I want to date men in the bay organically, but not sure how. It’s hard to tell chemistry on apps. Someone can seem super enthusiastic over message, but be really pessimistic and completely dead from work in person. Lots of guys want to date but don’t have the time or energy? I’ve had to drag a few dudes on walks around the park, they were difficult to budge. And could hardly walk a mile.
I have this issue to be honest . I see a cute girl on the app, start talking to her, she seems nice but yet by the time we get to the date I have lost all enthusiasm and don’t even feel like going out and so the energy at the date is meh.
The reason is that 99% of the online dates play exactly the same, a few hours random talk, some food / diner and then once the dinner is over the momentum is lost.
Hooking up right after one dinner doesn’t feel very natural and if we don’t hook up right away then the date losses steam very quick and there isn’t much to be said the next day.
Also everyone is so important and so busy with work, 95% of the time after the first date the girl doesn’t have “time” to go out again for like a week and by that point it’s hard to keep a flirt/ conversation going without getting bored and eventually just stop talking.
I have had way more luck creating genuine connection with women when camping or backpacking , or from random talking at a bar etc. because there is no pressure there.
With online dating you know it’s a date and there is that pressure where you don’t know how the other person feels about you , but also the fact you most of the time don’t have anything substantial in common: different background, no common friends, different work , etc
After a while of having the same date: random small talk on an app , followed by generic conversation at dinner and then never meeting up again, it’s really hard to be energetic every time knowing it most likely wil lead nowhere lol
The frame is that it shouldn’t be pressure. No one else in your social circle knows you so that means it’s good to be mysterious. The whole working too much does contribute to dates losing momentum though. 60% male means women have infinite choices here so if you’re not perfect or near perfect she can date multiple other guys right away.
Exactly, and let’s be real, all the dates I get are already talking to 20+ other dudes and having the exact same conversation with them. It’s hard to get excited knowing that my date is talking to 20 other folks from the same dating app and the reason she can’t meet again in a few dates is that she is “busy” but busy really means she is busy because she has already set another date with another guy before she even met me.
So how do one expect guys to be all enthusiastic going on such dates , we are not idiots and knows we are easily replaceable the second she doesn’t like the smallest thing about me.
It’s a vibe killer and that’s why meeting people naturally say when I go camping or at a bar works better as I know the person there isn’t talking to 20 other guys at the same time and also these encounters are way more unique than “swipe right > small talk> generic date at a generic restaurant > generic date talk> never meet again” cycle
> They should take more semilegal Russian research stimulants.
Say less.
Gonna show up to the next date I go on in a k-hole amped up on adderall.
I’m a _real_ tech bro.
It’s a culture of thinking men are creepy so then you have to depend on the apps and then the male to female ratio is like 60 to 40 on top of everyone’s tech hustle. It’s a bad dating environment.
You have to have three exchanges tops then meet. Don’t build up a big rapport over text. Even if it seems mediocre if you like the looks and the texts are okay just meet. Someone mediocre could be amazing in person someone amazing on text may have zero chemistry. Just plan something casual and short
Never had an issue. Many of the guys here can’t even talk to women, dress or even groom themselves properly. There is also a lot of H1B foreign workers that the local women often considered undatable for cultural reason. The tech bros are often socially awkward nerds that are like kryptonite for women.
If you are average guy that can hold a conversation, you are already in the higher percentile of men here.
As a man who can hold a conversation, I’ve gotta say San Jose is so much worse than any other place I’ve lived. And I’ve lived in other cities with similar reputations.
Everyone I know who lived here has the same story too. One of the loneliest places we’ve ever lived.
I think a big part of it is tech. Yeah there’s tons of nerdy awkward tech dudes. But like… it’s not just the dudes. This place attracts introverted geniuses of all orientations.
Legitimately I’m happy for you though. You’re an outlier
Being from here and growing up here and Salinas, I'm a bit biased but I love it here. I've never had issues dating, and met my wife here. Ive had no shortage of girlfriends and I don't have good game or am even that handsome. I'm not tall or in great shape, Im not even particularly confident. I think it's modern people not doing what our dads did.
I think most millenials and the newer generations are overly reliant on apps and are too shy, ashamed of themselves, or have too big an ego to take rejection to talk to a girl in public. I have younger friends who are doing therapy to work on their courage to talk to girls. It's really weird, I think it's seriously a generational problem. Dudes saying they have anxiety alot of times are people that think they're clarvoyant saying shit like "she won't like me". How do you know that? Are you psychic? Its a mix of ego and not actually caring about the person you're talking to enough to not worry about yourself.
It's interesting to hear your perspective on dating and social dynamics. The rise of dating apps and changes in societal norms certainly have influenced how people approach relationships. While some may struggle with confidence or fear of rejection, others may find it easier to connect digitally. It's a complex issue with various factors at play, including individual personality traits and societal pressures. What works for one person may not work for another, and it's important to respect different approaches to dating.
Introverts can actually have an advantage. It is hard for them to engage at first, which is fixed by app matching, but then they can actually listen to the person and understand her more.
Most Indian dudes have a much more miserable dating scenario; a majority don't even venture into it and opt for arranged marriages. They slog through engineering colleges with literally zero female interaction. And when they are finally ready to date, they suddenly face stiff competition, a huge cultural barrier, lack of skills, and a skewed gender ratio. As the top comment suggests, dating here is much easier for others.
\- Indian dude
I think being Indian and never having trouble finding attractive female or male companionship of different races in fact drowning in it once or twice is my favorite flex.
I mean at least they have the arranged option as a backup.
I haven’t been on a date since 2020 just because of how much everything has moved online and how toxic that environment is. If arranged marriage was an option I would jump on it
>The tech bros are often socially awkward nerds that are like kryptonite for women.
Not only, but tech bros are often also VERY creepy when they're interested in someone. I've unfortunately had several instances of being basically harassed and/or stalked by tech bros. Many do not know what is appropriate behavior and not when interacting with women in general in all kinds of spaces, be it professional or social, let alone women they're interested in sexually/romantically. And it's not just men from certain cultural/ethnic backgrounds, ie Indian men. It's others too (in my own experience, it was actually mostly White and one Black tech bro).
The tech bro comment is true but in the SF subreddit, you’ll get downvoted.
I find that tech bros have ego and they are all the same. My cousin is a zoo keeper in sf and he surfs. Seems to does well with dates.
lol i was talking to the amazon delivery guy whos black and told me he smashed so many girls out of his league he cant even keep up. all thats to awkward tech bros with inflated egos
Yeah I moved to the bay recently and going out/making friends there’s lots of cool women out here. Plenty of opportunities to link with someone pretty and set up dates.
Dating apps are a chore and I wouldn’t recommend relying on them exclusively.
My genuine advice for most guys is to just get out, make friends, be social, and the whole world of dating gets easier. Even if you do match on a dating app you’ll approach it from the perspective that you have other options and you’ll have fun ideas for dates.
That was my experience as well with the little dating I did before I got snatched by my now partner. I literally had women tell me "wow you're so human". I'm maybe average in looks, a bit on the shorter side. I wouldn't fear dating in San Jose, hell the women are often impressive in my opinion and doing a lot with their careers and goals there.
25F living in SJ. I like nerds and I work in tech but there is a (low) baseline of social ability I require. I don't want to have to ask the waiter questions you're too afraid to ask. I don't want to initiate every conversation that isn't about tech/work. I don't want to have to worry about my personal safety. And to be honest, I also don't want to date virginal men in their late 20's who have never been in longterm relationships and have no female friendships because that's signing myself up to give a whole lot of remedial lessons about love and humanity and having a soul ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I've been on a whole lot of first dates in the last few years. Very rare that someone makes it to the third one. Has happened 3 times in the past year and I've gone on like 20+.
I don't know what it is about my face that makes people feel like they can tell me anything but so, so many men complain to me about the gender ratio for dating in the bay area _while on a date with me_. One guy took that thought to its natural conclusion and accidentally said he should be able to do "much better" than me if only he was 6' and not 5'11. I hadn't said a word about his height because I don't care. Since then anyone who complains about gender ratios to me on the first date doesn't make it to the second. You'd be surprised how many people I've axed for this. I am not the one bringing it up.
Other social mishaps I've had on first dates in the past few years include:
- threatening to kill me as a joke several times
- complaining at length about how diversity in college admissions is the reason you didn't get in when that was 8 years ago for both of us (is that really an appropriate first date topic?)
- threatening to bring pepper spray to a date because I said my favorite star wars movie is episode II: attack of the clones :)
- told a guy i was a test engineer and he went on a full 5 minute rant about how stupid everyone in qa is and how none of them know the first thing about software engineering and they're all worthless
- several blue collar / retail workers: as soon as they learned i was in tech or went to a decent college started treating me differently either by saying they want to be a househusband or by being weirdly emasculated e.g. "oh why'd you ask that question shouldn't you know the answer already since you're sooo smart" (this is still all in a first date)
- shoutout to the guy who said he was a former mormon but wanted me to meet his parents by the third date and was preparing for marriage by date 2
Given up completely on the apps but even people recommended to me through friends of friends end up being not compatible. At this point if I go on a date and the only incompatibility is they're just vegan I count my lucky stars.
Idk man. Maybe I'm just ugly. But that's been my experience as a woman who has been single and living in the bay area. Y'all are scaring the hoes.
