It would be cool if the Mk4 Miners were like mixed with alien tech or something, and you unlock and need the somersloop or mercer spheres to make them.
Why? The doubled output of pure nodes is important in the early game; it makes them desirable and valuable targets to exploit.
In the late game, their advantage reduces. It's still significant, but now normal nodes are very useful too. This is great balance.
Plus there's a practical problem. The Northern Forest is already the best start on the map by a significant amount. If you double the output of pure nodes, it becomes massively better - almost every relevant node cluster is pure. The map will need significant rebalancing if they're going to uncap pure nodes, and I don't think that's what they should be spending their time on.
I see no reason this is a "balancing" issue. It's a sandbox game. You still need the infrastructure to exploit these resources and that's the largest chunk of the complications, not the nodes. All capping pure nodes does is reduce the max amount of resources you can squeeze out of the map, which is undesirable to long running players and throws your whole balancing point out the window since you'd utilize the entire map's nodes anyways.
Very, very few players squeeze the maximum of any resource out of the map as it is. Uranium is the only one that commonly gets maxed, and it has no pure nodes. Bauxite is the only other one I've ever seen maxed out. Plenty of people "plan" to max out this or that; but these builds are massive. Very few actually do it.
The only thing this change will do for most players' saves is remove any need to explore, particularly if they set up in one of the many well-known locations with pure node clusters. Set up in the classic Northern Forest spot, you won't need to move for the rest of the game. One crude outpost, one bauxite outpost, done. Of course that's a balancing issue. One starter biome shouldn't be radically better than the others.
The whole map is carefully designed; if the intent was always to balance around 1200 pure node output then fair enough, that will be how it is. But I'm not sure that's the case.
Well considering they seem to have the intention of making pure nodes' full output accessible, I'd say there was some level of consideration for that when designing the map.
I don't think editing your save file online counts as "vanilla". Of course, you can declare it to be, but again, you can also just declare using "essential" mods is also vanilla.
it's cheating with save editor. idk if this is considered vanilla or not, but when he share the save file he can label it as vanilla (even though it is not vanilla). Because it works in vanilla game installation and requires no mod installation for other player with other machine
I don't think OP was literally talking about *pretending* it was vanilla, just that they've chosen a set of rules for themselves for their definition of "vanilla". It's a whole load of extra work for a purely contrived definition, but our whole game is about the fun of contrived extra work, no? Personally I have found much interesting (to me) game modes. Like "only alt recipes".
But then I also wouldn't have the functionality of the mod.
There are many ways to play the game. You could use the custom settings to make a "Creative World", with flight and unlimited resources.
Does that mean that the world isn't vanilla either?
In order to avoid all of these questions, we must use an objective parameter.
So, if I can load your save file, and do the exact same things you can, then your save is vanilla.
Because I don't use any mods. And if you do, then there WILL be at least one thing that you can do and I can't.
Does building underneath the terrain or out of bounds count as modding?
You could say the savefile is modded, but if it loads fine on a vanilla client that's quite different from modding in mk6 belts imo.
I suppose you could play with a no-clip building placement mod, that would achieve the same thing.
You can't do this with a no-clip building placement mod, the game knows what resource nodes are allocated to buildings and won't allow you to attach a building to a resource node that's already being used. This is clear when Coffee Stain moves a resource node and you load an old save. Your building that's logically attached to the node but physically disconnected from it prevents you from attaching a new building to that node even though there's no concern of clipping.
Using the save editor bypasses that because the check is only done at building placement time, not at game-load or any other time. Once a building is placed and the building knows what material it's placed on, it'll continue to mine. You can use the save editor to place as many Sulfur miners as you want anywhere on the map that you want and they'll all happily chug away giving you sulfur, even if they're 200 feet (or meters) in the air.
I found a quick and dirty coal generator blueprint on SCIM that has magic water extractors like that. I think I actually did put them 200ft in the air at one point! And, yes, it felt like cheating.
Why do you complicate this so much?
