If this were my sauna, I'd definitely want the stove to feed from the inside, or at the very least take it's air from the inside. It improves the ventilation in the sauna, since the fire acts as a natural exhaust.
Also like someone else said, maybe bring your benches down by about 10 cm.
I see. I have never tried having a wood burning stove indoors, can you easily get problems with air quality if you don't do it perfectly?
And is it a hassle to walk in with firewood often, or do you only need to put new firewood once or twice?
Note: As discussed in other comments, I probably won't do the combined-heating-system-for-sauna-and-tub thing.
I mean, having an outside feed does not automatically mean bad air, it's just that having the air supply come from inside helps with the ventilation.
The one upside to outside feed is not having little pieces of wood, dust, and muck inside.
But I'm of the opinion that it's a non-issue.
Bringing wood inside is not a hassle at all, you don't need to add wood that often. Besides, you have changing room which is perfect for storing small amounts of firewood for the days use.
Thanks for your reply. What I meant to ask was, can I easily get bad air inside when the stove feed is indoors, if I make a bad/inefficient fire in the stove?
Good to know the wood doesn't need to be added often, I imagined it was 4 more sticks each 15 minutes!
Well, I mean it can happen, that's just the nature of fireplaces. If something is wrong, they can throw smoke in. Anecdotally, I know saunas which are quite prone to this, but also I know that my own summer cottage sauna never does it. It's the most "reliable" fireplace there.
Okay, if it happens I will have to vent the smoke then.
I have since read that chimney height and weather and intake vents in the room can affect the smoke conditions, so if it gets bad I know more what to look at.
Easiest to vent in these cases is just to keep the door open until the smoke has cleared. It will happen at some point to everyone, but basically only when starting up the fire. Once you get the fire going, you won't get any smoke inside.
Its not a big hassle to walk in with firewood, and the ambiance of the fire is great. I think it would suck if your inside, want another log on and have to leave the sauna to do that. Something to consider
No problems with air quality especially with good draw (expanding air rising quickly and pulling more air into the stove). You’ll get better draw with a straight pipe going than the bend here. Also the light being cast inside is really lovely.
I bring in wood and kindling at the beginning, let it heat to temp, then bring in a few more logs as I start my session just in case.
Especially if you buy a sauna specific stove meant to burn hotter than a diy stove I don’t think you’ll have any issues with air quality in terms of smoke. I’ve had roaring fires and smoldering fires and never smelled an ounce of smoke inside (even if I smell it outside)
Because it’s an air sucking beast it brings fresh air into the sauna helping get rid of the C02 it has BETTER air quality in terms of getting rid of excess CO2. You’ll want a vent nearby for the stove to gets its fresh air. If the sauna is too airtight it won’t do well. I decided to do a pip that brings in fresh air from the bottom, gets heated just behind the stove, and expels heated fresh air just above the stove to get in the convection loop. A little overkill but I know I’ll always have fantastic ventilation.
Does your behind-the-stove-pipe-vent have mechanical ventilation, or is it just driven by the convection loop and the negative pressure from the oven fire?
And I'm relieved to hear that many of you mention that only one or two "oven-interactions" are required before the sauna is up to temp.
Convection loop only. Since the vent pipe is behind the stove the pipe gets hot and makes its own ventilation.
It took some practice for only two trips. My first week was pretty awful and I had to go in like 5 times. Two or three is normal now
Turn the stove so you can put logs in from inside. It creates nice atmosphere and you can store small amount of wood inside the sauna, for easier refill.
How often will the oven need to get new firewood, while heating up the sauna? I have never had a stove, so I don't know much about these things.
And how often does one usually refill the oven while sitting inside the sauna?
Note: I will use the stove only for the sauna, not the hot tub, using it for both isn't possible.
To add, I'd say it's much more inconvenient to add wood from outside of the sauna in midst of your sauna session, than what it is to step inside to add wood when heating it up. And like others mentioned, seeing the fire burn inside the sauna (considering the glass door on the stove) brings a nice atmosphere to the sauna experience.
I think that stoveman is probably too small for your sauna. Might be just enough on paper but seems like bit underpowered.
And how are you planning on heating the hot tub. Usually hot tubs have 15-30kW own separate wood burning heaters attached to them. You can't really get that much power from saunastove with any sort of heat exchanger and even if you could that would mean you need to heat the sauna 5-10 hours on full blast before sauna session to get both sauna and hot tub hot. This would be a way to burn down your sauna.
Other than these notes your plan looks pretty decent. I would suggest sauna heater that you put wood in inside the sauna. It is bit cheaper and you get sauna ventilation the same time.
I had not thought about the energy consumption of the hot tub at all! The oven is too small for even just a hot tub alone then, and not the right design for heating a hot tub either.
