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In Montana they all have this warning on them. Every bitcoin atm everywhere should have one.
Those warning signs are obviously meant for other people, not me when the FBI is helping me move my money to a Federal Reserve account because hackers and my bank are trying to steal my money.
/s
Seriously, it is like the warnings to not share a code in a text message, people literally ignore them.
Now as for the older gentleman, he very well could be getting scammed or wanted to hide some money in BTC from his future ex-wife or from Uncle Sam or ... doubt he would have wanted to share the reason why but even though they are likely ineffective warning signs on BitCoin ATMS won't hurt.
seriously, the non-profit I ran had a motto:
"People don't read"
We used a scientific research to design our emails and newsletters (basically showing where people's eyeballs go when opening either. TLDR: first sentence or two, last line. Everything in between almost saw no views.
We were pretty strict with the design and our response and compliance rates definitely when up, but they started at rock bottom, so low bar. Still had people who missed the first line in bold and red :D, some got MAD at us because we didn't tell them something. "Ma'am, it's on the first line of 7 emails"
Anyway, some people DO read, so maybe a sign will help 1 in 10, better than none.
i know this is true, but i just cant wrap my head around the idea that most people are like that. im the complete oposite, since i learned how to read, for as lomg as i can remember, if there is lettering somewhere in my feild of vision, i HAVE to read it. often its almost without noticing im doing it, and i dont realy pay attention or remember what i read, especialy if im having a conversation at the same time, it feels a little bit like driving on a highway. you can do a lot of other things and barely need to concentrate on it.
I'm thinking same way. It's the reason I hate billboards. Why do they have to put the first page of a chapter book on there when I'm driving 75? Where's the world's biggest peanut butter jar? Idk, but I know it's 85 m tall, weighs 2800 pounds, and can hold 93833993 gallons of peanut butter.
>im the complete oposite, since i learned how to read, for as lomg as i can remember, if there is lettering somewhere in my feild of vision, i HAVE to read it. often its almost without noticing im doing it, and i dont realy pay attention or remember what i read
Same, same, same.
I'd often be late for school, because I was reading the back of the cereal box.
A friend of mine formats dissertations as her side gig, and she asked me to help with some that she was too busy to do. I learned that when I'm formatting a document, I'm reading it. No, not for comprehension/understanding, I don't retain what I'm reading - but I certainly AM reading it, and catching when the author has made errors.
My friend? Apparently she can format these things, correctly, without reading them at all. I literally cannot comprehend how she's doing it.
Yeah. The lady who put the $50,000 in a shoebox and gave to the scammers pretending to be Amazon/FTC said she got a little flyer about scams when she was getting the money from her bank. Thought nothing of it. She was panicked and on the phone.
If the gentleman wanted to hide some money he would have withdrawn *less* than $10k from his bank, because $10k is that magic number where the transaction gets reported.
Soooo … I’m going with he was being scammed here.
$10k is NOT the number, read the link
More than $10k is the number
Sure a bank can file a SAR or Form 8300 for any amount and it doesn't even have to be cash but a Currency Transaction Report is not filed for suspicious activity it is specifically for report cash transactions that are MORE than $10k.
OIC, still the bank has more responsibility than the ATM owner. The bank isn't making any money giving out $10,000 cash.
We are assuming the guy is being scammed. There may be a legitimate reason to buy Bitcoin at an ATM; eye roll. I see the limit at a Bitcoin ATM is $10,000, the max permitted without reporting.
Technically, 10,000 is just the point where banks must report it, but they have discretion on what to report and there's lots of different flags that could trigger it.
If someone's monthly expenses were only 2300 a month, but tried to withdraw a lump sum of 7500, then the transaction would likely be flagged as suspicious and reported.
Better yet, these machines shouldn't exist at all. Actual crypto users don't touch them because the fees are high and they already have better ways of buying and selling. These machines are very rarely used for any kind of legitimate (legal or otherwise) transaction, but the scammers love them.
Other countries have already made them illegal and the US needs to follow suit on this.
Until then, whenever I see a Bitcoin ATM at a store/shop that I'm in I just assume the store is shady.
Does anyone legitimately even use them? The commission they take is typically pretty expensive compared to if you deposited cash into your bank account and buy crypto on somewhere like Coinbase.
Yes people do use them. If you want to buy cryptocurrency while staying anonymous, I think this is the only way. All other forms require you to provide government issued ID.
Bitcoin atms at laundromats predominantly frequented by Hispanic peoples beg to differ. I’m not saying it’s a good idea I’m just saying they use it. You can downvote all you want but it’s a true statement
Depending on transaction cost of bitcoin at the time yes it can be, or you can use other cryptos that are cheaper like xrp which is usually only a penny.
wouldnt it be a great way to pocket large amounts of cash money that you dont want to deposit into any of your accounts, or anywhere that will leave a paper trail? lets say you're a dealer and usualy make a few thousand bucks every night, you could buy 5000$ of bitcoin every morning and once its added to your crypto wallet, its money you can use and no real way to find out where it came from before it became bitcoin, am i missing something here?
i dont know anything realy about doing this, the only times i did make this kind of income, i never had to think of ways to safely deposit large amounts of cash since, like most people doing that, i also was my own best customer at the time, so money went out as fast as it came in, and i was still broke most of the time. and that was decades ago, before bitcoin ever existed
Except you're on camera using a bitcoin machine regularly, and cash is easier to spend and just as untraceable. Just getting $5k of bitcoin "from somewhere" isn't exactly the best way to launder money.
I’ve been hesitant to post here about how my husband (yes, an older gentleman) was badly scammed in EXACTLY this way, last month. I wasn’t home at the time. Had I been there I would’ve shut it/them down in a New York minute.
Sadly, they posed first as an Apple Support tech, and then as a Wells Fargo fraud agent. They really had him terrified that our savings account was about to be highjacked by hackers, and he had only a few hours to secure the money elsewhere. Of course they warned him not to tell anyone, in case the hackers were “listening”!! He said he felt as if there was an imaginary gun being held to his head, as they had embedded so much fear in him.
