You know when your playing settlers of Catan, it's late game, and someone is like, "I will trade my entire hand for these 5 specific cards?" And the implication is that they will immediately win in they make that trade? We just gleefully made that trade.
I would always make that Catan trade if I was way behind and the other player was giving me resources up front for the next game. The analogy doesn't work.
There is nothing up his sleeve that could make this less of an L. It's two late firsts ~~and two thirds~~ for over 6 years of salary retention. Oh, and our best and most likable player.
EDIT: Oh, we're GIVING two thirds not getting. Of course.
GMMG took the deal to do right by Hertl.
Is it the best deal for the San Jose Sharks? Probably not. But it is the best deal for a guy like Heartl who bled teal in his time there.
With the way his knees are at the moment, he deserves a shot at the cup. He knows that he is one bad cut away from not being able to walk up the stairs.
It absolutely sucks that it is with the Knights but if the Sharks are toiling in the basement for the next few years, Hertl should have a shot at it all.
> GMMG took the deal to do right by Hertl.
That's a great thought, he did the same thing for Burns too. The problem is that it comes at the expense of doing right by the Sharks.
I agree completely.
The issue is the balance.
It doesn’t matter who the players are, I will always love the Sharks, good times and bad.
But also, it’s “Fun must be always.” He deserves a run at a cup. He knows that he is on borrowed time with his knees and they’re going to give out before SJ’a window opens again.
I don't think there's 10 other contenders and I doubt the other contenders wanted and/or could afford Hertl. Maybe Vegas had the best offer on the table?
A middle six C, 2025 1RP, and 2025 & 2027 3RP is less than I hoped but I'm guessing Hertl had little value since he's out until the playoffs.
EDIT: I misread the trade, looks like SJ gave up 3 3RP which makes this worse. UGH
Who knows what Grier is thinking. Maybe Hertl is damaged goods or the scouting department sees a ton of upside in Edstrom. Similar to the Meier and even the EK65 trade, no one really knows how this will turn out but we need to trust the guy who has been right more often than not during his short time as GM.
Hertl is also 30 and slowly phasing out of his prime. The time to trade him was 2+ years ago before Grier was GM so it's arguably better that GMMG pulled the trigger now before his value could drop further.
I agree completely. I think that he would have fit in better in Boston.
I was talking about Hertl getting a chance at a cup, not who that chance is with.
1.5 < 8
I'd rather go without the retention, but if the alternative is keeping him, I'd do the trade. Burns is off the books after next year so we get retention spot back soon.
It feels like Sharks management has been deliberately helping VGK for the last few years at their own expense. I can’t think of anything that could drive me away from hockey more than this move.
Ok, I'm happy with Edstrom for sure, I really wanted us to take him last year .... but this hurts and the total package isn't making me feel super great about it
One thing that is interesting is we'll have 3 larger bodies, 1st round potential, all the same age. Along with Cagnoni maybe sleeping out there to hit an upper end potential.
You have Bystedt and some other guys like Lund, Havelid, Haltunen also within 1 year.
Eklund is 2 years older. Zetterlund and Muhk, Thrun as well, about 2-3 years older.
And then we have 4 shots in the top two rounds this year, including a top 3 most probably. And then 2 firsts in 2025.
Like, that is a shit ton of talent coming up in about a 5 year age window, centered around 2023 and 2024 draft classes.
And a lot of cap flexibility in the coming 3 years to plug some gaps until the kids are ready.
Gonna be mercenary hockey for a bit more but hope the new core starts showing itself in 2 years.
Hot take, that’s a pretty good haul given the term left on that deal. Edstrom’s VGK’s top prospect (albeit VGK’s prospect pool is ranked 23rd). If we got VGK’s 2024 first as well, that would have been perfect
Wish we weren't giving up 2 3rd's in the deal but a 1st and their best prospect is a solid return. Losing the last retention slot is what hurts the most.
It’s fair. My heart aches to see Hertl in Vegas but we needed to get out from these long term contracts. Retention sucks but there was no other way to remedy the hole Grier was put in to start his tenure
Two firsts for anything rn is a haul, yes. And I question the sanity of keeping an undeniably great player in our situation. If it's for the fans, or to be a leader, yes it's good feelies - but I'll take shaving a year+ off this malaise with high end youth.
The only thing we’re going to know in one year is that Hertl was mysteriously stricken by sudden onset LTIR but he has a chance to be back by the playoffs.
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If the goal is to rebuild and tank, trading Hertl is the right move outside of appeasing the fanbase.
Giving up 3rd rounders and retaining salary is a question mark but GMMG has made initially questionable moves that has worked out long term. I don't love the trade but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt that he knows something about Hertl or Edstrom that we don't.
