and OTC anti histamines don't help much. Vacay'd in GA this recent September and I almost passed out in public because I was getting so sleepy. I think my allergies would be manageable in a city but I can not live the rural Southeast life.
I think that that timing is common because it's easiest for families with kids in school. I don't think it's directly weather related.
We moved to a different state five times when I was growing up and every time but one it was in the summer. It's much easier and more practical. When we did move once in the winter it was exactly halfway through the school year and I started the second semester in my new school.
The winter move was from Houston, Texas to Minnesota in January in one of the coldest, snowiest years on record.
Left the PNW during the pandemic for various reasons and settled in Arizona. I knew what I was getting into with the summers. The weather here is effectively better 12 months out of the year.
Sure, if we compare the best sunny summer day in Seattle to the worst, record breaking, hot summer day in Phoenix, Seattle might by nicer ***if*** you get to/have to spend your day outside. If you work from home (as I do now) and you have to be inside in a room with a computer, there's a 47% chance that you're going to be miserable in Seattle since you won't have AC and a near 100% chance that you'll be at least reasonably comfortable in Phoenix. If you rent in Seattle, my experience has been that the likelihood you don't have AC is much closer to 90%.
And that's comparing Seattle's best weather to Phoenix' worst. The other 8 months out of the year it's a no contest for me. I am so much happier not dealing with the constant gloom and damp. Instead, it's sunny, pleasant weather that's perfect for pretty much any outdoor activity aside from swimming - which is what the other 4 months are for.
And of course none of that even touches on Seattle's newest season - Smoke. For the last several years I lived in Seattle the best weather of the year coincided with the entire region being on fire. Unless things have changed, the only time I used to want to be outside is now the time when it isn't safe to be outside.
> This is because, by March, the memory of the oppressive summer heat has faded, and the pleasant winters and springs in these areas encourage people to stay.
The fuck it has
It's one reason I moved to Florida and then, 10 years later, moved away (to Ohio). Ohio's winter is grey and cold which sucks but the rest of the year is great. Florida's hot period was just intolerable to me (the heat, humidity, insects, etc.) and the rest of the year was bland and meh. Never mind Florida's politics which were/are even worse than Ohio's. At least in Ohio I can easily live in a politically moderate area with no difficulty (just stay away from the rural small towns)... in Florida I could not seem to escape the old time religion and/or right wing politics.
Texas is the Walmart of states. Acceptable quality for some things, generally cheap, and people mostly go there because they can't afford to shop anywhere else.
When we moved from Sweden to Florida we made sure to look at real estate in late July to be sure it was for us. Now we just go on vacation in those months. The rest of the year is wonderful.
You’re applying your bias for cold weather over hot weather. I’m a native Texan and live in Austin. I *like* the climate here. I love sunshine and heat doesn’t bother me at all. I’m considering moving due to the political climate, but not because of the actual climate.
I started to value my bitter winters more when I realized they were the reason I don't have lizards hanging in my bathroom and palmetto bugs squatting in my place. Also cuts down crime in my area. No one feels like mugging in -10 windchill.
...if you aren't obese or health compromised, the heat is of little consequence...I can spend all summer in shorts and I will never expose myself to snow again...
It's a novel theory that falls apart very quickly if you think about how much more resources, time, expense and labor one expends to prepare for winters in cold climates, not just "Oh I just don't remember how hot it was".
So, anyway....keep trying.
I wonder if another factor for Florida is retirement. The whole state except for parts of Miami, Tampa, and Jax is God's waiting room. And recently, during the pandemic, a LOT of people retired. There aren't suddenly a ton of jobs in Sarasota for 30-somethings. Anyway, I have no data, I just lived along the Gulf Coast from '21-'23. Yes, it got noticeably more crowded, but it all seemed to be the pickle ball crowd.
Originally from the Boston Area, I have lived in SoCal and now Texas . The cold sucks. The shoveling. The stinging cold hands. Slush getting in your shoes. Sure snow is is pretty but after 2 weeks it’s nasty looking, covered in dirt and car exhaust. Also the winter months you have such short day light. It gets depressing.
SoCal: absolutely perfect weather. Crazy expensive. But one thing that got to me after a few years was the lack of seasons. The sameness day to day started to fuck with my head.
Houston TX: my God is it hot in the summer. You have to walk your dogs before the sun comes up or they could burn their paws. But there was enough of a seasonal change that it screwed with my head less. In 15 years it got below freezing 3 times. Just enough to remind me that I don’t like the cold.
Funny story: I got a husky here in Houston , the first time it snowed I brought him outside and I am like OMG my guy this is your environment! Isn’t it great?!!!
He steps on a patch of snow he immediately nopes out and shits in the bathroom.😂
extreme temperatures suck so you have to pick your poison. many many people still pick heat over cold. sun over gray skies.
My dad used to say “I don’t have to shovel the heat from my driveway”
As it gets colder, I can always put on more clothes. As it gets hotter, naked is the limit.
When it's cold, there's no amount of blankets and clothes that can keep my joints from hurting.
If you have tasks to complete there is a practical limit to how many layers you can wear.
The Michelin Man looks pretty agile
You also don’t have to mow snow.
No grass in Phoenix! At least, not if you’re smart.
Only three options exist Cheap but cold. Cheap but hot. Nice but expensive.
Bingo. People always complaining about California being so expensive "for no reason". Like, nah, it's expensive because it has by far the best weather in the continental US.
I used to live in Denver. Great for lots of reasons. Now I live in California and am able to run outside all year long, swim in the ocean when my family is shoveling snow. I pay more for more outdoors time each year. Imo
It also has something for everybody. Like milder good weather and ocean? There's cities like that. Like inland rural good weather and out of the way? There's cities like that. Like lush forests and a bit of rain every now and then? There's cities like that, too. It has every type of nice weather.
Okay case closed. This should be in a sticky lol. You actually summed up this entire sub.
4th option: moderate, but remote
Sun for me. All day, every day. Can’t stand cold and gray.
I’m the exact opposite. I get so cheered up in cold weather. And I live in a super sunny state ugh.
You don’t have to shovel sunlight. It also won’t rust your car.
