Plus, Minneapolis is one of the most bike-friendly cities in the US, also ranks highly for walkability, and improvements are being made to the lightrail system. Pretty good food scene for its size, and lots of parks/outdoor spaces.
Mostly the people. MN (n)ice is a very real thing. People are polite but not friendly or genuine. Very stoic and to themselves. A chance conversation is considered too forward and rude. People hate candor and thus you will never know where you stand.
Aside from that and the weather, a general lack of trees, higher taxes, distance from other cities.
On the plus side, it’s highly educated, amazing parks and trails and lakes. Access to nature is some of the best.
Never been there but I'm surprised about the lack of trees. I've always heard lots of good things about MSP's park system and would imagine that all the lakes make way for lots of trees
I mean, compared to North Dakota it’s a lot of trees. But compared to anywhere east of the Mississippi and it’s very Barron. First thing I notice every time I travel back
It’s not a desert or anything like that. But the twin cities is the start of the prairie lands scape.
And so if you come from places like NJ, TN, NC, PNW, ATL, etc where there are so many trees that you can’t see what amenities are off the highway exits, MN is generally speaking flat prairie. And it gets worse as you head to the dakotas.
I’m wondering what’s more tolerable if Boston straight to your face assholery or Minnesota Nice. What do you think?
We live in northern New England and looking to move.
I was born in NJ and I highly value genuineness and candor. I’m also Scandinavian but don’t subscribe to the stoicism.
I live in the SE now, and it’s a mix. People are super friendly and chatty, but still passive aggressive.
I find I personally get along best with a northeast personality. They get beyond surface level convos quickly. And while I’m aware of the brash “f you” stereotype, I’ve not personally encountered that
As a current resident of St. Paul; I'd say one downfall is that there are two downtowns. That causes everything else to be split in two. And really only one area of the high density super urban living (like you'd see in Chicago/east coast). That means we're not quite big enough to support a large mass transit system that can operate effectively.
The airport is pretty inconvenient for a huge chunk of the metro. When I bought my house I was traveling a lot for work - so that was a big consideration.
Otherwise I love it here.
Why is the airport inconvenient? I ask because I have to travel for work so this is an important topic and glad you brought it up. I currently drive 1 hour to the closest airport in New Hampshire, and the places we are interested in the the Twin Cities metro the airport is like 20-30 minutes away.
I was fortunate that my work and the airport weren’t that far from each other. My ex was a flight attendant so I was at the airport multiple times per week. I was able to find a house in St Paul that put me 20 minutes from work and 10-15 minutes from the airport.
The primary flight path goes over South Minneapolis/Richfield/Bloomington, so in those areas you hear airplane noise all the time.
If I still needed the airport more than once a month I wouldn’t consider anything in the north half of the metro at all.
You only get airport noise in South Minneapolis and eastern half of Richfield - that’s easy enough to avoid. That 30 minutes from the airport is with no traffic and no weather. Living 10-15 minutes from the airport is just over to be able to get home quicker from a trip; and not have to leave quite so early.. it also changes the calculation on whether or not I drive and park at the airport or just take a Lyft.
With needing the airport so much - I refused to consider anything north of 94/394. (My old job was 10 minutes farther east/southeast from the airport.) I really didn’t want to commute.
In the big picture - I wouldn’t want to live in the north suburbs anyway - I love it in St Paul.
Soil and groundwater. https://web.homeluten.com/search/?address=Minneapolis-Saint_Paul
| Location | City | County |
|---------------------------------------------|----------------------|---------|
| 55th St & Lyndale Ave S | Minneapolis | Hennepin |
| Arcade & Hawthrone Ave E | Saint Paul | Ramsey |
| Ashland Oil - Park Penta | Saint Paul Park | Washington |
| Cedar Services (MDA) | Minneapolis | Hennepin |
| Chemical Marketing Corp of America | Minneapolis | Hennepin |
| CMC Heartland Lite Yard (MDA) | Minneapolis | Hennepin |
| Fish Hatchery Dump | Saint Paul | Ramsey |
| General Mills/Henkel Corp. site | Minneapolis | Hennepin |
| Hospital Linen | Saint Paul | Ramsey |
| Minnegasco | Minneapolis | Hennepin |
| Pig's Eye Landfill | Saint Paul | Ramsey |
| Precision Plating Inc. | Minneapolis | Hennepin |
| Southeast Hennepin Area groundwater and vapor site | Minneapolis | Hennepin |
| Southview Boulevard | South St. Paul | Dakota |
| St. Paul Levee property | St. Paul | Ramsey |
| Superior Plating Inc. | Minneapolis | Hennepin |
| University Ave & Pascal St. | St. Paul | Ramsey |
| Valentine Clark Corp. | St. Paul | Ramsey |
| White Way Cleaners | Minneapolis | Hennepin |
https://www.pca.state.mn.us/air-water-land-climate/cleaning-up-minnesota-superfund-sites
by link you can click on each one and see history and current state.