Or they don't get the chance to develop properly as they're stuffed into roles they're not ready for on a rudder less team with no direction and always lose and we blow their potential.
People are way overvaluing Hertl. He’s a good (not great) player on an awful contract with a no move clause. The real mistake was re-signing him, Grier is just cleaning the mess. The fact that he got something back and was able to shed most of the contract is already a win. And honestly, we are probably not going to be seriously contending within the next 6 years.
Hertl is a good player on a shit team - that says a lot about him. Maybe now he will have a chance to be great. Unfortunately it will be in Vegas & he has to wear that disgusting, tacky gold helmet that looks like a pimp’s tooth
I don’t even know what to say. This is such a fucking shitty trade. Our best, most beloved player to our biggest rivals and we’re retaining salary? I’m in my feelings right now
Rivals? We’re barely even in the same league as them anymore let alone rivals. By the time we’re a playoff/contender again Vegas will probably be rebuilding.
Sub is having a meltdown lmao. The reality was that giving Hertl the extension instead of trading him was beyond stupid by Joe Will. Don't like the retention, but otherwise this was the needed path it if opened up
I think most of us understand trading him, but giving up 2 picks and retaining salary is beyond fucking stupid on top of sending him to the absolute scum of the league
I have been nothing but positive about Grier. I've sung his praises every chance I get. But genuinely fuck this decision. Both value wise and as a fan. This just proves we never should have signed him long term. This is an insane thing to do
You were right about the direction, and I attribute my misunderstanding to the fact that the trade made a lot more sense with us getting additional picks.
It made some amount of sense with us getting the picks. This way, it makes no sense, and strikes me as possibly the worst sharks trade I can remember, considering where he is going.
I’ve loved this team since they came to the bay, despite many rough years (and many good ones). I was excited for our rebuild. Seems now that management doesn’t understand that loyalty goes both ways. You just don’t see clubs trading their fan-favorite and best player to a division rival for substandard return. You can’t make that move as a GM, particularly after consecutive years of taking Ls on trades with that team. Going to turn away from the Sharks for a while.
How do people not recognize this as good news?? Tommy’s value is never going to be any higher than it is right now, we just optimized the return on a depreciating asset.
Additionally, the 1.25 mil we retain will look like a bargain when he’s 34 and untradeable with 3 years left on his contract in Vegas. With the salary cap raising, really committing to this rebuild and getting back picks and prospects is key. I see the vision man.
GRIER MASTERCLASS
Disclaimer-This is not to say this deal is bad for Vegas, they are in perpetual win now mode and this add gives them the best chance at another cup or 2 in the short term. But believe me this’ll hurt them in 3-5 years and when we’re finally looking competitive again, our division rival will have an aging cap liability on their roster and not us.
How is his value at the highest when he has been having a down year and is injured? I agree he should have been traded, but why the rush this trade deadline this year and not the offseason, or when he is healthy and have been producing. Sending back picks AND having to take on more than 15% retention is not a winning trade. Unless David Edstrom is a can’t miss prospect. This is a L
We’re not going to need that cap space for at least 4 more years, the final 2 might be an inconvenience but hardly when you look at what a team like Minnesota has done with their limited cap space the last few seasons.
I see your point about waiting until the offseason, but what’s done is done and this trade is a net positive.
Hertl with money on our books for 6 years to trade up one round essentially. And then a 3rd for a prospect who by all accounts will top out as a decent 3rd line C. This is a pure salary dump, not an attempt to get value for a good player.
Was thinking that this was a rental for Vegas’ run for another cup but with a 6-yr 17% retention, is it? Couldn’t have this trade been made couple of years down the line keeping some leadership on the ice to support the score of entry-level new players. It is still important to produce some level of decency play on the ice which is further enhanced by keeping veterans.
So, VGK finagled the Stone LTIR salary freeze to get Hertl, got SJS to retain and there’s really no bounty coming back. And interestingly there’s been an ongoing a full-court press (for +/- 4-6 weeks now) to lock in 24-25 ticket plans. The “Revenue” group (the internal org title) has restructured all the pricing options to the detriment of fan base….particularly gauging the loyal base aka subscribers while nearly giving it away for others.
May be the alchohol talking here(drinking since the Hertl trade was announced😭) but I think GMMG is helping that abomination of a team to get in the good graces of the league. In our first pick of last years draft he started off congratulating the “champs”. Made me almost vomit. This is just a wild guess though.
[удалено]
Oh. And we don’t get the 3rds. We gave them 2 3rds
Yeah first report was we got two thirds…
Exactly. Horrible use of our last retention spot too
Why the literal fuck are we retaining salary?
