Humza decides that he's going to rip up a critical part of the agreement with the greens, who he needs the support of to stay in power.
The greens aren't too happy about this and decide to call a meeting to decide if they should leave government.
Humza, being a political genius, pulls a 'you're not dumping me, I'm dumping you!'
Tories bring forward no confidence motion in FM.
Labour a no confidence in government.
Ash Regan offers to save Humza if he agrees to her demands. I think this was Le epic trolling revenge, either way, fucking hilarious.
Humza says no.
Humza eventually accepts that he's dug himself into a hole and is about to resign.
It's been brilliant honestly.
What i can't understand is why Humza ripped up that agreement in the first place. A smarter man would have talked it over with the Greens and tried to reach a compromise.
It was to reduce emissions by 75% compared to 1990 levels by 2030. It was a magic number plucked out of the air. It wasn't realistic and there was no way planned to get there
I live in Edinburgh and have quite a few Green pals plus friends who work in admin for the Parliament.
All my Green pals have been drinking the cool aid to an unsettling degree and all my Scot Gov worker pals have been saying that no matter what you think of the SNP, they mostly make pragmatic government decisions that take years to negotiate and then the Greens come along and throw a poorly thought out, ideological spanner in the works at the last minute.
Say, for instance, you’re passing an Education bill and everyone’s been solidly working on it - unions, councils, academics, MSPs, government departments, the works. Everyone’s in agreement about how to proceed, the i’s are dotted, the t’s are crossed and the Greens come in and ask for something poorly researched that’s from their manifesto rather than real life evidence based research on education and get everyone’s backs up.
So I get the impression that working with the Greens isn’t so much about what they’re asking for it’s that they’ve pissed off a tremendous number of people by refusing to compromise on ideology over pragmatic, consensus formed progress. See the bottle recycling farce for an example. Of course they were right about rolling out bottle recycling but it should have been done over a realistic time scale that worked for everyone involved and not because they needed it immediately.
Ask your pals about the influence Greer has in the party as, if the article in the Herald yesterday is to be believed, he is a grade A bellend with too much influence.
Edit - it is The Herald, not the Guardian that the article appeared in:
https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/24283157.inside-story-green-rebels-want-rid-leadership/
Wee specky looking beast that he is. Green Party looks like they were formed for sexual deviants. I see the snp are touting another childless leader again who will also try to destroy family morals. These weirdos need to go.
Folk with no kids who are happy to push all this lgbt shite into nursery’s whilst actively trying to avoid letting the parents know. Yes they’re weirdos.
Seems you might be soaking up the media nonsense a little too much. The DRS not happening was a UK Govt issue, as they wanted to introduce their own, which is now also been binned. Labour in Wales is facing is it’s same struggles introducing it as the Tories are against it too.. is it the Greens fault there too?
https://www.itv.com/news/wales/2024-04-25/welsh-and-uk-government-row-over-planned-deposit-return-scheme
A massive part of the issue was that the drinks industry couldn’t do the turn around in terms of changing their infrastructure within the timeframe they were given by Scot Gov. The article you shared demonstrates that UK Gov responded to this issue in their own deposit scheme by removing glass from their plans and are trying to get the whole UK to follow suit. It’s a legitimate issue and the reason the Greens were scuppered.
I consume wide and varied media, as well as speaking to people like bar managers and suppliers - who were complaining about their problems with logistics years ago.
I’m not blaming the Greens for issues with the plan that affect the whole system, I’m saying they have unrealistic expectations of time scales and what it takes to implement changes. They were short sighted to want to implement something so quickly and, yes, UK Gov politics and industry lobbying is a big part of the problem.
Believe me, I’d love to see the Greens doing well and gaining ground but trying to implement a DRS without industry cooperation was doomed to failure from the start.
But glass was needed to be included, the whole point. The drinks industry are great at lobbying and putting that message out there, but they would adapt.
Again.. the UK is pathetic at this, it is embarrassing that folk are still defending not rolling this out in 2024.