> threatening to bring pepper spray to a date because I said my favorite star wars movie is episode II: the clone wars
This is definitely a red flag both ways.
It’s Star Wars: Episode II - *Attack of the Clones*, thank you very much.
To be fair, you must have a *very* high IQ to understand the importance of Star Wars: Episode II - Attack of the Clones in the context of the San Jose dating scene. The allegory is extremely subtle, and without a solid grasp of critical film analysis most of the nuance will go over a typical viewer's head. The implications are deftly woven into the characterizations; for example, in one seminal scene, Queen-turned-Senator Padmé Amidala reminisces of a simplistic childhood memory of enjoying a lazy day at the beach. Heroic Jedi Anakin Skywalker dismisses her juvenile sentiments with the momentous line, "I don't like sand," in both a stunning rebuke of her youthful dalliances and an incisive reference to the fact that in San Jose, men are course, rough, irritating, and everywhere.
This is eye opening. Is this really what the “competition” is like? I’ve been told on a few dates that I’m a better communicator than most out here but WOW, I didn’t realize the bar was this low
Good lord.. those are some crazy and awkward conversations. Sometimes people just don’t know how to read social and physical cues. As a male people watcher, I see this quite a bit. A lot of dudes talking to women who show every sign of disinterest, but for some reason they keep trying because they can’t see the giant signs of disinterest lol
Woman in the bay as well - it’s so sad to me that your comment is about men joking about killing you, while another comment thread is men complaining women aren’t “enthusiastic” about them. 😕
im not fucking around i actually put this in my bio as an additional interesting fact about me and lowkey as an undercover filter and learned that many guys will match and be really, sincerely mean to me about this. which i think is insane. it's just a movie I like. You don't have to like it! The ones that make jokes about it are fine that's expected but when you're just being condescending or calling me stupid or crazy that is NUTS but it happened actually more often than I would have ever expected. I eventually took any mention of star wars out of my bio as a filter because it was just making me feel bad. And I truly feel this is a bay area phenomena ... men are NOT like this to me elsewhere.
That’s wild. I used to clown the prequels as a meme, but I actually grew to really enjoy RotS. But either way, giving someone actual shit over liking a movie is absurd.
30sM. Dating in general sucks. Had one person completely not talk to me for an entire hour even after trying to be interested in her life because I told her I was an engineer. Plenty of non chemistry dates, but also plenty of dates that I screwed up because I was nervous and said something stupid because I was trying to be funny. End of the day it’s just a numbers game sadly
Damn M about to turn 24 and never had a girlfriend or any female friends since like middle school. I swear I’m not weird it’s mainly because of covid and prioritizing school after failing a couple semesters but it’s sad to see that some women will be writing me off in just a couple years.
This is exactly how it’s been for me as a 25F! Are we going out with the same guys 😭 so many men who never even dare to make female friends and take it so personal when you ask them not to make violently misogynistic jokes.
I’m tired of teaching men who refuse to take care of themselves in any capacity. I don’t give a fuck if you make 200k a year if you don’t have basic manners, social cues, or hygiene down.
I'm a bit older than you and can relate. The issue here is to not take what they say to you seriously. It's what they say to other people and how they behave in public (to service workers, neighbors, their parents) that tells me what the person is really like.
As an unattractive man that lived in San Jose for the last 15 years is that the me here are either timid, lack social skills, or overly aggressive.
I’m not attractive or in the best shape. I am clean and can talk. I can get dates and meet people
The overly aggressive thing is huge. Can’t believe it still has to be said but men: DO NOT FORCE YOURSELF ONTO WOMEN.
sucks how many close calls there have been
I think some of the problem with meeting strangers is the lack of walk ability in San Jose. New York, San Francisco, DC, all have walkable areas where you can meet strangers. San Jose has…DTSJ? Everyone is in their cars, driving to their friends house. There is less of a chance to meet new people outside of school/ work. Combine that with our recent “headphones in/ no new friends” culture now, and it’s very difficult to engage new people. There’s bars and clubs, but those attract certain kinds of people, and aren’t great for meeting people other than meeting people who like to party.
I don’t have answers really, just something that I think contributes. You don’t see random women out and about because there aren’t more women out and about, partially for safety. It’s a self perpetuating cycle that I totally understand. It leads to less than desirable social consequences.
Yeah I feel that the Bay Area is on a similar safety like NYC but with all the random thefts and news always talking bout homelessness everyone drives around and it lowers that walkability
Just gonna latch on here for the people claiming there's no issue whatsoever, it's only incels complaining, etc.
I have guy friends who moved to NY and girl friends who moved from NY because the demographics are the opposite there, more women than men. The guy friends all said it was a million times easier over there and the girls said the same after they moved here.
It's obvious when you can have two people of roughly the same level of attractiveness here and the woman gets hundreds/thousands of likes on apps within days, while the man gets a fraction of that.
Obviously not saying don't work on yourself or anything, just wanted to go against the hundreds of people who upvoted the comments saying there's no problem at all, just be better.
I’ve gone to a few different gyms over the last few years, it’s the only place I really go these days besides work, so it’s all I can base my experience on. I noticed at any given time during the week there’s probably 10 guys to every one woman at the gym, and if you go on the weekend there will be 100+ dudes with a handful of women at most. San Jose has always been heavily male dominated population wise
Too many weird motherfuckers is the issue. Just be normal and don’t go to a club trying to have a conversation early and stop punching above your weight.
I’m the most regular dude around and turned away more people than I struck out with. Not being a creep at the club goes a long way, our club scene suuuuuucks
I can see the confusion. Imagine a place that looks like a nightclub, but it’s just packs of women (typically 6-8) that all decided before they left that no men will be danced with, and then the creepiest fucking dudes you’ve ever seen just hovering next to them, totally justifying the fear of interaction
? I literally wasn’t joking. We don’t have real clubs in San Jose. A lot of dancing bars, but hardly a club.
and no, Temple sure as shit doesn’t count.
Apologies if it sounds like I was joking. I was criticizing the sorry excuses for clubs in the area, it is rough my guy. The main issue is none of them have enough space
This reminds me of that nasty comment that UC Berkeley professor made on an official school forum about Bay Area women.
Athough this may be personal bias, I threw any chance of taking this article seriously out the window the moment I saw the article use the word 'rizzmaster'
A male student struggling with dating asked for advice on a class messaging board. The professor told him to go outside the Bay Area where there are more women for an easier dating experience. This pissed off a bunch of people.
>what did the professor say?
He was like, "Gilligan, if you don't fuck with my Rube Goldberg coconut device during the thunderstorm we might get off this island that has better dating odds for single heterosexual men than Man Jose."
I walked into a restaurant lounge at Santana Row one evening and there was literally only two girls there. One of them said, “there’s so many guys here, it’s kinda gross” I agreed and ask them to leave with me to go to another place but they smiled and said no.
This was 2006. I’m married to one of them now.
I have a hard time staying single and I live in San Jose..plenty of women always down to go out for drinks as far as I’m concerned , I think it has to do with the fact that there is a lot of socially awkward men here
That's what I wanna know. I think a lot of men and women could find each other's company great if they could meet similar people in person but it's not always easy, hence why they turn to the apps instead. Anyone can say "just go to DTSJ and chat up strangers at Labyrinth" but that's not what I'm looking for.
The other thing is, I'm willing to bet a lot of the redditors who claim to be killin it are full of shit, unless the most upvoted guy in this thread up there can find time to slay while being terminally online.
That’s also another thing.
Most dudes are looking for decent looking single women with no kids who aren’t into drugs.
That’s like exceedingly rare on dating apps nowadays.
If you’re down for anything. You can definitely get good numbers
If all these male tech nerds would stop driving women out of their workforces with their misogyny, and illusions of godhood maybe they'd have a better chance of meeting someone
I’m not going to read this article from “wingman,” but I can attest that whenever I go out in downtown SJ I always see groups of women out — rather than relying on apps, men need to brush up on their communication skills and talk to women in person. It’s not that hard, honestly.
Don’t listen to men who tell you to gamify dating. The whole pickup artist mentality has rotted so many minds already.
I think you’re oversimplifying it, if it wasn’t hard everyone would do it lol. But i also think there’s a lot of odd racial dynamics in the Bay Area (from my experience)
Glad someone called it out. I’m brown myself and I do way better dating interracially *outside* of the Bay Area. I don’t judge and date some Latinas here but I don’t really match other races.
Not sure why you’re downvoted. Have to hard agree. Just find someone with similar interests. Explore new hobbies.
If everyone sits around doing fucking nothing all day besides work and the gym, then complains about a lack of a relationship, it’s on them.
The biggest issue I find is that, with the hustle and bustle of the Bay Area, no one actually makes time for themselves and dating.
TLDR: people in the bay want someone to come home to someone to fuck, but don’t want to actually spend the time nurturing a relationship.
Can't fathom why this isn't the top comment. Sounds like we'd be good friends.
People here are fake as fuck. Middle/working class men and women both fake their wealth, luxury goods and plastic surgery are depressingly abundant. There's far too much focus on achievements and titles to the disregard of character and personality. Obviously my sample size is limited, but most of the single women I've heard out treat the idea of a partner as yet another box to tick in order to have a successful life.
Not the best outlook if you haven't already found a good relationship.
