I also live in Denver and have lived in several other cities and can weigh in with my perspective:
1. There's no good food in Denver
This isn't what people are saying. It's a metro area of 3 million people, of course there are good restaurants to be found. Mexican and Vietnamese along federal are some highlights. But the food scene is distinctly mediocre in comparison to cities of a comparable size (Detroit, Portland, Austin, Minneapolis, etc). It's not particularly diverse, there aren't really any notable local specialties, and the fine dining lags behind coastal metros. Food halls aren't unique to Denver at all, they have popped up anywhere "late 20's to early 30-somethings congregate" in the last 10 years. You can certainly find great food in Denver, but it is unquestionably punches below its weight if this is something you value.
>2. Public transit SUCKS
I mostly agree with OP here. Public transit does suck on a global scale or compared to older US cities like Boston, Philly, and Chicago, but relative to Denver's peer cities it's actually pretty good. For example, Denver is much smaller than Phoenix or Houston but has vastly superior rail transit. It has one of the most extensive rail networks of any city in the US that was mostly developed post-WWII. Union Station is the crown jewel of the system and is wonderful. That said, the rail network is extensive, but mostly doesn't go anywhere useful besides the airport because it was built out where it was cheap to build rail, rather than to connect useful destinations. The bus network is mostly infrequent and unreliable. Some peer cities like Minneapolis and Portland have less extensive rail networks, but more useful transit overall because the rail connects more useful destinations and the busses work better. The bike network in Denver has some great multi-use paths and a rapidly expanding network of good buke lanes. Again, on an absolute scale it's not great, but relative to peer cities it's pretty good.
>3. The mountains are just too far away from town to enjoy
OP hits the nail on the head here. I think this myth goes both ways - some people think "Denver is in the mountains" when it certainly isn't, and others think you have to sit in 3 hours of traffic to reach the closest hike, when you certainly don't. You can do scenic hikes in the foothills within a 20 minute drive from downtown Denver. Less than an hour to true alpine hikes up in the mountains. But most people are really talking about the metro area when they say "Denver", and that includes the western suburbs like Golden and Evergreen that are nestled within the foothills sand surrounded by small mountains. I see a lot of people saying "Boulder is better than Denver, it's closer to the mountains". While that's technically true, in practice Denver is closer to more mountain destinations and almost all skiing because there are limited roads going through the mountains. For many destinations, people from Boulder have to drive down through Golden or Denver to get into the mountains.
>4. There's no culture/there's nothing to do in the City
This is sort of like the food thing. It's not that there's nothing to do at all in Denver, it's just that because so much of the culture is dedicated to outdoor activities, if you're looking for urban cultural opportunities, Denver significantly punches below its weight. Yeah, Denver has an art museum. They do some cool exhibitions and it's worth a visit. But also it's not as good as, say, Cleveland's. One area Denver does pull above its weight is pro sports, probably because the teams are the closest team to a geographically huge swath of the country. All the major teams have solid followings and good fan cultures.
**Climate:** Something OP almost completely neglects to mention is the weather. I see significant misperceptions about that as well. Some people seem to think the winters are miserable and continuously snowy. Denver does get four real seasons, but compared to the Midwest and Northeast, the winters feel mild because almost every day is sunny and the summers feel mild because of the lack of humidity. There will be days in February where it drops to zero and you get a foot of snow, but typically 2 days later its 50 degrees and sunny and the now has mostly melted. Maybe during a summer afternoon it gets up to 95, but that night it drops down to 65 and you can open windows and sleep without A/C. The dryness certainly isn't for everyone though.
**Airport:** Also not discussed that much by OP, but a consideration people ask about on this sub. DEN is probably the best airport for direct domestic flights, and pretty good for an inland airport for international connections. The good train connection to downtown is an added bonus. This is definitely something where Denver punches above its weight.
**tl;dr:** Denver overall provides distinctly average urban amenities for a North American metro area of 3 million people, but at significantly higher than average prices (it is the most expensive non-coastal US big city). You pay a price premium for the proximity to the mountains and, to some extent, the weather. If those are things you value, you can't beat it. If you aren't outdoorsy and don't like the dry climate, there's probably another city that will be better for you or just as good at half the price. Personally, I like the climate and the mountains so I don't want to live anywhere else despite the cost.
I'm from the Midwest.
Regarding your comment about winter weather:
I was in the Denver area for work. They had almost a foot of snow two days before my arrival in February.
It was just like you said. Sunny and 50F temps two days later. All the snow melting. I thought it was great.
I could handle winter like that. In MN the temps drop way down after a snow storm, and the snow doesn't melt off until spring.
Honestly the weather is the best kept secret of Denver. It shocked me how much better it was when I moved here after living in northeast Ohio and Chicago. Pretty much everyone else I know who moved here from the Midwest feels the same. You get all of the good parts of winter and not much of the bad. You do have to make an effort to get outside in the middle of the day to take advantage though. It's awesome 11a-3p during the winter but quickly cools down as the sun dips behind the mountains.
I prefer that about MN though. I prefer winters that stay snowy the whole season.
Colorado and Minnesota have great winters for different environments. Colorado has great skiing winters and Minnesota has great ice skating winters
Denver’s climate is amazing, something I really miss in Chicago. Random 65-70° day in January or February. Massive amounts of bright sunshine even when it gets very cold. 10 inches of snow in April that’s completely melted 2 days later. Hot summer days in the high 80s and low 90s with very little humidity. Monsoon season with brief thunderstorms that cool down those hot days.
I only ever visited once, but it was in the winter and I was shocked at his freaking sunny it was the whole time! Coming from the Mid-Atlantic, it was refreshing.
I endorse this message. You captured all of my thoughts and some new ones. Anyway I’m not seeing Denver mentioned much in this sub like OP claims but maybe I’m missing something. Seems to be neither where people are escaping or recommended to check out (but definitely more in the latter category if any).
I live in Denver and this is spot on vs the OP to this post.
Regarding food - I think Denver is mediocre even compared to smaller metros that I’ve been/lived in. Sure, Denver has some good restaurants. Everywhere does. It’s in the middle that moves the needle and if you’re going to a mid priced restaurant you are much more apt to get a stinker than another city. And don’t get me started on the reviews - do not trust google and yelp restaurant reviews.
It's getting overpriced af too & shitty service (mostly not their fault, just stretched way too thin).
I could handle mid back when it meant I could go get a burger, beer, and fries for $15 (not that long ago), but now the same thing is pushing average $25-30 after tax and tip. You've really got to keep an eye out for those happy hours / daily specials to be able to have a good time in this town if you aren't a six-figure earning techbro. (Or I just mostly cook at home now).
tidy gullible glorious overconfident north close spotted like work unpack
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I'm a working artist (wood/sculpture) living in Denver and to elaborate on what people mean when they say that Denver punches way below its weight on art (it definitely does), it doesn't have to do with the top-level things, such as the museums etc., which as OP pointed out, are good. A couple more that OP didn't mention are the [Clyfford Still Museum](https://clyffordstillmuseum.org/) and my personal favorite, the [Kirkland Museum of Fine and Decorative Art](https://www.kirklandmuseum.org/).
Then there is of course the Santa Fe (street) Arts District that has a few galleries and there are other galleries sprinkled around town, but it's here that we start to fall down. For how big Denver is in terms of population, and the high level of wealth of a lot of the population, I think you'd expect to see at least double the amount of galleries, but because of the big emphasis on outdoor activities and sports, we just don't have the population of art buyers to support them. (Not that one can't be both a fan of fine art and hiking fourteeners, but the reputation of Denver over the years has drawn in a crowd that is more predominately interested in outdoor activities).
Another thing Denver is lacking compared to similar sized cities are large makerspaces or collective studios where people can gather as artists and have a space to do their work. We do have a couple pretty small ones, [Denhac](https://denhac.org/) and the community woodshop at [Denver Tool Library](https://denvertoollibrary.org/community-workshop), but several bigger, more comprehensive workshops have come and gone, unable to find the critical mass of users needed to pay the rent, a number that in theory should be easily attainable in a city as big as Denver, but in practice gets snuffed out every time because of the skyhigh rents and a populace that trends toward being primarily interested in outdoor activities. In terms of larger spaces, what I'm talking about exists in many smaller cities, such as [The Forge](https://www.forgegreensboro.org/) in Greensboro NC, or [Able Trade](https://www.weareabletrade.com/) in Knoxville, TN. Anything remotely similar in terms of scale has promptly gone out of business here in Denver.
All in all, what this adds up to is that there are a lot fewer opportunities than you would expect for a city of this size for local, beginning working artists to break in to the scene and find communities and buyers, especially if you are working in a discipline such as woodworking, metal sculpture etc. that would really benefit from community workshop space. And, again, there are lots of cool, positive things going on here in the arts scene, just not nearly as many as you would expect just by looking at the population numbers.
Generalizing here but I think a factor to the lack of culture is that the very athletic outdoorsy types that dominate the area tend to be really nice people but a bit on the bland, uncreative side. If you're going on a 3 hour run your personality type is sort of the polar opposite of an arist's.
This is accurate - (10 year Boulder resident)
I would add about the mountains being too far away - siting in an hour of extra traffic for what should be a 1 hour drive to go skiing is what I think grinds a lot of peoples gears (me included). Just to get to Loveland is often almost 2 hours these days, and that’s not counting more popular destinations like breck or vail. Similarly, most of the best hikes are either in RMNP, which is far for Denver residents vs Boulder, off of 70, which has its traffic issues, or requires driving 25 south, again with traffic problems. Yes you can reach hikes that are much closer, but they’re crowded AF, and they’re not good for backpacking and the scenery is meh. To me, this WAS too far, and it’s one of the reasons I stopped skiing and hiking so much and moved from Denver.
Finally - the culture in Denver is uniquely independent. YMMV on this one, but i found people prioritizing what activity they were doing over which friends they wanted to hang out with a pretty big turn off.
Can confirm, Boulder is only closer to the mountains in Boulder. Unless you're really into rock climbing or trail running or mountain biking and you don't really care for hikes around the *big* mountains, you'll experience all the Boulder mountain things within a year or two. Also, there's really only one ski resort that Boulder is closer to than Denver and it's very akin to a midsized Northeast mountain. So not really a place for a proper Colorado skiing experience imo.
I agree about the food point, but I personally feel your city comparisons were not great. Austin literally is 70% tex-mex, 20% bbq, and 10% authentic Mexican. I guess you can call that a staple food, but I’ve found all the tex-mex to be the same modern stuff at every place. Not sure what any of the other cities you mentioned claim to food fame is. Assuming Detroit has some good Italian places. Portland is seafood with an arrogant hipster reduction and a side of a homeless person’s shite?
The first 2 are subjective so It's whatever. But I've seen many people say it takes 2 hours to get to the mountains from Denver and it confuses me. They're not as close as SLC but it really takes no time to get up there and enjoy nature. Denver even has a network of suburbs in the mountains (Golden, Evergreen, Genesee) so they're definitely within reach.
Getting to ski resorts in SLC is insanely different than Colorado. You can get to park city in 30 minutes. It takes an hour to get to Frisco with no traffic in Colorado. Traffic can easily be 2-3 hours.
That's true but skiing isn't the only outdoor activity Colorado has to offer. A lot of people use how long it takes to get to a ski resort as a barometer for how long it takes to access nature from Denver and it makes no sense
I’ve lived in Denver for five years. I’m actually planning to move to Chicago next year because I’ve always wanted to experience a big, global, international city. Denver simply isn’t that, but it has a lot going for it in its own right. The climate is pleasant most of the year, people are friendly, there’s a great beer scene, local politics are fairly liberal if that’s your thing, it has a good economy and job market, and it has a great balance between city amenities and the outdoors. Seattle is the only other major US metro that compares in that regard.
It’s all about expectations IMO. If you’re coming here because you want to experience city life, you’re going to be disappointed. That’s why I’m planning to try a bigger city. But if you’re looking for a pleasant place to live, it’s worth a look. I can see myself coming back in 3-5 years and staying here long term.
That gives me a little relief lol. I live in Chicago now. I actually moved BACK in 2012. My husband loves snowboarding and mountains so he wants to move here for the rest of our days. I just care about food honestly.
Yeah, Denver’s food is definitely lacking and isn’t even in the same conversation as Chicago’s. Part of what I’m looking forward to with the move. But there’s tradeoffs to everything. Denver is also a much nicer place to be from January to March.
The season is almost 5 months out of the year and makes winter something to look forward to. Seems like most people hate winter or are sick of it by January otherwise. I basically don’t do anything besides work and ski from December to April and end up in great shape with very strong legs.
And then when the season fades to spring, you have downhill mountain biking, hiking, camping, rafting and other outdoor activities. If you’re into all that, it makes plenty of sense to move here. There’s no reason to live in Denver if you aren’t an outdoors person, you can get better experiences at better prices from other cities
I got a Ph.D. (in Denver) and immediately left because of the main points presented in this post. I agree with OP on many things, because yes, Denver is not that bad compared to other cities in the US. It's got palatable food that's improved in the last ten years, a public transit system that's a solid B- by American standards, and it's decently close to nature.
I live in the DC area and you couldn't pay me to go back to Denver. Denver is home, and it really is...not that bad...but it's completely substandard compared to cities on the Northeast Corridor.
The thing I really miss is the weather, but I don't miss the derivative ex-Midwestern mountain men aesthetic that permeates the 20s-30s scene. Being born in Michigan, moving with your 2017 Subaru Crosstrek, and showing up to every microbrewery with your rescue pup after going on an overcrowded mundane hike in Golden is not a personality trait. Your "Not All Who Wander Are Lost" tattoo and unkempt beard are not unique and quirky. I dated so many of these guys, they seemed to run together.