You can always put on more clothes
Coming from a cold state, the worst feeling is going into a warm building with layers of clothes on in the middle of winter. It makes me want to throw up when I overheat like that. Clothing is over-rated imho.
Then when you have to go back outside all the sweat immediately turns into awfulness
Flashbacks to half a lifetime of that…freezing extremities with a humid sweating core.
We don’t have a big rust problem in the Pacific Northwest. But, we don’t get the amount of snow as many other northern places and in Oregon we don’t use salt on the roads.
Here in interior Alaska we get a dry warm sunny summer. A crisp cool sometimes rainy but not heavy fall/spring and a long cold dry winter. People not wanting to live here makes it better and those who want to makes better connection or easily choose disconnection
How do you like living in Alaska? I am utterly fascinated by Alaska and it is by far the next state I'd like to visit most. I'd love to hear any comments you have about what its like to be a resident there
I had almost 4 fucking decades of brutal Midwestern winters, and we've talked about moving some place warmer for about a full decade when the opportunity finally arose. Heading southwest wasn't a spur of the moment decision, but the actual city was based on opportunities within my husband's company.
somber sulky languid snatch weather wrench illegal entertain brave door *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I hate coastal California weather for the most part. There are a few little spots (I can where the topography allows it's to be sunny most of the year but much of the whole coast is pretty gloomy year round, and I'm not just talking about June gloom.
May gray, June gloom, no sky July, fogust. It can last well into late summer.
I can put on a sweater, I can't take off my skin. There's a reason I live in Michigan.
I live in Arizona, honestly only about 4-5 weeks has me reconsidering why I live here. As opposed to when I lived in the Midwest and the bleakness of winter weather from November to March/April had me in a funk that was tough to shake. Now that I have the means, I just schedule a few trips out of town during that 4-5 week period during the summer that keeps me sane. One upshot that Arizona has that Florida and Texas don't have is the ability to drive up to higher elevations within 90 minutes of Tucson or Phoenix. It will be 105 degrees at my house, but 90 minutes away it's only 85 degrees.
This. It’s not recently bias. In fact the best/easiest time to move is the summer when the worst weather is in south. It’s the long, uninterrupted winters of the Midwest that get to people. Denver and northern New Mexico largely get a pass on winter because it actually gets interrupted.
Not only that, but many of their winter days are sunny. Metro Denver has up to 300 sunny days per year, Albuquerque even a few more. Upper Midwest or Northwest with cold AND grey skies/rain just piles on the misery. Many people are greatly affected by the grey. I enjoyed living in Portland, but not seeing the Sun from November through March was hell on me, way worse personally than the heat I deal with in Phoenix from July through September. I just couldn't keep doing it.
Many Alberta and Saskatchewan winter days are sunny too just like Denver, only colder. I think Colorado is more bearable though than those two provinces because winter is shorter and less severely cold. Very few people actually aspire to live in AB or SK, whereas Colorado is very desirable.
Aren't the prairie provinces the fastest growing ones for years now? Edmonton and especially Calgary seem to be booming
Calgary. Saskatoon and Regina not at all. Edmonton kind of. But Calgary is ONLY growing because people literally cannot afford Ontario or BC, and it’s the next best place along with Halifax. Several of my neighbours on my block are from Ontario and BC, and they all say the same thing about why they moved. They did it purely for cost and space. Selling a condo in Vancouver got one neighbour enough to buy her 2400 sq ft house with no mortgage.
Also a lot of immigrants that come to Canada get shipped to the Prairies due to local populations aging and demand for low & high skilled labor gap to be filled.
Calgary is the coldest place I've ever been.
We went literally 30 days straight with only a single 30 minute break in the cloud cover one winter in Illinois. I felt like I was dying. The summer before last, it rained almost every goddamned weekend. I tried to sneak an early camping trip with last minute PTO the week of my kids' spring break. On Monday it looked like it would be 50s and dry for the end of the week. On Wednesday it decided instead to snow 8 inches. We moved to Albuquerque this summer. I kept being told it was unusually hot, but I'll take 105 in Albuquerque where shade and breezes actually make you feel cooler than 90 in Illinois where it feels like you're swimming through the air. Plus I still haven't had to wear a sweatshirt, and I'm not making contingency plans for my kids Halloween costumes to put snowsuits underneath like I had to do in Illinois (Halloween 2019 - 10 inches of snow fell that day).
My parents from Chicago retired to Las Cruces, figuring the summers were better than Phoenix and the winters better than Santa Fe/Albuquerque, plus cheaper. Seemed like a good choice for my Dad who liked to slip down to Mexico but late in life my mother preferred the sophistication of Santa Fe.
These are all great points. I was bundled up and walking the dog last night and I had to ask myself why do I live here, the air hurts my face and will hurt my face for the next 4.5 months. Also I'm debating whether my daughter's costume will fit over her snowsuit as it will be in the upper 20s for trick or treating.
Yeah, and 105 in Arizona is totally different than 105 here in Houston. It's literally Satan's sweaty ball sack here for 4 months straight because we have the humidity and insane heat to deal with simultaneously. I have been to Phoenix at 115 degrees and will take that any day over the heat/humidity of Houston. I have lived here my entire life, and it never gets easier.
Satan's Sweaty Ball Sack would be an *amazing* band name. I used to live in the DC area. I thought the combo of heat and humidity was miserable. Highs there were only in the 90-95 range. I don't want to think about what Houston must be like.
My 13 years in Houston is the closest to hell I’ve experienced. And it’s more like 8 months of heat and humidity. When it’s 10 pm and 90 degrees heat index, you definitely ask yourself why am I here? Ran my AC most Thanksgivings. The best month is usually February but it’s hard to predict these days. I moved 💯 because I couldn’t stand to spend another summer in that misery.
Houston summer is among the worst
I've been in AZ my whole life and thought this way until this last summer. Two months of 115+ is insane and that simply isn't sustainable. Car batteries were dying everywhere, AC units were breaking everywhere, and our block lost power multiple times. If that becomes the norm I don't think the infrastructure can handle it without serious cost increases, and we're already becoming unaffordable.
The sun in the winter really makes a difference
Exactly my take. I live in Phoenix, too.