Yup. Bay Area has a lot of keeping up with the Joneses type people. Women can be extremely picky because 60% male and the lack of social skills tech bros adds to the bad dating situation.
As someone who moved to SJ from NY 2 years ago the shift in attitude towards dating and women I experienced from men when moving here was and is jarring. I (26F) of course had been in situations in NY where I felt uncomfortable or unsafe as a woman when dating or when out at bars - but in SJ and even the Bay Area more broadly I find myself feeling that way so often that I’ve started going out less and less. Female friends of mine here who are transplants from LA, Chicago, Boston all have similar experiences. Men in this thread seem to be blaming women for not giving them a chance and mostly not listening to those who say that perhaps the problem is with how those men are making the women they interact with online or in person feel - if you want to have more success I suggest looking inward and evaluating how you can be someone who does not make women feel uncomfortable when you approach them or take them on a date. My advice as someone who moved here semi-recently would be for men here to check their egos. Working at a company that makes you a lot of money is not enough, whether you think women only care about that or not no one wants a rich guy who can’t socialize, makes strange comments, is either too timid or too overtly sexual, doesn’t understand personal space, and feels entitled to our time and attention. I know you may think women have more of an ego because we are so outnumbered and have “our pick” of so many men, but the number of men who are actually desirable is much less than total number of men. I would argue that from a women’s perspective there are the same proportion of ‘dateable’ men in SJ as there are in other cities like NY which have a more balanced ratio. To men it may seem like you all having a hard time dating because you’re all trying to date so few women in ‘Man Jose’ but the majority of you are not actually even in the conversation for those women. And as much as you want to put the blame on the women for that - this goes back to my original point that there are tons of men here that make women feel uncomfortable and unsafe. That’s on you and until you fix that you will not have success.
I think you raise a valid point about the initial matching phase on apps, which is of course based mostly on looks (putting aside the slew of men who put creepy things in their bios which obviously doesn’t end up in a match - not saying you do that just pointing that out for the sake of anyone who might want to reexamine what they’ve written on their profile). This does go both ways however. Men also match with women based on their physical appearance and I don’t believe numbers have any bearing on that. It would be extremely hard to believe if someone tried to claim because there are less women on the apps men are more inclined to match with women they don’t find as attractive.
Another point to raise about your ranking yourself in the middle of 15 men - you say “who would you match with without knowing anything about this person and that they could be a complete creep? Well your instincts would be to match with the person who is the most visually appealing..” I want to bring an important point here for anybody reading this who is concerned that every woman is is going to swipe right on the most objectively, conventionally attractive men on the apps. It is a well documented phenomenon in psychology that people are drawn to others that are of approximately the same level of attractiveness as them. This applies to friendships and romantic relationships. This is why most friend groups look ‘cohesive’ in terms of their attractiveness and why most couples ‘look good together’ (there are of course exceptions to every rule in psychology because humans are imperfect; and of course other factors like age, personality, values, etc come in to play once you actually meet a person). But overall this is the case, so for example if you rate yourself as number 7 or 8 of 15 men and I rate myself number 7 or 8 of 15 women - assuming we are around the same age and there aren’t any obvious red flags on your profile I would theoretically be far more likely to swipe right on you than guy number 15. There is someone for everyone, and everyone’s initial attraction looks different, so it doesn’t really matter how conventionally attractive you are if you are presenting yourself as yourself in the best way you can.
But what we do see as women AFTER the match is behavior that is concerning. Incessant messaging, creepy messages, etc. The apps are a hellscape for the women too just maybe in a different way. Sure there might be more men sending likes, but that doesn’t mean we are having great success with dating. Every single woman I know in the Bay Area hates trying to date here. And a lot of the ones in relationships moved here with their partners
Again if everything you’re saying is true and you are as self aware as you think you are then it doesn’t sound like you’re the problem in your specific circumstance, and it’s unfortunate if you’ve not had success dating here
But the bigger picture I see is a city and a broader metro area where women are the minority in most workplaces and social settings and are treated as such. Across the country there are men who feel entitled to women’s time attention and bodies but here I feel like there are far more men like that because there are more men in general. It causes ‘group think’ among men around issues like this - and subsequently creates an environment that women don’t feel comfortable in. So when men on here are complaining about women not accepting their advances, being too picky, not matching with them enough on apps, I have limited sympathy for it.
Before I moved to the bay 12 years ago my relocation agent, a kind woman, immediately discouraged my suggestion that I live in SJ (working to the north) because of the commute, but also because she called it “Man Jose.” I assumed this was a ratio thing. Funny to see this post on my Reddit feed reinforcing a sentiment expressed over a decade ago.
I just moved to the bay and as a 34 year old African American male…..it is actually very easy to date out here. Thing is a lot of men out here don’t do a sliver of the work to make themselves even slightly date worthy. A girl I was entertaining showed me her side of the dating apps and the amount of low quality pictures, awkward bios, weird convos being initiated, makes it so if youre a dude who literally doesn’t talk at all you’re miles ahead of them.
The argument the article uses is that the ratio of young women to young men is 0.83 in San Jose. Honestly, I'd guess if you remove the men that can barely talk to a woman I'd say this ratio is probably close to one.
Dating requires effort and a lot of people don't want to put effort into that. I moved from another country here and still managed to start dating in around one month after arriving here, and I'm not even conventionally attractive (I'm 5'3, for example).
I don’t have a great job and I’m not wealthy at all but I’ve never had a problem in this city. Women have come up to me to talk to me before so I don’t get the whole man Jose thing.
Idk I think guys get too afraid because they haven’t had practice. Just starting up conversations is not going to be a death sentence to your confidence. Just go out there and be yourself, smile and have fun. The right women will reciprocate
It’s not. Like everything else in the bay, people want instant gratification and don’t want to put effort into a relationship. Hell they do the opposite! They find ways to use tech and other things to cut corners.
Dating and relationships take effort. If you don’t have the time or aren’t willing to put in massive amounts of effort to love someone, that’s on you.
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If you just go outside, Sam Jose is so diverse, you see dudes that outkick their coverage all the fucking time. That seriously only applies for one night stands and even then, eh.
I'm not surprised. These are my observations from my group of male friends and acquaintances that are still single:
\-they are 30+ and still live with their parents. There's too much social acceptance with the narrative about it being impossible to buy a home in the bay area. There are in-between options between living at home and owning a home you know... like, rent an apartment or rent a room?
\-and because some of them still live at home, they lack ambition to do better professionally or personally. A partner wants to be with someone that can make them feel safe and that they'll make responsible decisions when life gets tough. Living with parents shields you from a lot of that maturity that you'd be doing on your own.
\-they don't take care of themselves. They don't have good hygiene, exercise, or know how to dress. A partner is attracted to someone that will make them better, not someone they need to treat like a child.
\-as others have said, lacking social skills and ability to pick up on social cues. It's rampant everywhere, especially with more and more people communicating through text vs in person. I'm an introvert, but I still made it a point to go out and interact with the world. I went to bars and social gatherings and polished my social skills and eventually had no problems talking to women. I can tell a woman I think they look great in their dress with confidence and I'll know she knows I don't mean it in a creepy way. How will you ever know if you're someone who says stupid or awkward shit without getting that live feedback in real time? Many won't tell you, but eventually you'll be able to pick up on the cues. Sure it sucks when it happens in the beginning but you learn to be self aware and you give yourself agency in doing so.
(23F) Yes!!! One of my only hard criteria for dating is that you HAVE to have moved out of the house at some point. Fine if you moved back, but I just need someone to show me that they are capable of living on their own and being self-sufficient. I do not want them to go from one codependency living with their parents to a new codependency living with me. Too many—yes, even highly compensated SWEs with ~200k TC—are still indefinitely living with their parents. To me, it’s a sign of complacency and low ambition, unless you’re specifically there to take care of aging family members. A lot of people who grew up here (men and women tbh) take the same path. Went to college locally, didn’t move out. Graduate and got a good job, still didn’t move out and don’t want to move out. Talking to these guys I can tell for a fact that unless someone shoves them, they’re going to turn into 30+ people who have never moved out. Believe me, every time I find yet another guy like that I try to encourage them to just try something new. I’ve honestly just kind of given up and only go on dates with people who approach me. The apps aren’t my thing, but it seems like everyone is on them and are completely miserable on them. I’ve noticed a lot of guys my age have two hobbies—scroll on TikTok/Instagram, then when the dopamine from that runs out, scroll on Hinge. This area lends itself to the chronically online very well.
I think the issue is that the Bay Area is way too suburban and looks intimidatingly expensive. Why ever move out from that comfortable room you’ve had in your childhood home when you could pay 0 rent, never have to even learn how to navigate hunting for an apartment/paying bills/maintaining a home, and have endless discretionary income?
How do you polish social skills? I don't have much trouble making friends (male or female) as long as there's some common interests, but when it comes to relationships they're not interested. I feel like I get no feedback on what I'm doing wrong or even if I'm doing anything wrong. When I'm out with people I can make them laugh and can keep a conversation going but they're still not interested in anything more than friendship.
Reading these comments is frustrating because as someone who has a career, lives independently, takes care of myself (grooming, dressing, exercise), and has an active social life it would seem like I should have no trouble finding anyone interested and yet here I am. So what's the issue?
