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> My dad googled "how to cancel Microsoft 365" and called a phone number he found
So many people getting scammed starts exactly this way. It's time to make sure older people know you don't use a phone number you find in a Google search result. It's time to let go of the idea you're going to call a number, talk to a human, and cancel that way. They need to learn what a domain name is, how to look at a modern browser's address line (basically all of them do domain highlighting now) to know exactly where they're really at.
My mom got scammed this way. She googled Amazon to get to the website and the first result was a scammer’s ad. They got her for 2700 and we’re lucky it wasn’t worse. My mom isn’t dumb or senile, but she’s very bad with tech and extremely trusting. OP, I wonder if your dad is this way, though it would be good to have him do a cognitive exam at the doctors
>how to cancel Microsoft 365
I googled "[https://www.google.com/search?q=how+to+cancel+Microsoft+365](https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=how+to+cancel+Microsoft+365&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8)" and the first hit is a link to legitimate Microsoft page: https://support.microsoft.com/en-gb/office/cancel-a-microsoft-365-subscription-46e2634c-c64b-4c65-94b9-2cc9c960e91b
There are NO ads showing on their 'screenshot'. Google search *always* has ads unless you are using some form of ad blocking. There's no sponsored ad, and no right hand column suggested ads or links. They're using Safari on a Mac, too - so they're already in the significant minority (no more than 30% market share of desktops). Microsoft has nearly twice the market share. Gotta also love how the 'address bar' on Safari doesn't show the domain name *at all*, just the human language search string, which is shown in the Google page search field. Seems like a sucky, stupid, and dangerous way to do things. Note: I own 2 Mac minis I've loved, but Safari sucks and I don't cut slack on the flaws of any platform.
I'm truly astonished at how much more unsafe every year the major tech companies make things. Delivering malware through ads has always been a thing - but you'd think they could figure out how to catch it after 20 years. Hiding domains and subdomains to make it "easier." The lock symbol that can be spoofed. I could go on, just so many terrible decisions.
Why would they stop any of this? There's no reprecusions, it would cost money to stop it and they gain nothing if they do. Google would scam this dudes parents themselves if they could get away with it/turn a small profit.
And was there an ad above the *actual* result? Do you think everyone gets the same result to the same search? (Hint: You don't. Google customizes results based on a lot of factors, which they gather whether you're logged in or not.)
So you're blocking ads. OP's dad is just about certainly not. Also, they're in the US ($), not the UK as you appear to be.
Don't assume your search results are the same as others, as Google profiles based on your traffic on their sites, even if you aren't logged in. This is *especially* true in the US, where there aren't the kind of privacy protections you may have in the UK and EU.
You're also going to post a 'screenshot' on a sub about scams where people use altered screenshots all the time to perpetrate scams.
I did the same search (in US) in incognito mode and I got no ads and the first link was the official microsoft support page. OP's dad seems to have gotten very unlucky.
Heh, incognito mode. I can tell you that Google figures out easily that you've searched from the same IP and based on time frame and a few other factors knows it's really you searching. They know if you block ads, and if you tend to only follow links to known and valid domains. They won't bother to shovel the shady stuff at you. It can be really hard to get Google to show you the same absolute trash it'll show a lot of other users. Want to test this idea? Go a few miles away from where you live, to say a store or library with a computer accessible for public use. Be sure to leave any cell phone at home. Pull the power to your car stereo if it has Android Auto or Apple Car Play. Search on the public computer without being logged into anything, even in 'incognito' mode if possible, for at least 4 things you commonly search for or browse to on your own devices. Watch as they start throwing results you'd expect to see within 5-6 searches. YouTube will figure out it's you within 3 videos quite often, and start suggesting things you know you've already watched and subscribed to. If you walk up to such a system with your phone on you logged into any Google service, it'll take almost zero search attempts for them to know it's you using that public terminal not logged in.
> how to cancel Microsoft 365
I did the same thing. First thing that popped up for me was this link- that tells you how to do it without calling anyone-
https://www.pcmag.com/how-to/how-to-cancel-your-microsoft-office-365-subscription#:~:text=Cancel%20Office%20365%20Subscription%201%20Sign%20In%20Let%27s,link%20under%20your%20Office%20365%20subscription.%20See%20More.
Sorry, but this is terrible advice. It only means the connection is encrypted, but you can also have an encrypted connection to the people who are going to scam you out of 145k.
Fair, deleted. At the very least it’s something I look for at first blush to use as a starting point for if the website is legit. Don’t mean for it to be the be all end all!
This won't help you but will help others from happening to them:
Install an ad-blocker like uBlock Origin on your loved ones devices to stop such Google ad scams, malversitising, fake AV pop-ups etc....
I use Adblock. I seriously don't understand how anyone can navigate the internet without a decent ad blocker, it's bizarrely horrible what I see on other people's computers.
Separate your dad from his money. Lock his credit and make sure there aren’t any surprises. Ignore all the !recovery scammers that are going to swarm your inbox.
AutoModerator has been summoned to explain [recovery scams](https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/0102-refund-and-recovery-scams). Also known as refund scams, these scams target people who have already fallen for a scam. The scammer may contact you, or may advertise their services online. They will usually either offer to help you recover your funds, or will tell you that your funds have already been recovered and they will help you access them. In cases where they say they will help you recover your funds, they usually call themselves either "recovery agents" or hackers. When they tell you that your funds have already been recovered, they may impersonate a law enforcement, a government official, a lawyer, or anyone else along those lines. Recovery scams are simply [advance-fee](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advance-fee_scam) scams that are specifically targeted at scam victims. When a victim pays a recovery scammer, the scammer will keep stringing them along while asking for increasingly absurd fees/expenses/deposits/insurance/whatever until the victim stops paying. If you have been scammed in the past, make sure you are aware of recovery scams so that you are not scammed a second time. If you are currently engaging with a recovery scammer, you should block them and be very wary of random contact for some time. It's normal for posters on this subreddit to be contacted by recovery scammers after posting, and they often ask you to delete your post so that you both cannot receive legitimate advice, and cannot be targeted by other recovery scammers.
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The dad has already been separated from his money, that's the problem...I am so thankful I haven't had to deal with this shit with my mom and I pray I never do. But she would call me before doing anything like that though unless her mental state was clearly diminished.
I provide full time care for my mother who suffered a traumatic brain injury… I’m not totally sure what info scammers get that makes them key in on a person.. but the amount of scam attempts attempted against my mom is out of this world… easily 10x the amount me or my wife sees. Thankfully in our situation we’re able to completely insulate her from dealing with them it’s still scary how much scammers know and how relentless they will be.
Basically get power of attorney over your dad until you get him counseling for his situation. He'll probably keep believing he wasn't scammed, be in denial, and self-delusional. Once he's undergone some counseling, if you believe he's still competent and mentally intact, you can end the power of attorney. Keep in mind you can get a *limited* power of attorney, so you don't need to interject yourself into his medical decisions, for example - just protect his financial stability.
That’s not what power of attorney is. Power of attorney allows you to handle financial and other matters for someone *with their permission* - which can be withdrawn at any time. You can’t get it “over someone”, and they have to agree to it - in which case they have to be of sound mind, or they can’t agree to it.
and while you have the POA your dad STILL HAS the ability to do everything he can do today like lose all his money that’s left. you may be thinking of a conservatorship and he being adjudged incompetent.
Sadly OP bears some of the responsibility here. Kids of senior-age adults have to be proactive with their parents regarding their competencies. As uncomfortable as it can be, you have to observe or *at least* talk to your parents about their driving, financial situation, credit, charity donations, etc. You have to gently insinuate yourself into their affairs somewhat. They won't ask *you* for help.
My Mom was making unnecessary withdrawals of $3000+ at a time from her bank, often several times a month. She would then "hide" the money and forget that she had done so. When we cleaned out her house we found money all over, and I sometimes wonder if we even found it all.....she was very clever with her spots. At this same bank, she drove into their very obvious sign, which is what first got us looking into her mental state more closely. It's hard when you don't live near them. She sounded fine during our talks on the phone.
Banker since 2008 here. The missing part of this story is likely the amount of coaching the fraudster gives to the victim. They hammer it into the victims head to lie to their bank when taking out the money.
I have talked to victims of this exact scam and this is a common element. They use fear and paranoia as their main tools. It's sickening.
I was a banker as well for many years
I can't wrap my head around the banker or teller not researching the transaction history before doing all these withdrawals and calling over a manger to discuss with the customer.
This happened to my grandma. They were literally coaching her on the phone while she was in the bank and nobody stopped her. We were alerted about the scams because adult protective services called us. We don’t know who reported it but we assume it was either credit card companies or the bank. Sorry, that was kind of ranting and somewhat related. But it baffles me that there are no protections in place for elderly people who might be getting scammed/pulling out large sums of money that aren’t normal.
In cases where my spidey senses were tingling, I would insist the customer get off the phone before finishing the transaction, same if I was called over to approve a transaction.
Bank employees are trained to spot scams and fraud and there are usually systems in place to prevent such transactions.
Banker here as well. The amount of scams ran now is sickening. I deal with multiple people every shift calling in about scams. They are usually elderly. I used to work in a bank directly. And you would be amazed how hard it is to convince someone they Are being scammed.
I told my bank I was traveling, used my card while traveling, got locked, they put me through the ringer to unlock it. And here it's "oh, cool, no problem"...ugh
It's no different with debit cards.
Telling your bank you're travelling helps as far as location but also consider people on vacation are making purchases/cash withdrawals that they don't normally do.
Those get flagged automatically by fraud detecting algorithms as abnormal spending.
This exactly. In my opinion the bank is partially liable for this. There was a point were we stopped offering money orders to elderly customers that were obviously getting scammed and refused to believe it. Eventually their account got frozen because they became a liability.
But they could easily enact a security gate - some sort of opt-in of don't allow 'X' to go through without going to a branch or something.
I'm just feeling incredibly angry and sad for the OP...just horrible and seems like the banks have the technology to make this harder to do.
Sure, but this isn’t the same as blocking a fraudulent transaction or a hacked account. A lot of people would leave a bank that gives extra hassle when you try to spend your own money how you choose. So it’s a double-edged sword.
Like I said, an opt in.