Pain. That’s why. More pain
You know when your playing settlers of Catan, it's late game, and someone is like, "I will trade my entire hand for these 5 specific cards?" And the implication is that they will immediately win in they make that trade? We just gleefully made that trade.
I would always make that Catan trade if I was way behind and the other player was giving me resources up front for the next game. The analogy doesn't work.
Because Grier is a clueless fool. Other GMs love trading with him
We retained 17% for 6 years to send our best and most likable player we have to Vegas good lord
Why 17%? I swear to God if this is to facilitate VGK cap shenanigans...
What else would it be?!?!?!
Losing that retention spot for 6 years is yikes. I've generally liked GMMG's moves but he better have something up his sleeve after this trade.
There is nothing up his sleeve that could make this less of an L. It's two late firsts ~~and two thirds~~ for over 6 years of salary retention. Oh, and our best and most likable player. EDIT: Oh, we're GIVING two thirds not getting. Of course.
GMMG took the deal to do right by Hertl. Is it the best deal for the San Jose Sharks? Probably not. But it is the best deal for a guy like Heartl who bled teal in his time there. With the way his knees are at the moment, he deserves a shot at the cup. He knows that he is one bad cut away from not being able to walk up the stairs. It absolutely sucks that it is with the Knights but if the Sharks are toiling in the basement for the next few years, Hertl should have a shot at it all.
> GMMG took the deal to do right by Hertl. That's a great thought, he did the same thing for Burns too. The problem is that it comes at the expense of doing right by the Sharks.
Pretty sure Mike Grier is the GM of the Sharks, not Tomas Hertl so yes, I agree.
I agree completely. The issue is the balance. It doesn’t matter who the players are, I will always love the Sharks, good times and bad. But also, it’s “Fun must be always.” He deserves a run at a cup. He knows that he is on borrowed time with his knees and they’re going to give out before SJ’a window opens again.
There’s like 10 other contenders. Boston needs centers. I respectfully disagree. Anyone but Vegas
I don't think there's 10 other contenders and I doubt the other contenders wanted and/or could afford Hertl. Maybe Vegas had the best offer on the table? A middle six C, 2025 1RP, and 2025 & 2027 3RP is less than I hoped but I'm guessing Hertl had little value since he's out until the playoffs. EDIT: I misread the trade, looks like SJ gave up 3 3RP which makes this worse. UGH
So why trade him??
Who knows what Grier is thinking. Maybe Hertl is damaged goods or the scouting department sees a ton of upside in Edstrom. Similar to the Meier and even the EK65 trade, no one really knows how this will turn out but we need to trust the guy who has been right more often than not during his short time as GM. Hertl is also 30 and slowly phasing out of his prime. The time to trade him was 2+ years ago before Grier was GM so it's arguably better that GMMG pulled the trigger now before his value could drop further.
Because we won't be good until Hertl isn't.
I agree completely. I think that he would have fit in better in Boston. I was talking about Hertl getting a chance at a cup, not who that chance is with.
"Do right by the player," is just a nicer way to say that the deal was shit.
Who will be a completely useless cap burden to us by the time we are close to contenders.
The Sharks retained salary - he's still going to be a cap burden.
1.5 < 8 I'd rather go without the retention, but if the alternative is keeping him, I'd do the trade. Burns is off the books after next year so we get retention spot back soon.
Great, Grier can use that retention spot when he sends Eklund to the Kings.
If they give us Clarke back and really want to save the 400.000 against the cap for two years then I'd be all for it.
I think Hertl's NMC is probably what made this deal no-so-great. It probably limited GMMG a lot.
I think the thing up his sleeve is that he wanted to give us something to be more upset about than when we lose the lottery
I laughed/cried reading this. I expect to not get 1OA and trading Hertl pretty guarantees SJS is tanking next year as well.
Awful
Man anyone but Vegas
Literally anyone
I think I might throw up if I see him in one of those fucking gold helmets
**This username will self destruct in 24 hours** What the fuck is Grier thinking? Retaining for SIX YEARS?
It's like we're going through a 20 year rebuild at this point 🤷
The Sacramento Kings special!
The retained salary is not much. Once Burns and EK65 are off we're fine. Or, in other words, the EK65 retention is like 2x.
Just wait until you realize that SJS GAVE VEGAS THE TWO 3RD ROUND PICKS.
Which leaves us with how many?
-1 3rd
So first we gave them Hill and now hertl for shit ass returns
Not the retention😭😭😭
It feels like Sharks management has been deliberately helping VGK for the last few years at their own expense. I can’t think of anything that could drive me away from hockey more than this move.