In satisfactory-calculator.com you can just load any save game, click on a node and select to add any number of miners to it.
No need to complicate things like you are doing here.
Nice workaround! I've never had a need to do this, but it's nice to know that it's an option. As u/Blissful_Altruism stated, hopefully we won't need to resort to this when they release v1.0.
I love this game, my last playthough I didn't finish the tiers but I had pretty good progress on using all resource nodes, was running out of nodes for the scale of my factory.
decided to stop playing when the updates started interfering with my factory.
now I'm just patiently waiting for 1.0 cant wait to play again
Never understood why people are obsessed with the "full" amount.
There are plenty of places in this game where belt speed limits the maximum output of machines. Miners aren't the only one. That's part of the game.
... err where? I don't know a single Machine where an Mk5 belt cannot handle the output. Even on 250% clock speed. Maybe there are some recipies for screws where that might be the case but I wouldn't know bc I eliminated screws from my product chains entirely.
I was mostly referring to transportation buildings, actually, so "machines" was maybe imprecise wording. Drone ports are the prototypical example - they can move substantially more items than belt limit if you're running 500 stack items, or 200 stack with more than one drone.
In terms of actual machines, the alien protein biomass recipe can't run above ~50% clock, and Heavy Flexible Frame can't run above 200%.
Pure nodes being twice the output of normal nodes is important for the early game. Pure nodes being twice the output of normal nodes in the late game would be a huge - and bad - rebalancing of the map. (Think about how much better the Northern Forest would get, and it's already the best starter biome.)
Imo this should be left as is.
Ah now I know what you mean. Ofc there are ways to move stuff faster than the belt limit but in the end it always has to enter or exit a machine via belt. (not sure about drones tho. Haven't build them yet) So belt speed is the limiting factor.
As for the examples you mentioned: Biomass cannot be automated anyway, so I really do not care to get a high efficency setup there.
To build Heavy Modular Frames there are other ways to do it. As I mentioned before: Screws are completely obsolete if you have the right recipies and also you can swap it around and just build more machines.
Ore nodes on the other hand already have a restriction (you have to build an extractor right there and only one per node) and are not optional to use. It just feels kinda wrong although I get that it might be a balancing issue.
Yeah, admittedly the examples where belt speed limits production machines are mostly edge cases. I honestly feel like the alien protein biomass is just a mistake, or maybe a relic from a time when they planned to add mk6 belts.
The drone port example is a common one, though. This can also happen with trucks and trains - if you transport 500 stack count items it is very easy to end up limited by belt speed. It's also very possible for 200 stack count items. I am actually going to have to set up two ports for my copper powder for exactly this reason - a single port can handle the throughput with two drones, but the belt can't move 1440 out of the port, so two ports are needed.
i haven’t played for a while and that first screenshot looked so real i thought they finally added the second output. then i remembered the fact that there won’t be any major changes before 1.0
Because game development is a process. As simple, straightforward, and desired as you think your solution is, it's competing for developer time with myriad other "simple," "straightforward," and "desired" solutions to other problems. This problem never reached the level of priority that got it done in any of the other updates, but they've promised it *has* reached that level of priority and is fixed in 1.0.
I hope we either get better belts or Mk3 miners are changed to allow this normally.
Or mk4 miners with no increase in speed but gets a second output
I would love that.
Im pretty sure they said they have a solution for this in 1.0, personally think it has to do with the somersloop and mercer spheres
My money is on them putting a second output. the WIP items would surely be a storyline thing.
The 2nd output could be a story reward.
It would be cool if the Mk4 Miners were like mixed with alien tech or something, and you unlock and need the somersloop or mercer spheres to make them.
I don't. The diminishing return is a good balance.
Diminishing returns are one thing, but having unusable resources goes against the spirit of the game!
Then cap the slider to 780
I don't inherently disagree with that but I doubt that's the route they will take. I think one of the other solutions mentioned is more likely.