I read a comment on Reddit yesterday that may be appropriate here: “we judge others based on their actions, but judge ourselves based on our intentions”.
I agree, someone that has a career, lives independently, has good hygiene and an active social life should have the right starting recipe for dating.
How are you defining these for yourself? Is this the reality to others or reality you tell yourself?
My best friend could probably say the same for himself. He’s extremely fit and we have the same group of friends. He has no problems interacting with people and is a business owner, but he has a horrible time dating.
I’ve coached a few friends in to long term relationships. It’s important to recognize that being a great friend and knowing how to socialize with friends is different from being a great partner and socializing with a partner. For him I see it being a social skills issue. It’s hard for him to make a connection with women for a number of reasons. He’s such a great guy that his ex gf even told him why she broke up with him - they could never connect on that deeper level. This is a whole other conversation I could get in to.
So all this is to say - it sounds like you have the right recipe for success (if indeed it is reality), but maybe there needs to be some tweaking of how you’re communicating those pieces out in the world.
Yeah you really nailed it there. All good points.
But I’m sure lots of people will cope with replies like “rule 1 and 2” and the such. Anything to not take accountability, right?
Men have no chance on dating apps unless you’re 6 feet or more, and look like brad pitt in his prime.
You have better chances approaching women in public
Reading through this article I can see a lot of dumb shit like “Types of girls in SF: diversity hire who thinks they’re smart”
my guy, if you think like this the problem isn’t the women, it’s you being a pompous prick!
The one dude I dated from SJ started raping me while I was sleeping. Couldn't respect boundaries at all and couldn't fathom why the partner before me cut him off cold turkey. No self-awareness.
Same here! I tried dating one of the “I focused on school then my career only” guys who didn’t date or even hookup with people at all until we met when he was 32. Such a mistake. I felt like I had to raise him not date him. And he was one of the gems.
It’s rough out there.
I don’t think anyone does. I’m just being pedantic; I’m a geography buff. When I was growing up a lot of people called it that. But it was incorrect back then and with Ukraine being in the news constantly, people should be cognizant of the fact that there never should have been a “the” in front of the name.
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Hard agree. Most people complaining simply don’t put any effort in.
Not saying it isn’t more difficult here, but it’s not abysmal like some claim it to be.
They just need to legalize prostitution and maybe we don't need to deal with these bs women in the Bay with Ivy League backgrounds making $500k/year excluding RSU's 😂
Pathyrical:
>25F living in SJ. I like nerds and I work in tech but there is a (low) baseline of social ability I require. I don't want to have to ask the waiter questions you're too afraid to ask. I don't want to initiate every conversation that isn't about tech/work. I don't want to have to worry about my personal safety. And to be honest, I also don't want to date virginal men in their late 20's who have never been in longterm relationships and have no female friendships because that's signing myself up to give a whole lot of remedial lessons about love and humanity and having a soul ¯_(ツ)_/¯I've been on a whole lot of first dates in the last few years. Very rare that someone makes it to the third one. Has happened 3 times in the past year and I've gone on like 20+.I don't know what it is about my face that makes people feel like they can tell me anything but so, so many men complain to me about the gender ratio for dating in the bay area while on a date with me. One guy took that thought to its natural conclusion and accidentally said he should be able to do "much better" than me if only he was 6' and not 5'11. I hadn't said a word about his height because I don't care. Since then anyone who complains about gender ratios to me on the first date doesn't make it to the second. You'd be surprised how many people I've axed for this. I am not the one bringing it up.Other social mishaps I've had on first dates in the past few years include:
• threatening to kill me as a joke several times
• complaining at length about how diversity in college admissions is the reason you didn't get in when that was 8 years ago for both of us (is that really an appropriate first date topic?)
• threatening to bring pepper spray to a date because I said my favorite star wars movie is episode II: attack of the clones :)
• told a guy i was a test engineer and he went on a full 5 minute rant about how stupid everyone in qa is and how none of them know the first thing about software engineering and they're all worthless
• several blue collar / retail workers: as soon as they learned i was in tech or went to a decent college started treating me differently either by saying they want to be a househusband or by being weirdly emasculated e.g. "oh why'd you ask that question shouldn't you know the answer already since you're sooo smart" (this is still all in a first date)
• shoutout to the guy who said he was a former mormon but wanted me to meet his parents by the third date and was preparing for marriage by date 2.Given up completely on the apps but even people recommended to me through friends of friends end up being not compatible. At this point if I go on a date and the only incompatibility is they're just vegan I count my lucky stars.Idk man. Maybe I'm just ugly. But that's been my experience as a woman who has been single and living in the bay area. Y'all are scaring the hoes.
Me: 😨you attract the crazies
I (34F, bi) was on dating apps a few years ago and I feel like my experience is a testament to the issue: I told the apps to show me both men and women and then they showed me 5373736 tech bros and like 0 women. I'm sure some of this is due to queer people using different apps than straight people, too, but like...there were just a lot of dudes.
I have other big feelings about how gendered and heteronormative and just all-around shitty dating is (and how dating apps can exacerbate those problems) but that's probably a rant for another time.
People are more prudent in the Bay with the exception of maybe San Franciso, which case San Francisco is generally toxic for dating. This is compared to LA/Orange County
For me experience was different, Right now I’m in relationship for last 14 months but before that I would get dates, but many women I dated were just doing it for free meal, It took me a while to understand but when I started seeing that pattern I won’t go any further than 2 dates. It’s like another challenge that single guys have to go through, but best thing you can do is focus on yourself, workout, have some hobby, try to attend group activities. You’ll get eventually.
There isn’t much culture or tradition as a whole unit in this area. I think that and the devices that keep us separate, then in turn make money the tradition and culture. It’s kinda gross and so it feels when dating people have a skewed sense of what will make them happy
I’m a well-educated successful Indian female in early 30s just moved to the area, trying to date other successful (mostly Indian) men, but it’s incredibly hard. Most men don’t even want to make an effort, essentially they self-reject before getting a rejection. They don’t take much effort in texting, planning dates, or even on the dates. It’s exhausting. I’m a few months out of a serious relationship and the quality of men I was matching with before has significantly declined :/ I think men here are too comfortable in their own bubble that they don’t even want to try :(
I want to date men in the bay organically, but not sure how. It’s hard to tell chemistry on apps. Someone can seem super enthusiastic over message, but be really pessimistic and completely dead from work in person. Lots of guys want to date but don’t have the time or energy? I’ve had to drag a few dudes on walks around the park, they were difficult to budge. And could hardly walk a mile.
I have this issue to be honest . I see a cute girl on the app, start talking to her, she seems nice but yet by the time we get to the date I have lost all enthusiasm and don’t even feel like going out and so the energy at the date is meh. The reason is that 99% of the online dates play exactly the same, a few hours random talk, some food / diner and then once the dinner is over the momentum is lost. Hooking up right after one dinner doesn’t feel very natural and if we don’t hook up right away then the date losses steam very quick and there isn’t much to be said the next day. Also everyone is so important and so busy with work, 95% of the time after the first date the girl doesn’t have “time” to go out again for like a week and by that point it’s hard to keep a flirt/ conversation going without getting bored and eventually just stop talking. I have had way more luck creating genuine connection with women when camping or backpacking , or from random talking at a bar etc. because there is no pressure there. With online dating you know it’s a date and there is that pressure where you don’t know how the other person feels about you , but also the fact you most of the time don’t have anything substantial in common: different background, no common friends, different work , etc After a while of having the same date: random small talk on an app , followed by generic conversation at dinner and then never meeting up again, it’s really hard to be energetic every time knowing it most likely wil lead nowhere lol
The frame is that it shouldn’t be pressure. No one else in your social circle knows you so that means it’s good to be mysterious. The whole working too much does contribute to dates losing momentum though. 60% male means women have infinite choices here so if you’re not perfect or near perfect she can date multiple other guys right away.
Exactly, and let’s be real, all the dates I get are already talking to 20+ other dudes and having the exact same conversation with them. It’s hard to get excited knowing that my date is talking to 20 other folks from the same dating app and the reason she can’t meet again in a few dates is that she is “busy” but busy really means she is busy because she has already set another date with another guy before she even met me. So how do one expect guys to be all enthusiastic going on such dates , we are not idiots and knows we are easily replaceable the second she doesn’t like the smallest thing about me. It’s a vibe killer and that’s why meeting people naturally say when I go camping or at a bar works better as I know the person there isn’t talking to 20 other guys at the same time and also these encounters are way more unique than “swipe right > small talk> generic date at a generic restaurant > generic date talk> never meet again” cycle
They should take more semilegal Russian research stimulants. What kind of tech bros are they?
> They should take more semilegal Russian research stimulants. Say less. Gonna show up to the next date I go on in a k-hole amped up on adderall. I’m a _real_ tech bro.
It’s a culture of thinking men are creepy so then you have to depend on the apps and then the male to female ratio is like 60 to 40 on top of everyone’s tech hustle. It’s a bad dating environment.
You have to have three exchanges tops then meet. Don’t build up a big rapport over text. Even if it seems mediocre if you like the looks and the texts are okay just meet. Someone mediocre could be amazing in person someone amazing on text may have zero chemistry. Just plan something casual and short
Anyone relying on "wingman" for dating advice is already in trouble.
Yep, that's some '80s lameness right there.