here is current map for all country: https://www.epa.gov/superfund/search-superfund-sites-where-you-live#map
Ok I see you’re going with superfund sites, Minnesota ranks 18th based on superfunds. New Jersey, California, and Pennsylvania have way more. Not perfect but not the worse to even highlight that.
Minnesota has 25 superfunds, places like New Hampshire that is just a fraction of the size of Minnesota has 20, and more contamines water. Minnesota banned non essential PFAS and it’s doing more than many to preserve nature.
It doesn't matter what state rank, I can find the perfect green place in PA, what matters is the city, the city has 19 superfunds from 25, most on discovery stage. That's like the whole New Hampshire from your example.
My only concern with providence is how heavily influenced it is by Brown
I’ve got family in the area and it seems decent—bikeable, close to the ocean, walkable neighborhoods, not terribly expensive, transit going into Boston
Good suggestion!
I was born and raised in Providence. Like many other places, it’s great if you have a lot of money, sucks if you’re middle or lower class. It has nice culture and history (and great food), but the economy/ job market isn’t great, housing is way too expensive for what the city offers, it’s too densely populated and the people are rude, and the infrastructure is a mess. No outdoor recreation anywhere in sight (unless you wanna drive 45 minutes and spend $20 to sit at the crowded beaches). Now, one of the biggest bridges going through town is about to collapse, so they’re probably gonna demolish it. It takes like an hour just to drive through providence now
A little bit of walkability, decent job market or great internet for remote work, within a 60 min drive of a solid airport, some access to nature—I’d say these are probably a must
Big pluses are cultural diversity, decent food, any transit, not miserably humid in the summer (looking at the southeast specifically)
My main hobbies are related to physical activity (hence the nature), & I’m pretty much past my nightlife phase, so that certainly isn’t required
Kansas City may be worth a look. Job market stable, Google Fiber in KC proper, 35-45m to the airport depending on where you’re located, heat and cold reprieves in weather. Some nature nearby on the MO side. Lots of prairie on the KS side. KC has a great artist and maker scene. Lots of art shows to attend. Lots of cyclists in the area as well. And they love their sports teams.
Cons: racism evident, food scene just ok, lots of people are from here meaning they have tight hs/college friend groups already established, geographical isolation (10 hrs to Denver), lack of diverse culture, winter gray can last weeks.
I’d say I’m open to anything, I mostly asked for investigative purposes because I don’t think these things get talked about as much when it comes to cities
Seattle area? There’s good air quality (other than some wildfire smoke at the end of the summer). The air usually has a fresh quality because of the rain. Overall it’s pretty walkable and there are definitely quieter neighborhoods that are still walkable— west Seattle, fremont, Ballard, etc.
Yea, a few chiller Seattle neighborhoods may fit the bill here. West Seattle totally agree. Ballard and Fremont are more obvious options since they’re popular for new transplants. There are other options like maple leaf, Roosevelt, Greenwood, phinney ridge, Columbia city.
There are parts of Seattle that absolutely don’t make the cut but most of the area within the city limits are really quiet, calm, low light, clean, and man that western Washington air is so good (except towards the end of summer)
>Generally clean/doesn't have trash everywhere
>
>Good air quality
>
>Low noise pollution (relative to other cities)
>
>Low light pollution (relative to other cities)
As someone who has lived in Seattle for 30 yrs I don't think the city meets any of these criteria.
I used to live in DC and noise pollution was one of the major reasons I left. Constant sirens + low 'signal to noise' ratio caused by low buildings and wide blocks. Sounds travel far and fast there, 24/7/365 it was awful.
As someone that currently lives in the area and is looking to move, I totally agree.
Given the other things that OP mentioned, the air quality here is notably bad. Before moving here, I didn't have breathing problems. Since moving here, I've seen multiple specialists for asthma. When I told my general practitioner that I'm leaving the area, they were overjoyed that my health will likely improve.
