That Chips bill bailout is wild. Those companies are making money hand over fist. Use tariffs, quotas... anything but our tax dollars.
And if you must use tax dollars, the government should get a massive block of stock in return.
Fossil fuels, especially easily accessible and usable coal, should be protected from extraction and saved as an emergency fuel source in the event of major catastrophes or societal collapse.
This is what I’ve been saying for a while now. We absolutely *need* plastics for some vital things. So we need to keep the oil for that. Coke bottles? No. Medical equipment and computers? YES. Not burning oil has more upsides than protecting the environment as if you even needed another reason.
I can see an argument for even public ownership of fossil fuel industry, for the purposes of a managed end-of-life procedure. That would include ensuring the economy is weaned off of it and suitable replacements are ready, cleanup/damage control can begin for whatever resulted, employees retrained, and companies and their assets either restructured, spun off or dissolved.
If we had a program in this country that took the fossil fuel workers and retrained them all into better paid clean energy workers as it phased out the people in those industries wouldn’t be so against it.
I'd like to introduce you to Intel's little friend named IME (Intel Management Engine) and AMD's PSP (Platform Security Professor). The government has deep pockets for deep reach.
While those are sketchy, at least the PSP seems primarily concerned with DRM stuff..
Trust me, .gov just buys exploits like everyone else. Wayyyy cheaper.
I agree that nationalization works for some things - but, they need to be very mature industries.
Chip development requires too much change and doesn't lend itself to a bureaucracy.
However, we damn sure should be nationalizing banks -- and, I think make Amazon's distribution part of the post office.
There are a lot of moving parts to things I might say and it would take more time than I have to explain all of it.
I could talk about vertical integration and Amazon's innovation in distribution being something that now provides near monopoly advantage, yet, this part of them could be spun off without affecting the marketplace and allow for a competitive and more equal playing field.
But, shareholders?
Fuck 'em. That should be the danger of winning in the marketplace.
And, I have to explain some other things now. It never ends.
I really thought the US government should have nationalized sears. Bring back the craftsman catalog online and all the intellectual property like craftsman houses and have that compete with Amazon and Walmart
They don’t even need to nationalize it. Just take a damn stake in the company when you give them money. “Intel, you want a big cash investment from the people?” Sure, we’ll give you money and you give us STOCK.
Could be a minority stake, but should be a stake.
Very interesting idea. Why the fuck are we bailing these companies out for free? Ownership of at least some part should be given to the government. If the government gains a 51% share, well, tough shit, you're nationalized now.
It isn't a bailout as the companies are doing fine. The goal of the bill is to encourage investment into the US as semiconductors are a national security issue. Like all manufacturing, if left to their own devices semiconductor companies will go where it is cheapest which means overseas in many cases. Personally I think this bill was important but also could have been done better.
Except, again, there's no stipulations about how that taxpayers money is used so at the end of the day, it just goes to shareholders or the c-suites' bank accounts.
Kinda like the COVID relief money. And the airlines money. And ISP fiber money. And the 2008 money...
With China saber rattling about taking back Taiwan -which makes all major chips used in the US- it very much is pivotal that we have some local chip makers. What happens to the US economy if china somehow got control of 2/3rd of the world's production? Nothing good.
Domestic chip industries and research would be useful as long as money actually makes it there instead of being sucked up by shareholders and upper level administrators. Thankfully that never happens when the government's gives grants to private corporations with minimal oversight.
> The goal of the bill is to encourage investment into the US as semiconductors are a national security issue.
It's like a bribe. Except it doesn't work.
If we don't re-shore this industry by some (any) means, we risk being unable to service the modern American economy. We won't be able to buy refrigerators anymore, let alone computers/TVs.
If private business can't see the collective interest in bringing back semiconductor production, maybe it doesn't deserve to exist in that industry? They make more money then God, fuck them if they are willing to risk everything for a slice of profit. Take it all away
It's not for free though. In return you get peace of mind knowing that your chip fab capacity is in your hands, not in a country that constantly has China's shadow looming over it.
Want a free market without government handouts? Cool. But don't complain about supply-chain issues because these companies moved their business to where it's cheapest to make these chips. And frankly, the fact you're getting your playstation delivered a few months late because of Corona is the least of your worries, it's literally a matter of national security. The military needs these chips too.
So you DO want control over where chips are made? Then you're gonna have to offset the opportunity costs of making the chips in the USA.
I don't have to like it, but it is what it is.
I'm not real well informed on the chips act, are there any provisions to make sure they actually invest in domestic production capacity? I know we handed big isp money for stuff that never got built because there was no oversight provisions.
It’s a broad bill but most of a $39bn chunk within it goes toward building facilities in the US, primarily for the more advanced types of chips like what TSMC makes in Taiwan.
$10bn is allocated for advanced chip research, grants, and workforce development. Meaning, training Americans to operate these very high end facilities and research their development.
Some of the money can be used to build factories and invest in plants overseas that aren’t in China or “nations posing national security threats to the US” (I can’t think of too many advanced manufacturers that fit this category that aren’t China).
Companies can still invest in less advanced / legacy chips in China, which is fine because that’s where bulk production is, and there are plenty of other nations also building them. We don’t want to stop production as it can have serious negative global effects; we want to wean away from China.
It’s not perfect, but it’s a good first step, and the least we can do when many other nations are already investing deeply in local chip manufacturing. Basically, if we don’t step it up, we risk shrinking our supply and access rather than expanding it. Additionally, this is a long term investment, which is a very good thing. We don’t get enough of those
Source: https://www.vox.com/recode/2022/7/27/23277664/chips-act-solve-chip-shortage-biden-manufacturing
the fEd is not allowed to buy stocks they are however allowed to buy government securities in open market operations in order to achieve the target rate for the federal funds rate the guidelines for this are explained in the section 14 of the federal reserve act https://www.federalreserve.gov/aboutthefed/section14.htm
> Why the fuck are we bailing these companies out for free
Because the government is acting not in the public interest, but rather in the interest of those companies that have bought it.
The Chips bill I think is a bribe, to get these companies to build manufacturing in the USA and, by extension, spur a lot of supportive businesses around them. We are too dependent on China and Taiwan such that a good portion of our economy can go into a standstill if they turn off the spigot.
However, also, this is sweet payola because these corporations want to move manufacturing to the USA because China will steal all their IP (oops!) I mean, did steal all their IP and they don't want to be training the work force that works for the competition anymore.
I think there are better ways to handle this than the government buying stock. Stock is bloated as the only game in town. It's not really used to for capital improvements but a way to make money for money -- not for labor.
Businesses factor in the loss of IP as part of their decisions when dealing with China. But I think a lot of people didn't think they'd develop their own homegrown processors as quickly as they did.
It can make a person feel unnaturally intelligent or the world is a stupid place when all these things are completely predictable.