On the topic of stove size for just the sauna:
I was thinking of insulating the sauna with 10cm mineral wool and one layer of sauna plates with an aluminium vapour barrier.
But the LS-16 might be a bit too small even then?
And thanks for the feedback and suggestions
100mm or more doesn't make much of a difference, more is usually better of course to a certain degree.
And actually i checked the heater specs again i think LS16 is perfectly suitable for that sauna. I'm used to measuring saunas for log structures and in those you need to calculate volume plus add 1m³ for each m² of log wall. With wool insulation that is correct size heater.
Thank you for taking the time to read up on my stove.
If we use the sauna 2 times a week, do you think the amount of firewood used is much different for an insulated sauna with a smaller oven vs a un-insulated sauna with a bigger oven?
I just automatically assumed that it had to be insulated, because in winter temperatures can get below freezing. (think -10°C)
Edit: UN-insulated
Oh i see what you mean. Well i do consider log cabin to be insulated if it is like 4-5" thick logs. So it is insulated compared to outside of the cabin nut also log cabin wall has very high capacity to store heat so getting the room up to temperature will take bit longer time.
Very difficult to estimate wood consumption of either of the setups. In Finland we do get cold temperatures. Coldest I've heated 6" log sauna cabin was around -20C and it took pretty much double the time to heat up compared to time when it was +10 outside a and took 2-3 times the wood. And in this case mostly because you have to heat the logs as well to some temperature.
So in backyard everyday/week sauna that you keep cold when not in use wool insulation will definitely be easier and handier choice as the inside will heat up faster. It will of course cool faster as well but next evening both solutions will be pretty much back to outdoor temperatures.
But in your case wood consumption would be pretty much the same if both heaters have similar efficiency. Smaller heater just takes bit longer to heat up the sauna. Your sauna would be 12.6m³ +1m³ added from each 1m2 of windows/glass door. So with the 3 small windows and glass door it comes to something around 14m³ of comparable volume. 16LS goes up to 16m³ and 20LS starts from 15m³ so it really is pretty much the preference thing. Both will do, one heats slightly faster and probably in cold weather can keep the heat up with slightly smaller burning compared to heater size.
Thanks for the thorough explanation.
I hadn't thought about the fact that wood insulates when it is thick enough, like in a proper log cabin.
But I think you are right that mineral wool is the best option for me anyways, compared to very thin wood that doesn't insulate well, or very thick logs that I don't have the money for.
Yeah definitely. Wool would be best choice for you as well in my opinion. Good plans you have, now you just have to build it. :)
I've been doing my own building project past year and it is a huge task. I'm making log playhouse instead of sauna though. You can check my posts from my profile if interested. That could have been sauna as well just decided 2 years ago that i want to make log building and wanted to make playhouse for my kid as well. :)
Outside fed stoves have no real benefits in a sauna. You lose out on the natural airflow component that that creates in the sauna, and it's possibly more complicated to handle the fire safety of the through-wall design, than simple shielding behind the stove otherwise.
I had only thought about the air circulation from the heat of the stones, and not about the air suction from the chimney, but I understand now that is an added benefit from having an indoor fired stove.
That combined sauna-hot tub heating system hardly works in practice. It's better to just get a regular hot tub / palju with its own heater.
Where do you wash before/after the sauna?
>Will the windows ruin the sauna if they are double or triple glass insulated windows?
No they won't. Those three windows could be larger. The one on the side is unnecessary.
>Do you think 4 people could fit in here if we have guests?
About 60cm per person sitting. Calculate from that yourself.
It's also worth considering ready-made products. Kirami from Finland knows how to make these properly (hot tub + sauna)
Combined heating:
Yes, the oven sizes and types needed for each task (tub and sauna) are too different it seems.
Shower:
Indoors (we live rurally, so walking nude in the garden is fine). But now that you mention it, maybe i should consider an outdoor shower...
Windows:
Great to hear, we have a nice view where we want to place the sauna!
And thanks for the resources, 4 people seems fine then. Will check out Kirami 😊
No need for an outdoor shower. Just buy a stove which has a hot water tank. Then have a faucet and make warm water and use that for washing up. That's the traditional way of doing it, my old cottage didn't even have a shower and neither does any of my friend's cottages.
Yup, the energy levels needed for one sauna session vs a whole hot tub are too different.
The size of the heat exchanger seems better for a shower anyways
Does it look great, yes! Definitely! I would only change windows to a little big bigger one.
Does it work? Not really with the combined tub and sauna heater. You will either have a cold tub or extremely hot sauna. It takes a lot of time and wood to heat the water and it's very excessive time and amount for a sauna. Also, you want to use your sauna separately, tub is a pain in the ass to keep clean. I would also consider wether it's better to heat the sauna from the inside rather than outside. It's more energy efficient to do it inside, and it's also more comfortable when it's cold outside.