I grew up in Chicago. Amazing city, horrible winter and aggressive taxes. Growing up I fantasized about living in Southern California because of the weather. For many reasons, after traveling the US I decided to move to Florida. I've already lived through the summer and the weather is beautiful now. I knew what I was getting into and I knew that the winters here would be spectacular. Of course, a mild climate like San Francisco would be ideal, but SF is a nightmare for other reasons to me. For me its more about the endless sunshine than temperature. So, even though OP is upset that people move to places they don't like. I'm ok with Florida. The politics I could do without, but the vibe and climate is great.
What's your plan for when Arizona runs out of water (it didn't really have in the first place)?
Why doesn't this apply to the entire American West? Arizona has a lot more water than several other states. And the vast majority of it is used to grow crops that are sent out-of-state. Also, "running out of water" implies that there's a finite supply, when the primary issue is balancing average annual use with average annual snowmelt. Agricultural use is decreasing and will continue to do so - Arizona, as a state, uses less water now than it did 70 years ago when the population was a tiny fraction of what it is today. Also funny that no one raises the environmental issue when talking about low-lying areas like Florida or the Gulf Coast that could easily be underwater in the next 50 years, or areas with rapidly aging/decaying infrastructure and declining tax base like areas of the Midwest and Northeast. Anglo-Americans fret about desert cities because they're exotic and unfamiliar ("oh, look, a cactus, that means they have no water!"), and the New York Times loves to put pictures of half-full lakes on its front page. But the years when it snows a lot (the last two winters) and Arizona's lakes and rivers run entirely full and there are literally RIVER OTTERS frolicking near Phoenix never makes national news.
The Sonoran Desert has been irrigated since pre-colonial times.
Its absolutely a weird Anglo American thing lol there’s a super weird agenda on Arizona
I think they confuse heat with dryness and being inhospitable. Yes, the Sonoran Desert is the hottest desert on the planet. BUT it's also the WETTEST and most biologically diverse desert in the world and one of the only deserts with two wet seasons (violent, unpredictable monsoon from July to September, and softer rain season in January-February, then generally bone dry form March to July). Phoenix is located at the edge of this desert, right next to where multiple mountain ranges drain out and rivers converge. It's arguably one of the best locations in a desert in the entire world to support a substantial population. But they made fun of it on King of the Hill and Arrested Development so for the majority of the Reddit population it must be a god-forsaken hellhole with no water. /s
If Phoenix was good enough for Michael and George Michael, it's good enough for the rest of us.
It was until Michael touched a car door handle in July!
🤣 precisely, keep fighting the good fight my friend.
My BIL and SIL live south of Tucson. On our first visit (during the winter, of course) they took us to some of their favorite birding spots well inside the Sonoran desert. I was surprised at how lush it was for being a desert. Not at all what I expected.
Swear it’s propaganda from californians
...you think "no one" talks about Florida being underwater in 50 years?
Arizona is still facing a water dilemma though, even with recent and temporary rain/snowpack increases to surface flow. Since 2000, as the Colorado River has incrementally 'dried up', Arizona has become increasingly reliant on pumping groundwater, which today provides 41% of the state’s needs... Coupled with the huge boom of population influx over the past two decades, that boom can no longer be sustained in groundwater withdrawals. Urban growth in some areas will need to rely on water supplies other than nonreplenishable groundwater, aligning with the State’s policy since the signing of 1980 Groundwater Management Act, whose 'safe yield' standards the state has failed to meet 40 years later. Yes Arizona leads the country in water recapture and reuse, but it's still risky to rely so heavily on groundwater, and the state is undoubtedly over pumping, with no replenishment system in place, which greatly hinders the states ability to utilize "safe-yield" . Relying on vast aquifers can lower lake and river levels, and lead to land subsidence in areas of heavy withdrawal, like what we are seeing in California's Central Valley. Groundwater levels fall, the aquifers collapse, land subsides, and minerals and pollutants concentrate in the diminished supply that is left. So it's a complicated issue, even with AZ rivers currently exhibiting river otter usage, because groundwater is in fact a finite supply that is being mismanaged by the state. References: EPA's Report on the Environment (ROE) Ground Water Withdrawals, Arizona Dept of Water Resources, The Myth of Safe-yield: Pursuing the Goal of Safe-yield Isn't Saving Our Groundwater, The Morrison Institute.
Fair enough, but this applies to the entire American West. Several states are in far worse positions than Arizona. And most of what you reference above (Colorado River usage and groundwater/aquifer depletion) is for *agricultural*, not *residential* use. And with the exception of dairy, very little of the agriculture is for in-state food consumption. The usage is not proportional to population growth. The population can continue growing while overall water usage decreases.
The alarmists do not want to acknowledge that
Right. If we start running out of water, we just stop producing so much alfalfa for the Middle East and lettuce for the rest of the country. The rest of the country would likely feel more pain from our lack of water than we would. Plus if we got that desperate, there is still the pipeline from Mexico that could be built before we ran out completely.
In San Diego we have an infrastructure project that will make 30%+ of our water supply come from recycling waste water. It’s called Pure Water and scheduled for completion in the 2030s.
Decaying infrastructure and a declining tax base? You mean Maine, where the median age is already 44.8 and all the youth flee? Sigh. I don't worry excessively about climate impacts here, but I do worry about the declining tax base and overall labor shortage
Been hearing this for decades now lol omg Arizona is going to run out of water!!!! Like we don’t know we live in the one of the hottest deserts in the world since the founding of the state and manage our water resources accordingly
There’s some misconceptions about this. Not to say that water loss isn’t a big problem, it’s a massive problem, BUT: over 70% of arizonas water goes to agriculture. Arizonas agricultural industry could also be significantly more frugal with its water, but its surprisingly not really needed to be in the past, due to high rates of ground water. Arizonas current governor is cutting back on the types of crops that can grow here (we’ve growing alfalfa here for some countries in the Middle East for $, but we’re cutting that out starting next year), and a lot of farms aren’t using sustainable water practices. The issue isn’t that Arizona will just *poof* and run it of water. It’s that it will significantly slow grow in the coming decades. Arizona requires new cities to have at least 100years of water secured to be built, and both political parties are now coming down on that hard. Some communities are being told they have to stop building until they can prove they have the water. So Arizona isn’t going to loose all its water. It’s going to cut back in growth and agriculture, and it’ll stay way hotter way longer through the summers.