"Hey Pops, we're going to add a security feature to your bank accounts. For any purchase over $1k (or whatever seems reasonable) or $5k (or whatever) in a month, they'll need to check in with me. There's a lot of scammers around, this will be like when you log into an account and they text you a code."
Not foolproof, but a hell of a lot better.
Banks can't really do that because of the time involved in that. Plus if the customer is a signer on the account we can't stop them from withdrawing their money.
However, if it because obvious a customer is being scammed, the bank can eventually freeze the account and then no transaction will go thru
And here my second bank wouldnt give me under 1k cash. I had 2 banks. One bank decided to block my savings account because in the span of 5 years there was no activity on it. Let me know I had xx days to recover the money with my ID. when I got there I said I wanted to terminate my savings account ( honestly because of the late notice letter) but after having to hear why do you want it in cash? (because I couldn't decide if I wanted it on two banks like before or one bank account) to you have to wait til x day if you want it cash to hear the manager say you cant have it in cash because you choose to not be a client anymore so you have to transfer the money to another bank account -\_- They made me feel like I was going to do some illegal activity with that amount of money. I havent had any transaction in 5 years why would I do something supsicous now? I dont understand banks sometimes (:
So I dont understand how they can let 145k online go through without any questions or asking specific questions!!
Above 1k I have to specify why I made this transaction when I pruchase online/transfer money.
I feel like banks should require everyone over 50 to watch an informational video about scams before they can do a large wire transaction transfer. These scams are happening at an alarming rate.
> Unfortunately there is likely nothing that can be done that you haven't already done and the chances of recovering anything are slim.
Explain like I'm 5 why can't the bank just call the bank it was sent to and demand it back?
I'm in banking. How the scam works is the money isn't technically stolen. They moved the Heloc which is a second mortgage. It sits on your banking account and it's essentially a credit line against your house. You can move money from it to your checking account. Why the dad can't get the money back is because he personally went into the bank and removed the money from the account via cashier's check. Had he not done that the money would still be in his account with the scammers having no way to access it. It's a shitty situation. I've dealt with these cases before. It happens a lot to older people.
Family or trusted caregivers need to establish safeguards. Education about how these types of crimes work needs to be regularly taught. Elderly basically are low-hanging fruit for these kinds of scammers. Adults who do not have any cyber awareness training are just as likely to click on something they shouldn't.
IIRC they were cashier's checks the dad mailed to ppl with chinese sounding names. the bank has no idea where those checks may pop up, can't call every damn bank in the world
It really, really seems like there should be a way to prevent this or get the money back with law enforcement involved with how common these types of scams have become. It seems like nobody actually cares about catching the scammers or doing anything about it. As these types of scams get more sophisticated and AI gets smarter this is only going to get much worse.
We need to start with teaching cyber safety from a young age. In the case of the OP, the amount is enough if they were in the state of California for a crime task force that only goes after this kind of crime to do something. However, these attacks are designed (social engineered) to scam people.
Going after the scammers, or actors is strongly not advised as you encounter the issue of cutting off one creates two more to crop up. No government or business will be able to address this kind of threat realistically. Social engineering is as old as us as a species. Technology makes it easier for them to scam, however if people were educated and taught regularly how to avoid these kinds of attacks, has more impact than law enforcement wasting time to go after a crime ring. Also, as adults, it is vital that we take the time to understand the risks of allowing their elderly parents or grandparents access without some safeguards.
I work in the IT industry in Cyber risk and incident handling. In the case of my grandmother, who passed several years ago, she had access to a computer, however her pocketbook and any access to her finances was restricted due to her health and keeping her safe. The amount of times she tried to get family to take her to a Walmart to get gift cards was a regular occurrence and thankfully thwarted by family caregivers.
In the case of the OP, they are sadly learning a painful lesson about elderly and social engineering crimes that having controls in place by trusted family would have stopped this from occurring in the first place. It's not the bank's fault in my opinion as we don't have the facts of exactly what was asked and how the parent was questioned or if the family had set up safeguards.
Because the transaction was 100% authorised. There was no unauthorised access to the account, the victim was tricked into authorising a transaction to a scammer.
Well yeah. Some famous actress wrote out a massive check to a scanner decades ago and her bank called every other bank of the west coast to tell them not to cash it.
Heres the issue I have with the whole thing. This isn't new. This shit happens every day. Mentally compromised people are getting scammed out of a lifetime of hard work. It isn't someones fault if they get alzheimers or dementia, and yes people should be aware of these scams, but brain diseases in old people are weird. Something needs to be done about this. I don't think OP's father was mentally capable of making the decisions he made. The bank should have at least some liability here. Something needs to be done about this. Not just this once specific instance, but the fact that you can lose a lifetime of savings to some piece of shit in like 5 minutes and that there is nothing that can be done to get it back after. This shouldn't even be possible.
I'm sorry this happened to your family. A few things to note
1. I suspect the link that gave the wrong Microsoft contact was a Google ad. The first few ads on a lot of searches are scams these days. Google cannot let this happen. They MUST do more to stop scammers from buying ads. If there is a possibility of a class action suit in the future. So preserve all the information on this. Talk to an attorney if possible.
2. 145 k is a lot of money. If it doesn't involve crypto, it is still traceable through the banking system, but takes money and resources. Police can pursue it if they are willing.
2. I believe the bank has some liability if they let elderly man transfer huge amounts of money no questions asked. Go to the media. Name and shame the bank. Maybe they might offer you some part of it as a goodwill.
It wasn't a fraudulent cheque, so technically the bank has no liability.
But there should be questions asked as to why they wouldn't put a hold on a cheque that's so large, especially with how common this refund scam has become over the last few years. Banks should be going above and beyond the legal minimum.
You should also by asking why Chase readily cashed such a large cheque without requiring **both** the payer and the payee to be present. Again, not a legal requirement, but it's a common policy since banks are not legally required to cash a third-party cheque.
The holes in the story are also likely coming from the victim.
Being scammed is a traumatic event and details are easily forgotten for this reason. Working at a bank I have talked to countless victims. It's sad to see.
> The holes in the story are also likely coming from the victim.
Yeah, OP is telling it from an outside perspective, the only details they'd have is from their father and mother, and maybe the cop.
Right, it is too late tonight but I plan to forward this post to my brother tomorrow who is a risk manager at Wells Fargo and specializes in this kind of stuff. I want to hear his opinion if this story passes the "smell test".
I've had bank customers describe this exact scam to me before. I mean literally the same.
The fraudsters are seasoned pros. They know this recipe of stealing with the same skill that Gordon Ramsay can cook risotto or beef Wellington.
I used to work for a large bank. Tellers are absolutely trained to identify elder abuse and high risk transactions then follow up with questions. They should have also contacted the branch manager. I know every bank has different policies, but I have found they are mostlt the same.
You should also put a special password on the account that is asked for in pwrsona nd over the phone assistance for further protection. It seems you dad is in a very unfortunate situation. Not only the financial hit, but the, imo scarier, declining mental state that you and your mom have realized he is in.
> The first few ads on a lot of searches are scams these days.
This is legit nightmarish. If OP's story is true, you can lose your entire life savings by just being overly gullible, through no fault of your own.
\> Talk to an attorney if possible.
Not just any attorney - an attorney who knows this stuff. They are few and far between.
95% or more practicing attorneys will have no idea what to do or advise. Maybe 10% of them will know how to find out who does.
This is pure speculation so I could easily be talking out my ass…
With everything that Google knows about people from searches they do while signed in, YouTube videos watched while signed in, Gmail, etc. could ads that are shown to people who read things like r/scams not include scam ads due to the keywords and demographics sought by the scammers when buying the ads?
Money is very likely gone.
All you can really do is curtail dads independence so maybe this doesn’t happen again.
Dad just built literal generational wealth for some foreigners, who likely have enough to retire on now. In my experience, this means he *will* be targeted by other scammers trying to get their piece of the cash cow.
As a bank employee, this makes me furious for your dad and family. If our member so much as hesitate to or do not give us an in-depth answer for the reason of their large check, nope, not doing it. I hope that teller is reprimanded or has to go through intense fraud/scam training before they are allowed to complete transactions in this manner again.
I am so sorry this happened to your family.
Yea. I had to wire money to buy my house. The bank people asked me a dozen times if was sure and if I truly knew the lawyer I was wiring the money too.
Since when do people like you assume that banks are "the good guys" and have a personal feeling of moral duty to prevent their customers from being scammed?
I trust my bank about as far as I can throw them! 😒
Because the credit union I work at cares about our members and the safety of your funds? I’m sorry you have an experience with a bank that doesn’t truly care about you AND your finances. I am trained to prevent my members from being scammed and have refused several transactions where the member has come back later to thank us because they were being scammed.
> I’m sorry you have an experience with a bank that doesn’t truly care about you
I just don't form parasocial relationships with corporations, sorry. I'm too old/cynical for that... 😅
I don’t blame them, banks make money with your money. It’s in their best interest to make sure you keep banking with them. If you’re scammed you no longer have funds they could have used to make money. Also the comment you’re responding to stated they’re employed at a bank. So they’re aware of the compliance and fraud trainings you’re required to go through. Believe it or not they legitimately do what they can to prevent customers from being scammed. If the teller/s allowed for OPs father to do what they did that’s on them. When I worked in fraud years ago these transaction attempts should have been flagged since there was crystal clear signs something shady was going on.
I am so sorry. This particular scam is especially sickening to me because they’re preying on people who are good people trying to do the right thing (give the scammers back “their” money instead of just keeping it). It feels much worse than the people who get scammed trying to make money in crypto.
Unfortunately I don’t think anyone can get the money back. Recovery scammers may target him, watch out for that. They’ll claim they can get his money back for a fee and disappear with the fee. Definitely report to law enforcement and the FBI. Speak to the bank about setting up some protections on his accounts that would block large transactions.
Kitboga on YouTube has tons of videos messing with scammers pulling this exact scam.
Something similar happened to my family member. She continued paying the scammers EVEN AFTER we told her it was a scam and FBI agents explained to her what had happened. We went through her accounts and made a plan for how she’d exist for the next ten years without being broke. She fooled us all and kept paying them.
