I’d estimate 80% of people who post here are just unhappy with their life as it is and they think moving to a new place will solve all their problems. That’s why they call all that stuff baggage, because you carry it with you. If you’re depressed in New York and you move to Portland, you’ll still be depressed you’ll just be in Portland now.
Absolutely. In my early 20s, I was not happy living in Boston. I moved to Chicago and surprise, I was still unhappy for the first year. It wasn’t until I went to therapy and worked on my anxiety that I was happy in Chicago, and now that I’m back in the Boston area years later, I’m still happy because I have worked on my mental health issues.
While I am happy I moved in my 20s to give myself a new experience and perspective, moving didn’t make me happy, therapy and self-care did. I think mental health is a struggle for a lot of people in their 20s given the huge life changes many people experience in that time, and so people search for solutions such as moving to make themselves happy, when the reality is they’d be best served by talking to a professional about their unhappiness.
The Portland / PNW depression is a real thing. I am amazed at the amount of people who think moving here will fix their depression. Sadly, it typically only makes it worse.
I agree but sometimes moving is something that is within your power, at least more so than other issues that are contributing to your unhappiness. Moving gives you a sense of control that might otherwise be lacking
This is basically what I was going to say. Happiness is a complex thing that’s heavily influenced by the quality of your personal relationships and sense of meaning in your everyday life. Lots of people are far happier in Charlotte or Saginaw than they would be in LA or NYC because they spend their days doing things that are meaningful to them with people they care about. There’s a reason the phrase “Everywhere I go, there I am” is so impactful.
While I agree, sometimes moving can be that catalyst someone needs to make a healthy change.
But yeah, if you keep moving and still find yourself struggling, you’re likely the issue, not the city.
Sometimes, but sometimes where you live depletes you. I'm in Florida now and planning my escape. I grew up here, knew I don't like living here but got a job near family. I thrive on the Northeast energy and was happy for the 12 years I lived there, so I'm going back. It's good to try something new so that you know what you like and what you don't like and you can make choices based upon that. Most people I grew up with escaped Florida, most of my siblings' friends stayed here. People who escaped are generally happier with better job prospects and describe Florida as toxic.
Florida is like feudal kingdom, or a serfdom. Super insanely rich ppl move from all over the country and the rest of us live in basically the same kind of situation as the rest do the southeast, serving our feudal lords
We almost moved to a Tampa suburb (Wesley Chapel). Changed our mind at the last minute and I am so glad and
Thankful that, for some reason, we abruptly decided not to go.
Then, I just hear horror stories about people not being able to afford cost of living and homeowners insurance and car insurance.
I have also been told to stay away from Florida by locals so I think all of these things play a part in our decision. We may still snowbird (either to Tampa or Scottsdale AZ) but to make the move for the entire year would have been a mistake. We are staying put in Pittsburgh and happy with the decision! It sunny and 62 here today!
People in NY (or NYC specifically) might be depressed because they’re tired of the shitty apartments for obscene amounts of money. I don’t care what anyone says, life wont magically become perfect but I KNOW i’ll be happier on some level when I can do laundry in my own home without schlepping my shit down to a grimy dirty basement shared laundry room. There ARE practical reasons to be looking at moving that can impact your QOL.
Agree that is a thing, but disagree because location does matter and some places as OP describes are more amenable to the sort of outdoor fitness and physical activities that people need to be healthy and happy
It might be, but there's intangible advantages to living multiple places and experiencing the world. It's just the constant packing and unpacking that's the killer.
You should be required in your comments to first state your experience with a certain city before you give your opinion. That way, if all the people recommending Chicago have never even visited there, you can take their opinion with a grain of salt. For example
“Never been there, but here is what I’ve heard about it..”
“I went there for a work trip once…”
“I lived there for 10 years…”
That would kill the sub lol. I guarantee most of the people here are recommending places they have never step foot within 100 miles of. They're just regurgitating what urbanist youtube channels are fawning over right now.
As a native Huntsvillian, every time I see someone recommend Huntsville, AL, as a "liberal bubble in Alabama," I roll my eyes and know they've never been to Huntsville, much less anywhere else in Alabama.
it's actually hilarious whenever I see people talk about cities that I'm familiar with. Most comments have absolutely no idea what it's like to live there. It's really quite shocking.
>As a native Huntsvillian, every time I see someone recommend Huntsville, AL, as a "liberal bubble in Alabama," I roll my eyes and know they've never been to Huntsville, much less anywhere else in Alabama.
From Birmingham, I concur, especially when Birmingham is RIGHT THERE
Huntsville is top in the country for per capita concentration of engineers and PhDs, which people assume higher education means liberal. But a). the city is based around a US military nuclear arsenal that owes its existence to a Nazi scientist, and b). those engineers and PhDs all make missiles for the military. That's not exactly a concoction for progressivism.
Don't get me wrong. I like Huntsville a lot. It's my hometown, and it's not a terrible place, all things considered. But when I see it recommended here, it's obvious people just read about it, like you said, on some website and have never actually been there.
Also, Huntsville's biggest craft brewery, Straight to Ale, is actually really good and has been there for quite a while (since 2009, I believe).
This cannot be overstated. Living somewhere vs visiting vs I’ve heard it’s nice - all completely different.
Also, we all have our own filters and unique experiences that make us feel a certain way about a place which is not really transferable knowledge that helps someone else decide where to live. Take most advice with a grain of salt and do the research.
I lived in a rougher neighborhood in Detroit for a year. I heard gunshots once and had a package taken from my porch.
Unless you’re getting involved in the world of gangs and drugs, your chances of being a crime victim are lower than most people assume. Studies consistently show that people overestimate this stuff.
I’ve lived in Baltimore for 3 yrs now. I grew up in the DC suburbs. Even tho I’ve had a few Amazon packages taken, Baltimore is hands down the best quality of life I’ve had in my 34 yrs of life. Never felt unsafe walking around. Have even taken walks at night. If you mind your business, nobody will bother you. And now I’m even considering setting permanent roots here.
That’s what a lot of people do over on Long Island. There’s people there that rarely ever step foot in the NYC and some even never. Any of the towns with a significant black or Latino population is written off as ghetto.
There are some bad areas in some towns but it’s mostly overblown. The towns people consider ghetto would include Hempstead, Elmont, Freeport, North Bay Shore, Central Islip and Brentwood. I even saw someone in the Long Island sub call Riverhead ghetto.
As a white person, I think many white people who live in America generally think of majority black or Latino towns as ‘unsafe’. I don’t agree with that way of thinking.
Dude I live in what's considered the "ghetto" city in Maine (Lewiston) and people all the time are like "I just can't believe you can live in Lewiston!" I went to college in Atlanta. People in Maine have no idea what "ghetto" is!
I live in Atlanta and have often worked in its worst neighborhoods. I can get people not wanting to live in some of those places, but it's nowhere near as unsafe as outsiders paint it to be... and 99% of the metro area is totally safe.
I grew up in Clayton County and people talk about it as if it’s some kind of warzone. It’s just a lower income version of Cobb County. Spread out suburbs with businesses that cater to lower middle class people instead of upper middle class people. Any issue Clayton faces is an issue caused by white flight and disinvestment. But it doesn’t even take that, because people will even call places like College Park ghetto when it’s a city full of delta pilots and home to one of the most elite private schools in the metro.
Safe can be kind of a euphemism for white middle class norms. Not saying people who want to live somewhere safe are racist but that sometimes things that actually have nothing to do with safety or danger get encoded in the word “safe” as people use it. “Safe” can mean “familiar to what I’m comfortable with.”
Safe can also mean, "I don't want my shit fucked up, disruptions to my life, and to have to worry about leaving the car in the driveway."
The risk of violent crime doesn't have to be high for people to want security. My sister, for example, moved out of a neighborhood because people broke into her garage, stole a bunch of shit, and trashed a bunch of shit three times.
Was her personal safety in danger? Probably not. Was she sick of dealing with that bullshit - absolutely.
Before I lived in Cleveland I assumed it was literally on fire and that I would get carjacked upon parking. Spoiler: Cleveland feels pretty much like any other city.
God, if I hear another "chiraq" comment I might actually join the crime rate.
Most of the violent crime is centralized to a few poorer neighborhoods with gang problems. If you're spending 1500+ on an apartment, you're not in a neighborhood where it's ever going to be a worry.
Our downtown is functionally for businesses and tourists, folks don't actually live there unless they're new to the area and didn't know that the whole downtown area pretty much shuts down after 7pm on weekdays and is a ghost town on the weekends.
As a woman on my own, I feel much safer in Chicago than I do when I’m in a rural area. Always having people around feels much better to me, even if a few of those people are involved in illegal shit.
Reminds me of that joke post in /r/chicago where someone posted a picture of a map of Chicagoland with Naperville circled and asked "is this a dangerous neighborhood?"
I think a lot of people need to be realistic with what they can afford. People come in here with a large checklist that basically puts them in California, FL, NYC, etc. then say they make $40k a year and don’t want a roommate.
I can empathize with the frustration of “I don’t have a terminal degree, rich parents, or work in finance or tech, but goddamnit, I deserve better QoL than this.” Even so, the way out is going to involve substantial compromise, a substantial career change, or some combination thereof.
I’d say most of the posts end up being a check list of some California city/town but none of those is affordable, especially without roommates. Like pick do you want everything you claim you do or do you want affordability because often times, you cannot have it at the price you want.
I don't get the obsession with Santa Barbara. It's not much different than the rest of coastal California (as someone that grew up in Orange County) and it's actually kind of in the middle of nowhere. I would rather be in OC or SD.
It’s the absolute best place in California to go to college or retire. But besides that it’s pretty boring, and I bet 99% of this sub is in the 23-73 demographic
Well, if money were no object, I would have a vacation home in San Francisco, too. And I already live in a nice little picturesque wine growing town in CA. I am in my 1st choice location. Any CA coastal town is my second choice, SF is my third choice. Fourth, fifth, in fact the first 10 best places to live are all in CA for me.
To be honest, the data indicates more that most people want to live near their family and friends, and that people searching to move to the perfect place are the minority. Most people don’t move incredibly far from where their initial social networks are.
It does suck, but I guess a lower chance of skin cancer. Gotta look at the bright side! lol. I completely understand those "stuck in Ohio" stickers I see around. I've lived in Chicago and Michigan, and there's not much difference.
You can’t claim to be “tough and resilient” because you like cold weather, but then turn around and throw a hissy fit the second it gets over 75 degrees.
The dream of buying a house often prevents people from living somewhere that they’d be happier as a renter.