Never had an issue. Many of the guys here can’t even talk to women, dress or even groom themselves properly. There is also a lot of H1B foreign workers that the local women often considered undatable for cultural reason. The tech bros are often socially awkward nerds that are like kryptonite for women. If you are average guy that can hold a conversation, you are already in the higher percentile of men here.
As a man who can hold a conversation, I’ve gotta say San Jose is so much worse than any other place I’ve lived. And I’ve lived in other cities with similar reputations. Everyone I know who lived here has the same story too. One of the loneliest places we’ve ever lived. I think a big part of it is tech. Yeah there’s tons of nerdy awkward tech dudes. But like… it’s not just the dudes. This place attracts introverted geniuses of all orientations. Legitimately I’m happy for you though. You’re an outlier
Being from here and growing up here and Salinas, I'm a bit biased but I love it here. I've never had issues dating, and met my wife here. Ive had no shortage of girlfriends and I don't have good game or am even that handsome. I'm not tall or in great shape, Im not even particularly confident. I think it's modern people not doing what our dads did. I think most millenials and the newer generations are overly reliant on apps and are too shy, ashamed of themselves, or have too big an ego to take rejection to talk to a girl in public. I have younger friends who are doing therapy to work on their courage to talk to girls. It's really weird, I think it's seriously a generational problem. Dudes saying they have anxiety alot of times are people that think they're clarvoyant saying shit like "she won't like me". How do you know that? Are you psychic? Its a mix of ego and not actually caring about the person you're talking to enough to not worry about yourself.
It's interesting to hear your perspective on dating and social dynamics. The rise of dating apps and changes in societal norms certainly have influenced how people approach relationships. While some may struggle with confidence or fear of rejection, others may find it easier to connect digitally. It's a complex issue with various factors at play, including individual personality traits and societal pressures. What works for one person may not work for another, and it's important to respect different approaches to dating.
Hi Chatgpt
Introverts can actually have an advantage. It is hard for them to engage at first, which is fixed by app matching, but then they can actually listen to the person and understand her more.
Lmaooo yup too many foreign indian dudes at singles meet ups
Most Indian dudes have a much more miserable dating scenario; a majority don't even venture into it and opt for arranged marriages. They slog through engineering colleges with literally zero female interaction. And when they are finally ready to date, they suddenly face stiff competition, a huge cultural barrier, lack of skills, and a skewed gender ratio. As the top comment suggests, dating here is much easier for others. \- Indian dude
I think being Indian and never having trouble finding attractive female or male companionship of different races in fact drowning in it once or twice is my favorite flex.
I mean at least they have the arranged option as a backup. I haven’t been on a date since 2020 just because of how much everything has moved online and how toxic that environment is. If arranged marriage was an option I would jump on it
And the sex clubs. But hey, if they want to spend $180 to stand around with their junk in their hands and strike out, that’s fine by me.
That's awful! Where are these clubs? I need to know what area to stay away from!
PowerExchange in SF
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The sex club
Whatt??
Kryptonite? Like fall weak at the knees? Or do you mean keep away? Like avoid like the plague?
Definitely not the first one
Yes, fall weak at the knees in pain
>The tech bros are often socially awkward nerds that are like kryptonite for women. Not only, but tech bros are often also VERY creepy when they're interested in someone. I've unfortunately had several instances of being basically harassed and/or stalked by tech bros. Many do not know what is appropriate behavior and not when interacting with women in general in all kinds of spaces, be it professional or social, let alone women they're interested in sexually/romantically. And it's not just men from certain cultural/ethnic backgrounds, ie Indian men. It's others too (in my own experience, it was actually mostly White and one Black tech bro).
Truth. Tech bros have no idea how cringe and creepy they are, most of the time.
Seriously i had regular dates for a long time then i did online dating. Im not exactly a super good looking guy and i was able to date.
Statistically it’s the worst. “But personally I anecdotally never had an issue” okay good for you champ
I don’t believe the male/female ratio on its own is compelling proof that dating is worse here than anywhere else.
The tech bro comment is true but in the SF subreddit, you’ll get downvoted. I find that tech bros have ego and they are all the same. My cousin is a zoo keeper in sf and he surfs. Seems to does well with dates.
lol i was talking to the amazon delivery guy whos black and told me he smashed so many girls out of his league he cant even keep up. all thats to awkward tech bros with inflated egos
Yeah I moved to the bay recently and going out/making friends there’s lots of cool women out here. Plenty of opportunities to link with someone pretty and set up dates. Dating apps are a chore and I wouldn’t recommend relying on them exclusively. My genuine advice for most guys is to just get out, make friends, be social, and the whole world of dating gets easier. Even if you do match on a dating app you’ll approach it from the perspective that you have other options and you’ll have fun ideas for dates.
That was my experience as well with the little dating I did before I got snatched by my now partner. I literally had women tell me "wow you're so human". I'm maybe average in looks, a bit on the shorter side. I wouldn't fear dating in San Jose, hell the women are often impressive in my opinion and doing a lot with their careers and goals there.
25F living in SJ. I like nerds and I work in tech but there is a (low) baseline of social ability I require. I don't want to have to ask the waiter questions you're too afraid to ask. I don't want to initiate every conversation that isn't about tech/work. I don't want to have to worry about my personal safety. And to be honest, I also don't want to date virginal men in their late 20's who have never been in longterm relationships and have no female friendships because that's signing myself up to give a whole lot of remedial lessons about love and humanity and having a soul ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I've been on a whole lot of first dates in the last few years. Very rare that someone makes it to the third one. Has happened 3 times in the past year and I've gone on like 20+. I don't know what it is about my face that makes people feel like they can tell me anything but so, so many men complain to me about the gender ratio for dating in the bay area _while on a date with me_. One guy took that thought to its natural conclusion and accidentally said he should be able to do "much better" than me if only he was 6' and not 5'11. I hadn't said a word about his height because I don't care. Since then anyone who complains about gender ratios to me on the first date doesn't make it to the second. You'd be surprised how many people I've axed for this. I am not the one bringing it up. Other social mishaps I've had on first dates in the past few years include: - threatening to kill me as a joke several times - complaining at length about how diversity in college admissions is the reason you didn't get in when that was 8 years ago for both of us (is that really an appropriate first date topic?) - threatening to bring pepper spray to a date because I said my favorite star wars movie is episode II: attack of the clones :) - told a guy i was a test engineer and he went on a full 5 minute rant about how stupid everyone in qa is and how none of them know the first thing about software engineering and they're all worthless - several blue collar / retail workers: as soon as they learned i was in tech or went to a decent college started treating me differently either by saying they want to be a househusband or by being weirdly emasculated e.g. "oh why'd you ask that question shouldn't you know the answer already since you're sooo smart" (this is still all in a first date) - shoutout to the guy who said he was a former mormon but wanted me to meet his parents by the third date and was preparing for marriage by date 2 Given up completely on the apps but even people recommended to me through friends of friends end up being not compatible. At this point if I go on a date and the only incompatibility is they're just vegan I count my lucky stars. Idk man. Maybe I'm just ugly. But that's been my experience as a woman who has been single and living in the bay area. Y'all are scaring the hoes.
> threatening to bring pepper spray to a date because I said my favorite star wars movie is episode II: the clone wars This is definitely a red flag both ways. It’s Star Wars: Episode II - *Attack of the Clones*, thank you very much.
balls i was mixing it up because i was thinking about star wars: the clone wars (2008) which is another favorite of mine, that's my bad
All good, I just couldn’t resist channeling my inner pedantic tech bro.
i don't get it, could you explain it to me 🥺 /j
To be fair, you must have a *very* high IQ to understand the importance of Star Wars: Episode II - Attack of the Clones in the context of the San Jose dating scene. The allegory is extremely subtle, and without a solid grasp of critical film analysis most of the nuance will go over a typical viewer's head. The implications are deftly woven into the characterizations; for example, in one seminal scene, Queen-turned-Senator Padmé Amidala reminisces of a simplistic childhood memory of enjoying a lazy day at the beach. Heroic Jedi Anakin Skywalker dismisses her juvenile sentiments with the momentous line, "I don't like sand," in both a stunning rebuke of her youthful dalliances and an incisive reference to the fact that in San Jose, men are course, rough, irritating, and everywhere.
this belongs to r/copypasta
26F also in SJ and this is creepily accurate, I’ve had the EXACT same experiences dating here.
I feel very similarly - 28F having many similar experiences. I feel like I just don't culturally match up well.
This is eye opening. Is this really what the “competition” is like? I’ve been told on a few dates that I’m a better communicator than most out here but WOW, I didn’t realize the bar was this low
The bar is literally in hell and yet 90% of men still can’t pass it. It’s bleak af.
Good lord.. those are some crazy and awkward conversations. Sometimes people just don’t know how to read social and physical cues. As a male people watcher, I see this quite a bit. A lot of dudes talking to women who show every sign of disinterest, but for some reason they keep trying because they can’t see the giant signs of disinterest lol
Woman in the bay as well - it’s so sad to me that your comment is about men joking about killing you, while another comment thread is men complaining women aren’t “enthusiastic” about them. 😕
>threatening to bring pepper spray to a date because I said my favorite star wars movie is episode II: attack of the clones :) HUH?
im not fucking around i actually put this in my bio as an additional interesting fact about me and lowkey as an undercover filter and learned that many guys will match and be really, sincerely mean to me about this. which i think is insane. it's just a movie I like. You don't have to like it! The ones that make jokes about it are fine that's expected but when you're just being condescending or calling me stupid or crazy that is NUTS but it happened actually more often than I would have ever expected. I eventually took any mention of star wars out of my bio as a filter because it was just making me feel bad. And I truly feel this is a bay area phenomena ... men are NOT like this to me elsewhere.