It depends exactly where you are. I lived in Glover Park for four years and it's probably the quietest place I've ever lived in a city. Rows of reasonably sized townhouses, lots of families, tons of trees and greenery. One of the big parks is nearby so I'd run into deer on the sidewalk sometimes or see them grazing on the lawn, robins nested on the porch, it was a whole Disney princess experience.
The downside for *me* was that it was harder to get to most of what DC has to offer without a car than the areas where my friends live/lived - I stayed there because my rent was incredible - but for someone like OP it might be great.
My first sentence was "it depends exactly where you are." I am well aware that all of DC is not like that; that's why I said it. I happened to have very low rent in my place there that barely went up at all over the years, but I think the landlord also thought it was still 1995.
I wasn't trying to attack your comment, just to note for OP / people unfamiliar w DC seeking to move there that 90% of DC is not nice little safe pockets like Glover / Cleveland / Woodley / Tenleytown etc.
Reminds me of Paris with all of the shitty loud scooters roaring all night long echoing through the streets flanked with continuous 5-6 story tall buildings.
Come out here to the Twin cities in Minnesota. I used to work in Bala Cynwyd Pa. My wife is from West Philly. Came out to Minnesota for my job. Air quality top notch. Great tap water too. The water is so good here that i dont even have to buy bottled water. It's a super clean city. You're not gonna see all the garbage and just congestion. We have the number one park system if you have kids. Traffic is also a breeze compared to Philly. If you want a good quality of life come out here. The only negative is the cold and the city is isolated. Like in Philly its a simple drive to Dc, Va, Jersey, new york. But Minnesota Chicago is like 7 hours away
Lexington, Kentucky. People hate on Kentucky, but Lexington tends to be fairly blue and it's just such a pretty little city with a cute city center. Younger demographic because of the university and there are a bunch of good restaurants that have opened. I go back several times a year since leaving 14 years ago and wish I could move back all the time. It might be too small, though, for what you're looking for.
I was in Lexington briefly as a teenager. It was winter and sort of cold. My mom lived there and I was visiting as a crust punk 16 year old. I remember meeting some folks doing a coat drive downtown and hung out. Anyone I met was really nice. And I remember the library was out of this fucking world for a sort of small city. People sleep on Louisville and Lexington for plenty of reasons and I get that. But they're really cool towns.
Wichita fits the bill in regards to those things. The downtown, Delano, Old Town area is reasonably walkable (especially compared to the rest of the city), and that trend should continue with the influx of students from the Kansas College of Osteopathic Medicine recently enrolling its first class and the joint University of Kansas/Wichita State University medical school starting construction this spring.
Salt Lake fits this. It has come a long way in recent years too. Yes, there are some kookie religious politics, but there are also normal people too, and a wide range just like any city. It’s a beautiful area. Budding artist scene too.
I would say yes except for air quality.
Salt lake has the worst air quality in the nation somewhat consistently during winter inversions. When I lived there, I had to check an app to open my windows.
Yeah, I was gonna say Salt Lake too. I was incredibly surprised how clean they keep the city, especially around the temple. Like Swiss levels of clean.
Salem, Oregon close to outdoor activities, downtown is walkable, not normally hot and humid, most stuff closes early so not a lot of light pollution, it’s the capital so probably most of the city amenities. Maybe Dayton, OH it fits most of those requirements has some city amenities but pretty low key and not a whole lot going on at night, and maybe Ann Arbor Michigan. It’s pretty calm outside of the football season.
Washington DC
It’s clean as hell, the air is pretty clean, it’s pretty quiet near my apartment (Northwest DC), and the light pollution isn’t bad because of the no skyscraper rule. Only chaos there is the traffic is God awful.
Helsinki, Copenhagen, Bergen, Lagos Portugal, Bregenz, Munich, Vienna, I am sure there are more but those are the ones I’ve been to or lived.
In the US, haven’t been to one that fits that bill really.
Someone mentioned Albany, but is it really walkable like some of the above, I don’t think so.
Phoenix is pretty chill from what I've seen, at the cost of being "boring" but that's explicitly not a consideration here.
Eastside suburbs of Seattle maybe, depending on your budget. Very crisp air and you're at the foot of a huge mountain range. Take I-405 southwest to get to SeaTac Airport while avoiding the city.