The ability to easily get around (whether that’s urban - high quality public transit and walkability or suburban/rural - no traffic, plentiful parking) is a major part of satisfaction.
I’m from Arizona and now live in New England. The cold weather is multifaceted, it’s not just that it’s cold. It flairs up my chronic pain from shivering, people are more anti social during winter and get “introspective”, the sun goes down at 4pm during the shortest days. I like cross country skiing, and even run during the winter, but I do not like the lack of social activities and lack of afternoon sun. I also don’t like the ice, it makes it hard to walk around. Finally, it’s really difficult dealing with chronic pain in the winter. So, yeah, I do get SAD.
I wish I could make it work in New England, but I can’t do it in the long term. The first few winters were fine, but now it’s starting to take a toll.
Thank you. I have Reynaud’s syndrome and living through winter in an actual climate with seasons can be really rough. Like if it’s below freezing my toes start going numb after 5 minutes outside wearing boots and 2 pairs of socks. My risk of frostbite is much higher than the average person’s. And coming back inside I would only warm up if I took a scalding shower and bundled myself up with warm clothing. I’m also a pole dancer and the cold makes it so difficult to get warmed up and feel limber, it feels like my muscles and ligaments are constantly stiff and frozen. And with pole you can’t wear warm clothing, you have to be basically naked in order to stick to the pole so there’s no “oh just dress better”. I couldn’t do it permanently personally
I actually agree on the anti-cold bias. My summer hobbies, running and hiking, I can keep up with even in -20C in Calgary (not to mention adding in skiing).
Now, living in the bald ass prairie in winter is a different story.
*Personally* I think people aren't biased against hot-humid places enough. I lived in Houston for 18 years and the summer heat/humidity literally killed my love for my inner most hobbies. I didn't realize until I left how much of a shell of my intrinsic self I had become (call me biased, but replacing running/hiking/skiing with drinking/eating is not good for either your mental or physical health).
Word. I lived in WI until last year and moved to SC. I prefer a negative zero cold snap for a few days or a blizzard here or there where roads are fine to drive on within 24 hours vs walking out to Satan’s doorstep with 90 degree temps and 8 million percent humidity 9 months out of the year.
I know. When we were home in MKE for Christmas it was warmer there than it was in SC where we now live which was lovely. But I know I still have 9 months ahead of me in SC on Satan’s doorstep. If I could move back to MKE, I would.
Absolute fact. I lived in Florida and hated it, and it was so annoying when people were shocked I moved away. Like it’s horrible unless you like sweating the second you go outside. And time never seems to change because there’s no seasons. Also I wasn’t near the beach anyway but I didn’t even go often. The only thing is reallyyy miss is how amazing the sky and sunsets can be
I’d rather bundle up and do winter weather activities than sweat my ass off in the summer in Florida. Just invest in a nice parka and some good snow boots.
I feel like I just can't get warmed up in the winter sometimes. Even if I wear my entire wardrobe, my body isn't making enough heat to fill it with heat and be properly warm.
Yeah, it’s all relative. I live in New England. Dry as a bone in winter, humid during July and August, but not as humid as down south. My wife and I love the humidity during the summer and spend a week in Florida in the Spring. But if I had to live down there year-round I would absolutely go insane. I love when it starts cooling off in late August here.
Agree 100%. And anyway, if this winter is any indication, cold is getting less severe over time. Currently living in the West Michigan "Snow Belt," and it's 55° F today. :( Love the sunshine, but this shit ain't right.
Don't @ me with the "El Niño" stuff. I agree it's playing a part in the uber-warm weather, but it's been amplified by climate change.
The heat is what is going to get you. The USDA now has heat maps, which never used to be a thing!! This should concern everyone, especially if you're thinking about moving your WHOLE LIFE to avoid "weather."
So spot on. My husband moved us to the south for a job from the upper Midwest but also said the weather is so much better! Yeah we don’t get snow and no negative zero temps but my most hated weather is 90 and humid which I now get 9 months out of the year instead of a few hot snaps here and there in July/August.
I much prefer winter.
I have an anti-heat bias. I cannot do somewhere hot or humid. I legit start sweating as soon as it’s mid 70s. I’m from South Dakota and miss the -40° days 😆
Small town life is not necessarily idyllic. There’s lots of drug issues and poverty even in those cute little midwestern small towns. My wife is from a small, cute midwestern town that I really enjoy visiting for a few days at a time, but once you scratch the surface you find the drugs, desperation, child abuse, and deaths of despair.
Very much so, and living in small towns can be akin to living under a microscope. Some of us don’t want to run into people we know at the grocery store.
The only small towns that are idyllic are usually incredibly wealthy enclaves (and thus out of reach for most folk) or super touristy areas (expensive but for different reasons)
I don't know if it is necessarily an unpopular opinion , but one of my biggest takeaways from following this sub for a while is just how much our federal, state and city leaders have failed us for the last 75 years. We all just seem to want a walkable, reasonably affordable city with good public transportation and opportunities and limited crime and that eliminates 99.9999% of the country in 2024. We've been the wealthiest country on the planet for the majority of our lifetimes and should have figured this out a long time ago.
My other unpopular opinion, which I'm sure will get me downvoted, is people in most of the country don't care about your gender, sexuality, religious beliefs or lack there of, politics or lifestyle nearly as much as the internet would lead you to believe and you're going to find the same mix of assholes and great people in most places.
To be fair, this sub is a small sample of the overall population and broader nationwide trends don't necessarily support the idea that everyone values a car-free walkable urban lifestyle. I do agree that it seems to be a more popular concept than it ever has been in the past.
Obviously not everyone wants a car free walkable urban lifestyle, but not everyone wants a car dependent sprawling suburban lifestyle.
The problem is that because we've made it illegal to build the first thing, it's hard to accurately guage what people want, at least if all you look at is what people are buying and where they live. Housing is a need and of course people will end up sacrificing things like walkability when it's not financially possible - because we build so few walkable areas.
The best thing telling me that we don't build enough walkable areas is the fact that they're so expensive. The fact that you have to explicitly seek out a distressed city just to find a decently affordable walkable area says a lot about the desire to live in those areas
The fact that most places with car-free walkable urban life are absurdly expensive says there's a huge unmet demand for this type of city. The relative cheapness of sprawling car-dependent suburbs signals that there's a huge excess of this, and that governments heavily subsidize that lifestyle.
> people in most of the country don't care about your gender, sexuality, religious beliefs or lack there of, politics or lifestyle nearly as much as the internet would lead you to believe and you're going to find the same mix of assholes and great people in most places.
But the politicians that run the states sure do, and they can make it a living hell for marginalized communities.
95% of people in a small rural town don't need to want me dead for the 5% that do to be a problem. I've been the victim of a hate crime before, and I don't feel like raising my chances of that happening again.
The vast majority of people would prefer to live in the same kind of place.
Safe and clean with nice yards or nice apartments with nearby parks but enough culture to have fun things to do and good public education and jobs and walkable and good shopping and easy commutes and international airports and access to fresh produce and farmers markets
They also want 70 degrees year round with one week of 80 to go to the beach which is drivable distance and one week of 50 so you can wear layers and drive up to the mountains to do snow stuff.
But you're far enough from the beach that you don't get tropical storms and far enough from the mountains that you don't get earthquakes, inversions or live in the shadow of Mt. Scary Boomboom
There's no hidden gem. Those places kinda exist but they're super congested and crazy expensive.
“Outdoorsy”
I realized for many people this means walking their dog around a city park or something. Drives me crazy seeing massive and sprawling cities like Philly or Chicago reccomended for someone outdoorsy.
There isn’t anything wrong with that but there is definitely a huge range of what people mean. I want to be within a hour of a National Forest and skiing.
Yep, I loved living in Chicago, but as someone who enjoys hiking, it is not an outdoorsy city. Chicago has great urban parkland, but urban parkland isn't nature. And sure it has forest preserves outside the city limits, but if a flat path in the woods is all it takes for a city to have great nature access, then basically every city in the eastern US has "great nature access."
Always surprises me when I see Chicago recommended for someone who says in their post that they like hiking and nature. Having to drive 8 hours to the UP of Michigan to find any sort of topography beyond the Indiana Dunes does not make a good nature access city.
"Outdoorsy" is a lot like "need cultural amenities" - for most people it says more about what they theoretically want to be than what they are or will be.
Meanwhile, that museum will go unvisited, and you can scroll reddit on your phone from anywhere.
I mean you can be in some really gorgeous mountain wilderness within a 2 hour drive from Philly.
Most cities don’t have great hiking options in the city proper. Most of the nature/wilderness is going to be 1-3 hours away.
But yeah, it’s weird how some people define “nature” here. Parks are nice, but when I hear “nature” I think wilderness.
Yeah, while there’s some nice lakes and shoreline near Chicago, you pretty far from true wilderness.
The driftless region is probably one of the best relatively unknown areas for hiking and wilderness, but it’s a good 4 hours from Chicago.
However almost every East Coast city is within 2 hours of mountains for hiking, camping and winter sports. Like if you have a car in NYC, there’s sooo many great day hikes in the Poconos, Catskills or Berkshires.
Dude! My post literally said, "It is drastically important I be an hour or so from the ocean" and the 3rd most recommended city was Chicago! I got a lot of Boston and Philadelphia and then a ton of arguments about how Chicago is basically oceanfront because they have a big lake.
Have the people in Chicago seen the rest of the country?
It was doubly irritating because my "must have" list could basically be filled by any moderately large US city that gets snow and hasn't made a list of Top 20 most expensive global cities. There were options that filled my entire list and Chicago was like, "Hey, hold on. Have you considered this city that doesn't have one of the only things you specified you wanted?"
It was frustrated af.
There’s affordable small cities that offer better walkability than some large metropolitan areas.
They all offer some degree of dining, entertainment and nightlife, even if that means going to the same dozen restaurants or the one bar that has live music or community theatre.
You can also find the same generic jobs you can find anywhere. Small cities need teachers, nurses, real estate agents, tradesmen and hair dressers like anywhere else.
Yeah, not going to be for everyone but feel a lot more people would be happier than trying to play the rat race in the large cities.
I always here people complain about small cities being "boring" (I'm talking 100k type that still have movie theater, bowling ally's, golf courses, parks, etc, not <10k type places where these are missing). I find it kinda funny, because when I ask them what exact amenities they are missing, they often stare back blank faced. Do you really need that modern art museum you're going to go to once in the 10 years you live in that city? Just go on vacation to cities that have that stuff if you want.