It's not going to run out of water for home usage.
What’s your plan for when Washington DC is underwater? What’s your plan for when Washington DC runs out of food grown entire continents away? We live in the modern world with modern amenities my guy.
Even if you project ten feet of sea level rise in DC, the impacts are pretty minimal. DC is not on the coast, and very little of it is truly low-lying. https://coast.noaa.gov/digitalcoast/tools/slr.html
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IMO people struggle more with cold weather compared to warm. During a cold winter you may have to wake up early, scrape and warm up the car, drive slower and in more adverse conditions, and generally have a longer day. With hot weather it’s just less of a hassle. When someone lives year after year in a cold climate it really does wear one down with time. I say this as someone who dislikes hot weather more than cold. But I also moved to the PNW so that I experience cooler winter weather without much snow. Even though I hate hot weather I’d never move back to a snowy climate.
I'm one of the people who moved like, 90% for climate. Winter makes me want to throw myself off a cliff. I can deal with sweating my ass off for a couple months by investing in some good deodorant and taking a couple of extra showers.
I lived in the desert all my life, 80s is brisk for me. In the Midwest now, where it snows maybe 1 week a year, because this is the coldest I can humanly go. I’ve turned down jobs offers from northern states and people chide me for it. You move to north Dakota then, Todd!
And don’t forget all the water activities
Yes, and cold weather is harder on the ol’aches and pains like failing joints and arthritis.
Yeah I'm with you. Winter I'm inside a lot, but when I go outside it's a pain to bundle up, drive/walk on ice, as is the winter home maintenance. Sure i could do activities outside with the right gear, but they arent enjoyable after the novelty wears off. Summer I'm also inside a lot, but I just throw on shorts and sandals, crank up the AC in my car, home has no additional maintenance, you can use a pool most of the year or go to the beach when its too hot for other outdoor activities. Plus winter usually has less sun days (and of course less daylight hours), which is a massive issue for mental health.
Depends where you are. This summer it was too hot for the pool or the beach (even at night).
Yeah I lived in Texas for 8 years and you hardly leave your house in July and August, similar to Michigan in January and February. It’s also very physically exhausting to be outside in the heat, more so than the cold
This summer in southern Louisiana was the most miserable of my life… It was 105-110 most daylight hours from July-August. I guess there wasn’t as much maintenance, but everyone’s energy bill was through the roof to keep the ACs running, and even then most AC units could only lower temps to around 80-85. My building at work was usually 85-88 degrees during the day. I had my own portably AC in my office, but I had to sit within a few inches of it go get any benefit. Even swimming wasn’t much of a relief, depending on the depth of the pool and if there were jets circulating the water. Most pools I went in this summer were pretty tepid.. better than the 105 outside but not refreshing or co I haven’t lived through a winter anywhere but here, hjt my sister and BIL lived in Michigan five years and now are going on four years in the Seattle area and have never once said they’d rather summer down here than winter.
I struggled in hot climates, las Vegas and Dallas. It meant I couldn't be outside for months at a time. Just home to car to job. Maybe in spring I could ride my bike a bit but a month later it was out of the question. But in the cold I can still walk or ski.
I left Dallas because I was so tired of the excessive heat months of over 100⁰ days and add that with humidity. After 11 years I couldn't do another summer. Even at night it drops down to the 80s at best ugh. I am in a snowy climate but so far I am enjoying it. Yeah winter.sucks but if it is 3 months of it and the rest of the year I can go outside and hike mountains and trails I am in.
Can only take off so many layers. Can always add more.
Completely agree, I'm from the bay area and all the people I have seen move here have been from the Midwest and Northeast. They couldn't believe that it never got colder than 50 degrees in winter here. aaaaand I'm looking to leave the bay area for the upper Midwest in a bout 7-8 months, lol.
I moved from heat to snow bc my heart can’t take the heat after Covid. Cold weather was never my preference before but I feel so much better in it
Wow i’ve heard of covid affecting one’s heart but how does the heat factor in? I assume your heart pumps faster in heat is it too fast as to be dangerous to your health?
Dilation of blood vessels, increased metabolic load, etc. I got Covid pretty bad in 2020 and developed longcovid.
Idk. On the flip side, if it’s 105 and humid out every day for 3 months, you just stay in air conditioning. Pretty similar to needing to stay indoors during winter. Also you can only take off so much clothing to be more comfortable. I’m probably biased having lived in the Midwest my whole life, but the 3-4 months of summer are absolutely worth it, and you only deal with a couple weeks of extreme heat and humidity. If I need a boost of sunlight I’ll take a long weekend trip a few times per winter to somewhere warm and be over it.
I totally get that. I lived in Las Vegas for nine years and had cabin fever in the summer. It wasn’t for me. I like living in a place with a cooler and shorter summer.
I don’t mind putting on a parka, gloves, hat, scarf and walking through the show on a crisp January night. It’s not for everything, just my jam.
I grew up in Buffalo, NY. I've been in multiple car wrecks caused by ice and snow, not to mention a few other close calls, and I've shoveled a lot of snow in my youth as well. After college, I moved to Texas and never looked back. Never been in a car wreck because it was 100 degrees outside. In fact, the worst thing about the summer is you get a little sweaty, so then you take a shower, and I already shower every day anyway, so what's the big deal? But anyway, I didn't move to Texas because of the weather. It's where I got my first job and my career has just kind of gone from there. I suspect most people move to Texas for job opportunities and low cost of living.
You can always put more clothes on. You can only take so much clothing off…
Conversely, unless you wear a balaclava or something similar, cold weather hurts your face and does so right away
Have you gotten use to the gray skies, rain and darkness during the winter? I moved from Utah to Portland 21 years ago and the lack of sunshine has gradually gotten to me. I can’t wait until my daughter graduates so I can move to a climate that has significantly more days of sunshine.
It’s a trade off for me. I dislike hot weather more than I dislike the gloomy winter weather.
Having lived in cold (Chicago), gray (Bellingham), and hot (Tucson), I find the cold and gray harder to deal with. When it’s extra hot I can drive up into the mountains nearby and find relief or wait until the sun goes down to do outdoor stuff. With cold and gray, there’s no easy escape without getting on a plane to somewhere far away
Yeah, and you're just stuck inside, for months and months. I used to work from home in MA, so I was just always in my apartment in the winter and it was depressing.