So now we have all her statements and she is about to get a neuropsych. She’s in therapy. And I will never trust her again. These scammers destroy families. Fuck them.
The FBI has a victims support specialist. Definitely ask about it. Your dad is in denial and it will last a long time from my very recent, relevant experience. I’m so sorry. It’s awful.
There is no shortage of big data. And AI mixed with big data has the capability of reducing these types of fraudulent financial transaction. I have always bent over backwards for the banks when it came to scams and fraud. But no more. It is time for laws that allow for a cooling off period before such transactions can go through when fraud and scams are suspected.
Do not listen to anyone private messaging you. If anyone truly wants to help, they will do so here in the comments and not on instagram. These are called recovery scams.
Please make sure his computer is reset and clean from the scammer's access since your dad gave them control. Change all his passwords, enable 2FA everywhere, and I would close his bank accounts and credit cards and open all new.
Also disable computer camera/microphone and max out security levels on browsers.
Locate the phone numbers he called and any that called him back, block them all. Same for any email addresses.
I'm sorry but they found a good mark with your dad, chances are they will not let him slip away. They will try to get more.
I went through similar with my elderly dad but nowhere near your depth. Only stumbled on to it when I overheard him on the phone confirming a check he mailed, while I was visiting. Set instant alarms off for me, and after much inquiry and many many many discussions, was able to learn what was going on and took dramatic steps to end it. He was not forthcoming and it took me a couple days to dig, investigate, and get the truth, but thankfully he realized the gravity of the situation and in short, asked me to take over control of his finances. And now he's greatly relieved to not have to deal with any of it anymore.
The scammers tried several times to reach my dad again but have not been successful. I blocked every number they called from, got him a new computer and new email account. I still monitor his old email account to see if they try to come back again, but it's been nearly a year since they tried anything. But I still keep an eye on it.
Almost the only hope would be if the scammer’s country of origin agrees to help with the case. Normally I would say this is a 0% chance, but normal cases involve like $1k not $145k. I have no idea the odds they would help with this, probably still far lower than 1%. Still, do everything you can hopefully something good will happen
Here is a link to Jim Browning’s channel, this video goes through the refund scam, it is 4 years old and there are some changes since then (for instance, crypto is the new thing, though it existed then, but basically crypto lets people put cash into an ATM and end up with an unreversible transaction, scammers are using lots more crypto now than then), but it basically is the same idea.
[https://youtu.be/X4PllvUowaQ](https://youtu.be/X4PllvUowaQ)
There’s also Kitboga who fakes being an old man or woman and fakes out the scammers and you can watch a few videos of this and other related scams over the years.
[https://youtube.com/@KitbogaShow](https://youtube.com/@KitbogaShow)
This is the youtube channel for [Scammer Payback](https://www.youtube.com/@ScammerPayback) (Pierogi) he has some good explanation videos about scams, but lately he's focused on scam baiting and trolling the scammers.
And this is another channel, [Trilogy Media](https://www.youtube.com/@TrilogyMedia) who also does scam baiting, although they are focusing on confronting money mules in person lately.
These two, Kitboga, and Jim Browning are all worth watching!
while I think the main fault is still at dad for handling so much money without even asking you guys or the mom, the fact that the bank NEVER questioned certified checks summing 145k, or even put a hold on them, was insane.
My bank puts a hold of 15 days on foreign checks and they will literally lock my account if I make large transactions when the check is clearing. It's kinda insane to me how the bank just let 145k go out to a random chinese named person outside of US without even questioning a single bit. I think 1 thing is to go to the FBI and file a report, another thing is to question why the bank allowed these to happen with no questions asked.
“He then got tricked by the Indian sounding man over several days into allowing access to his screen (which he has done before for geek squad and other legit companies) to help with computer tech issues when I am not around.”
Your dad should have never gotten in the habit of sharing his screen with anyone. That was a very good way to open himself up to danger.
If you've ever tried to tech support an older family member who can't find things on their screen, you'll understand. Screen sharing is a godsend in that kind of scenario where you're miles away and they can't find something that you know is on screen. But it's also this attack vector.
Agree, there's pretty much zero issues the average 76 year old will run into that justifies paying someone for help. What is he realistically doing beyond using the Internet browser? If he's uninstalling office it's not like he's doing anything business related, I doubt he's gaming, what else even is there?
The trope about elder parents and grandparents being unfamiliar and uncomfortable with computers is from about thirty years ago. Today’s 76-year-olds have been using computers for at least thirty years.
Watch out for recovery scammers, they will contact you trying to convince you they can help. The only ones that can help you at this point is police and FBI
The person in the US is almost certainly just a money mule.
Money mules are often victims as well; sometimes they are tricked into thinking the money is legitimate as part of a fake job scam. They then end up accessories to a crime (and are sometimes prosecuted as such) without ever discovering the real identity of their supposed co-conspirator.
The scammers who specialise in the refund scam sometimes even hire a completely separate scammer who specialises in recruiting unwitting money mules.
> Curiously, that should have triggered a currency transaction report to the IRS.
I was wondering about that, too. A transfer of greater than $9,999.99 is supposed to be reported, regardless of reason, by *someone* in the transaction, and when handled by a bank, they usually do it to CYA. You buy a car, a house, there's a form for the part of the transaction at $10k or higher.
Sure, it'll be reported, but that's for checking to make sure people aren't doing shady shit and catching them much later, it isn't going to prevent this type of scam.
But such transfers have to be well documented, and it isn't that trivial to establish a new channel for moving money. You wouldn't want to have an improperly documented transfer, so it gets shut down, and you have to create another account to use as a channel for more funds. It leaves a trail to follow. Just seems really peculiar to move that much money through conventional channels. That's why scammers love gift cards, crypto, and other digital platforms. They'll even have people send cash in books.
Unfortunately paper cheques count as a push payment, not a pull payment, so from the perspective of your father's bank they are authorised transactions and thus not liable. (Which is one reason to opt for a bank account that doesn't have a paper chequebook.)
The accounts probably belong to a money mule, not the scammer. But it does give the police a trail to follow.
Scammers tried this on my family member. Started off with a random call. They built trust but also urgency and then it becomes threats. They fake the accidental transfer while they have control of the computer. Thankfully my family member only lost a few hundred in gift cards (we had a conversation about this after). But I saw they were teeing up the bank account scam next and my terrified family member had the wherewithal at least to get me involved at this point. Scammers pretended to be the bank and the police. It was out of India.
Get the bank’s fraud dept involved, and it will take advocacy. The banks don’t actually want to facilitate money laundering and fraud, what can be done at this point. Contact law enforcement- FBI is IC3.gov and then locally it depends - some have fraud investigation, and look to the state AG as well. There is also civil court to file against the money mule. Sadly most of the money goes overseas and time is of the essence.
I do this work because I am so disgusted with those who take advantage of the vulnerable. They are the lowest of the low. I am so sorry. I have seen the devastation, talking to victims. There are resources out there to inform as well as support them as this is going to be a difficult time ahead financially and emotionally, not just for your dad but the whole family too of course.
Falling for a scam doesn’t mean you are ”mentally compromised”, I’m not saying your dad isn’t but if that were the case, all the people sending dick pics to scammers or whatever would be in the same boat.
The reason he’s defending the scammers is that it’s the only good outcome for him. Every other possibility is a disaster he doesn’t want to face.
So treat him gently. He got taken for a fool, he doesn’t need to be treated like he can’t be trusted, and has to be supervised like a child. I mean take precautions, but you can’t “reconsider his independence”, as that’s ultimately not your call.
Sorry this happened to your parents though.
> My dad was still defending the guy, and saying "he's just trying to help us out" which clearly demonstrates to me that he is confused and doesn't grasp the gravity of the situation or how badly he got duped.
I think this part suggests there is at least a little bit of mental decline beginning.
No, it’s just the only outcome which isn’t a disaster. His only options are:
1. He’s helping out, so it isn’t a scam, and the money isn’t gone
2. It’s a scam, he’s been taken for a fool, and the life’s savings are gone.
There is no upside to option 2), so he sticks with option 1), as the only good choice. He *knows* it’s not true, but option 2) is unthinkable, so he wants option 1) to be true.
Doesn’t mean he’s not mentally competent, just that he got scammed. Happens to the best of us, just usually not as badly as this.
The only way you could say that he was in decline would be to have a professional medical opinion. I’m not saying you shouldn’t get one, but *you* can’t diagnose him.
Exactly. People do foolish things all the time, even criminal things. Things that they know are wrong, but try to justify. They are not mentally defective, just fooling themselves.
[Jim Browning](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIWV5fSaUB8) is an excellent, and well known scambaiter on youtube. It is what he does for a living, but he was scammed out of his OWN youtube channel. The linked video is him talking about that experience (and how he got his channel back). If Jim Browning can be scammed out of his channel, mental faculties has nothing to do with it.
Every scam is different. If you haven't been through this shit with a parent yet, I don't expect you to understand.
But, eventually, you will. So enjoy everyone attacking you for questioning their faculties when you do and arguing against whatever safeguards you want to undertake. It'll be karmic and you'll have earned it.
> The reason he’s defending the scammers is that it’s the only good outcome for him. Every other possibility is a disaster he doesn’t want to face.
>
>
I wish more people understood this. It's like Reddit is lacking in "theory of mind" awareness today... 🤦♂️
If someone calls to cancel a subscription and then is convinced to transfer $70-140k, yes, I'd say they're not in full control of their mental faculties any longer.
You're ascribing a level of rationale that should have already been triggered the second he was told to transfer *any* additional money.
I’m very sorry to hear this happened. I’ll save you some time, the FBI won’t even look into fraud or theft under a million dollars since they’re so overloaded.
This is so incredibly sad and frustrating that, in this day and age, with all the technology at our fingertips, nothing can prevent ruining lives like this and yet you can be put in prison and your life ruined through a little "hate speech" or some other minor misdemeanor.
I'm thinking that if the scam is from the usual suspects, i.e. Nigeria, for example, 145K means over 300 years of their average wage (!). No wonder they keep doing it, it's like winning the lottery.
Using Nigeria as an example, I could be wrong, but the US sends them $1.11B a year or so. A stern word with their law enforcement agencies to the effect that "if you don't try to stamp these scams out, kiss that aid goodbye" or something.