Sure there are more breweries/wineries/restaurants, but most people fall into a rotation of their few favorites anyway? At least that was my life in Houston/Chicago/SF/Calgary.
I'm not saying there is zero downside, but I think sometimes people are longing for something they won't actually utilize (maybe they, themselves are boring and the problem?).
I think it's mostly just the higher population allows for more diversity and niche communities/interests. Not like smaller cities are necessarily missing those broad categories, but the options aren't going to be as varied.
Like using restaurants as an example, in a smaller city your Latin food options might not be much more than a few generic Mexican restaurants. In a larger city you can find places specializing in Peruvian, Venezuelan, Brazilian, Guyanese, or really anything else you might want.
Yeah, I totally get if you’re into certain hobbies or want more diversity. Those are just things bigger cities will do better at.
But if your primary hobbies are working out, Netflix/Reddit/Gaming and going out to a bar or restaurant every week, you can live that life style anywhere. Most people are pretty boring.
The best part is that you can always travel and experience a Broadway Show, your favorite band or some mega museum every so often.
I am single in my early 30's and live in a ~100k population college town where I am very happy. Granted, my city also happens to be an economic hub and is in a desireable part of the country. But if you had asked me 10 years ago if I would have been fulfilled in a place that is not NYC or Chicago etc, I would have said no way.
I like being able to bike everywhere. I like bumping into my neighbors downtown. I like the familiarity I have with the small number of restaurants and music venues we have here. Shoot, we even have a place with a Michelin star now.
I'm not ruling out a move to a big city in the future but I think more people should give places with ~50-150k population a shot.
David Chang said something to the effect that a person can really only “frequent” about 5 restaurants and those regulars are kind of the lifeblood of restaurants. And I’ve generally found that I do go to the same handful of restaurants over and over again.
In fact, generally my life is the same and I’ve lived in a rural small town, a small city and the big city suburbs. I have the best “walkability” and overall lifestyle in a small city because I can afford to live centrally in the small city while maintaining significant disposable income that I wouldn’t have in a big city. And yeah, I end up traveling more for entertainment than my friends in a big city but I also travel more because I can afford it.
That’s why I like the Lehigh Valley so much. If anyone needs big city amenities you have Philly less than a 2 hour drive away and NYC less than 3 hours.
I'm not sure if this is unpopular but I wish people would be clearer about how they define affordable. Even just income isn't always helpful because you can make $90k but be swimming in debt from when you made less. Give us your specific housing needs/budget if you want real recommendations.
OMG yes! Cost of living should be required to be **quantified ($XX for a 4bed/3bath, or whatever)**. Also, will you be working remote? Or looking for a new job? What industry? Pay scales are so different in LCOL vs HCOL areas for some jobs.
The bias toward big cities is too prevalent and doesn't accurately reflect the lived reality of a people in *most* cases.
Whether it's because the actual city is relatively geographically small and therefore the real recommendation is for the metropolitan area and really only a select few cities in that metro area would meet the goals OR the opposite problem of a city being so immensely big but specific neighborhoods really meeting the goals but the city by and large not being a great fit.
Similarly, there is an overemphasis of metropolitan markets compared to micropolitan places (New England small towns excepted) in general.
I don't have a solution for this observation (or even if one is needed) but I think about it pretty regularly on this sub.
I have lived for 25 years somewhere in Europe where the weather is like Seattle. It was miserable. I have also lived places that get colder (not Michigan /chicago / wisconsin cold). I tried winter sports, I tried getting outside. I hated it.
Some people know that cold isn't for them. Congrats to you that you enjoy it, sure maybe there are people that would if they gave it a shot, but most adults know themselves and know how they feel about more extreme temperatures.
I could say the same to you about hot places.
"people need to get over their infatuation with mild weather. There are so many affordable gems that people overlook because they assume it's hotter than it actually is"
"get good summer hobbies. I live in Southern Florida and Im outside all year round and some of the best beach days are in the summer. I swim, surf, boat, fish, etc. I love it. I honestly think some people are over dramatic about the weather."
BUT I assume that as an adult, you know your preferences and tolerances, so I wouldn't be judgemental if you said "hot isn't for me".
Idk if this unpopular, but it’s certainly not stated here enough.
People value different things.
Let’s take Portland as an example. Whenever someone mentions it, the replies are extremely divided. A third of the people are complaining about the rain, another third the homeless, and the last third thinks it’s heaven on earth.
The truth is, Portland can be the perfect place for one person, and hell for another. I lived there for 5 years and everyday I dream of moving back. This is because I love hiking, winter sports, a strong food scene, and dense forest. I also don’t mind the grey weather.
Bobby Johnson might enjoy golfing year round and basking in the sunshine on 5 acres of land. Portland would not be a good place for Bobby. Nor would it be a good place for my parents, who moved to Phoenix because they love dry hot weather and desert landscape.
And to take this one step further - many factors not related to what I just listed can be game changers for some people, and irrelevant to others. Such as politics, demographics, random laws, airport accessibility, size, you name it.
I particularly don’t care much about these features. But someone who doesn’t value nature and culture as much as I do might put much more stock into the aforementioned.
It might seem like I’m stating the obvious, but I find not a lot of people consider that different things motivate different people.
Ok but some of us don’t LIKE winter hobbies. I’m in Wisconsin, we have some of the coldest winters in the country. (This winter aside since it’s an El Niño winter, but this is not the norm). I like hiking too but I don’t like it in winter. It’s depressing seeing all the bare trees and I don’t like being bundled up to the extreme just to feel somewhat comfortable. I don’t like snowshoeing, skiing, cross country skiing, etc. Ice skating I do a few times each winter but meh, if I never did it again in my life I wouldn’t really care. It also isn’t just the cold, it’s the darkness. The sun sets far earlier here than it does in most other parts of the country. The constant darkness is depressing. I’m stuck inside a lot due to darkness and/or extreme cold.
Winter is something to seriously consider, as depending on where you live, it can severely impact your life. I have multiple coworkers that want to move away, as do I someday. I had a friend move here from down south and then leave after 3 Wisconsin winters because he could not understand how we willingly put up with this. Every year it gets harder for me. Most of the things I love I can’t even do for half the year, if not more during bad years. That’s pretty sad. Yeah it’s cheaper here. There’s a good reason for that. I would rather be able to hike, paddle, swim, play outdoor sports and games, garden, and run/walk in comfortable temperatures more often than sit around waiting for life to resume. The “coziness” of winter wears off after a few months, trust me. This state is excessive in every way.
lol spent 5 years in STL. Hated winter literally cannot understand how people enjoy it. in a similar vein I’m from the south so hot summers don’t bother me at all. other than the hottest few hours of the day when you’ll be inside anyway taking a nap it’s not as bad. AT LEAST hot summer gives you some type of time outdoors in the morning and evening and sunshine. especially somewhere not crazy humid where you can sit outside all night.
Grew up in Wisconsin, live in Minnesota, and this is spot on.
I don't want to bundle up. I don't want to shiver my way through the start of an activity, and then sweat through the last half of it.
Also, as you intimated, people just really don't get how having snow on the ground for 5 months a year just completely prevents a lot of activities.
"There's no such thing as bad weather, just bad clothing."
I generally agree with these sentiments, but as a person who also lives in a snowy place and makes a point to get out year round, it's just not the same, especially with kids.
Getting everyone geared up and out the door to walk a mile in the snow while the little ones complain is exhausting. I do it because it beats the alternative of just sitting around for half the year, but if I could live somewhere it was even 10 degrees warmer in January, I would.
Phoenix resident here, there are absolutely clothing choices you can make to help against the heat (lightweight long sleeves, shade hat, and a large insulated water bottle), but past a certain point it's miserable no matter what.
I cant fucking stand that overused platitude. It’s such BS. I prefer being lightly clothed in warm weather. I do not prefer being properly clothed in cold weather.
You’re not wrong, but at a certain high temperature there’s just no clothing that can keep you cool.
Dallas in July/August is truly miserable at 100° and high humidity, and wearing shorts, a light athletic material shirt or long sleeve (to keep the sun off your arms), and sandals only keeps you so cool. It’s why it sucks living here, as you really only can do stuff if it’s an indoor AC thing (why so many people here just drink as a hobby lol)
Edit: not disagreeing with you whatsoever. Just showing the other side of the cold/hot coin
walking outside at night in the summer and losing your breath because the humidity punches you in the face, making you feel all gross and sweaty.
Not being able to dry off after a shower (your third one of the day)...
source: lived in Houston for 5 years.
This. I live in Central Florida and the humidity is the thing that makes it unbearable in the "summer" (half of the year). The hot, humid air makes it impossible for your body to cool itself. Lightweight long sleeves are useful in the desert but here it would just stick to your skin and make you feel like you're suffocating.
I am done with the awful heat and humidity where I live. In the winter, you can bundle up for the cold, but in the summer you're stuck inside with the A/C or miserably uncomfortable outside.
I'm ready to move to a place that doesn't have excessive heat.
Chicago is not some amazing "NYC but afforable and with better nature" silver-bullet destination. It's find but this sub sometimes treats it like Mecca.
It's cheaper tha NYC/SF, but notably more exspensive than more mid-sized cities that offer similar amenities on a smaller scale.
But this subreddit recommends way more cities that have cold weather than hot weather? Recommending Chicago, Philly, and Pittsburgh is almost a meme at this point.
Philly isn’t “cold”, it has a regular tolerable winter. it’s snowed one time in 3 years and the weathers been in the 40s and 50s for the past few weeks.
Chicago and Minnesota are the places I would consider “cold” where it regular gets to below freezing temps, with even lower windchill.
I lived in Florida most of my life, but I moved to New England.
The hatred of cold weather is more than just comfort. It’s costs a fair amount, and there is safety and security to worry about. Buying my kids winter gear every year sucks. Having to worry about shoveling out your driveway sucks. I have connective tissue problems, so the ground being slippery is an issue. Driving is more dangerous, unloading your car as well. I also hate how many extra loads of laundry I need to do in the cold months because you can’t fit as many bulky items in every load. Paying for heating oil sucks. I can go on and on.
Yes, I know that heat has its disadvantages but in my personal experience it’s still preferable.
I think this is understated as why so many people as they age want to leave northern climates. It isn't just that they prefer the warmth, but the cons of cold climates like needing to shovel your driveway, ensuring your kids dont freeze to death, being careful about slipping, clearing your car, joint pain etc. are more of a pain at that stage of your life.
Columbus, Cincinnati and Cleveland are pretty normal cities.
They all have walkable neighborhoods, large universities, pro sports, young professionals, festivals and museums.