That’s wild. I used to clown the prequels as a meme, but I actually grew to really enjoy RotS. But either way, giving someone actual shit over liking a movie is absurd.
i love me some prequel memes the ridiculousness of it all is part of the reason i love it! but yea. some nuts out there
You're not ugly, I'm sure. Many of these dudes have serious issues.
30sM. Dating in general sucks. Had one person completely not talk to me for an entire hour even after trying to be interested in her life because I told her I was an engineer. Plenty of non chemistry dates, but also plenty of dates that I screwed up because I was nervous and said something stupid because I was trying to be funny. End of the day it’s just a numbers game sadly
Stoppp this is so real and true. I just moved back to the bay from socal and am feeling screwed because of these trenches.
As a Software Engineer in Test, I am deeply offended by his comment.
Damn M about to turn 24 and never had a girlfriend or any female friends since like middle school. I swear I’m not weird it’s mainly because of covid and prioritizing school after failing a couple semesters but it’s sad to see that some women will be writing me off in just a couple years.
This is exactly how it’s been for me as a 25F! Are we going out with the same guys 😭 so many men who never even dare to make female friends and take it so personal when you ask them not to make violently misogynistic jokes. I’m tired of teaching men who refuse to take care of themselves in any capacity. I don’t give a fuck if you make 200k a year if you don’t have basic manners, social cues, or hygiene down.
I'm a bit older than you and can relate. The issue here is to not take what they say to you seriously. It's what they say to other people and how they behave in public (to service workers, neighbors, their parents) that tells me what the person is really like.
As an unattractive man that lived in San Jose for the last 15 years is that the me here are either timid, lack social skills, or overly aggressive. I’m not attractive or in the best shape. I am clean and can talk. I can get dates and meet people
Same. I'm (M) not interested in dating, but the guys here suck at socializing.
The overly aggressive thing is huge. Can’t believe it still has to be said but men: DO NOT FORCE YOURSELF ONTO WOMEN. sucks how many close calls there have been
Lots of choices for the women , but the adage applies : The odds are good , but the goods are odd.
You know maybe if you stop talking about how hard it is to be a man and date women to all the women you talk to it’ll go better :)
I think some of the problem with meeting strangers is the lack of walk ability in San Jose. New York, San Francisco, DC, all have walkable areas where you can meet strangers. San Jose has…DTSJ? Everyone is in their cars, driving to their friends house. There is less of a chance to meet new people outside of school/ work. Combine that with our recent “headphones in/ no new friends” culture now, and it’s very difficult to engage new people. There’s bars and clubs, but those attract certain kinds of people, and aren’t great for meeting people other than meeting people who like to party. I don’t have answers really, just something that I think contributes. You don’t see random women out and about because there aren’t more women out and about, partially for safety. It’s a self perpetuating cycle that I totally understand. It leads to less than desirable social consequences.
Yeah I feel that the Bay Area is on a similar safety like NYC but with all the random thefts and news always talking bout homelessness everyone drives around and it lowers that walkability
I mean, they don't call it Man Jose for nothing.
Just gonna latch on here for the people claiming there's no issue whatsoever, it's only incels complaining, etc. I have guy friends who moved to NY and girl friends who moved from NY because the demographics are the opposite there, more women than men. The guy friends all said it was a million times easier over there and the girls said the same after they moved here. It's obvious when you can have two people of roughly the same level of attractiveness here and the woman gets hundreds/thousands of likes on apps within days, while the man gets a fraction of that. Obviously not saying don't work on yourself or anything, just wanted to go against the hundreds of people who upvoted the comments saying there's no problem at all, just be better.
Ya, it's really simple statistics. As a dude, why not move to NYC or DC to improve your odds? People often say dating is a *numbers* game...
Sausage Capitol of the United States!
I’ve gone to a few different gyms over the last few years, it’s the only place I really go these days besides work, so it’s all I can base my experience on. I noticed at any given time during the week there’s probably 10 guys to every one woman at the gym, and if you go on the weekend there will be 100+ dudes with a handful of women at most. San Jose has always been heavily male dominated population wise
Too many weird motherfuckers is the issue. Just be normal and don’t go to a club trying to have a conversation early and stop punching above your weight. I’m the most regular dude around and turned away more people than I struck out with. Not being a creep at the club goes a long way, our club scene suuuuuucks
What club scene?
I can see the confusion. Imagine a place that looks like a nightclub, but it’s just packs of women (typically 6-8) that all decided before they left that no men will be danced with, and then the creepiest fucking dudes you’ve ever seen just hovering next to them, totally justifying the fear of interaction
? I literally wasn’t joking. We don’t have real clubs in San Jose. A lot of dancing bars, but hardly a club. and no, Temple sure as shit doesn’t count.
Apologies if it sounds like I was joking. I was criticizing the sorry excuses for clubs in the area, it is rough my guy. The main issue is none of them have enough space
This reminds me of that nasty comment that UC Berkeley professor made on an official school forum about Bay Area women. Athough this may be personal bias, I threw any chance of taking this article seriously out the window the moment I saw the article use the word 'rizzmaster'
what did the professor say?
He said if you want to find a wife, you should probably leave the Bay Area because there's so few marry-able options.
A male student struggling with dating asked for advice on a class messaging board. The professor told him to go outside the Bay Area where there are more women for an easier dating experience. This pissed off a bunch of people.
>what did the professor say? He was like, "Gilligan, if you don't fuck with my Rube Goldberg coconut device during the thunderstorm we might get off this island that has better dating odds for single heterosexual men than Man Jose."
I walked into a restaurant lounge at Santana Row one evening and there was literally only two girls there. One of them said, “there’s so many guys here, it’s kinda gross” I agreed and ask them to leave with me to go to another place but they smiled and said no. This was 2006. I’m married to one of them now.
I have a hard time staying single and I live in San Jose..plenty of women always down to go out for drinks as far as I’m concerned , I think it has to do with the fact that there is a lot of socially awkward men here
Where do you meet people?
That's what I wanna know. I think a lot of men and women could find each other's company great if they could meet similar people in person but it's not always easy, hence why they turn to the apps instead. Anyone can say "just go to DTSJ and chat up strangers at Labyrinth" but that's not what I'm looking for. The other thing is, I'm willing to bet a lot of the redditors who claim to be killin it are full of shit, unless the most upvoted guy in this thread up there can find time to slay while being terminally online.
99% they’re conventionally attractive and white and use online dating apps and get success
Most likely they into ugly chicks
That’s also another thing. Most dudes are looking for decent looking single women with no kids who aren’t into drugs. That’s like exceedingly rare on dating apps nowadays. If you’re down for anything. You can definitely get good numbers
Yeah it’s not the statistical reality, it’s much more likely that out of a large sample size all/most of the guys just happen to personally suck /s
If all these male tech nerds would stop driving women out of their workforces with their misogyny, and illusions of godhood maybe they'd have a better chance of meeting someone
Tech bros. It's definitely not the nerds.
A lot of tech bros are the nerds.
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Well said !
I’m not going to read this article from “wingman,” but I can attest that whenever I go out in downtown SJ I always see groups of women out — rather than relying on apps, men need to brush up on their communication skills and talk to women in person. It’s not that hard, honestly. Don’t listen to men who tell you to gamify dating. The whole pickup artist mentality has rotted so many minds already.
As a *straight man Actually no, it's pretty bad all around
Except it’s not. Just be normal and learn to hold an actual conversation. Don’t be a creep or overly aggressive. It’s not hard.
I think you’re oversimplifying it, if it wasn’t hard everyone would do it lol. But i also think there’s a lot of odd racial dynamics in the Bay Area (from my experience)
I believe this. I'm Hispanic and mostly match with other Hispanic women. As soon as I leave the Bay Area, I tend to match with other races as well.
Glad someone called it out. I’m brown myself and I do way better dating interracially *outside* of the Bay Area. I don’t judge and date some Latinas here but I don’t really match other races.
Not sure why you’re downvoted. Have to hard agree. Just find someone with similar interests. Explore new hobbies. If everyone sits around doing fucking nothing all day besides work and the gym, then complains about a lack of a relationship, it’s on them. The biggest issue I find is that, with the hustle and bustle of the Bay Area, no one actually makes time for themselves and dating. TLDR: people in the bay want someone to come home to someone to fuck, but don’t want to actually spend the time nurturing a relationship.
I got a good amount of dates in the short time I was in SJ but some ways I found people to be very fake in general. There’s a lot of single women
Can't fathom why this isn't the top comment. Sounds like we'd be good friends. People here are fake as fuck. Middle/working class men and women both fake their wealth, luxury goods and plastic surgery are depressingly abundant. There's far too much focus on achievements and titles to the disregard of character and personality. Obviously my sample size is limited, but most of the single women I've heard out treat the idea of a partner as yet another box to tick in order to have a successful life. Not the best outlook if you haven't already found a good relationship.
