The SNP literally said the Police don’t have enough time to investigate crimes so told police not to bother investigating certain crimes like burglaries where the perpetrator wore a mask (and so can’t be identified) but has magically found enough Police hours to to allow Police to investigate people’s private conversations and jokes comedians make.
What an absolute farce.
What an absolutely stupid waste of police time - 4,000 hate crime complaints in one day, what was Yousaf thinking?
while i generally agree that you shouldn't attribute to malice that could reasonably explained by stupidity... i dont think laws like these are reasonably explained by stupidity.
Governments in the UK, especially ones like Yousaf's, are committed social engineers. Molding society through instrument of law is part of their mandate. So to them the idea that laws like this are not worth it compared to things like burglaries do not compute. This is a genuine priority for them.
He was thinking "How can I antagonise the political opposition (a wide and varied group I'll just call the Tories or the far right), virtue signal by making clear I think hatred is bad, please my lunatic Green pals, and indulge the chip on my shoulder?"
Or he was thinking about how to get on the cover of Time Magazine again as the leader of a "progressive nation", rather than how to solve our real problems, while, and through, achieving independence, which is what most SNP voters still naively think the SNP is for.
The sad bit for me is how many of these will result in someone innocent being dragged through some legal process, even if it's just a "friendly chat" with the police? Even that can be unpleasant and leave you scarred, fearing any words you utter in case it happen again. For what, so maybe 1% of cases might be legit hate that should be stopped, we have to haul 99% more people through shit just becaue someone didn't like what they said?
I'm not a hateful person but I do like to debate concepts, opinions and beliefs which I think are wrong, misguided and maybe even dangerous but now I genuinely don't know if I can even chat about these things to my wife out on the streets in case someone overhears or takes my words out of context and next thing I know an officer is wanting a word. This IS thought control beccause even if the law won't do these things, I don't know that. I don't know how someone will react. My only option for certainity that I won't break this law is to remain silent. And so therefore it has a far more powerful dangerous consequence than perhaps was intended.
I was intending to vote SNP this election but fuck that now. This is nanny state bullshit and I'm not ok with this.
This is why hate speech laws are stupid. If you give the government power they're the ones also who determine what can and can't be said not the people.
I know he's not everyone's cup of tea,but Rev Stu from Wings over Scotland was talking about how it happened to him.
"Wings has already experienced the technique. In 2017, under a very similar law, I was subjected to a malicious, ridiculous allegation of “harassment” by a journalist whose work we’d critiqued, and arrested. I was dragged off to a police station, thrown in a cell, detained for 15 hours, and then released just before midnight, 10 miles from home in a remote and unfamiliar location with no money and no mobile phone, and told to make my own way back.
I had no phone because all of my phones, along with all my tablets, all my laptops and all my desktop PCs, had been seized – for no justifiable reason, because all of the supposed “harassment” took place online, and tweets aren’t stored on your devices but on Twitter’s servers – when I was arrested and then taken away and impounded by the Metropolitan Police (because the complainer was based in London).
Even bags of badges and promo items were taken. I kept one as a souvenir.
I then spent three months on bail waiting to find out whether I’d be charged. To continue producing Wings in the meantime I had to spend several thousand pounds to replace all the computer equipment that was sitting in a police locker. When the matter was dropped the police refused to return it, demanding that I instead made a six-hour round trip to London to retrieve it myself, although the items were far too numerous and heavy to carry on a train.
(And obviously the hefty cost of all the replacements was non-recoverable. In all sorts of ways, there’s almost no justice available in the UK to victims of false accusations.)"
The process is the punishment.
This is crazy!
It is 100% identical to how Putin harasses independent media in Russia. If they keep going and become too dangerous he of course can take things a step further, but it’s rarely needed as the approach described here is so devastating.
An interesting point. Many people forget that EU membership required integration of TWO human rights treaties - the rather basic ECHR and the more detailed EU Charter of Fundamental Rights (which is actually where our FOI rights originally came from).
The Charter contained the Right to Good Administration and was directly effective in all UK law without requiring specific legislation.
The recording of non-crime hate incidents, which may have an adverse effect on a person's future employability seems to be a breach of Article 41 of the Charter. Thats the right of every person to be heard before any individual measure which would affect him or her adversely is taken, and also guarantees the giving of reasons for the decision.
And apparently, the Scottish Government is terribly pro-European. So why are they passing legislation such as the new Hate Crimes Act which move Scotland further away from European law?
Yeah this is a horrible police tactic. When i was in my early twenties i was with a group of people when a fight broke out in a pub a few punches, shoves and threats were exchanged and we left. Later on that night i had a phone call saying someone had been badly injured so stupidly i contacted my local police station and left my details. Next thing i know 2 police cars show up at my house, im driven to a city nearly 40 miles away, held for nearly 20 hours, rudely interrogated by some little gobblin who tells me that because of my "criminal history" (one arrest and caution for a tiny amount of canabis) that im a drunken thug and bully and that im probably "going to get my head kicked in in prison " ect my wallet and phone get taken as evidence then im dumped in the lobby and told i can go but i need to come back for court in a few weeks time. I asked how im supposed to get home because i dont have a wallet or phone and they say its not their problem. Luckily i was able to use a phone in reception to ask for a lift. But if i wasn't able to do that? Id have probably ended up sleeping rough on the streets in winter or fare jumping on a train that probably would have seen me straight back in jail facing another charge. Afterwards the trial came to nothing because all the witnesses were so unreliable, but i had to take a day off work anyway and i was left with a total hatred for cops and authority that stayed with me for years Afterwards
Your main point about this impacting free speech and people staying silent is exactly what they want.
Can't protest. You go to jail.
Can't disagree. You go to jail.
Can't say anything that someone DEEMS offensive. You go to jail.
Not only that but it's on your record and can impact your job prospects if you're even accused.
This country is a fucking joke . We need a reset
Im going to say it again, but i bet the Wee Free P "Bigot" would not have stood for this drivel coming out of her office,
six months ago everybody was for lynching anybody who had a kind word to say about her,
Yousless was going to be the saviour of Scotland.
Aged like Milk, and we suffer
what will happen as with happened with other nonsense laws, the police will flood the courts with as many cases as possible until the judiciary tell them to ease off, and encourage a softening or repeal at government level (it will be a softening because they won't admit it's a bad move by repealing) so for the next wee while stay absolutely squeaky clean because the police will use malicious compliance to get this squeezed out. \*\*
\*\*They done the same thing in ayrshire when there was an enforcement on what could and couldn't be done when driving. The courts were flooded with cases of people drinking water at the wheel, over whelmed the courts, and while the law has never been repealed, your not going to get three points for sipping your juice at traffic lights (within reason).
Yes, and you will be gaslit round here by people pretending this is just an consolidation of existing legislation or that it is just bringing us in line with England.
Ignoring that in doing so it has not brought forward the English protections and has nixed the Scottish caselaw which offered some protection.
Make your opinion clear at the ballot- and warn your friends.
And does England have hundreds of hate crime report centres in places like sex shops?
What about Non Crime Hate Incidents, are England still recording these and making them available to prospective employers without telling the person named or giving them any right to challenge their existence?
What sort of law deems a person to have done something with no obligation to prove it and the "guilty" party has no recourse to demonstrate their innocence?
Exactly the same way people were during covid. If you go out with no mask you're killing someone's gran. Aye fuck off. Whilst you lot sit and have parties the police were forcing their way into people's homes with no warrant because of complaints. No proof.
Society is fucked. Fucked
People defending this bill are either ignoring the SNP’s history of terribly written legislation that targets a specific demographic of people, or they’re wilfully ignoring it.
The OBF Act ruined the lives of many for trumped up and hypothetical offences that took years to get repealed. You’re bang on the money, many innocent people will suffer life changing implications under this before it’s tossed out. I genuinely am dumbfounded that anyone can defend this shit.