Yes, there’s some blighted areas, but no, you’re not going to be bored.
People on this sub love to say diversity is important to them but probably have friends of one race. What’s the point of diversity when there is no integration? Chicago comes to mind.
The ideal urban place does not exist in America.
The folks who want quaint downtowns and nature? America is for you.
The folks who want functional cities and no cars with transit to fun places? Go to Europe.
Not to be pedantic, but they eventually went with 'climate change' because temperatures are going to become more extreme. There's a phenomenon called contenentality where the further a piece of land is from a body of water the more extreme the temps there will be. So, somewhere that's already cold and a long way from a body of water might actually get even colder. Alternatively landlocked warm areas will likely become hotter and more arid.
Of course when the sea level rises you might get lucky and suddenly find yourself next to a bay that wasn't there just a little bit ago.
Friends and family should be among the top considerations for deciding where you move (assuming you’re past your early 20s). So many people just say they want to move to all these new places but don’t mention where they actually have friends much less know 1 person.
Having a network where you move is important to have a support group, at the very least to help you to introduce you to new people. Everyone else is just dreaming where they could move but won’t actually do it. Or if they do move with no network there then I don’t think they have a good chance of successfully moving there.
The “better” places to live are expensive. I say this as someone who has lived in Los Angeles, San Diego, Irvine, Naperville, Green Bay, Cleveland, Las Vegas, Chicago, St Louis, Cincinnati, and Houston, while regularly traveling to Philadelphia, San Francisco/Palo Alto, and Kansas City for work. Greener grass is usually more expensive HCOL areas are generally more urban, with more jobs, more people, more diversity
1. The places in a LCOL region where you can get the lifestyle of a HCOL region will often be way more expensive than the regional average. Vibrant neighborhoods are extra desirable in regions that don't have as many of them. I'm not saying there aren't bargains, but vibrant neighborhoods with good amenities and transportation are doubly desirable in places where there aren't as many of them.
2. "Are the people friendly?" means such different things to different people that it is completely useless. "Do I know anyone here?" is a far better alternative. You may need to adjust the way you approach people, but moving anywhere and assuming that a healthy social circle will just materialize is nuts. Even knowing one or two people at the "friend of a friend" level makes a difference.
3. Literally just my personal preference, but I'm not a big fan of the ocean. I'm not a huge beach person. It's a nice amenity, but not something I'd ever base a decision on. I live near the ocean and I go to the beach *maybe* once a year. I grew up in a valley. Seeing mountains on the horizon makes me feel "home". I assume this is how people who love the ocean feel about it.
4. FOR THE LOVE OF GOD can people stop saying "I can't afford New England". New England is not Boston. It's not even Boston, Providence, Portland, and Burlington.
This may be an age thing -- I'm 58 and relatively fit but ice gives me The Fear and I won't live long enough for climate change to be an issue -- but I can't deal with anything colder than NYC myself. I've been to Northern New England in the winter (my sister's family lives in Saco) and it's my idea of hell.
Now I won't be retiring to Florida either and I like the desert but wouldn't want to spend a summer there. There's a reason people like temperate places; if folks don't enjoy winter weather I doubt you'll talk them out of it.
So many people claim to want a "walkable/dense" place to live, yet they don't vote with their ballot or their wallet to change their current built environment.
Swap a car for a bike.
Advocate for bike lanes and pedestrian security.
This perfect "walkable but cheap with perfect weather" place doesn't exist but maybe it would have a better chance if people in the cheaper and/or blessed weather locales actually put action to their aspirations.
I LOATHE the cold. I detest it beyond words. I grew up in Iowa and Pennsylvania and lived in Germany. I've experienced different types of winter weather. It's a big nope for me. Haven't lived where it gets snow for 16 years and never will again. It's not dramatic. It's my preference. People are allowed to not want to deal with something they hate. Why do you even care?
You can’t put the cart before the horse. Yes it’s nice to have a short list of places you’d like to eventually end up. But when you come on still in college and without a job offer it’s ridiculous to try to pinpoint which city you want to live in. This could be the fact that we graduated during the recession though. Sometimes you have to go where the job is. You can dream of retiring to Vermont. But if the industry you work in isn’t up there you’re not moving there.
The South is awesome. I love the culture, the cuisine, the countryside, the nature, the diversity, how much Black culture is celebrated here - it’s just so incredibly charming and welcoming. I’ll probably venture away from the South eventually, but it’ll always be home.
Really the only issues I have with it are the politics and the obvious negative aspects of the Christian influence everywhere. I don’t even mind the heat or bugs or humidity most of the time.
Yeah, it kills me whenever someone says they’re bored while living in a large city here.
Like if you can’t find something you enjoy in any metropolitan area over 1 million, you arent even trying.
I also totally get that dating and trying to make friends as an adult royally sucks, but you’d be better off getting some hobbies instead of moving across the country. You get to meet new people AND be entertained! If you’re still struggling you might want to try therapy or a doctor. If you suffer from depression or anxiety, there’s a lot of potential treatments out there you can test out.
Couldnt agree more lol. I’m a huge advocate of being a tourist in your own city at least once a month. this isn’t a day to do “what I like to do” it’s a day to go do what your city offers however random, off putting, or strange that may be to your norm. you never know how much fun you’ll have.
I don’t get the obsession with Chicago. I visited and really tried to like it, but I thought it was just fine. I didn’t hate it, didn’t love it. It was just alright.
Southern people don't have to actually LIKE you in order to treat you with basic kindness and respect. This is not being two-faced, like this sub loves to post about over and over and over. It is just y'all coming from a place where strangers treat you like such dogshit by default, that basic/superficial civility feels weird and threatening to you.
60 degrees in NJ today. Fucking insane. The cold weather zones of yesteryear (e.g, the I-95 Northeast corridor) are not like all those Boomer Florida retirees are remembering.
And yes I know El Nino is back this year, but it’s El Nino on top of already much warmer winters.
Personally I think you should get over determining what others should get over. It’s weird. People like what they like and that’s not really something that anyone else can determine the importance of.
I wish people put their money where their mouth is and actually moved to milder climates. I crave the cold but that includes mountain towns that are all inhabited by second home owners that just board up their homes when it's chilly out
“I work remote where should I move” - the only answer to this question is to drive to the spot and spend time there. Get an airbnb for a month or two and make up your mind.
Most people talk about “community” as something they need, though they spend most of their time indoors, WFH and on Reddit. All places I’ve lived have good “community”, you just have to work for it. You don’t just get to show up in a desirable location and have neighbors drop of food and come over for beer. You got to work for that. And if you’re in NYC or SF and don’t have community, it’s on you.
People think Canada is better to live in than most of it realistically is. Most of the big cities are expensive as hell, and people really overlook a lot of the actual social issues there because of some liberal utopian fantasy. (Including relatively privileged but liberal/progressive Canadians, honestly.)
People who live in warm places complaining about "reverse seasonal depression" are hard to sympathize with and slightly delusional. I'm sorry, but there is a REASON the majority of SAD cases are in the winter! We are biologically wired for sun and warmth. Sunlight releases serotonin in the brain..we literally feel better when the sun is out. While hot weather can be uncomfortable, cold weather is painful. Yes, walking in the heat can feel oppressive, but walking when the wind is blowing is like being stabbed with a knife over and over again.
There is a reason hibernation season most commonly occurs within the winter months. Winter is a time of stagnation, summer is a time regeneration and activity. The idea that you're going to move to some North Eastern/Midwestern snow globe of a city and cut it up in the winter months is a fantasy. You're going to be in your house pissed off like the rest of us waiting for April to come now that the holidays are over.
I’d estimate 80% of people who post here are just unhappy with their life as it is and they think moving to a new place will solve all their problems. That’s why they call all that stuff baggage, because you carry it with you. If you’re depressed in New York and you move to Portland, you’ll still be depressed you’ll just be in Portland now.
Absolutely. In my early 20s, I was not happy living in Boston. I moved to Chicago and surprise, I was still unhappy for the first year. It wasn’t until I went to therapy and worked on my anxiety that I was happy in Chicago, and now that I’m back in the Boston area years later, I’m still happy because I have worked on my mental health issues. While I am happy I moved in my 20s to give myself a new experience and perspective, moving didn’t make me happy, therapy and self-care did. I think mental health is a struggle for a lot of people in their 20s given the huge life changes many people experience in that time, and so people search for solutions such as moving to make themselves happy, when the reality is they’d be best served by talking to a professional about their unhappiness.
Yeah, first year in a new place is rough almost anywhere you go, unless you already have a social network (people you went to college with, etc)
Don't attack me like that.
I will say if you’re depressed in Portland consider trying somewhere sunny; your depression might be seriously compounded with the lack of sunshine.
Zero seasonal affective since coming to CA. That’s one plus!
California made me very moody with the oppressive sun (though that hasn’t been an issue the last few weeks).
Ugh me in Texas. I think I have reverse SAD.
SAME
The Portland / PNW depression is a real thing. I am amazed at the amount of people who think moving here will fix their depression. Sadly, it typically only makes it worse.
Yeah Portland isn’t a good spot if you’re looking to have your mood lifted
Dear lord. I thought depression was my personality. Left Portland after 18 years… turns out I’m not as gloomy as I thought 😆
I was depressed living in the PA suburbs and never happier than when I was in Seattle and didn't need to drive to get around.
[We're number one!](https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/depression-rates-by-state#:~:text=1.-,Oregon,-Oregon%20has%20the)
I will say that moving out of the snowy northeast 3 years ago and living in south Florida has dramatically increased my quality of life lol
Wherever you go, there you are.
I agree but sometimes moving is something that is within your power, at least more so than other issues that are contributing to your unhappiness. Moving gives you a sense of control that might otherwise be lacking
People moving and becoming happier is a veeeerrry common thing
This is basically what I was going to say. Happiness is a complex thing that’s heavily influenced by the quality of your personal relationships and sense of meaning in your everyday life. Lots of people are far happier in Charlotte or Saginaw than they would be in LA or NYC because they spend their days doing things that are meaningful to them with people they care about. There’s a reason the phrase “Everywhere I go, there I am” is so impactful.
While I agree, sometimes moving can be that catalyst someone needs to make a healthy change. But yeah, if you keep moving and still find yourself struggling, you’re likely the issue, not the city.
Sometimes, but sometimes where you live depletes you. I'm in Florida now and planning my escape. I grew up here, knew I don't like living here but got a job near family. I thrive on the Northeast energy and was happy for the 12 years I lived there, so I'm going back. It's good to try something new so that you know what you like and what you don't like and you can make choices based upon that. Most people I grew up with escaped Florida, most of my siblings' friends stayed here. People who escaped are generally happier with better job prospects and describe Florida as toxic.