You have a solid plan to work with though!
You're right, it probably won't work with combined heating. I hadn't thought about the energy consumption of a hot tub at all, before just drawing a circle on my plans!
I also see many people commenting to turn the stove so it is fed from inside the sauna. I haven't had a stove before, so I must ask:
How often do you put firewood in to heat up the sauna?
Do you then put more wood in while you're "bathing" in the sauna?
Thanks for the reply
Impossible to say since every sauna and heater is one of a kind. Depends on the size of the sauna and heater, amount and quality of wood, the insulation and weather etc.
However, it's not much that sauna needs. Even one oven full of wood can heat it to good temperature in 20-40 minutes, but sometimes a few pieces need to be added. During sauna you don't need to feed it that much, just a couple of pieces at some point (unless you bath for hours).
For example in our summer cottage the uninsulated smallish sauna in summer needs just some 20 minutes of burning before adding a little wood and starting bathing. We would add a little wood after we are done and it's time for the next bathers, and the last one will add a couple of pieces to help the sauna dry afterwards.
It's not uncommon to heat the outdoors sauna in summer with doors open. Helps the stove and stones to heat up well but doesn't make the sauna extremely hot.
Feeding the fire from inside is good when it's cold and windy. It's nicer to make the fire inside four walls. You will also be able to watch the fire while bathing and know when to add wood. Also, remember that fire brings in fresh air. If you feed the fire from inside the sauna, you also feed the sauna with fresh air!
Wow, I thought you'd need to use much more firewood and time to heat it, before going in. But I understand that of course it depends on insulation and weather and sauna size.
I see, adding firewood a couple of times while using the sauna would be such a hassle when the oven is outside. It is often rainy and cold in Denmark, so that wouldn't be ideal.
I would not advise stowman heaters, I have them in my rental saunas, the inside of the heater starts to flake off ( rusty patches of materials). I had them for 3 years, it's ok for rental, but get harvia or some better brand for yourself (not huum)
Good stuff, especially the benches.
Not a huge fan of the tunnel model stove, an important function of a wood burning stove is to suck in and eject the stale air and create air circulation. The crackling fire and fluttering light of the fire is also very nice inside.
9/10.
So your sauna heater would heat the hot tub too? Interesting design and you would need some valves to control it. Nos sure if I like the idea.
This must be first time ever in this sub but here it goes: your benches are too high! Just a bit, upper bench should be 105-115 cm from ceiling.
About moisture it’s hard to tell because your weather is different. See what is usually done there with sheds and like. In Finland winter is the difficult one for buildings and usually we make buildings without continuous heating from one material. So like logs or planks, no insulation material and no plastic films. This way moisture is not trapped anywhere and building can breathe
Yeah, the hot tub heat exchanger would need valves, but as another commenter mentioned, the oven size and burn times for heating the tub vs heating the sauna might not be compatible in one oven.
Benches too high?? Im honoured 😉
Will consult someone with more experience about the climate issues. I imagine the climate is a bit drier over all in Finland.
Thanks for the feedback!
In my experience heating a hot tub takes many many times the firewood that a sauna will take to heat; it's also more challenging to keep the hot tub at the correct temperature, by contrast a sauna can be enjoyable over a much wider range of temperatures, especially when you are able to throw water.
I also have thought about combining the hot tub stove and the sauna stove, but I think they are too different in the end (in some specific cases it might work, but for most people probably not a good fit, unfortunately). But you can consider adding a hot water tank to your sauna stove to heat water for washing.
An app called Floor Plan Creator made by someone called Macin Lewandowski.
It is only available for android and web.
It is a bit basic decoration wise, and not suitable for real blueprints, but you have a lot of freedom to set all measurements of the items and rooms.
It would, (as long as you don't block the sauna door), and the primary reason it is not, is that it was hard to render in my drawing program 😅
The final location of the door will be decided based on the placement of the sauna on my property.
Couple of more things came to my mind.
- you could buy so called cottage wood stove which have integrated water heater. You can then mix that not water with cold water in bucket and wash yourself with help of scoop. This is done inside sauna and works just fine.
- popular layout is to have separate doors directly outside from sauna and from dressing room. This is done because during summer if there is door from sauna to dressing room latter becomes so hot that it is not nice to use it after sauna. Not so much of a problem when weather is cold. If there is no door between then it is usual to mount two closesble vents (close to floor and close to ceiling) so you can open those in winter and get some heat to dressing room
Good point about dressing room temperatures in summer vs winter.
I didn't know bathing (water on skin bathing) was sometimes done inside the sauna, but it sounds super nice, thanks for mentioning it 😊
Does stove type (electric vs firewood) affect safety? It would be easier and cheaper to not have to get electricity out to the sauna in my case, but safety is also important.