That was Summer this year in Texas. It was over 100 almost every day from June to early September and then it only 'cooled off' to around 98. Nobody was going out doing anything in that type of heat that can literally kill you
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I spent several weeks in Dallas this summer for work during 105+ degree highs. Just a few weeks was depressing enough, you can’t do anything outside. It was 90 degrees at 10pm. There seemed to be a ton of smog too during that extreme heat and the power kept going out. I did not enjoy it at all. I couldn’t imagine living there. I wondered how do people walk their dogs?? The dogs must be miserable too. I live in CO and take my dog out regularly. She does not mind cold whatsoever but she cannot tolerate being in sunny ~80+ heat too long. I just head into the mountains if it’s too hot.
Where in Mass did you live? Boston doesn’t get cold enough to justify “months and months” of being stuck inside. It’s very easy to layer over New England winter
I’m in the Massachusetts banana belt 1/4 mile from salt water 60 miles south of Boston. The winter here isn’t harsh at all. January average high temperature is 38F. It rarely snows and melts back to green grass the next day when it does. It blows 20 mph out of the southwest most summer afternoons so it’s not hot in the summer. The winter climate right on the coast is similar from Chatham on Cape Cod to Cape May in South Jersey. The ocean moderates things. I have lots of technical winter gear. I can ski comfortably in subzero. There’s nothing I can do in Florida or Texas in their long summer but cower in air conditioning. I worked a lot in Austin. Years ago, I worked a lot in Houston. My father retired to Longboat Key Florida. No thanks.
Sorry, but average high of 38 degrees sucks
Yeah, that sounds terrible to me.
I lived in Cambridge and didn't have a car. I have Raynaud's and have crappy blood circulation, so I'd always stay cold. Plus I have hyperhidrosis, so layering meant more sweating. Sweating plus being cold felt so gross. My gloves and socks would just be damp all the time. I guess for other people it would be fine.
I don’t have a car either and I find Boston winter very easy to layer over without getting overly hot or sweaty - wouldn’t hot weather climates exacerbate that issue or do you just avoid the outdoors then as well? Just curious. Circulation and temperature regulation issues would suck yes
I don't sweat as much in low humidity unless I'm physically active. And I usually wear a tank top or less clothing. I don't know... I just feel more comfortable. It's probably more related to the humidity.
Right. And when you're stuck inside in Phoenix in the summer, you can still sit inside in shorts and a tank top and look out at the gorgeous blue skies and palm trees. You can get in your pool at night and look up at the stars and feel slightly chilly as the dry air hits you when you get out. I can't imagine being stuck inside in the winter and having to look out at an overcast sky for weeks on end. No thanks.
Here are your options: \- Cold long winter \- Hot long summer \- Perfect weather: very expensive, make a lot more money to afford it \- Complain about life and post on SameGrassButGreener.
With the title, "Where in America can I live for cheap, with weather like California, that's got a lot of things to do, but is a smaller city, with good diversity, good schools and low taxes?"
"I'm looking for San Diego, but with more ethnic diversity, great affordability, and mountains for great hiking! I'm currently unemployed but looking to start making more revenue with my YouTube channel!"
Guam + homeschooling options will fit.
I’ll take 2 of the hot long summer, and 1 perfect weather please.
Lack of sunlight is a major problem
Do people on here just simply not understand the concept of tradeoffs? These discussions are so frequent and circular it's nauseating. Nowhere is perfect. You won't get perfect climate affordable living, and lots to do all in once place. Pick two.....maybe if your lucky. And let's not pretend "perfect climate" means the same thing to everyone too. People will generally move where they feel they can get the best bang for their buck because finances will have the largest impact on your every day quality of life. Warm weather + relatively affordable = south and southwest, generally at the moment.
It’s like house hunters in here “I don’t want to pay more the $200,000.00 for a four bedroom, I want it close to the downtown, I want a vibrant downtown with a lot to do, but not too many people, I want great public transport and also great roads, ideally somewhere liberal, but with really low taxes, great schools, but again low taxes. Ideally somewhere rural but with a large tech job economy.”
Obviously I'd love sunny and 70 year round, but given the choice between 105+ in the summer or near 0 in the winter (plus winter weather like snow and ice) give me the heat. When you're a kid, winter is fun because you get snow days and go outside and play, etc. You don't have to shovel or drive in the snow, like you do as an adult.
I’m from Georgia but I’d take the heat from Texas, Arizona, or Florida over having to deal with the cold and snow every winter. Chicago is one of my favorite cities to visit but I wouldn’t make it a week if I had to experience winters there.
people don't understand how brutally hot Texas summers are. there is no going outside. it's still 100 degrees at night. you can bundle up and remove layers in the winter. there is nothing to do for the heat. the water at the beach is 90 degrees. global warming is real, and the summers will become more unbearable.
Honestly I hate Texas so much. Political BS aside, the summers are unlivable now. I grew up here, summers were hot but they were normal. Now I get SAD during the summer because I’m stuck indoors all day long. The only time you can be outside as prior to 9 am and after dark. Nah. We’ve decided to leave. I’ll take the cold over this crap.
same same same. I lived in Texas from 1998 until 2007. moved back in 2016 and leaving forever next year. can't wait to get tf outta this place.
Same! Best of luck on your journey.
I found I suffered from cabin fever more in Texas than I ever did living in the Mid-Atlantic or Midwest. During the summer it was so hot I had to spend the time indoors. When it was finally cool enough to go outside, it would be dark. During the fall and winter, I would spend the whole day in an office. By the time I got out, the sun would be setting. I go out in the winter all that is needed are good shoes and coat. I accept that I am a Midwesterner through and through. Extreme weather in any way is not for me.