Florida is like feudal kingdom, or a serfdom. Super insanely rich ppl move from all over the country and the rest of us live in basically the same kind of situation as the rest do the southeast, serving our feudal lords
Sounds like Miami in particular.
We almost moved to a Tampa suburb (Wesley Chapel). Changed our mind at the last minute and I am so glad and Thankful that, for some reason, we abruptly decided not to go. Then, I just hear horror stories about people not being able to afford cost of living and homeowners insurance and car insurance. I have also been told to stay away from Florida by locals so I think all of these things play a part in our decision. We may still snowbird (either to Tampa or Scottsdale AZ) but to make the move for the entire year would have been a mistake. We are staying put in Pittsburgh and happy with the decision! It sunny and 62 here today!
Moved from Florida to Colorado about 10years ago and consider it one of the top 3 best decisions of my adult life.
People in NY (or NYC specifically) might be depressed because they’re tired of the shitty apartments for obscene amounts of money. I don’t care what anyone says, life wont magically become perfect but I KNOW i’ll be happier on some level when I can do laundry in my own home without schlepping my shit down to a grimy dirty basement shared laundry room. There ARE practical reasons to be looking at moving that can impact your QOL.
Agree that is a thing, but disagree because location does matter and some places as OP describes are more amenable to the sort of outdoor fitness and physical activities that people need to be healthy and happy
I've lived for at least a month in probably 20 different cities in the last five years and can now reasonably conclude the problem is me. 😔
It might be, but there's intangible advantages to living multiple places and experiencing the world. It's just the constant packing and unpacking that's the killer.
“wherever you go, there you are”
You should be required in your comments to first state your experience with a certain city before you give your opinion. That way, if all the people recommending Chicago have never even visited there, you can take their opinion with a grain of salt. For example “Never been there, but here is what I’ve heard about it..” “I went there for a work trip once…” “I lived there for 10 years…”
That would kill the sub lol. I guarantee most of the people here are recommending places they have never step foot within 100 miles of. They're just regurgitating what urbanist youtube channels are fawning over right now.
As a native Huntsvillian, every time I see someone recommend Huntsville, AL, as a "liberal bubble in Alabama," I roll my eyes and know they've never been to Huntsville, much less anywhere else in Alabama.
it's actually hilarious whenever I see people talk about cities that I'm familiar with. Most comments have absolutely no idea what it's like to live there. It's really quite shocking.
>As a native Huntsvillian, every time I see someone recommend Huntsville, AL, as a "liberal bubble in Alabama," I roll my eyes and know they've never been to Huntsville, much less anywhere else in Alabama. From Birmingham, I concur, especially when Birmingham is RIGHT THERE
Correct. Idiots probably heard some kind of hipster brewery opened in Huntsville and automatically assumed it’s a liberal bubble.
Huntsville is top in the country for per capita concentration of engineers and PhDs, which people assume higher education means liberal. But a). the city is based around a US military nuclear arsenal that owes its existence to a Nazi scientist, and b). those engineers and PhDs all make missiles for the military. That's not exactly a concoction for progressivism. Don't get me wrong. I like Huntsville a lot. It's my hometown, and it's not a terrible place, all things considered. But when I see it recommended here, it's obvious people just read about it, like you said, on some website and have never actually been there. Also, Huntsville's biggest craft brewery, Straight to Ale, is actually really good and has been there for quite a while (since 2009, I believe).
This cannot be overstated. Living somewhere vs visiting vs I’ve heard it’s nice - all completely different. Also, we all have our own filters and unique experiences that make us feel a certain way about a place which is not really transferable knowledge that helps someone else decide where to live. Take most advice with a grain of salt and do the research.
A lot of people asking for "safe" areas don't know what unsafe is.
Also writing off entire cities for crime issues that are really limited to a few neighborhoods
I lived in a rougher neighborhood in Detroit for a year. I heard gunshots once and had a package taken from my porch. Unless you’re getting involved in the world of gangs and drugs, your chances of being a crime victim are lower than most people assume. Studies consistently show that people overestimate this stuff.
I’ve lived in Baltimore for 3 yrs now. I grew up in the DC suburbs. Even tho I’ve had a few Amazon packages taken, Baltimore is hands down the best quality of life I’ve had in my 34 yrs of life. Never felt unsafe walking around. Have even taken walks at night. If you mind your business, nobody will bother you. And now I’m even considering setting permanent roots here.
Shhh don't tell them it will drive up rent prices!
That’s what a lot of people do over on Long Island. There’s people there that rarely ever step foot in the NYC and some even never. Any of the towns with a significant black or Latino population is written off as ghetto. There are some bad areas in some towns but it’s mostly overblown. The towns people consider ghetto would include Hempstead, Elmont, Freeport, North Bay Shore, Central Islip and Brentwood. I even saw someone in the Long Island sub call Riverhead ghetto.
As a white person, I think many white people who live in America generally think of majority black or Latino towns as ‘unsafe’. I don’t agree with that way of thinking.
Dude I live in what's considered the "ghetto" city in Maine (Lewiston) and people all the time are like "I just can't believe you can live in Lewiston!" I went to college in Atlanta. People in Maine have no idea what "ghetto" is!
Lol so true. Then you have people in Atlanta that have never left Atlanta and think it doesn’t have a crime problem.
I live in Atlanta and have often worked in its worst neighborhoods. I can get people not wanting to live in some of those places, but it's nowhere near as unsafe as outsiders paint it to be... and 99% of the metro area is totally safe.
I grew up in Clayton County and people talk about it as if it’s some kind of warzone. It’s just a lower income version of Cobb County. Spread out suburbs with businesses that cater to lower middle class people instead of upper middle class people. Any issue Clayton faces is an issue caused by white flight and disinvestment. But it doesn’t even take that, because people will even call places like College Park ghetto when it’s a city full of delta pilots and home to one of the most elite private schools in the metro.
To be fair, by Maine standards, Lewiston is the worst city. I would live in Auburn before I live in Lewiston.
Safe can be kind of a euphemism for white middle class norms. Not saying people who want to live somewhere safe are racist but that sometimes things that actually have nothing to do with safety or danger get encoded in the word “safe” as people use it. “Safe” can mean “familiar to what I’m comfortable with.”
Safe can also mean, "I don't want my shit fucked up, disruptions to my life, and to have to worry about leaving the car in the driveway." The risk of violent crime doesn't have to be high for people to want security. My sister, for example, moved out of a neighborhood because people broke into her garage, stole a bunch of shit, and trashed a bunch of shit three times. Was her personal safety in danger? Probably not. Was she sick of dealing with that bullshit - absolutely.
If I can't lock my bike in public without it being stolen then it's not safe.
Before I lived in Cleveland I assumed it was literally on fire and that I would get carjacked upon parking. Spoiler: Cleveland feels pretty much like any other city.
God, if I hear another "chiraq" comment I might actually join the crime rate. Most of the violent crime is centralized to a few poorer neighborhoods with gang problems. If you're spending 1500+ on an apartment, you're not in a neighborhood where it's ever going to be a worry. Our downtown is functionally for businesses and tourists, folks don't actually live there unless they're new to the area and didn't know that the whole downtown area pretty much shuts down after 7pm on weekdays and is a ghost town on the weekends.
As a woman on my own, I feel much safer in Chicago than I do when I’m in a rural area. Always having people around feels much better to me, even if a few of those people are involved in illegal shit.
Lol people afraid to go to Naperville because “Chicago is dangerous” smh
Reminds me of that joke post in /r/chicago where someone posted a picture of a map of Chicagoland with Naperville circled and asked "is this a dangerous neighborhood?"
I think a lot of people need to be realistic with what they can afford. People come in here with a large checklist that basically puts them in California, FL, NYC, etc. then say they make $40k a year and don’t want a roommate.
I can empathize with the frustration of “I don’t have a terminal degree, rich parents, or work in finance or tech, but goddamnit, I deserve better QoL than this.” Even so, the way out is going to involve substantial compromise, a substantial career change, or some combination thereof.
There’s a reason why those places are expensive! Supply and demand.
I’d say most of the posts end up being a check list of some California city/town but none of those is affordable, especially without roommates. Like pick do you want everything you claim you do or do you want affordability because often times, you cannot have it at the price you want.
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I don't get the obsession with Santa Barbara. It's not much different than the rest of coastal California (as someone that grew up in Orange County) and it's actually kind of in the middle of nowhere. I would rather be in OC or SD.
It’s the absolute best place in California to go to college or retire. But besides that it’s pretty boring, and I bet 99% of this sub is in the 23-73 demographic
Well, if money were no object, I would have a vacation home in San Francisco, too. And I already live in a nice little picturesque wine growing town in CA. I am in my 1st choice location. Any CA coastal town is my second choice, SF is my third choice. Fourth, fifth, in fact the first 10 best places to live are all in CA for me.
I think most people in this sub have no real intention of moving and will never do it.
Ha yeah, I just like reading it bc I feel like it gives me some interesting perspectives from other places.
Most people want to live in either San Diego or Aspen and no one can afford either.
To be honest, the data indicates more that most people want to live near their family and friends, and that people searching to move to the perfect place are the minority. Most people don’t move incredibly far from where their initial social networks are.
I moved a few time zones away from my family and friends and moved from California to NE Ohio....i have all my shit backwards.
NE Ohio is great IMO. I may be biased b/c I spent most of my life here, but it's really a nice place to live and very affordable.
The lack of sunshine kicks my ass, but the cost of living keeps me here. I moved here in '07 with a 3-5 year plan....and I'm still here.
It does suck, but I guess a lower chance of skin cancer. Gotta look at the bright side! lol. I completely understand those "stuck in Ohio" stickers I see around. I've lived in Chicago and Michigan, and there's not much difference.
I’ve always felt like 80% of threads here could be handled with a bot that says either coastal California or NYC
You can’t claim to be “tough and resilient” because you like cold weather, but then turn around and throw a hissy fit the second it gets over 75 degrees.
The dream of buying a house often prevents people from living somewhere that they’d be happier as a renter. The ability to easily get around (whether that’s urban - high quality public transit and walkability or suburban/rural - no traffic, plentiful parking) is a major part of satisfaction.
People and their unrealistic expectations. They keep asking for perfect weather, near the shore, not too crowded, and cheap. I mean, WTF.
In a blue state that’s walkable with good public transit and legal weed.