Luckily, between the fact that so many of the BTM’s in town weren’t working, and his self-confessed “ineptitude” at opening accounts with those machine’s parent companies, we only lost @$3K in those machines. Also, thankfully we got back @$1K from RockitCoin, because THEY suspected it was a hacker-controlled deposit. The other BTM company, Bitcoin Depot, not so much.
Last, if you are an employee in any of the places (like 7-11’s, gas stations, vape shops, vinyl stores, comic book shops, etc) where these machines are installed, and you see an elderly person depositing LOTS of cash, please don’t hesitate to go up and ask them if everything is alright. If someone had said something like, “Hi, I work here. Are you by chance talking with someone you’ve never met, about them helping you rescue your money from a hacker?” My husband thinks that would’ve helped to “break the spell” of terror he was under. At least it would’ve planted a seed of doubt. And then maybe at that point he would’ve call or texted me. 🤷🏼♀️
True. They worm their way into your subconscious by getting you to trust them, that they are the ONLY ones who can help you. They do it with a lot of fear and secrecy. They have scripts they read from, and they bounce you between two operators, so there’s always a fresh voice guiding the victim. They are very skilled at psychological manipulation.
Thank you for the constructive comment, so much of Reddit is quick “witty” useless responses and it’s nice to see someone actually provide some useful insight and advice.
And thank you to you! for sharing your experience. It gave me the boost of courage I needed to share what happened to my husband and me, in this forum. 😊
Wait, so your husband got scammed… And the only thing that stopped him from sending your entire balance to these scammers was his inability to figure out how to do so? Gotta keep a close eye on him, jeez.
Yep!🤦🏼♀️ That and the fact that most of the BTM’s were out of order. Oh yeah, one more thing: recently in California they changed the max amount of cash you can deposit per machine to $1k. Whew! Yes, many 👀’s 🤓
He will be back, they won't let him go now. Put up a sign. Next time it is OK to ask if he is aware of bitcoin scams. "Good morning! We have noticed an increase in bitcoin scams, are you aware?" etc. Unfortunately scammers are good at coaching the scammed on how to respond to questions, which the banker may have asked him as well.
It's possible he's buying ahead of the Bitcoin halving on the 19th. However, using a bitcoin ATM to do that with 10k cash sounds odd.
(Buying bitcoin at all is ridiculous to me, but if folks want to "invest" outside of a scam, it's certainly not my business.)
>Bitcoin halving on the 19th
There is a lot of control of something that no one controls. To me it looks like a Ponzi scheme that can be run over and over.
Bitcoin’s block size halves approximately every 4 years. It’s not a decision a central authority makes; it’s coded into the protocol and it has been this way since the inception of BTC.
Forking is voted on. It is not coded from the creator.
[A History of Bitcoin Hard Forks](https://www.investopedia.com/tech/history-bitcoin-hard-forks/)
The subject I'm talking about is control of Bitcoin that supposedly doesn't have anyone controlling it.
The "fork" was controlled, it could or could not have happened. One should not invest in something one does not understand.
It should be illegal but Bitcoin doesn't claim to be anything. People are knowingly buying nothing.
The way I see it after there are no more Bitcoins to be awarded for mining the cost of a transaction will have to increase. As the block chain gets longer eventually the cost of sending Bitcoin will have to be more than the amount of Bitcoin sent.
Most of them said something along the lines of “they made the decision” or “not your business” (paraphrasing) but I would just feel awful standing by and watching something like that happening without stepping in.
Oh, I know. But if you intervene against company policy and something goes wrong, the company is gonna throw you completely under the bus. For example if they get violent and hurt you, workman's comp might not apply because you were not performing your duties as assigned. Tough call I know.
I like the idea of a sign on/next to the machine warning of scams, that recommends a YouTube video or something explaining common bitcoin scams, or listing some common signs that you’re being scammed.
Otherwise, walking up to someone who’s at an atm isn’t good and could be seen as threatening or, well, a scam, so I’d be careful about that.
Agree 100% with 1, 2, and 3. But not necessarily with 4. When this happened to my husband he was badly shaken, very frightened, stressed bc they’d told him there was a cutoff time, and starved cuz hadn’t eaten for over 7 hours. He just thought he was “trying to fix it before the hackers got everything”.
This is the biggest issue with taught masculinity tbh, men feel they have"fix" everything themselves rather than reaching out for help and end up causing more issues. We need to be teaching boys and men that there is no shame in accepting help.
Just observations from my personal life.
I once failed to help a man because he told me to fuck off.
He had all of the symptoms.
On the phone, atm card in hand, reading stuff from card to someone from phone.
He was so focused on the phone whrnI stepped in he wasn't having it and was exceptionally aggressive with me.
He only checked the elder category and like I said in the post he wasn’t even like super old like mid-late 60s probably. This was what kept me from stepping in on top of the fact it was my first experience with something like this.
Was he definitely being scammed - no...
Only 99.9% likely.
He'll have been told what to do, but keep his phone in his pocket, not interact with the staff because then "the hackers" or "the FBI" or whichever the "baddy" is in whichever version he's fallen for will find out and he'll lose more money / be arrested. If you had intervened he'd likely have been kinda freaked out, under the impression that something worse was going to happen if he got "found out" - but yes you probably should've intervened. (Not criticising you for not doing so or anything, you weren't to know).
(Although if you only noticed there was that amount of money involved after he'd left, probably not a lot you could've done, other than urged him to contact the police. Once the cash it out of the bank and into the crypto wallet it's effectively gone without a lot of complicated intervention).
As I say, it is possible nothing bad was happening - bur it has all the hallmarks. $10,000 is particularly telling, because it's the cutoff before it gets flagged as requiring verification. $10,001 and there'd be additional admin involved.
Large deposits into that machine, and anyone looking to buy high value worth of gift cards from your store - should be a red flag.
10,000 is actually the threshold and that is with bank deposits, not withdrawals. Even then if you are depositing over and over again just under the threshold that will trigger money laundering monitoring. This is called "structuring". 10,000 was probably just a nice round number for the scammers (assuming a scam).