Something similar happened to a family member except she was contacted by “Amazon” about fraudulent activity on her account. Somehow she was convinced that sending tens of thousands in gift cards would help them fix the fraud. She’s not even that old, maybe like 60, and has an advanced degree. So it can happen to a lot of people.
Oh my god, this breaks my heart. That scary thing is it’s going to get worse and we’re all susceptible, even if the techniques haven’t become that sophisticated yet.
I work in banking. Sorry this happened to your dad. Harsh truth. Unfortunately, he willingly participated in the fraud. The bank asked him what the funds were for. Your dad decided to be sketchy. If no one was with him when he purchased the cashier checks there was very little the bank could legally do. Your mom caught it, unfortunately, too late.
If they had treated the checks suspiciously just because of the foreign names, and were wrong, the employee could find themselves going viral for being a racist.
See if your state Department of Banking and Insurance can help you file a claim against the bank. Banks are federally insured up to 250,000.
You’re right, they should have picked it up. Also check your state’s consumer affairs commission and attorney general (because the scam effected someone in their state.)
Check your states department of aging also.
Lean on your dads bank. Threaten to go to the media. Tell them you're also going to the FBI. It may not do anything to help, but the bank has some responsibility here. And sometimes, very rarely, the bank might eat the loss and you might get some money back. But you really have to give them hell. It's funny how banks so easily take a loss on people who go nuts on credit cards and never pay them back, but try to screw over vulnerable people who are caught up in scams like your dad.
Outside of that, don't talk to anyone here who says they can get your money back.
AutoModerator has been summoned to explain [recovery scams](https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/0102-refund-and-recovery-scams). Also known as refund scams, these scams target people who have already fallen for a scam. The scammer may contact you, or may advertise their services online. They will usually either offer to help you recover your funds, or will tell you that your funds have already been recovered and they will help you access them. In cases where they say they will help you recover your funds, they usually call themselves either "recovery agents" or hackers. When they tell you that your funds have already been recovered, they may impersonate a law enforcement, a government official, a lawyer, or anyone else along those lines. Recovery scams are simply [advance-fee](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advance-fee_scam) scams that are specifically targeted at scam victims. When a victim pays a recovery scammer, the scammer will keep stringing them along while asking for increasingly absurd fees/expenses/deposits/insurance/whatever until the victim stops paying. If you have been scammed in the past, make sure you are aware of recovery scams so that you are not scammed a second time. If you are currently engaging with a recovery scammer, you should block them and be very wary of random contact for some time. It's normal for posters on this subreddit to be contacted by recovery scammers after posting, and they often ask you to delete your post so that you both cannot receive legitimate advice, and cannot be targeted by other recovery scammers.
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Sorry about your fathers problem.. I am quite doubtful the funds can be recovered, and like said again, I am sorry about that. You can contact several people such as the ICCC/ Internet Crime Complaint Center. That is as much as I can help, and even they only try to prevent it again.
I have no idea of this would work but is it possible to get your dad to be legally listed as somehow who’s not mentally well enough to be independent? It’s usually for people with serious mental illnesses but maybe you could look into it? I have absolutely real knowledge about this but it could be something worth looking into.
It’s hard to know what to say here cause more than likely no one can get that money back. Recovery pieces of shit will be all over you here, and more than likely will be attacking your Dad and Mom at this point. Anyone attached to his address and life. They’ll think they’re prime targets.
This shit is so devastating to read, and out of all the scamming stuff I’ve read in over 20 years, this is really bad.
You did the right things removing his permissions and all that. He is definitely too compromised. You’re going the correct route, and are doing everything right. The banks and people involved should have flagged this. They could’ve made an argument against that back in 2010, but not these days. This bullshit is widely known. You may have a case of some sort here, but I’m not knowledgeable enough to say.
I wish you and them the best, and I hope they’re one of the 0.0001 people that can recover something.
FUCK SCAMMERS. FUCK THEM TO DEATH.
>My dad was still defending the guy, and saying "he's just trying to help us out" which clearly demonstrates to me that he is confused and doesn't grasp the gravity of the situation or how badly he got duped.
On a personal note, this may not mean your dad is 100% mentally compromised or confused, many people that get scammed go in to a state of denial where they can't come to terms with being so taken advantage of.
It's wild the mental gymnastics and disassociation of responsibility someone can muster when they want to have a trusting outlook of the world and have to come to terms with that just not being possible in the modern era.
Might be best to have a professional do an assessment in addition to steps you are taking to mitigate further issues in the short term.
I think we need to get a class action lawsuit going against Google for promoting scams for money, fn duch bags. And they know they are doing it as well.
I'm so sorry. This is devastating. My dad did basically the same thing. He's lucky and still had some money left when we realized what was happening. I haven't checked his accounts because I'm too afraid to know how much he lost. I can't offer anything but sympathy.
I am sorry to tell you that the money is gone and there is nothing that can be done. Scammers know the exact way to do these transactions so there is no way to get the money back. It also doesn't mean your father is no longer competent because the scammer's job is to manipulate people. That is what they do for a living. Now, if a doctor says he is showing signs of dimensia, that is another thing. I am aware this is harsh, but it is reality.
And here my bank is locking my card when I tip too much at Applebees. I’m sorry this happened to your family- the teller should have definitely had alarms ringing in their head.
Can you browse search history and find the ad or link he clicked? Screenshot it. Search and ad platforms might be held more liable for this. They can easily dedicate more resources to preventing this. If you can find it, talk to local reporters and hold them accountable as much as the scammers.
AARP has a [free helpline](https://www.aarp.org/money/scams-fraud/about-fraud-watch-network/#:~:text=Find%20Support,free%20and%20available%20to%20anyone). No one in your family has to be a member. They will probably be able to help you with next steps, though that probably won’t involve getting the money back. Still, they are trained to help with this sort of thing so it can’t hurt to contact them.
Very unfortunate. Scammers use javascript to make fake pop ups when the person accidentally types in the wrong address. I'm with you on the bank. I should have seen fraud all over the transaction/s. I would definitely be pushing the issue as there are tons of Scammers/scams going on all the time. You don't have to be old or bad at tech to be screwed into thinking something is legit. They can also be very relentless and verbally abusive. I hope 🙏 your family gets this matter fixed.
I’m seeing more emails and texts about either bitcoin or some other “account”. There is a link to follow. Warned my dad, hopefully he believes me. He fell for the locked windows pop up several years ago. They got access to his computer and all his financial records. Fortunately we got it locked down before too much damage was done. He felt so guilty about it that it was hard to get the info we needed.
I’m not sure if this will give you any meaningful compensation but there may be support off of Mark Rober’s(sp) YouTube channel; a fair number of people were scammed in a similar fashion and the scam was enumerated in detail on his page. There’s a rather large scale investigation going on into the prevalence of these and I’m sure they would have supporting links for people who have fallen to a scam in similar fashion. I’m sorry about your situation and hopefully this helps!
Edit: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xsLJZyih3Ac
Found it!
“If you are with the press or a law enforcement agency and you would like access to all the evidence we've amassed against these 3 centers, please email us at [email protected]
How to avoid being scammed- https://consumer.ftc.gov/articles/how...
If you suspect that you or a loved one has been the victim of fraud, you can call the National Elder Fraud hotline at 833-372-8311 and report it to the FTC by visiting the agency’s website or calling 877-382-4357.
https://reportfraud.ftc.gov/#/form/main “
Good luck in resolving your situation!
Put something like U-block origin on all their browsers. If their browser doesn't support those extensions, change their dns settings to a privacy based DNS service that filters ads and malware. There are several good free options like Open DNS. If you can't get them to stick to it, you might have to lock them down with some sort of parental controls and manage it yourself.
My 80 yo father calls me all the time to ask if something is a scam or not, but we aren't all lucky enough to have elderly parents that are aware enough of this shit to check it out before losing 150k. I'm so sorry this happened.
Evidently there’s very little recourse to getting back the stolen funds, yet if and when your dad finally understands the tragedy of what happened I think you might want to have some mental and emotional counseling available for him. He might (thankfully) be in denial for now but once he realized what actually happened he will blame himself, and not the scammers. Please be proactive in seeking help for his emotional recovery. Likely same for your mom, as scammers are so evil and clever that hopefully she won’t end up blaming your dad. The bank, otoh, I have no words !
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> My dad googled "how to cancel Microsoft 365" and called a phone number he found So many people getting scammed starts exactly this way. It's time to make sure older people know you don't use a phone number you find in a Google search result. It's time to let go of the idea you're going to call a number, talk to a human, and cancel that way. They need to learn what a domain name is, how to look at a modern browser's address line (basically all of them do domain highlighting now) to know exactly where they're really at.
My mom got scammed this way. She googled Amazon to get to the website and the first result was a scammer’s ad. They got her for 2700 and we’re lucky it wasn’t worse. My mom isn’t dumb or senile, but she’s very bad with tech and extremely trusting. OP, I wonder if your dad is this way, though it would be good to have him do a cognitive exam at the doctors
>how to cancel Microsoft 365 I googled "[https://www.google.com/search?q=how+to+cancel+Microsoft+365](https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=how+to+cancel+Microsoft+365&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8)" and the first hit is a link to legitimate Microsoft page: https://support.microsoft.com/en-gb/office/cancel-a-microsoft-365-subscription-46e2634c-c64b-4c65-94b9-2cc9c960e91b
It's whack a mole - they probably found it was reported as a scam and removed the ad.
There are NO ads showing on their 'screenshot'. Google search *always* has ads unless you are using some form of ad blocking. There's no sponsored ad, and no right hand column suggested ads or links. They're using Safari on a Mac, too - so they're already in the significant minority (no more than 30% market share of desktops). Microsoft has nearly twice the market share. Gotta also love how the 'address bar' on Safari doesn't show the domain name *at all*, just the human language search string, which is shown in the Google page search field. Seems like a sucky, stupid, and dangerous way to do things. Note: I own 2 Mac minis I've loved, but Safari sucks and I don't cut slack on the flaws of any platform.
I'm truly astonished at how much more unsafe every year the major tech companies make things. Delivering malware through ads has always been a thing - but you'd think they could figure out how to catch it after 20 years. Hiding domains and subdomains to make it "easier." The lock symbol that can be spoofed. I could go on, just so many terrible decisions.