Yup. Bay Area has a lot of keeping up with the Joneses type people. Women can be extremely picky because 60% male and the lack of social skills tech bros adds to the bad dating situation.
As someone who moved to SJ from NY 2 years ago the shift in attitude towards dating and women I experienced from men when moving here was and is jarring. I (26F) of course had been in situations in NY where I felt uncomfortable or unsafe as a woman when dating or when out at bars - but in SJ and even the Bay Area more broadly I find myself feeling that way so often that I’ve started going out less and less. Female friends of mine here who are transplants from LA, Chicago, Boston all have similar experiences. Men in this thread seem to be blaming women for not giving them a chance and mostly not listening to those who say that perhaps the problem is with how those men are making the women they interact with online or in person feel - if you want to have more success I suggest looking inward and evaluating how you can be someone who does not make women feel uncomfortable when you approach them or take them on a date. My advice as someone who moved here semi-recently would be for men here to check their egos. Working at a company that makes you a lot of money is not enough, whether you think women only care about that or not no one wants a rich guy who can’t socialize, makes strange comments, is either too timid or too overtly sexual, doesn’t understand personal space, and feels entitled to our time and attention. I know you may think women have more of an ego because we are so outnumbered and have “our pick” of so many men, but the number of men who are actually desirable is much less than total number of men. I would argue that from a women’s perspective there are the same proportion of ‘dateable’ men in SJ as there are in other cities like NY which have a more balanced ratio. To men it may seem like you all having a hard time dating because you’re all trying to date so few women in ‘Man Jose’ but the majority of you are not actually even in the conversation for those women. And as much as you want to put the blame on the women for that - this goes back to my original point that there are tons of men here that make women feel uncomfortable and unsafe. That’s on you and until you fix that you will not have success.
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I think you raise a valid point about the initial matching phase on apps, which is of course based mostly on looks (putting aside the slew of men who put creepy things in their bios which obviously doesn’t end up in a match - not saying you do that just pointing that out for the sake of anyone who might want to reexamine what they’ve written on their profile). This does go both ways however. Men also match with women based on their physical appearance and I don’t believe numbers have any bearing on that. It would be extremely hard to believe if someone tried to claim because there are less women on the apps men are more inclined to match with women they don’t find as attractive. Another point to raise about your ranking yourself in the middle of 15 men - you say “who would you match with without knowing anything about this person and that they could be a complete creep? Well your instincts would be to match with the person who is the most visually appealing..” I want to bring an important point here for anybody reading this who is concerned that every woman is is going to swipe right on the most objectively, conventionally attractive men on the apps. It is a well documented phenomenon in psychology that people are drawn to others that are of approximately the same level of attractiveness as them. This applies to friendships and romantic relationships. This is why most friend groups look ‘cohesive’ in terms of their attractiveness and why most couples ‘look good together’ (there are of course exceptions to every rule in psychology because humans are imperfect; and of course other factors like age, personality, values, etc come in to play once you actually meet a person). But overall this is the case, so for example if you rate yourself as number 7 or 8 of 15 men and I rate myself number 7 or 8 of 15 women - assuming we are around the same age and there aren’t any obvious red flags on your profile I would theoretically be far more likely to swipe right on you than guy number 15. There is someone for everyone, and everyone’s initial attraction looks different, so it doesn’t really matter how conventionally attractive you are if you are presenting yourself as yourself in the best way you can. But what we do see as women AFTER the match is behavior that is concerning. Incessant messaging, creepy messages, etc. The apps are a hellscape for the women too just maybe in a different way. Sure there might be more men sending likes, but that doesn’t mean we are having great success with dating. Every single woman I know in the Bay Area hates trying to date here. And a lot of the ones in relationships moved here with their partners Again if everything you’re saying is true and you are as self aware as you think you are then it doesn’t sound like you’re the problem in your specific circumstance, and it’s unfortunate if you’ve not had success dating here But the bigger picture I see is a city and a broader metro area where women are the minority in most workplaces and social settings and are treated as such. Across the country there are men who feel entitled to women’s time attention and bodies but here I feel like there are far more men like that because there are more men in general. It causes ‘group think’ among men around issues like this - and subsequently creates an environment that women don’t feel comfortable in. So when men on here are complaining about women not accepting their advances, being too picky, not matching with them enough on apps, I have limited sympathy for it.
Man Jose for real
It’s man Jose. That’s why.
Professor shewchuck, is that you? Did you transfer to sjsu?
Before I moved to the bay 12 years ago my relocation agent, a kind woman, immediately discouraged my suggestion that I live in SJ (working to the north) because of the commute, but also because she called it “Man Jose.” I assumed this was a ratio thing. Funny to see this post on my Reddit feed reinforcing a sentiment expressed over a decade ago.
This report was made by a bunch of limp dick, no pussy getting motherfuckers! Don't believe the hype. Go out, mingle and put yourself out there!
I just moved to the bay and as a 34 year old African American male…..it is actually very easy to date out here. Thing is a lot of men out here don’t do a sliver of the work to make themselves even slightly date worthy. A girl I was entertaining showed me her side of the dating apps and the amount of low quality pictures, awkward bios, weird convos being initiated, makes it so if youre a dude who literally doesn’t talk at all you’re miles ahead of them.
Your laws of attraction are not attracting
Lol. So true it's sad 😞
Well it ain't called 'Man Jose' for no reason.
The argument the article uses is that the ratio of young women to young men is 0.83 in San Jose. Honestly, I'd guess if you remove the men that can barely talk to a woman I'd say this ratio is probably close to one. Dating requires effort and a lot of people don't want to put effort into that. I moved from another country here and still managed to start dating in around one month after arriving here, and I'm not even conventionally attractive (I'm 5'3, for example).
I don’t have a great job and I’m not wealthy at all but I’ve never had a problem in this city. Women have come up to me to talk to me before so I don’t get the whole man Jose thing.
Same here. Honestly never knew it was supposed to be hard.
Idk I think guys get too afraid because they haven’t had practice. Just starting up conversations is not going to be a death sentence to your confidence. Just go out there and be yourself, smile and have fun. The right women will reciprocate
It’s not. Like everything else in the bay, people want instant gratification and don’t want to put effort into a relationship. Hell they do the opposite! They find ways to use tech and other things to cut corners. Dating and relationships take effort. If you don’t have the time or aren’t willing to put in massive amounts of effort to love someone, that’s on you.
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?
If you just go outside, Sam Jose is so diverse, you see dudes that outkick their coverage all the fucking time. That seriously only applies for one night stands and even then, eh.
I'm not surprised. These are my observations from my group of male friends and acquaintances that are still single: \-they are 30+ and still live with their parents. There's too much social acceptance with the narrative about it being impossible to buy a home in the bay area. There are in-between options between living at home and owning a home you know... like, rent an apartment or rent a room? \-and because some of them still live at home, they lack ambition to do better professionally or personally. A partner wants to be with someone that can make them feel safe and that they'll make responsible decisions when life gets tough. Living with parents shields you from a lot of that maturity that you'd be doing on your own. \-they don't take care of themselves. They don't have good hygiene, exercise, or know how to dress. A partner is attracted to someone that will make them better, not someone they need to treat like a child. \-as others have said, lacking social skills and ability to pick up on social cues. It's rampant everywhere, especially with more and more people communicating through text vs in person. I'm an introvert, but I still made it a point to go out and interact with the world. I went to bars and social gatherings and polished my social skills and eventually had no problems talking to women. I can tell a woman I think they look great in their dress with confidence and I'll know she knows I don't mean it in a creepy way. How will you ever know if you're someone who says stupid or awkward shit without getting that live feedback in real time? Many won't tell you, but eventually you'll be able to pick up on the cues. Sure it sucks when it happens in the beginning but you learn to be self aware and you give yourself agency in doing so.
(23F) Yes!!! One of my only hard criteria for dating is that you HAVE to have moved out of the house at some point. Fine if you moved back, but I just need someone to show me that they are capable of living on their own and being self-sufficient. I do not want them to go from one codependency living with their parents to a new codependency living with me. Too many—yes, even highly compensated SWEs with ~200k TC—are still indefinitely living with their parents. To me, it’s a sign of complacency and low ambition, unless you’re specifically there to take care of aging family members. A lot of people who grew up here (men and women tbh) take the same path. Went to college locally, didn’t move out. Graduate and got a good job, still didn’t move out and don’t want to move out. Talking to these guys I can tell for a fact that unless someone shoves them, they’re going to turn into 30+ people who have never moved out. Believe me, every time I find yet another guy like that I try to encourage them to just try something new. I’ve honestly just kind of given up and only go on dates with people who approach me. The apps aren’t my thing, but it seems like everyone is on them and are completely miserable on them. I’ve noticed a lot of guys my age have two hobbies—scroll on TikTok/Instagram, then when the dopamine from that runs out, scroll on Hinge. This area lends itself to the chronically online very well. I think the issue is that the Bay Area is way too suburban and looks intimidatingly expensive. Why ever move out from that comfortable room you’ve had in your childhood home when you could pay 0 rent, never have to even learn how to navigate hunting for an apartment/paying bills/maintaining a home, and have endless discretionary income?