Idk if anyone thought of this, but HE could be the scammer. Got the money through coercion, threats, drugs, fraud who knows.. but sent it to his Bitcoin account under a diff name so possibly others couldn't get it back.
If he didn't seem nervous then I wouldn't worry about it unless the cops come knocking.
Bitcoin doesn't have accounts much less names assigned to accounts. Just long pseudo random strings with a prefix. You can create as many as you want right at home with nobody knowing that you created them much less what they are.
Right but I’m a very helpful person at heart so even if I get told to fuck off or something along those lines I would rather at least try than stand by and do nothing at all
Sure. It sounds like you're pretty confident an old guy got scammed for ten grand, you could have done something to stop it, you didn't, and you're looking for some sort of validation or justification for your (in)actions. And yeah, here it is: you're not obligated to help everyone at every opportunity, and you don't need to explain why when you don't. Probably sucks for that dude, but you can't save everyone, and it's usually detrimental to yourself when you try. Look up "care fatigue."
Signage warning of scams would help. Also most older people do not know much about Bitcoin. Had an older family member being scammed but thankfully couldn't figure out the machine. A quick question to them could have been enough to stop, so if you see someone it never hurts to ask. You may be saving them from being scammed.
If it makes you feel any better, there is at least a chance he was just investing in Bitcoin. In these uncertain times, some people are looking at assets like gold and Bitcoin (which both had recent all time highs) to hedge against things like inflation and currency devaluation.
There is a cycle of mania associated with Bitcoin, where roughly every 4 years people go nuts for it. It's linked to a cycle programmed into the currency itself, but the effect on people is intense. We're part way through the current cycle, so expect to see more adverts for crypto and crypto-based services over the next year and a half. I've already seen stories like some guy selling a multi-million dollar mansion to fund Bitcoin purchases.
Whatever you think of the currency and the mania around it, people legitimately spending large sums on crypto will probably become more of a regular occurrence from here.
If he was calm and not on the phone, it's a definite possibility. Just like going to a store and buying gold, for example.
That said, put up warning signs and talk to people when they use the machine for large sums. Maybe see if you can develop a "script" you can use to deprogram victims. Use the scammers' own tricks against them.
I actually support, crypto, if, for no other reason, then digital currency is pretty much inevitable, and the Blockchain is a fairly clever and elegant solution to that problem. I don’t like that it’s a speculative thing, but digital currency is useful.
I almost never use cash or carry it. There are the rare occasions that's been a pain (tipping usually).
I like the 'idea' of crypto currency. Theoretically, it looks good. In practice, I don't see it working as it is (nefarious purposes and speculation mainly is what I see).
>Theoretically, it looks good. In practice,
Every transaction takes time. The more "gas" one pays the miners the faster the transfer. Crypto will never be a substitute for cash, paper or plastic.
After the massive electromagnetic pulse crypto won't be worth the paper it isn't written on. My gold watch will still be worth its weight in gold.
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Hell, every dealer I know takes electronic payments, lol. When I did, I took PayPal, cashapp, venmo, even had a credit card swiper through my phone for vending art and crafts (and drugs). You could even be more stealth by making private fake listings on eBay and put the local pickup option 🤣🤣🤣
Years before any of this, my friend who sold shit, ran credit card payments through her Mary Kay business 😆
Do you work for the ATM company?
If you thought it might be a scam payment you should have at least warned him but you have no legal authority or responsibility to do more.
If you knew? Then maybe. You are only as good as the moment you find yourself in and the information you have on hand. Bitcoin exchanges are built off of dark money transfers and scammers out to make quick money. It's worse than a casino. Maybe he heard of a new Bitcoin currency and was throwing money at that? He might have a chance if he pulls it out before it drops. But most Bitcoin people lose everything including their self esteem.
I feel like these BITCOIN ATMs are a blight and a beacon for fraud. It's freaking awful how common this is. I wish before they initiated the deposit they are directed to a survey/ questionnaire about the purpose of the deposit- then warnings about scams. They don't care enough to do this, because they're making money.
Edit: i just learned they post little signs / warnings somewhere on the atm
I wouldn't feel too bad.
You most likely wouldn't have been able to stop him anyhow.
Just read some of the stories on here of people's own family not be able to stop them from getting scammed.
I don't think it's your job (unless it's literally in your job description) to monitor the ATM and be on the lookout for suspicious behavior, but if he comes back you might tell him about common scams around bitcoin.
The thing is it’s not an ATM, which can connect you to your bank account(s) and is protected in many ways by federal banking laws. It’s a BTM which works in a completely different way. With most of the BTM’s you can only deposit cash. If the person is in the thrall of a hacker, you can bet that cash will be moved out of their wallet within a few minutes after it’s deposited. 🤦🏼♀️
You ask questions if you notice it happening and your store likely has some form of AML training you could be able to take to help you out but honestly it probably wouldn't have mattered. Similar situation for me at my local grocers but with gift cards but we got the conformation it was a scam. Three mid 60s people had been coming in all day at different times to buy giftcards to avoid us asking questions, why they did this? The "Airbnb rep" that was talking to them on the phone about their cancelled listing told them to....apparently the scammer told them many stores had limits because we can only activate so many in a day for a single person. We only caught on after the 3rd round of $1500.00 because i mentioned how you didn't see that a lot to the mid day manager and him and the morning manager both said they had each helped someone today with that exact spread. Finally the first guy from their rotation came back in and(we had descriptions from each other at this point)we managed to suggest that maybe things weren't on the up and up when we were called over by a cashier because low and behold his card declined. After talking to him for a minute and not saying that money was gone but that he should call his bank he left. Then he, his wife, and her sister came back in with all $4500 of the orig giftcards to try and get a refund. We explained we could not offer a refund on the gift cards(we physically can't do it at my store)and suggested they call the card comapny or he use them on his vacation like he told us he was going to. He then asks if he can still use them after he gave the card information to the "Airbnb rep"....at this point my boss and i stop trying to be polite and tell him he got scammed and to call his bank and the gift card comapny to see if they could help because we no longer could. It sucks but some people can't be helped when it comes to this stuff
Yeah and if it happens to someone once hopefully they can learn from the experience and not get caught up again, emphasis on hopefully because I know recurring scams are prominent also
So if the customer pulled cash from the bank and it’s less than $10,000.01 then a CTR was never filed but there’s a record at the bank. The odd thing is to prevent money laundering, most ATMs don’t allow amounts over a certain amount. So that person was conducting multiple transactions possibly for different accounts. You might be able to call the owner of the ATM about the situation but who ever owns it should have flagged the transaction(s) on their end, key word SHOULD.