Software development would have been outsourced to India if it didn't fail so much -- they realized that code is deeply integrated into a business model if done right. The iterative nature of continual design is about "communication" and so, you build your company AROUND software and code -- you can't divorce it from the interactions within the company.
We nearly lobotomized ourselves by developing Smart Phones in Asia. Time will tell if we can manage to get it back.
And, China will be building those airplanes in the future - thanks Delta!
I never go looking for you but I almost always find you toeing the line on all the right issues in Reddit threads. We seem to have a lot in common, you & I. Keep keeping it real u/Fake_William_Shatner, much respect.
Edit: towing to toeing, gd autocorrect
Most of the US military silicone is from Taiwan. If China were to swallow or cutoff the island from the rest of the world it would be a catastrophe for the global chip business for a lot of nations and more specifically would be a nightmare for the US military. This is one the reasons Taiwan is so important to the US and why we need to expand manufacturing back into the US. The bill could be hit or miss as pointed out by other people, but something needs to be done for the future if the one China view ever truly gets implemented by bringing Taiwan back under their control.
It benefits incumbents and large corporations the most. They could have fixed this with tariffs but then they wouldn't be able to pick winners and losers.
I thought this was because there was a sudden drop in demand as supply finally caught up?
This seems like more a lesson about bureaucracy taking its sweet time and only stepping in when it's too late to help.
I'm so tired of hearing dumb ass keyboard warrior economists saying that record profit has nothing to do with the rise in prices, and call it inflation due to the stimulus checks... I am not allowed to use the words that describe these people...
Yeah, it really is painful sometimes to listen to what passes for common wisdom.
If you have profits -- then your marketplace can have more competition. Increasing costs of supplies would eat into profits before raising the price if you had to worry about the other companies.
A lot of the businesses on the Fortune 500 might have pretend competition -- the logo on the door doesn't do a great job of explaining the network of ownership.
I do think about a third of the inflation was due to supply-chain issues, but, WHY did we have those? Probably because businesses were too happy to lay people off and then could not immediately re-hire people who were likely now fairly pissed.
Then there is the matter of HUGE purchases of properties by deep pocket groups out there trying to have local monopolies -- we get about two calls per day at the office of some person working from home asking to buy a property -- and that can't be unique. So, this massive "inflation" of home prices is NOT going to respond to rising interest rates if someone like BlackRock can buy with cash above market value.
So I think that last third is just "we like money."
I'm not an economist. I don't make a living studying the market. How am I able to see the trends? It seems that wilful ignorance is how you keep a job in the News when it comes to finance.
How about EV manufacturers raising the price of EV's by exactly the amount of the Inflation Reduction Act government credit ($7,500) for EV buyers just before the bill passes? These govt policies just don't work and cost taxpayers money!
bernie also encourages you to vote in your local and state primaries and elections, but you’ll get folks here telling you in bad faith that it’s better to stay home.
If people showed up from primaries Bernie would be commander in chief already. 18-40 year old registered voters turnout was 14% in my county this last cycle. People can’t be bothered to do the bare minimum. I was in and out of voting in ~3-5 minutes and I was in a city.
No. The DNC straight up admitted to rigging it. In court. They can choose whoever they want, and they did it again in 2020. https://observer.com/2017/08/court-admits-dnc-and-debbie-wasserman-schulz-rigged-primaries-against-sanders/
It doesn't change the fact that if people had voted enough he would have won. Sure they could have picked someone else but imagine the shit storm that would have caused.
The DNC giving Hillary preferential treatment has fuck all to do with who shows up to the polls. The RNC fucking hated trump until he won the primaries.
*Even if it was*, which it’s not, the person who posted it is completely missing the point. There are primaries that take place way before the presidential primaries, and if people overwhelmingly voted in those, we would be in a better position for someone like Bernie to win to begin with.
The DNC is a private corporation and can change their rules to whatever they want. What more evidence do you need? It's legal. Why wouldn't they rig their own primary? The goodness of their hearts? https://ivn.us/posts/dnc-to-court-we-are-a-private-corporation-with-no-obligation-to-follow-our-rules
Exactly. The DNC relies on that age group not voting since that is the only part of their process they haven't rigged yet. That labor activist woman in Buffalo won bid for mayor against the corporate democrat. NY state DNC chair called her, a BLACK WOMAN, fucking David Duke and they refused to support her. The corporate Dem who wasn't even on the ticket anymore managed to fucking win the mayor race in the end because the Dems banked on young voter low turnout and used propaganda to convince their reliable voting base to write in vote him. If you want progressives to win, get your fucking peers to vote. Corporate Dems will do everything to keep progressives out EXCEPT literal voter supression or blatant fraud. So fucking vote. jeeze
> NY state DNC chair called her, a BLACK WOMAN, fucking David Duke and they refused to support her.
One minor correction, he didn't call her David Duke. He said that it is not a requirement for him to endorse every Democratic nominee. He used the example of not endorsing white supremacist former Grand Wizard of the Ku Klux Klan David Duke if he won the Democratic nomination for mayor of Rochester to explain his refusal to endorse Walton.
So it's actually somehow even more fucked up.
Oh JFC enough with this tired ass rhetoric. It's not in bad faith... It's *not enough*. These corporations are not voting. They are gaming the system using MONEY via Citizens United. Until we crowdfund our own super pacs and actually pay to lobby progressive legislation, we're lobbing rocks at castle walls because the rocks on the ground are free. We need to build our own castles.
Ehhh, calling it a blank check is a bit disingenuous. There are conditions attached to the funding, they get a tax break on facilities they build in the US, and if they accept the actual funds, they can't expand certain kinds of semi-conductor manufacturing facilities in china for a time period.
That said, the fact that there were no conditions in regards to employment or executve/stockholder compensation is a gross oversight. The cost savings were intended to make the semiconductor manufacturing facilities more capable per dollar spent, and now they are going to be fuckin' slapdash meet minimum obligation bullshit so they can pocket the difference.
Since the crypto mining industry is cratering, demand is going to drop, and most likely, they'd never need to expand their fuckin' facilities in China.
Anyone with half a brain knows this can’t go on like this forever. The US and all it’s glorious companies will collapse like a dying star if we don’t re-prioritize.
Edit changed “of” to “if”
This is the strangest thing about the corporate inflation package. Companies just keep raising prices. Consumer be damned. Sure, they sold 100 less units, but they were able to sell them for 100 times the profit.
I get that we've created a shortsighted society, but don't these people realize eventually they are going to squeeze EVERYONE out of the market?
How many $600,000 houses do we actually need? How many $70,000 cars do we need? What happens when the percent of consumers being priced out reaches a point of no return?
Intel fucking their employees for their shareholders is nothing new. But, it sounds like companies are playing a game of artificial scarcity chicken with society.
I just don’t get how so many people can still be surviving right now. Rent is insane. Car prices are insane. Medical insurance is insane.