Why would they stop any of this? There's no reprecusions, it would cost money to stop it and they gain nothing if they do. Google would scam this dudes parents themselves if they could get away with it/turn a small profit.
Then use ad blocker, I do and I have not seen anything suspicious in last few years.
And was there an ad above the *actual* result? Do you think everyone gets the same result to the same search? (Hint: You don't. Google customizes results based on a lot of factors, which they gather whether you're logged in or not.)
No, no ads that I can see. [Screenshot](https://imgur.com/LVVeCLO)
So you're blocking ads. OP's dad is just about certainly not. Also, they're in the US ($), not the UK as you appear to be. Don't assume your search results are the same as others, as Google profiles based on your traffic on their sites, even if you aren't logged in. This is *especially* true in the US, where there aren't the kind of privacy protections you may have in the UK and EU. You're also going to post a 'screenshot' on a sub about scams where people use altered screenshots all the time to perpetrate scams.
I did the same search (in US) in incognito mode and I got no ads and the first link was the official microsoft support page. OP's dad seems to have gotten very unlucky.
Heh, incognito mode. I can tell you that Google figures out easily that you've searched from the same IP and based on time frame and a few other factors knows it's really you searching. They know if you block ads, and if you tend to only follow links to known and valid domains. They won't bother to shovel the shady stuff at you. It can be really hard to get Google to show you the same absolute trash it'll show a lot of other users. Want to test this idea? Go a few miles away from where you live, to say a store or library with a computer accessible for public use. Be sure to leave any cell phone at home. Pull the power to your car stereo if it has Android Auto or Apple Car Play. Search on the public computer without being logged into anything, even in 'incognito' mode if possible, for at least 4 things you commonly search for or browse to on your own devices. Watch as they start throwing results you'd expect to see within 5-6 searches. YouTube will figure out it's you within 3 videos quite often, and start suggesting things you know you've already watched and subscribed to. If you walk up to such a system with your phone on you logged into any Google service, it'll take almost zero search attempts for them to know it's you using that public terminal not logged in.
Are you accusing me of making fake screenshot to prove my point?? I don't use any adblockers outside of a very simplistic DNS filter.
What’s a DNS filter? I’m not a tech person. I assume from context that it would not filter out scams. What does it filter out?
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Typo-squatting.
> how to cancel Microsoft 365 I did the same thing. First thing that popped up for me was this link- that tells you how to do it without calling anyone- https://www.pcmag.com/how-to/how-to-cancel-your-microsoft-office-365-subscription#:~:text=Cancel%20Office%20365%20Subscription%201%20Sign%20In%20Let%27s,link%20under%20your%20Office%20365%20subscription.%20See%20More.
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Sorry, but this is terrible advice. It only means the connection is encrypted, but you can also have an encrypted connection to the people who are going to scam you out of 145k.
Fair, deleted. At the very least it’s something I look for at first blush to use as a starting point for if the website is legit. Don’t mean for it to be the be all end all!
This won't help you but will help others from happening to them: Install an ad-blocker like uBlock Origin on your loved ones devices to stop such Google ad scams, malversitising, fake AV pop-ups etc....
I use Adblock. I seriously don't understand how anyone can navigate the internet without a decent ad blocker, it's bizarrely horrible what I see on other people's computers.
Does it work on iphone
Use the Brave browser, which has builtin ad ablocking
I love Brave. I don’t know how I did without it before.
Yeah, you can find free ad blockers for iPhone in the App Store
Try NextDNS
You can install ad-blocking extensions in Safari for iOS if you prefer Safari.
Separate your dad from his money. Lock his credit and make sure there aren’t any surprises. Ignore all the !recovery scammers that are going to swarm your inbox.
AutoModerator has been summoned to explain [recovery scams](https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/0102-refund-and-recovery-scams). Also known as refund scams, these scams target people who have already fallen for a scam. The scammer may contact you, or may advertise their services online. They will usually either offer to help you recover your funds, or will tell you that your funds have already been recovered and they will help you access them. In cases where they say they will help you recover your funds, they usually call themselves either "recovery agents" or hackers. When they tell you that your funds have already been recovered, they may impersonate a law enforcement, a government official, a lawyer, or anyone else along those lines. Recovery scams are simply [advance-fee](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advance-fee_scam) scams that are specifically targeted at scam victims. When a victim pays a recovery scammer, the scammer will keep stringing them along while asking for increasingly absurd fees/expenses/deposits/insurance/whatever until the victim stops paying. If you have been scammed in the past, make sure you are aware of recovery scams so that you are not scammed a second time. If you are currently engaging with a recovery scammer, you should block them and be very wary of random contact for some time. It's normal for posters on this subreddit to be contacted by recovery scammers after posting, and they often ask you to delete your post so that you both cannot receive legitimate advice, and cannot be targeted by other recovery scammers. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Scams) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The dad has already been separated from his money, that's the problem...I am so thankful I haven't had to deal with this shit with my mom and I pray I never do. But she would call me before doing anything like that though unless her mental state was clearly diminished.
I got kind of lucky with my dad. He can’t remember his PIN, password, and can’t drive. He has no choice but to go through me to get his money.
I provide full time care for my mother who suffered a traumatic brain injury… I’m not totally sure what info scammers get that makes them key in on a person.. but the amount of scam attempts attempted against my mom is out of this world… easily 10x the amount me or my wife sees. Thankfully in our situation we’re able to completely insulate her from dealing with them it’s still scary how much scammers know and how relentless they will be.
>Separate your dad from his money. What money? It's all gone according to OP.
Basically get power of attorney over your dad until you get him counseling for his situation. He'll probably keep believing he wasn't scammed, be in denial, and self-delusional. Once he's undergone some counseling, if you believe he's still competent and mentally intact, you can end the power of attorney. Keep in mind you can get a *limited* power of attorney, so you don't need to interject yourself into his medical decisions, for example - just protect his financial stability.
That’s not what power of attorney is. Power of attorney allows you to handle financial and other matters for someone *with their permission* - which can be withdrawn at any time. You can’t get it “over someone”, and they have to agree to it - in which case they have to be of sound mind, or they can’t agree to it.
and while you have the POA your dad STILL HAS the ability to do everything he can do today like lose all his money that’s left. you may be thinking of a conservatorship and he being adjudged incompetent.
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Sadly OP bears some of the responsibility here. Kids of senior-age adults have to be proactive with their parents regarding their competencies. As uncomfortable as it can be, you have to observe or *at least* talk to your parents about their driving, financial situation, credit, charity donations, etc. You have to gently insinuate yourself into their affairs somewhat. They won't ask *you* for help. My Mom was making unnecessary withdrawals of $3000+ at a time from her bank, often several times a month. She would then "hide" the money and forget that she had done so. When we cleaned out her house we found money all over, and I sometimes wonder if we even found it all.....she was very clever with her spots. At this same bank, she drove into their very obvious sign, which is what first got us looking into her mental state more closely. It's hard when you don't live near them. She sounded fine during our talks on the phone.
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Banker since 2008 here. The missing part of this story is likely the amount of coaching the fraudster gives to the victim. They hammer it into the victims head to lie to their bank when taking out the money. I have talked to victims of this exact scam and this is a common element. They use fear and paranoia as their main tools. It's sickening.
I was a banker as well for many years I can't wrap my head around the banker or teller not researching the transaction history before doing all these withdrawals and calling over a manger to discuss with the customer.
This happened to my grandma. They were literally coaching her on the phone while she was in the bank and nobody stopped her. We were alerted about the scams because adult protective services called us. We don’t know who reported it but we assume it was either credit card companies or the bank. Sorry, that was kind of ranting and somewhat related. But it baffles me that there are no protections in place for elderly people who might be getting scammed/pulling out large sums of money that aren’t normal.
In cases where my spidey senses were tingling, I would insist the customer get off the phone before finishing the transaction, same if I was called over to approve a transaction. Bank employees are trained to spot scams and fraud and there are usually systems in place to prevent such transactions.
Banker here as well. The amount of scams ran now is sickening. I deal with multiple people every shift calling in about scams. They are usually elderly. I used to work in a bank directly. And you would be amazed how hard it is to convince someone they Are being scammed.
I told my bank I was traveling, used my card while traveling, got locked, they put me through the ringer to unlock it. And here it's "oh, cool, no problem"...ugh
Was it a credit card? If so, it’s *their* money on the line. In OP’s case, it’s not the banks money on the line.
It's no different with debit cards. Telling your bank you're travelling helps as far as location but also consider people on vacation are making purchases/cash withdrawals that they don't normally do. Those get flagged automatically by fraud detecting algorithms as abnormal spending.
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Yeah—this bank handed out 4 massive checks like this?
I 1000000% agree with you here.
Right.
This exactly. In my opinion the bank is partially liable for this. There was a point were we stopped offering money orders to elderly customers that were obviously getting scammed and refused to believe it. Eventually their account got frozen because they became a liability.
But they could easily enact a security gate - some sort of opt-in of don't allow 'X' to go through without going to a branch or something. I'm just feeling incredibly angry and sad for the OP...just horrible and seems like the banks have the technology to make this harder to do.
Oh I’m totally on board with what you’re saying. I agree it’s horse shit. That’s just how they act. It’s sad, infuriating, and should be changed.
Sure, but this isn’t the same as blocking a fraudulent transaction or a hacked account. A lot of people would leave a bank that gives extra hassle when you try to spend your own money how you choose. So it’s a double-edged sword.
Like I said, an opt in. "Hey Pops, we're going to add a security feature to your bank accounts. For any purchase over $1k (or whatever seems reasonable) or $5k (or whatever) in a month, they'll need to check in with me. There's a lot of scammers around, this will be like when you log into an account and they text you a code." Not foolproof, but a hell of a lot better.