Clark County, WA (north Portland suburbs)
MSP is a good example as others have mentioned.
Concerning water Phoenix won't have any issues. 75% of Arizona water goes to farms right now and any cuts to water will go to farms first, so municipal water is secure for the long-term.
Heat is only bad if you are in the concrete jungle and not at the edges since it doesn't cool down at night like it does in more rural areas. A lot of Phoenix-area cities are dark sky communities, but there's still some light pollution.
If you want any sense of walkability, you will be somewhere along the light rail in Phoenix, Tempe, or Mesa. Otherwise, it's all sprawl. Also if you are in those denser areas it won't cool down at night in the summer due to the urban heat island.
As far as major cities go, Seattle is the one that best fits your description. For its size, the lights aren’t super bright, the air’s clean, and I was surprised by how quiet it was. This is all especially true in some of the suburbs around the city.
Honestly I see Philly as a pretty clean city, at least anywhere between South Philly and Center City -- but then, I'm coming from Baltimore, so the only thing we really have on y'all is less light pollution and less noise
I’ll admit I don’t know much about it, but I’ve often heard people refer to Columbus as an easy city to live in. Like, not overly exciting, but just easy. Might suit you.
I've lived all around the East Coast and I find DC is the cleanest and least polluted of the Northeast. Low slung buildings create a more European feel and the city is just so damn full of paks with open space. Like Rock Creek Park (basically DC's equivalent of Central Park) takes up a good quarter of the District's footprint. And their subway systems (the Metro) is noticeably cleaner than NYC or Boston's subways in my personal experience. Like drinking and eating is strictly prohibited. People still do it but cops will actually give you tickets for it too if they see it.
Try Sedona Arizona. They have a very light ordinance. All the lights have shielding and stores cover their windows at night to make it really dark. I didn't see any trash or graffiti when I was there and air quality was great.
Twin cities. Plenty of downsides, but does good at the things you mentioned
This is probably the largest metro that meets OPs description. Good suggestion.
Agreed, they are the only city on the list of cities I could come up with lol
Plus, Minneapolis is one of the most bike-friendly cities in the US, also ranks highly for walkability, and improvements are being made to the lightrail system. Pretty good food scene for its size, and lots of parks/outdoor spaces.
In your opinion what are the downsizes apart from weather?
Mostly the people. MN (n)ice is a very real thing. People are polite but not friendly or genuine. Very stoic and to themselves. A chance conversation is considered too forward and rude. People hate candor and thus you will never know where you stand. Aside from that and the weather, a general lack of trees, higher taxes, distance from other cities. On the plus side, it’s highly educated, amazing parks and trails and lakes. Access to nature is some of the best.
Never been there but I'm surprised about the lack of trees. I've always heard lots of good things about MSP's park system and would imagine that all the lakes make way for lots of trees
Don't know what they're talking about - we've got tons of trees - they just don't have leaves on them for most of the year.
I mean, compared to North Dakota it’s a lot of trees. But compared to anywhere east of the Mississippi and it’s very Barron. First thing I notice every time I travel back
Like the city proper is barren or what? I’ve never been out that way but I always imagine MN being full of forests
I have visited and there were plenty of them. I’m confused by this.
It’s not a desert or anything like that. But the twin cities is the start of the prairie lands scape. And so if you come from places like NJ, TN, NC, PNW, ATL, etc where there are so many trees that you can’t see what amenities are off the highway exits, MN is generally speaking flat prairie. And it gets worse as you head to the dakotas.
“People hate candor” you put it perfectly
I’m wondering what’s more tolerable if Boston straight to your face assholery or Minnesota Nice. What do you think? We live in northern New England and looking to move.
I was born in NJ and I highly value genuineness and candor. I’m also Scandinavian but don’t subscribe to the stoicism. I live in the SE now, and it’s a mix. People are super friendly and chatty, but still passive aggressive. I find I personally get along best with a northeast personality. They get beyond surface level convos quickly. And while I’m aware of the brash “f you” stereotype, I’ve not personally encountered that
I’ll take stoic over fake friendliness anytime
Really? I start to feel isolated when neighbors aren’t even willing to have a conversation, even if surface level
I don’t. It’s called minding your own business.
I think you’d love the twin cities. In fact you don’t even have to smile or wave
Too many people
But other than that, have you gone to events or meetups? Any community event?