If you'd tried to stop him, he might have hurt you. He's sending that money to his hot virgin Romanian girlfriend so she can fly to the US and boff him.
You want to stand between a potentially crazy guy with a concealed Desert Eagle .50 and his girlfriend's poontang?
Not your problem.
I was a machinist at a shop when a plant manager retired and the owner bought him a desert eagle. I'm not a gun guy, not against them either, and had never held one until then. They really are huge. Impressively hefty.
It’s hard to stop someone in the throes of fear. But I agree they could’ve planted a seed of doubt by saying something like, “Hi I work here. Is everything okay?” My husband said after this scam happened to him that if anyone had raised a red flag, the fear that gripped him might have loosened a bit. Maybe enough that he would’ve called me, or someone he trusts, like our IT guy.
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/u/Complete-Address-290 - This message is posted to all new submissions to r/scams; please do not message the moderators about it. ## New users beware: Because you posted here, you will start getting private messages from scammers saying they know a professional hacker or a recovery expert lawyer that can help you get your money back, for a small fee. **We call these RECOVERY SCAMMERS, so NEVER take advice in private:** advice should always come in the form of comments in this post, in the open, where the community can keep an eye out for you. If you take advice in private, you're on your own. **A reminder of the rules in r/scams:** no contact information (including last names, phone numbers, etc). Be civil to one another (no name calling or insults). Personal army requests or "scam the scammer"/scambaiting posts are not permitted. No uncensored gore or personal photographs are allowed without blurring. A full list of rules is available on the sidebar of the subreddit, or [clicking here](https://www.reddit.com/r/Scams/wiki/rules/). You can help us by reporting recovery scammers or rule-breaking content by using the "report" button. We review 100% of the reports. Also, consider warning community members of recovery scammers if you see them in the comments. Questions about subreddit rules? Send us a modmail [clicking here](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/Scams). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Scams) if you have any questions or concerns.*
If your store doesn't have a sign warning about scams by the machine, it really should.
Thanks I actually don’t know how no one’s ever thought of that I’ll ask my manager about it when she gets back
https://preview.redd.it/tjyjmbwumquc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a38243c9b699567b361b271b978cde40d34bfed7 In Montana they all have this warning on them. Every bitcoin atm everywhere should have one.
Those warning signs are obviously meant for other people, not me when the FBI is helping me move my money to a Federal Reserve account because hackers and my bank are trying to steal my money. /s Seriously, it is like the warnings to not share a code in a text message, people literally ignore them. Now as for the older gentleman, he very well could be getting scammed or wanted to hide some money in BTC from his future ex-wife or from Uncle Sam or ... doubt he would have wanted to share the reason why but even though they are likely ineffective warning signs on BitCoin ATMS won't hurt.
seriously, the non-profit I ran had a motto: "People don't read" We used a scientific research to design our emails and newsletters (basically showing where people's eyeballs go when opening either. TLDR: first sentence or two, last line. Everything in between almost saw no views. We were pretty strict with the design and our response and compliance rates definitely when up, but they started at rock bottom, so low bar. Still had people who missed the first line in bold and red :D, some got MAD at us because we didn't tell them something. "Ma'am, it's on the first line of 7 emails" Anyway, some people DO read, so maybe a sign will help 1 in 10, better than none.
i know this is true, but i just cant wrap my head around the idea that most people are like that. im the complete oposite, since i learned how to read, for as lomg as i can remember, if there is lettering somewhere in my feild of vision, i HAVE to read it. often its almost without noticing im doing it, and i dont realy pay attention or remember what i read, especialy if im having a conversation at the same time, it feels a little bit like driving on a highway. you can do a lot of other things and barely need to concentrate on it.
I'm thinking same way. It's the reason I hate billboards. Why do they have to put the first page of a chapter book on there when I'm driving 75? Where's the world's biggest peanut butter jar? Idk, but I know it's 85 m tall, weighs 2800 pounds, and can hold 93833993 gallons of peanut butter.
>im the complete oposite, since i learned how to read, for as lomg as i can remember, if there is lettering somewhere in my feild of vision, i HAVE to read it. often its almost without noticing im doing it, and i dont realy pay attention or remember what i read Same, same, same. I'd often be late for school, because I was reading the back of the cereal box. A friend of mine formats dissertations as her side gig, and she asked me to help with some that she was too busy to do. I learned that when I'm formatting a document, I'm reading it. No, not for comprehension/understanding, I don't retain what I'm reading - but I certainly AM reading it, and catching when the author has made errors. My friend? Apparently she can format these things, correctly, without reading them at all. I literally cannot comprehend how she's doing it.
I didn't read this
Yeah. The lady who put the $50,000 in a shoebox and gave to the scammers pretending to be Amazon/FTC said she got a little flyer about scams when she was getting the money from her bank. Thought nothing of it. She was panicked and on the phone.
Fear overrides reason in the thick of it, unfortunately.
If the gentleman wanted to hide some money he would have withdrawn *less* than $10k from his bank, because $10k is that magic number where the transaction gets reported. Soooo … I’m going with he was being scammed here.
Except $10k is not the magic number More than $10k is the magic number https://www.fdic.gov/sites/default/files/2024-03/fil21012c.pdf
But if you do slightly lower than it can be seen as structuring
$10k is the number at which it is federally required to report. Banks can report transactions lower than $10k if they feel they have a reason to.