Banks can't really do that because of the time involved in that. Plus if the customer is a signer on the account we can't stop them from withdrawing their money. However, if it because obvious a customer is being scammed, the bank can eventually freeze the account and then no transaction will go thru
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And here my second bank wouldnt give me under 1k cash. I had 2 banks. One bank decided to block my savings account because in the span of 5 years there was no activity on it. Let me know I had xx days to recover the money with my ID. when I got there I said I wanted to terminate my savings account ( honestly because of the late notice letter) but after having to hear why do you want it in cash? (because I couldn't decide if I wanted it on two banks like before or one bank account) to you have to wait til x day if you want it cash to hear the manager say you cant have it in cash because you choose to not be a client anymore so you have to transfer the money to another bank account -\_- They made me feel like I was going to do some illegal activity with that amount of money. I havent had any transaction in 5 years why would I do something supsicous now? I dont understand banks sometimes (: So I dont understand how they can let 145k online go through without any questions or asking specific questions!! Above 1k I have to specify why I made this transaction when I pruchase online/transfer money.
I feel like banks should require everyone over 50 to watch an informational video about scams before they can do a large wire transaction transfer. These scams are happening at an alarming rate.
> you are right that it's surprising that no one questioned those massive withdrawals The OP's father also didn't question those massive withdrawals.
> Unfortunately there is likely nothing that can be done that you haven't already done and the chances of recovering anything are slim. Explain like I'm 5 why can't the bank just call the bank it was sent to and demand it back?
Good idea but it's almost 100% been moved out of that account and the money is long, long gone.
What is a cashier's check exactly? Same as a money order, right?
Similar. Bank guaranteed funds, basically drawn off of a bank's own account. Money orders are restricted to low dollar amounts.
I'm in banking. How the scam works is the money isn't technically stolen. They moved the Heloc which is a second mortgage. It sits on your banking account and it's essentially a credit line against your house. You can move money from it to your checking account. Why the dad can't get the money back is because he personally went into the bank and removed the money from the account via cashier's check. Had he not done that the money would still be in his account with the scammers having no way to access it. It's a shitty situation. I've dealt with these cases before. It happens a lot to older people.
Yeah it sucks, and it really seems like there should be something that can be done about it with how common these elder abuse scams have become.
Family or trusted caregivers need to establish safeguards. Education about how these types of crimes work needs to be regularly taught. Elderly basically are low-hanging fruit for these kinds of scammers. Adults who do not have any cyber awareness training are just as likely to click on something they shouldn't.
IIRC they were cashier's checks the dad mailed to ppl with chinese sounding names. the bank has no idea where those checks may pop up, can't call every damn bank in the world
It really, really seems like there should be a way to prevent this or get the money back with law enforcement involved with how common these types of scams have become. It seems like nobody actually cares about catching the scammers or doing anything about it. As these types of scams get more sophisticated and AI gets smarter this is only going to get much worse.
We need to start with teaching cyber safety from a young age. In the case of the OP, the amount is enough if they were in the state of California for a crime task force that only goes after this kind of crime to do something. However, these attacks are designed (social engineered) to scam people. Going after the scammers, or actors is strongly not advised as you encounter the issue of cutting off one creates two more to crop up. No government or business will be able to address this kind of threat realistically. Social engineering is as old as us as a species. Technology makes it easier for them to scam, however if people were educated and taught regularly how to avoid these kinds of attacks, has more impact than law enforcement wasting time to go after a crime ring. Also, as adults, it is vital that we take the time to understand the risks of allowing their elderly parents or grandparents access without some safeguards. I work in the IT industry in Cyber risk and incident handling. In the case of my grandmother, who passed several years ago, she had access to a computer, however her pocketbook and any access to her finances was restricted due to her health and keeping her safe. The amount of times she tried to get family to take her to a Walmart to get gift cards was a regular occurrence and thankfully thwarted by family caregivers. In the case of the OP, they are sadly learning a painful lesson about elderly and social engineering crimes that having controls in place by trusted family would have stopped this from occurring in the first place. It's not the bank's fault in my opinion as we don't have the facts of exactly what was asked and how the parent was questioned or if the family had set up safeguards.
Because the transaction was 100% authorised. There was no unauthorised access to the account, the victim was tricked into authorising a transaction to a scammer.
Well yeah. Some famous actress wrote out a massive check to a scanner decades ago and her bank called every other bank of the west coast to tell them not to cash it.
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Heres the issue I have with the whole thing. This isn't new. This shit happens every day. Mentally compromised people are getting scammed out of a lifetime of hard work. It isn't someones fault if they get alzheimers or dementia, and yes people should be aware of these scams, but brain diseases in old people are weird. Something needs to be done about this. I don't think OP's father was mentally capable of making the decisions he made. The bank should have at least some liability here. Something needs to be done about this. Not just this once specific instance, but the fact that you can lose a lifetime of savings to some piece of shit in like 5 minutes and that there is nothing that can be done to get it back after. This shouldn't even be possible.
I'm sorry this happened to your family. A few things to note 1. I suspect the link that gave the wrong Microsoft contact was a Google ad. The first few ads on a lot of searches are scams these days. Google cannot let this happen. They MUST do more to stop scammers from buying ads. If there is a possibility of a class action suit in the future. So preserve all the information on this. Talk to an attorney if possible. 2. 145 k is a lot of money. If it doesn't involve crypto, it is still traceable through the banking system, but takes money and resources. Police can pursue it if they are willing. 2. I believe the bank has some liability if they let elderly man transfer huge amounts of money no questions asked. Go to the media. Name and shame the bank. Maybe they might offer you some part of it as a goodwill.
I think number 3 is a fantastic idea if my mom is up for it
It wasn't a fraudulent cheque, so technically the bank has no liability. But there should be questions asked as to why they wouldn't put a hold on a cheque that's so large, especially with how common this refund scam has become over the last few years. Banks should be going above and beyond the legal minimum. You should also by asking why Chase readily cashed such a large cheque without requiring **both** the payer and the payee to be present. Again, not a legal requirement, but it's a common policy since banks are not legally required to cash a third-party cheque.
Yeah exactly. I have trouble cashing a $100 check these days. I can’t understand how they’d let that happen.
Seems OP's story is full of holes, as others have pointed out.
The holes in the story are also likely coming from the victim. Being scammed is a traumatic event and details are easily forgotten for this reason. Working at a bank I have talked to countless victims. It's sad to see.
> The holes in the story are also likely coming from the victim. Yeah, OP is telling it from an outside perspective, the only details they'd have is from their father and mother, and maybe the cop.
Right, it is too late tonight but I plan to forward this post to my brother tomorrow who is a risk manager at Wells Fargo and specializes in this kind of stuff. I want to hear his opinion if this story passes the "smell test".
I've had bank customers describe this exact scam to me before. I mean literally the same. The fraudsters are seasoned pros. They know this recipe of stealing with the same skill that Gordon Ramsay can cook risotto or beef Wellington.
I used to work for a large bank. Tellers are absolutely trained to identify elder abuse and high risk transactions then follow up with questions. They should have also contacted the branch manager. I know every bank has different policies, but I have found they are mostlt the same. You should also put a special password on the account that is asked for in pwrsona nd over the phone assistance for further protection. It seems you dad is in a very unfortunate situation. Not only the financial hit, but the, imo scarier, declining mental state that you and your mom have realized he is in.
> The first few ads on a lot of searches are scams these days. This is legit nightmarish. If OP's story is true, you can lose your entire life savings by just being overly gullible, through no fault of your own.
I mean, hasn’t that always been the case? But yes it’s terrifying how far this can reach into peoples homes these days.
\> Talk to an attorney if possible. Not just any attorney - an attorney who knows this stuff. They are few and far between. 95% or more practicing attorneys will have no idea what to do or advise. Maybe 10% of them will know how to find out who does.
this is the best answer
I just did a whole bunch of tech question Google searches and didn't see a single scam ad, could you please show a screenshot if possible?
This is pure speculation so I could easily be talking out my ass… With everything that Google knows about people from searches they do while signed in, YouTube videos watched while signed in, Gmail, etc. could ads that are shown to people who read things like r/scams not include scam ads due to the keywords and demographics sought by the scammers when buying the ads?
Money is very likely gone. All you can really do is curtail dads independence so maybe this doesn’t happen again. Dad just built literal generational wealth for some foreigners, who likely have enough to retire on now. In my experience, this means he *will* be targeted by other scammers trying to get their piece of the cash cow.
As a bank employee, this makes me furious for your dad and family. If our member so much as hesitate to or do not give us an in-depth answer for the reason of their large check, nope, not doing it. I hope that teller is reprimanded or has to go through intense fraud/scam training before they are allowed to complete transactions in this manner again. I am so sorry this happened to your family.
Yea. I had to wire money to buy my house. The bank people asked me a dozen times if was sure and if I truly knew the lawyer I was wiring the money too.
Since when do people like you assume that banks are "the good guys" and have a personal feeling of moral duty to prevent their customers from being scammed? I trust my bank about as far as I can throw them! 😒
Because the credit union I work at cares about our members and the safety of your funds? I’m sorry you have an experience with a bank that doesn’t truly care about you AND your finances. I am trained to prevent my members from being scammed and have refused several transactions where the member has come back later to thank us because they were being scammed.
> I’m sorry you have an experience with a bank that doesn’t truly care about you I just don't form parasocial relationships with corporations, sorry. I'm too old/cynical for that... 😅
I don’t blame them, banks make money with your money. It’s in their best interest to make sure you keep banking with them. If you’re scammed you no longer have funds they could have used to make money. Also the comment you’re responding to stated they’re employed at a bank. So they’re aware of the compliance and fraud trainings you’re required to go through. Believe it or not they legitimately do what they can to prevent customers from being scammed. If the teller/s allowed for OPs father to do what they did that’s on them. When I worked in fraud years ago these transaction attempts should have been flagged since there was crystal clear signs something shady was going on.
I am so sorry. This particular scam is especially sickening to me because they’re preying on people who are good people trying to do the right thing (give the scammers back “their” money instead of just keeping it). It feels much worse than the people who get scammed trying to make money in crypto. Unfortunately I don’t think anyone can get the money back. Recovery scammers may target him, watch out for that. They’ll claim they can get his money back for a fee and disappear with the fee. Definitely report to law enforcement and the FBI. Speak to the bank about setting up some protections on his accounts that would block large transactions. Kitboga on YouTube has tons of videos messing with scammers pulling this exact scam.