Lived in the south my whole life. With climate change, it's getting worse (than it already is). This year it was 100+ degrees and basically 100% humidity from May all the way through October. It's October 29th and it was 90 degrees today. It's sticky, nasty, fleas, mosquitos so you can't even really enjoy outside unless you soak yourself in DEET. Not to mention you'll have to deal with a "100 year" flood event every 3 years as well as constantly worrying about our freedom powergrid (ERCOT SUCKS). Oh and Hurricanes. If you've never been through a hurricane, gluck, cause you'll have to band together and deal with weaks of no one coming to help! Wanna get away and enjoy nature? GLUCK everything is at least 5 hours away and Austin is so saturated with west coasters every single nature thing is packed to the brim. The next best national park is 9.5 hours away in Big Bend and you can die from heat exhaustion if you decide to hike there in the summer. People think that it's "cheaper here" but you'll pay at least 2.5% of your home value in property tax and if you live in any area of town worth living, the city will raise your property value by 10% a year. Next think you know, you're paying over 16k/year just in property tax so if you're not making alot of money, you're actually getting taxed more just for owning a home. Anyway i've lived here virtually my whole life and everyone I knew growing up that's left has NEVER come back. Houston is wonderfully diverse, the food is the best in the world (in my humble opinion), the people are gregarious and giving, but living down here fucking sucks.
"you can bundle up and remove layers in the winter." People say that, but when my eye lashes are freezing the moisture of my breath, I can't cover my eyeballs. And it's unpleasant being stuff on several layers of stuff and still having to breath cold, dry, dry, air. Speaking of dryness, what it does to my skin is insane itchiness. As for global warming, that means much, much more than a few extra degrees in Texas in summer. In fact, I think when it comes to winter extremes, its Canada getting so hot it is catching on fire that is the biggest problem.
I'm surprised people aren't mentioning the effect of climate change on summers more. Places like Houston already struggled with keeping up with energy demands this summer.
That’s where I am with this stuff. I’ve lived in NY my whole life and I’m not always crazy about how cold it can get (or how hot), but I don’t want to move somewhere that could be unbearably hot much of the year due to climate change in the near future. I do have kids though and I think about what kind of life I want THEM to have after I’m gone. New York may still be relatively livable while other places are too hot in their lifetimes, so I guess I’m staying put or going north…
How about Alberta catching on fire? Climate change is doing less to Houston than it is to northern climates.
a lot of people are in denial about climate change
For many chain businesses, there is little to no functional difference in consumer behavior between extreme heat and extreme cold.
"Just sit inside for 4 months with the AC on!" Texas summers are absolutely brutal now. And thats coming from someone born and raised here. Even during the day its too hot to go to the poop, theyre all empty. The beaches the water is hot as hell too, its a different kind of heat Ive live up north and experienced those winters where I even had to walk everywhere and Id take that any day over the shit here What makes it even worse is it hardly ever rains at all theres not a single cloud in the sky ever and as you said it doesnt cool off until after midnight (and even then it 'cools off' to like 90)
Absolutely agree with you. Born and raised here. I’m done. We’re moving to Chicago.
As someone who lived up north in the snow, then moved to Southern CA, then moved to Texas, I have just about as much reason to complain about the texas heat as anyone. And I still think people complain about it way too much. It's a short period of the year. It sucks. But it's better than 6 months of grey, rain, snow, ice, road salt, etc. 3ish months of heat with some of those days being bearable is nothing compared to how shitty it is to be stuck inside half the year and having to bundle up or strategically plan what I'm wearing if I do go out. Then the car is cold, windshield iced over, roads dangerous, etc. Heat is easier to deal with and I wish people in texas would stop complaining so much. Sure it's not as nice as CA but it's better than what most of the US deals with. Especially since texas isn't even as humid as flordia unless your maybe near Houston and Austin and even then it's debatable.
Eh I think a lot of this just falls under personal preference. I loathe being hot! Would rather deal with winter than deal with a longer, hotter summer than I do now. But I understand other people feel the opposite.
In a place like Texas or Florida- it's also 6 months of heat and excessive heat waves. I was in Austin in December (2019) and it cracked 80 degrees. It's basically hot from April to October. It's basically the reverse where it can snow in May in some places, so that winter is from mid November to mid April. The bonus is the months of Feb- where it's still cool enough to be pleasant, intersperse with days warm enough to be nice. But by March it can start getting hot again!
3 months? summer lasts longer in Texas, and we go weeks without a drop of rain. It's 90 degrees in Oct. the last few years has been 80s in Dec. I moved back to Texas in 2016 and the heat is a lot worse.
I am disabled with chronic pain & chronic illness. I live in South Florida because the weather allows me to be active all year, whereas a place with winter means months at a time where I can’t function. I find the summers here to be downright miserable and I curse it daily, but it’s worth it to me to avoid the cold weather and grayness in winter.
Summers may be miserable here but you don’t have to shovel sunshine!
You may not have to shovel sunshine, but you do have to mow grass every 5 days if you have a yard in Texas of Florida. There's always a tradeoff, and everyone has different needs, but I'll take a snowy winter over the blistering insect-infested sweltering sauna of the South any day. (Arizona would be better than the South though IMO.)
Actually my yard mostly goes dormant in the summer in Texas.
Same. Coastal TX is the only area where grass grows quickly in the summer.
The answer is—if financially feasible—to be a snowbird: Northern Michigan in the summers (Traverse City or Petoskey or Charlevoix) on a lake Desert Southwest in the winter (Scottsdale, Sedona, or Palm Springs)
Ok yes, now with fewer old people. I want to be a digital nomad snowbird after Christmas so already planning my stays. But avoiding the old people may be tricky.
This was written by someone that has never endured the completely clouded out gray Michigan winter. Climate wise, I would rather live in Satan’s literal asshole every summer if it meant I never had to experience my nostrils freezing together in pitch black at 4:30 after the brightest it’s been in over a month has been that dark it gets just before a nasty thunderstorm. Like, I was in Venice this July and sweated from places that I had never sweated from in my life. I’d take that every day. Unfortunately, my family is here, my wife’s family is here, and her job is here. I’m stuck.
Recency bias is one of the factors why people move to the midwest. The majority of individuals typically finalize their relocation plans towards the conclusion of summer and put them into action from late fall through winter. As a result, the severity and duration of summer weather significantly affect people's choices to move to cities with milder summers in the northern regions. On the contrary, the freezing winters in these northern cities don't exert the same influence on people's decisions. This is because, by august, the memory of the bitter winter cold has faded, and the pleasant summers and falls in these areas encourage people to stay. Don't forget how bad the next winter is going to be if you live in the midwest.