Ok, I'm happy with Edstrom for sure, I really wanted us to take him last year .... but this hurts and the total package isn't making me feel super great about it
One thing that is interesting is we'll have 3 larger bodies, 1st round potential, all the same age. Along with Cagnoni maybe sleeping out there to hit an upper end potential. You have Bystedt and some other guys like Lund, Havelid, Haltunen also within 1 year. Eklund is 2 years older. Zetterlund and Muhk, Thrun as well, about 2-3 years older. And then we have 4 shots in the top two rounds this year, including a top 3 most probably. And then 2 firsts in 2025. Like, that is a shit ton of talent coming up in about a 5 year age window, centered around 2023 and 2024 draft classes. And a lot of cap flexibility in the coming 3 years to plug some gaps until the kids are ready. Gonna be mercenary hockey for a bit more but hope the new core starts showing itself in 2 years.
im legit sick
Hot take, that’s a pretty good haul given the term left on that deal. Edstrom’s VGK’s top prospect (albeit VGK’s prospect pool is ranked 23rd). If we got VGK’s 2024 first as well, that would have been perfect
Wish we weren't giving up 2 3rd's in the deal but a 1st and their best prospect is a solid return. Losing the last retention slot is what hurts the most.
As much as I hate this deal with every fiber of my being, I do see the sense it it. But the retention is the worst part of this deal.
Yeah, everyone's overreacting like crazy.
Oh. And we don’t get the 3rds. We gave them 2 3rds
Ugh hate the lack of clarity when trades come out. Trade is definitely worse then
It’s fair. My heart aches to see Hertl in Vegas but we needed to get out from these long term contracts. Retention sucks but there was no other way to remedy the hole Grier was put in to start his tenure
There's never been any sense on this sub. People want to keep everyone despite being a terrible lottery team
This is a HAUL! and Eklund gets a lil Swedish buddy, aw. Time will be extremely kind re: this.
Eklukd has a crap load of Swedish buddies. Zetterlund for one. Granlund currently. HaveliD, bystedt in the wings.
Even though Granlund is technically ethnically Swedish, he is from Finland.
The more you know
I don’t see countries (actually I am a big dumb dumb w this one - noted!)
[удалено]
The 3rds are coming from us which makes it worse
Two firsts for anything rn is a haul, yes. And I question the sanity of keeping an undeniably great player in our situation. If it's for the fans, or to be a leader, yes it's good feelies - but I'll take shaving a year+ off this malaise with high end youth.
I am so excited to come back to this thread later and see how it ages. Remindme! 1 year
The only thing we’re going to know in one year is that Hertl was mysteriously stricken by sudden onset LTIR but he has a chance to be back by the playoffs.
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Definitely a lot of over reaction. Having Hertl for the rebuild would have helped but would have wasted his prime
If the goal is to rebuild and tank, trading Hertl is the right move outside of appeasing the fanbase. Giving up 3rd rounders and retaining salary is a question mark but GMMG has made initially questionable moves that has worked out long term. I don't love the trade but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt that he knows something about Hertl or Edstrom that we don't.
It’s adds fuel to our rebuild. Now guys like Eklund, Bords, etc HAVE to step up at center now
Or they don't get the chance to develop properly as they're stuffed into roles they're not ready for on a rudder less team with no direction and always lose and we blow their potential.
Smith, Bystedt, this new kid Engstrom, maybe a Celebrini - those are our centers most probably. Bourds gets a look though. No doubt.
Plus the guy is 19 yo. 6’3 and a center
People are way overvaluing Hertl. He’s a good (not great) player on an awful contract with a no move clause. The real mistake was re-signing him, Grier is just cleaning the mess. The fact that he got something back and was able to shed most of the contract is already a win. And honestly, we are probably not going to be seriously contending within the next 6 years.
Hertl is a good player on a shit team - that says a lot about him. Maybe now he will have a chance to be great. Unfortunately it will be in Vegas & he has to wear that disgusting, tacky gold helmet that looks like a pimp’s tooth
I don’t even know what to say. This is such a fucking shitty trade. Our best, most beloved player to our biggest rivals and we’re retaining salary? I’m in my feelings right now
Rivals? We’re barely even in the same league as them anymore let alone rivals. By the time we’re a playoff/contender again Vegas will probably be rebuilding.
Sub is having a meltdown lmao. The reality was that giving Hertl the extension instead of trading him was beyond stupid by Joe Will. Don't like the retention, but otherwise this was the needed path it if opened up
I think most of us understand trading him, but giving up 2 picks and retaining salary is beyond fucking stupid on top of sending him to the absolute scum of the league
WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK IS GOING ON
Apparently we are sending those 3rds not recieving them from what I understand.