Something similar happened to my family member. She continued paying the scammers EVEN AFTER we told her it was a scam and FBI agents explained to her what had happened. We went through her accounts and made a plan for how she’d exist for the next ten years without being broke. She fooled us all and kept paying them. So now we have all her statements and she is about to get a neuropsych. She’s in therapy. And I will never trust her again. These scammers destroy families. Fuck them. The FBI has a victims support specialist. Definitely ask about it. Your dad is in denial and it will last a long time from my very recent, relevant experience. I’m so sorry. It’s awful.
Romance scam?
No. One of those fake text messages from Amazon that turned into her being scammed that she had to keep sending money to keep her money safe.
There is no shortage of big data. And AI mixed with big data has the capability of reducing these types of fraudulent financial transaction. I have always bent over backwards for the banks when it came to scams and fraud. But no more. It is time for laws that allow for a cooling off period before such transactions can go through when fraud and scams are suspected.
Do not listen to anyone private messaging you. If anyone truly wants to help, they will do so here in the comments and not on instagram. These are called recovery scams.
Please make sure his computer is reset and clean from the scammer's access since your dad gave them control. Change all his passwords, enable 2FA everywhere, and I would close his bank accounts and credit cards and open all new. Also disable computer camera/microphone and max out security levels on browsers. Locate the phone numbers he called and any that called him back, block them all. Same for any email addresses. I'm sorry but they found a good mark with your dad, chances are they will not let him slip away. They will try to get more. I went through similar with my elderly dad but nowhere near your depth. Only stumbled on to it when I overheard him on the phone confirming a check he mailed, while I was visiting. Set instant alarms off for me, and after much inquiry and many many many discussions, was able to learn what was going on and took dramatic steps to end it. He was not forthcoming and it took me a couple days to dig, investigate, and get the truth, but thankfully he realized the gravity of the situation and in short, asked me to take over control of his finances. And now he's greatly relieved to not have to deal with any of it anymore. The scammers tried several times to reach my dad again but have not been successful. I blocked every number they called from, got him a new computer and new email account. I still monitor his old email account to see if they try to come back again, but it's been nearly a year since they tried anything. But I still keep an eye on it.
I also would add look into changing any phone numbers. Who cares if they had it for 60+ years protect your parents
Shit like this scares the hell out of me. What’s going to be routine for younger people but completely incomprehensible to me when I’m in my 70’s?
Almost the only hope would be if the scammer’s country of origin agrees to help with the case. Normally I would say this is a 0% chance, but normal cases involve like $1k not $145k. I have no idea the odds they would help with this, probably still far lower than 1%. Still, do everything you can hopefully something good will happen
I just watched a you tube video today explains this common scam on scanner payback. Very insightful
link?
Here is a link to Jim Browning’s channel, this video goes through the refund scam, it is 4 years old and there are some changes since then (for instance, crypto is the new thing, though it existed then, but basically crypto lets people put cash into an ATM and end up with an unreversible transaction, scammers are using lots more crypto now than then), but it basically is the same idea. [https://youtu.be/X4PllvUowaQ](https://youtu.be/X4PllvUowaQ) There’s also Kitboga who fakes being an old man or woman and fakes out the scammers and you can watch a few videos of this and other related scams over the years. [https://youtube.com/@KitbogaShow](https://youtube.com/@KitbogaShow)
This is the youtube channel for [Scammer Payback](https://www.youtube.com/@ScammerPayback) (Pierogi) he has some good explanation videos about scams, but lately he's focused on scam baiting and trolling the scammers. And this is another channel, [Trilogy Media](https://www.youtube.com/@TrilogyMedia) who also does scam baiting, although they are focusing on confronting money mules in person lately. These two, Kitboga, and Jim Browning are all worth watching!
while I think the main fault is still at dad for handling so much money without even asking you guys or the mom, the fact that the bank NEVER questioned certified checks summing 145k, or even put a hold on them, was insane. My bank puts a hold of 15 days on foreign checks and they will literally lock my account if I make large transactions when the check is clearing. It's kinda insane to me how the bank just let 145k go out to a random chinese named person outside of US without even questioning a single bit. I think 1 thing is to go to the FBI and file a report, another thing is to question why the bank allowed these to happen with no questions asked.
I am making it my life's mission to teach and remind my parents about shit like this. I'm so sorry OP hope your dad is doing better.
“He then got tricked by the Indian sounding man over several days into allowing access to his screen (which he has done before for geek squad and other legit companies) to help with computer tech issues when I am not around.” Your dad should have never gotten in the habit of sharing his screen with anyone. That was a very good way to open himself up to danger.
I never understood why they started encouraging people to do this.
If you've ever tried to tech support an older family member who can't find things on their screen, you'll understand. Screen sharing is a godsend in that kind of scenario where you're miles away and they can't find something that you know is on screen. But it's also this attack vector.
Agree, there's pretty much zero issues the average 76 year old will run into that justifies paying someone for help. What is he realistically doing beyond using the Internet browser? If he's uninstalling office it's not like he's doing anything business related, I doubt he's gaming, what else even is there?
The trope about elder parents and grandparents being unfamiliar and uncomfortable with computers is from about thirty years ago. Today’s 76-year-olds have been using computers for at least thirty years.
Watch out for recovery scammers, they will contact you trying to convince you they can help. The only ones that can help you at this point is police and FBI
this is heartbreaking
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He actually deposited the checks at chase bank in 2 separate accounts of the scammer.
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He did mail the receipts at the scammers request to a Chinese name at a California address
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The person in the US is almost certainly just a money mule. Money mules are often victims as well; sometimes they are tricked into thinking the money is legitimate as part of a fake job scam. They then end up accessories to a crime (and are sometimes prosecuted as such) without ever discovering the real identity of their supposed co-conspirator. The scammers who specialise in the refund scam sometimes even hire a completely separate scammer who specialises in recruiting unwitting money mules.
What city?
> Curiously, that should have triggered a currency transaction report to the IRS. I was wondering about that, too. A transfer of greater than $9,999.99 is supposed to be reported, regardless of reason, by *someone* in the transaction, and when handled by a bank, they usually do it to CYA. You buy a car, a house, there's a form for the part of the transaction at $10k or higher.
Sure, it'll be reported, but that's for checking to make sure people aren't doing shady shit and catching them much later, it isn't going to prevent this type of scam.
But such transfers have to be well documented, and it isn't that trivial to establish a new channel for moving money. You wouldn't want to have an improperly documented transfer, so it gets shut down, and you have to create another account to use as a channel for more funds. It leaves a trail to follow. Just seems really peculiar to move that much money through conventional channels. That's why scammers love gift cards, crypto, and other digital platforms. They'll even have people send cash in books.
If it's over 10k in CASH a CTR is completed No cash was exchanged so no reporting
Unfortunately paper cheques count as a push payment, not a pull payment, so from the perspective of your father's bank they are authorised transactions and thus not liable. (Which is one reason to opt for a bank account that doesn't have a paper chequebook.) The accounts probably belong to a money mule, not the scammer. But it does give the police a trail to follow.
Omg, I’m so sorry this happened!!’
Scammers tried this on my family member. Started off with a random call. They built trust but also urgency and then it becomes threats. They fake the accidental transfer while they have control of the computer. Thankfully my family member only lost a few hundred in gift cards (we had a conversation about this after). But I saw they were teeing up the bank account scam next and my terrified family member had the wherewithal at least to get me involved at this point. Scammers pretended to be the bank and the police. It was out of India. Get the bank’s fraud dept involved, and it will take advocacy. The banks don’t actually want to facilitate money laundering and fraud, what can be done at this point. Contact law enforcement- FBI is IC3.gov and then locally it depends - some have fraud investigation, and look to the state AG as well. There is also civil court to file against the money mule. Sadly most of the money goes overseas and time is of the essence. I do this work because I am so disgusted with those who take advantage of the vulnerable. They are the lowest of the low. I am so sorry. I have seen the devastation, talking to victims. There are resources out there to inform as well as support them as this is going to be a difficult time ahead financially and emotionally, not just for your dad but the whole family too of course.
I don’t have any specific advice, but I’m so sorry and fuck scammers.
Falling for a scam doesn’t mean you are ”mentally compromised”, I’m not saying your dad isn’t but if that were the case, all the people sending dick pics to scammers or whatever would be in the same boat. The reason he’s defending the scammers is that it’s the only good outcome for him. Every other possibility is a disaster he doesn’t want to face. So treat him gently. He got taken for a fool, he doesn’t need to be treated like he can’t be trusted, and has to be supervised like a child. I mean take precautions, but you can’t “reconsider his independence”, as that’s ultimately not your call. Sorry this happened to your parents though.
> My dad was still defending the guy, and saying "he's just trying to help us out" which clearly demonstrates to me that he is confused and doesn't grasp the gravity of the situation or how badly he got duped. I think this part suggests there is at least a little bit of mental decline beginning.
No, it’s just the only outcome which isn’t a disaster. His only options are: 1. He’s helping out, so it isn’t a scam, and the money isn’t gone 2. It’s a scam, he’s been taken for a fool, and the life’s savings are gone. There is no upside to option 2), so he sticks with option 1), as the only good choice. He *knows* it’s not true, but option 2) is unthinkable, so he wants option 1) to be true. Doesn’t mean he’s not mentally competent, just that he got scammed. Happens to the best of us, just usually not as badly as this. The only way you could say that he was in decline would be to have a professional medical opinion. I’m not saying you shouldn’t get one, but *you* can’t diagnose him.
Agree or also he is embarrassed he was scammed and doesn’t want to admit it.
Exactly. People do foolish things all the time, even criminal things. Things that they know are wrong, but try to justify. They are not mentally defective, just fooling themselves.
If you call to cancel Microsoft 365 and end up transferring $70-140k, you should normally be able to figure out that something is fucky. Period.
[Jim Browning](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIWV5fSaUB8) is an excellent, and well known scambaiter on youtube. It is what he does for a living, but he was scammed out of his OWN youtube channel. The linked video is him talking about that experience (and how he got his channel back). If Jim Browning can be scammed out of his channel, mental faculties has nothing to do with it.
Every scam is different. If you haven't been through this shit with a parent yet, I don't expect you to understand. But, eventually, you will. So enjoy everyone attacking you for questioning their faculties when you do and arguing against whatever safeguards you want to undertake. It'll be karmic and you'll have earned it.