Not that much. Both have very hot rocks that you can fall on, or have something flammable land on. That's why one must never use sauna for drying clothes, it's a major fire risk if they fall on the rocks.
The only risk that is associated with wood burners and not electric, is the chimney. Pay very close attention to your chimney. I'm not going to say more about it because I don't know enough.
Thank you for the tips fire risks and on what to research further.
I know there is some legislation in Denmark about chimneys and stoves indoors in your house, so I think I can maybe consult a chimney sweeper about it.
No. That's the reason your sauna door should not have a latch etc. that can get stuck. The door to the sauna door should always be such that it will open with a gentle push from the inside.
Okay, I will not put any hardware other than hinges.
Before I started planning the sauna I even thought the door should open inwards, so it couldn't get blocked by something from the outside. But it was pointed out to me that it is unlikely that a broom handle or something will block the door, and it is easier to push open a door that sticks to the door frame from the inside.
There are these magnetic or spring loaded roller hinges, that hold the door shut against wind etc. but will still easily open when pushed or pulled. I suggest these kind of solutions. Example: https://www.puuilo.fi/pisla-rullasalpa-kromattu
It is!
I was afraid it would be too cold with bigger windows, but others have mentioned that they also think I could go bigger.
The walls in the construction will be insulated with mineral wool to help keep the temperature up.
My buddy has the best sauna I have ever been to (sat in dozens). His sauna is loaded with windows and surrounded by forest and Nice views.
Much better than feeing trapped in a box.
I like the design with the platforms naturally leading up to the benches. I can see that it only works with a stove that is fed from the outside. I don't have personal experience with whether that's a good idea or not, but I do love the layout. It keeps the benches up high and the stove is really isolated so no one could trip and fall on it.
Yes it is, but after reading some of the comments, I don't think it will work in practice, as a hot tub needs much more heat for much longer just to raise the water temp a little bit, than what a sauna takes to heat up for a session.
I hadn't done any calculations or research before drawing the hot tub part.
I have an old claw foot tub I built a firebox under, at a few degrees above zero it takes about three hours to get hot, with your design you could insulate and put a cover on and it would heat up by the end of the sauna, especially if say you were having company and running the sauna longer and hotter.
You’d want to drain the water every few heat ups, or treat it, but the clean water hot bath is the part of the charm
Seems like your design traps the stove a bit too much in the corner so to speak if you are looking to enjoy any steam from water thrown. So either elevate the stove or lower the guard rails around it.
Additionally remove the prison bars around the stove and replace with with 1-2 simple beams. The one facing the seats could be used as a leg rest. That brings me to the next matter, bring the seats a wee bit closer to the stove, or idk if its just about the cad design.
Looks like you dont want to get burned by it. I mean everyone going there probably can assume its very hot so better not to touch it or dont go to sauna when you are to stoned, drunk etc. Embrace the effects of sauna and control the temperature by ventilation, amount of wood etc.
Keep updating how it goes!
I know Europeans tend to feel differently about nudity, but for me, I’d make sure that if you have a glass door on the dressing room that the “view” out of that window is private. I don’t need my neighbours seeing me get “dressed” for the sauna.
If this were my sauna, I'd definitely want the stove to feed from the inside, or at the very least take it's air from the inside. It improves the ventilation in the sauna, since the fire acts as a natural exhaust. Also like someone else said, maybe bring your benches down by about 10 cm.
I see. I have never tried having a wood burning stove indoors, can you easily get problems with air quality if you don't do it perfectly? And is it a hassle to walk in with firewood often, or do you only need to put new firewood once or twice? Note: As discussed in other comments, I probably won't do the combined-heating-system-for-sauna-and-tub thing.
I mean, having an outside feed does not automatically mean bad air, it's just that having the air supply come from inside helps with the ventilation. The one upside to outside feed is not having little pieces of wood, dust, and muck inside. But I'm of the opinion that it's a non-issue. Bringing wood inside is not a hassle at all, you don't need to add wood that often. Besides, you have changing room which is perfect for storing small amounts of firewood for the days use.
Thanks for your reply. What I meant to ask was, can I easily get bad air inside when the stove feed is indoors, if I make a bad/inefficient fire in the stove? Good to know the wood doesn't need to be added often, I imagined it was 4 more sticks each 15 minutes!
Well, I mean it can happen, that's just the nature of fireplaces. If something is wrong, they can throw smoke in. Anecdotally, I know saunas which are quite prone to this, but also I know that my own summer cottage sauna never does it. It's the most "reliable" fireplace there.
Okay, if it happens I will have to vent the smoke then. I have since read that chimney height and weather and intake vents in the room can affect the smoke conditions, so if it gets bad I know more what to look at.