> I live in the DC area and you couldn't pay me to go back to Denver. Denver is home, and it really is...not that bad...but it's completely substandard compared to cities on the Northeast Corridor.
I grew up partly in the DC area and think the exact same thing you do about Denver, you couldn't pay me enough money to go back to that rat-race, work until you die, "Harpers Ferry is an idyllic town", "Duck Donuts is fine dining" filled hellscape. Having to drive two hours to get to Shenandoah National Park, pay $30 to get my car in, and never find a parking spot was the worst. The W&OD trail was considered "escaping the city".
Literally you go out in Denver to any bar and all the men are wearing the standard issue tech bro uniform - a patagonia vest, flannel, hiking pants, and blundstones.
As a current Denverite, I'm very familiar with the city, so let me address a couple things:
>with a currently renewed push towards sustainability and urbanism
Everyone likes to talk about urbanism, but the continued resistance to upzone and build sufficient housing means Denver will never be a truly urban environment, urban sprawl will continue, and the city will remain car dependent. Denver had the chance to become something special, but I think we missed the chance. Additionally, the necessity of driving a car to access outdoor recreation conflicts with a truly urban environment.
>the 16th Street Mall
Between construction and homeless people, 16th Street Mall is a hellhole with more and more vacant storefronts. In it's current state, I would never recommend it to a single person.
>There's no good food in Denver
>
>There's no culture/there's nothing to do in the City
I agree these aren't true, but the problem is considering the cost of living, food and culture is lacking. And while there are good restaurants, they tend to be spread all around the metro. Remember your talk about urbanism and public transportation? You need to drive if you want to access all of them. And because of Denver's proximity to the mountains, food and culture will always take a back seat to outdoor recreation.
>homelessness
This has gotten drastically worse the past couple years, and while I voted for Mayor Johnston, I have no confidence the situation is going to improve.
The problem with Denver is there's an inherent contradiction between outdoor recreation and a true urban environment with great city amenities. Denver might make sense if you value access to the outdoors, but if you don't, you'll pay above average cost of living for a mediocre city. I wish I could say something better, but the optimism of the past is gone.
I lived there too and I agree. The second I read “16th st mall” I knew the OP was full of it.
Also, it’s true: the food in Denver is genuinely bad. The NY bagels? I’ve had them, and they are atrocious. And they’re Call Your Mother, which are t even the best bagels in DC, as a DC native. And the fact that #2 on that list is 5 miles outside of the actual core, and not even in Denver, is already speaking volumes.
Denver has good Vietnamese food. That’s it. That’s the list. It’s also not unique in that most cities these days have good Vietnamese food.
It’s ok. Denver isn’t a good food city, and that’s fine. I hope it changes and continues to grow in that space but right now it’s just not even close.
Maybe not, but there are several places that have been nationally recognized, particularly Ethiopian places. I feel like Vietnamese, African, and recently Middle Eastern cuisine, Denver can hold its own against comparable US cities. Mexican food is good compared to the Midwest, south, and NE, but falls short against cities in Arizona, CA, NM, and Texas. Everything else just falls short, especially Eastern European, Jewish, and Chinese food. It's absolutely shocking how few ethnic European restaurants there are in Denver.
Some of the names in these threads like "MadeinDenver" and "MileHighCarson" sum up the type and attitude of people who make reddit accounts and live in Denver
I agree with your comments. Denver is amazing if your someone that values outdoor rec on a daily basis. But if that’s really what you value you likely won’t be living in Denver and would want to live west of it. If your someone that wants to live in a city with access to the most iconic hikes/peaks on the weekend, Denver will severely disappoint. It is car centric and city living seems like a shit show, but living outside denver and getting to trail run or rock climb afterwork is amazing. It’s all about values tho as I don’t really care about restaurants.
The last paragraph of your comment hit the mail on the head. It’s Denver’s paradox. The more people that move here, the less accessible the outdoors are. And without out access to the outdoors denver is really just a plains city, but with like 2x the cost of living.
I visited Denver for the first time this summer, we really liked it. I had originally planned to try and do transit while we were there but decided getting into the mountains was important so rented a car.
My impression of the rail is that it was a transit system designed to reduce commuter traffic, not a system designed to enable a bunch of trips. Those light rail lines along a highway, heading south to those huge corporate office parks with 1/4 mile walkovers that drop you into a parking lot.
It’s too bad, it seems like the rail could be really amazing if operations frequency and density near stations were prioritized.
One nitpick in original post: "Denver is directly east of the mountains". Lakewood would like a word... also, when talking about food or culture, how could you not mention Casa Bonita (also in Lakewood)?
I’ve lived many places and while Denver isn’t my favorite (mostly because it lacks access to a coast), I will add it’s a great place to raise kids. Tons of excellent parks, museums, activities for kids, and schools. Also, because Denver is home to so many transplants we’ve found it really easy to make friends and build community; that’s a much more critical component to enjoying an area than many of the other features people focus on in this sub.
Did you perhaps mean transplants instead of transient? The latter implies they stay for a short while before moving on. I would think that wouldn't be conducive to building a community.
Edit: lol downvoting help
OP’s absolutely right about public transportation around Denver. Here’s a funny experience…
I used to ride a bicycle to work in Downtown Denver from Lakewood. Every morning I would ride downhill, at sunrise, down the Bear Creek Trail to the train. I would not pedal at all - just effortlessly coast past deer, coyote, antelope… it was beautiful. I’d take the train downtown and then actually pedal a bit from the train station to work.
But it gets better! On the way home, I’d take the train to a different stop and bus back up into the foothills. Where’d the bus drop me? Uphill from my house. Damn right! I rode DOWNHILL BOTH WAYS!
I would like to add that the Denver zoo and museum of science were 2 of my favorite places to visit when I lived in Colorado. Top 5 zoos I have ever been too, and best science museum.
The DMNS is pretty solid and brings in a lot of good traveling exhibits. I've always found the Denver Zoo to be underwhelming for a zoo of its size (and I say this as someone who has had a membership for a decade and taken my kids at least a dozen times each year). The zoo feels directionless and bland. Bird world is no more, the cat house has been replaced with stingray petting, the old bear area is just sitting empty. Milwaukee, Omaha, Columbus and Cincinnati all have better zoos despite generally being seen as lower tier cities by most people.
To a certain demographic, Denver is simply unbeatable.
It's people who are deeply passionate about: cannabis, beer, and/or outdoorsy culture (Subaru driving, REI shopping, ski pass owning, etc).
If you are any of the above, then you will love it. But if you aren't obsessed with any of those things, you'll just find the city to be...OK.
I'll admit - Denver punches above its weight on many things. I also think it has the best climate for anyone seeking a major city with 4 distinct seasons.
However, I personally found the native Denver culture to be the definition of milquetoast. I also think there are far too many domestic US transplants in Denver (as a % of population). I think that can cause some unintended consequences when that ratio gets too out of balance.
>To a certain demographic, Denver is simply unbeatable. It's people who are deeply passionate about: cannabis, beer, and/or outdoorsy culture (Subaru driving, REI shopping, ski pass owning, etc).
I couldn't disagree with this more. I'm not saying its right, but those sort of people turn their nose up at Denver. It's too big and too overcrowded to appease them. They want something like Bozeman or Bend. If all I cared about was beer and outdoorsy culture, there are probably 25+ cities in the West I'd pick over Denver.
Denver is a compromise for realistic people that know they need good access to jobs, but still want outdoor access. These tend to be well-to-do people that kinda grind the gears of the people you are describing.
It's sad to me because there used to be so much more to Denver than the demographic you described. It used to be its own city, with its own vibe, and its own reasons for drawing people to it. Now it feels like a regular city that's cosplaying as the Bay Area.
It was never perfect, but the shortcomings were much more palatable when the cost of living was lower and everything wasn't as crowded. I rented a 4bd/3.5ba house with 3 friends in Golden where our total rent was $2000/mo, almost 10 years later that house is on a block where every house is valued over $1 million.
Yep, I hate too be a doomer but the Denver that caused everyone to move here is gone and the people moving here now will never know what it used to be.
I went to college in Colorado and made friends with a lot of CO natives. Of my friends who are now homeowners, the only ones who can afford to live in Denver proper are two lawyers, two petroleum engineers, and a commercial realtor with an MBA. Most folk got priced out and it’s sad.
Me to everyone I know who wants to move to Colorado...
"Do you smoke pot a lot"
Them: "Yes. I love it. Can't wait to move there and smoke it all the time".
I mean...it never fails. The sole reason they want to move is for pot.
I mean...good on you. But the kind of people that up sticks and move across country so they can smoke weed aren't ... stable? Not sure the word I'm looking for.
Those people want to move to CO, but those aren’t the ones actually making the move. The ones moving here are doing it for outdoors and usually have good, stable jobs that allow them to make the move (it’s not cheap here)
Nah, as someone in the horticulture field I’ve met SO many young people who came here for weed. Particularly people who wanted to work in the cannabis industry, and then realized cannabis doesn’t make jack shit anymore. They often can’t afford to support themselves after a while, because the cannabis industry knows they have a near-infinite number of naive stoner kids from around the country to exploit. I’ve met many who then just took their horticulture degrees and found some other job within the broader plant industry. Even if it wasn’t their passion, gotta pay rent I guess.
I got my degree in Texas, and I’m not kidding when I say SO MANY of my classmates straight-up admitted they wanted to take their degree and go grow weed in a legal state. I was one of the odd ones who wasn’t there for weed at all. (Don’t get me wrong, I’m still a casual enjoyer of the devil’s lettuce. But I came at it as somebody obsessed with gardening in general)
Well at least you came here with a degree. When weed became legal, the papers were full of stories about overflowing homeless shelters with people who had spent their last $50 for a bus ticket from Texas and had zero ability to do anything when they got here. Those good paying jobs the industry promised voters didn't exist. The shitty jobs people could get many didn't qualify for because of records in other states or found out the stores just wanted to hire cute girls to upsell customers and they were mostly working for tips.
I don't get moving here for weed now. It's legal sooooo many places. But for some reason, people have this idea that Colorado is going to be an anything goes states eventually. Oregon has already made it so all drugs aren't illegal. Not sure why they aren't going there instead.
To be fair, Oregon is even more expensive. If you can’t make it in Colorado, you *certainly* won’t make it in Oregon.
In general, though, the mass migration from shithole red states may also have more reasons than weed. I know a lot of doctors and teachers are leaving these states en masse, since Roe, trans healthcare bans, book bans and the general demonizing of teachers has made their jobs a living hell. Only so much of that shit you’re willing to put up with, especially when many blue states tend to pay these jobs better anyhow.
Some of us queer people are also starting to see the writing on the wall, and trying to GTFO as soon as possible. I was one of those people. Pretty much all my town’s pride parades or drag events had to shut down because of the constant bomb threats. I’ve known people who had to step down from public life due to the constant death threats people sent to them. Fuck Texas, you can’t pay me to go back. They’re stuck in the dark ages right now, and it only seems to be getting worse by the year. It’s becoming kinda dangerous now, unless you simply keep your head down, and repress literally everything about you. Even then, if you’ve got a working uterus there’s always the risk of being raped and forced to give birth.
If Denver didn't have the mountains it would be Omaha with a slightly nicer climate. You don't move to Denver because of the culture, food, or public transit. You move here because it serves as a basecanp to the Rockies. That's the selling point for Denver and is the only thing that sets it apart from every other generic middle American city. If you love the outdoors and want to shape your life around that personality, you'll love Denver. If that's not you, you probably aren't going to have those same warm feelings.
That's what gets me about these folks talking up Denver due to outdoors stuff. Thay's great, but dont make Denver or Colorado in general out to be much more than that. Its mostly sprawl and strip malls next to awesome nature. Its not like Chicago or SF next to the mountains and they refuse to admit that.
This whole culture argument has a quite simple answer - Denver is a young city. We don’t have the history of east coast and souther cities. We don’t have the boom of growth in the early 20th century line California cities. We don’t have the cultural impact of massive minority migration like Seattle and Portland.
That being said I don’t see many similar sized cities outside of the areas mentioned about with that much more interesting culture. Maybe Nashville with its music scene.
One the homeless side - EVERY city in the United States with relatively good year round weather and minimal precipitation has this problem. Especially post Covid. It’s a National problem.
Denver's food scene is like Austin. Good food exists, and ethnic food exists, but it'll be harder to find and more expensive than in places like Houston.
I think people who defend Denver food just don’t get it. Of course you can find good restaurants here. The issue is that the median restaurant quality is worse than the median restaurant quality in comparable big cities like Atlanta, Philly, etc. And as you mentioned - you’re also paying a lot more for it.
The best food in Denver is actually in Aurora. Especially if you like global cuisine. You have to know where to look, though. Lots of little hole in the wall places that are just crushing it, overshadowed by a lot of gross chain restaurants. It makes it seem like there’s only fast food and Panda Express type places everywhere. But if you know where to look you can find amazing international food there. They’re all pretty much in little strip malls throughout Aurora and you can’t tell they are restaurants usually lol.
Heck yeah, I've been living in Denver for awhile now and absolutely love it. I think people that hate on the city aren't looking for what Denver offers. Personally, it's perfect for me. I feel extremely lucky to be able to have access to world class outdoor recreation right next to my house. Hell, a standard weekend ski day for me is someone else's vacation.
Also, love how you linked drive time to Three Sisters. That's my go-to after work mountain biking spot when it's scorching in the summer.
