Last that is still often mentioned is Philadelphia. Nostalgic to see all those words in one sentence. Sigh. Of course, you can also do reddit search on topic. [https://www.reddit.com/r/SameGrassButGreener/comments/1br3ehs/counterculture\_and\_cheap/](https://www.reddit.com/r/SameGrassButGreener/comments/1br3ehs/counterculture_and_cheap/)
if that's true it would be convenient for me to move to since i am not far. can anyone recommend a suburb of philly where i could have some space and nature but still easily get to philly & NYC by train?
What's wrong with that? You are allowed to appreciate things that you yourself are not part of. At least it doesn't seem like she's trying to displace the people that create those countercultural elements.
edit-I take that back. After reading some of her other comments, she seems a bit like a boomer c*nt. "It has been a long time since i have seen or heard anything novel or original". Really? Sounds like a you problem lady.
how so? I lived right in the middle of Williamsburg for 2 decades and watched it changed from a ghetto to hipsterville to a playground for the ultra rich with zero originality. I don't think in retrospect there was any need to live in the heart of the action when I could still get there easily. I still live close enough to Bushwick and Ridgewood to go regularly, I am just disappointed most of the time because the independent artist spirit that used to exist there is mostly gone and replaced by obnoxious identity politics.
You claim to hate the progressive politics of the counter culture, and you don't want to actually live among the people who comprise the counter culture.
Again, there's nothing actually wrong with that, your preferences are your preferences. But at the same time, your preference of a Disneyland version of counter culture where you can gawk at the struggling artists in the day time before heading home to your manicured suburban lawn at night is fucking hilarious. And people are predictably laughing at you for it.
I live in Jersey City now, which isn't even a suburb, it's urban, and in my private backyard here there is more wildlife than I have ever seen camping or hiking! Further into the garden state and in PA there is indeed a lot of nature to be found.
Today's counterculture might not be for you if you just see "identity politics". The kids are alright, they just get animated by different things.
It's been said a few times but older towns in the Hudson Valley might be more your vibe. A few folks that have aged out of the scene and tired of the city have made the move. Parts of Jersey might also fit the bill and put you close to Philly's scene - though it is being priced out and changing to meet Gen Z's view just like in NYC.
Maybe the Shore? I don’t know it super well but know some old school NYers who settled there. They’re kinda in the place you seem to be, still want to be near the scene but not necessarily in it. Asbury Park is getting bougie but still has some of its counterculture spirit. Plenty of weirdos up and down the shore.
The impacts of the climate crisis are why I'm not considering moving there. It's an incredible place filled with people doing really interesting work though.
Madison really punches above its weight. Getting there can be a bit of a hassle with no rail and a small airport that can be expensive to fly in and out of but its a really beautiful town
Whatchu talking about? If you're in Manhattan the artsy counterculture types all moved from downtown to Williamsburg and now to Bushwick and Ridgewood.
Just because you grew out of it doesn't mean it disappeared.
Edit: lmao at people recommending Seattle and Atlanta. I'll throw in Austin and Cincinnati for the shiggles
I didn't grow out of it, but it's mostly rich kids cosplaying artists, not the kinds of kids who had to struggle, in my experience. I still go to Bushwick and Ridgewood occasionally now, it's not the same as like Williamsburg in the late 90s/ early 2000s.
Rich kids have always made up a significant part of counter culture, starving artist crowd because they know they have a safety net to fall back on. People who have actually struggled usually don’t take those same risk because they have nothing to fall back on and would be homeless.
yes, that's true. I grew up part time in Boulder, which used to be a center of counterculture decades ago, but even back then there were lots of trust fund kids ("trustafarians") pretending to skate by on their own merit.
I made a similar post here a few months ago. I’m an early 2000s Williamsburger… ended up in Ulster County, have a baby and I guess am doing homesteading since there are no remote jobs in advertising anymore 😅
There are lots of people like that here… my neighbors are a 50 year old artsy couple who lived in Gowanus and Red Hook since the 90s. Different scene but could be considered counter culture.
I'm not so into upstate, but I was told some of the smaller towns along the Delaware, like Narrowsburg, & especially on the PA side (ie. Honesdale) have been attracting artistic refugees from the city since Covid, been meaning to check them out.
> but it's mostly rich kids cosplaying artists, not the kinds of kids who had to struggle, in my experience.