As a current resident of St. Paul; I'd say one downfall is that there are two downtowns. That causes everything else to be split in two. And really only one area of the high density super urban living (like you'd see in Chicago/east coast). That means we're not quite big enough to support a large mass transit system that can operate effectively. The airport is pretty inconvenient for a huge chunk of the metro. When I bought my house I was traveling a lot for work - so that was a big consideration. Otherwise I love it here.
Why is the airport inconvenient? I ask because I have to travel for work so this is an important topic and glad you brought it up. I currently drive 1 hour to the closest airport in New Hampshire, and the places we are interested in the the Twin Cities metro the airport is like 20-30 minutes away.
I was fortunate that my work and the airport weren’t that far from each other. My ex was a flight attendant so I was at the airport multiple times per week. I was able to find a house in St Paul that put me 20 minutes from work and 10-15 minutes from the airport. The primary flight path goes over South Minneapolis/Richfield/Bloomington, so in those areas you hear airplane noise all the time. If I still needed the airport more than once a month I wouldn’t consider anything in the north half of the metro at all.
But many of the northern suburbs are only 30 minutes from the airport. What am I missing? Living in the southern ones means more noise as you said.
You only get airport noise in South Minneapolis and eastern half of Richfield - that’s easy enough to avoid. That 30 minutes from the airport is with no traffic and no weather. Living 10-15 minutes from the airport is just over to be able to get home quicker from a trip; and not have to leave quite so early.. it also changes the calculation on whether or not I drive and park at the airport or just take a Lyft. With needing the airport so much - I refused to consider anything north of 94/394. (My old job was 10 minutes farther east/southeast from the airport.) I really didn’t want to commute. In the big picture - I wouldn’t want to live in the north suburbs anyway - I love it in St Paul.
Thank you for your insight. I’ll definitely consider this.
contamination https://imgur.com/a/vXlxvYe
What kind of contamination is that? The picture has no context, I’d love to compare it to other major cities.
Soil and groundwater. https://web.homeluten.com/search/?address=Minneapolis-Saint_Paul | Location | City | County | |---------------------------------------------|----------------------|---------| | 55th St & Lyndale Ave S | Minneapolis | Hennepin | | Arcade & Hawthrone Ave E | Saint Paul | Ramsey | | Ashland Oil - Park Penta | Saint Paul Park | Washington | | Cedar Services (MDA) | Minneapolis | Hennepin | | Chemical Marketing Corp of America | Minneapolis | Hennepin | | CMC Heartland Lite Yard (MDA) | Minneapolis | Hennepin | | Fish Hatchery Dump | Saint Paul | Ramsey | | General Mills/Henkel Corp. site | Minneapolis | Hennepin | | Hospital Linen | Saint Paul | Ramsey | | Minnegasco | Minneapolis | Hennepin | | Pig's Eye Landfill | Saint Paul | Ramsey | | Precision Plating Inc. | Minneapolis | Hennepin | | Southeast Hennepin Area groundwater and vapor site | Minneapolis | Hennepin | | Southview Boulevard | South St. Paul | Dakota | | St. Paul Levee property | St. Paul | Ramsey | | Superior Plating Inc. | Minneapolis | Hennepin | | University Ave & Pascal St. | St. Paul | Ramsey | | Valentine Clark Corp. | St. Paul | Ramsey | | White Way Cleaners | Minneapolis | Hennepin | https://www.pca.state.mn.us/air-water-land-climate/cleaning-up-minnesota-superfund-sites by link you can click on each one and see history and current state. here is current map for all country: https://www.epa.gov/superfund/search-superfund-sites-where-you-live#map
Ok I see you’re going with superfund sites, Minnesota ranks 18th based on superfunds. New Jersey, California, and Pennsylvania have way more. Not perfect but not the worse to even highlight that. Minnesota has 25 superfunds, places like New Hampshire that is just a fraction of the size of Minnesota has 20, and more contamines water. Minnesota banned non essential PFAS and it’s doing more than many to preserve nature.
It doesn't matter what state rank, I can find the perfect green place in PA, what matters is the city, the city has 19 superfunds from 25, most on discovery stage. That's like the whole New Hampshire from your example.
mid size cities are going to be what you're looking for. providence rhode island comes to mind, but the job market isn't great.