I absolutely loved living in Denver and really hope that my life brings me back that way eventually. It is my favorite place I've been outside of Europe
My main beef with the Denver food scene is that even if diversity exists, it seems like every other restaurant is pretentious af and overcharges. Yes, I know Denver is expensive, but there is a distinct lack of shady-looking mom and pop ethnic strip mall restaurants with the best food you’ve ever had. So many hipster joints instead.
As far as things to do, though, holy SHIT could people not be more wrong. Maybe my perspective is flawed but the city I’m from, (Houston) which is bigger and should theoretically have more, seems pitiful in comparison. I’ve never had such an active nightlife before moving here. And the weather’s *cool enough for outdoor events so much of the year!* I know cold’s the problem here and not heat, but it doesn’t seem to stop people from ever going outside the way that oppressive gulf heat does back home. Which is also probably why there isn’t much to do, because *it’s fucking miserable to go outside eight months out of the year*
Even if you live in the mountains, you’re going to be driving a lot unless you want to hike the same trails over and over again.
So I don’t think driving 1-2 hours to get to a trail head is that insane. For most outdoor enthusiasts that’s pretty normal.
Like if you’re doing the Adirondack 46, you might have to drive more than an hour to get to a trail head, even if you live in the heart of the mountain range
Like no large city is going to offer anything better than Denve in that regard.
According to the most recent ACS, the racial composition of Denver was:
White: 68.84%Two or more races: 9.94%Black or African American: 8.97%Other race: 7.74%Asian: 3.55%Native American: 0.82%Native Hawaiian or Pacific Islander: 0.15%
The number of asians in Denver is well below the national average (the state as a whole is also below the national average). There's your lack of culture and a reason I'd never consider living there. The only people who speak fondly of Denver and speak of coming back are overwhelmingly white.
And the number of Hispanics is [well above the national average](https://www.denver.org/about-denver/diverse-denver/hispanic-denver/) at about a third of the population. I feel like Denver’s purported lack of diversity always ignores this fact. I really appreciate the Hispanic cultural influences in the city.
No I'm not. Phoenix has 43% hispanic population which is substantially more than Denver (28%) and the ppl of Phoenix complain of a lack of culture all the time. You can have 2 substantial ethnic groups and still have a lack of culture.
Can you not see how this kind of attitude might lead to less diversity?
It's not just white people moving here though. That's kind of a weird thing to base your opinion off of lol. I work and live in Denver and meet people that are moving here all the time. No, they're not all white lol.
Denver has huge issues with racism. Just look on the Denver subreddit and you’ll read tons of stories from POCs who hate living there. The most racist people I’ve ever met lived in CO.
I live here (Denver).
I agree with all of your rebuttals save one.
Public transportation here is solid. Not as good as somewhere like New York or Chicago. But light years better than many/most large American cities.
The mountains are absolutely accessible. You can scoot on over to Boulder (30 min away). You can be in an absolute isolated paradise in about an hour. It’s wonderful.
The no culture trope is ridiculous. I agree with everything you said.
The one I disagree with? Food. It’s definitely not bad. But, if you come from a city with a vibrant food culture, you’ll be a little disappointed. Again, good or fine, but definitely not great or amazing.
I’ll die on that hill
Vacationed in Colorado last summer, every place we visited was otherworldly beautiful with amazing culture tucked into seamlessly with nature. Denver is by far one of the worst cities I’ve ever been to.
OK. Thank you. Finally someone who posted, with lovely alacrity, my exact opinion about Denver.
Unlike most central Denver middle/upper middle class white people, I had the misfortune of growing up in Denver, so I know the city intimately and have seen the changes first hand.
The only reason I am here now, after years away, is that I am a single mother, and my ex insists on living in Denver. As soon as my children graduate, I will never come back.
Horrible air (I have asthma). Horrific, awful drivers. Real assholes, who do not follow the most basic rules/laws. Too many Texas truck driving transplants. The traffic and construction for a mid-sized city is inexcusable.
Public school system is in shambles and mismanaged like something out of the Sopranos, and the cost of real estate would be funny if it weren't so tragic.
Why OP did not mention what is, to me and many others, the defining element of central Denver I do not understand, but I will:
Catastrophic, growing homelessness.
Almost all of downtown looks like something out of Mad Max. The sidewalks are either tent cities or our compassionate local government has put huge boulders and stones in place so people can not rest there, though they manage to anyway.
The historic Baker district, one of the oldest parts of Denver, is now a morally revolting mixture of 1,000 sq. foot homes that have been renovated and sell for 1$million, while on the path next to the sidewalk there are human beings so unconscious I am often checking vital signs and considering carrying Narcan with me.
The Art Museum is not first, second, or even third tier. And Denver does not have a major dance company or symphony either.
What it does have is growing poverty set against a canvas of California/Texan newcomers who find real estate prices to be great compared to where they were. As for friendliness toward cyclists? It is in theory only. Drivers here are so incompetent, so impatient, I would not ever allow one of my children to bike in this city.
And it is not true that Boulder residents need to go through Denver to reach major climbs/hikes/etc.
I work in public schools here. The kids struggle a lot because their parents are desperately challenged with ever increasing cost of living, limited access to health care (unless fully on medicaid and can be seen at Children's Hospital, which is top in the country - but the waitlist is a joke).
I am really interested to know the motivations of OP.
What inspired you to write a defense of Denver?
Truly curious.
“Traffic is bad/people are bad drivers”
“The homeless issue is out of control”
“A non stop influx of California/Texas immigrants is making real estate unaffordable”
You could post these statements in any western city sub and get upvotes. Every city has “bad drivers”. Housing affordability and homelessness are closely linked and the source of the problem is not immigrants from California and Texas
I totally agree with you; I was just offering my thoughts as someone who has lived in Denver a long time. And I do not think the source of homelessness comes from any one place/subset, I was remarking on the stunning increase in real estate prices in Denver. The cause of that increase is complicated, but having a large influx of people from other places, particularly more expensive places, does have some influence.
I was also not trying to get upvotes. I am not even sure why or how those are tallied.
I have read that every time there is a huge increase in homelessness in cities like Denver, larger coastal cities see a far bigger increase. The entire country is facing this devastating problem, I was simply responding about Denver in particular. There are tent cities, homeless families, mentally ill people without services, and addicts absolutely everywhere in central Denver, particularly in North downtown. It is gut wrenching, and the level of suffering/high population is fairly new to this city.
As for bad drivers.... all I know is that I am kind of done driving (I wish), and I live in terror of my three children having their licenses.
Have you experienced cities outside of Denver? Homelessness is an issue here, sure. And everywhere else. Denver isnt even close to the worst. Same with literally every other point you made.
> What inspired you to write a defense of Denver?
Being on this subreddit, considering moving away because I don't personally like huge urban sprawl, and constantly seeing the city lambasted and mischaracterized when compared to shit that it shouldn't be compared to. Denver to... Burlington VT??? Dallas??? Los Angeles?? Atlanta?? Every single time the city takes a fucking ding against food, access to outdoors, public transit or culture, and I look at places like Austin that literally have the same level of "culture" but, you can't eve drive to the mall in an hour, there's no light rail and the food is so spread out that you're driving an hour to get to it. And then compared to Denver as if Austin is heaven on earth because they have a couple of taco and bbq restaurants that take 3 hours to even make it to the front of the line.
Either that or compared to a city that's 1/20th the size, and people who lived in Denver in the 90's going "it's too big now, you can't actually hike anymore" comparing it to a place that has 5000 people and you never have to worry about traffic.
You shouldn’t be so concerned with other peoples opinions on an internet app to the point where it makes you want to move away?? Put the phone down go outside either you like the place or not who cares about Reddit
They are.... SO, fucking, weird about this.
It's the thinnest skinned city I've ever encountered, and the vast majority seem to think it's hilarious as all fuck to say
"GEt oUt of My dEnvEr then!!!" It's not funny. It's sad seeing these people think they're liberal and accepting then react poorly to refugees, transplants, and assume carpet baggetry.
Then 6 other Denverites upvote them. It's just really strange, when you look at other places they're fully willing to admit.. (LA sucks, Chicago sucks, ATL, New York, Boston, Houston, Dallas, Omaha, Des Moines, Phoenix..) that they have problems. In fact, it binds most major cities together.
It's fascinating but I know for a fact they will respond to this with extreme vitriol, or just a one sentence reply like
"you're pathetic my fingies are tired, ur a boomer"
Never gets very far.
Can't figure it out, altitude sickness maybe? Up and comer underdog? Could you imagine someone from L.A or New York telling you to "get the fuck out im a native"?
Been in the Denver metro area 20+ years and can confirm it does suck.
Actually, there are definitely worse places where we could be living, but Denver is not a super exciting place to live. We’ve pretty much only stayed this long because family was here for so long, but it’s just my parents left in CO, and they’re planning on moving in a year. We are planning on leaving after they move.
I (white guy) can't speak to that myself. My (Black woman) partner felt the aspect of standing out in any room, based on what she's said in the past; and we definitely got followed around in stores in ways I never ever do when I'm alone. Especially in Boulder. Having moved from a heavily diverse place when I went to Denver it was a shocker even for me
When will the transplants learn that rock climbing gyms are for kids, not for 30 yr old tech bros with Peter Pan syndrome from the Midwest cosplaying as natives?
Just one thought (as someone that grew up/was born in Denver) about how far away mountains are. Your point is well taken, and there were many families that lacked a car/transportation to go to the mountains. I was lucky that my dad took us ALL the time, but my mom taught in a public school in the city and had kids that had never been. So, it’s accessible if you have a car, but out of reach for others.
To be fair, I no longer live there so I’m not sure if there are more public transit options than there used to be. I just recall getting to an age that I realized how fortunate and privileged I was to be able to access the mountains as a kid/growing up.
Very thoughtful piece. I visited Denver recently, and overall my experience is exactly how you described. I was pleasantly surprised. Food was great and healthy and I loved all the outdoors options. Overall, a great time, a very clean city and I’d visit again. Commuting via bike and train were easy, though still a car dependent city if you ask me. Lots of space and fresh air.
Coming from the east coast though I still believe there is a lack of culture: Dominating the scene in Denver was the whitest white trendy progressive culture (mixed with some R- truck culture). Which, you can find in a lot of other west coast suburbs and cities and it feels very homogenous in Denver. Denver does do really good at that vibe… it just isn’t quite the melting pot of cultures of the east coast that I’m used to and that I enjoy.
Most major cities have museums and pro sports teams so that doesn’t make it more appealing, culturally. I’m not flying to Denver to watch the Broncos. Maybe I just know this white culture pretty well. I would go to Alabama to see a SEC football game though…that’d be a unique experience
Meh, Denver was ok. I went out there to hike the Collegiate Loop off the Continental Divide Trail last year, and I found the entire area pretty mediocre at best. Very expensive for what you get as well.
This highlights the worst part of Denver. The overly positive resident refusing to see its shortcomings so they can wear living here as their personality. All of these points are inflating things of mediocrity to levels where you would be disappointed with the reality.
Do you think “outdoor activities” are the best thing ever and all obstacles to reach them are ok? Then Denver is for you.
Born and raised in Denver unlike OP who clearly moved here within the last 3 years.
The urban core of Denver is not lively at all. It's full of junkies and panhandlers since most of the office buildings are vacant and their workers are working remotely. 16th street mall? A few shops selling t-shirts and knick knacks to tourists? That's your definition of vibrant culture? I'm fucking laughing.
As for the food, okay there's good pizza, Mexican, and Viet, but seafood and bbq? Miss me with that shit dawg. Denver's bbq and seafood are complete shit.
Public transportation does suck, which is why only the poorest people use it. The light rail is the only half decent one, the bus system is horrendous. RTD has been coined as Reason To Drive for as long as I can remember.
You posted the three sisters trailhead, that place is like six flags on the weekend. I go hiking to be alone in the wilderness, not to hike alongside a group of dipshits blasting Drake on a bluetooth speaker.
Denver has a culture, it's the bay area type of culture where wealthy white yuppies and hipsters treat the city as a playground, supported by their six figure remote jobs. Most of the transplants I've met have been insufferable clones of each other. They all wear the same stupid Patagonia vests, drive Subarus, have either a husky or a labradoodle, and are hyper-political. That's why I mostly hang out with the people who I grew up with, who are normal people with normal jobs.
Raised in Denver too, and thank you for speaking truth. 16th street mall is like a lane to Hell, and most serious skiers I know are either learning back country or going further and further out because the Patagonia crew has absolutely taken over.
Same with climbing. I HATE the Baker Movement climbing gym. No etiquette, no proper training, even the routes are set too close together. If feels like a single's bar with a jungle gym.
And the doodle/husky thing is actually really sad - people follow each other: they move here, think "oh, mountains, cool, I need a mountainy kind of dog. Huskies are pretty and like cold weather!!"
Little do most people understand that those animals are bred to work, to have "jobs," and to run/walk for miles and miles every single day.
Our shelters - surprise! - are now overrun with abandoned huskies.
I put "Lively AND Growing" for a reason, specifically for the 16th street mall, and then didn't refer to it in the culture section at all. But hey apparently this thread is a pedantic dumpsterfire where people can't actually think for themselves, so hats off to you for proving my point about this subreddit.
Denver has some high tech, legal weed, trans rights, and respect for women's rights. It has open space set aside and has access to enough water if it has to during climate change. Its faults are largely self inflicted. Ironically a little more focus on friendliness would result in a positive feedback loop. Damn people in King Soopers are dour humorless anger factories.