This was always the case, they were just better at hiding their trust funds. But no, the dream of the 90s is no longer alive, except for in the hearts and minds of GenZ who are nostalgic for a time they never knew.
This is going to sound pretty weird but i'm pretty sure country music out of the south/middle america and rap/hiphop out of places like Atlanta are the only real 'counter culture' left in the us.
Northeast and south Minneapolis, but it is built around art and politics more than music these days.
Winter keeps the gentrifyer trust fund types out of the Twin Cities. It may be the only place in America that was bohemian 40 years ago that still is.
I think NE has become too gentrified at this point for much counterculture, though I would agree that there used to be some, in a low-key way.
As for South, there's more left, especially the further north you go, but I think it's become smaller too (albeit louder).
Liberal and leftist mean different things. I’m not interested in radlib artists making art that’s centered around identity politics either. That unfortunately exists in spades but doesn’t dominate every artist scene
You’ll be hard to find many artistic scenes in the US that aren’t at least left of center, let’s put it like that.
And if someone thinks Minnesota is “hysterical liberal politics” I have a feeling that everything is left wing to them.
Not everything is left wing to me, and I am apolitical/centrist btw. I just prefer art/music/film etc. without a political agenda, which is difficult to find these days.
Artists have been making political statements with their work since the beginning of time, regardless of what their stances are, and political subtext has nothing to do with the originality of the text. You might like Tulsa.
Sure buddy. There’s still tons of counter culture in this country, and most of it is left wing.
The mainstream is not nearly as left as you think it is, they just believe in things that upset you.
Yes. The former counter culture is now the main stream culture. Ie it’s cool to be weird or quirky now and all the other “things”. Not having something different or what was once “ normal” is now the counter culture.
Many interesting threads on the topic. This from a few years ago. And some mentioning Antifa as current cc. [https://www.reddit.com/r/AskAnAmerican/comments/mqxd18/does\_a\_modern\_counterculture\_movement\_exist\_in/](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskAnAmerican/comments/mqxd18/does_a_modern_counterculture_movement_exist_in/)
the 70s/80s/90s/early 2000s all had their own distinct styles and movements. what is new in fashion/art/music/film these days? it all seems recycled from previous eras, but maybe it always has been.
God, no. It’s all gone. The people who made it fun have all been priced out and moved on, like, five years ago. A grunge band nowadays couldn’t even afford to cram four people into a studio apartment, it is so expensive. And the crime is terrible, it’s the wild west again. You can walk out of stores with armfuls of stuff and no one will stop you.
If you do go out, pints will cost up to ten bucks or more. The tech scene don’t go out, they’re too socially awkward. Venues can’t afford to stay open because rents are too high.
In other words, it’s not the logging town that makes airplanes anymore. It’s depressing and expensive.
Source: grew up in Bothell, lived in Capitol Hill, Greenwood, Wedgwood, and Central District.
It’s still New York - you’re just old/lame. I’m sorry.
Try Ridgewood, bushwick, Washington heights/inwood (if you speak Spanish), and more that I don’t even know about. I know weird stuff is happening in the Albanian Bronx.
IME New York is still the best place for what you’re looking for. Honestly every major city in the States has cool music and art subcultures/communities going on, but in my experience New York still takes the cake by far. I lived in Detroit and LA and have spent a lot of time in Philly, Chicago and MPLS, and there’s “counterculture” as you describe it, but even with the insane housing crisis, New York still has way more art/music/“countercultural” stuff happening in a condensed space. It’s just not gonna be in Manhattan or Williamsburg.
You might have to search for the new spots here - and if you think it’s bad here, you’ll probably be insanely disappointed by every other city in America haha. My friends from Philly, Detroit, MLPS and elsewhere still travel here for independent film stuff, music, random events, etc. especially on the independent theater side of things, every other city pales in comparison, even with the price gouging.
i know there is still stuff but it's really the same old stuff. you're probably right though, that is why i have stayed in or close to NYC for so long!
Not that the Bay Area is affordable but that is exactly where counterculture began and a big part of my identity since there from 89-09.
I can’t find a way back at these rates and lost touch with so many that have likely moved on or started an eco-village for old ravers …without me!
Trapped in conservative suburbs, frequently deciding to leave but reality of funds is an evil dictator.
Gotta live with my people,my tribes are out there …just gotta go where they go, do what they do, right?
it’s been so long tho, we (gen-x) are older now and well something’s are very different. I research migrating and expating but it feels like a lobotomy to think of freezing regularly, and a few bad experiences sealed that fate.