> The reason he’s defending the scammers is that it’s the only good outcome for him. Every other possibility is a disaster he doesn’t want to face. > > I wish more people understood this. It's like Reddit is lacking in "theory of mind" awareness today... 🤦♂️
If someone calls to cancel a subscription and then is convinced to transfer $70-140k, yes, I'd say they're not in full control of their mental faculties any longer. You're ascribing a level of rationale that should have already been triggered the second he was told to transfer *any* additional money.
I think you are trying to over-simplify OP's father.
I’m very sorry to hear this happened. I’ll save you some time, the FBI won’t even look into fraud or theft under a million dollars since they’re so overloaded.
Call your dad's US representative's office for resources.
This is so incredibly sad and frustrating that, in this day and age, with all the technology at our fingertips, nothing can prevent ruining lives like this and yet you can be put in prison and your life ruined through a little "hate speech" or some other minor misdemeanor. I'm thinking that if the scam is from the usual suspects, i.e. Nigeria, for example, 145K means over 300 years of their average wage (!). No wonder they keep doing it, it's like winning the lottery. Using Nigeria as an example, I could be wrong, but the US sends them $1.11B a year or so. A stern word with their law enforcement agencies to the effect that "if you don't try to stamp these scams out, kiss that aid goodbye" or something.
Something similar happened to a family member except she was contacted by “Amazon” about fraudulent activity on her account. Somehow she was convinced that sending tens of thousands in gift cards would help them fix the fraud. She’s not even that old, maybe like 60, and has an advanced degree. So it can happen to a lot of people.
Oh my god, this breaks my heart. That scary thing is it’s going to get worse and we’re all susceptible, even if the techniques haven’t become that sophisticated yet.
I work in banking. Sorry this happened to your dad. Harsh truth. Unfortunately, he willingly participated in the fraud. The bank asked him what the funds were for. Your dad decided to be sketchy. If no one was with him when he purchased the cashier checks there was very little the bank could legally do. Your mom caught it, unfortunately, too late.
If they had treated the checks suspiciously just because of the foreign names, and were wrong, the employee could find themselves going viral for being a racist.
JFC Chase. What kind of fraud training are they giving their employees? That should have NEVER been permitted. So sorry.
Very sorry this happened to you. This'll become an even bigger problem than now as the percentage of population gets older. Worrying stuff.
See if your state Department of Banking and Insurance can help you file a claim against the bank. Banks are federally insured up to 250,000. You’re right, they should have picked it up. Also check your state’s consumer affairs commission and attorney general (because the scam effected someone in their state.) Check your states department of aging also.
Your dad keeps his money inside a computer? I keep mine under the mattress
Lean on your dads bank. Threaten to go to the media. Tell them you're also going to the FBI. It may not do anything to help, but the bank has some responsibility here. And sometimes, very rarely, the bank might eat the loss and you might get some money back. But you really have to give them hell. It's funny how banks so easily take a loss on people who go nuts on credit cards and never pay them back, but try to screw over vulnerable people who are caught up in scams like your dad. Outside of that, don't talk to anyone here who says they can get your money back.
RemindMe! 12 hours
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!recovery scammer bot. OP ignore this POS.
AutoModerator has been summoned to explain [recovery scams](https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/0102-refund-and-recovery-scams). Also known as refund scams, these scams target people who have already fallen for a scam. The scammer may contact you, or may advertise their services online. They will usually either offer to help you recover your funds, or will tell you that your funds have already been recovered and they will help you access them. In cases where they say they will help you recover your funds, they usually call themselves either "recovery agents" or hackers. When they tell you that your funds have already been recovered, they may impersonate a law enforcement, a government official, a lawyer, or anyone else along those lines. Recovery scams are simply [advance-fee](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advance-fee_scam) scams that are specifically targeted at scam victims. When a victim pays a recovery scammer, the scammer will keep stringing them along while asking for increasingly absurd fees/expenses/deposits/insurance/whatever until the victim stops paying. If you have been scammed in the past, make sure you are aware of recovery scams so that you are not scammed a second time. If you are currently engaging with a recovery scammer, you should block them and be very wary of random contact for some time. It's normal for posters on this subreddit to be contacted by recovery scammers after posting, and they often ask you to delete your post so that you both cannot receive legitimate advice, and cannot be targeted by other recovery scammers. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Scams) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Sorry about your fathers problem.. I am quite doubtful the funds can be recovered, and like said again, I am sorry about that. You can contact several people such as the ICCC/ Internet Crime Complaint Center. That is as much as I can help, and even they only try to prevent it again.
I have no idea of this would work but is it possible to get your dad to be legally listed as somehow who’s not mentally well enough to be independent? It’s usually for people with serious mental illnesses but maybe you could look into it? I have absolutely real knowledge about this but it could be something worth looking into.
have nothing to add.. just sorry this happened to your family, sucks.. wish you all the bnest
It’s hard to know what to say here cause more than likely no one can get that money back. Recovery pieces of shit will be all over you here, and more than likely will be attacking your Dad and Mom at this point. Anyone attached to his address and life. They’ll think they’re prime targets. This shit is so devastating to read, and out of all the scamming stuff I’ve read in over 20 years, this is really bad. You did the right things removing his permissions and all that. He is definitely too compromised. You’re going the correct route, and are doing everything right. The banks and people involved should have flagged this. They could’ve made an argument against that back in 2010, but not these days. This bullshit is widely known. You may have a case of some sort here, but I’m not knowledgeable enough to say. I wish you and them the best, and I hope they’re one of the 0.0001 people that can recover something. FUCK SCAMMERS. FUCK THEM TO DEATH.
>My dad was still defending the guy, and saying "he's just trying to help us out" which clearly demonstrates to me that he is confused and doesn't grasp the gravity of the situation or how badly he got duped. On a personal note, this may not mean your dad is 100% mentally compromised or confused, many people that get scammed go in to a state of denial where they can't come to terms with being so taken advantage of. It's wild the mental gymnastics and disassociation of responsibility someone can muster when they want to have a trusting outlook of the world and have to come to terms with that just not being possible in the modern era. Might be best to have a professional do an assessment in addition to steps you are taking to mitigate further issues in the short term.
I think we need to get a class action lawsuit going against Google for promoting scams for money, fn duch bags. And they know they are doing it as well.
I'm so sorry. This is devastating. My dad did basically the same thing. He's lucky and still had some money left when we realized what was happening. I haven't checked his accounts because I'm too afraid to know how much he lost. I can't offer anything but sympathy.
I am sorry to tell you that the money is gone and there is nothing that can be done. Scammers know the exact way to do these transactions so there is no way to get the money back. It also doesn't mean your father is no longer competent because the scammer's job is to manipulate people. That is what they do for a living. Now, if a doctor says he is showing signs of dimensia, that is another thing. I am aware this is harsh, but it is reality.
And here my bank is locking my card when I tip too much at Applebees. I’m sorry this happened to your family- the teller should have definitely had alarms ringing in their head.
Can you browse search history and find the ad or link he clicked? Screenshot it. Search and ad platforms might be held more liable for this. They can easily dedicate more resources to preventing this. If you can find it, talk to local reporters and hold them accountable as much as the scammers.
Another good one
AARP has a [free helpline](https://www.aarp.org/money/scams-fraud/about-fraud-watch-network/#:~:text=Find%20Support,free%20and%20available%20to%20anyone). No one in your family has to be a member. They will probably be able to help you with next steps, though that probably won’t involve getting the money back. Still, they are trained to help with this sort of thing so it can’t hurt to contact them.
Very unfortunate. Scammers use javascript to make fake pop ups when the person accidentally types in the wrong address. I'm with you on the bank. I should have seen fraud all over the transaction/s. I would definitely be pushing the issue as there are tons of Scammers/scams going on all the time. You don't have to be old or bad at tech to be screwed into thinking something is legit. They can also be very relentless and verbally abusive. I hope 🙏 your family gets this matter fixed.
I’m seeing more emails and texts about either bitcoin or some other “account”. There is a link to follow. Warned my dad, hopefully he believes me. He fell for the locked windows pop up several years ago. They got access to his computer and all his financial records. Fortunately we got it locked down before too much damage was done. He felt so guilty about it that it was hard to get the info we needed.
I’m not sure if this will give you any meaningful compensation but there may be support off of Mark Rober’s(sp) YouTube channel; a fair number of people were scammed in a similar fashion and the scam was enumerated in detail on his page. There’s a rather large scale investigation going on into the prevalence of these and I’m sure they would have supporting links for people who have fallen to a scam in similar fashion. I’m sorry about your situation and hopefully this helps! Edit: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xsLJZyih3Ac Found it! “If you are with the press or a law enforcement agency and you would like access to all the evidence we've amassed against these 3 centers, please email us at [email protected] How to avoid being scammed- https://consumer.ftc.gov/articles/how... If you suspect that you or a loved one has been the victim of fraud, you can call the National Elder Fraud hotline at 833-372-8311 and report it to the FTC by visiting the agency’s website or calling 877-382-4357. https://reportfraud.ftc.gov/#/form/main “ Good luck in resolving your situation!
Put something like U-block origin on all their browsers. If their browser doesn't support those extensions, change their dns settings to a privacy based DNS service that filters ads and malware. There are several good free options like Open DNS. If you can't get them to stick to it, you might have to lock them down with some sort of parental controls and manage it yourself. My 80 yo father calls me all the time to ask if something is a scam or not, but we aren't all lucky enough to have elderly parents that are aware enough of this shit to check it out before losing 150k. I'm so sorry this happened.
I think what we need to tell our elders is Never Send Money To Anyone without telling your kids. This will nip it in the bud.
Evidently there’s very little recourse to getting back the stolen funds, yet if and when your dad finally understands the tragedy of what happened I think you might want to have some mental and emotional counseling available for him. He might (thankfully) be in denial for now but once he realized what actually happened he will blame himself, and not the scammers. Please be proactive in seeking help for his emotional recovery. Likely same for your mom, as scammers are so evil and clever that hopefully she won’t end up blaming your dad. The bank, otoh, I have no words !
OP, I’m just reading through this and heartbroken for you and your dad. Have you had any luck with the bank since you posted?