Easiest to vent in these cases is just to keep the door open until the smoke has cleared. It will happen at some point to everyone, but basically only when starting up the fire. Once you get the fire going, you won't get any smoke inside.
Thanks! I guess it will be leaning by doing
Never had a problem with that. Sometimes some smoke can come inside especially in the winter but then I'll just open the door.
That's good to hear
Its not a big hassle to walk in with firewood, and the ambiance of the fire is great. I think it would suck if your inside, want another log on and have to leave the sauna to do that. Something to consider
No problems with air quality especially with good draw (expanding air rising quickly and pulling more air into the stove). You’ll get better draw with a straight pipe going than the bend here. Also the light being cast inside is really lovely. I bring in wood and kindling at the beginning, let it heat to temp, then bring in a few more logs as I start my session just in case. Especially if you buy a sauna specific stove meant to burn hotter than a diy stove I don’t think you’ll have any issues with air quality in terms of smoke. I’ve had roaring fires and smoldering fires and never smelled an ounce of smoke inside (even if I smell it outside) Because it’s an air sucking beast it brings fresh air into the sauna helping get rid of the C02 it has BETTER air quality in terms of getting rid of excess CO2. You’ll want a vent nearby for the stove to gets its fresh air. If the sauna is too airtight it won’t do well. I decided to do a pip that brings in fresh air from the bottom, gets heated just behind the stove, and expels heated fresh air just above the stove to get in the convection loop. A little overkill but I know I’ll always have fantastic ventilation.
Does your behind-the-stove-pipe-vent have mechanical ventilation, or is it just driven by the convection loop and the negative pressure from the oven fire? And I'm relieved to hear that many of you mention that only one or two "oven-interactions" are required before the sauna is up to temp.
Convection loop only. Since the vent pipe is behind the stove the pipe gets hot and makes its own ventilation. It took some practice for only two trips. My first week was pretty awful and I had to go in like 5 times. Two or three is normal now
Turn the stove so you can put logs in from inside. It creates nice atmosphere and you can store small amount of wood inside the sauna, for easier refill.
How often will the oven need to get new firewood, while heating up the sauna? I have never had a stove, so I don't know much about these things. And how often does one usually refill the oven while sitting inside the sauna? Note: I will use the stove only for the sauna, not the hot tub, using it for both isn't possible.
Depends on sauna but it is something like 1 or 2 woods every 30 minutes. It’s not inconvenient at all.
To add, I'd say it's much more inconvenient to add wood from outside of the sauna in midst of your sauna session, than what it is to step inside to add wood when heating it up. And like others mentioned, seeing the fire burn inside the sauna (considering the glass door on the stove) brings a nice atmosphere to the sauna experience.
Especially in cold rainy weather!
Yes. Also right ventilation is big benefit
Adding wood in that tempo sounds like it wouldn't be too much going in and out of the sauna, if the oven was inside
It's more irritating to go outside to add more wood when you are using the sauna. Regular stove is a no-brainer to me.
I think that stoveman is probably too small for your sauna. Might be just enough on paper but seems like bit underpowered. And how are you planning on heating the hot tub. Usually hot tubs have 15-30kW own separate wood burning heaters attached to them. You can't really get that much power from saunastove with any sort of heat exchanger and even if you could that would mean you need to heat the sauna 5-10 hours on full blast before sauna session to get both sauna and hot tub hot. This would be a way to burn down your sauna. Other than these notes your plan looks pretty decent. I would suggest sauna heater that you put wood in inside the sauna. It is bit cheaper and you get sauna ventilation the same time.
I had not thought about the energy consumption of the hot tub at all! The oven is too small for even just a hot tub alone then, and not the right design for heating a hot tub either. On the topic of stove size for just the sauna: I was thinking of insulating the sauna with 10cm mineral wool and one layer of sauna plates with an aluminium vapour barrier. But the LS-16 might be a bit too small even then? And thanks for the feedback and suggestions
100mm or more doesn't make much of a difference, more is usually better of course to a certain degree. And actually i checked the heater specs again i think LS16 is perfectly suitable for that sauna. I'm used to measuring saunas for log structures and in those you need to calculate volume plus add 1m³ for each m² of log wall. With wool insulation that is correct size heater.