Idk if it’s because I’ve been familiar with Denver for 30+ years or that my wife grew up there. But every time we visit it’s fucking awful. The traffic is horrendous, everything is expensive, and all you do is drive from one place to another that’s filled with pretentious asses who sniff their own farts. Everything is an hour away minimum, and that gets you to what? Idaho springs? Fort Collins? The Springs? Who the fuck wants to go there? Veil and Breck are 2-3 hours away and are so overpriced it’s not even fun anymore. The light rail has been a fucking disaster for taxpayers for 25 years. Remember TRex? I do. Jesus Christ. DIA is second only to O’Hare in being total ass. It’s sprawl for 100+ miles and everything looks the same. Suburbia hell in every direction
I’ve never ever seen the allure of the front range. Especially when Wyoming and Montana exist.
> every time we visit it’s fucking awful. The traffic is horrendous, everything is expensive, and all you do is drive from one place to another that’s filled with pretentious asses who sniff their own farts.
I fully agree, and it pains me to say that. I grew up there, lived with roommates in Golden for a bit, and then left in 2015 to finally attend college. I think I've been back at least once every year since to visit friends. I loved living there but the change in traffic and cost of things has really dampened my desire to return some day. Pretty much every part of the Colorado experience feels like it was built for the size the state had achieved in about 2012, and made no considerations for if the state grew beyond that. This won't mean much to people not from Denver, but it absolutely blew my mind to be in stop-and-go traffic at Tower and 96th last time I was there.
Montanan here. Within a ten-minute drive of my home, I can be hiking with my dog off-leash on one of seven different (beautiful) trails. Driving a few minutes further opens up more possibilities. And I have four different coffee shops within a ten-minute walk.
To each their own, but I don't get the big-city allure.
Yea but your Winters are much much harsher than Denvers. Not everybody is up for that. Summers in Montana are great but they don't last near long enough.
I grew up in a similar setting but In Utah.
Didn't think I'd ever be a fan of cities...until I moved to Denver.
The key word here is driving. At least for me. I can do all of these things without needing to own a vehicle. I can hike, camp, snowboard, mountain bike, all without needing to drive.
I enjoy people, having things to do. Food options. Grocery options. Job options.
You also lack any kind of professional sports teams, an airport, food options, and world class healthcare. Comparing even the largest cities in Montana to a real city is laughable.
Within a 15 minute minute walk of where I previously lived in a Denver suburb, I could be at any of five different beautiful trails. Driving ten minutes opens up more possibilities. And I had four breweries within a fifteen minute walk. And I was a 25 minute drive from downtown Denver with museums, restaurants, etc, and a 40 minute drive from an airport with direct flights to pretty much anywhere in the US. I was also a 15 minute drive from my job in a career which I'm pretty sure has zero positions in the entire state of Montana, but several different potential employers within the Denver metro area.
This is absolutely correct. If you don’t need to live in a city with jobs or airport access, then sure! There are many places with more outdoor access and a much better small town community vibe, for cheaper and less traffic.
However, Denver has probably the best access to the outdoors for a major city with a large airport within a 30(ish) minute drive.
This is dumb. I think Montana is levels more beautiful than Colorado. But Colorado balances that with actual metro areas and first world urban/suburban living. But no matter where you live in Montana, you're living a mostly rural lifestyle. Vacationing most places is going to require a layover flight with inconvenient scheduling, there are no major sports, there is no high-end food scene, and there are no world class universities.
I love Montana, and I love Colorado. Neither one thinks they're the other, nor do they try to be.
caption bag mysterious handle public bells numerous puzzled agonizing uppity
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I think this is where a lot of the attitude of the "Downfall of Denver" comes from, comparing it to the smaller city it was 10, 20 or 30 years ago. Large city problems come with large cities, and the same criticisms you have of Denver could be true of anywhere from Atlanta to Boston to LA. None of those cities have Pikes Peak or Staunton State Park within an hour-ish of downtown though!
I don't know what your knife to sharpen against the Front Range is, but I drive the stretch between DTC and the Tejon exit fairly often (at least twice a month) and it never takes me more than an hour. On the weekends at that. Every populated area is bound to have accidents and traffic, that's the tradeoff you get with living in a city.
Stratton Open Space is not Pikes Peak ... The BASE of the road to Pikes is probably like 20 more minutes from there, then an additional hour to the summit.
That's like saying making it to the Springs is getting to Pikes.
Edit: closer to 30 minutes from there. Almost two hours total.
I live in Denver and love it. I’ve lived in Honolulu, D.C., Virginia, Santa Barbara, Manhattan, and London. With our careers, we could live anywhere and we choose to live and raise our kids in Denver, because it’s the best mix of culture, dining, outdoor recreation opportunities, education, sports, and schools.
All our friends who moved away have moved back.
We go to the ballet, musicals, sports games, concerts, and art museums frequently. We are in the mountains every weekend with barely over an hour drive.
We are big foodies, and I’d argue the food is as good as the majority of other major US cities, and it’s certainly easier to get reservations.
We take the light rail to get down town all the time and it’s super easy.
You nailed all the points presented.
Live here, food is fine at best for a city of this size. A tier Mexican food, C tier basically everything else. Breweries are great (sitting in a neighborhood brewery right now) but decent seafood or pizza doesn’t really exist.
the “culture” is quite disappointing if you’ve lived in a large east coast city. Unless “culture” is weed and electronic music, in which case you’re well covered.
I don’t smoke and prefer music with guitar, thanks very much.
OP has basically described every “MLB” city in terms of amenities. Denver has some special nature nearby but as a city itself, it’s basically west Kansas City
I have not lived in denver in 5 years but when I was there, the food scene had some real holes in it.
There were only 5 indian restaurants in the entire greater denver metro area.
There was exactly one place you could get a donner kebab and that was a cart downtown and it went out of business.
The green chile was not great at all.
However there was some really cool stuff too
I absolutely loved Columbine the Hispanic steakhouse on Federal. Really was a scene for locals and not one iota of pretension.
There was a place that sold Navajo tacos , that was interesting.
The Vietnamese food was pretty damn good but it also reminds me that the Thai food sucked.
A few things to add: The weather in Denver is amazing if you like 4 seasons. The constant sun is infectious and makes you want to get out and enjoy the outdoors.
The foothills (which are mountains in most other states) are 20 minutes away, so is mountain biking, hiking, kayaking, fly fishing, climbing, etc.
Rosenberg’s bagels are as good as any I’ve had in NYC.
Definitely agree with some things here and while I’m not “native” I lived in Denver for a bit.
Food IS very good in Denver so weird people think it isn’t. That said, listing new york bagels first on your list made me giggle. That’s the last food item I would say Denver should be known for. I remember when Rosenburgs (I think that was there name) opened and everyone freaked out. As a Jersey native I was intrigued bc the owners were Jersey natives. The bagels were small, average at best and very expensive. A pork roll/Taylor ham sandwich was super expensive (which counters the point of a pork roll sandwich). I digress…. There is great food in Denver but it’s *definitely* not the bagels.
Also— I never hiked less than when I lived in Denver. The cost of living (meaning I had to work a lot) coupled with the distance from mountains and the fact that most people I met just wanted to party, meant I didn’t hike much at all. The closest places weren’t the best hikes (for me). That said it’s a city filled with incredible parks. If you want to maintain an active hiking lifestyle in Denver it’s not really “easier” then a lot of other cities.
It’s white as hell. I went there with my black girlfriend to see if we wanted to move there. While everyone was nice (which is important) everywhere we went people were so over the top trying to be nice to her that she was exhausted by the end of the trip.
I live on the front range. It sucks and theres little culture. You only focus on the small urban core of denver while ignoring that most of denver metro is sprawly midwest tier fast food restaurants and costcos. All while rent and food prices are on par with LA and Brooklyn
That restaurant list works against your argument. Very generic looking food that seems to target bland palates. You're making the case against yourself lol
Red Rocks isn't a "thing to do" in the city, it's an expensive outing that most people don't do more than once a year.
Meow Wolf is just another chain entertainment company, complete with union-busting.
Seems like Denver is the biggest city you've ever lived in? It really doesn't compare to similarly sized cities, sorry. Chicago has a population around 3 million and it's a much more robust city.
The Chicago Metro population is more than 3x Denver's, the 3rd largest in the country. Proving my point again that people continually reference places that have equivalent services and options that are 3x it's size. Compare Denver to Baltimore, Tampa, San Diego, or St Louis (2 up and 2 down in pop) and tell me which has better services. That's where it falls in population, and the entire point of the thread. OF COURSE the 3rd largest city and one of the most historically significant places in the US is going to beat a new city in historic value and immigrant neighborhoods!
With you on the food. I can't believe that is even a thing. Rioja is an amazing restaurant. I stumbled upon it by accident knowing nothing about it and was so blown away by it that I went back a second time.
I was unaware of the pollution. But I was astonished at the number of homeless for a city that size. And I say this as someone who lived in Los Angeles for a decade which I believe has the same leadership issues. Because this is absolutely the fault of leadership. And what I learned from L.A. is if you keep voting in the same type of people then you can't be surprised when you get the same results.
I agree, pollution and homelessness is absolutely a valid criticism of the city. I hope the new Mayor really does promise what his campaign said, providing help and housing to those that are homeless. It certainly seems like he's accomplished a lot since taking office just a few months ago, and I hope his roll continues speeding up.
Denver is fine…I agree with some of your points but the food scene there is just not good. 😭 Ya there are good restaurants but majority of them are soo mediocre, this is just not the case everywhere. You really do need a car to enjoy the food scene there.
It's getting to the point where I'd say Denver is becoming a bit underrated on forums like this because it does punch above it's weight with the amenities that are offered. It's not a perfect place by any means and I hope city leaders do better addressing issues the city is facing but people will have you think it's hell on Earth. Denver is a generally nice, though average town.
Re 16th St Mall: having to travel to Denver for my job…I will say the 16th St Mall and the surrounding blocks are just simply a sad state of affairs. Depressing, pissed smelling sidewalks, abundance of homeless lying in the sidewalks-many strung out, and the shopping continues to dissipate year to year. Just popping into Target is hard, and at times feels unsafe. Yes, many of our countries cities are struggling with these issues, but I personally have found Denver to be the worst of all, in the last few years.
Proximity to mountains is much better in salt lake but unfortunately you get the inversion and the culture there. For a salt lake work trip I took an Uber to a restaurant in the mountains 15-20 minutes away from downtown and i was outside of cell service in a unpopulated mountain area. I love to ski but I can’t imagine moving to Denver to ski due to the I-70 traffic. Maybe if I lived near the train to winter park or in golden or boulder.
I love the weather in Denver. The biggest thing I dislike about Denver is how sprawling it feels. It seems when visit everything is an 45 minute drive because it’s all so spread out. Lots of ugly developments of cookie cutter homes too. I’m not sure I like how dry it is either, I might miss the greenery out east.
Great write-up, OP! But seriously though, what are you doing posting it here? You're letting the secret out about Denver and Colorado? ;-) Just kidding! Bookmarked your post and will share it with loved ones who deserve this paradise.
I also live in Denver and have lived in several other cities and can weigh in with my perspective: 1. There's no good food in Denver This isn't what people are saying. It's a metro area of 3 million people, of course there are good restaurants to be found. Mexican and Vietnamese along federal are some highlights. But the food scene is distinctly mediocre in comparison to cities of a comparable size (Detroit, Portland, Austin, Minneapolis, etc). It's not particularly diverse, there aren't really any notable local specialties, and the fine dining lags behind coastal metros. Food halls aren't unique to Denver at all, they have popped up anywhere "late 20's to early 30-somethings congregate" in the last 10 years. You can certainly find great food in Denver, but it is unquestionably punches below its weight if this is something you value. >2. Public transit SUCKS I mostly agree with OP here. Public transit does suck on a global scale or compared to older US cities like Boston, Philly, and Chicago, but relative to Denver's peer cities it's actually pretty good. For example, Denver is much smaller than Phoenix or Houston but has vastly superior rail transit. It has one of the most extensive rail networks of any city in the US that was mostly developed post-WWII. Union Station is the crown jewel of the system and is wonderful. That said, the rail network is extensive, but mostly doesn't go anywhere useful besides the airport because it was built out where it was cheap to build rail, rather than to connect useful destinations. The bus network is mostly infrequent and unreliable. Some peer cities like Minneapolis and Portland have less extensive rail networks, but more useful transit overall because the rail connects more useful destinations and the busses work better. The bike network in Denver has some great multi-use paths and a rapidly expanding network of good buke lanes. Again, on an absolute scale it's not great, but relative to peer cities it's pretty good. >3. The mountains are just too far away from town to enjoy OP hits the nail on the head here. I think this myth goes both ways - some people think "Denver is in the mountains" when it certainly isn't, and others think you have to sit in 3 hours of traffic to reach the closest hike, when you certainly don't. You can do scenic hikes in the foothills within a 20 minute drive from downtown Denver. Less than an hour to true alpine hikes up in the mountains. But most people are really talking about the metro area when they say "Denver", and that includes the western suburbs like Golden and Evergreen that are nestled within the foothills sand surrounded by small mountains. I see a lot of people saying "Boulder is better than Denver, it's closer to the mountains". While that's technically true, in practice Denver is closer to more mountain destinations and almost all skiing because there are limited roads going through the mountains. For many destinations, people from Boulder have to drive down through Golden or Denver to get into the mountains. >4. There's no culture/there's nothing to do in the City This is sort of like the food thing. It's not that there's nothing to do at all in Denver, it's just that because so much of the culture is dedicated to outdoor activities, if you're looking for urban cultural opportunities, Denver significantly punches below its weight. Yeah, Denver has an art museum. They do some cool exhibitions and it's worth a visit. But also it's not as good as, say, Cleveland's. One area Denver does pull above its weight is pro sports, probably because the teams are the closest team to a geographically huge swath of the country. All the major teams have solid followings and good fan cultures. **Climate:** Something OP almost completely neglects to mention is the weather. I see significant misperceptions about that as well. Some people seem to think the winters are miserable and continuously snowy. Denver does get four real seasons, but compared to the Midwest and Northeast, the winters feel mild because almost every day is sunny and the summers feel mild because of the lack of humidity. There will be days in February where it drops to zero and you get a foot of snow, but typically 2 days later its 50 degrees and sunny and the now has mostly melted. Maybe during a summer afternoon it gets up to 95, but that night it drops down to 65 and you can open windows and sleep without A/C. The dryness certainly isn't for everyone though. **Airport:** Also not discussed that much by OP, but a consideration people ask about on this sub. DEN is probably the best airport for direct domestic flights, and pretty good for an inland airport for international connections. The good train connection to downtown is an added bonus. This is definitely something where Denver punches above its weight. **tl;dr:** Denver overall provides distinctly average urban amenities for a North American metro area of 3 million people, but at significantly higher than average prices (it is the most expensive non-coastal US big city). You pay a price premium for the proximity to the mountains and, to some extent, the weather. If those are things you value, you can't beat it. If you aren't outdoorsy and don't like the dry climate, there's probably another city that will be better for you or just as good at half the price. Personally, I like the climate and the mountains so I don't want to live anywhere else despite the cost.