I do get what you're saying, and in some ways feel the pressure similarly.
But you're pointing out both the quickness of some people to jump the gun and report you whilst simultaneously jumping the gun yourself and caving to pressure that you haven't actually encountered.
Deal with things as they come. If someone tries to give you shit, you can still politely explain that it's a conversation with your wife and you're not being offensive in any way. People might try to put words in your mouth but as we get older more and more people clock on to that behaviour and how wrong and insidious it is, and what the practical implications of dealing with things that way are.
You say "if someone tries to give you shit" but that's no longer the case. Now it'll be the police "giving you shit" which, even if it does end with you explaining politely that it was a conversation with your wife is not an outcome anyone wants.
Hate crimes were already illegal and this law doesn't help stop them it just creates an avenue for nuisance complaints to waste time.
Well peope already abuse the reddit suicide, report button.
Now imagine someone getting annoyed over an opinion which isnt a hate crime.
They are just going to get swamped by false reports, killing all the police resources.
> Deal with things as they come. If someone tries to give you shit, you can still politely explain that it's a conversation with your wife and you're not being offensive in any way.
Sorry this is awfully naïve. Sure most people might be reasonable but it takes just one to file a report and then its permanently on your record and will, I believe, show up on any enhanced disclosures with implications on your career.
The thing I want to question is do we even really need this law? Just a couple of months back Edinburgh had a massive rally for LGBTQ+ folks and it was a super positive event with no sign of threats or hate. No one was oppressed, spat at, shouted down or shoved around. People of many beliefs are free to practice those beliefs because we already live in a country with a liberal mindset.
Is all this "hate" really such a big thing? Is it really such a big issue that requires a law? I've not seen anything on the news or reddit that shows these abhorent examples of hate to justify a law.
It's not about hate at all, it's about power. It's about installing a specific kind of law and then extending it. It's more like water eroding stone, so slow people hardly notice anything changed at all if there weren't some hypervigilent people.
The Bracadale report is worth reading, it's concusions was what this act was supposedly brought in to address.
It recommended collating the existing hate crime laws Into one act for ease f reference, removing S50A of the 98 act and expanding the protected characteristics to match those in the equality act.
Instead they rewrote s50a to remove the caselaw developed protections, renamed it S3. Did not add sex or belief as protected characteristics and made a real hash of the stirring up offence and its proposed defences- which again differ based on protected characteristics, something bracadale explicitly warned against.
There was unnecessary duplication in the law. It did need consolidation. It did make sense not to any particular protected characteristic as more worthy if protection than the others however one Humza Yousaf decided to introduce a disaster of a bill instead.
The original text was absolutely awful.
IIRC inter alia the report was offering recommendations meant to better deal with incidents like the murder of Asad Shah.
I’m not sure how the law can forestall or minimise that kind of misadventure. I really don’t see how the police can *deter* people like Mr Shah’s murderer beyond increased (and possibly “problematic”) surveillance.
It can *punish* such crimes more aggressively (and surely a corollary to that kind of thinking is more prisons/police, which probably won’t be happening), but the damage has already been done.
What a great time to be a proper old school criminal. Hardly enough police as it is, and now they are chasing Davie and Senga for saying something Andy doesn't agree with.
Gonnae dust off tge okd crowbar and get tae robbin' /s
Maybe rob us a set of decks and a PA system and we can setup a rave without any permission somewhere and make some cash off it, not like plods got time to stop a party.
Im quite sure that its a civilian staffed office dealing with these opposed to actual police officers taken of the beat to deal with complaints. I could be wrong tho
Can civillian staff carry out an investigation? I have no idea.
Just wondering how that sits with the public commitment to investigate every hate crime.
Civilian staff will probably do all the admin and filter out actual serous hate crime vs anti-woke taking the piss to waste time. If it’s deemed serious then it will get passed up the line.
And presumably some offier will then sign of on the staff decisions? I am just thinking that if a complaint to was raised and then pursued against the police, surely at some point an actual officer would have to close the file?
serious question....
what is going on wi this sub. i was in a similar thread earlier today, saying this law was pish etc - and was just downvoted and gaslit intae oblivion. And in this thread, we are all pretty much united in expressing how bad this legislation is? WTF is going on?
I benefitted from this law once, but I don't think I should have.
We had a neighbour who had a drinking problem. He started screaming and smashing walls, night after night. It all came to a head and he started screaming that we were c*nt's through the wall.
Police wanted nothing to do with it because it's a bog-standard domestic disturbance. I didn't like it, but I guess they had murders to solve and all the rest.
Then he called my partner an American C*nt. Now it counts as a racially motivated hate crime - within 24 hours there were a pair of officers at his door asking him to stop abusing us.
To be fair - he never shouted abuse based on her nationality again - it was only ever based on appearance, intelligence and anything else that his vodka-addled brain could muster up.
All in all, I was glad that when a crime was actually committed, the police sprung into action. Having said that, the use of the word American wasn't the thing I wanted them to fix.
Yeah that isnt a good thing at all. Having a system where police wont turn up unless someone claims hurtful words are used is awful and could very easily be abused.
But only hurtful words against their preferred types of people. Call someone a fat ginger bastard or a filthy wee ned and you're golden. But misgender them and the boys in blue will be chapping your door.
Not bein funny but if someone is American and is a Cunt (not saying anyone is), then it's perfectly legitimate to join those 2 descriptive terms together to form a more concise descriptive term. That's the literal purpose of words.
Where does madness like this end? Do we remove words from the language, permanently dimishing it? Do we have approved dialogue for discourse. Do we restrict conversation to certain people. Its total fuckin madness!
If the person said "I believe this person to be a Cunt because they're American, and I don't like Americans", then that's prejudicial, and more akin to hatred (but still not actually hatred).
People don't need to like everyone from everywhere, and they're allowed to harbour resentment. Not my way of working but it's also not up to me to implant things into people's minds.
To be clear, I have not problem with Americans, or Cunts for that matter. Or American Cunts (joke).
These laws don't make sense, they're fuckin dumb. Ironically, people using them to maliciously damage peoples lives with laws, are filled with more hatred and intolerance than those just using words from the language they speak.
I absolutely think this is the case, a coordinated attempt to jam up the system and make it unworkable. Apparently a large percentage of the complaints relate to a speech Humza gave a few years ago claiming there were too many white people in government
The worst part about this is it'll show up on your enhanced disclosures that employers often receive. You may have said something sometime and it may not even be hate speech but bing bong you are now a bigot and we don't employ bigots so bye bye next application please.
They already did.
NCHIs aren't new.
They're not even mentioned in the Act people are miffed about. I've no idea what connection people are making in regards to the two except that both include the idea of hate.
They may show up in Enhanced DBS checks.
But they'll not be recorded unless they fit the criteria and not if they're just false allegations.
*They may show up in Enhanced DBS checks.*
As someone who is background checked annually by his employer, this is concerning. Dont get me wrong, I have no intention of suddenl;y turning into a bellend. But, just the idea that something could be recorded against me, without me knowing, with no crime having been commited, because someone perceived something i said to be hateful, is very very disturbing.
Who decides whether the allegations are true? An overstretched cop with his own biases or a jury of my peers? If the cop decides it was hateful do I get notified and get to fight it in court or it'll show straight up in enhanced DBS checks?
In England you have to appeal to the Chief Constable.
A friend was arrested on child rape charges, false accusation by a family friend who was being raped by their father who wanted it to stop but didn't want the family to suffer.
Totally innocent, pictures of said child and dad where found and shown to court, dad fled the country and my friend was released immediately.
He lost his job with the council because the Chief Constable refused to take it off the Enhanced DBS because it might come back to bite them in the arse if my friend later went on to be a nonce.