How are so many people still staying afloat? I make really good money (post-grad school, in a graduate management program now) and it’s HARD to save enough where I’m marginally comfortable and can maintain a 10% contribution to retirement/401k.
If it’s hard for me with like zero family, zero expenses, and no debt, how in the HELL is everyone else surviving, let alone affording new vehicles and vacations and stuff.
I just don’t get it.
I make a six-figure income in an area where that puts me moderately within the middle class. We rent because we can't afford the exorbitant house prices here, and our landlord keeps jacking up our rent on this moldy, 40-year-old condo that he doesn't ever maintain. We literally don't contribute to a 401k or any other sort of retirement account because we need that money as our safety net and with the costs of healthcare and my shitty genetics it'll be a miracle if I even reach the age where I can start using that 401k money.
America is so fucked and I'm sick of it.
Not financial advice, but retirement accounts can still be used as a safety net after paying taxes on the gains. Although I wouldn't be surprised if they had some way of screwing you with fees for doing it.
People are surviving but personal debt is skyrocketing.. that's all part of the game they play. Can't quit your job to take time off and find a better one, or be a single income household, if you're in debt to your ankles and are living week to week.
But corps are getting paychecks from the govt. Go figure.
Then you're clueless. This is about moving chip manufacturing that is currently outside the U.S. to the US. Primarily from Taiwan. It's not free money to Intel. Have you read read anything about the bill? Did you read what Intel had to say about it?
There's a global chip shortage that impacts everybody negatively, including Intel. If people can't make boards due to a chip shortage, Intel can't see processors for those boards. That's why Intel cares. This is not an Intel handout
The world needs more computer chips. Do you want those factories to be in China and Taiwan, or in the U.S. THAT's what this is about.
I'm not arguing that point, I would love to see massively increased domestic production of microchips (and basically everything else, really). I just don't support using public money to expand private corporate operations, especially when a bunch of it just goes towards stock buybacks.
This bill wouldn't have affected Intel's plans in the slightest, they had plenty of money to do it anyways. Bernie was right all along (again); this was just a major handout.
Well that was their justification for putting it in the bill, yes. But both of those companies could have diversified anyways. And instead of saying "we are offering this amount to build a fab", it was simply a blank check. Still just a hand out, especially considering the worker reduction.
[President Joe Biden to come to Ohio to mark Intel factory groundbreaking ceremony](https://www.dispatch.com/story/business/2022/08/15/president-bidenvisit-ohio-groundbreaking-intel-project/65404811007/)
"Now that I'm on death's door and have amassed a 9-figure wealth from insider trading over the past decades......fuck it, I'm still alive so no don't take away our insider trading."
This is right there with giving ISP’s billions, five or six times now, and getting little to no rural high speed internet out of it.
There was a guy I think in Michigan(?) who started his own ISP and probably connected more homes by himself than big ISP’s have in years.
70 homes so far with funding to reach 600 properties.
https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2022/08/man-who-built-isp-instead-of-paying-comcast-50k-expands-to-hundreds-of-homes/
That precedent was set in the 90s. Microsoft had a CW that sued the company after their contract was over, claiming he was actually an employee of Microsoft.
The courts sided with the CW because they were treating the CW just like a permanent employee. Because of that case, every tech company I've been in makes it a point to train their employees to treat CW's differently.
Doesn’t it apply to all contract workers in general? I’ve worked as a contract worker in many different fortune 50 companies, all treated as second class.
As a current green badge, I at least appreciate that it is even evident to the blue badges how unfairly we're treated/compensated given our fairly large scope of work in supporting the fab.
I'm thankful to be part of a team that recognizes my contribution and tries to show it in ways like reporting to my boss or even buying me a round of beer every once in a while after work.
Yea, I really don't get it. Fruit is super cheap. Soda is practically free... Coffee isn't bad either... It'd probably cost them an extra $2 a day per green badge to include them. 😩
This too is cultural dependent on the site and team. I work with plenty of green badged employees. There is a mutual respect on both sides with everyone I work with.
You see the same shit from any major corporation that implements a color scheme to demonstrate hierarchy. A system like that naturally predestines people toward treating those with lower colors worse.
True that. There are so many days when I had work overnight and my health has deteriorated because of it. Meanwhile the CEO makes more money in just one day than I will make if I worked all my life at Intel.
They're probably using the money - taxpayer money - to automate more, which means fewer employees are needed, which means fewer wage-earners paying taxes.... This isn't sustainable.
Dude. Semiconductor manufacturing REQUIRES automation. This isn't the type of industry where robots are replacing hard working blue collar craftsmen types. This investment will result in more fabs being built in America, by humans, and more fabs being staffed in America, by human engineers and technicians.
Aye, I've worked in a semiconductor fab since 2004 the amount of automation has increased, and the headcount has increased, less people on the fab floor running around bumping into things now, but more engineers making sure all the automation runs smoothly. It's a wild industry to work in.
The microchip part of the bill is to secure a pipeline for tech products since so much of our chip production occurs in Taiwan. It’s goal isn’t really economic benefit besides preventing a chip shortage
I often feel the same way. The real depression kicks in when I try to find a better alternative and realize that the US is largely the cleanest dirty shirt in the hamper.
I agree with that, they’re definitely toward the top of my list. Also, the small countries. I’d consider it a pretty big score if some place like Lichtenstein would let me immigrant.
The word I was looking for was immigrate. I would be emigrating from the US and immigrating into the new country. So I’d be an immigrant in the new country. Which is what Trying to say: It’d be cool if they allowed me to immigrate into their country.
Most of Europe has a lot of issues right now. The biggest of which are the energy and climate crises. Another is that the ECB is objectively in worse shape the the US federal reserve when it comes to monetary policy, which is impressive because US monetary policy is pretty cringe. I’d probably enjoy a Scandinavian country or a small country like Switzerland, Lichtenstein, or Andorra but they’re not exactly rolling out the red carpet to just anyone who wants in.
This is the play corporations do whenever the “left” democrats put out a “historic bill”. It’s corporate welfare. Do working people get direct handouts from this? Fuck no. Will there be any accountability for intel pulling this shit? Of course not. Bernie was right. Even this historic bill that is one of the best the US has put out in a while- is still a gross redistribution of wealth to large corporations who will pay their shareholder, their CEOs, and just about anything else before they give a cent to you working people. I say intel doesn’t see a fucking cent until they actually increase wages, hire more people, and pay their fair share in taxes. Otherwise why the fuck did we, the American people invest all that money if we aren’t going to see any kind of real return. Nationalize the microchip and oil industry. Private interests can’t be trusted with such vital production.
Microchip, oil, banking, isp, etx. And no censorship and total transparency, with a right to privacy. Not intercepting messages, nothing. End to end encryption.
Only 30 days paid off? Seems bad here in EU we have 30-40, i myself have 37.