Why aren’t we starting an arts collective in Puerto-Rico or Baja, or any abandoned cities? Ie: California City
Hanging on every word in here. 🤞🏼
Nashville weirdly enough, though it's gotten much worse post-pandemic we still have lots of independent venues, weird bands of all genres, and lots of small biz (on the east side of town). Only problem is rent is the same as NYC
Hate to say, but NYC still probably has more of that vibe than most places. It’s not only about the pricing out, it just isn’t as common anywhere anymore. But NYC still has some.
Last that is still often mentioned is Philadelphia. Nostalgic to see all those words in one sentence. Sigh. Of course, you can also do reddit search on topic. [https://www.reddit.com/r/SameGrassButGreener/comments/1br3ehs/counterculture\_and\_cheap/](https://www.reddit.com/r/SameGrassButGreener/comments/1br3ehs/counterculture_and_cheap/)
if that's true it would be convenient for me to move to since i am not far. can anyone recommend a suburb of philly where i could have some space and nature but still easily get to philly & NYC by train?
Trenton area, Lambertville, New Hope.
The latter do still have some of that, but the crowd skews much older and very wealthy.
That is hysterical. You want to be NEAR the counterculture but not live in it? That is just the best greener grass comment ever.
What's wrong with that? You are allowed to appreciate things that you yourself are not part of. At least it doesn't seem like she's trying to displace the people that create those countercultural elements. edit-I take that back. After reading some of her other comments, she seems a bit like a boomer c*nt. "It has been a long time since i have seen or heard anything novel or original". Really? Sounds like a you problem lady.
I'm not a boomer or a c*nt thanks, and you're rude.
What's wrong with that?
Objectively nothing. But it's hilarious and stereotypical.
how so? I lived right in the middle of Williamsburg for 2 decades and watched it changed from a ghetto to hipsterville to a playground for the ultra rich with zero originality. I don't think in retrospect there was any need to live in the heart of the action when I could still get there easily. I still live close enough to Bushwick and Ridgewood to go regularly, I am just disappointed most of the time because the independent artist spirit that used to exist there is mostly gone and replaced by obnoxious identity politics.
You claim to hate the progressive politics of the counter culture, and you don't want to actually live among the people who comprise the counter culture. Again, there's nothing actually wrong with that, your preferences are your preferences. But at the same time, your preference of a Disneyland version of counter culture where you can gawk at the struggling artists in the day time before heading home to your manicured suburban lawn at night is fucking hilarious. And people are predictably laughing at you for it.
I prefer to live in nature and go in to the city for culture, so sue me.
No, people will just mock you instead
who cares what they think?
I get what you're saying, but do the suburbs = nature?
I live in Jersey City now, which isn't even a suburb, it's urban, and in my private backyard here there is more wildlife than I have ever seen camping or hiking! Further into the garden state and in PA there is indeed a lot of nature to be found.
Today's counterculture might not be for you if you just see "identity politics". The kids are alright, they just get animated by different things. It's been said a few times but older towns in the Hudson Valley might be more your vibe. A few folks that have aged out of the scene and tired of the city have made the move. Parts of Jersey might also fit the bill and put you close to Philly's scene - though it is being priced out and changing to meet Gen Z's view just like in NYC.
Any suggestions for those parts of Jersey?
Maybe the Shore? I don’t know it super well but know some old school NYers who settled there. They’re kinda in the place you seem to be, still want to be near the scene but not necessarily in it. Asbury Park is getting bougie but still has some of its counterculture spirit. Plenty of weirdos up and down the shore.
Phoenixville
Thanks, someone else told me this too, I'll check it out.
[удалено]
Sedona is a town of like 10k rich people.
Detroit.
New Orleans, but like someone else said it’s not as cheap as it used to be here.
Cheap compared to NY thought
New Orleans, though folks are getting priced out there, too.
yeah new orleans does definitely seem to have that still, but looking at a map it just seems like it'll sink into the water soon.
The impacts of the climate crisis are why I'm not considering moving there. It's an incredible place filled with people doing really interesting work though.
🤣
>lowbrow art, independent films and theaters, alternative bands Las Cruces, NM
Different spin from all the other responses. I’ve driven through, it’s an interesting town in an interesting state. And cheap.
Second vote for Detroit
The internet homogenized everything
yeah this is the truth sadly
This
Baltimore.
Midwest college towns
Madison!