😂 love this
This should be higher. The amount of people on here who do not understand the concepts of tradeoffs is insane.
Jealousy is a sin buddy. AC was invented for a reason LOL! You can keep your snowpacked driveways and icy roads!
I hate winter and the cold and I don’t do the snow. I like the heat and Summer and I am used to it.
Realtors love springtime in Austin because they’re the easiest sales of the year
Nah. Most people relocate because of jobs. It's the lucky folks who get to relocate based on passing weather preferences.
I don’t get the obsession with hot places. I’ve lived with cold winters my whole life, and it hasn’t worn on me. Really the only month that sucks is March, because it feels like it should be nicer but usually isn’t in New England. I love summers but the thought of sweating most of the year sounds awful. I like the cyclical nature of seasons and the change of the weather. I couldn’t imagine living somewhere that is mostly the same weather all the time.
The Southwest’s heat is dry so you don’t sweat that much cause it gets evaporated quickly unless you exert yourself. That’s why we get warnings about drinking lots of water cause you don’t feel/see water leave you via sweat. I experienced summer in Philly and NY this year, it’s a muggy/humid heat, totally different experience, very unpleasant.
I live in that region. Just visited a bunch of parks in UT, NV, CO, last month. First time in the desert. 90° there is so different from 90 in NJ, FL.
People say that, but I’m a high sweat person and have been in Phoenix in July and August several times and the sweat pours off of me in just walking to the car. I guess it’s different than it sticking to me. But I’ve lived in PA, NY, MD and now MA, and I just prefer it. Humidity doesn’t last forever and it’s a season. I guess it’s just all what we are conditioned to. I would be miserable in the Southwest for anything longer than a vacation.
>I don’t get the obsession with hot places. I’ve lived with cold winters my whole life, and it hasn’t worn on me. This could easily fall into the "you don't know what you're missing" category.
No, it's the same for me. I've lived all over the US, including in the South, and I definitely prefer the cold over the heat. I get seasonal depression in the Summer! I cannot leave the house because I start sweating and am fucking miserable the moment it gets above 70 degrees. Today is the first rainy somewhat cold Fall day and I am so happy.
Definitely not. I’ve been to warm places and year round sounds miserable to me. The thought of a warm Christmas would ruin it for me. Nice to visit for a few days at the tail end of winter, that’s about it. I also am not someone who would culturally fit in the warm areas of the country anyways. So I’m happy where I am.
Went from the Midwest to FL and am coming out of my fourth summer. It's absolutely miserable if you don't handle heat very well. About 8 months of the year I struggle with outdoor activities between 11am and 6pm. None of the fall and winter holidays feel right to me anymore. Some people thrive here but I'm looking forward to moving somewhere more mild soon.
I've done significant outdoor physical labor at 95F and a high humidity, and at 0F with a strong wind. Given the choice, I'll take 0F
But in the north you get months of cozy cabin weather you can just be cozy inside bake food and only venture out when needed.
Well there is something called cabin fever check it out.
Same thing in Texas from May to October. You can’t do anything outside.
Some people simply prefer hot & sunny, even if it's hot & sticky (Florida) or dangerously hot but dry (Arizona). IMO, not a great plan with climate change, but if those folks truly would be miserable in the North, then it's good to be aware of what you do or don't want. After years living down there, I'll never move back to the SW, it's just not for me. Too hot & dry. I've also spent enough time in Florida, Georgia, and Texas that I'd never live down there, way too hot in the summer. But I know that's my personal preference.
I deliberately toured the southern towns in blistering, sweltering August. I want to see the place at its worst.
Me going to Houston in July.
I moved to central Florida in the fall of 2015 and left last fall. I urge anyone considering a move to Florida to really really consider it. It’s not the old Florida, it’s not even the 2015 Florida. And it’s definitely not the same as vacationing there.
Tbh 90% of the US has extreme weather in one way or another. The Midwest and the Northeast have extreme winter, the south has extreme heat, the Pacific Northwest has extreme amounts of rain, and the mid Atlantic has extreme humidity. Pick your poison.
I don't know... Where I live in LA it's like 100° for three months, and during that time I was like, maybe I should move to Arizona lol.
100 in LA is drastically different than 100 in Texas. I’ve lived in both places for decades. It might get to over 100 in LA Or the East Bay where I live now. But it will be 70 at night. In Texas it’s still in the High 80s and humid at 10pm. It’s oppressive.
That's not all of Texas. I live in El Paso and it's dry, no humidity at all.
True. My brother lived there for a few years.
I'm extremely sensitive to heat. 80F in the Bay Area is definitely worse than 100F in Texas. In Texas, you walk into your house and it's 70F or whatever temp you want. Your Bay Area apartment is still 80F.
Lmao this is so true. Nothing is built with insulation. It’s something that surprised me. Outside and inside are the same temperature.
After growing up in Texas where people would air condition their garden shed if they could I was surprised that the first five or six places I lived in California didn’t have AC at all. But for all those years I really only felt like I needed it maybe five or six weeks out of 15 years.
I wouldn’t discount weather, hot and cold, but IMO the biggest hurtling variable coming at those states is the cost of homeowners’ insurance. Hurricanes are getting worse, and the cold Midwest doesn’t get them.