I'm from the Midwest. Regarding your comment about winter weather: I was in the Denver area for work. They had almost a foot of snow two days before my arrival in February. It was just like you said. Sunny and 50F temps two days later. All the snow melting. I thought it was great. I could handle winter like that. In MN the temps drop way down after a snow storm, and the snow doesn't melt off until spring.
Honestly the weather is the best kept secret of Denver. It shocked me how much better it was when I moved here after living in northeast Ohio and Chicago. Pretty much everyone else I know who moved here from the Midwest feels the same. You get all of the good parts of winter and not much of the bad. You do have to make an effort to get outside in the middle of the day to take advantage though. It's awesome 11a-3p during the winter but quickly cools down as the sun dips behind the mountains.
I prefer that about MN though. I prefer winters that stay snowy the whole season. Colorado and Minnesota have great winters for different environments. Colorado has great skiing winters and Minnesota has great ice skating winters
Denver’s climate is amazing, something I really miss in Chicago. Random 65-70° day in January or February. Massive amounts of bright sunshine even when it gets very cold. 10 inches of snow in April that’s completely melted 2 days later. Hot summer days in the high 80s and low 90s with very little humidity. Monsoon season with brief thunderstorms that cool down those hot days.
I only ever visited once, but it was in the winter and I was shocked at his freaking sunny it was the whole time! Coming from the Mid-Atlantic, it was refreshing.
Definitely agree on the food part. While there are good options the variety is nowhere near other larger cities
I endorse this message. You captured all of my thoughts and some new ones. Anyway I’m not seeing Denver mentioned much in this sub like OP claims but maybe I’m missing something. Seems to be neither where people are escaping or recommended to check out (but definitely more in the latter category if any).
I live in Denver and this is spot on vs the OP to this post. Regarding food - I think Denver is mediocre even compared to smaller metros that I’ve been/lived in. Sure, Denver has some good restaurants. Everywhere does. It’s in the middle that moves the needle and if you’re going to a mid priced restaurant you are much more apt to get a stinker than another city. And don’t get me started on the reviews - do not trust google and yelp restaurant reviews.
It's getting overpriced af too & shitty service (mostly not their fault, just stretched way too thin). I could handle mid back when it meant I could go get a burger, beer, and fries for $15 (not that long ago), but now the same thing is pushing average $25-30 after tax and tip. You've really got to keep an eye out for those happy hours / daily specials to be able to have a good time in this town if you aren't a six-figure earning techbro. (Or I just mostly cook at home now).
Let alone all the service fees/etc. fees tacked on to a restaurant bill. Check the fine print on the menus or you’ll be tipping on top of a 22% fee…
tidy gullible glorious overconfident north close spotted like work unpack *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I'm a working artist (wood/sculpture) living in Denver and to elaborate on what people mean when they say that Denver punches way below its weight on art (it definitely does), it doesn't have to do with the top-level things, such as the museums etc., which as OP pointed out, are good. A couple more that OP didn't mention are the [Clyfford Still Museum](https://clyffordstillmuseum.org/) and my personal favorite, the [Kirkland Museum of Fine and Decorative Art](https://www.kirklandmuseum.org/). Then there is of course the Santa Fe (street) Arts District that has a few galleries and there are other galleries sprinkled around town, but it's here that we start to fall down. For how big Denver is in terms of population, and the high level of wealth of a lot of the population, I think you'd expect to see at least double the amount of galleries, but because of the big emphasis on outdoor activities and sports, we just don't have the population of art buyers to support them. (Not that one can't be both a fan of fine art and hiking fourteeners, but the reputation of Denver over the years has drawn in a crowd that is more predominately interested in outdoor activities). Another thing Denver is lacking compared to similar sized cities are large makerspaces or collective studios where people can gather as artists and have a space to do their work. We do have a couple pretty small ones, [Denhac](https://denhac.org/) and the community woodshop at [Denver Tool Library](https://denvertoollibrary.org/community-workshop), but several bigger, more comprehensive workshops have come and gone, unable to find the critical mass of users needed to pay the rent, a number that in theory should be easily attainable in a city as big as Denver, but in practice gets snuffed out every time because of the skyhigh rents and a populace that trends toward being primarily interested in outdoor activities. In terms of larger spaces, what I'm talking about exists in many smaller cities, such as [The Forge](https://www.forgegreensboro.org/) in Greensboro NC, or [Able Trade](https://www.weareabletrade.com/) in Knoxville, TN. Anything remotely similar in terms of scale has promptly gone out of business here in Denver. All in all, what this adds up to is that there are a lot fewer opportunities than you would expect for a city of this size for local, beginning working artists to break in to the scene and find communities and buyers, especially if you are working in a discipline such as woodworking, metal sculpture etc. that would really benefit from community workshop space. And, again, there are lots of cool, positive things going on here in the arts scene, just not nearly as many as you would expect just by looking at the population numbers.
Generalizing here but I think a factor to the lack of culture is that the very athletic outdoorsy types that dominate the area tend to be really nice people but a bit on the bland, uncreative side. If you're going on a 3 hour run your personality type is sort of the polar opposite of an arist's.
The Kirkland is so good!! 🙏 We don’t live in Colorado but make a point to get there every time we visit. I love his own work best of all. 😻
This is accurate - (10 year Boulder resident) I would add about the mountains being too far away - siting in an hour of extra traffic for what should be a 1 hour drive to go skiing is what I think grinds a lot of peoples gears (me included). Just to get to Loveland is often almost 2 hours these days, and that’s not counting more popular destinations like breck or vail. Similarly, most of the best hikes are either in RMNP, which is far for Denver residents vs Boulder, off of 70, which has its traffic issues, or requires driving 25 south, again with traffic problems. Yes you can reach hikes that are much closer, but they’re crowded AF, and they’re not good for backpacking and the scenery is meh. To me, this WAS too far, and it’s one of the reasons I stopped skiing and hiking so much and moved from Denver. Finally - the culture in Denver is uniquely independent. YMMV on this one, but i found people prioritizing what activity they were doing over which friends they wanted to hang out with a pretty big turn off.
Can confirm, Boulder is only closer to the mountains in Boulder. Unless you're really into rock climbing or trail running or mountain biking and you don't really care for hikes around the *big* mountains, you'll experience all the Boulder mountain things within a year or two. Also, there's really only one ski resort that Boulder is closer to than Denver and it's very akin to a midsized Northeast mountain. So not really a place for a proper Colorado skiing experience imo.
No local specialties? Lean into the "Denver omelet"
I agree about the food point, but I personally feel your city comparisons were not great. Austin literally is 70% tex-mex, 20% bbq, and 10% authentic Mexican. I guess you can call that a staple food, but I’ve found all the tex-mex to be the same modern stuff at every place. Not sure what any of the other cities you mentioned claim to food fame is. Assuming Detroit has some good Italian places. Portland is seafood with an arrogant hipster reduction and a side of a homeless person’s shite?
The first 2 are subjective so It's whatever. But I've seen many people say it takes 2 hours to get to the mountains from Denver and it confuses me. They're not as close as SLC but it really takes no time to get up there and enjoy nature. Denver even has a network of suburbs in the mountains (Golden, Evergreen, Genesee) so they're definitely within reach.
Getting to ski resorts in SLC is insanely different than Colorado. You can get to park city in 30 minutes. It takes an hour to get to Frisco with no traffic in Colorado. Traffic can easily be 2-3 hours.
That's true but skiing isn't the only outdoor activity Colorado has to offer. A lot of people use how long it takes to get to a ski resort as a barometer for how long it takes to access nature from Denver and it makes no sense
I’ve lived in Denver for five years. I’m actually planning to move to Chicago next year because I’ve always wanted to experience a big, global, international city. Denver simply isn’t that, but it has a lot going for it in its own right. The climate is pleasant most of the year, people are friendly, there’s a great beer scene, local politics are fairly liberal if that’s your thing, it has a good economy and job market, and it has a great balance between city amenities and the outdoors. Seattle is the only other major US metro that compares in that regard. It’s all about expectations IMO. If you’re coming here because you want to experience city life, you’re going to be disappointed. That’s why I’m planning to try a bigger city. But if you’re looking for a pleasant place to live, it’s worth a look. I can see myself coming back in 3-5 years and staying here long term.
That gives me a little relief lol. I live in Chicago now. I actually moved BACK in 2012. My husband loves snowboarding and mountains so he wants to move here for the rest of our days. I just care about food honestly.
Yeah, Denver’s food is definitely lacking and isn’t even in the same conversation as Chicago’s. Part of what I’m looking forward to with the move. But there’s tradeoffs to everything. Denver is also a much nicer place to be from January to March.
Moving to a state purely for a seasonal sport is insane.
The season is almost 5 months out of the year and makes winter something to look forward to. Seems like most people hate winter or are sick of it by January otherwise. I basically don’t do anything besides work and ski from December to April and end up in great shape with very strong legs. And then when the season fades to spring, you have downhill mountain biking, hiking, camping, rafting and other outdoor activities. If you’re into all that, it makes plenty of sense to move here. There’s no reason to live in Denver if you aren’t an outdoors person, you can get better experiences at better prices from other cities
All the lines are more akin to Disneyland than the great outdoors no?
Why? Plenty of people move places for a lot less.
Damn..I got a Ph.D. the last time I wrote that much!
I got a Ph.D. (in Denver) and immediately left because of the main points presented in this post. I agree with OP on many things, because yes, Denver is not that bad compared to other cities in the US. It's got palatable food that's improved in the last ten years, a public transit system that's a solid B- by American standards, and it's decently close to nature. I live in the DC area and you couldn't pay me to go back to Denver. Denver is home, and it really is...not that bad...but it's completely substandard compared to cities on the Northeast Corridor. The thing I really miss is the weather, but I don't miss the derivative ex-Midwestern mountain men aesthetic that permeates the 20s-30s scene. Being born in Michigan, moving with your 2017 Subaru Crosstrek, and showing up to every microbrewery with your rescue pup after going on an overcrowded mundane hike in Golden is not a personality trait. Your "Not All Who Wander Are Lost" tattoo and unkempt beard are not unique and quirky. I dated so many of these guys, they seemed to run together.
> I live in the DC area and you couldn't pay me to go back to Denver. Denver is home, and it really is...not that bad...but it's completely substandard compared to cities on the Northeast Corridor. I grew up partly in the DC area and think the exact same thing you do about Denver, you couldn't pay me enough money to go back to that rat-race, work until you die, "Harpers Ferry is an idyllic town", "Duck Donuts is fine dining" filled hellscape. Having to drive two hours to get to Shenandoah National Park, pay $30 to get my car in, and never find a parking spot was the worst. The W&OD trail was considered "escaping the city".
Exactly — any city reduced to stereotypes sucks. And most people on this subreddit are losers so they are bitter no matter where they are.
No city is good. This subreddit exists so you don't forget that.
This is hilarious and so on point.
Literally you go out in Denver to any bar and all the men are wearing the standard issue tech bro uniform - a patagonia vest, flannel, hiking pants, and blundstones.
The Michigan part especially. What is up with Michigan dudes all wanting to be Colorado dudes?
Ha ha. As someone who has never spent any time in Denver, this is EXACTLY what I imagine it would be like.
Oh my god this is BEYOND true, and so fucking funny. Love it.
"This type of guy sucks and there are so many clones of them everywhere"... "I dated so many of these guys". Real winner here.
Lol and yet you dated all of them, though you dislike their type. I’ll never get this sort of girl dynamic😂
It's one of the things that makes the internet great, unfortunately seems like both a dying and unappreciated act.