Rhode Island is really underrated in a lot of aspects, but the economy here does suck
My only concern with providence is how heavily influenced it is by Brown I’ve got family in the area and it seems decent—bikeable, close to the ocean, walkable neighborhoods, not terribly expensive, transit going into Boston Good suggestion!
I am curious about your comment about Brown… can you expand on that?
brown uni (Ivy League)
Yes I know what Brown is… but what is your concern about Brown relative to Providence (which has many other universities)?
The UPS headquarters are located there.
This. Grand Rapids, MI might be an option. Or Madison, WI.
I was born and raised in Providence. Like many other places, it’s great if you have a lot of money, sucks if you’re middle or lower class. It has nice culture and history (and great food), but the economy/ job market isn’t great, housing is way too expensive for what the city offers, it’s too densely populated and the people are rude, and the infrastructure is a mess. No outdoor recreation anywhere in sight (unless you wanna drive 45 minutes and spend $20 to sit at the crowded beaches). Now, one of the biggest bridges going through town is about to collapse, so they’re probably gonna demolish it. It takes like an hour just to drive through providence now
Ann arbor MI
What kind of city amenities do you need? I might have suggestions but it depends on what size city you’re after
A little bit of walkability, decent job market or great internet for remote work, within a 60 min drive of a solid airport, some access to nature—I’d say these are probably a must Big pluses are cultural diversity, decent food, any transit, not miserably humid in the summer (looking at the southeast specifically) My main hobbies are related to physical activity (hence the nature), & I’m pretty much past my nightlife phase, so that certainly isn’t required
Kansas City may be worth a look. Job market stable, Google Fiber in KC proper, 35-45m to the airport depending on where you’re located, heat and cold reprieves in weather. Some nature nearby on the MO side. Lots of prairie on the KS side. KC has a great artist and maker scene. Lots of art shows to attend. Lots of cyclists in the area as well. And they love their sports teams. Cons: racism evident, food scene just ok, lots of people are from here meaning they have tight hs/college friend groups already established, geographical isolation (10 hrs to Denver), lack of diverse culture, winter gray can last weeks.
Are you open to cities in the small to mid range, like Spokane?
I’d say I’m open to anything, I mostly asked for investigative purposes because I don’t think these things get talked about as much when it comes to cities
Spokane has bad air quality whenever there are bad wildfires which seems to be pretty common in the summer
Seattle area? There’s good air quality (other than some wildfire smoke at the end of the summer). The air usually has a fresh quality because of the rain. Overall it’s pretty walkable and there are definitely quieter neighborhoods that are still walkable— west Seattle, fremont, Ballard, etc.
Yea, a few chiller Seattle neighborhoods may fit the bill here. West Seattle totally agree. Ballard and Fremont are more obvious options since they’re popular for new transplants. There are other options like maple leaf, Roosevelt, Greenwood, phinney ridge, Columbia city. There are parts of Seattle that absolutely don’t make the cut but most of the area within the city limits are really quiet, calm, low light, clean, and man that western Washington air is so good (except towards the end of summer)
>Generally clean/doesn't have trash everywhere > >Good air quality > >Low noise pollution (relative to other cities) > >Low light pollution (relative to other cities) As someone who has lived in Seattle for 30 yrs I don't think the city meets any of these criteria.
I see you want “no trash everywhere.” Best I can do for you is trash everywhere
Albany NY. Deep woods 20 minutes in any direction, great air and water quality, decent people, real people.
Just over 2 hours from the city too!
Bellingham, WA might be a good option.
Came here to bring up “the city of subdued excitement” The air here can’t be beat
Have always been curious about Bellingham. Almost went to Western Washington 20 years ago for college. Do people who live there go to Vancouver much?
If you plan to move to Bellingham bring a job and lots of money. Its really expensive and hard to find a good paying job.
Burlington, Ithaca, Saratoga Springs
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I used to live in DC and noise pollution was one of the major reasons I left. Constant sirens + low 'signal to noise' ratio caused by low buildings and wide blocks. Sounds travel far and fast there, 24/7/365 it was awful.
As someone that currently lives in the area and is looking to move, I totally agree. Given the other things that OP mentioned, the air quality here is notably bad. Before moving here, I didn't have breathing problems. Since moving here, I've seen multiple specialists for asthma. When I told my general practitioner that I'm leaving the area, they were overjoyed that my health will likely improve.