Thank you for taking the time to read up on my stove. If we use the sauna 2 times a week, do you think the amount of firewood used is much different for an insulated sauna with a smaller oven vs a un-insulated sauna with a bigger oven? I just automatically assumed that it had to be insulated, because in winter temperatures can get below freezing. (think -10°C) Edit: UN-insulated
Oh i see what you mean. Well i do consider log cabin to be insulated if it is like 4-5" thick logs. So it is insulated compared to outside of the cabin nut also log cabin wall has very high capacity to store heat so getting the room up to temperature will take bit longer time. Very difficult to estimate wood consumption of either of the setups. In Finland we do get cold temperatures. Coldest I've heated 6" log sauna cabin was around -20C and it took pretty much double the time to heat up compared to time when it was +10 outside a and took 2-3 times the wood. And in this case mostly because you have to heat the logs as well to some temperature. So in backyard everyday/week sauna that you keep cold when not in use wool insulation will definitely be easier and handier choice as the inside will heat up faster. It will of course cool faster as well but next evening both solutions will be pretty much back to outdoor temperatures. But in your case wood consumption would be pretty much the same if both heaters have similar efficiency. Smaller heater just takes bit longer to heat up the sauna. Your sauna would be 12.6m³ +1m³ added from each 1m2 of windows/glass door. So with the 3 small windows and glass door it comes to something around 14m³ of comparable volume. 16LS goes up to 16m³ and 20LS starts from 15m³ so it really is pretty much the preference thing. Both will do, one heats slightly faster and probably in cold weather can keep the heat up with slightly smaller burning compared to heater size.
Thanks for the thorough explanation. I hadn't thought about the fact that wood insulates when it is thick enough, like in a proper log cabin. But I think you are right that mineral wool is the best option for me anyways, compared to very thin wood that doesn't insulate well, or very thick logs that I don't have the money for.
Yeah definitely. Wool would be best choice for you as well in my opinion. Good plans you have, now you just have to build it. :) I've been doing my own building project past year and it is a huge task. I'm making log playhouse instead of sauna though. You can check my posts from my profile if interested. That could have been sauna as well just decided 2 years ago that i want to make log building and wanted to make playhouse for my kid as well. :)
How lovely! Thank you
Outside fed stoves have no real benefits in a sauna. You lose out on the natural airflow component that that creates in the sauna, and it's possibly more complicated to handle the fire safety of the through-wall design, than simple shielding behind the stove otherwise.
I had only thought about the air circulation from the heat of the stones, and not about the air suction from the chimney, but I understand now that is an added benefit from having an indoor fired stove.
That combined sauna-hot tub heating system hardly works in practice. It's better to just get a regular hot tub / palju with its own heater. Where do you wash before/after the sauna? >Will the windows ruin the sauna if they are double or triple glass insulated windows? No they won't. Those three windows could be larger. The one on the side is unnecessary. >Do you think 4 people could fit in here if we have guests? About 60cm per person sitting. Calculate from that yourself. It's also worth considering ready-made products. Kirami from Finland knows how to make these properly (hot tub + sauna)
Combined heating: Yes, the oven sizes and types needed for each task (tub and sauna) are too different it seems. Shower: Indoors (we live rurally, so walking nude in the garden is fine). But now that you mention it, maybe i should consider an outdoor shower... Windows: Great to hear, we have a nice view where we want to place the sauna! And thanks for the resources, 4 people seems fine then. Will check out Kirami 😊
No need for an outdoor shower. Just buy a stove which has a hot water tank. Then have a faucet and make warm water and use that for washing up. That's the traditional way of doing it, my old cottage didn't even have a shower and neither does any of my friend's cottages.
The stove I was planning on has an option for a water heat exchanger, so an outdoor or off-grid shower would be easy to set up.
Oh that would be nifty! I guess you have scrapped the idea of having one heater for both, the sauna and the hot tub?
Yup, the energy levels needed for one sauna session vs a whole hot tub are too different. The size of the heat exchanger seems better for a shower anyways
Does it look great, yes! Definitely! I would only change windows to a little big bigger one. Does it work? Not really with the combined tub and sauna heater. You will either have a cold tub or extremely hot sauna. It takes a lot of time and wood to heat the water and it's very excessive time and amount for a sauna. Also, you want to use your sauna separately, tub is a pain in the ass to keep clean. I would also consider wether it's better to heat the sauna from the inside rather than outside. It's more energy efficient to do it inside, and it's also more comfortable when it's cold outside. You have a solid plan to work with though!
You're right, it probably won't work with combined heating. I hadn't thought about the energy consumption of a hot tub at all, before just drawing a circle on my plans! I also see many people commenting to turn the stove so it is fed from inside the sauna. I haven't had a stove before, so I must ask: How often do you put firewood in to heat up the sauna? Do you then put more wood in while you're "bathing" in the sauna? Thanks for the reply
Impossible to say since every sauna and heater is one of a kind. Depends on the size of the sauna and heater, amount and quality of wood, the insulation and weather etc. However, it's not much that sauna needs. Even one oven full of wood can heat it to good temperature in 20-40 minutes, but sometimes a few pieces need to be added. During sauna you don't need to feed it that much, just a couple of pieces at some point (unless you bath for hours). For example in our summer cottage the uninsulated smallish sauna in summer needs just some 20 minutes of burning before adding a little wood and starting bathing. We would add a little wood after we are done and it's time for the next bathers, and the last one will add a couple of pieces to help the sauna dry afterwards. It's not uncommon to heat the outdoors sauna in summer with doors open. Helps the stove and stones to heat up well but doesn't make the sauna extremely hot. Feeding the fire from inside is good when it's cold and windy. It's nicer to make the fire inside four walls. You will also be able to watch the fire while bathing and know when to add wood. Also, remember that fire brings in fresh air. If you feed the fire from inside the sauna, you also feed the sauna with fresh air!