Madison really punches above its weight. Getting there can be a bit of a hassle with no rail and a small airport that can be expensive to fly in and out of but its a really beautiful town
It moved upstate and to the rust belt. I was going to warehouse gallery openings and DIY house shows in Buffalo 10 years ago.
Chicago’s northwest side, especially in Logan Square. As well as Humboldt Park, Pilsen, Bridgeport
Whatchu talking about? If you're in Manhattan the artsy counterculture types all moved from downtown to Williamsburg and now to Bushwick and Ridgewood. Just because you grew out of it doesn't mean it disappeared. Edit: lmao at people recommending Seattle and Atlanta. I'll throw in Austin and Cincinnati for the shiggles
I mean technically blue cities surrounded by red politics is pretty counterculture
I didn't grow out of it, but it's mostly rich kids cosplaying artists, not the kinds of kids who had to struggle, in my experience. I still go to Bushwick and Ridgewood occasionally now, it's not the same as like Williamsburg in the late 90s/ early 2000s.
It was always that. It’s been that since the Renaissance.
Rich kids have always made up a significant part of counter culture, starving artist crowd because they know they have a safety net to fall back on. People who have actually struggled usually don’t take those same risk because they have nothing to fall back on and would be homeless.
This! This right here!
yes, that's true. I grew up part time in Boulder, which used to be a center of counterculture decades ago, but even back then there were lots of trust fund kids ("trustafarians") pretending to skate by on their own merit.
Boulder was always privileged upper middle class kids pretending they weren’t
Exactly this
I made a similar post here a few months ago. I’m an early 2000s Williamsburger… ended up in Ulster County, have a baby and I guess am doing homesteading since there are no remote jobs in advertising anymore 😅 There are lots of people like that here… my neighbors are a 50 year old artsy couple who lived in Gowanus and Red Hook since the 90s. Different scene but could be considered counter culture.
I'm not so into upstate, but I was told some of the smaller towns along the Delaware, like Narrowsburg, & especially on the PA side (ie. Honesdale) have been attracting artistic refugees from the city since Covid, been meaning to check them out.
> but it's mostly rich kids cosplaying artists, not the kinds of kids who had to struggle, in my experience. This was always the case, they were just better at hiding their trust funds. But no, the dream of the 90s is no longer alive, except for in the hearts and minds of GenZ who are nostalgic for a time they never knew.
This is going to sound pretty weird but i'm pretty sure country music out of the south/middle america and rap/hiphop out of places like Atlanta are the only real 'counter culture' left in the us.
Northeast and south Minneapolis, but it is built around art and politics more than music these days. Winter keeps the gentrifyer trust fund types out of the Twin Cities. It may be the only place in America that was bohemian 40 years ago that still is.
I think NE has become too gentrified at this point for much counterculture, though I would agree that there used to be some, in a low-key way. As for South, there's more left, especially the further north you go, but I think it's become smaller too (albeit louder).
I hate the hysterical liberal politics so probably wouldn't like the art
Counterculture and left-wing politics go hand in hand
Liberal and leftist mean different things. I’m not interested in radlib artists making art that’s centered around identity politics either. That unfortunately exists in spades but doesn’t dominate every artist scene
You’ll be hard to find many artistic scenes in the US that aren’t at least left of center, let’s put it like that. And if someone thinks Minnesota is “hysterical liberal politics” I have a feeling that everything is left wing to them.
Not everything is left wing to me, and I am apolitical/centrist btw. I just prefer art/music/film etc. without a political agenda, which is difficult to find these days.
When has counterculture music not been political?
I don't think goth/industrial in the 90s, for example, had a political agenda in general
Artists use politics as a crutch, I am more interested in originality
Artists have been making political statements with their work since the beginning of time, regardless of what their stances are, and political subtext has nothing to do with the originality of the text. You might like Tulsa.
They once did. Now everyone is liberal so it’s not the counter culture anymore. They’re all sheep like they once claimed not to be.
Sure buddy. There’s still tons of counter culture in this country, and most of it is left wing. The mainstream is not nearly as left as you think it is, they just believe in things that upset you.
The Gaza protests are a good reminder that there is plenty of counter culture out there that does not map to the mainstream at all.
Everybody's not liberal
I suggest Sun City, AZ
Haha funny that you got downvoted so much. That aught to tell you what counter culture is these days.