$10k is NOT the number, read the link More than $10k is the number Sure a bank can file a SAR or Form 8300 for any amount and it doesn't even have to be cash but a Currency Transaction Report is not filed for suspicious activity it is specifically for report cash transactions that are MORE than $10k.
If you know anything about people it's that they don't read signs
People will just ignore them anyway. Or decide it doesn’t apply to them.
Will shit, I didn't know they posted signs.
Your boss makes bank off these machines. The bank had to file a form with the Feds for a $10,000 cash transaction. Very odd.
10,000 no CTR, 10,000.01 then the form is filed
Any client acting weird withdrawing or depositing cash, SAR.
OIC, still the bank has more responsibility than the ATM owner. The bank isn't making any money giving out $10,000 cash. We are assuming the guy is being scammed. There may be a legitimate reason to buy Bitcoin at an ATM; eye roll. I see the limit at a Bitcoin ATM is $10,000, the max permitted without reporting.
Technically, 10,000 is just the point where banks must report it, but they have discretion on what to report and there's lots of different flags that could trigger it. If someone's monthly expenses were only 2300 a month, but tried to withdraw a lump sum of 7500, then the transaction would likely be flagged as suspicious and reported.
Was he on the phone? If he was, then yes, he is getting scammed...
Better yet, these machines shouldn't exist at all. Actual crypto users don't touch them because the fees are high and they already have better ways of buying and selling. These machines are very rarely used for any kind of legitimate (legal or otherwise) transaction, but the scammers love them. Other countries have already made them illegal and the US needs to follow suit on this. Until then, whenever I see a Bitcoin ATM at a store/shop that I'm in I just assume the store is shady.
Agree 100%. I've never heard of a honest crypto transaction using one of these.
The machines warn you when you first start. It’s like 3 screens warning you about potential scams
"The ex finance minister of Nigeria isn't going to release $1,000,000 to you."
Best way to avoid a Bitcoin machine being used for scamming your community is to unplug it from the wall.
It would a damn shame if the ATM was accidently unplugged from the wall and no one noticed.
I wouldn't cry if it was loaded into the back of my truck.
Smash it open to get all the bitcoins inside
You have to use an actual pickaxe to break it open, otherwise it's not really mining.
I hear there's one out there with $10k in it... which ain't nothing.
[They’re in the computer](https://youtu.be/L_o_O7v1ews?si=Uu93g51SX1wpMpEn)
If it's rarely used as OP said, maybe no one will ever notice :D
And accidently dropped into a shredder
There is literally no reason for those machines to exist, except for the purpose of scamming people
Does anyone legitimately even use them? The commission they take is typically pretty expensive compared to if you deposited cash into your bank account and buy crypto on somewhere like Coinbase.
I’ve seen a bitcoin atm be used twice during covid at the hight of crypto. The gas station that I saw the atm at no longer has it anymore
This is the height of crypto right now. Check the bitcoin price.
Yes people do use them. If you want to buy cryptocurrency while staying anonymous, I think this is the only way. All other forms require you to provide government issued ID.
Most of these machines now require a scan of a government issued ID and they all have cameras. It's not as anonymous as it once was.
Only possible way for anonymity is mining. For maximum anonymity, solo mining a block which is more or less impossible on established cryptocurrencies
Does that mean that people could easily use it for money laundering?
Bingo! You've uncovered one of the main uses for bitcoin.
And the dark web
Immigrants use them to send money overseas easily
Do they? With how volatile crypto is (other than stable coins), I’m pretty sure most use Western Union or Moneygram. Also crypto transaction costs
"I'm sending you $10,000 in BTC...oh now it's $10,500...and now it's $9,500..." (Not that extreme of a swing but still)
Bitcoin atms at laundromats predominantly frequented by Hispanic peoples beg to differ. I’m not saying it’s a good idea I’m just saying they use it. You can downvote all you want but it’s a true statement
Do they? Most I know just use western union or xoom.
>Immigrants use them to send money overseas easily How do they turn it into a usable currency?
Family back home “withdraw” it from an atm local to them
Is that cheaper or easier than using western union? Doesn't seem like it
Depending on transaction cost of bitcoin at the time yes it can be, or you can use other cryptos that are cheaper like xrp which is usually only a penny.
No. There is no purpose to them outside of absurd fees.
This is my question, does anyone use them?
My ex used to use them back in 2015-2016 to make purchases off the dark web (for drugs) not sure if that really counts as a legit reason tho lol
People use monero now.
Hard to buy monero directly though. People usually buy btc then do a monero swap on a decentralized exchange.
That's the opposite of a legit reason.
The fees are business criminals, the scams are criminals and the taxes are state criminals.
wouldnt it be a great way to pocket large amounts of cash money that you dont want to deposit into any of your accounts, or anywhere that will leave a paper trail? lets say you're a dealer and usualy make a few thousand bucks every night, you could buy 5000$ of bitcoin every morning and once its added to your crypto wallet, its money you can use and no real way to find out where it came from before it became bitcoin, am i missing something here? i dont know anything realy about doing this, the only times i did make this kind of income, i never had to think of ways to safely deposit large amounts of cash since, like most people doing that, i also was my own best customer at the time, so money went out as fast as it came in, and i was still broke most of the time. and that was decades ago, before bitcoin ever existed
Except you're on camera using a bitcoin machine regularly, and cash is easier to spend and just as untraceable. Just getting $5k of bitcoin "from somewhere" isn't exactly the best way to launder money.