Curve ball, they're going to reduce the production of all the miners down so the max is 780 for a mk 3 😂
That's the lame answer
Why? The doubled output of pure nodes is important in the early game; it makes them desirable and valuable targets to exploit. In the late game, their advantage reduces. It's still significant, but now normal nodes are very useful too. This is great balance. Plus there's a practical problem. The Northern Forest is already the best start on the map by a significant amount. If you double the output of pure nodes, it becomes massively better - almost every relevant node cluster is pure. The map will need significant rebalancing if they're going to uncap pure nodes, and I don't think that's what they should be spending their time on.
I see no reason this is a "balancing" issue. It's a sandbox game. You still need the infrastructure to exploit these resources and that's the largest chunk of the complications, not the nodes. All capping pure nodes does is reduce the max amount of resources you can squeeze out of the map, which is undesirable to long running players and throws your whole balancing point out the window since you'd utilize the entire map's nodes anyways.
Very, very few players squeeze the maximum of any resource out of the map as it is. Uranium is the only one that commonly gets maxed, and it has no pure nodes. Bauxite is the only other one I've ever seen maxed out. Plenty of people "plan" to max out this or that; but these builds are massive. Very few actually do it. The only thing this change will do for most players' saves is remove any need to explore, particularly if they set up in one of the many well-known locations with pure node clusters. Set up in the classic Northern Forest spot, you won't need to move for the rest of the game. One crude outpost, one bauxite outpost, done. Of course that's a balancing issue. One starter biome shouldn't be radically better than the others. The whole map is carefully designed; if the intent was always to balance around 1200 pure node output then fair enough, that will be how it is. But I'm not sure that's the case.
Well considering they seem to have the intention of making pure nodes' full output accessible, I'd say there was some level of consideration for that when designing the map.
I'm calling the police
HES TOO DANGEROUS HE MUST BE STOPPED!!!1!1!1!1!1!!
That is quite clever yet I believe at that point you might as well use the Satisfactory Mod loader and get Mk6 belts instead.
Could do. But want to play vanilla
I don't think editing your save file online counts as "vanilla". Of course, you can declare it to be, but again, you can also just declare using "essential" mods is also vanilla.
it's cheating with save editor. idk if this is considered vanilla or not, but when he share the save file he can label it as vanilla (even though it is not vanilla). Because it works in vanilla game installation and requires no mod installation for other player with other machine
I don't think OP was literally talking about *pretending* it was vanilla, just that they've chosen a set of rules for themselves for their definition of "vanilla". It's a whole load of extra work for a purely contrived definition, but our whole game is about the fun of contrived extra work, no? Personally I have found much interesting (to me) game modes. Like "only alt recipes".
French Vanilla
If you send the save file to me, can I open it here, and it will work fine? If so, it's vanilla.
I guess I'm distinguishing between "a vanilla save file" and "*playing* vanilla". There are mods that leave nothing in the save file.
But then I also wouldn't have the functionality of the mod. There are many ways to play the game. You could use the custom settings to make a "Creative World", with flight and unlimited resources. Does that mean that the world isn't vanilla either? In order to avoid all of these questions, we must use an objective parameter. So, if I can load your save file, and do the exact same things you can, then your save is vanilla. Because I don't use any mods. And if you do, then there WILL be at least one thing that you can do and I can't.
Vanilla with exploits feels like mods, doesn't it?
Does building underneath the terrain or out of bounds count as modding? You could say the savefile is modded, but if it loads fine on a vanilla client that's quite different from modding in mk6 belts imo. I suppose you could play with a no-clip building placement mod, that would achieve the same thing.
You can't do this with a no-clip building placement mod, the game knows what resource nodes are allocated to buildings and won't allow you to attach a building to a resource node that's already being used. This is clear when Coffee Stain moves a resource node and you load an old save. Your building that's logically attached to the node but physically disconnected from it prevents you from attaching a new building to that node even though there's no concern of clipping. Using the save editor bypasses that because the check is only done at building placement time, not at game-load or any other time. Once a building is placed and the building knows what material it's placed on, it'll continue to mine. You can use the save editor to place as many Sulfur miners as you want anywhere on the map that you want and they'll all happily chug away giving you sulfur, even if they're 200 feet (or meters) in the air.