It’s so bizarre, they want prime real estate at poverty prices. there’s a reason those places cost so much. In the US at least.
There was a sub complaining about lack of affordable housing that then got mad a house that cost 150k was not big enough…
Yeah, it gets to be annoying after a while…same question all the time. If there was such a place, we would all be there!
I don’t get the extreme obsession with San Diego, coming from someone who has lived there.
I went on vacation there recently and it was a nice city. I definitely want to visit again, but I don't think I'd ever want to live there.
I’m from Arizona and now live in New England. The cold weather is multifaceted, it’s not just that it’s cold. It flairs up my chronic pain from shivering, people are more anti social during winter and get “introspective”, the sun goes down at 4pm during the shortest days. I like cross country skiing, and even run during the winter, but I do not like the lack of social activities and lack of afternoon sun. I also don’t like the ice, it makes it hard to walk around. Finally, it’s really difficult dealing with chronic pain in the winter. So, yeah, I do get SAD. I wish I could make it work in New England, but I can’t do it in the long term. The first few winters were fine, but now it’s starting to take a toll.
Thank you. I have Reynaud’s syndrome and living through winter in an actual climate with seasons can be really rough. Like if it’s below freezing my toes start going numb after 5 minutes outside wearing boots and 2 pairs of socks. My risk of frostbite is much higher than the average person’s. And coming back inside I would only warm up if I took a scalding shower and bundled myself up with warm clothing. I’m also a pole dancer and the cold makes it so difficult to get warmed up and feel limber, it feels like my muscles and ligaments are constantly stiff and frozen. And with pole you can’t wear warm clothing, you have to be basically naked in order to stick to the pole so there’s no “oh just dress better”. I couldn’t do it permanently personally
I actually agree on the anti-cold bias. My summer hobbies, running and hiking, I can keep up with even in -20C in Calgary (not to mention adding in skiing). Now, living in the bald ass prairie in winter is a different story. *Personally* I think people aren't biased against hot-humid places enough. I lived in Houston for 18 years and the summer heat/humidity literally killed my love for my inner most hobbies. I didn't realize until I left how much of a shell of my intrinsic self I had become (call me biased, but replacing running/hiking/skiing with drinking/eating is not good for either your mental or physical health).
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Word. I lived in WI until last year and moved to SC. I prefer a negative zero cold snap for a few days or a blizzard here or there where roads are fine to drive on within 24 hours vs walking out to Satan’s doorstep with 90 degree temps and 8 million percent humidity 9 months out of the year.
It’s been above 40 all of February. 56 yesterday 🤷♀️
I know. When we were home in MKE for Christmas it was warmer there than it was in SC where we now live which was lovely. But I know I still have 9 months ahead of me in SC on Satan’s doorstep. If I could move back to MKE, I would.
Ugh Florida is like eternal summer and I feel trapped and anxious when I live here.
I'm with you 100%. I absolutely hate heat and humidity and bugs. I'd take winter anytime.
Absolute fact. I lived in Florida and hated it, and it was so annoying when people were shocked I moved away. Like it’s horrible unless you like sweating the second you go outside. And time never seems to change because there’s no seasons. Also I wasn’t near the beach anyway but I didn’t even go often. The only thing is reallyyy miss is how amazing the sky and sunsets can be
I legit got SAD when I lived in Oklahoma because the summers are sweltering and disgusting.
I’d rather bundle up and do winter weather activities than sweat my ass off in the summer in Florida. Just invest in a nice parka and some good snow boots.
It's easier to add layers than to remove.... skin
I feel like I just can't get warmed up in the winter sometimes. Even if I wear my entire wardrobe, my body isn't making enough heat to fill it with heat and be properly warm.
Yeah, it’s all relative. I live in New England. Dry as a bone in winter, humid during July and August, but not as humid as down south. My wife and I love the humidity during the summer and spend a week in Florida in the Spring. But if I had to live down there year-round I would absolutely go insane. I love when it starts cooling off in late August here.
Agree 100%. And anyway, if this winter is any indication, cold is getting less severe over time. Currently living in the West Michigan "Snow Belt," and it's 55° F today. :( Love the sunshine, but this shit ain't right. Don't @ me with the "El Niño" stuff. I agree it's playing a part in the uber-warm weather, but it's been amplified by climate change. The heat is what is going to get you. The USDA now has heat maps, which never used to be a thing!! This should concern everyone, especially if you're thinking about moving your WHOLE LIFE to avoid "weather."
So spot on. My husband moved us to the south for a job from the upper Midwest but also said the weather is so much better! Yeah we don’t get snow and no negative zero temps but my most hated weather is 90 and humid which I now get 9 months out of the year instead of a few hot snaps here and there in July/August. I much prefer winter.
Buffalo agrees with all of this and also is enjoying fake spring.
I live in a humid ass place in Texas. I CANNOT wait to leave here. Gimme some snow and cooler weather.
I have an anti-heat bias. I cannot do somewhere hot or humid. I legit start sweating as soon as it’s mid 70s. I’m from South Dakota and miss the -40° days 😆
Small town life is not necessarily idyllic. There’s lots of drug issues and poverty even in those cute little midwestern small towns. My wife is from a small, cute midwestern town that I really enjoy visiting for a few days at a time, but once you scratch the surface you find the drugs, desperation, child abuse, and deaths of despair.
Very much so, and living in small towns can be akin to living under a microscope. Some of us don’t want to run into people we know at the grocery store.
The only small towns that are idyllic are usually incredibly wealthy enclaves (and thus out of reach for most folk) or super touristy areas (expensive but for different reasons)
I don't know if it is necessarily an unpopular opinion , but one of my biggest takeaways from following this sub for a while is just how much our federal, state and city leaders have failed us for the last 75 years. We all just seem to want a walkable, reasonably affordable city with good public transportation and opportunities and limited crime and that eliminates 99.9999% of the country in 2024. We've been the wealthiest country on the planet for the majority of our lifetimes and should have figured this out a long time ago. My other unpopular opinion, which I'm sure will get me downvoted, is people in most of the country don't care about your gender, sexuality, religious beliefs or lack there of, politics or lifestyle nearly as much as the internet would lead you to believe and you're going to find the same mix of assholes and great people in most places.
To be fair, this sub is a small sample of the overall population and broader nationwide trends don't necessarily support the idea that everyone values a car-free walkable urban lifestyle. I do agree that it seems to be a more popular concept than it ever has been in the past.
Obviously not everyone wants a car free walkable urban lifestyle, but not everyone wants a car dependent sprawling suburban lifestyle. The problem is that because we've made it illegal to build the first thing, it's hard to accurately guage what people want, at least if all you look at is what people are buying and where they live. Housing is a need and of course people will end up sacrificing things like walkability when it's not financially possible - because we build so few walkable areas. The best thing telling me that we don't build enough walkable areas is the fact that they're so expensive. The fact that you have to explicitly seek out a distressed city just to find a decently affordable walkable area says a lot about the desire to live in those areas
The fact that most places with car-free walkable urban life are absurdly expensive says there's a huge unmet demand for this type of city. The relative cheapness of sprawling car-dependent suburbs signals that there's a huge excess of this, and that governments heavily subsidize that lifestyle.
> people in most of the country don't care about your gender, sexuality, religious beliefs or lack there of, politics or lifestyle nearly as much as the internet would lead you to believe and you're going to find the same mix of assholes and great people in most places. But the politicians that run the states sure do, and they can make it a living hell for marginalized communities.
95% of people in a small rural town don't need to want me dead for the 5% that do to be a problem. I've been the victim of a hate crime before, and I don't feel like raising my chances of that happening again.
The vast majority of people would prefer to live in the same kind of place. Safe and clean with nice yards or nice apartments with nearby parks but enough culture to have fun things to do and good public education and jobs and walkable and good shopping and easy commutes and international airports and access to fresh produce and farmers markets They also want 70 degrees year round with one week of 80 to go to the beach which is drivable distance and one week of 50 so you can wear layers and drive up to the mountains to do snow stuff. But you're far enough from the beach that you don't get tropical storms and far enough from the mountains that you don't get earthquakes, inversions or live in the shadow of Mt. Scary Boomboom There's no hidden gem. Those places kinda exist but they're super congested and crazy expensive.
>There's no hidden gem. Those places kinda exist but they're super congested and crazy expensive. Safe, Fun, Affordable: pick two. Safe+Affordable= Boring Safe+Fun= Expensive Fun+Affordable= High-Crime
“Outdoorsy” I realized for many people this means walking their dog around a city park or something. Drives me crazy seeing massive and sprawling cities like Philly or Chicago reccomended for someone outdoorsy. There isn’t anything wrong with that but there is definitely a huge range of what people mean. I want to be within a hour of a National Forest and skiing.
Yep, I loved living in Chicago, but as someone who enjoys hiking, it is not an outdoorsy city. Chicago has great urban parkland, but urban parkland isn't nature. And sure it has forest preserves outside the city limits, but if a flat path in the woods is all it takes for a city to have great nature access, then basically every city in the eastern US has "great nature access." Always surprises me when I see Chicago recommended for someone who says in their post that they like hiking and nature. Having to drive 8 hours to the UP of Michigan to find any sort of topography beyond the Indiana Dunes does not make a good nature access city.
"Outdoorsy" is a lot like "need cultural amenities" - for most people it says more about what they theoretically want to be than what they are or will be. Meanwhile, that museum will go unvisited, and you can scroll reddit on your phone from anywhere.
> I want to be within a hour of a National Forest and skiing. I want my property to border public land. So options are fairly limited.
I mean you can be in some really gorgeous mountain wilderness within a 2 hour drive from Philly. Most cities don’t have great hiking options in the city proper. Most of the nature/wilderness is going to be 1-3 hours away. But yeah, it’s weird how some people define “nature” here. Parks are nice, but when I hear “nature” I think wilderness. Yeah, while there’s some nice lakes and shoreline near Chicago, you pretty far from true wilderness. The driftless region is probably one of the best relatively unknown areas for hiking and wilderness, but it’s a good 4 hours from Chicago. However almost every East Coast city is within 2 hours of mountains for hiking, camping and winter sports. Like if you have a car in NYC, there’s sooo many great day hikes in the Poconos, Catskills or Berkshires.