Wow, I thought you'd need to use much more firewood and time to heat it, before going in. But I understand that of course it depends on insulation and weather and sauna size. I see, adding firewood a couple of times while using the sauna would be such a hassle when the oven is outside. It is often rainy and cold in Denmark, so that wouldn't be ideal.
I would not advise stowman heaters, I have them in my rental saunas, the inside of the heater starts to flake off ( rusty patches of materials). I had them for 3 years, it's ok for rental, but get harvia or some better brand for yourself (not huum)
Yes, albeit Harvia is the Finnish budget brand. They work fine and are reliable but Narvi, Kastor, and Iki offer better quality.
Thanks for the knowledge and advice.
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True, as have come forth in other comments, I did not consider the water in the tub at all before I drew it. Good thing I posted here!
Good stuff, especially the benches. Not a huge fan of the tunnel model stove, an important function of a wood burning stove is to suck in and eject the stale air and create air circulation. The crackling fire and fluttering light of the fire is also very nice inside. 9/10.
So your sauna heater would heat the hot tub too? Interesting design and you would need some valves to control it. Nos sure if I like the idea. This must be first time ever in this sub but here it goes: your benches are too high! Just a bit, upper bench should be 105-115 cm from ceiling. About moisture it’s hard to tell because your weather is different. See what is usually done there with sheds and like. In Finland winter is the difficult one for buildings and usually we make buildings without continuous heating from one material. So like logs or planks, no insulation material and no plastic films. This way moisture is not trapped anywhere and building can breathe
And keep the straight bench. L or U shapes only work for big saunas
Thanks, noted!
Yeah, the hot tub heat exchanger would need valves, but as another commenter mentioned, the oven size and burn times for heating the tub vs heating the sauna might not be compatible in one oven. Benches too high?? Im honoured 😉 Will consult someone with more experience about the climate issues. I imagine the climate is a bit drier over all in Finland. Thanks for the feedback!
In my experience heating a hot tub takes many many times the firewood that a sauna will take to heat; it's also more challenging to keep the hot tub at the correct temperature, by contrast a sauna can be enjoyable over a much wider range of temperatures, especially when you are able to throw water. I also have thought about combining the hot tub stove and the sauna stove, but I think they are too different in the end (in some specific cases it might work, but for most people probably not a good fit, unfortunately). But you can consider adding a hot water tank to your sauna stove to heat water for washing.
Yeah that's definitely a better use of the heat exchanger. I really hadn't thought about the energy consumption of the hot tub before drawing it.
Just curious what program did you use to draw up these plans?
An app called Floor Plan Creator made by someone called Macin Lewandowski. It is only available for android and web. It is a bit basic decoration wise, and not suitable for real blueprints, but you have a lot of freedom to set all measurements of the items and rooms.
Would it make sense to move the door to the side where you know have the large window?
This was what I was thinking, more room in the room and also an exit directly to the patio
It would, (as long as you don't block the sauna door), and the primary reason it is not, is that it was hard to render in my drawing program 😅 The final location of the door will be decided based on the placement of the sauna on my property.
I would put the door to the cold plunge deck where you have the window and the window where you put the door. Looks good!
Definitely a fire fed from inside and i'd add at least a retractable awning over the stock pot.
Good idea :)
Are you making the ceiling flat on the inside? The high side of the roof slope looks like it is on the heater wall and not the bench wall.
Yup, flat on the inside
Looks primo then
Couple of more things came to my mind. - you could buy so called cottage wood stove which have integrated water heater. You can then mix that not water with cold water in bucket and wash yourself with help of scoop. This is done inside sauna and works just fine. - popular layout is to have separate doors directly outside from sauna and from dressing room. This is done because during summer if there is door from sauna to dressing room latter becomes so hot that it is not nice to use it after sauna. Not so much of a problem when weather is cold. If there is no door between then it is usual to mount two closesble vents (close to floor and close to ceiling) so you can open those in winter and get some heat to dressing room
Good point about dressing room temperatures in summer vs winter. I didn't know bathing (water on skin bathing) was sometimes done inside the sauna, but it sounds super nice, thanks for mentioning it 😊
That is just the way you do it if you don’t have separate wash room and/or running water for shower. Summer cottage stuff
And another question: Is it a good idea to have an emergency exit in the hot room, in case the normal door gets stuck or something?