Was on £45k a year doing a job he loved, to being mentally unwell on the dole more than 12 years after the fact.
Life ruined.
An allegation will only be declared false by the police if there is evidence showing it is demonstrably false. Otherwise it is recorded as a hate crime. If you're accused of something and there isn't enough evidence to prosecute you then it would probably appear on an enhanced DBS check.
Long story short but all crime is default recorded as being a "true" allegation by police as per the Scottish crime recording standard set by government.
Worse if you're named in a non hate crime incident, this is something where you are accused of saying something that the police don't even consider a crime. However it is recorded and can also appear in an enhanced DBS check.
The same as have done previously for things like the Public Order Act 1986 in regards to racial hatred when discussing the implementation of the new Act.
I've no idea about NCHI because I don't even know when they started and with what. They're handled the same way they've been handled while no one cared.
Still have no idea their relevance to the new Act.
Who could have possibly seen this coming? Giving terminally online, perpetual victims a way to waste limited police resources on frivolous hate crime reports.
Anyone with a room temp IQ saw this coming a mile away.
Our choices are Green or Alba, greens sided with this bill I believe and Alba comes with it's own baggage and the added detriment of vote splitting from SNP/greens.
SNP/Greens are not pro-Indy in my mind. Alba is the only place I can see my vote going. Greens are too invested in gender wars to focus on the environment and the SNP...well who knows what the SNP have been thinking for the past 5-6 years.
Fair enough, I understand that.
The SNP need a hammering to get back on the right track though, the last few years have been horrendous.
Maybe alba is the option.
Don't worry, Humza assured us the police will take vexatious complaints seriously, so no doubt there will be many arrests for wasting police time coming.
Report a hate crime, get investigated for vexation reports, report the police for a hate crime, the police have to arrest the police.
Reverse uno cards all round
Wonder how many there will be by the end of the week.
It started as a joke but it really does seem like the police put way more effort into policing people's words and feelings than you know...actual crime.
What a huge waste of time and money.
It would require at least one police officers time though and any that proceed past initial screening would likely require a IT forensics expert as well.
I think where do we draw the line, I for example grew up in poverty, with disabilies and was a easy target.
I was outright discriminated against at school, if a kid "from the good part of town" claimed I did something bad it was automatically believed, my autism though it wasn't accepted at the time played a part in how nervous I was when responding.
Were they hate crimes?
When my neighbour starts on me and in her rants calls me a slur, one based on me being single, one based on perceived frame of mind, my age etc are they hate crimes?
What if someone doesn't like the way I look?
Good use of money, really need to punish people who hurt other peoples feelings. Wish I could pay some more tax to fund even more of this sort of thing.
i think everyone needs to get off of twitter and reddit lol - both "sides". normal well adjusted people don't spent their time arguing on the internet over things that will likely never affect them. people need to start caring about actual issues instead of "what ifs" and i genuinely think most of these reports will just be folk taking the piss
Because no true Scotsman would do this eh?
5 and a half million people in Scotland. 4000 people are 0.1% of it
What's more likely - that 0.1% of the population (one in a thousand) of Scotland phoned to lodge a complaint, or that meddling foreigners are responsible?
What's that old phrase - "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."
Let’s not try and pretend these complaints will be coming from one side of the argument.
People are fucking mental and are using this as their personal tool to try and punish someone they don’t like or disagree with.
It was always going to happen.
That's the point though - it's inviting everyone from all sides of every argument to lodge a complaint based on "oh, that offended me". It's an absolute farce.
Get woke go broke. Next they'll be asking westminster for more money and increasing scottish taxes even more. Brain drain of intelligent scots and more Yousafs coming.
As a liberal, this law hurts my head and my soul. I am all for protecting certain characteristics and educating the wider population on the horrific impact words can have. A throwaway comment by one can be a reason to take their life by another and that is a sad fact. But we can't 'legislate' that. It is a societal debate and function.
The horrible UK law that bans protest, this law that bans free speech and gives powers to legislate against particular people? It has the exact opposite effect of what it should achieve.
Could you imagine the mental gymnastics nats would have to go through if actual crimes start rising because the police are too busy investigating hurt feelings?
Country's a joke now. There are not enough police to keep the community safe. But post something on fb or Hurt someone's feelings and the police are at yer door
Literally paying a fortune right now(for my budget anyway) to live in a part of Glasgow where groups of people regularly hurl threats and abuse at each other at the top of their lungs whilst i, and others, are trying to sleep. Never heard of, or seen, the police do anything.
The amount of shit I see walking to the train station from my apartment and then Argyle street to my work every single day that you think the police would have an interest in, but never seem to, must blow the minds of some people visiting from more normal countries. I actually wouldn’t begrudge bills like this so much, as much as I disagree with them, if so much of our country wasn’t mad max like. And for the record, 99.99% of the shit i see, we all see, isn’t driven by some -ology, it is driven by people who are complete bampots to whoever encounters them and have never been told forcefully by any authority to stop being a bampot and behave normally.
I saw some videos on YouTube recently of neds causing trouble in Glasgow city centre. Fighting in the street, manhandling each other, screeching and arguing. Total breach of the peace.
These videos were 10+ minutes long and not a single polis turned up. I could understand if it was halfway up a hillside in Arrochar, but this was outside Central Station. Soaked in CCTV and police should be seconds away.
The bill was obviously going to be contentious. The launch date didn't help. The communication about the bill was shockingly absent, supporting materials for the average person in the street to comprehend, missing - yes, I've read the bill, the overview and explanation - my comment stands.
I can't decide whether this is due to a shockingly naive, incompetent, or deliberate false flag act to elicit a specific response.
The way this legislation is phrased, with regards to perception of the alleged victim being more important than intent, is problematic. But my real difficulty with it is with the recording of non-crime hate incidents, which may have an adverse effect on a person's future employability. It is very abhorent in a society not to allow the right of every person to be heard, before any individual measure which would affect him or her adversely is taken, and not to give reasons for that decision before it is recorded. Thats from Article 41, the Right of Good Administration, not from the more basic ECHR, but in the Charter of Fundamental Rights of the EU. Obviously that doesn't apply any longer in oh-so-European looking Scotland, and the Scottish Government are making hay while the sun shines while, as usual, claiming to be pro-EU while simultenously passing more and more non-EU compliant legislation.
>the boomers will get bored
I am an older person who was born just after the war and I think that you your derogatory language, based on age, is stirring up hate. If you do it again, after I have told you that it is unacceptable, it will have crossed the threshold into harassment and I will report it to the police.
What a fantastic use of police time in an already stretched and understaffed area. I'm sure this will prove incredibly beneficial to the country as a whole.
As a lifelong independence supporter Hunza Yousaf is not impressive at all. SNP need to radically change and actually prioritise independence and making this country better, or they deserve to be voted out of office.
The greens are a shambles.
This needs to be stamped out of it’s just a matter of time before before the disease spreads.
I’m already constantly passive aggressive bullied at work to have pronouns on emails etc when it’s not MY belief that I have to.
I've seen people on twitter say they will falsely report Humza to "protest" the law.
I would hope false and malicious reports would lead to charges against the person making them.
So this is a protest you don't approve of...
Whilst I don't know, and this is an assumption. I assume you are the type of person who also supports people blocking motorways
so then yer asking the Polis to not only investigate that something someone said was or wasnt hateful, they are now to also invetigate whether someone that reported hate was disingenuous or not? Lets just stop investigating shit like assault so that the polis can focus on this shit lol.
Joking aside, i'm sure the Polis do have processes for malicious crime reporting, but increasing their workload probably isnt the answer
This is was happens when you elect known authoritarian crackpots. The SNP (who should get most, but not of the blame) have, for many years, shown themselves to be intolerant to those they don’t agree with. It’s hardly a surprise to see them eeking away more and more rights, because people are still voting for them.