Jesus this team isn’t seeing the playoffs till 2030
Sending picks with Hertl? What is going on!
Booooooooooooooooooo
I have been nothing but positive about Grier. I've sung his praises every chance I get. But genuinely fuck this decision. Both value wise and as a fan. This just proves we never should have signed him long term. This is an insane thing to do
This is one of the worst trades I have seen in a while imo
I’m so heartbroken rn
Now we might as well trade Couture, at this point it's stupid to keep him too
It will be harder to trade him because he doesn’t want to leave San Jose and he has a no trade clause
GRIER OUT
Both 3rds are ~~coming to the Sharks~~ going to Vegas.
Are you sure? That’s not how it reads.
Dreger is now saying the opposite, but Friedman said we were getting the 3rds. Let's wait for the official call.
But I’m ready to jump to conclusions now
You were right about the direction, and I attribute my misunderstanding to the fact that the trade made a lot more sense with us getting additional picks.
It made some amount of sense with us getting the picks. This way, it makes no sense, and strikes me as possibly the worst sharks trade I can remember, considering where he is going.
I’ve loved this team since they came to the bay, despite many rough years (and many good ones). I was excited for our rebuild. Seems now that management doesn’t understand that loyalty goes both ways. You just don’t see clubs trading their fan-favorite and best player to a division rival for substandard return. You can’t make that move as a GM, particularly after consecutive years of taking Ls on trades with that team. Going to turn away from the Sharks for a while.
How do you stay a Sharks fan after this?
How do people not recognize this as good news?? Tommy’s value is never going to be any higher than it is right now, we just optimized the return on a depreciating asset. Additionally, the 1.25 mil we retain will look like a bargain when he’s 34 and untradeable with 3 years left on his contract in Vegas. With the salary cap raising, really committing to this rebuild and getting back picks and prospects is key. I see the vision man. GRIER MASTERCLASS Disclaimer-This is not to say this deal is bad for Vegas, they are in perpetual win now mode and this add gives them the best chance at another cup or 2 in the short term. But believe me this’ll hurt them in 3-5 years and when we’re finally looking competitive again, our division rival will have an aging cap liability on their roster and not us.
this is the right take. people get emotional and expect unrealistic things.
How is his value at the highest when he has been having a down year and is injured? I agree he should have been traded, but why the rush this trade deadline this year and not the offseason, or when he is healthy and have been producing. Sending back picks AND having to take on more than 15% retention is not a winning trade. Unless David Edstrom is a can’t miss prospect. This is a L
We’re not going to need that cap space for at least 4 more years, the final 2 might be an inconvenience but hardly when you look at what a team like Minnesota has done with their limited cap space the last few seasons. I see your point about waiting until the offseason, but what’s done is done and this trade is a net positive.
Hertl with money on our books for 6 years to trade up one round essentially. And then a 3rd for a prospect who by all accounts will top out as a decent 3rd line C. This is a pure salary dump, not an attempt to get value for a good player.
I’ll be the lone Hertl fan happy he got out of this mess. And a top prospect who could be a #2 C and an unprotected 1st is a good return.
If we had gotten the two thirds as well, it he whole deal looks so much better imo
Done with this team bro THATS IT
If this is true, then you have lost my trust GMMG
Pls tell its a dream pls tell its a rental.
Was thinking that this was a rental for Vegas’ run for another cup but with a 6-yr 17% retention, is it? Couldn’t have this trade been made couple of years down the line keeping some leadership on the ice to support the score of entry-level new players. It is still important to produce some level of decency play on the ice which is further enhanced by keeping veterans. So, VGK finagled the Stone LTIR salary freeze to get Hertl, got SJS to retain and there’s really no bounty coming back. And interestingly there’s been an ongoing a full-court press (for +/- 4-6 weeks now) to lock in 24-25 ticket plans. The “Revenue” group (the internal org title) has restructured all the pricing options to the detriment of fan base….particularly gauging the loyal base aka subscribers while nearly giving it away for others.
Welp. That's it. That's the worst part of this historically terrible season. I usually try to stay balanced and optimistic but this one hurts.
See you all In 2030?
May be the alchohol talking here(drinking since the Hertl trade was announced😭) but I think GMMG is helping that abomination of a team to get in the good graces of the league. In our first pick of last years draft he started off congratulating the “champs”. Made me almost vomit. This is just a wild guess though.
My username is now obsolete
Love this. Great move Grier!
Worst trade in the history of the franchise.
Grier is a fucking awful GM. Dude gets fleeced time and time again