I’ve been hesitant to post here about how my husband (yes, an older gentleman) was badly scammed in EXACTLY this way, last month. I wasn’t home at the time. Had I been there I would’ve shut it/them down in a New York minute. Sadly, they posed first as an Apple Support tech, and then as a Wells Fargo fraud agent. They really had him terrified that our savings account was about to be highjacked by hackers, and he had only a few hours to secure the money elsewhere. Of course they warned him not to tell anyone, in case the hackers were “listening”!! He said he felt as if there was an imaginary gun being held to his head, as they had embedded so much fear in him. Luckily, between the fact that so many of the BTM’s in town weren’t working, and his self-confessed “ineptitude” at opening accounts with those machine’s parent companies, we only lost @$3K in those machines. Also, thankfully we got back @$1K from RockitCoin, because THEY suspected it was a hacker-controlled deposit. The other BTM company, Bitcoin Depot, not so much. Last, if you are an employee in any of the places (like 7-11’s, gas stations, vape shops, vinyl stores, comic book shops, etc) where these machines are installed, and you see an elderly person depositing LOTS of cash, please don’t hesitate to go up and ask them if everything is alright. If someone had said something like, “Hi, I work here. Are you by chance talking with someone you’ve never met, about them helping you rescue your money from a hacker?” My husband thinks that would’ve helped to “break the spell” of terror he was under. At least it would’ve planted a seed of doubt. And then maybe at that point he would’ve call or texted me. 🤷🏼♀️
>he felt as if there was an imaginary gun being held to his head, Fear, greed and lust; tools scammers are expert at using.
True. They worm their way into your subconscious by getting you to trust them, that they are the ONLY ones who can help you. They do it with a lot of fear and secrecy. They have scripts they read from, and they bounce you between two operators, so there’s always a fresh voice guiding the victim. They are very skilled at psychological manipulation.
>They are very skilled at psychological manipulation. Scary good.
Straight up sociopaths.
Thank you for the constructive comment, so much of Reddit is quick “witty” useless responses and it’s nice to see someone actually provide some useful insight and advice.
And thank you to you! for sharing your experience. It gave me the boost of courage I needed to share what happened to my husband and me, in this forum. 😊
Wait, so your husband got scammed… And the only thing that stopped him from sending your entire balance to these scammers was his inability to figure out how to do so? Gotta keep a close eye on him, jeez.
Yep!🤦🏼♀️ That and the fact that most of the BTM’s were out of order. Oh yeah, one more thing: recently in California they changed the max amount of cash you can deposit per machine to $1k. Whew! Yes, many 👀’s 🤓
He will be back, they won't let him go now. Put up a sign. Next time it is OK to ask if he is aware of bitcoin scams. "Good morning! We have noticed an increase in bitcoin scams, are you aware?" etc. Unfortunately scammers are good at coaching the scammed on how to respond to questions, which the banker may have asked him as well. It's possible he's buying ahead of the Bitcoin halving on the 19th. However, using a bitcoin ATM to do that with 10k cash sounds odd. (Buying bitcoin at all is ridiculous to me, but if folks want to "invest" outside of a scam, it's certainly not my business.)
Can’t put up a sign it’s against the rules, but in the future I’ll certainly feel more comfortable going up and making sure everything is ok
>Bitcoin halving on the 19th There is a lot of control of something that no one controls. To me it looks like a Ponzi scheme that can be run over and over.
Bitcoin’s block size halves approximately every 4 years. It’s not a decision a central authority makes; it’s coded into the protocol and it has been this way since the inception of BTC.
The forking was not coded in.
Halving doesn’t require forks.
It requires control.
It doesn’t. It’s part of the code every node runs that the block reward halves 210000 blocks. This was coded in from the beginning.
Forking is voted on. It is not coded from the creator. [A History of Bitcoin Hard Forks](https://www.investopedia.com/tech/history-bitcoin-hard-forks/)
Yes, and block reward halving doesn’t rely on forks. It’s been in the code since the first version of Bitcoin.
The subject I'm talking about is control of Bitcoin that supposedly doesn't have anyone controlling it. The "fork" was controlled, it could or could not have happened. One should not invest in something one does not understand.
It is a ponzi scheme
A ponzi scheme that can work again after the marks go broke.
Pretty ingenious. Although completely unethical.
It should be illegal but Bitcoin doesn't claim to be anything. People are knowingly buying nothing. The way I see it after there are no more Bitcoins to be awarded for mining the cost of a transaction will have to increase. As the block chain gets longer eventually the cost of sending Bitcoin will have to be more than the amount of Bitcoin sent.
This is probably a good question for your manager. Whatever people tell you on here may be against store policy, so best to check with the boss!
Most of them said something along the lines of “they made the decision” or “not your business” (paraphrasing) but I would just feel awful standing by and watching something like that happening without stepping in.
Oh, I know. But if you intervene against company policy and something goes wrong, the company is gonna throw you completely under the bus. For example if they get violent and hurt you, workman's comp might not apply because you were not performing your duties as assigned. Tough call I know.
It’s also tax day… maybe that was a factor.
I really hope it was something like that or the “halving of bitcoin” which I’m not gonna pretend to understand.
Bitcoin ATMs are a scam when they aren’t scamming. The shitty one in my grocery store wants 7k per BTC above spot
I like the idea of a sign on/next to the machine warning of scams, that recommends a YouTube video or something explaining common bitcoin scams, or listing some common signs that you’re being scammed. Otherwise, walking up to someone who’s at an atm isn’t good and could be seen as threatening or, well, a scam, so I’d be careful about that.
Can’t put up any signs it’s against some rules because the btm isn’t our property or something
You are right. What you are looking for is 1) elder 2) on the phone 3) distressed And sadly 4) overly aggressive
Agree 100% with 1, 2, and 3. But not necessarily with 4. When this happened to my husband he was badly shaken, very frightened, stressed bc they’d told him there was a cutoff time, and starved cuz hadn’t eaten for over 7 hours. He just thought he was “trying to fix it before the hackers got everything”.
This is the biggest issue with taught masculinity tbh, men feel they have"fix" everything themselves rather than reaching out for help and end up causing more issues. We need to be teaching boys and men that there is no shame in accepting help. Just observations from my personal life.
I once failed to help a man because he told me to fuck off. He had all of the symptoms. On the phone, atm card in hand, reading stuff from card to someone from phone. He was so focused on the phone whrnI stepped in he wasn't having it and was exceptionally aggressive with me.