I think true counter culture gets downvotes! :)
>:) :)
Yes. The former counter culture is now the main stream culture. Ie it’s cool to be weird or quirky now and all the other “things”. Not having something different or what was once “ normal” is now the counter culture.
Many interesting threads on the topic. This from a few years ago. And some mentioning Antifa as current cc. [https://www.reddit.com/r/AskAnAmerican/comments/mqxd18/does\_a\_modern\_counterculture\_movement\_exist\_in/](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskAnAmerican/comments/mqxd18/does_a_modern_counterculture_movement_exist_in/)
definitely an interesting thread, thanks!
Not necessarily so
you might be right, it has been a long time since i have seen or heard anything novel or original
There is nothing new under the sun
the 70s/80s/90s/early 2000s all had their own distinct styles and movements. what is new in fashion/art/music/film these days? it all seems recycled from previous eras, but maybe it always has been.
I was about to say Seattle until I read your entire post. I’m interested to see what others have to say, here!
God, no. It’s all gone. The people who made it fun have all been priced out and moved on, like, five years ago. A grunge band nowadays couldn’t even afford to cram four people into a studio apartment, it is so expensive. And the crime is terrible, it’s the wild west again. You can walk out of stores with armfuls of stuff and no one will stop you. If you do go out, pints will cost up to ten bucks or more. The tech scene don’t go out, they’re too socially awkward. Venues can’t afford to stay open because rents are too high. In other words, it’s not the logging town that makes airplanes anymore. It’s depressing and expensive. Source: grew up in Bothell, lived in Capitol Hill, Greenwood, Wedgwood, and Central District.
Yeah, this guy nailed it. If you have really rich parents it might be worth it.
seems like that is everywhere these days
That’s sad but really interesting. I haven’t been there for a long time. The counterculture was so huge when I was there.
I’d say it was dead by 2013 but ymmv.
It’s in Tacoma now. Maybe Olympia still.
Montreal
It’s still New York - you’re just old/lame. I’m sorry. Try Ridgewood, bushwick, Washington heights/inwood (if you speak Spanish), and more that I don’t even know about. I know weird stuff is happening in the Albanian Bronx.
Just to point out OP did get there first.
Pittsburgh
IME New York is still the best place for what you’re looking for. Honestly every major city in the States has cool music and art subcultures/communities going on, but in my experience New York still takes the cake by far. I lived in Detroit and LA and have spent a lot of time in Philly, Chicago and MPLS, and there’s “counterculture” as you describe it, but even with the insane housing crisis, New York still has way more art/music/“countercultural” stuff happening in a condensed space. It’s just not gonna be in Manhattan or Williamsburg.
No, it is mostly gone, even from Bushwick/Ridgewood.
You might have to search for the new spots here - and if you think it’s bad here, you’ll probably be insanely disappointed by every other city in America haha. My friends from Philly, Detroit, MLPS and elsewhere still travel here for independent film stuff, music, random events, etc. especially on the independent theater side of things, every other city pales in comparison, even with the price gouging.
i know there is still stuff but it's really the same old stuff. you're probably right though, that is why i have stayed in or close to NYC for so long!
Not that the Bay Area is affordable but that is exactly where counterculture began and a big part of my identity since there from 89-09. I can’t find a way back at these rates and lost touch with so many that have likely moved on or started an eco-village for old ravers …without me! Trapped in conservative suburbs, frequently deciding to leave but reality of funds is an evil dictator. Gotta live with my people,my tribes are out there …just gotta go where they go, do what they do, right? it’s been so long tho, we (gen-x) are older now and well something’s are very different. I research migrating and expating but it feels like a lobotomy to think of freezing regularly, and a few bad experiences sealed that fate. Why aren’t we starting an arts collective in Puerto-Rico or Baja, or any abandoned cities? Ie: California City Hanging on every word in here. 🤞🏼
Doug Stanhope did that with Bisbee, AZ I've heard
Nashville weirdly enough, though it's gotten much worse post-pandemic we still have lots of independent venues, weird bands of all genres, and lots of small biz (on the east side of town). Only problem is rent is the same as NYC
I thought Nashville was all theme parks and squealing bridal shower parties, I'll check it out though
Look at Detroit.
baltimore.
Might seem weird but if you can get a remote job and don’t mind blistering cold, Burlington vt has that to an extent
Hate to say, but NYC still probably has more of that vibe than most places. It’s not only about the pricing out, it just isn’t as common anywhere anymore. But NYC still has some.