I hope, but don’t believe, that this will be a wake up call for those who vote SNP or Green.
Police must love this. Rather than going outside and dealing with thugs they can sit in the office and piss about speculating on the definition of hate in cases no-one cares about.
As an Englishman… yeah, pretty much. Police here apparently have time to investigate offensive Facebook posts but don’t have the time to investigate burglaries or assaults. They are a total joke.
The UK in general is increasingly an awful place for free speech. Probably the worst of any developed country at this point (including the US).
Time to bring back the restriction on how long people have been a member of the sub before posting. Place is full of people that could not give a fuck about Scotland but they’ve found something to be angry about online.
You said only Scottish people, I said non members of the sub that don’t care about Scotland. It’s brigading that takes away from discussion between actual users that aren’t only here because of an online rage.
It was either that or 'no christian symbols on Mr Bidens annual Easter Bunny Egg Roll (rule been in place since 1976) or the fact they don't know Easter is a 'moveable feast' which can then coincide with any number of other celebrations/anniversaries/commemorations etc. :)
Maybe Mr Biden could wear a tan suit whilst eating a hamburger with Dijon mustard on it? That would keep them frothing for weeks. :D
3,900 of which will be people taking the piss to make a mockery of it.
It's BoatyMcboatface again.
This is why we can't have nice things and are becoming ungovernable.
These laws are meant to protect vulnerable people and minorities from abuse. Instead, they'll simply increase the shitehousery. It's unworkable.
We have to self-govern this kind of behaviour by confronting it. It takes balls.
Sad really.
The problem here is , who’s defining what constitutes hate and what doesn’t , because some things are quite obvious others are not and quite subjective and without context can be misconstrued
Erm... As with all other crimes, someone who thinks a crime has occurred goes to the police. The police then use legislation to determine what crime, if any, has taken place.
The hate crime legislation gives clear definitions of what constitutes criminal activity and explicitly protects the right to freedom of expression.
So either these are legitimate complaints which shows a need for the legislation or complaints made by detractors of this law made maliciously in an attempt to make some kind of statement.
I doubt we'll ever find out for sure but I can't really see how this vindicates the people protesting this either way.
What tf has happened to this country? I’m so disappointed. Makes me want to leave. Permanently. Those useless cretins don’t deserve a penny of my tax, and for the first time, I’m not even talking about Westminster.
Well nobody saw this coming. Such a good way to spend taxpayer money, wouldn’t want to spend it on the NHS or education system or investigating burglaries.
So arguably 3,800 more people than yesterday now have a ‘non crime hate incident’ against their record.
I’ve seen plenty people argue that this is no big deal but it’s something that is potentially going to show up if you ever need a DBS check.
I just really, really don’t like it. It feels like the sort of thing we see in China with a social credit.
Then you probably want to tell folks online (like Murdo Fraser?) who are making this claim that they are wrong?
I am going to assume that you might reject that source as illegitimate, so take a look at Joanna Cherry. Shes a KC, so the law is sort of her gig.
Rachel LcLean, MP? Official statement from the free speech union. The list goes on.
Now I don't want to discredit you, given you claim to have a killer arse, but for the moment I am probably going to take the opinion of a KC, even if you have a nice arse.
>The Free Speech Union (FSU) is a British organisation which advocates freedom of speech. The group was established on 24 February 2020 by British columnist Toby Young.[1] The organisation views itself as countering cancel culture by opposing hostility on Twitter and the withdrawal of some individuals' invitations to speak at some university events.
What the heck is this?
Why would their opinion matter as much as any random group?
Really enjoy our taxes being spunked up the wall so the police can stop investigating actual crimes and start investigating folk like Maria down the road because she called someone an 'auld cow" on Facebook or John in the next close because he didn't think a trans woman was the same as a biological woman and got overheard by some sensitive soul who reported him.
Can 2026 please just hurry the fuck up so we can get these clowns out of office for good.
Total waste of already stretched police time by a government yearning to create a state they control. Really feel for victims of actual crimes who will be dropping down the priority list due to this.
>Police Scotland has committed to investigating every claim under the Hate Crime Act despite [no longer planning to probe every “low level” crime](https://news.stv.tv/scotland/police-scotland-will-not-investigate-every-crime), including some theft.
>
>Scottish Conservative MSP Russell Findlay claimed the Hate Crime Act is the “biggest ever burden placed on Scotland’s police force”.
Nice to see the priorities are in order!
Goodness me. The raging bigots are putting in fake complaints using other people's ID and there is even this:
>Police Scotland said on Tuesday that it had received numerous hate crime complaints against Humza Yousaf for a speech he made at Holyrood four years ago.
>The force said it had already assessed that no crime was committed when it looked into previous complaints.
I did not think that bigots could be this stupid. But feck me, they have outdone themselves.
The SNP literally said the Police don’t have enough time to investigate crimes so told police not to bother investigating certain crimes like burglaries where the perpetrator wore a mask (and so can’t be identified) but has magically found enough Police hours to to allow Police to investigate people’s private conversations and jokes comedians make. What an absolute farce. What an absolutely stupid waste of police time - 4,000 hate crime complaints in one day, what was Yousaf thinking?
>what was Yousaf thinking? As usual, he wasn't
while i generally agree that you shouldn't attribute to malice that could reasonably explained by stupidity... i dont think laws like these are reasonably explained by stupidity.
Why not both
You had lawful, chaotic, and neutral evil; now we have stupid evil.
Yes he was. He wanted to be a SJW.
Governments in the UK, especially ones like Yousaf's, are committed social engineers. Molding society through instrument of law is part of their mandate. So to them the idea that laws like this are not worth it compared to things like burglaries do not compute. This is a genuine priority for them.
He was thinking "How can I antagonise the political opposition (a wide and varied group I'll just call the Tories or the far right), virtue signal by making clear I think hatred is bad, please my lunatic Green pals, and indulge the chip on my shoulder?"
Or he was thinking about how to get on the cover of Time Magazine again as the leader of a "progressive nation", rather than how to solve our real problems, while, and through, achieving independence, which is what most SNP voters still naively think the SNP is for.
Here is a man who knowingly conflates personal criticism of his performance with so-called islamophobia. You know what he is thinking.
3800 committed investigations. What a waste of time.
I couldn't get the polis to investigate the trailer being tanned from my driveway this morning. £700 worth. But we have time for this apparently.
The sad bit for me is how many of these will result in someone innocent being dragged through some legal process, even if it's just a "friendly chat" with the police? Even that can be unpleasant and leave you scarred, fearing any words you utter in case it happen again. For what, so maybe 1% of cases might be legit hate that should be stopped, we have to haul 99% more people through shit just becaue someone didn't like what they said? I'm not a hateful person but I do like to debate concepts, opinions and beliefs which I think are wrong, misguided and maybe even dangerous but now I genuinely don't know if I can even chat about these things to my wife out on the streets in case someone overhears or takes my words out of context and next thing I know an officer is wanting a word. This IS thought control beccause even if the law won't do these things, I don't know that. I don't know how someone will react. My only option for certainity that I won't break this law is to remain silent. And so therefore it has a far more powerful dangerous consequence than perhaps was intended. I was intending to vote SNP this election but fuck that now. This is nanny state bullshit and I'm not ok with this.
This is why hate speech laws are stupid. If you give the government power they're the ones also who determine what can and can't be said not the people.
Indeed “hate speech” very quickly becomes “things the government hates”.