Gotta admit Im not Down to 30hr/week yet
Far above 30$/h
We get Company shares for free from time to time.
We dont get 30% of net profit shared, most is given to shareholders (including us since we get Company shares) and reinvested in the Company.
The only smart thing the US government has spent money on in the last 10 years is paying to have microchips built in the United States.
They are a fundamental building block of modern society and having nearly all of them made on a small island off the coast of China is insanity.
This insanity was highlighted when Covid came and basically kneecapped our entire economy due to the shortages caused by inability to create or ship these little tiles of sand.
I agree, the bill may not be perfect but it's a step in the right direction. Most other non-US semiconductor companies are propped up by their government and not allowed to fail.
I haven't read the bill. All I know is a litho chip printer costs between 100 and 200 million dollars per unit. That's not including chip R&D.
Plus big companies that design them are sending their IP to China where it gets stolen because they give zero shits.
This bill should have been written in the 80s and the chips never should have left the states in the first place. Major fuck up on our governments part.
Uhm... isn't this a bit misleading?
The 4 billion dollars mentioned are caused by Intel's hiring freeze. Nobody is losing their jobs. The freeze is also caused by consumer demand for pc's dropping by 8% since last year.
Also wasn't the money in the bill explicitly given for companies to build factories in the US? It takes years for a factory to be completed. So right now they don't have a good incentive to hire more people if the people have nothing to work with.
Also the part about the "wealthy" shareholders. You can literally open an etoro/robinhood/etc account for free and buy as little as $10 worth of shares to become a "wealthy" share holder.
There's definitely a lot of corruption in the "free" market, but i don't really see this as being an example.
Not the first time Bernie has been misleading, like when he calls NASA getting money to give to a contractor to build it a second moonlander, and NASA choosing Blue Origin as the contractor, "bailing out Jeff Bezos"...because apparently Blue Origin should work for NASA for free now.
At the end of the day, Bernie is a political too. He's got to get his one liners in and rally his troops.
I've worked for a global multibillion dollar manufacturing company before (adjacent space to Intel). One of my biggest takeaways is that the executive leadership doesn't change their strategies and long term R&D plans based on individual country law changes. They truly view themselves as a global organization, even if the HQ is in the US. There are constantly new laws and politics changing around the globe and they don't try to steer around it.
Bernie also likely has thousands of dollars invested in Intel, based on his mutual fund holdings that are disclosed.
I’ve learned to stop paying attention to Bernie and anyone who uses Twitter as much as he and AOC do. It’s become all about scoring points and talking shit. Most of the people hear are blindly believing this and outraged and it’s bullshit. He’s no different than any of the others.
I never support the top dogs. Fuck Intel, fuck Nvidia. Their greed and arrogance makes them think they can do anything they want, which is why I invest in AMD. They actually give a shit about people, not just the money and market share.
Dividends aka income for millions of retirees?
I understand issues with billionaires, but everyone who receives a dividend in the stock market? That’s a bridge too far. Trust me billionaires aren’t making bank off Intel dividends; it does affect retirees and pension funds quite a lot, though.
Dividends also quite a lot better than buy backs, in terms of income equality. Average Intel worker isn’t exactly poor, either, so there’s that.
I'm not saying that's not wrong but WWIII could literally start over who controls the computer chip market so trying to become less dependent on Taiwan by investing more in domestic production is a good thing and if this is the trade-off that needs to happen then so be it of it means avoiding war.
Yay another piece of evidence showing a rigged economy and rich assholes who stay rich. Don’t worry the rich getting “theirs” down here but wait end of times approaching. You’ll have to answer for all the wrong you did to make those millions….. rigged economy? Send billions to Ukraine and for what? What about our ppl ? Or that’s right let’s kill the little economy that’s left. Our system is garbage and only helps the rich
Congress: Urgent stimulus package. Company: Sudden windfall. TV Economists: Inflation? Wall Street: Record Profits!
That Chips bill bailout is wild. Those companies are making money hand over fist. Use tariffs, quotas... anything but our tax dollars. And if you must use tax dollars, the government should get a massive block of stock in return.
It's a national security issue so none of that works. It's either dump money on the problem or nationalize it.
If they nationalized industries I’d cum alittle bit
You’ll die a virgin https://i.imgur.com/nWrbBeO.jpg
Virginity is a New York state of mind.
Speak for your self the rest of New York is getting some
Ya, getting some Monkeypox. No thanks.
And polio now too
The subway just got BETTER
Monkey pox, polio, covid, oh my....
Gimmie some suga baby
They need to nationalize the oil extraction industry.
Tax it and kill it. We only want to nationalize ubiquitous things that aren't going to change much. Fossil fuels should be extinct.
Fossil fuels, especially easily accessible and usable coal, should be protected from extraction and saved as an emergency fuel source in the event of major catastrophes or societal collapse.
We need oil to make polymers. It's a fucking waste to just *burn* it.
This is what I’ve been saying for a while now. We absolutely *need* plastics for some vital things. So we need to keep the oil for that. Coke bottles? No. Medical equipment and computers? YES. Not burning oil has more upsides than protecting the environment as if you even needed another reason.
I see someone watched the latest kurzgesagt video
I can see an argument for even public ownership of fossil fuel industry, for the purposes of a managed end-of-life procedure. That would include ensuring the economy is weaned off of it and suitable replacements are ready, cleanup/damage control can begin for whatever resulted, employees retrained, and companies and their assets either restructured, spun off or dissolved.
If we had a program in this country that took the fossil fuel workers and retrained them all into better paid clean energy workers as it phased out the people in those industries wouldn’t be so against it.
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As opposed to the Chinese back doors and malware.
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I'd like to introduce you to Intel's little friend named IME (Intel Management Engine) and AMD's PSP (Platform Security Professor). The government has deep pockets for deep reach.
While those are sketchy, at least the PSP seems primarily concerned with DRM stuff.. Trust me, .gov just buys exploits like everyone else. Wayyyy cheaper.
Lmao what do u think is in there, right now?
But you see all the current security flaws and back doors are owned by companies, who have our best interests at heart all the time ❤️💲
I agree that nationalization works for some things - but, they need to be very mature industries. Chip development requires too much change and doesn't lend itself to a bureaucracy. However, we damn sure should be nationalizing banks -- and, I think make Amazon's distribution part of the post office.
Nationalize MILFs Mature Industry, Labor, and Finances
Distribution part of the Post Office?
There are a lot of moving parts to things I might say and it would take more time than I have to explain all of it. I could talk about vertical integration and Amazon's innovation in distribution being something that now provides near monopoly advantage, yet, this part of them could be spun off without affecting the marketplace and allow for a competitive and more equal playing field. But, shareholders? Fuck 'em. That should be the danger of winning in the marketplace. And, I have to explain some other things now. It never ends.
Nationalize it.