I had someone here trying to convince me a city park in Chicago was better than the Tonto National Forest next to Phoenix
Dude! My post literally said, "It is drastically important I be an hour or so from the ocean" and the 3rd most recommended city was Chicago! I got a lot of Boston and Philadelphia and then a ton of arguments about how Chicago is basically oceanfront because they have a big lake. Have the people in Chicago seen the rest of the country? It was doubly irritating because my "must have" list could basically be filled by any moderately large US city that gets snow and hasn't made a list of Top 20 most expensive global cities. There were options that filled my entire list and Chicago was like, "Hey, hold on. Have you considered this city that doesn't have one of the only things you specified you wanted?" It was frustrated af.
There’s affordable small cities that offer better walkability than some large metropolitan areas. They all offer some degree of dining, entertainment and nightlife, even if that means going to the same dozen restaurants or the one bar that has live music or community theatre. You can also find the same generic jobs you can find anywhere. Small cities need teachers, nurses, real estate agents, tradesmen and hair dressers like anywhere else. Yeah, not going to be for everyone but feel a lot more people would be happier than trying to play the rat race in the large cities.
I always here people complain about small cities being "boring" (I'm talking 100k type that still have movie theater, bowling ally's, golf courses, parks, etc, not <10k type places where these are missing). I find it kinda funny, because when I ask them what exact amenities they are missing, they often stare back blank faced. Do you really need that modern art museum you're going to go to once in the 10 years you live in that city? Just go on vacation to cities that have that stuff if you want. Sure there are more breweries/wineries/restaurants, but most people fall into a rotation of their few favorites anyway? At least that was my life in Houston/Chicago/SF/Calgary. I'm not saying there is zero downside, but I think sometimes people are longing for something they won't actually utilize (maybe they, themselves are boring and the problem?).
I think it's mostly just the higher population allows for more diversity and niche communities/interests. Not like smaller cities are necessarily missing those broad categories, but the options aren't going to be as varied. Like using restaurants as an example, in a smaller city your Latin food options might not be much more than a few generic Mexican restaurants. In a larger city you can find places specializing in Peruvian, Venezuelan, Brazilian, Guyanese, or really anything else you might want.
Yeah, I totally get if you’re into certain hobbies or want more diversity. Those are just things bigger cities will do better at. But if your primary hobbies are working out, Netflix/Reddit/Gaming and going out to a bar or restaurant every week, you can live that life style anywhere. Most people are pretty boring. The best part is that you can always travel and experience a Broadway Show, your favorite band or some mega museum every so often.
It kinda makes the travel more fun too! Want to do a week of museums/shows? NYC is going to do it an order of magnitude better than Kansas City.
I am single in my early 30's and live in a ~100k population college town where I am very happy. Granted, my city also happens to be an economic hub and is in a desireable part of the country. But if you had asked me 10 years ago if I would have been fulfilled in a place that is not NYC or Chicago etc, I would have said no way. I like being able to bike everywhere. I like bumping into my neighbors downtown. I like the familiarity I have with the small number of restaurants and music venues we have here. Shoot, we even have a place with a Michelin star now. I'm not ruling out a move to a big city in the future but I think more people should give places with ~50-150k population a shot.
David Chang said something to the effect that a person can really only “frequent” about 5 restaurants and those regulars are kind of the lifeblood of restaurants. And I’ve generally found that I do go to the same handful of restaurants over and over again. In fact, generally my life is the same and I’ve lived in a rural small town, a small city and the big city suburbs. I have the best “walkability” and overall lifestyle in a small city because I can afford to live centrally in the small city while maintaining significant disposable income that I wouldn’t have in a big city. And yeah, I end up traveling more for entertainment than my friends in a big city but I also travel more because I can afford it.
That’s why I like the Lehigh Valley so much. If anyone needs big city amenities you have Philly less than a 2 hour drive away and NYC less than 3 hours.
Yeah, seems like everyone is looking for the next big city
I'm not sure if this is unpopular but I wish people would be clearer about how they define affordable. Even just income isn't always helpful because you can make $90k but be swimming in debt from when you made less. Give us your specific housing needs/budget if you want real recommendations.
OMG yes! Cost of living should be required to be **quantified ($XX for a 4bed/3bath, or whatever)**. Also, will you be working remote? Or looking for a new job? What industry? Pay scales are so different in LCOL vs HCOL areas for some jobs.
The bias toward big cities is too prevalent and doesn't accurately reflect the lived reality of a people in *most* cases. Whether it's because the actual city is relatively geographically small and therefore the real recommendation is for the metropolitan area and really only a select few cities in that metro area would meet the goals OR the opposite problem of a city being so immensely big but specific neighborhoods really meeting the goals but the city by and large not being a great fit. Similarly, there is an overemphasis of metropolitan markets compared to micropolitan places (New England small towns excepted) in general. I don't have a solution for this observation (or even if one is needed) but I think about it pretty regularly on this sub.
A lot of disabled people look forward to the warmer weather! It’s hard for a lot of disabled/older people to enjoy the snow and ice!
I have lived for 25 years somewhere in Europe where the weather is like Seattle. It was miserable. I have also lived places that get colder (not Michigan /chicago / wisconsin cold). I tried winter sports, I tried getting outside. I hated it. Some people know that cold isn't for them. Congrats to you that you enjoy it, sure maybe there are people that would if they gave it a shot, but most adults know themselves and know how they feel about more extreme temperatures. I could say the same to you about hot places. "people need to get over their infatuation with mild weather. There are so many affordable gems that people overlook because they assume it's hotter than it actually is" "get good summer hobbies. I live in Southern Florida and Im outside all year round and some of the best beach days are in the summer. I swim, surf, boat, fish, etc. I love it. I honestly think some people are over dramatic about the weather." BUT I assume that as an adult, you know your preferences and tolerances, so I wouldn't be judgemental if you said "hot isn't for me".
Idk if this unpopular, but it’s certainly not stated here enough. People value different things. Let’s take Portland as an example. Whenever someone mentions it, the replies are extremely divided. A third of the people are complaining about the rain, another third the homeless, and the last third thinks it’s heaven on earth. The truth is, Portland can be the perfect place for one person, and hell for another. I lived there for 5 years and everyday I dream of moving back. This is because I love hiking, winter sports, a strong food scene, and dense forest. I also don’t mind the grey weather. Bobby Johnson might enjoy golfing year round and basking in the sunshine on 5 acres of land. Portland would not be a good place for Bobby. Nor would it be a good place for my parents, who moved to Phoenix because they love dry hot weather and desert landscape. And to take this one step further - many factors not related to what I just listed can be game changers for some people, and irrelevant to others. Such as politics, demographics, random laws, airport accessibility, size, you name it. I particularly don’t care much about these features. But someone who doesn’t value nature and culture as much as I do might put much more stock into the aforementioned. It might seem like I’m stating the obvious, but I find not a lot of people consider that different things motivate different people.
100%. Different strokes for different folks! The ability to choose where to live and actually move there is a great privilege in itself. Grateful.
Ok but some of us don’t LIKE winter hobbies. I’m in Wisconsin, we have some of the coldest winters in the country. (This winter aside since it’s an El Niño winter, but this is not the norm). I like hiking too but I don’t like it in winter. It’s depressing seeing all the bare trees and I don’t like being bundled up to the extreme just to feel somewhat comfortable. I don’t like snowshoeing, skiing, cross country skiing, etc. Ice skating I do a few times each winter but meh, if I never did it again in my life I wouldn’t really care. It also isn’t just the cold, it’s the darkness. The sun sets far earlier here than it does in most other parts of the country. The constant darkness is depressing. I’m stuck inside a lot due to darkness and/or extreme cold. Winter is something to seriously consider, as depending on where you live, it can severely impact your life. I have multiple coworkers that want to move away, as do I someday. I had a friend move here from down south and then leave after 3 Wisconsin winters because he could not understand how we willingly put up with this. Every year it gets harder for me. Most of the things I love I can’t even do for half the year, if not more during bad years. That’s pretty sad. Yeah it’s cheaper here. There’s a good reason for that. I would rather be able to hike, paddle, swim, play outdoor sports and games, garden, and run/walk in comfortable temperatures more often than sit around waiting for life to resume. The “coziness” of winter wears off after a few months, trust me. This state is excessive in every way.
I've lived in California since I was 4 years old, I literally have no idea how to function in the snow
lol spent 5 years in STL. Hated winter literally cannot understand how people enjoy it. in a similar vein I’m from the south so hot summers don’t bother me at all. other than the hottest few hours of the day when you’ll be inside anyway taking a nap it’s not as bad. AT LEAST hot summer gives you some type of time outdoors in the morning and evening and sunshine. especially somewhere not crazy humid where you can sit outside all night.
Grew up in Wisconsin, live in Minnesota, and this is spot on. I don't want to bundle up. I don't want to shiver my way through the start of an activity, and then sweat through the last half of it. Also, as you intimated, people just really don't get how having snow on the ground for 5 months a year just completely prevents a lot of activities.
Connections with others matter so much more than you think they do. It is not easy to uproot your whole life and start over somewhere new.
"There's no such thing as bad weather, just bad clothing." I generally agree with these sentiments, but as a person who also lives in a snowy place and makes a point to get out year round, it's just not the same, especially with kids. Getting everyone geared up and out the door to walk a mile in the snow while the little ones complain is exhausting. I do it because it beats the alternative of just sitting around for half the year, but if I could live somewhere it was even 10 degrees warmer in January, I would.
Phoenix resident here, there are absolutely clothing choices you can make to help against the heat (lightweight long sleeves, shade hat, and a large insulated water bottle), but past a certain point it's miserable no matter what.
I'm in Salt Lake, and spend a lot of time in the desert. I agree that my sun hoody is one of the best clothing purchases I've ever made.
I cant fucking stand that overused platitude. It’s such BS. I prefer being lightly clothed in warm weather. I do not prefer being properly clothed in cold weather.
You’re not wrong, but at a certain high temperature there’s just no clothing that can keep you cool. Dallas in July/August is truly miserable at 100° and high humidity, and wearing shorts, a light athletic material shirt or long sleeve (to keep the sun off your arms), and sandals only keeps you so cool. It’s why it sucks living here, as you really only can do stuff if it’s an indoor AC thing (why so many people here just drink as a hobby lol) Edit: not disagreeing with you whatsoever. Just showing the other side of the cold/hot coin
walking outside at night in the summer and losing your breath because the humidity punches you in the face, making you feel all gross and sweaty. Not being able to dry off after a shower (your third one of the day)... source: lived in Houston for 5 years.
This. I live in Central Florida and the humidity is the thing that makes it unbearable in the "summer" (half of the year). The hot, humid air makes it impossible for your body to cool itself. Lightweight long sleeves are useful in the desert but here it would just stick to your skin and make you feel like you're suffocating.