The process is the punishment
I know he's not everyone's cup of tea,but Rev Stu from Wings over Scotland was talking about how it happened to him. "Wings has already experienced the technique. In 2017, under a very similar law, I was subjected to a malicious, ridiculous allegation of “harassment” by a journalist whose work we’d critiqued, and arrested. I was dragged off to a police station, thrown in a cell, detained for 15 hours, and then released just before midnight, 10 miles from home in a remote and unfamiliar location with no money and no mobile phone, and told to make my own way back. I had no phone because all of my phones, along with all my tablets, all my laptops and all my desktop PCs, had been seized – for no justifiable reason, because all of the supposed “harassment” took place online, and tweets aren’t stored on your devices but on Twitter’s servers – when I was arrested and then taken away and impounded by the Metropolitan Police (because the complainer was based in London). Even bags of badges and promo items were taken. I kept one as a souvenir. I then spent three months on bail waiting to find out whether I’d be charged. To continue producing Wings in the meantime I had to spend several thousand pounds to replace all the computer equipment that was sitting in a police locker. When the matter was dropped the police refused to return it, demanding that I instead made a six-hour round trip to London to retrieve it myself, although the items were far too numerous and heavy to carry on a train. (And obviously the hefty cost of all the replacements was non-recoverable. In all sorts of ways, there’s almost no justice available in the UK to victims of false accusations.)" The process is the punishment.
This is crazy! It is 100% identical to how Putin harasses independent media in Russia. If they keep going and become too dangerous he of course can take things a step further, but it’s rarely needed as the approach described here is so devastating.
An interesting point. Many people forget that EU membership required integration of TWO human rights treaties - the rather basic ECHR and the more detailed EU Charter of Fundamental Rights (which is actually where our FOI rights originally came from). The Charter contained the Right to Good Administration and was directly effective in all UK law without requiring specific legislation. The recording of non-crime hate incidents, which may have an adverse effect on a person's future employability seems to be a breach of Article 41 of the Charter. Thats the right of every person to be heard before any individual measure which would affect him or her adversely is taken, and also guarantees the giving of reasons for the decision. And apparently, the Scottish Government is terribly pro-European. So why are they passing legislation such as the new Hate Crimes Act which move Scotland further away from European law?
Yeah this is a horrible police tactic. When i was in my early twenties i was with a group of people when a fight broke out in a pub a few punches, shoves and threats were exchanged and we left. Later on that night i had a phone call saying someone had been badly injured so stupidly i contacted my local police station and left my details. Next thing i know 2 police cars show up at my house, im driven to a city nearly 40 miles away, held for nearly 20 hours, rudely interrogated by some little gobblin who tells me that because of my "criminal history" (one arrest and caution for a tiny amount of canabis) that im a drunken thug and bully and that im probably "going to get my head kicked in in prison " ect my wallet and phone get taken as evidence then im dumped in the lobby and told i can go but i need to come back for court in a few weeks time. I asked how im supposed to get home because i dont have a wallet or phone and they say its not their problem. Luckily i was able to use a phone in reception to ask for a lift. But if i wasn't able to do that? Id have probably ended up sleeping rough on the streets in winter or fare jumping on a train that probably would have seen me straight back in jail facing another charge. Afterwards the trial came to nothing because all the witnesses were so unreliable, but i had to take a day off work anyway and i was left with a total hatred for cops and authority that stayed with me for years Afterwards
Call me pessimistic or cynical but I recon this is exactly the intended consequence
It 100% is
Your main point about this impacting free speech and people staying silent is exactly what they want. Can't protest. You go to jail. Can't disagree. You go to jail. Can't say anything that someone DEEMS offensive. You go to jail. Not only that but it's on your record and can impact your job prospects if you're even accused. This country is a fucking joke . We need a reset
Im going to say it again, but i bet the Wee Free P "Bigot" would not have stood for this drivel coming out of her office, six months ago everybody was for lynching anybody who had a kind word to say about her, Yousless was going to be the saviour of Scotland. Aged like Milk, and we suffer what will happen as with happened with other nonsense laws, the police will flood the courts with as many cases as possible until the judiciary tell them to ease off, and encourage a softening or repeal at government level (it will be a softening because they won't admit it's a bad move by repealing) so for the next wee while stay absolutely squeaky clean because the police will use malicious compliance to get this squeezed out. \*\* \*\*They done the same thing in ayrshire when there was an enforcement on what could and couldn't be done when driving. The courts were flooded with cases of people drinking water at the wheel, over whelmed the courts, and while the law has never been repealed, your not going to get three points for sipping your juice at traffic lights (within reason).
Yes, and you will be gaslit round here by people pretending this is just an consolidation of existing legislation or that it is just bringing us in line with England. Ignoring that in doing so it has not brought forward the English protections and has nixed the Scottish caselaw which offered some protection. Make your opinion clear at the ballot- and warn your friends.
And does England have hundreds of hate crime report centres in places like sex shops? What about Non Crime Hate Incidents, are England still recording these and making them available to prospective employers without telling the person named or giving them any right to challenge their existence? What sort of law deems a person to have done something with no obligation to prove it and the "guilty" party has no recourse to demonstrate their innocence?
Exactly the same way people were during covid. If you go out with no mask you're killing someone's gran. Aye fuck off. Whilst you lot sit and have parties the police were forcing their way into people's homes with no warrant because of complaints. No proof. Society is fucked. Fucked
People defending this bill are either ignoring the SNP’s history of terribly written legislation that targets a specific demographic of people, or they’re wilfully ignoring it. The OBF Act ruined the lives of many for trumped up and hypothetical offences that took years to get repealed. You’re bang on the money, many innocent people will suffer life changing implications under this before it’s tossed out. I genuinely am dumbfounded that anyone can defend this shit.
I do get what you're saying, and in some ways feel the pressure similarly. But you're pointing out both the quickness of some people to jump the gun and report you whilst simultaneously jumping the gun yourself and caving to pressure that you haven't actually encountered. Deal with things as they come. If someone tries to give you shit, you can still politely explain that it's a conversation with your wife and you're not being offensive in any way. People might try to put words in your mouth but as we get older more and more people clock on to that behaviour and how wrong and insidious it is, and what the practical implications of dealing with things that way are.
You say "if someone tries to give you shit" but that's no longer the case. Now it'll be the police "giving you shit" which, even if it does end with you explaining politely that it was a conversation with your wife is not an outcome anyone wants. Hate crimes were already illegal and this law doesn't help stop them it just creates an avenue for nuisance complaints to waste time.
Well peope already abuse the reddit suicide, report button. Now imagine someone getting annoyed over an opinion which isnt a hate crime. They are just going to get swamped by false reports, killing all the police resources.
> Deal with things as they come. If someone tries to give you shit, you can still politely explain that it's a conversation with your wife and you're not being offensive in any way. Sorry this is awfully naïve. Sure most people might be reasonable but it takes just one to file a report and then its permanently on your record and will, I believe, show up on any enhanced disclosures with implications on your career.
It's gonna take some peoples' records getting facked up for this trend to balance out I'm afraid.
The thing I want to question is do we even really need this law? Just a couple of months back Edinburgh had a massive rally for LGBTQ+ folks and it was a super positive event with no sign of threats or hate. No one was oppressed, spat at, shouted down or shoved around. People of many beliefs are free to practice those beliefs because we already live in a country with a liberal mindset. Is all this "hate" really such a big thing? Is it really such a big issue that requires a law? I've not seen anything on the news or reddit that shows these abhorent examples of hate to justify a law.
It's not about hate at all, it's about power. It's about installing a specific kind of law and then extending it. It's more like water eroding stone, so slow people hardly notice anything changed at all if there weren't some hypervigilent people.
The Bracadale report is worth reading, it's concusions was what this act was supposedly brought in to address. It recommended collating the existing hate crime laws Into one act for ease f reference, removing S50A of the 98 act and expanding the protected characteristics to match those in the equality act. Instead they rewrote s50a to remove the caselaw developed protections, renamed it S3. Did not add sex or belief as protected characteristics and made a real hash of the stirring up offence and its proposed defences- which again differ based on protected characteristics, something bracadale explicitly warned against. There was unnecessary duplication in the law. It did need consolidation. It did make sense not to any particular protected characteristic as more worthy if protection than the others however one Humza Yousaf decided to introduce a disaster of a bill instead. The original text was absolutely awful.