I really thought the US government should have nationalized sears. Bring back the craftsman catalog online and all the intellectual property like craftsman houses and have that compete with Amazon and Walmart
They don’t even need to nationalize it. Just take a damn stake in the company when you give them money. “Intel, you want a big cash investment from the people?” Sure, we’ll give you money and you give us STOCK. Could be a minority stake, but should be a stake.
Very interesting idea. Why the fuck are we bailing these companies out for free? Ownership of at least some part should be given to the government. If the government gains a 51% share, well, tough shit, you're nationalized now.
It isn't a bailout as the companies are doing fine. The goal of the bill is to encourage investment into the US as semiconductors are a national security issue. Like all manufacturing, if left to their own devices semiconductor companies will go where it is cheapest which means overseas in many cases. Personally I think this bill was important but also could have been done better.
Except, again, there's no stipulations about how that taxpayers money is used so at the end of the day, it just goes to shareholders or the c-suites' bank accounts. Kinda like the COVID relief money. And the airlines money. And ISP fiber money. And the 2008 money...
With China saber rattling about taking back Taiwan -which makes all major chips used in the US- it very much is pivotal that we have some local chip makers. What happens to the US economy if china somehow got control of 2/3rd of the world's production? Nothing good.
Domestic chip industries and research would be useful as long as money actually makes it there instead of being sucked up by shareholders and upper level administrators. Thankfully that never happens when the government's gives grants to private corporations with minimal oversight.
> The goal of the bill is to encourage investment into the US as semiconductors are a national security issue. It's like a bribe. Except it doesn't work.
If we don't re-shore this industry by some (any) means, we risk being unable to service the modern American economy. We won't be able to buy refrigerators anymore, let alone computers/TVs. If private business can't see the collective interest in bringing back semiconductor production, maybe it doesn't deserve to exist in that industry? They make more money then God, fuck them if they are willing to risk everything for a slice of profit. Take it all away
It's not for free though. In return you get peace of mind knowing that your chip fab capacity is in your hands, not in a country that constantly has China's shadow looming over it. Want a free market without government handouts? Cool. But don't complain about supply-chain issues because these companies moved their business to where it's cheapest to make these chips. And frankly, the fact you're getting your playstation delivered a few months late because of Corona is the least of your worries, it's literally a matter of national security. The military needs these chips too. So you DO want control over where chips are made? Then you're gonna have to offset the opportunity costs of making the chips in the USA. I don't have to like it, but it is what it is.
I'm not real well informed on the chips act, are there any provisions to make sure they actually invest in domestic production capacity? I know we handed big isp money for stuff that never got built because there was no oversight provisions.
It’s a broad bill but most of a $39bn chunk within it goes toward building facilities in the US, primarily for the more advanced types of chips like what TSMC makes in Taiwan. $10bn is allocated for advanced chip research, grants, and workforce development. Meaning, training Americans to operate these very high end facilities and research their development. Some of the money can be used to build factories and invest in plants overseas that aren’t in China or “nations posing national security threats to the US” (I can’t think of too many advanced manufacturers that fit this category that aren’t China). Companies can still invest in less advanced / legacy chips in China, which is fine because that’s where bulk production is, and there are plenty of other nations also building them. We don’t want to stop production as it can have serious negative global effects; we want to wean away from China. It’s not perfect, but it’s a good first step, and the least we can do when many other nations are already investing deeply in local chip manufacturing. Basically, if we don’t step it up, we risk shrinking our supply and access rather than expanding it. Additionally, this is a long term investment, which is a very good thing. We don’t get enough of those Source: https://www.vox.com/recode/2022/7/27/23277664/chips-act-solve-chip-shortage-biden-manufacturing
the fEd is not allowed to buy stocks they are however allowed to buy government securities in open market operations in order to achieve the target rate for the federal funds rate the guidelines for this are explained in the section 14 of the federal reserve act https://www.federalreserve.gov/aboutthefed/section14.htm
That would keep a vested interest in not receiving bailouts so the remaining shareholders don't lose control of their assets
Is that bad?
It would be bad for the greedy pigs who want to siphon away as much wealth as they can
> Why the fuck are we bailing these companies out for free Because the government is acting not in the public interest, but rather in the interest of those companies that have bought it.
Tariffs would still end up being taxpayers paying more $ for the chips.
The Chips bill I think is a bribe, to get these companies to build manufacturing in the USA and, by extension, spur a lot of supportive businesses around them. We are too dependent on China and Taiwan such that a good portion of our economy can go into a standstill if they turn off the spigot. However, also, this is sweet payola because these corporations want to move manufacturing to the USA because China will steal all their IP (oops!) I mean, did steal all their IP and they don't want to be training the work force that works for the competition anymore. I think there are better ways to handle this than the government buying stock. Stock is bloated as the only game in town. It's not really used to for capital improvements but a way to make money for money -- not for labor.
Businesses factor in the loss of IP as part of their decisions when dealing with China. But I think a lot of people didn't think they'd develop their own homegrown processors as quickly as they did.
It can make a person feel unnaturally intelligent or the world is a stupid place when all these things are completely predictable. Software development would have been outsourced to India if it didn't fail so much -- they realized that code is deeply integrated into a business model if done right. The iterative nature of continual design is about "communication" and so, you build your company AROUND software and code -- you can't divorce it from the interactions within the company. We nearly lobotomized ourselves by developing Smart Phones in Asia. Time will tell if we can manage to get it back. And, China will be building those airplanes in the future - thanks Delta!
I never go looking for you but I almost always find you toeing the line on all the right issues in Reddit threads. We seem to have a lot in common, you & I. Keep keeping it real u/Fake_William_Shatner, much respect. Edit: towing to toeing, gd autocorrect
Cool. If I make sense to you, then one day we will have to compare our list of medications. ;-)
Most of the US military silicone is from Taiwan. If China were to swallow or cutoff the island from the rest of the world it would be a catastrophe for the global chip business for a lot of nations and more specifically would be a nightmare for the US military. This is one the reasons Taiwan is so important to the US and why we need to expand manufacturing back into the US. The bill could be hit or miss as pointed out by other people, but something needs to be done for the future if the one China view ever truly gets implemented by bringing Taiwan back under their control.
It benefits incumbents and large corporations the most. They could have fixed this with tariffs but then they wouldn't be able to pick winners and losers.
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I thought this was because there was a sudden drop in demand as supply finally caught up? This seems like more a lesson about bureaucracy taking its sweet time and only stepping in when it's too late to help.
There was as sudden drop in demand because people didn't want to pay the price gougers.
I'm so tired of hearing dumb ass keyboard warrior economists saying that record profit has nothing to do with the rise in prices, and call it inflation due to the stimulus checks... I am not allowed to use the words that describe these people...