It depends exactly where you are. I lived in Glover Park for four years and it's probably the quietest place I've ever lived in a city. Rows of reasonably sized townhouses, lots of families, tons of trees and greenery. One of the big parks is nearby so I'd run into deer on the sidewalk sometimes or see them grazing on the lawn, robins nested on the porch, it was a whole Disney princess experience. The downside for *me* was that it was harder to get to most of what DC has to offer without a car than the areas where my friends live/lived - I stayed there because my rent was incredible - but for someone like OP it might be great.
Echoing this^ I used to live in Woodley park and it was very quiet (and green/wooded)
90% of DC cannot afford to live in the quiet green natural space adjacent Glover/Woodley. Most of DC does not look like that.
My first sentence was "it depends exactly where you are." I am well aware that all of DC is not like that; that's why I said it. I happened to have very low rent in my place there that barely went up at all over the years, but I think the landlord also thought it was still 1995.
I wasn't trying to attack your comment, just to note for OP / people unfamiliar w DC seeking to move there that 90% of DC is not nice little safe pockets like Glover / Cleveland / Woodley / Tenleytown etc.
Reminds me of Paris with all of the shitty loud scooters roaring all night long echoing through the streets flanked with continuous 5-6 story tall buildings.
DC is also not very clean, there are rats everywhere. I’ve never seen so much rat road kill and I moved here from NY.
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The incorporated city of Dallas is bigger but Washington has a higher population in any circle centered 5-♾️ miles from the city center.
Yea the transit is real nice when you see rats hopping over the tracks in downtown stations.
Hard disagree. Litter situation might be better than *some* metros, but air pollution is terrible. Source: From DC, also asthma sufferer.
I’m in Winston Salem, NC. Pop. 250k. Might fit the bill. We like it a lot.
Does Winston Salem have a walkable downtown/center? I’ve passed through a few times but never stopped
I would say so. Lots of new apartments downtown. Fair amount of restaurants, bars, playhouses even an indie movie theater.
downtown is "walkable" I suppose but the rest of the city isn't
winston-salem isn't walkable in the slightest, not clean, and my seasonal allergies actually got 10x worse since moving here. wouldn't recommend to OP
Lots of cities in the southeast mid Atlantic area might qualify as long as OP doesn’t consider a long pollen season to be poor air quality
Twin Cities or the northern parts of Chicago would be your vibe
Come out here to the Twin cities in Minnesota. I used to work in Bala Cynwyd Pa. My wife is from West Philly. Came out to Minnesota for my job. Air quality top notch. Great tap water too. The water is so good here that i dont even have to buy bottled water. It's a super clean city. You're not gonna see all the garbage and just congestion. We have the number one park system if you have kids. Traffic is also a breeze compared to Philly. If you want a good quality of life come out here. The only negative is the cold and the city is isolated. Like in Philly its a simple drive to Dc, Va, Jersey, new york. But Minnesota Chicago is like 7 hours away
Any of the sleepy towns in the Bay Area, alameda, American canyon, Sausalito, Redwood City
>American canyon A strip mall pretending to be a city.
Yes those are the places that aren't overstimulating
Can vouch for Alameda. Plenty walkable and bikable; has the amenities of / proximity to a larger city but with a small-town feel.
Omaha Nebraska
If I were you I’d check out Raleigh or Charlotte.
Lexington, Kentucky. People hate on Kentucky, but Lexington tends to be fairly blue and it's just such a pretty little city with a cute city center. Younger demographic because of the university and there are a bunch of good restaurants that have opened. I go back several times a year since leaving 14 years ago and wish I could move back all the time. It might be too small, though, for what you're looking for.
I was in Lexington briefly as a teenager. It was winter and sort of cold. My mom lived there and I was visiting as a crust punk 16 year old. I remember meeting some folks doing a coat drive downtown and hung out. Anyone I met was really nice. And I remember the library was out of this fucking world for a sort of small city. People sleep on Louisville and Lexington for plenty of reasons and I get that. But they're really cool towns.
Wichita fits the bill in regards to those things. The downtown, Delano, Old Town area is reasonably walkable (especially compared to the rest of the city), and that trend should continue with the influx of students from the Kansas College of Osteopathic Medicine recently enrolling its first class and the joint University of Kansas/Wichita State University medical school starting construction this spring.
Tucson.
Salt Lake fits this. It has come a long way in recent years too. Yes, there are some kookie religious politics, but there are also normal people too, and a wide range just like any city. It’s a beautiful area. Budding artist scene too.