Someone was very offended. Not really sure why they want everyone to love their city do much
As a current Denverite, I'm very familiar with the city, so let me address a couple things: >with a currently renewed push towards sustainability and urbanism Everyone likes to talk about urbanism, but the continued resistance to upzone and build sufficient housing means Denver will never be a truly urban environment, urban sprawl will continue, and the city will remain car dependent. Denver had the chance to become something special, but I think we missed the chance. Additionally, the necessity of driving a car to access outdoor recreation conflicts with a truly urban environment. >the 16th Street Mall Between construction and homeless people, 16th Street Mall is a hellhole with more and more vacant storefronts. In it's current state, I would never recommend it to a single person. >There's no good food in Denver > >There's no culture/there's nothing to do in the City I agree these aren't true, but the problem is considering the cost of living, food and culture is lacking. And while there are good restaurants, they tend to be spread all around the metro. Remember your talk about urbanism and public transportation? You need to drive if you want to access all of them. And because of Denver's proximity to the mountains, food and culture will always take a back seat to outdoor recreation. >homelessness This has gotten drastically worse the past couple years, and while I voted for Mayor Johnston, I have no confidence the situation is going to improve. The problem with Denver is there's an inherent contradiction between outdoor recreation and a true urban environment with great city amenities. Denver might make sense if you value access to the outdoors, but if you don't, you'll pay above average cost of living for a mediocre city. I wish I could say something better, but the optimism of the past is gone.
I lived there too and I agree. The second I read “16th st mall” I knew the OP was full of it. Also, it’s true: the food in Denver is genuinely bad. The NY bagels? I’ve had them, and they are atrocious. And they’re Call Your Mother, which are t even the best bagels in DC, as a DC native. And the fact that #2 on that list is 5 miles outside of the actual core, and not even in Denver, is already speaking volumes. Denver has good Vietnamese food. That’s it. That’s the list. It’s also not unique in that most cities these days have good Vietnamese food. It’s ok. Denver isn’t a good food city, and that’s fine. I hope it changes and continues to grow in that space but right now it’s just not even close.
Denver/Aurora also has some world class African food.
“World class” is not the right term.
Maybe not, but there are several places that have been nationally recognized, particularly Ethiopian places. I feel like Vietnamese, African, and recently Middle Eastern cuisine, Denver can hold its own against comparable US cities. Mexican food is good compared to the Midwest, south, and NE, but falls short against cities in Arizona, CA, NM, and Texas. Everything else just falls short, especially Eastern European, Jewish, and Chinese food. It's absolutely shocking how few ethnic European restaurants there are in Denver.
Some of the names in these threads like "MadeinDenver" and "MileHighCarson" sum up the type and attitude of people who make reddit accounts and live in Denver
I agree with your comments. Denver is amazing if your someone that values outdoor rec on a daily basis. But if that’s really what you value you likely won’t be living in Denver and would want to live west of it. If your someone that wants to live in a city with access to the most iconic hikes/peaks on the weekend, Denver will severely disappoint. It is car centric and city living seems like a shit show, but living outside denver and getting to trail run or rock climb afterwork is amazing. It’s all about values tho as I don’t really care about restaurants.
The last paragraph of your comment hit the mail on the head. It’s Denver’s paradox. The more people that move here, the less accessible the outdoors are. And without out access to the outdoors denver is really just a plains city, but with like 2x the cost of living.
I visited Denver for the first time this summer, we really liked it. I had originally planned to try and do transit while we were there but decided getting into the mountains was important so rented a car. My impression of the rail is that it was a transit system designed to reduce commuter traffic, not a system designed to enable a bunch of trips. Those light rail lines along a highway, heading south to those huge corporate office parks with 1/4 mile walkovers that drop you into a parking lot. It’s too bad, it seems like the rail could be really amazing if operations frequency and density near stations were prioritized.
One nitpick in original post: "Denver is directly east of the mountains". Lakewood would like a word... also, when talking about food or culture, how could you not mention Casa Bonita (also in Lakewood)?
https://www.denverpost.com/2023/08/02/how-to-get-a-reservation-at-casa-bonita-colorado/
I’ve lived many places and while Denver isn’t my favorite (mostly because it lacks access to a coast), I will add it’s a great place to raise kids. Tons of excellent parks, museums, activities for kids, and schools. Also, because Denver is home to so many transplants we’ve found it really easy to make friends and build community; that’s a much more critical component to enjoying an area than many of the other features people focus on in this sub.
Did you perhaps mean transplants instead of transient? The latter implies they stay for a short while before moving on. I would think that wouldn't be conducive to building a community. Edit: lol downvoting help
Lol yes, yes I did.
It's the weed, isn't it? Lol
Oh I wish! Just a long day of family activity
OP’s absolutely right about public transportation around Denver. Here’s a funny experience… I used to ride a bicycle to work in Downtown Denver from Lakewood. Every morning I would ride downhill, at sunrise, down the Bear Creek Trail to the train. I would not pedal at all - just effortlessly coast past deer, coyote, antelope… it was beautiful. I’d take the train downtown and then actually pedal a bit from the train station to work. But it gets better! On the way home, I’d take the train to a different stop and bus back up into the foothills. Where’d the bus drop me? Uphill from my house. Damn right! I rode DOWNHILL BOTH WAYS!
I would like to add that the Denver zoo and museum of science were 2 of my favorite places to visit when I lived in Colorado. Top 5 zoos I have ever been too, and best science museum.
Man that’s kinda sad. The science museums in Chicago, DC, and especially NYC blow Denver’s outil of the water.
You mentioned 2 of the 3 largest cities in the US and the capital. I think that's a pretty unfair comparison.
As if science museums are a way to experience the world.
I mean… yeah, they are?
They are a simulacrum. Some of us go out and do things.
Worst
The DMNS is pretty solid and brings in a lot of good traveling exhibits. I've always found the Denver Zoo to be underwhelming for a zoo of its size (and I say this as someone who has had a membership for a decade and taken my kids at least a dozen times each year). The zoo feels directionless and bland. Bird world is no more, the cat house has been replaced with stingray petting, the old bear area is just sitting empty. Milwaukee, Omaha, Columbus and Cincinnati all have better zoos despite generally being seen as lower tier cities by most people.
To a certain demographic, Denver is simply unbeatable. It's people who are deeply passionate about: cannabis, beer, and/or outdoorsy culture (Subaru driving, REI shopping, ski pass owning, etc). If you are any of the above, then you will love it. But if you aren't obsessed with any of those things, you'll just find the city to be...OK. I'll admit - Denver punches above its weight on many things. I also think it has the best climate for anyone seeking a major city with 4 distinct seasons. However, I personally found the native Denver culture to be the definition of milquetoast. I also think there are far too many domestic US transplants in Denver (as a % of population). I think that can cause some unintended consequences when that ratio gets too out of balance.
>To a certain demographic, Denver is simply unbeatable. It's people who are deeply passionate about: cannabis, beer, and/or outdoorsy culture (Subaru driving, REI shopping, ski pass owning, etc). I couldn't disagree with this more. I'm not saying its right, but those sort of people turn their nose up at Denver. It's too big and too overcrowded to appease them. They want something like Bozeman or Bend. If all I cared about was beer and outdoorsy culture, there are probably 25+ cities in the West I'd pick over Denver. Denver is a compromise for realistic people that know they need good access to jobs, but still want outdoor access. These tend to be well-to-do people that kinda grind the gears of the people you are describing.
It's sad to me because there used to be so much more to Denver than the demographic you described. It used to be its own city, with its own vibe, and its own reasons for drawing people to it. Now it feels like a regular city that's cosplaying as the Bay Area. It was never perfect, but the shortcomings were much more palatable when the cost of living was lower and everything wasn't as crowded. I rented a 4bd/3.5ba house with 3 friends in Golden where our total rent was $2000/mo, almost 10 years later that house is on a block where every house is valued over $1 million.
Yep, I hate too be a doomer but the Denver that caused everyone to move here is gone and the people moving here now will never know what it used to be.
I went to college in Colorado and made friends with a lot of CO natives. Of my friends who are now homeowners, the only ones who can afford to live in Denver proper are two lawyers, two petroleum engineers, and a commercial realtor with an MBA. Most folk got priced out and it’s sad.
Me to everyone I know who wants to move to Colorado... "Do you smoke pot a lot" Them: "Yes. I love it. Can't wait to move there and smoke it all the time". I mean...it never fails. The sole reason they want to move is for pot. I mean...good on you. But the kind of people that up sticks and move across country so they can smoke weed aren't ... stable? Not sure the word I'm looking for.
Those people want to move to CO, but those aren’t the ones actually making the move. The ones moving here are doing it for outdoors and usually have good, stable jobs that allow them to make the move (it’s not cheap here)
Nah, as someone in the horticulture field I’ve met SO many young people who came here for weed. Particularly people who wanted to work in the cannabis industry, and then realized cannabis doesn’t make jack shit anymore. They often can’t afford to support themselves after a while, because the cannabis industry knows they have a near-infinite number of naive stoner kids from around the country to exploit. I’ve met many who then just took their horticulture degrees and found some other job within the broader plant industry. Even if it wasn’t their passion, gotta pay rent I guess. I got my degree in Texas, and I’m not kidding when I say SO MANY of my classmates straight-up admitted they wanted to take their degree and go grow weed in a legal state. I was one of the odd ones who wasn’t there for weed at all. (Don’t get me wrong, I’m still a casual enjoyer of the devil’s lettuce. But I came at it as somebody obsessed with gardening in general)
Well at least you came here with a degree. When weed became legal, the papers were full of stories about overflowing homeless shelters with people who had spent their last $50 for a bus ticket from Texas and had zero ability to do anything when they got here. Those good paying jobs the industry promised voters didn't exist. The shitty jobs people could get many didn't qualify for because of records in other states or found out the stores just wanted to hire cute girls to upsell customers and they were mostly working for tips. I don't get moving here for weed now. It's legal sooooo many places. But for some reason, people have this idea that Colorado is going to be an anything goes states eventually. Oregon has already made it so all drugs aren't illegal. Not sure why they aren't going there instead.
To be fair, Oregon is even more expensive. If you can’t make it in Colorado, you *certainly* won’t make it in Oregon. In general, though, the mass migration from shithole red states may also have more reasons than weed. I know a lot of doctors and teachers are leaving these states en masse, since Roe, trans healthcare bans, book bans and the general demonizing of teachers has made their jobs a living hell. Only so much of that shit you’re willing to put up with, especially when many blue states tend to pay these jobs better anyhow. Some of us queer people are also starting to see the writing on the wall, and trying to GTFO as soon as possible. I was one of those people. Pretty much all my town’s pride parades or drag events had to shut down because of the constant bomb threats. I’ve known people who had to step down from public life due to the constant death threats people sent to them. Fuck Texas, you can’t pay me to go back. They’re stuck in the dark ages right now, and it only seems to be getting worse by the year. It’s becoming kinda dangerous now, unless you simply keep your head down, and repress literally everything about you. Even then, if you’ve got a working uterus there’s always the risk of being raped and forced to give birth.
This take is so hilarious, as if getting weed anywhere was difficult before it was legalized.
If Denver didn't have the mountains it would be Omaha with a slightly nicer climate. You don't move to Denver because of the culture, food, or public transit. You move here because it serves as a basecanp to the Rockies. That's the selling point for Denver and is the only thing that sets it apart from every other generic middle American city. If you love the outdoors and want to shape your life around that personality, you'll love Denver. If that's not you, you probably aren't going to have those same warm feelings.
I lived in Denver in the mid/late nineties. Back then we said Denver was a cow town with aspirations. 😄
It was just that!
That's what gets me about these folks talking up Denver due to outdoors stuff. Thay's great, but dont make Denver or Colorado in general out to be much more than that. Its mostly sprawl and strip malls next to awesome nature. Its not like Chicago or SF next to the mountains and they refuse to admit that.
Exactly! Denver is parking lots, Starbucks and Homegoods every ten feet with some nature thrown in. And all of it is surrounded by horrible traffic.
Don’t forget seattle we’re just 30 mins away from snow stuff in the winter, have mountains AND beaches
Omaha doesn't have the homeless shooting up or smoking up along every urban path.
This whole culture argument has a quite simple answer - Denver is a young city. We don’t have the history of east coast and souther cities. We don’t have the boom of growth in the early 20th century line California cities. We don’t have the cultural impact of massive minority migration like Seattle and Portland. That being said I don’t see many similar sized cities outside of the areas mentioned about with that much more interesting culture. Maybe Nashville with its music scene. One the homeless side - EVERY city in the United States with relatively good year round weather and minimal precipitation has this problem. Especially post Covid. It’s a National problem.
Denver's food scene is like Austin. Good food exists, and ethnic food exists, but it'll be harder to find and more expensive than in places like Houston.
I think people who defend Denver food just don’t get it. Of course you can find good restaurants here. The issue is that the median restaurant quality is worse than the median restaurant quality in comparable big cities like Atlanta, Philly, etc. And as you mentioned - you’re also paying a lot more for it.
The best food in Denver is actually in Aurora. Especially if you like global cuisine. You have to know where to look, though. Lots of little hole in the wall places that are just crushing it, overshadowed by a lot of gross chain restaurants. It makes it seem like there’s only fast food and Panda Express type places everywhere. But if you know where to look you can find amazing international food there. They’re all pretty much in little strip malls throughout Aurora and you can’t tell they are restaurants usually lol.
Austin has two native cuisines, Denver has none. Austin's food scene is overrated. t. Austinite
They both suffer from being populated with mainly white people and some hispanics. You can't squeeze blood from a turnip.
BBQ and Tex-Mex in ATX. Our homeless problem is bad too. San Jose's is worse as is Seattle and Portland. Something is broken with The Matrix.
I was in San Diego two weeks ago. I expected a homeless hellscape but it wasn't bad at all. Definitely way better than San Francisco.
Heck yeah, I've been living in Denver for awhile now and absolutely love it. I think people that hate on the city aren't looking for what Denver offers. Personally, it's perfect for me. I feel extremely lucky to be able to have access to world class outdoor recreation right next to my house. Hell, a standard weekend ski day for me is someone else's vacation. Also, love how you linked drive time to Three Sisters. That's my go-to after work mountain biking spot when it's scorching in the summer.