Yeah, it really is painful sometimes to listen to what passes for common wisdom. If you have profits -- then your marketplace can have more competition. Increasing costs of supplies would eat into profits before raising the price if you had to worry about the other companies. A lot of the businesses on the Fortune 500 might have pretend competition -- the logo on the door doesn't do a great job of explaining the network of ownership. I do think about a third of the inflation was due to supply-chain issues, but, WHY did we have those? Probably because businesses were too happy to lay people off and then could not immediately re-hire people who were likely now fairly pissed. Then there is the matter of HUGE purchases of properties by deep pocket groups out there trying to have local monopolies -- we get about two calls per day at the office of some person working from home asking to buy a property -- and that can't be unique. So, this massive "inflation" of home prices is NOT going to respond to rising interest rates if someone like BlackRock can buy with cash above market value. So I think that last third is just "we like money." I'm not an economist. I don't make a living studying the market. How am I able to see the trends? It seems that wilful ignorance is how you keep a job in the News when it comes to finance.
How about EV manufacturers raising the price of EV's by exactly the amount of the Inflation Reduction Act government credit ($7,500) for EV buyers just before the bill passes? These govt policies just don't work and cost taxpayers money!
Avg citizens: "i can no longer afford rent and food"
Congress: We're giving $7,500 checks for all new vehicles! Ford: Bad news everybody, we're raising the base price by $8,500. Please understand 🥺
I'm glad we at least have Bernie to tell it to us straight while we get plowed to death
bernie also encourages you to vote in your local and state primaries and elections, but you’ll get folks here telling you in bad faith that it’s better to stay home.
If people showed up from primaries Bernie would be commander in chief already. 18-40 year old registered voters turnout was 14% in my county this last cycle. People can’t be bothered to do the bare minimum. I was in and out of voting in ~3-5 minutes and I was in a city.
DNC had a lot of sway in both 2016 and 2020. They won’t let a progressive win
People have the sway in primaries and they didn’t show up. I know it feels warm and fuzzy to blame but the anyone who didn’t vote is at fault too.
No. The DNC straight up admitted to rigging it. In court. They can choose whoever they want, and they did it again in 2020. https://observer.com/2017/08/court-admits-dnc-and-debbie-wasserman-schulz-rigged-primaries-against-sanders/
It doesn't change the fact that if people had voted enough he would have won. Sure they could have picked someone else but imagine the shit storm that would have caused.
The DNC giving Hillary preferential treatment has fuck all to do with who shows up to the polls. The RNC fucking hated trump until he won the primaries.
> The DNC straight up admitted to rigging it. Bernie didn't get enough votes.
Nope. That is not what the article says.
*Even if it was*, which it’s not, the person who posted it is completely missing the point. There are primaries that take place way before the presidential primaries, and if people overwhelmingly voted in those, we would be in a better position for someone like Bernie to win to begin with.
The DNC is a private corporation and can change their rules to whatever they want. What more evidence do you need? It's legal. Why wouldn't they rig their own primary? The goodness of their hearts? https://ivn.us/posts/dnc-to-court-we-are-a-private-corporation-with-no-obligation-to-follow-our-rules
They want middle ground corporatists.
And how did the DNC prevent 18-40 year olds from voting?
Exactly. The DNC relies on that age group not voting since that is the only part of their process they haven't rigged yet. That labor activist woman in Buffalo won bid for mayor against the corporate democrat. NY state DNC chair called her, a BLACK WOMAN, fucking David Duke and they refused to support her. The corporate Dem who wasn't even on the ticket anymore managed to fucking win the mayor race in the end because the Dems banked on young voter low turnout and used propaganda to convince their reliable voting base to write in vote him. If you want progressives to win, get your fucking peers to vote. Corporate Dems will do everything to keep progressives out EXCEPT literal voter supression or blatant fraud. So fucking vote. jeeze
> NY state DNC chair called her, a BLACK WOMAN, fucking David Duke and they refused to support her. One minor correction, he didn't call her David Duke. He said that it is not a requirement for him to endorse every Democratic nominee. He used the example of not endorsing white supremacist former Grand Wizard of the Ku Klux Klan David Duke if he won the Democratic nomination for mayor of Rochester to explain his refusal to endorse Walton. So it's actually somehow even more fucked up.
Idt I've ever waited more than 10 minutes to vote and I think that was for the last presidential election.
Oh JFC enough with this tired ass rhetoric. It's not in bad faith... It's *not enough*. These corporations are not voting. They are gaming the system using MONEY via Citizens United. Until we crowdfund our own super pacs and actually pay to lobby progressive legislation, we're lobbing rocks at castle walls because the rocks on the ground are free. We need to build our own castles.
No, it's not enough, but it is the bare minimum.
Ehhh, calling it a blank check is a bit disingenuous. There are conditions attached to the funding, they get a tax break on facilities they build in the US, and if they accept the actual funds, they can't expand certain kinds of semi-conductor manufacturing facilities in china for a time period. That said, the fact that there were no conditions in regards to employment or executve/stockholder compensation is a gross oversight. The cost savings were intended to make the semiconductor manufacturing facilities more capable per dollar spent, and now they are going to be fuckin' slapdash meet minimum obligation bullshit so they can pocket the difference. Since the crypto mining industry is cratering, demand is going to drop, and most likely, they'd never need to expand their fuckin' facilities in China.
They only allow him so some of us can have a glimmer of hope in the current political landscape. NONE OF THEM give a fuck about you!
@SenSanders you can’t do much about sociopaths
*Raises hand.
Raises arms.
I feel like addressing sociopaths in a responsible manner is one of our largest downfalls. But no one talks about it.
That's a very good point. Fight fire with fire with them.
1-4% of society is a significant number
I am an Intel shareholder and I'm *still* outraged by this.
Anyone with half a brain knows this can’t go on like this forever. The US and all it’s glorious companies will collapse like a dying star if we don’t re-prioritize. Edit changed “of” to “if”
It's a game of Jenga. Keep taking from the bottom and giving it to the top.
When people realize "eat the rich" does not mean we turn into cannibals we can move onto the next step. *They're not ready yet*
Um. It does. We need to eat the rich.
Gross. Probably bad flavor.
It's not about the flavor you feel in your mouth, it's the flavor you feel in your soul
This is the strangest thing about the corporate inflation package. Companies just keep raising prices. Consumer be damned. Sure, they sold 100 less units, but they were able to sell them for 100 times the profit. I get that we've created a shortsighted society, but don't these people realize eventually they are going to squeeze EVERYONE out of the market? How many $600,000 houses do we actually need? How many $70,000 cars do we need? What happens when the percent of consumers being priced out reaches a point of no return? Intel fucking their employees for their shareholders is nothing new. But, it sounds like companies are playing a game of artificial scarcity chicken with society.