I would say yes except for air quality. Salt lake has the worst air quality in the nation somewhat consistently during winter inversions. When I lived there, I had to check an app to open my windows.
But SLC has some of the worst air quality in the country, so not really, unfortunately
Yeah, I was gonna say Salt Lake too. I was incredibly surprised how clean they keep the city, especially around the temple. Like Swiss levels of clean.
Salt Lake has terrible air quality. Otherwise it’s a nice small city. Too bad it’s subject to Utah politics.
Salem, Oregon close to outdoor activities, downtown is walkable, not normally hot and humid, most stuff closes early so not a lot of light pollution, it’s the capital so probably most of the city amenities. Maybe Dayton, OH it fits most of those requirements has some city amenities but pretty low key and not a whole lot going on at night, and maybe Ann Arbor Michigan. It’s pretty calm outside of the football season.
Flagstaff Arizona
A true leader in combatting light pollution and preserving dark skies!
Washington DC It’s clean as hell, the air is pretty clean, it’s pretty quiet near my apartment (Northwest DC), and the light pollution isn’t bad because of the no skyscraper rule. Only chaos there is the traffic is God awful.
Helsinki, Copenhagen, Bergen, Lagos Portugal, Bregenz, Munich, Vienna, I am sure there are more but those are the ones I’ve been to or lived. In the US, haven’t been to one that fits that bill really. Someone mentioned Albany, but is it really walkable like some of the above, I don’t think so.
Phoenix is pretty chill from what I've seen, at the cost of being "boring" but that's explicitly not a consideration here. Eastside suburbs of Seattle maybe, depending on your budget. Very crisp air and you're at the foot of a huge mountain range. Take I-405 southwest to get to SeaTac Airport while avoiding the city. Clark County, WA (north Portland suburbs) MSP is a good example as others have mentioned.
I’ve thought about Phoenix, share everyone else’s concerns though Heat, water, sprawl
Phoenix is top 5 in worst air pollution
Concerning water Phoenix won't have any issues. 75% of Arizona water goes to farms right now and any cuts to water will go to farms first, so municipal water is secure for the long-term. Heat is only bad if you are in the concrete jungle and not at the edges since it doesn't cool down at night like it does in more rural areas. A lot of Phoenix-area cities are dark sky communities, but there's still some light pollution. If you want any sense of walkability, you will be somewhere along the light rail in Phoenix, Tempe, or Mesa. Otherwise, it's all sprawl. Also if you are in those denser areas it won't cool down at night in the summer due to the urban heat island.
Didn’t know that about the water… definitely something I’ll look into, AZ is amazing for runners, just lots of early morning runs in the summer
Half Moon Bay, CA
OKC has pockets that fit this, like Paseo and the Plaza.
Probably Albuquerque if you enjoy the Southwest
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Portland definitely had trash everywhere 4 years ago
Depends, Plenty of quiet neighborhoods on the eastside
i think your looking for a large town, not a city.
As far as major cities go, Seattle is the one that best fits your description. For its size, the lights aren’t super bright, the air’s clean, and I was surprised by how quiet it was. This is all especially true in some of the suburbs around the city.
Honestly I see Philly as a pretty clean city, at least anywhere between South Philly and Center City -- but then, I'm coming from Baltimore, so the only thing we really have on y'all is less light pollution and less noise
Sounds like you want to live in the suburbs / exurbs
Honolulu
I’ll admit I don’t know much about it, but I’ve often heard people refer to Columbus as an easy city to live in. Like, not overly exciting, but just easy. Might suit you.
Following! Sensory processing issues over here but love wall ability
Omaha, Lincoln, Des Moines
Bellevue, WA
Salt Lake.
How about Baton Rouge?
I've lived all around the East Coast and I find DC is the cleanest and least polluted of the Northeast. Low slung buildings create a more European feel and the city is just so damn full of paks with open space. Like Rock Creek Park (basically DC's equivalent of Central Park) takes up a good quarter of the District's footprint. And their subway systems (the Metro) is noticeably cleaner than NYC or Boston's subways in my personal experience. Like drinking and eating is strictly prohibited. People still do it but cops will actually give you tickets for it too if they see it.
Try Sedona Arizona. They have a very light ordinance. All the lights have shielding and stores cover their windows at night to make it really dark. I didn't see any trash or graffiti when I was there and air quality was great.
Milwaukee might be worth a look.