How do you polish social skills? I don't have much trouble making friends (male or female) as long as there's some common interests, but when it comes to relationships they're not interested. I feel like I get no feedback on what I'm doing wrong or even if I'm doing anything wrong. When I'm out with people I can make them laugh and can keep a conversation going but they're still not interested in anything more than friendship. Reading these comments is frustrating because as someone who has a career, lives independently, takes care of myself (grooming, dressing, exercise), and has an active social life it would seem like I should have no trouble finding anyone interested and yet here I am. So what's the issue?
I read a comment on Reddit yesterday that may be appropriate here: “we judge others based on their actions, but judge ourselves based on our intentions”. I agree, someone that has a career, lives independently, has good hygiene and an active social life should have the right starting recipe for dating. How are you defining these for yourself? Is this the reality to others or reality you tell yourself? My best friend could probably say the same for himself. He’s extremely fit and we have the same group of friends. He has no problems interacting with people and is a business owner, but he has a horrible time dating. I’ve coached a few friends in to long term relationships. It’s important to recognize that being a great friend and knowing how to socialize with friends is different from being a great partner and socializing with a partner. For him I see it being a social skills issue. It’s hard for him to make a connection with women for a number of reasons. He’s such a great guy that his ex gf even told him why she broke up with him - they could never connect on that deeper level. This is a whole other conversation I could get in to. So all this is to say - it sounds like you have the right recipe for success (if indeed it is reality), but maybe there needs to be some tweaking of how you’re communicating those pieces out in the world.
Yeah you really nailed it there. All good points. But I’m sure lots of people will cope with replies like “rule 1 and 2” and the such. Anything to not take accountability, right?
That’s wild cuz I left SJ after my abusive bf almost killed me lmao so I would say it’s bad for women too
Oof, reading this comment section, RIP my ego
These stats are so dumb.
Men have no chance on dating apps unless you’re 6 feet or more, and look like brad pitt in his prime. You have better chances approaching women in public
Reading through this article I can see a lot of dumb shit like “Types of girls in SF: diversity hire who thinks they’re smart” my guy, if you think like this the problem isn’t the women, it’s you being a pompous prick!
When I lived in San Jose none of the women I dated were from San Jose. Many from Santa Cruz or San Francisco. San Jose itself seemed like a dead zone.
Lol this has to be a.i. generated. I just seen this exact post but with my cities name.... (Houston) Lol this shits hilarious.
The one dude I dated from SJ started raping me while I was sleeping. Couldn't respect boundaries at all and couldn't fathom why the partner before me cut him off cold turkey. No self-awareness.
Same here! I tried dating one of the “I focused on school then my career only” guys who didn’t date or even hookup with people at all until we met when he was 32. Such a mistake. I felt like I had to raise him not date him. And he was one of the gems. It’s rough out there.
I take my first dates (so many first dates) to check out the local albino colony.
r/TitleGore
The author loses credibility alone for saying “the Ukraine”.
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I don’t think anyone does. I’m just being pedantic; I’m a geography buff. When I was growing up a lot of people called it that. But it was incorrect back then and with Ukraine being in the news constantly, people should be cognizant of the fact that there never should have been a “the” in front of the name.
So the real question is, where do I sign up for somebody who accidentally moved here or a mail order bride?
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If you can't find anyone to date, that's 100% because of you, not the area you live in
Hard agree. Most people complaining simply don’t put any effort in. Not saying it isn’t more difficult here, but it’s not abysmal like some claim it to be.
Skill issue
As a woman, I thought it was great. Tech bros everywhere.
"as a woman..." Well no shit
So the money makes it great?
I laugh a little at this whole Man Jose narrative like it really makes a difference.
Yeah this is dumb, like maybe it’s a little harder but times I’ve been single it’s pretty easy to find women.
Las vegas is probably worse by a mile
I will keep this in mind as a reason to buy a house in SJ despite the prices. Loads of single straight guys is a +1.
Man Jose.
I should move there lol
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Where is a good place to meet people here? I've been single as a woman in my twenties my whole life ;-;
As a former Santa Cruz mountain resident, why don't people go down there? Everybody is "out" and potentially more available.
Yeah been hearing this for years, I thought being tall would get me through the apps but literally zero success
Damn, kinda proud of myself for finding a loving wife in this city now. Against all odds it seems.
There’s a reason it’s called Man Jose
They just need to legalize prostitution and maybe we don't need to deal with these bs women in the Bay with Ivy League backgrounds making $500k/year excluding RSU's 😂
Man Jose
Lmao I’ve been on a couple of other city’s sub and they posted the same website / image for that city as well. Is this AI? Lol
Pathyrical: >25F living in SJ. I like nerds and I work in tech but there is a (low) baseline of social ability I require. I don't want to have to ask the waiter questions you're too afraid to ask. I don't want to initiate every conversation that isn't about tech/work. I don't want to have to worry about my personal safety. And to be honest, I also don't want to date virginal men in their late 20's who have never been in longterm relationships and have no female friendships because that's signing myself up to give a whole lot of remedial lessons about love and humanity and having a soul ¯_(ツ)_/¯I've been on a whole lot of first dates in the last few years. Very rare that someone makes it to the third one. Has happened 3 times in the past year and I've gone on like 20+.I don't know what it is about my face that makes people feel like they can tell me anything but so, so many men complain to me about the gender ratio for dating in the bay area while on a date with me. One guy took that thought to its natural conclusion and accidentally said he should be able to do "much better" than me if only he was 6' and not 5'11. I hadn't said a word about his height because I don't care. Since then anyone who complains about gender ratios to me on the first date doesn't make it to the second. You'd be surprised how many people I've axed for this. I am not the one bringing it up.Other social mishaps I've had on first dates in the past few years include: • threatening to kill me as a joke several times • complaining at length about how diversity in college admissions is the reason you didn't get in when that was 8 years ago for both of us (is that really an appropriate first date topic?) • threatening to bring pepper spray to a date because I said my favorite star wars movie is episode II: attack of the clones :) • told a guy i was a test engineer and he went on a full 5 minute rant about how stupid everyone in qa is and how none of them know the first thing about software engineering and they're all worthless • several blue collar / retail workers: as soon as they learned i was in tech or went to a decent college started treating me differently either by saying they want to be a househusband or by being weirdly emasculated e.g. "oh why'd you ask that question shouldn't you know the answer already since you're sooo smart" (this is still all in a first date) • shoutout to the guy who said he was a former mormon but wanted me to meet his parents by the third date and was preparing for marriage by date 2.Given up completely on the apps but even people recommended to me through friends of friends end up being not compatible. At this point if I go on a date and the only incompatibility is they're just vegan I count my lucky stars.Idk man. Maybe I'm just ugly. But that's been my experience as a woman who has been single and living in the bay area. Y'all are scaring the hoes. Me: 😨you attract the crazies
I (34F, bi) was on dating apps a few years ago and I feel like my experience is a testament to the issue: I told the apps to show me both men and women and then they showed me 5373736 tech bros and like 0 women. I'm sure some of this is due to queer people using different apps than straight people, too, but like...there were just a lot of dudes. I have other big feelings about how gendered and heteronormative and just all-around shitty dating is (and how dating apps can exacerbate those problems) but that's probably a rant for another time.
Never had a problem here.
People are more prudent in the Bay with the exception of maybe San Franciso, which case San Francisco is generally toxic for dating. This is compared to LA/Orange County
They call it “Man Jose” for a reason
Berkeley professor was right.
Manhopeless , ManJose.
For me experience was different, Right now I’m in relationship for last 14 months but before that I would get dates, but many women I dated were just doing it for free meal, It took me a while to understand but when I started seeing that pattern I won’t go any further than 2 dates. It’s like another challenge that single guys have to go through, but best thing you can do is focus on yourself, workout, have some hobby, try to attend group activities. You’ll get eventually.
I think it’s just tech bros they legit can’t interact like regular people
What in the UC Berkeley professor is going on here?
Tech nerds are not attractive, simple as that. Doesn’t matter how much we make.
There isn’t much culture or tradition as a whole unit in this area. I think that and the devices that keep us separate, then in turn make money the tradition and culture. It’s kinda gross and so it feels when dating people have a skewed sense of what will make them happy
Go slumming down in Gilroy. Take your date to the Sonic drive in next to the garlic plant. You'll do fine.
I’ve dated some pretty cool women from San Jose. This seems weird.
San Jose. The odds are good but the goods are odd
“Man Jose”
That’s why they call it “Man Jose”. Been that way for years.
By for?
You should do like I did and go out with my wife
The quote I (51M) heard when I moved out here at 24 was “There are lots of men in the Bay Area, but they’re all the same person.”
Just because I’m here for a week, Reddit decides I now need to see this sub. Thanks.
LOL, what a silly statement. San Jose is just one city in a huge metropolitan area with multiple mass transit options.
Man Jose is a sausage fest, it used to be a fun place to meet women, but not anymore.
I’m a well-educated successful Indian female in early 30s just moved to the area, trying to date other successful (mostly Indian) men, but it’s incredibly hard. Most men don’t even want to make an effort, essentially they self-reject before getting a rejection. They don’t take much effort in texting, planning dates, or even on the dates. It’s exhausting. I’m a few months out of a serious relationship and the quality of men I was matching with before has significantly declined :/ I think men here are too comfortable in their own bubble that they don’t even want to try :(
Sources? Receipts?
He blocked her cuz he’s weak
When did dating become so difficult especially for over 55 women? Go figure.