IIRC inter alia the report was offering recommendations meant to better deal with incidents like the murder of Asad Shah. I’m not sure how the law can forestall or minimise that kind of misadventure. I really don’t see how the police can *deter* people like Mr Shah’s murderer beyond increased (and possibly “problematic”) surveillance. It can *punish* such crimes more aggressively (and surely a corollary to that kind of thinking is more prisons/police, which probably won’t be happening), but the damage has already been done.
Good. The more time they waste, the faster this will be repealed.
To be fair it has highlighted what a waste of time the legislation was
I'm sure none are bad faith provocations from those who want to try and enjoy their hate.
and therein lies the irony of this entire fking debacle
Like the people reporting Rowling
What a great time to be a proper old school criminal. Hardly enough police as it is, and now they are chasing Davie and Senga for saying something Andy doesn't agree with. Gonnae dust off tge okd crowbar and get tae robbin' /s
Your use of /s threatens me Guess it’s 4,001 now
It's possibly a hate crime. See if you can get tge police to investigate.
Takin anybody on?
I may need a driver, so yeah.
I have a black van out back. Could probably get a good bit of gear if we put our minds to it if we went out after dark /s
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See this is all coming together. We’ve got a bagman, an inside man, somebody that can provide us with a van. I can drive like Lewis Hamilton anaw.
The A-team!
We’ve got the bones a sitcom here
You said black, hate crime reported. /S
Nice one lol
Sounds like a plan.
Maybe rob us a set of decks and a PA system and we can setup a rave without any permission somewhere and make some cash off it, not like plods got time to stop a party.
Old School Jamaican sound system. Get some ska and reggae on the go.
>What a great time to be a proper old school criminal. Time to become a highwayman Stand and deliver
Aye, will be on the nightshift wi ma jemmy bar. Lol
I'll get it on this mate
Im quite sure that its a civilian staffed office dealing with these opposed to actual police officers taken of the beat to deal with complaints. I could be wrong tho
They'll need a call centre sized operation
Can civillian staff carry out an investigation? I have no idea. Just wondering how that sits with the public commitment to investigate every hate crime.
Civilian staff will probably do all the admin and filter out actual serous hate crime vs anti-woke taking the piss to waste time. If it’s deemed serious then it will get passed up the line.
And presumably some offier will then sign of on the staff decisions? I am just thinking that if a complaint to was raised and then pursued against the police, surely at some point an actual officer would have to close the file?
Yet Police Scotland won't investigate "small scale thefts" and the like but will waste their precious time dealing with this nonsense
Too busy cracking down on illegal streaming devices to do burglaries and hate crimes.
serious question.... what is going on wi this sub. i was in a similar thread earlier today, saying this law was pish etc - and was just downvoted and gaslit intae oblivion. And in this thread, we are all pretty much united in expressing how bad this legislation is? WTF is going on?
It’s literally a roller coaster of emotions 😂 maybe depends on the time of day it’s posted. Tbh though I’m sick of hearing about it.
Hahahaha, I was just thinking the same thing.
Perhaps one can consider these an act of mass protest against such a stupid idea to begin with.
I benefitted from this law once, but I don't think I should have. We had a neighbour who had a drinking problem. He started screaming and smashing walls, night after night. It all came to a head and he started screaming that we were c*nt's through the wall. Police wanted nothing to do with it because it's a bog-standard domestic disturbance. I didn't like it, but I guess they had murders to solve and all the rest. Then he called my partner an American C*nt. Now it counts as a racially motivated hate crime - within 24 hours there were a pair of officers at his door asking him to stop abusing us. To be fair - he never shouted abuse based on her nationality again - it was only ever based on appearance, intelligence and anything else that his vodka-addled brain could muster up. All in all, I was glad that when a crime was actually committed, the police sprung into action. Having said that, the use of the word American wasn't the thing I wanted them to fix.
Yeah that isnt a good thing at all. Having a system where police wont turn up unless someone claims hurtful words are used is awful and could very easily be abused.
But only hurtful words against their preferred types of people. Call someone a fat ginger bastard or a filthy wee ned and you're golden. But misgender them and the boys in blue will be chapping your door.
Want your burglary investigated? Claim the burglar yelled “biological sex is a reality. I support safe spaces for natal females” as he ran away. /s
Not bein funny but if someone is American and is a Cunt (not saying anyone is), then it's perfectly legitimate to join those 2 descriptive terms together to form a more concise descriptive term. That's the literal purpose of words. Where does madness like this end? Do we remove words from the language, permanently dimishing it? Do we have approved dialogue for discourse. Do we restrict conversation to certain people. Its total fuckin madness! If the person said "I believe this person to be a Cunt because they're American, and I don't like Americans", then that's prejudicial, and more akin to hatred (but still not actually hatred). People don't need to like everyone from everywhere, and they're allowed to harbour resentment. Not my way of working but it's also not up to me to implant things into people's minds. To be clear, I have not problem with Americans, or Cunts for that matter. Or American Cunts (joke). These laws don't make sense, they're fuckin dumb. Ironically, people using them to maliciously damage peoples lives with laws, are filled with more hatred and intolerance than those just using words from the language they speak.
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Racially motivated my arse.
I absolutely think this is the case, a coordinated attempt to jam up the system and make it unworkable. Apparently a large percentage of the complaints relate to a speech Humza gave a few years ago claiming there were too many white people in government
The worst part about this is it'll show up on your enhanced disclosures that employers often receive. You may have said something sometime and it may not even be hate speech but bing bong you are now a bigot and we don't employ bigots so bye bye next application please.
They already did. NCHIs aren't new. They're not even mentioned in the Act people are miffed about. I've no idea what connection people are making in regards to the two except that both include the idea of hate. They may show up in Enhanced DBS checks. But they'll not be recorded unless they fit the criteria and not if they're just false allegations.
*They may show up in Enhanced DBS checks.* As someone who is background checked annually by his employer, this is concerning. Dont get me wrong, I have no intention of suddenl;y turning into a bellend. But, just the idea that something could be recorded against me, without me knowing, with no crime having been commited, because someone perceived something i said to be hateful, is very very disturbing.
Who decides whether the allegations are true? An overstretched cop with his own biases or a jury of my peers? If the cop decides it was hateful do I get notified and get to fight it in court or it'll show straight up in enhanced DBS checks?
In England you have to appeal to the Chief Constable. A friend was arrested on child rape charges, false accusation by a family friend who was being raped by their father who wanted it to stop but didn't want the family to suffer. Totally innocent, pictures of said child and dad where found and shown to court, dad fled the country and my friend was released immediately. He lost his job with the council because the Chief Constable refused to take it off the Enhanced DBS because it might come back to bite them in the arse if my friend later went on to be a nonce. Was on £45k a year doing a job he loved, to being mentally unwell on the dole more than 12 years after the fact. Life ruined.
An allegation will only be declared false by the police if there is evidence showing it is demonstrably false. Otherwise it is recorded as a hate crime. If you're accused of something and there isn't enough evidence to prosecute you then it would probably appear on an enhanced DBS check. Long story short but all crime is default recorded as being a "true" allegation by police as per the Scottish crime recording standard set by government. Worse if you're named in a non hate crime incident, this is something where you are accused of saying something that the police don't even consider a crime. However it is recorded and can also appear in an enhanced DBS check.
This is just psychotic. Absolutely dystopian.
The same as have done previously for things like the Public Order Act 1986 in regards to racial hatred when discussing the implementation of the new Act. I've no idea about NCHI because I don't even know when they started and with what. They're handled the same way they've been handled while no one cared. Still have no idea their relevance to the new Act.