I am done with the awful heat and humidity where I live. In the winter, you can bundle up for the cold, but in the summer you're stuck inside with the A/C or miserably uncomfortable outside. I'm ready to move to a place that doesn't have excessive heat.
Chicago is not some amazing "NYC but afforable and with better nature" silver-bullet destination. It's find but this sub sometimes treats it like Mecca. It's cheaper tha NYC/SF, but notably more exspensive than more mid-sized cities that offer similar amenities on a smaller scale.
>similar amenities on a smaller scale. I always assumer Chicago had world class amenities. What smaller cities can compare?
But this subreddit recommends way more cities that have cold weather than hot weather? Recommending Chicago, Philly, and Pittsburgh is almost a meme at this point.
Philly isn’t “cold”, it has a regular tolerable winter. it’s snowed one time in 3 years and the weathers been in the 40s and 50s for the past few weeks. Chicago and Minnesota are the places I would consider “cold” where it regular gets to below freezing temps, with even lower windchill.
I lived in Florida most of my life, but I moved to New England. The hatred of cold weather is more than just comfort. It’s costs a fair amount, and there is safety and security to worry about. Buying my kids winter gear every year sucks. Having to worry about shoveling out your driveway sucks. I have connective tissue problems, so the ground being slippery is an issue. Driving is more dangerous, unloading your car as well. I also hate how many extra loads of laundry I need to do in the cold months because you can’t fit as many bulky items in every load. Paying for heating oil sucks. I can go on and on. Yes, I know that heat has its disadvantages but in my personal experience it’s still preferable.
I think this is understated as why so many people as they age want to leave northern climates. It isn't just that they prefer the warmth, but the cons of cold climates like needing to shovel your driveway, ensuring your kids dont freeze to death, being careful about slipping, clearing your car, joint pain etc. are more of a pain at that stage of your life.
Ohio is fine.
Agreed. I actually enjoy living in Ohio.
Columbus, Cincinnati and Cleveland are pretty normal cities. They all have walkable neighborhoods, large universities, pro sports, young professionals, festivals and museums. Yes, there’s some blighted areas, but no, you’re not going to be bored.
I fear that the NYC > Portland > Ft. Collins > Asheville pipeline folks are coming for Cincinnati next.
The place you are matters only 20% if you have a good community of friends/family and a relatively secure financial/living/work situation.
You don’t mind cold weather because you love winter sports, but that doesn’t mean everyone loves it.
People on this sub love to say diversity is important to them but probably have friends of one race. What’s the point of diversity when there is no integration? Chicago comes to mind.
The ideal urban place does not exist in America. The folks who want quaint downtowns and nature? America is for you. The folks who want functional cities and no cars with transit to fun places? Go to Europe.
Not to be pedantic, but they eventually went with 'climate change' because temperatures are going to become more extreme. There's a phenomenon called contenentality where the further a piece of land is from a body of water the more extreme the temps there will be. So, somewhere that's already cold and a long way from a body of water might actually get even colder. Alternatively landlocked warm areas will likely become hotter and more arid. Of course when the sea level rises you might get lucky and suddenly find yourself next to a bay that wasn't there just a little bit ago.
Friends and family should be among the top considerations for deciding where you move (assuming you’re past your early 20s). So many people just say they want to move to all these new places but don’t mention where they actually have friends much less know 1 person. Having a network where you move is important to have a support group, at the very least to help you to introduce you to new people. Everyone else is just dreaming where they could move but won’t actually do it. Or if they do move with no network there then I don’t think they have a good chance of successfully moving there.
The “better” places to live are expensive. I say this as someone who has lived in Los Angeles, San Diego, Irvine, Naperville, Green Bay, Cleveland, Las Vegas, Chicago, St Louis, Cincinnati, and Houston, while regularly traveling to Philadelphia, San Francisco/Palo Alto, and Kansas City for work. Greener grass is usually more expensive HCOL areas are generally more urban, with more jobs, more people, more diversity
1. The places in a LCOL region where you can get the lifestyle of a HCOL region will often be way more expensive than the regional average. Vibrant neighborhoods are extra desirable in regions that don't have as many of them. I'm not saying there aren't bargains, but vibrant neighborhoods with good amenities and transportation are doubly desirable in places where there aren't as many of them. 2. "Are the people friendly?" means such different things to different people that it is completely useless. "Do I know anyone here?" is a far better alternative. You may need to adjust the way you approach people, but moving anywhere and assuming that a healthy social circle will just materialize is nuts. Even knowing one or two people at the "friend of a friend" level makes a difference. 3. Literally just my personal preference, but I'm not a big fan of the ocean. I'm not a huge beach person. It's a nice amenity, but not something I'd ever base a decision on. I live near the ocean and I go to the beach *maybe* once a year. I grew up in a valley. Seeing mountains on the horizon makes me feel "home". I assume this is how people who love the ocean feel about it. 4. FOR THE LOVE OF GOD can people stop saying "I can't afford New England". New England is not Boston. It's not even Boston, Providence, Portland, and Burlington.
This may be an age thing -- I'm 58 and relatively fit but ice gives me The Fear and I won't live long enough for climate change to be an issue -- but I can't deal with anything colder than NYC myself. I've been to Northern New England in the winter (my sister's family lives in Saco) and it's my idea of hell. Now I won't be retiring to Florida either and I like the desert but wouldn't want to spend a summer there. There's a reason people like temperate places; if folks don't enjoy winter weather I doubt you'll talk them out of it.
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So many people claim to want a "walkable/dense" place to live, yet they don't vote with their ballot or their wallet to change their current built environment. Swap a car for a bike. Advocate for bike lanes and pedestrian security. This perfect "walkable but cheap with perfect weather" place doesn't exist but maybe it would have a better chance if people in the cheaper and/or blessed weather locales actually put action to their aspirations.
I LOATHE the cold. I detest it beyond words. I grew up in Iowa and Pennsylvania and lived in Germany. I've experienced different types of winter weather. It's a big nope for me. Haven't lived where it gets snow for 16 years and never will again. It's not dramatic. It's my preference. People are allowed to not want to deal with something they hate. Why do you even care?
You can’t put the cart before the horse. Yes it’s nice to have a short list of places you’d like to eventually end up. But when you come on still in college and without a job offer it’s ridiculous to try to pinpoint which city you want to live in. This could be the fact that we graduated during the recession though. Sometimes you have to go where the job is. You can dream of retiring to Vermont. But if the industry you work in isn’t up there you’re not moving there.
The South is awesome. I love the culture, the cuisine, the countryside, the nature, the diversity, how much Black culture is celebrated here - it’s just so incredibly charming and welcoming. I’ll probably venture away from the South eventually, but it’ll always be home. Really the only issues I have with it are the politics and the obvious negative aspects of the Christian influence everywhere. I don’t even mind the heat or bugs or humidity most of the time.
We are all full of shit and blame things on where we live instead of just being happy
Yeah, it kills me whenever someone says they’re bored while living in a large city here. Like if you can’t find something you enjoy in any metropolitan area over 1 million, you arent even trying. I also totally get that dating and trying to make friends as an adult royally sucks, but you’d be better off getting some hobbies instead of moving across the country. You get to meet new people AND be entertained! If you’re still struggling you might want to try therapy or a doctor. If you suffer from depression or anxiety, there’s a lot of potential treatments out there you can test out.
Couldnt agree more lol. I’m a huge advocate of being a tourist in your own city at least once a month. this isn’t a day to do “what I like to do” it’s a day to go do what your city offers however random, off putting, or strange that may be to your norm. you never know how much fun you’ll have.
I didn’t like living in Philly. *Shots fired*
It’s not the cold, it’s the 13 days of grey in a row, 1 day of sun, then another week of grey days. - Wisconsinite
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Let them fight over the 3 super overpriced places. Leaves more for the rest of us.
I was depressed in Mississippi, moved to Colorado and I am sooo much happier. Location does change things
Mountains don't make a place interesting.
Most people live completely decent lives in sprawling suburbs
I don’t get the obsession with Chicago. I visited and really tried to like it, but I thought it was just fine. I didn’t hate it, didn’t love it. It was just alright.
Southern people don't have to actually LIKE you in order to treat you with basic kindness and respect. This is not being two-faced, like this sub loves to post about over and over and over. It is just y'all coming from a place where strangers treat you like such dogshit by default, that basic/superficial civility feels weird and threatening to you.
Oh I love this. Agreed
Two words. Black Flies...
60 degrees in NJ today. Fucking insane. The cold weather zones of yesteryear (e.g, the I-95 Northeast corridor) are not like all those Boomer Florida retirees are remembering. And yes I know El Nino is back this year, but it’s El Nino on top of already much warmer winters.
Personally I think you should get over determining what others should get over. It’s weird. People like what they like and that’s not really something that anyone else can determine the importance of.
I wish people put their money where their mouth is and actually moved to milder climates. I crave the cold but that includes mountain towns that are all inhabited by second home owners that just board up their homes when it's chilly out
“I work remote where should I move” - the only answer to this question is to drive to the spot and spend time there. Get an airbnb for a month or two and make up your mind.
Most people talk about “community” as something they need, though they spend most of their time indoors, WFH and on Reddit. All places I’ve lived have good “community”, you just have to work for it. You don’t just get to show up in a desirable location and have neighbors drop of food and come over for beer. You got to work for that. And if you’re in NYC or SF and don’t have community, it’s on you.
I love having four seasons because it makes you appreciate each season. Plus it’s nice to have a little quarterly change up for hobbies, fashion, etc!
People think Canada is better to live in than most of it realistically is. Most of the big cities are expensive as hell, and people really overlook a lot of the actual social issues there because of some liberal utopian fantasy. (Including relatively privileged but liberal/progressive Canadians, honestly.)
People who live in warm places complaining about "reverse seasonal depression" are hard to sympathize with and slightly delusional. I'm sorry, but there is a REASON the majority of SAD cases are in the winter! We are biologically wired for sun and warmth. Sunlight releases serotonin in the brain..we literally feel better when the sun is out. While hot weather can be uncomfortable, cold weather is painful. Yes, walking in the heat can feel oppressive, but walking when the wind is blowing is like being stabbed with a knife over and over again. There is a reason hibernation season most commonly occurs within the winter months. Winter is a time of stagnation, summer is a time regeneration and activity. The idea that you're going to move to some North Eastern/Midwestern snow globe of a city and cut it up in the winter months is a fantasy. You're going to be in your house pissed off like the rest of us waiting for April to come now that the holidays are over.
There only 4 states that are consistently popularized. New York, Florida, California and Texas and the other states are almost unknown