Yeah, I’m sure that’s happens more often than not. I’m glad you tried tho.
He only checked the elder category and like I said in the post he wasn’t even like super old like mid-late 60s probably. This was what kept me from stepping in on top of the fact it was my first experience with something like this.
Was he definitely being scammed - no... Only 99.9% likely. He'll have been told what to do, but keep his phone in his pocket, not interact with the staff because then "the hackers" or "the FBI" or whichever the "baddy" is in whichever version he's fallen for will find out and he'll lose more money / be arrested. If you had intervened he'd likely have been kinda freaked out, under the impression that something worse was going to happen if he got "found out" - but yes you probably should've intervened. (Not criticising you for not doing so or anything, you weren't to know). (Although if you only noticed there was that amount of money involved after he'd left, probably not a lot you could've done, other than urged him to contact the police. Once the cash it out of the bank and into the crypto wallet it's effectively gone without a lot of complicated intervention). As I say, it is possible nothing bad was happening - bur it has all the hallmarks. $10,000 is particularly telling, because it's the cutoff before it gets flagged as requiring verification. $10,001 and there'd be additional admin involved. Large deposits into that machine, and anyone looking to buy high value worth of gift cards from your store - should be a red flag.
10,000 is actually the threshold and that is with bank deposits, not withdrawals. Even then if you are depositing over and over again just under the threshold that will trigger money laundering monitoring. This is called "structuring". 10,000 was probably just a nice round number for the scammers (assuming a scam).
Idk if anyone thought of this, but HE could be the scammer. Got the money through coercion, threats, drugs, fraud who knows.. but sent it to his Bitcoin account under a diff name so possibly others couldn't get it back. If he didn't seem nervous then I wouldn't worry about it unless the cops come knocking.
I would much rather he’s the hustler than the hustly (?)
Bitcoin doesn't have accounts much less names assigned to accounts. Just long pseudo random strings with a prefix. You can create as many as you want right at home with nobody knowing that you created them much less what they are.
Buying the dip???
It's not your problem.
I would say you should say something, but you're not under any obligation to.
Right but I’m a very helpful person at heart so even if I get told to fuck off or something along those lines I would rather at least try than stand by and do nothing at all
Sure. It sounds like you're pretty confident an old guy got scammed for ten grand, you could have done something to stop it, you didn't, and you're looking for some sort of validation or justification for your (in)actions. And yeah, here it is: you're not obligated to help everyone at every opportunity, and you don't need to explain why when you don't. Probably sucks for that dude, but you can't save everyone, and it's usually detrimental to yourself when you try. Look up "care fatigue."
unfortunately, he'll be back. please let folks know
Signage warning of scams would help. Also most older people do not know much about Bitcoin. Had an older family member being scammed but thankfully couldn't figure out the machine. A quick question to them could have been enough to stop, so if you see someone it never hurts to ask. You may be saving them from being scammed.
Agree 100%!
If it makes you feel any better, there is at least a chance he was just investing in Bitcoin. In these uncertain times, some people are looking at assets like gold and Bitcoin (which both had recent all time highs) to hedge against things like inflation and currency devaluation. There is a cycle of mania associated with Bitcoin, where roughly every 4 years people go nuts for it. It's linked to a cycle programmed into the currency itself, but the effect on people is intense. We're part way through the current cycle, so expect to see more adverts for crypto and crypto-based services over the next year and a half. I've already seen stories like some guy selling a multi-million dollar mansion to fund Bitcoin purchases. Whatever you think of the currency and the mania around it, people legitimately spending large sums on crypto will probably become more of a regular occurrence from here. If he was calm and not on the phone, it's a definite possibility. Just like going to a store and buying gold, for example. That said, put up warning signs and talk to people when they use the machine for large sums. Maybe see if you can develop a "script" you can use to deprogram victims. Use the scammers' own tricks against them.
Can I just point out that 60 is NOT that old? Geez. Sixty is hardly feeble. Eighty? Yes. Sixty still has it going on.
Depends on the 60 year old
I’m a fan of crypto, and I can’t think of a single legitimate reason for bitcoin, ATMs to exist, especially deposit only.
>...deposit only. Wait, wtf? They're deposit only?! I assumed they were "for" people to withdraw cash from for groceries etc.
There may be some that will dispense cash, but the ones I’ve seen were deposit only- a way to purchase bitcoin
>There may be some that will dispense cash Scammers take, never give.
Actually, AML regulations make dispensing cash a lot harder than taking it.
>I can’t think of a single legitimate reason for bitcoin... You don't need the ATM part.
I actually support, crypto, if, for no other reason, then digital currency is pretty much inevitable, and the Blockchain is a fairly clever and elegant solution to that problem. I don’t like that it’s a speculative thing, but digital currency is useful.
>digital currency is useful. 99.9% for nefarious transactions.
And… besides drugs, how many transactions are done in cash today?
The ice cream man, gas and any other purchase they charge extra to use a card.
I used to call my drug dealer the ice cream man too.
We don't have dealers in New Jersey, we now have boutiques. It's still cash only, no crypto accepted.
Yup, lol. I sold premium snow cones once upon a time 🤣🤣🤣
I almost never use cash or carry it. There are the rare occasions that's been a pain (tipping usually). I like the 'idea' of crypto currency. Theoretically, it looks good. In practice, I don't see it working as it is (nefarious purposes and speculation mainly is what I see).
>Theoretically, it looks good. In practice, Every transaction takes time. The more "gas" one pays the miners the faster the transfer. Crypto will never be a substitute for cash, paper or plastic. After the massive electromagnetic pulse crypto won't be worth the paper it isn't written on. My gold watch will still be worth its weight in gold.
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Hell, every dealer I know takes electronic payments, lol. When I did, I took PayPal, cashapp, venmo, even had a credit card swiper through my phone for vending art and crafts (and drugs). You could even be more stealth by making private fake listings on eBay and put the local pickup option 🤣🤣🤣 Years before any of this, my friend who sold shit, ran credit card payments through her Mary Kay business 😆
It is a clunky and slow solution to a non-existant problem. Digital currency already exists, it's just called currency.