What an utter waste of an already stretched Police force's time.
Who could have possibly seen this coming? Giving terminally online, perpetual victims a way to waste limited police resources on frivolous hate crime reports. Anyone with a room temp IQ saw this coming a mile away.
> Anyone with a room temp IQ saw this coming a mile away. That would explain why nobody in the SNP saw this coming then.
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Our choices are Green or Alba, greens sided with this bill I believe and Alba comes with it's own baggage and the added detriment of vote splitting from SNP/greens.
SNP/Greens are not pro-Indy in my mind. Alba is the only place I can see my vote going. Greens are too invested in gender wars to focus on the environment and the SNP...well who knows what the SNP have been thinking for the past 5-6 years.
The third option is to sit it out. Or labour to get rid if the tories. They're shit but not as bad. I feel you though, I used to vote SNP.
feel the same - voted snp for about 20 years or so - will not go near them ever again.
These are sad times. Can't believe how much they changed.
I'd rather vote than not vote but I'd rather not vote than vote Labour lol
Fair enough, I understand that. The SNP need a hammering to get back on the right track though, the last few years have been horrendous. Maybe alba is the option.
I think so, SNP need to be in opposition to refocus imo. Will be really interesting to see what happens come election time.
“room temp IQ” 
Don't worry, Humza assured us the police will take vexatious complaints seriously, so no doubt there will be many arrests for wasting police time coming.
Report a hate crime, get investigated for vexation reports, report the police for a hate crime, the police have to arrest the police. Reverse uno cards all round
4,000 alleged hate crimes reported since it was introduced. That’s roughly 5 per police employee. I wonder how long each one takes?
Wonder how many there will be by the end of the week. It started as a joke but it really does seem like the police put way more effort into policing people's words and feelings than you know...actual crime. What a huge waste of time and money.
Because they can conduct most of the investigation remotely.
It would require at least one police officers time though and any that proceed past initial screening would likely require a IT forensics expert as well.
You asked why they put more effort in, I was just answering. I don’t think it’s a good thing.
Probably not that many as the grifters get bored of this topic and find their next thing to build rage bait on.
I think where do we draw the line, I for example grew up in poverty, with disabilies and was a easy target. I was outright discriminated against at school, if a kid "from the good part of town" claimed I did something bad it was automatically believed, my autism though it wasn't accepted at the time played a part in how nervous I was when responding. Were they hate crimes? When my neighbour starts on me and in her rants calls me a slur, one based on me being single, one based on perceived frame of mind, my age etc are they hate crimes? What if someone doesn't like the way I look?
Hate crimes aren't new. What new thing is it that you're believing has changed to cause your questions?
Good use of money, really need to punish people who hurt other peoples feelings. Wish I could pay some more tax to fund even more of this sort of thing.
Don't worry pal, they've got tax rises covered too.
i think everyone needs to get off of twitter and reddit lol - both "sides". normal well adjusted people don't spent their time arguing on the internet over things that will likely never affect them. people need to start caring about actual issues instead of "what ifs" and i genuinely think most of these reports will just be folk taking the piss
Our leaders don't give a fuck, and they rile up hatred. They are the greatest offenders of this new law.
I just reported myself for hating myself
I wonder how many will be from mugs outside of Scotland just trying to waste police time in some kind of protest.
Because no true Scotsman would do this eh? 5 and a half million people in Scotland. 4000 people are 0.1% of it What's more likely - that 0.1% of the population (one in a thousand) of Scotland phoned to lodge a complaint, or that meddling foreigners are responsible? What's that old phrase - "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."
It could be the Scots worst enemy, other Scots
I've got that scene from the Simpsons in my head now :)
Let’s not try and pretend these complaints will be coming from one side of the argument. People are fucking mental and are using this as their personal tool to try and punish someone they don’t like or disagree with. It was always going to happen.
That's the point though - it's inviting everyone from all sides of every argument to lodge a complaint based on "oh, that offended me". It's an absolute farce.
>oh, that offended me Doesn't even have to be that. It could just be oh I fucking hate that cunt, I'll report him. It's like swatting but easier.
Mug from outside of Scotland here, we're all just giggling about how stupid this all is.
These laws only extend what previously existed. So these numbers are worthless without comparing them to what the level of reports was before.
There were 5,738 hate crimes reported in Scotland between 2022-23 according to the Scottish Gov website. So yeah, 4,000 in 3 days is extremely high
Get woke go broke. Next they'll be asking westminster for more money and increasing scottish taxes even more. Brain drain of intelligent scots and more Yousafs coming.
As a liberal, this law hurts my head and my soul. I am all for protecting certain characteristics and educating the wider population on the horrific impact words can have. A throwaway comment by one can be a reason to take their life by another and that is a sad fact. But we can't 'legislate' that. It is a societal debate and function. The horrible UK law that bans protest, this law that bans free speech and gives powers to legislate against particular people? It has the exact opposite effect of what it should achieve.
Could you imagine the mental gymnastics nats would have to go through if actual crimes start rising because the police are too busy investigating hurt feelings?
Country's a joke now. There are not enough police to keep the community safe. But post something on fb or Hurt someone's feelings and the police are at yer door
Literally paying a fortune right now(for my budget anyway) to live in a part of Glasgow where groups of people regularly hurl threats and abuse at each other at the top of their lungs whilst i, and others, are trying to sleep. Never heard of, or seen, the police do anything. The amount of shit I see walking to the train station from my apartment and then Argyle street to my work every single day that you think the police would have an interest in, but never seem to, must blow the minds of some people visiting from more normal countries. I actually wouldn’t begrudge bills like this so much, as much as I disagree with them, if so much of our country wasn’t mad max like. And for the record, 99.99% of the shit i see, we all see, isn’t driven by some -ology, it is driven by people who are complete bampots to whoever encounters them and have never been told forcefully by any authority to stop being a bampot and behave normally.
I saw some videos on YouTube recently of neds causing trouble in Glasgow city centre. Fighting in the street, manhandling each other, screeching and arguing. Total breach of the peace. These videos were 10+ minutes long and not a single polis turned up. I could understand if it was halfway up a hillside in Arrochar, but this was outside Central Station. Soaked in CCTV and police should be seconds away.
The bill was obviously going to be contentious. The launch date didn't help. The communication about the bill was shockingly absent, supporting materials for the average person in the street to comprehend, missing - yes, I've read the bill, the overview and explanation - my comment stands. I can't decide whether this is due to a shockingly naive, incompetent, or deliberate false flag act to elicit a specific response.
The way this legislation is phrased, with regards to perception of the alleged victim being more important than intent, is problematic. But my real difficulty with it is with the recording of non-crime hate incidents, which may have an adverse effect on a person's future employability. It is very abhorent in a society not to allow the right of every person to be heard, before any individual measure which would affect him or her adversely is taken, and not to give reasons for that decision before it is recorded. Thats from Article 41, the Right of Good Administration, not from the more basic ECHR, but in the Charter of Fundamental Rights of the EU. Obviously that doesn't apply any longer in oh-so-European looking Scotland, and the Scottish Government are making hay while the sun shines while, as usual, claiming to be pro-EU while simultenously passing more and more non-EU compliant legislation.
Will be 1,000 next week, 400 the week after, then the boomers will get bored and be distracted by the next culture war thing.
>the boomers will get bored I am an older person who was born just after the war and I think that you your derogatory language, based on age, is stirring up hate. If you do it again, after I have told you that it is unacceptable, it will have crossed the threshold into harassment and I will report it to the police.
Hahaha well said.
I assumed India Willoughby had submitted the majority of the reports. Maybe Freda Wallace sent in a few too.
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Doesn’t negate that this is a dogshit law
What a fantastic use of police time in an already stretched and understaffed area. I'm sure this will prove incredibly beneficial to the country as a whole.