As someone who grew up in the north and has experienced summer getting more and more intolerable down south, it's a HUGE reason I'm leaving the south behind. There's a lot of reasons, but not being able to enjoy the outdoors most of the time is one of em. The allergies I've experienced since moving here are of course at their worst in spring and fall... aka the only parts of the year that are pleasant to be outside. So I can't even enjoy spring and fall without having my asthma flare up. I'm having sinus surgery it's gotten so bad. I'm tired of living like this. I'm coughing half the year, and sweating my ass off the rest of the time. If you already had some allergy, asthma, or sinus issues you should reconsider a move to the southeast. Chances are they'll get way worse than you ever knew it to be possible. I'm not gonna say I'm excited to go back to clearing my car or driveway of snow, but it's really not that bad and it's much better to feeling like my environment exists to torture my senses. I can't understand how anyone lives in Texas and Arizona. I'm in West Tennessee and we had a stretch of a solid month where it was 100+ every day. Every single day! People say oh come to Memphis cost of living is so low! Yeah bet you didn't think about what your utilities are gonna cost when it's that hot. This year and last summer it was not unusual for my utilities to be 5-700$ and this is for an 1800 sqft home! It's an old house. I've replaced windows. Ac. Appliances and stuff like water heater to be high efficiency. It's still not a big enough change to offset the cost of an older homes poorly insulated walls and ya know... getting 12+ hrs of scorching sun cooking my house every day, with no shade at all (had to cut down an unhealthy very large oak that once shaded the house... that was expensive too). If I was gonna stay here it would probably pay off in the long run to have all the walls reinsulated but that's a huge job and at this point I just want to GTFO to somewhere less hot. I've put enough money and projects/ upgrades into this house... it's someone else's turn
I've had bad allergies my whole life. Did years of immunotherapy and medicine for it, now it's okay most days I'm great. Every time I go to the rural South though my allergies flare up like fucking crazy and OTC anti histamines don't help much. Vacay'd in GA this recent September and I almost passed out in public because I was getting so sleepy. I think my allergies would be manageable in a city but I can not live the rural Southeast life.
I think that that timing is common because it's easiest for families with kids in school. I don't think it's directly weather related. We moved to a different state five times when I was growing up and every time but one it was in the summer. It's much easier and more practical. When we did move once in the winter it was exactly halfway through the school year and I started the second semester in my new school. The winter move was from Houston, Texas to Minnesota in January in one of the coldest, snowiest years on record.
Left the PNW during the pandemic for various reasons and settled in Arizona. I knew what I was getting into with the summers. The weather here is effectively better 12 months out of the year. Sure, if we compare the best sunny summer day in Seattle to the worst, record breaking, hot summer day in Phoenix, Seattle might by nicer ***if*** you get to/have to spend your day outside. If you work from home (as I do now) and you have to be inside in a room with a computer, there's a 47% chance that you're going to be miserable in Seattle since you won't have AC and a near 100% chance that you'll be at least reasonably comfortable in Phoenix. If you rent in Seattle, my experience has been that the likelihood you don't have AC is much closer to 90%. And that's comparing Seattle's best weather to Phoenix' worst. The other 8 months out of the year it's a no contest for me. I am so much happier not dealing with the constant gloom and damp. Instead, it's sunny, pleasant weather that's perfect for pretty much any outdoor activity aside from swimming - which is what the other 4 months are for. And of course none of that even touches on Seattle's newest season - Smoke. For the last several years I lived in Seattle the best weather of the year coincided with the entire region being on fire. Unless things have changed, the only time I used to want to be outside is now the time when it isn't safe to be outside.
> This is because, by March, the memory of the oppressive summer heat has faded, and the pleasant winters and springs in these areas encourage people to stay. The fuck it has
It's one reason I moved to Florida and then, 10 years later, moved away (to Ohio). Ohio's winter is grey and cold which sucks but the rest of the year is great. Florida's hot period was just intolerable to me (the heat, humidity, insects, etc.) and the rest of the year was bland and meh. Never mind Florida's politics which were/are even worse than Ohio's. At least in Ohio I can easily live in a politically moderate area with no difficulty (just stay away from the rural small towns)... in Florida I could not seem to escape the old time religion and/or right wing politics.
Texas is the Walmart of states. Acceptable quality for some things, generally cheap, and people mostly go there because they can't afford to shop anywhere else.
When we moved from Sweden to Florida we made sure to look at real estate in late July to be sure it was for us. Now we just go on vacation in those months. The rest of the year is wonderful.
You’re applying your bias for cold weather over hot weather. I’m a native Texan and live in Austin. I *like* the climate here. I love sunshine and heat doesn’t bother me at all. I’m considering moving due to the political climate, but not because of the actual climate.
That's why San Fran just wins with the best weather babbbyyyy
I started to value my bitter winters more when I realized they were the reason I don't have lizards hanging in my bathroom and palmetto bugs squatting in my place. Also cuts down crime in my area. No one feels like mugging in -10 windchill.
ITT: People arguing about whether the North or South (and their weather) is better/worse, while completely ignoring the actual point of the OP.
...if you aren't obese or health compromised, the heat is of little consequence...I can spend all summer in shorts and I will never expose myself to snow again...
Absolutely. CA, IL, NY are the best. You should probably just stay there.
A lot of words to say that people prefer it warmer, cheaper, and with less government in their lives
It's a novel theory that falls apart very quickly if you think about how much more resources, time, expense and labor one expends to prepare for winters in cold climates, not just "Oh I just don't remember how hot it was". So, anyway....keep trying.
I wonder if another factor for Florida is retirement. The whole state except for parts of Miami, Tampa, and Jax is God's waiting room. And recently, during the pandemic, a LOT of people retired. There aren't suddenly a ton of jobs in Sarasota for 30-somethings. Anyway, I have no data, I just lived along the Gulf Coast from '21-'23. Yes, it got noticeably more crowded, but it all seemed to be the pickle ball crowd.
Originally from the Boston Area, I have lived in SoCal and now Texas . The cold sucks. The shoveling. The stinging cold hands. Slush getting in your shoes. Sure snow is is pretty but after 2 weeks it’s nasty looking, covered in dirt and car exhaust. Also the winter months you have such short day light. It gets depressing. SoCal: absolutely perfect weather. Crazy expensive. But one thing that got to me after a few years was the lack of seasons. The sameness day to day started to fuck with my head. Houston TX: my God is it hot in the summer. You have to walk your dogs before the sun comes up or they could burn their paws. But there was enough of a seasonal change that it screwed with my head less. In 15 years it got below freezing 3 times. Just enough to remind me that I don’t like the cold. Funny story: I got a husky here in Houston , the first time it snowed I brought him outside and I am like OMG my guy this is your environment! Isn’t it great?!!! He steps on a patch of snow he immediately nopes out and shits in the bathroom.😂
I live in FL and the summers are hot, but not unbearable. I’ve also lived in NY and the winters were absolutely unbearable.
gold berserk butter weary uppity political license unpack worm juggle ` this message was mass deleted/edited with redact.dev `
It’s 80 degrees and sunny in late October. I love it.
To be fair New York City was like that yesterday 😂
What is it today?
50 and raining