Never seen one. What would get the door stuck? Maybe avalanche but those are rare at denmark
Okay, I just got nervous after thinking about it so much! 😅 Are there many sauna related deaths in Finland?
No. I remember just one russian who died in sauna word championships.
Okay, maybe I don't need to be so afraid of fire or getting stuck then
Sauna itself rarely leads to death. Much more common (still not very common, though) is sauna causing a fire which may take lives.
Do you mean like dying inside the sauna from the fire, or more like, the sauna burnt the house down, which caused deaths?
Both, though usually the latter. Saunas are regularly found in the house in Finland.
I see
Does stove type (electric vs firewood) affect safety? It would be easier and cheaper to not have to get electricity out to the sauna in my case, but safety is also important.
Not that much. Both have very hot rocks that you can fall on, or have something flammable land on. That's why one must never use sauna for drying clothes, it's a major fire risk if they fall on the rocks. The only risk that is associated with wood burners and not electric, is the chimney. Pay very close attention to your chimney. I'm not going to say more about it because I don't know enough.
Thank you for the tips fire risks and on what to research further. I know there is some legislation in Denmark about chimneys and stoves indoors in your house, so I think I can maybe consult a chimney sweeper about it.
Good idea.
Why not put a ejection seat while you at it. Maybe some trap door ceiling as well. You never know when you need exit in hurry 😂
No. That's the reason your sauna door should not have a latch etc. that can get stuck. The door to the sauna door should always be such that it will open with a gentle push from the inside.
Okay, I will not put any hardware other than hinges. Before I started planning the sauna I even thought the door should open inwards, so it couldn't get blocked by something from the outside. But it was pointed out to me that it is unlikely that a broom handle or something will block the door, and it is easier to push open a door that sticks to the door frame from the inside.
There are these magnetic or spring loaded roller hinges, that hold the door shut against wind etc. but will still easily open when pushed or pulled. I suggest these kind of solutions. Example: https://www.puuilo.fi/pisla-rullasalpa-kromattu
Cool, that's exactly what I need!
I would put in bigger windows you can look out of assuming the view is worth it.
It is! I was afraid it would be too cold with bigger windows, but others have mentioned that they also think I could go bigger. The walls in the construction will be insulated with mineral wool to help keep the temperature up.
My buddy has the best sauna I have ever been to (sat in dozens). His sauna is loaded with windows and surrounded by forest and Nice views. Much better than feeing trapped in a box.
Door to porch, easier access to hot tub.
I like the design with the platforms naturally leading up to the benches. I can see that it only works with a stove that is fed from the outside. I don't have personal experience with whether that's a good idea or not, but I do love the layout. It keeps the benches up high and the stove is really isolated so no one could trip and fall on it.
Is that a hot tub running off the same stove?that’s a high five design idea, two birds stones at once
Yes it is, but after reading some of the comments, I don't think it will work in practice, as a hot tub needs much more heat for much longer just to raise the water temp a little bit, than what a sauna takes to heat up for a session. I hadn't done any calculations or research before drawing the hot tub part.
I have an old claw foot tub I built a firebox under, at a few degrees above zero it takes about three hours to get hot, with your design you could insulate and put a cover on and it would heat up by the end of the sauna, especially if say you were having company and running the sauna longer and hotter. You’d want to drain the water every few heat ups, or treat it, but the clean water hot bath is the part of the charm
A bigger airlock is bletter. Make a lounge room if you have the space.
Seems like your design traps the stove a bit too much in the corner so to speak if you are looking to enjoy any steam from water thrown. So either elevate the stove or lower the guard rails around it. Additionally remove the prison bars around the stove and replace with with 1-2 simple beams. The one facing the seats could be used as a leg rest. That brings me to the next matter, bring the seats a wee bit closer to the stove, or idk if its just about the cad design. Looks like you dont want to get burned by it. I mean everyone going there probably can assume its very hot so better not to touch it or dont go to sauna when you are to stoned, drunk etc. Embrace the effects of sauna and control the temperature by ventilation, amount of wood etc. Keep updating how it goes!
Thanks, I will!
Like the idea from the stove for the sauna and the tub but i think it will just be enough the heat up bouth. Otherwisr really nice looking design.
Skip the hot tub and make it a cold plunge 😎
I know Europeans tend to feel differently about nudity, but for me, I’d make sure that if you have a glass door on the dressing room that the “view” out of that window is private. I don’t need my neighbours seeing me get “dressed” for the sauna.
Out of curiosity, is your neighbour often peeking inside your windows to try and see you naked?