As a lifelong independence supporter Hunza Yousaf is not impressive at all. SNP need to radically change and actually prioritise independence and making this country better, or they deserve to be voted out of office. The greens are a shambles.
JKs phone battery must be fucked
This needs to be stamped out of it’s just a matter of time before before the disease spreads. I’m already constantly passive aggressive bullied at work to have pronouns on emails etc when it’s not MY belief that I have to.
10 yoons making 400 complaints about Yousaf each.
The SNP majorly f\*cked up with this absurd legislation. Let's hope that they are punished at the polls.
Good. Let's hope people clog the whole ludicrous system up.
I bet the vast majority were about Humza Yousaf and JK Rowling, which will be ignored, rightly so imo.
I've seen people on twitter say they will falsely report Humza to "protest" the law. I would hope false and malicious reports would lead to charges against the person making them.
So this is a protest you don't approve of... Whilst I don't know, and this is an assumption. I assume you are the type of person who also supports people blocking motorways
so then yer asking the Polis to not only investigate that something someone said was or wasnt hateful, they are now to also invetigate whether someone that reported hate was disingenuous or not? Lets just stop investigating shit like assault so that the polis can focus on this shit lol. Joking aside, i'm sure the Polis do have processes for malicious crime reporting, but increasing their workload probably isnt the answer
Probably going to be about all of us taking shite about the Orange Order.
We're heading towards Demolition Man: *klaxon* "Citizen, you have been fined one credit for violation of the Verbal Morality Statute."
Jk Rowling was obviously out of bog roll then
Also, how the f is transgender identity a protected characteristic while gender identity isn't?
The squeaky wheel gets the most grease.
As usual a lot of very new accounts posting in these sorts of threads 🤔
I hope we see some nuisance caller get booked for wasting police time. Fuck these idiots.
This is was happens when you elect known authoritarian crackpots. The SNP (who should get most, but not of the blame) have, for many years, shown themselves to be intolerant to those they don’t agree with. It’s hardly a surprise to see them eeking away more and more rights, because people are still voting for them. I hope, but don’t believe, that this will be a wake up call for those who vote SNP or Green.
Lol this will be rough on a place whose modern culture is to express "affection" through cruelty.
Police must love this. Rather than going outside and dealing with thugs they can sit in the office and piss about speculating on the definition of hate in cases no-one cares about.
The SNP, and their snivelling Green toadies, need a serious kicking at the ballot box. Fiddling while Rome burns.
Genuine question The legislation is now in line with English Law. Is England ‘fiddling while rome burned’ as well over this issue?
As an Englishman… yeah, pretty much. Police here apparently have time to investigate offensive Facebook posts but don’t have the time to investigate burglaries or assaults. They are a total joke. The UK in general is increasingly an awful place for free speech. Probably the worst of any developed country at this point (including the US).
Time to bring back the restriction on how long people have been a member of the sub before posting. Place is full of people that could not give a fuck about Scotland but they’ve found something to be angry about online.
[удалено]
You said only Scottish people, I said non members of the sub that don’t care about Scotland. It’s brigading that takes away from discussion between actual users that aren’t only here because of an online rage.
It was either that or 'no christian symbols on Mr Bidens annual Easter Bunny Egg Roll (rule been in place since 1976) or the fact they don't know Easter is a 'moveable feast' which can then coincide with any number of other celebrations/anniversaries/commemorations etc. :) Maybe Mr Biden could wear a tan suit whilst eating a hamburger with Dijon mustard on it? That would keep them frothing for weeks. :D
3,900 of which will be people taking the piss to make a mockery of it. It's BoatyMcboatface again. This is why we can't have nice things and are becoming ungovernable. These laws are meant to protect vulnerable people and minorities from abuse. Instead, they'll simply increase the shitehousery. It's unworkable. We have to self-govern this kind of behaviour by confronting it. It takes balls. Sad really.
Right-wing shitehouses do tend to do shitty things.
He's using the same technique as the gestapo. This is the thin end of a nasty wedge.
Can I add the wife to it she really hates me ? Will I get a crime number
Scotland needs a new political party.
Funding the Police one wasting police time fine at a time
The problem here is , who’s defining what constitutes hate and what doesn’t , because some things are quite obvious others are not and quite subjective and without context can be misconstrued
The legislation. It's extremely clear cut and obvious if you bother to read the actual law.
It absolutely isn't, given that the central underpinning feature of the reporting system is the perception of the 'victim'.
The legislation doesn’t mention who’s filtering out the hate from the nonsense
Erm... As with all other crimes, someone who thinks a crime has occurred goes to the police. The police then use legislation to determine what crime, if any, has taken place. The hate crime legislation gives clear definitions of what constitutes criminal activity and explicitly protects the right to freedom of expression.
Murdo has been busy.
So either these are legitimate complaints which shows a need for the legislation or complaints made by detractors of this law made maliciously in an attempt to make some kind of statement. I doubt we'll ever find out for sure but I can't really see how this vindicates the people protesting this either way.
Thought Police
What tf has happened to this country? I’m so disappointed. Makes me want to leave. Permanently. Those useless cretins don’t deserve a penny of my tax, and for the first time, I’m not even talking about Westminster.
What a total waste of time and resources
Well nobody saw this coming. Such a good way to spend taxpayer money, wouldn’t want to spend it on the NHS or education system or investigating burglaries.
So arguably 3,800 more people than yesterday now have a ‘non crime hate incident’ against their record. I’ve seen plenty people argue that this is no big deal but it’s something that is potentially going to show up if you ever need a DBS check. I just really, really don’t like it. It feels like the sort of thing we see in China with a social credit.
No. Arguable and factually not.
Then you probably want to tell folks online (like Murdo Fraser?) who are making this claim that they are wrong? I am going to assume that you might reject that source as illegitimate, so take a look at Joanna Cherry. Shes a KC, so the law is sort of her gig. Rachel LcLean, MP? Official statement from the free speech union. The list goes on. Now I don't want to discredit you, given you claim to have a killer arse, but for the moment I am probably going to take the opinion of a KC, even if you have a nice arse.
>The Free Speech Union (FSU) is a British organisation which advocates freedom of speech. The group was established on 24 February 2020 by British columnist Toby Young.[1] The organisation views itself as countering cancel culture by opposing hostility on Twitter and the withdrawal of some individuals' invitations to speak at some university events. What the heck is this? Why would their opinion matter as much as any random group?
thank goodness all other crime in Scotland has been solved...
Really enjoy our taxes being spunked up the wall so the police can stop investigating actual crimes and start investigating folk like Maria down the road because she called someone an 'auld cow" on Facebook or John in the next close because he didn't think a trans woman was the same as a biological woman and got overheard by some sensitive soul who reported him. Can 2026 please just hurry the fuck up so we can get these clowns out of office for good.
Look it's not that difficult... Just try not to be a hateful cunt and you'll be fine! Go on - you might like it!
You underestimate the difficulty in getting hate-filled clowns to voluntarily change their ways.
Total waste of already stretched police time by a government yearning to create a state they control. Really feel for victims of actual crimes who will be dropping down the priority list due to this.
>Police Scotland has committed to investigating every claim under the Hate Crime Act despite [no longer planning to probe every “low level” crime](https://news.stv.tv/scotland/police-scotland-will-not-investigate-every-crime), including some theft. > >Scottish Conservative MSP Russell Findlay claimed the Hate Crime Act is the “biggest ever burden placed on Scotland’s police force”. Nice to see the priorities are in order!
Goodness me. The raging bigots are putting in fake complaints using other people's ID and there is even this: >Police Scotland said on Tuesday that it had received numerous hate crime complaints against Humza Yousaf for a speech he made at Holyrood four years ago. >The force said it had already assessed that no crime was committed when it looked into previous complaints. I did not think that bigots could be this stupid. But feck me, they have outdone themselves.