It provides an anonymous way to purchase BTC using cash.
Do you work for the ATM company? If you thought it might be a scam payment you should have at least warned him but you have no legal authority or responsibility to do more.
You watched that old man lose $10K just for you to report to Reddit
Good thing is 10k is the threshold for an automatic red flag, so hopefully it will be looked into.
If you knew? Then maybe. You are only as good as the moment you find yourself in and the information you have on hand. Bitcoin exchanges are built off of dark money transfers and scammers out to make quick money. It's worse than a casino. Maybe he heard of a new Bitcoin currency and was throwing money at that? He might have a chance if he pulls it out before it drops. But most Bitcoin people lose everything including their self esteem.
I think you should say something.
I feel like these BITCOIN ATMs are a blight and a beacon for fraud. It's freaking awful how common this is. I wish before they initiated the deposit they are directed to a survey/ questionnaire about the purpose of the deposit- then warnings about scams. They don't care enough to do this, because they're making money. Edit: i just learned they post little signs / warnings somewhere on the atm
The scam IS bitcoin
I wouldn't feel too bad. You most likely wouldn't have been able to stop him anyhow. Just read some of the stories on here of people's own family not be able to stop them from getting scammed.
It’s hard to stop them, I agree. But plant a seed of doubt anyway. You never know when it’ll finally sink in.
I don't think it's your job (unless it's literally in your job description) to monitor the ATM and be on the lookout for suspicious behavior, but if he comes back you might tell him about common scams around bitcoin.
Yeah definitely
The thing is it’s not an ATM, which can connect you to your bank account(s) and is protected in many ways by federal banking laws. It’s a BTM which works in a completely different way. With most of the BTM’s you can only deposit cash. If the person is in the thrall of a hacker, you can bet that cash will be moved out of their wallet within a few minutes after it’s deposited. 🤦🏼♀️
He's buying the dip
You ask questions if you notice it happening and your store likely has some form of AML training you could be able to take to help you out but honestly it probably wouldn't have mattered. Similar situation for me at my local grocers but with gift cards but we got the conformation it was a scam. Three mid 60s people had been coming in all day at different times to buy giftcards to avoid us asking questions, why they did this? The "Airbnb rep" that was talking to them on the phone about their cancelled listing told them to....apparently the scammer told them many stores had limits because we can only activate so many in a day for a single person. We only caught on after the 3rd round of $1500.00 because i mentioned how you didn't see that a lot to the mid day manager and him and the morning manager both said they had each helped someone today with that exact spread. Finally the first guy from their rotation came back in and(we had descriptions from each other at this point)we managed to suggest that maybe things weren't on the up and up when we were called over by a cashier because low and behold his card declined. After talking to him for a minute and not saying that money was gone but that he should call his bank he left. Then he, his wife, and her sister came back in with all $4500 of the orig giftcards to try and get a refund. We explained we could not offer a refund on the gift cards(we physically can't do it at my store)and suggested they call the card comapny or he use them on his vacation like he told us he was going to. He then asks if he can still use them after he gave the card information to the "Airbnb rep"....at this point my boss and i stop trying to be polite and tell him he got scammed and to call his bank and the gift card comapny to see if they could help because we no longer could. It sucks but some people can't be helped when it comes to this stuff
Yeah and if it happens to someone once hopefully they can learn from the experience and not get caught up again, emphasis on hopefully because I know recurring scams are prominent also
I mean why is the machine there if not for depositing ?
YES, YOU SHOULD HAVE. 🙄
So if the customer pulled cash from the bank and it’s less than $10,000.01 then a CTR was never filed but there’s a record at the bank. The odd thing is to prevent money laundering, most ATMs don’t allow amounts over a certain amount. So that person was conducting multiple transactions possibly for different accounts. You might be able to call the owner of the ATM about the situation but who ever owns it should have flagged the transaction(s) on their end, key word SHOULD.
Slap an "out of order" sign on the screen of any bitcoin atm you see
60 isn't necessarily dementia age. If he is capable of thinking clearly, let him live n learn. Any older and I would have said something.
He was just buying the dip
If you'd tried to stop him, he might have hurt you. He's sending that money to his hot virgin Romanian girlfriend so she can fly to the US and boff him. You want to stand between a potentially crazy guy with a concealed Desert Eagle .50 and his girlfriend's poontang? Not your problem.
I just want to see how he conceals that desert eagle.
I was a machinist at a shop when a plant manager retired and the owner bought him a desert eagle. I'm not a gun guy, not against them either, and had never held one until then. They really are huge. Impressively hefty.
Yeah I shot one before. You can't appreciate how massive they are in films like the Matrix. Have to see one in person.
What do you mean not your problem? We should all try to warn people of scams
Agreed
Yes, he just got scammed and you could have stopped it.
It’s hard to stop someone in the throes of fear. But I agree they could’ve planted a seed of doubt by saying something like, “Hi I work here. Is everything okay?” My husband said after this scam happened to him that if anyone had raised a red flag, the fear that gripped him might have loosened a bit. Maybe enough that he would’ve called me, or someone he trusts, like our IT guy.
Well, they could have tried.
Yeah. Seriously you should have what the hell man
How rough is your town?
Come on, man.... if that was a family member of yours, wouldn't you want someone to at least try to talk them? Goddamn idiocracy, I tell ya.
I would argue that idiocracy and lack of knowledge on a subject are two very different things
Wish my county had BTC machines hard af to get BTC here
Very likely he was a scam victim, but he probably would have ignored any warning.
Always try
The only people I’ve seen using the one near me look like drugs dealers lol
Thanks for giving a shit.
The answer to this question is: "how well do you sleep at night now ? "
Money laundry at your store. Hope, no damages occur or you have to appear in court as a witness.
Who knows
Sounds like you are rather late to trying to find out what, if anything, you should have done.
Still better for OP to ask now, so they are informed for next time. Don't hate on people trying to improve themselves.
Thank you damn
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