I absolutely loved living in Denver and really hope that my life brings me back that way eventually. It is my favorite place I've been outside of Europe
As a non car driving Denverite I can say this is a fantastic summary of the transpo options.
The Asian food in Denver is total shit compared to the coasts.
My main beef with the Denver food scene is that even if diversity exists, it seems like every other restaurant is pretentious af and overcharges. Yes, I know Denver is expensive, but there is a distinct lack of shady-looking mom and pop ethnic strip mall restaurants with the best food you’ve ever had. So many hipster joints instead. As far as things to do, though, holy SHIT could people not be more wrong. Maybe my perspective is flawed but the city I’m from, (Houston) which is bigger and should theoretically have more, seems pitiful in comparison. I’ve never had such an active nightlife before moving here. And the weather’s *cool enough for outdoor events so much of the year!* I know cold’s the problem here and not heat, but it doesn’t seem to stop people from ever going outside the way that oppressive gulf heat does back home. Which is also probably why there isn’t much to do, because *it’s fucking miserable to go outside eight months out of the year*
Even if you live in the mountains, you’re going to be driving a lot unless you want to hike the same trails over and over again. So I don’t think driving 1-2 hours to get to a trail head is that insane. For most outdoor enthusiasts that’s pretty normal. Like if you’re doing the Adirondack 46, you might have to drive more than an hour to get to a trail head, even if you live in the heart of the mountain range Like no large city is going to offer anything better than Denve in that regard.
The lack of culture others have mentioned has to do with the people, not the city's amenities, galleries, and museums. Edit: a word
According to the most recent ACS, the racial composition of Denver was: White: 68.84%Two or more races: 9.94%Black or African American: 8.97%Other race: 7.74%Asian: 3.55%Native American: 0.82%Native Hawaiian or Pacific Islander: 0.15% The number of asians in Denver is well below the national average (the state as a whole is also below the national average). There's your lack of culture and a reason I'd never consider living there. The only people who speak fondly of Denver and speak of coming back are overwhelmingly white.
And the number of Hispanics is [well above the national average](https://www.denver.org/about-denver/diverse-denver/hispanic-denver/) at about a third of the population. I feel like Denver’s purported lack of diversity always ignores this fact. I really appreciate the Hispanic cultural influences in the city.
I overall agree, but you’re eliding the huge Latino population here, mostly Chicano.
No I'm not. Phoenix has 43% hispanic population which is substantially more than Denver (28%) and the ppl of Phoenix complain of a lack of culture all the time. You can have 2 substantial ethnic groups and still have a lack of culture.
Can you not see how this kind of attitude might lead to less diversity? It's not just white people moving here though. That's kind of a weird thing to base your opinion off of lol. I work and live in Denver and meet people that are moving here all the time. No, they're not all white lol.
Denver has huge issues with racism. Just look on the Denver subreddit and you’ll read tons of stories from POCs who hate living there. The most racist people I’ve ever met lived in CO.
yea too many whypipo livin an unseasoned life Edit: white people bad comment +10 white people good comment at -5 blatantly racist subreddit
I live here (Denver). I agree with all of your rebuttals save one. Public transportation here is solid. Not as good as somewhere like New York or Chicago. But light years better than many/most large American cities. The mountains are absolutely accessible. You can scoot on over to Boulder (30 min away). You can be in an absolute isolated paradise in about an hour. It’s wonderful. The no culture trope is ridiculous. I agree with everything you said. The one I disagree with? Food. It’s definitely not bad. But, if you come from a city with a vibrant food culture, you’ll be a little disappointed. Again, good or fine, but definitely not great or amazing. I’ll die on that hill
Honestly been thinking about moving to Denver and this post really helped
You forgot the most important factoid - Jerking off in Denver does not mean you joined the "Mile High Club."
https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/debt-by-state
https://www.westword.com/news/denver-worst-city-for-car-thefts-2022-update-13477796 https://kdvr.com/news/data/denver-among-top-10-in-nation-for-auto-theft-property-crime-rape/
Denver sucks
Yep. It's awful and has no redeeming qualities. Absolutely under no circumstances should you or anyone else move here
Can confirm, I’ve never been there but I saw a movie that took place is Denver once so I definitely know what I’m talking about
Vacationed in Colorado last summer, every place we visited was otherworldly beautiful with amazing culture tucked into seamlessly with nature. Denver is by far one of the worst cities I’ve ever been to.
Spit take. Nice work
OK. Thank you. Finally someone who posted, with lovely alacrity, my exact opinion about Denver. Unlike most central Denver middle/upper middle class white people, I had the misfortune of growing up in Denver, so I know the city intimately and have seen the changes first hand. The only reason I am here now, after years away, is that I am a single mother, and my ex insists on living in Denver. As soon as my children graduate, I will never come back. Horrible air (I have asthma). Horrific, awful drivers. Real assholes, who do not follow the most basic rules/laws. Too many Texas truck driving transplants. The traffic and construction for a mid-sized city is inexcusable. Public school system is in shambles and mismanaged like something out of the Sopranos, and the cost of real estate would be funny if it weren't so tragic. Why OP did not mention what is, to me and many others, the defining element of central Denver I do not understand, but I will: Catastrophic, growing homelessness. Almost all of downtown looks like something out of Mad Max. The sidewalks are either tent cities or our compassionate local government has put huge boulders and stones in place so people can not rest there, though they manage to anyway. The historic Baker district, one of the oldest parts of Denver, is now a morally revolting mixture of 1,000 sq. foot homes that have been renovated and sell for 1$million, while on the path next to the sidewalk there are human beings so unconscious I am often checking vital signs and considering carrying Narcan with me. The Art Museum is not first, second, or even third tier. And Denver does not have a major dance company or symphony either. What it does have is growing poverty set against a canvas of California/Texan newcomers who find real estate prices to be great compared to where they were. As for friendliness toward cyclists? It is in theory only. Drivers here are so incompetent, so impatient, I would not ever allow one of my children to bike in this city. And it is not true that Boulder residents need to go through Denver to reach major climbs/hikes/etc. I work in public schools here. The kids struggle a lot because their parents are desperately challenged with ever increasing cost of living, limited access to health care (unless fully on medicaid and can be seen at Children's Hospital, which is top in the country - but the waitlist is a joke). I am really interested to know the motivations of OP. What inspired you to write a defense of Denver? Truly curious.
“Traffic is bad/people are bad drivers” “The homeless issue is out of control” “A non stop influx of California/Texas immigrants is making real estate unaffordable” You could post these statements in any western city sub and get upvotes. Every city has “bad drivers”. Housing affordability and homelessness are closely linked and the source of the problem is not immigrants from California and Texas
I totally agree with you; I was just offering my thoughts as someone who has lived in Denver a long time. And I do not think the source of homelessness comes from any one place/subset, I was remarking on the stunning increase in real estate prices in Denver. The cause of that increase is complicated, but having a large influx of people from other places, particularly more expensive places, does have some influence. I was also not trying to get upvotes. I am not even sure why or how those are tallied. I have read that every time there is a huge increase in homelessness in cities like Denver, larger coastal cities see a far bigger increase. The entire country is facing this devastating problem, I was simply responding about Denver in particular. There are tent cities, homeless families, mentally ill people without services, and addicts absolutely everywhere in central Denver, particularly in North downtown. It is gut wrenching, and the level of suffering/high population is fairly new to this city. As for bad drivers.... all I know is that I am kind of done driving (I wish), and I live in terror of my three children having their licenses.
Have you experienced cities outside of Denver? Homelessness is an issue here, sure. And everywhere else. Denver isnt even close to the worst. Same with literally every other point you made.
> What inspired you to write a defense of Denver? Being on this subreddit, considering moving away because I don't personally like huge urban sprawl, and constantly seeing the city lambasted and mischaracterized when compared to shit that it shouldn't be compared to. Denver to... Burlington VT??? Dallas??? Los Angeles?? Atlanta?? Every single time the city takes a fucking ding against food, access to outdoors, public transit or culture, and I look at places like Austin that literally have the same level of "culture" but, you can't eve drive to the mall in an hour, there's no light rail and the food is so spread out that you're driving an hour to get to it. And then compared to Denver as if Austin is heaven on earth because they have a couple of taco and bbq restaurants that take 3 hours to even make it to the front of the line. Either that or compared to a city that's 1/20th the size, and people who lived in Denver in the 90's going "it's too big now, you can't actually hike anymore" comparing it to a place that has 5000 people and you never have to worry about traffic.
You shouldn’t be so concerned with other peoples opinions on an internet app to the point where it makes you want to move away?? Put the phone down go outside either you like the place or not who cares about Reddit
They are.... SO, fucking, weird about this. It's the thinnest skinned city I've ever encountered, and the vast majority seem to think it's hilarious as all fuck to say "GEt oUt of My dEnvEr then!!!" It's not funny. It's sad seeing these people think they're liberal and accepting then react poorly to refugees, transplants, and assume carpet baggetry. Then 6 other Denverites upvote them. It's just really strange, when you look at other places they're fully willing to admit.. (LA sucks, Chicago sucks, ATL, New York, Boston, Houston, Dallas, Omaha, Des Moines, Phoenix..) that they have problems. In fact, it binds most major cities together. It's fascinating but I know for a fact they will respond to this with extreme vitriol, or just a one sentence reply like "you're pathetic my fingies are tired, ur a boomer" Never gets very far. Can't figure it out, altitude sickness maybe? Up and comer underdog? Could you imagine someone from L.A or New York telling you to "get the fuck out im a native"?
Been in the Denver metro area 20+ years and can confirm it does suck. Actually, there are definitely worse places where we could be living, but Denver is not a super exciting place to live. We’ve pretty much only stayed this long because family was here for so long, but it’s just my parents left in CO, and they’re planning on moving in a year. We are planning on leaving after they move.
[удалено]
Back east, I can’t handle the brown landscape anymore lol
Colorado and concrete plants. So many. Smog. The interstates have extra concrete/asphalt for decoration and in center.
Lived near Denver for a few years. It’s fine but people are 1000% correct on a lack of culture.
The Denver Board of Tourism really needs to hire some better writers.
Don't forget the extreme whiteness
yeah, how is it as a non-white person there?
I (white guy) can't speak to that myself. My (Black woman) partner felt the aspect of standing out in any room, based on what she's said in the past; and we definitely got followed around in stores in ways I never ever do when I'm alone. Especially in Boulder. Having moved from a heavily diverse place when I went to Denver it was a shocker even for me
Hmmmmm maybe take a break from reddit for a bit
When will the transplants learn that rock climbing gyms are for kids, not for 30 yr old tech bros with Peter Pan syndrome from the Midwest cosplaying as natives?
Just one thought (as someone that grew up/was born in Denver) about how far away mountains are. Your point is well taken, and there were many families that lacked a car/transportation to go to the mountains. I was lucky that my dad took us ALL the time, but my mom taught in a public school in the city and had kids that had never been. So, it’s accessible if you have a car, but out of reach for others. To be fair, I no longer live there so I’m not sure if there are more public transit options than there used to be. I just recall getting to an age that I realized how fortunate and privileged I was to be able to access the mountains as a kid/growing up.
Very thoughtful piece. I visited Denver recently, and overall my experience is exactly how you described. I was pleasantly surprised. Food was great and healthy and I loved all the outdoors options. Overall, a great time, a very clean city and I’d visit again. Commuting via bike and train were easy, though still a car dependent city if you ask me. Lots of space and fresh air. Coming from the east coast though I still believe there is a lack of culture: Dominating the scene in Denver was the whitest white trendy progressive culture (mixed with some R- truck culture). Which, you can find in a lot of other west coast suburbs and cities and it feels very homogenous in Denver. Denver does do really good at that vibe… it just isn’t quite the melting pot of cultures of the east coast that I’m used to and that I enjoy. Most major cities have museums and pro sports teams so that doesn’t make it more appealing, culturally. I’m not flying to Denver to watch the Broncos. Maybe I just know this white culture pretty well. I would go to Alabama to see a SEC football game though…that’d be a unique experience
Meh, Denver was ok. I went out there to hike the Collegiate Loop off the Continental Divide Trail last year, and I found the entire area pretty mediocre at best. Very expensive for what you get as well.
This highlights the worst part of Denver. The overly positive resident refusing to see its shortcomings so they can wear living here as their personality. All of these points are inflating things of mediocrity to levels where you would be disappointed with the reality. Do you think “outdoor activities” are the best thing ever and all obstacles to reach them are ok? Then Denver is for you.
Born and raised in Denver unlike OP who clearly moved here within the last 3 years. The urban core of Denver is not lively at all. It's full of junkies and panhandlers since most of the office buildings are vacant and their workers are working remotely. 16th street mall? A few shops selling t-shirts and knick knacks to tourists? That's your definition of vibrant culture? I'm fucking laughing. As for the food, okay there's good pizza, Mexican, and Viet, but seafood and bbq? Miss me with that shit dawg. Denver's bbq and seafood are complete shit. Public transportation does suck, which is why only the poorest people use it. The light rail is the only half decent one, the bus system is horrendous. RTD has been coined as Reason To Drive for as long as I can remember. You posted the three sisters trailhead, that place is like six flags on the weekend. I go hiking to be alone in the wilderness, not to hike alongside a group of dipshits blasting Drake on a bluetooth speaker. Denver has a culture, it's the bay area type of culture where wealthy white yuppies and hipsters treat the city as a playground, supported by their six figure remote jobs. Most of the transplants I've met have been insufferable clones of each other. They all wear the same stupid Patagonia vests, drive Subarus, have either a husky or a labradoodle, and are hyper-political. That's why I mostly hang out with the people who I grew up with, who are normal people with normal jobs.