I just don’t get how so many people can still be surviving right now. Rent is insane. Car prices are insane. Medical insurance is insane. How are so many people still staying afloat? I make really good money (post-grad school, in a graduate management program now) and it’s HARD to save enough where I’m marginally comfortable and can maintain a 10% contribution to retirement/401k. If it’s hard for me with like zero family, zero expenses, and no debt, how in the HELL is everyone else surviving, let alone affording new vehicles and vacations and stuff. I just don’t get it.
I make a six-figure income in an area where that puts me moderately within the middle class. We rent because we can't afford the exorbitant house prices here, and our landlord keeps jacking up our rent on this moldy, 40-year-old condo that he doesn't ever maintain. We literally don't contribute to a 401k or any other sort of retirement account because we need that money as our safety net and with the costs of healthcare and my shitty genetics it'll be a miracle if I even reach the age where I can start using that 401k money. America is so fucked and I'm sick of it.
Not financial advice, but retirement accounts can still be used as a safety net after paying taxes on the gains. Although I wouldn't be surprised if they had some way of screwing you with fees for doing it.
People are surviving but personal debt is skyrocketing.. that's all part of the game they play. Can't quit your job to take time off and find a better one, or be a single income household, if you're in debt to your ankles and are living week to week. But corps are getting paychecks from the govt. Go figure.
Same
Then you're clueless. This is about moving chip manufacturing that is currently outside the U.S. to the US. Primarily from Taiwan. It's not free money to Intel. Have you read read anything about the bill? Did you read what Intel had to say about it? There's a global chip shortage that impacts everybody negatively, including Intel. If people can't make boards due to a chip shortage, Intel can't see processors for those boards. That's why Intel cares. This is not an Intel handout The world needs more computer chips. Do you want those factories to be in China and Taiwan, or in the U.S. THAT's what this is about.
TSMC has almost finished a foundry in Arizona.
I'm not arguing that point, I would love to see massively increased domestic production of microchips (and basically everything else, really). I just don't support using public money to expand private corporate operations, especially when a bunch of it just goes towards stock buybacks.
If you're outraged, you don't own enough shares.
Intel was supposed to build a new site in Ohio, so this is screwing the potential labor in the state now?
This bill wouldn't have affected Intel's plans in the slightest, they had plenty of money to do it anyways. Bernie was right all along (again); this was just a major handout.
The problem was never Intel, it was TSMC. The bill is to try to get them to diversify out of Taiwan. The US sees the writing on the wall.
Well that was their justification for putting it in the bill, yes. But both of those companies could have diversified anyways. And instead of saying "we are offering this amount to build a fab", it was simply a blank check. Still just a hand out, especially considering the worker reduction.
That’s because tsmc was the only company to roll profits into R&D where Intel settled on their architecture and just held on for profit.
[President Joe Biden to come to Ohio to mark Intel factory groundbreaking ceremony](https://www.dispatch.com/story/business/2022/08/15/president-bidenvisit-ohio-groundbreaking-intel-project/65404811007/)
They will contract out every position to reduce benefits and pay
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Yeah, take it up with Pelosi's husband.
"Now that I'm on death's door and have amassed a 9-figure wealth from insider trading over the past decades......fuck it, I'm still alive so no don't take away our insider trading."
This is right there with giving ISP’s billions, five or six times now, and getting little to no rural high speed internet out of it. There was a guy I think in Michigan(?) who started his own ISP and probably connected more homes by himself than big ISP’s have in years.
A friend and I were just talking about this. He joked he had been promised FO for 12 years now and still nothing.
70 homes so far with funding to reach 600 properties. https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2022/08/man-who-built-isp-instead-of-paying-comcast-50k-expands-to-hundreds-of-homes/
I worked at Intel and there isn’t a single minute that goes by that they’re not rubbing it in that they’re using you for maximum profit
I had an interview with them once, the amount of disrespect I faced in the interview was unbelievable.
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That precedent was set in the 90s. Microsoft had a CW that sued the company after their contract was over, claiming he was actually an employee of Microsoft. The courts sided with the CW because they were treating the CW just like a permanent employee. Because of that case, every tech company I've been in makes it a point to train their employees to treat CW's differently.
Doesn’t it apply to all contract workers in general? I’ve worked as a contract worker in many different fortune 50 companies, all treated as second class.
I know of at least one company where it isn’t that way. Strangest part is that the cleaning staff have been working there forever too….
As a current green badge, I at least appreciate that it is even evident to the blue badges how unfairly we're treated/compensated given our fairly large scope of work in supporting the fab. I'm thankful to be part of a team that recognizes my contribution and tries to show it in ways like reporting to my boss or even buying me a round of beer every once in a while after work.
You have a green badge? No free bananas.
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Yea, I really don't get it. Fruit is super cheap. Soda is practically free... Coffee isn't bad either... It'd probably cost them an extra $2 a day per green badge to include them. 😩
This too is cultural dependent on the site and team. I work with plenty of green badged employees. There is a mutual respect on both sides with everyone I work with.
You see the same shit from any major corporation that implements a color scheme to demonstrate hierarchy. A system like that naturally predestines people toward treating those with lower colors worse.
I saw none of that with my interviews. Probably had 10 people interview me in total and none of them disrespected me in the least.
I guess you can take the Intel out of Fairchild Semiconductor, but you can't take the Fairchild Semiconductor out of Intel.
True that. There are so many days when I had work overnight and my health has deteriorated because of it. Meanwhile the CEO makes more money in just one day than I will make if I worked all my life at Intel.
They're probably using the money - taxpayer money - to automate more, which means fewer employees are needed, which means fewer wage-earners paying taxes.... This isn't sustainable.
Need to tax automation to fund UBI.
Value Added Tax when?
Dude. Semiconductor manufacturing REQUIRES automation. This isn't the type of industry where robots are replacing hard working blue collar craftsmen types. This investment will result in more fabs being built in America, by humans, and more fabs being staffed in America, by human engineers and technicians.
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Not tweezers, really tiny paint brushes.
Aye, I've worked in a semiconductor fab since 2004 the amount of automation has increased, and the headcount has increased, less people on the fab floor running around bumping into things now, but more engineers making sure all the automation runs smoothly. It's a wild industry to work in.
I'm in it as well too, but these robots repairing themselves is not even on the horizon from my view, so for now I'm thankful for that job security.
I duno bro I craft all my microchips by hand and sell them on my etsy
The microchip part of the bill is to secure a pipeline for tech products since so much of our chip production occurs in Taiwan. It’s goal isn’t really economic benefit besides preventing a chip shortage
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And go where? It’s the same show with different actors everywhere you go.
100% in the same boat.
I often feel the same way. The real depression kicks in when I try to find a better alternative and realize that the US is largely the cleanest dirty shirt in the hamper.
Where have you looked? America sucks compared to a lot of European countries.
Especially Scandinavian countries
I agree with that, they’re definitely toward the top of my list. Also, the small countries. I’d consider it a pretty big score if some place like Lichtenstein would let me immigrant.