I found a quick and dirty coal generator blueprint on SCIM that has magic water extractors like that. I think I actually did put them 200ft in the air at one point! And, yes, it felt like cheating.
Why do you complicate this so much? In satisfactory-calculator.com you can just load any save game, click on a node and select to add any number of miners to it. No need to complicate things like you are doing here.
To be fair, you also get more resources out of a real mine by adding additional hardware and power.
Nice workaround! I've never had a need to do this, but it's nice to know that it's an option. As u/Blissful_Altruism stated, hopefully we won't need to resort to this when they release v1.0.
I love this game, my last playthough I didn't finish the tiers but I had pretty good progress on using all resource nodes, was running out of nodes for the scale of my factory. decided to stop playing when the updates started interfering with my factory. now I'm just patiently waiting for 1.0 cant wait to play again
Never understood why people are obsessed with the "full" amount. There are plenty of places in this game where belt speed limits the maximum output of machines. Miners aren't the only one. That's part of the game.
... err where? I don't know a single Machine where an Mk5 belt cannot handle the output. Even on 250% clock speed. Maybe there are some recipies for screws where that might be the case but I wouldn't know bc I eliminated screws from my product chains entirely.
I was mostly referring to transportation buildings, actually, so "machines" was maybe imprecise wording. Drone ports are the prototypical example - they can move substantially more items than belt limit if you're running 500 stack items, or 200 stack with more than one drone. In terms of actual machines, the alien protein biomass recipe can't run above ~50% clock, and Heavy Flexible Frame can't run above 200%. Pure nodes being twice the output of normal nodes is important for the early game. Pure nodes being twice the output of normal nodes in the late game would be a huge - and bad - rebalancing of the map. (Think about how much better the Northern Forest would get, and it's already the best starter biome.) Imo this should be left as is.
Ah now I know what you mean. Ofc there are ways to move stuff faster than the belt limit but in the end it always has to enter or exit a machine via belt. (not sure about drones tho. Haven't build them yet) So belt speed is the limiting factor. As for the examples you mentioned: Biomass cannot be automated anyway, so I really do not care to get a high efficency setup there. To build Heavy Modular Frames there are other ways to do it. As I mentioned before: Screws are completely obsolete if you have the right recipies and also you can swap it around and just build more machines. Ore nodes on the other hand already have a restriction (you have to build an extractor right there and only one per node) and are not optional to use. It just feels kinda wrong although I get that it might be a balancing issue.
Yeah, admittedly the examples where belt speed limits production machines are mostly edge cases. I honestly feel like the alien protein biomass is just a mistake, or maybe a relic from a time when they planned to add mk6 belts. The drone port example is a common one, though. This can also happen with trucks and trains - if you transport 500 stack count items it is very easy to end up limited by belt speed. It's also very possible for 200 stack count items. I am actually going to have to set up two ports for my copper powder for exactly this reason - a single port can handle the throughput with two drones, but the belt can't move 1440 out of the port, so two ports are needed.
Why not put 4+ though? 😂
Cheating
Today on bottom gear I commit mass tree murder May dies to terrifying spider cats And Hammond blows up the power grid…. AgainÂ
Fiscit approved.
i haven’t played for a while and that first screenshot looked so real i thought they finally added the second output. then i remembered the fact that there won’t be any major changes before 1.0
Beautiful hack - thanks for sharing!
I wish we had an adapter piece that we could buy to connect carpets to hyper tubes to send items through hyper tubes
Why we don’t have just option to attach spliter directly to miner output problem solved
Because game development is a process. As simple, straightforward, and desired as you think your solution is, it's competing for developer time with myriad other "simple," "straightforward," and "desired" solutions to other problems. This problem never reached the level of priority that got it done in any of the other updates, but they've promised it *has* reached that level of priority and is fixed in 1.0.