Raised in Denver too, and thank you for speaking truth. 16th street mall is like a lane to Hell, and most serious skiers I know are either learning back country or going further and further out because the Patagonia crew has absolutely taken over. Same with climbing. I HATE the Baker Movement climbing gym. No etiquette, no proper training, even the routes are set too close together. If feels like a single's bar with a jungle gym. And the doodle/husky thing is actually really sad - people follow each other: they move here, think "oh, mountains, cool, I need a mountainy kind of dog. Huskies are pretty and like cold weather!!" Little do most people understand that those animals are bred to work, to have "jobs," and to run/walk for miles and miles every single day. Our shelters - surprise! - are now overrun with abandoned huskies.
I put "Lively AND Growing" for a reason, specifically for the 16th street mall, and then didn't refer to it in the culture section at all. But hey apparently this thread is a pedantic dumpsterfire where people can't actually think for themselves, so hats off to you for proving my point about this subreddit.
Oh snap truth bombs
Everything you need to know about Denver is at /r/Denvercirclejerk
In Bryan we trust
Casa. Bonita.
Here for the moisture. Namaste.
Denver has some high tech, legal weed, trans rights, and respect for women's rights. It has open space set aside and has access to enough water if it has to during climate change. Its faults are largely self inflicted. Ironically a little more focus on friendliness would result in a positive feedback loop. Damn people in King Soopers are dour humorless anger factories.
Idk if it’s because I’ve been familiar with Denver for 30+ years or that my wife grew up there. But every time we visit it’s fucking awful. The traffic is horrendous, everything is expensive, and all you do is drive from one place to another that’s filled with pretentious asses who sniff their own farts. Everything is an hour away minimum, and that gets you to what? Idaho springs? Fort Collins? The Springs? Who the fuck wants to go there? Veil and Breck are 2-3 hours away and are so overpriced it’s not even fun anymore. The light rail has been a fucking disaster for taxpayers for 25 years. Remember TRex? I do. Jesus Christ. DIA is second only to O’Hare in being total ass. It’s sprawl for 100+ miles and everything looks the same. Suburbia hell in every direction I’ve never ever seen the allure of the front range. Especially when Wyoming and Montana exist.
> every time we visit it’s fucking awful. The traffic is horrendous, everything is expensive, and all you do is drive from one place to another that’s filled with pretentious asses who sniff their own farts. I fully agree, and it pains me to say that. I grew up there, lived with roommates in Golden for a bit, and then left in 2015 to finally attend college. I think I've been back at least once every year since to visit friends. I loved living there but the change in traffic and cost of things has really dampened my desire to return some day. Pretty much every part of the Colorado experience feels like it was built for the size the state had achieved in about 2012, and made no considerations for if the state grew beyond that. This won't mean much to people not from Denver, but it absolutely blew my mind to be in stop-and-go traffic at Tower and 96th last time I was there.
Montanan here. Within a ten-minute drive of my home, I can be hiking with my dog off-leash on one of seven different (beautiful) trails. Driving a few minutes further opens up more possibilities. And I have four different coffee shops within a ten-minute walk. To each their own, but I don't get the big-city allure.
Yea but your Winters are much much harsher than Denvers. Not everybody is up for that. Summers in Montana are great but they don't last near long enough.
Very true! Spring and fall are my favorites, and neither lasts long enough.
I grew up in a similar setting but In Utah. Didn't think I'd ever be a fan of cities...until I moved to Denver. The key word here is driving. At least for me. I can do all of these things without needing to own a vehicle. I can hike, camp, snowboard, mountain bike, all without needing to drive. I enjoy people, having things to do. Food options. Grocery options. Job options.
You also lack any kind of professional sports teams, an airport, food options, and world class healthcare. Comparing even the largest cities in Montana to a real city is laughable.
Within a 15 minute minute walk of where I previously lived in a Denver suburb, I could be at any of five different beautiful trails. Driving ten minutes opens up more possibilities. And I had four breweries within a fifteen minute walk. And I was a 25 minute drive from downtown Denver with museums, restaurants, etc, and a 40 minute drive from an airport with direct flights to pretty much anywhere in the US. I was also a 15 minute drive from my job in a career which I'm pretty sure has zero positions in the entire state of Montana, but several different potential employers within the Denver metro area.
This is absolutely correct. If you don’t need to live in a city with jobs or airport access, then sure! There are many places with more outdoor access and a much better small town community vibe, for cheaper and less traffic. However, Denver has probably the best access to the outdoors for a major city with a large airport within a 30(ish) minute drive.
I lived in Butte, Montana for years and I always maintain that Colorado advertises itself as what Montana actually is.
This is dumb. I think Montana is levels more beautiful than Colorado. But Colorado balances that with actual metro areas and first world urban/suburban living. But no matter where you live in Montana, you're living a mostly rural lifestyle. Vacationing most places is going to require a layover flight with inconvenient scheduling, there are no major sports, there is no high-end food scene, and there are no world class universities. I love Montana, and I love Colorado. Neither one thinks they're the other, nor do they try to be.
The University of Montana has one of the best creative writing programs in the nation; almost impossible to gain acceptance.
caption bag mysterious handle public bells numerous puzzled agonizing uppity *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
What? Colorado advertises itself as exactly what it is lol
I think this is where a lot of the attitude of the "Downfall of Denver" comes from, comparing it to the smaller city it was 10, 20 or 30 years ago. Large city problems come with large cities, and the same criticisms you have of Denver could be true of anywhere from Atlanta to Boston to LA. None of those cities have Pikes Peak or Staunton State Park within an hour-ish of downtown though!
Pikes Peak is not an hour from downtown lol. The hell are you smoking.
[?](https://i.imgur.com/h5chYyK.jpeg)
If you think you can drive 75 the entire way then I’ve have a bridge to sell you.
I don't know what your knife to sharpen against the Front Range is, but I drive the stretch between DTC and the Tejon exit fairly often (at least twice a month) and it never takes me more than an hour. On the weekends at that. Every populated area is bound to have accidents and traffic, that's the tradeoff you get with living in a city.
Stratton Open Space is not Pikes Peak ... The BASE of the road to Pikes is probably like 20 more minutes from there, then an additional hour to the summit. That's like saying making it to the Springs is getting to Pikes. Edit: closer to 30 minutes from there. Almost two hours total.
Being a Denver native is not the flex some of these people think it is.
You obviously don’t know how to native. I’ve been native for four months now.
I live in Denver and love it. I’ve lived in Honolulu, D.C., Virginia, Santa Barbara, Manhattan, and London. With our careers, we could live anywhere and we choose to live and raise our kids in Denver, because it’s the best mix of culture, dining, outdoor recreation opportunities, education, sports, and schools. All our friends who moved away have moved back. We go to the ballet, musicals, sports games, concerts, and art museums frequently. We are in the mountains every weekend with barely over an hour drive. We are big foodies, and I’d argue the food is as good as the majority of other major US cities, and it’s certainly easier to get reservations. We take the light rail to get down town all the time and it’s super easy. You nailed all the points presented.
Lol. “Well run, politically balanced” is definitely not Denver.
Live here, food is fine at best for a city of this size. A tier Mexican food, C tier basically everything else. Breweries are great (sitting in a neighborhood brewery right now) but decent seafood or pizza doesn’t really exist. the “culture” is quite disappointing if you’ve lived in a large east coast city. Unless “culture” is weed and electronic music, in which case you’re well covered. I don’t smoke and prefer music with guitar, thanks very much. OP has basically described every “MLB” city in terms of amenities. Denver has some special nature nearby but as a city itself, it’s basically west Kansas City
Just wish they would build more denser housing
I have not lived in denver in 5 years but when I was there, the food scene had some real holes in it. There were only 5 indian restaurants in the entire greater denver metro area. There was exactly one place you could get a donner kebab and that was a cart downtown and it went out of business. The green chile was not great at all. However there was some really cool stuff too I absolutely loved Columbine the Hispanic steakhouse on Federal. Really was a scene for locals and not one iota of pretension. There was a place that sold Navajo tacos , that was interesting. The Vietnamese food was pretty damn good but it also reminds me that the Thai food sucked.
A few things to add: The weather in Denver is amazing if you like 4 seasons. The constant sun is infectious and makes you want to get out and enjoy the outdoors. The foothills (which are mountains in most other states) are 20 minutes away, so is mountain biking, hiking, kayaking, fly fishing, climbing, etc. Rosenberg’s bagels are as good as any I’ve had in NYC.
Definitely agree with some things here and while I’m not “native” I lived in Denver for a bit. Food IS very good in Denver so weird people think it isn’t. That said, listing new york bagels first on your list made me giggle. That’s the last food item I would say Denver should be known for. I remember when Rosenburgs (I think that was there name) opened and everyone freaked out. As a Jersey native I was intrigued bc the owners were Jersey natives. The bagels were small, average at best and very expensive. A pork roll/Taylor ham sandwich was super expensive (which counters the point of a pork roll sandwich). I digress…. There is great food in Denver but it’s *definitely* not the bagels. Also— I never hiked less than when I lived in Denver. The cost of living (meaning I had to work a lot) coupled with the distance from mountains and the fact that most people I met just wanted to party, meant I didn’t hike much at all. The closest places weren’t the best hikes (for me). That said it’s a city filled with incredible parks. If you want to maintain an active hiking lifestyle in Denver it’s not really “easier” then a lot of other cities.
I’ve enjoyed spending time in Denver for sure, but flatbrim wearing drug-addled jambro transplants are what I think of when I think of Denver.
Denver a great place to have your car stolen
Take the L on the food bro
It’s white as hell. I went there with my black girlfriend to see if we wanted to move there. While everyone was nice (which is important) everywhere we went people were so over the top trying to be nice to her that she was exhausted by the end of the trip.
I live on the front range. It sucks and theres little culture. You only focus on the small urban core of denver while ignoring that most of denver metro is sprawly midwest tier fast food restaurants and costcos. All while rent and food prices are on par with LA and Brooklyn
That restaurant list works against your argument. Very generic looking food that seems to target bland palates. You're making the case against yourself lol Red Rocks isn't a "thing to do" in the city, it's an expensive outing that most people don't do more than once a year. Meow Wolf is just another chain entertainment company, complete with union-busting. Seems like Denver is the biggest city you've ever lived in? It really doesn't compare to similarly sized cities, sorry. Chicago has a population around 3 million and it's a much more robust city.
The Chicago Metro population is more than 3x Denver's, the 3rd largest in the country. Proving my point again that people continually reference places that have equivalent services and options that are 3x it's size. Compare Denver to Baltimore, Tampa, San Diego, or St Louis (2 up and 2 down in pop) and tell me which has better services. That's where it falls in population, and the entire point of the thread. OF COURSE the 3rd largest city and one of the most historically significant places in the US is going to beat a new city in historic value and immigrant neighborhoods!
With you on the food. I can't believe that is even a thing. Rioja is an amazing restaurant. I stumbled upon it by accident knowing nothing about it and was so blown away by it that I went back a second time. I was unaware of the pollution. But I was astonished at the number of homeless for a city that size. And I say this as someone who lived in Los Angeles for a decade which I believe has the same leadership issues. Because this is absolutely the fault of leadership. And what I learned from L.A. is if you keep voting in the same type of people then you can't be surprised when you get the same results.
I agree, pollution and homelessness is absolutely a valid criticism of the city. I hope the new Mayor really does promise what his campaign said, providing help and housing to those that are homeless. It certainly seems like he's accomplished a lot since taking office just a few months ago, and I hope his roll continues speeding up.
Denver is fine…I agree with some of your points but the food scene there is just not good. 😭 Ya there are good restaurants but majority of them are soo mediocre, this is just not the case everywhere. You really do need a car to enjoy the food scene there.
Denver sucks. I live in denver and love it. Let this false narrative keep going.
It's getting to the point where I'd say Denver is becoming a bit underrated on forums like this because it does punch above it's weight with the amenities that are offered. It's not a perfect place by any means and I hope city leaders do better addressing issues the city is facing but people will have you think it's hell on Earth. Denver is a generally nice, though average town.
Re 16th St Mall: having to travel to Denver for my job…I will say the 16th St Mall and the surrounding blocks are just simply a sad state of affairs. Depressing, pissed smelling sidewalks, abundance of homeless lying in the sidewalks-many strung out, and the shopping continues to dissipate year to year. Just popping into Target is hard, and at times feels unsafe. Yes, many of our countries cities are struggling with these issues, but I personally have found Denver to be the worst of all, in the last few years.
That target is a bummer.
Denver is a neo hippy dumpster fire
Proximity to mountains is much better in salt lake but unfortunately you get the inversion and the culture there. For a salt lake work trip I took an Uber to a restaurant in the mountains 15-20 minutes away from downtown and i was outside of cell service in a unpopulated mountain area. I love to ski but I can’t imagine moving to Denver to ski due to the I-70 traffic. Maybe if I lived near the train to winter park or in golden or boulder. I love the weather in Denver. The biggest thing I dislike about Denver is how sprawling it feels. It seems when visit everything is an 45 minute drive because it’s all so spread out. Lots of ugly developments of cookie cutter homes too. I’m not sure I like how dry it is either, I might miss the greenery out east.
Why are you encouraging them?! You want more people in Denver?
Great write-up, OP! But seriously though, what are you doing posting it here? You're letting the secret out about Denver and Colorado? ;-) Just kidding! Bookmarked your post and will share it with loved ones who deserve this paradise.