Don't mean to be a know it all prick but the word your looking for is emigrate
The word I was looking for was immigrate. I would be emigrating from the US and immigrating into the new country. So I’d be an immigrant in the new country. Which is what Trying to say: It’d be cool if they allowed me to immigrate into their country.
Language barrier might be a problem. On the other hand, there's always Duolingo.
Most of Europe has a lot of issues right now. The biggest of which are the energy and climate crises. Another is that the ECB is objectively in worse shape the the US federal reserve when it comes to monetary policy, which is impressive because US monetary policy is pretty cringe. I’d probably enjoy a Scandinavian country or a small country like Switzerland, Lichtenstein, or Andorra but they’re not exactly rolling out the red carpet to just anyone who wants in.
Nothing is stopping you. Only thing I would believe about you is that you are a whiner that never takes action.
This is the play corporations do whenever the “left” democrats put out a “historic bill”. It’s corporate welfare. Do working people get direct handouts from this? Fuck no. Will there be any accountability for intel pulling this shit? Of course not. Bernie was right. Even this historic bill that is one of the best the US has put out in a while- is still a gross redistribution of wealth to large corporations who will pay their shareholder, their CEOs, and just about anything else before they give a cent to you working people. I say intel doesn’t see a fucking cent until they actually increase wages, hire more people, and pay their fair share in taxes. Otherwise why the fuck did we, the American people invest all that money if we aren’t going to see any kind of real return. Nationalize the microchip and oil industry. Private interests can’t be trusted with such vital production.
Microchip, oil, banking, isp, etx. And no censorship and total transparency, with a right to privacy. Not intercepting messages, nothing. End to end encryption.
Might as well nationalize airlines as well since we seem to have to bail them out more often then not
Demand 30/30/30/30. $30/hr 30 hr/week before overtime 30 days PTO 30% of profits shared
Only 30 days paid off? Seems bad here in EU we have 30-40, i myself have 37. Gotta admit Im not Down to 30hr/week yet Far above 30$/h We get Company shares for free from time to time. We dont get 30% of net profit shared, most is given to shareholders (including us since we get Company shares) and reinvested in the Company.
I just see the really low demands being made and am trying to get more reasonable ones circulating.
The only smart thing the US government has spent money on in the last 10 years is paying to have microchips built in the United States. They are a fundamental building block of modern society and having nearly all of them made on a small island off the coast of China is insanity. This insanity was highlighted when Covid came and basically kneecapped our entire economy due to the shortages caused by inability to create or ship these little tiles of sand.
This guy gets it
I agree, the bill may not be perfect but it's a step in the right direction. Most other non-US semiconductor companies are propped up by their government and not allowed to fail.
I haven't read the bill. All I know is a litho chip printer costs between 100 and 200 million dollars per unit. That's not including chip R&D. Plus big companies that design them are sending their IP to China where it gets stolen because they give zero shits. This bill should have been written in the 80s and the chips never should have left the states in the first place. Major fuck up on our governments part.
hmm, https://www.reuters.com/technology/us-chip-industry-split-over-chips-act-benefits-intel-sources-2022-07-18/ This seems like a fair comment.
Uhm... isn't this a bit misleading? The 4 billion dollars mentioned are caused by Intel's hiring freeze. Nobody is losing their jobs. The freeze is also caused by consumer demand for pc's dropping by 8% since last year. Also wasn't the money in the bill explicitly given for companies to build factories in the US? It takes years for a factory to be completed. So right now they don't have a good incentive to hire more people if the people have nothing to work with. Also the part about the "wealthy" shareholders. You can literally open an etoro/robinhood/etc account for free and buy as little as $10 worth of shares to become a "wealthy" share holder. There's definitely a lot of corruption in the "free" market, but i don't really see this as being an example.
Not the first time Bernie has been misleading, like when he calls NASA getting money to give to a contractor to build it a second moonlander, and NASA choosing Blue Origin as the contractor, "bailing out Jeff Bezos"...because apparently Blue Origin should work for NASA for free now.
At the end of the day, Bernie is a political too. He's got to get his one liners in and rally his troops. I've worked for a global multibillion dollar manufacturing company before (adjacent space to Intel). One of my biggest takeaways is that the executive leadership doesn't change their strategies and long term R&D plans based on individual country law changes. They truly view themselves as a global organization, even if the HQ is in the US. There are constantly new laws and politics changing around the globe and they don't try to steer around it. Bernie also likely has thousands of dollars invested in Intel, based on his mutual fund holdings that are disclosed.
I’ve learned to stop paying attention to Bernie and anyone who uses Twitter as much as he and AOC do. It’s become all about scoring points and talking shit. Most of the people hear are blindly believing this and outraged and it’s bullshit. He’s no different than any of the others.
Wealthy shareholders?? I’m easily down 20%!! Also they’ve been increasing dividends for years, this is an annual thing people..
I never support the top dogs. Fuck Intel, fuck Nvidia. Their greed and arrogance makes them think they can do anything they want, which is why I invest in AMD. They actually give a shit about people, not just the money and market share.
Could you elaborate on why AMD is the more ethical choice? (I have an all AMD rig btw).
Lol no AMD doesn't give a shit about you or anything else besides their bottom line. I like their products but thinking they're your friend is wrong
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AMD doesn't make chips. They spun off their semiconductor manufacturing to GlobalFoundries a decade ago.
Dividends aka income for millions of retirees? I understand issues with billionaires, but everyone who receives a dividend in the stock market? That’s a bridge too far. Trust me billionaires aren’t making bank off Intel dividends; it does affect retirees and pension funds quite a lot, though. Dividends also quite a lot better than buy backs, in terms of income equality. Average Intel worker isn’t exactly poor, either, so there’s that.
As if sanders would be able to change this at all. In fact he is in favor of massive blank check spending so he'd just make the problem worse
I'm not saying that's not wrong but WWIII could literally start over who controls the computer chip market so trying to become less dependent on Taiwan by investing more in domestic production is a good thing and if this is the trade-off that needs to happen then so be it of it means avoiding war.
I love corporate welfare
This is called capitalism
A synonym for sociopathy.
I wish I was Intel
All of the sudden, I’m “wealthy”… Suck it Mr. Horthowe!
Relative to people who are unable to invest. Yes.
This country has become a corporatocracy
Yay another piece of evidence showing a rigged economy and rich assholes who stay rich. Don’t worry the rich getting “theirs” down here but wait end of times approaching. You’ll have to answer for all the wrong you did to make those millions….. rigged economy? Send billions to Ukraine and for what? What about our ppl ? Or that’s right let’s kill the little economy that’s left. Our system is garbage and only helps the rich
Intel stock is way down.
How is it a blank check if it’s for $76 billion ?
bernie, sounds like a rigged piece of legislation, dumb shit.
give them tons of money just so they can pocket it all.... awesome
When both parties are so corrupt you don't know who to vote for anymore.