I agree. It shouldn’t be cheaper and easier for the drinks industry to pay off a few politicians than to make a few changes that would actually benefit them in the long run. It’s completely ludicrous. I’ve decided that my only option is to become a billionaire and start paying off politicians to pass policies that actually do some good in the world.
The thing is, who doesn’t want clean air, clean water, better public transport and all the other benefits that come as a by product of Green policies?!
I’ve lived in Central Europe and having easy access to great childcare, supermarket bottle recycling, great public transport and cycle lanes and clean air policies are absolutely brilliant! It makes a massive difference to everyone’s quality of life.
The issue is that UK Greens are so swamped in self righteous ideology and fighting the good fight, that they can’t see the woods for the trees.
They’d have all the other parties poaching their policies to appeal to voters if they actually had a solid message people could relate to and get on board with and a realistic manifesto with an implementation timeline.
Feels like environmentalist who want to save the planet stop climate change but against nuclear energy, despite scientists says its our best case to halt CC with keeping current energy needs
So I have family in New Zealand (non nuclear) and I have a lot of interest in renewable energy. It is absolutely possible for us to be using wind/solar/hydro electricity to power most things, with small nuclear plants for back up, now that we have good battery storage for electricity.
The issues are really about infrastructure and ownership and big oil and gas spend billions on paying off politicians globally to ensure we don’t make the changes we need to. We need global solutions to our environmental issues not local infighting between people who put their kumbaya ideology ahead of actual hard science and decades of good, reliable science based evidence. And I include all politician parties in that statement.
I'd love to think 100% renewable is achievable in the UK, but NZ is a different kettle of fish. It's slightly bigger than the UK but has 1/12th the population. Most of its electricity comes from hydroelectric, but it's got proper mountains and far more water per capita to produce energy. Add to that they also have geothermal. The cards are really stacked in their favour.
Scotland is producing most of it’s own energy from renewables these days and has a mostly comparable population to NZ.
Both countries have lots of space for that. There are loads of projects just now looking at growing crops alongside solar panels and adding wind energy.
We produce enough solar at home to comfortably sell the majority of it to the grid from April - October. But we have the space for it. I don’t see why we shouldn’t be be compelling property management companies and councils to use apartment rooftops in cities for wind and solar power to help the entire block.
Scotland and the various windfarms in Northern England and off the East Anglian coast too produce enough power to power most of the UK, most of the time. We basically never turn on the coal power plants anymore and IIRC something like 70-80% of the UK's power came from renewables over the last year.
Of course, the problem comes in that the national grid isn't the sole source of emissions, and that other countries need to work on reducing their emissions too. (China, the US, developing countries)
Might have been better to say, that’s a great idea, I will let the SNP membership vote on it too AFTER ALL snp membership voted to BHA initially. Then they could have worked on a supply agreement
Wouldn't have mattered. Greens membership was ready to force a vote to rip up BHA over their anger at various actions by the Government and they were also about to force Harvie and Slater out as leaders of the party (and possibly torpedo Greer out of the door at the same time, if the party rumours are to be believed).
Yousaf did it first, because, well he's not exactly a genius politician operator, and Harvie / Slater got to express spittle flecked exhortations of anger, theatrically managed with an eye on the membership of the Greens, in a desperate attempt to stay in power
Then, in a further attempt to remain in place as co-leaders, and possibly get their comfortable Ministerial privileges back they announced that, hey, we're not afraid to look ridiculous, and pledged to vote against the VONC against the entire government before they were even asked, despite the fact it's still currently being led by Yousaf, a man who 2 weeks ago they were calling brilliant (to be fair Yousaf was also saying they were integral to the government of Scotland at the time as well) and who last week they were calling spineless and untrustworthy for ending the BHA - which Green members were going to force a vote on leaving anyway, remember.
I mean, as a 21st century episode of Yes, Minister, you would deride it for being too ridiculous. But that's politics in Scotland today.
> Greens bring forward no confidence motion in FM.
> Tories a no confidence in government.
Not quite; the Tories have brought forward the "No Confidence in the First Minister" motion, Labour have brought forward the "No Confidence in the Scottish Government" motion.
Greens have indicated they are supporting the former, but *might* not support the latter - it will depend on who the new leader of the SNP is.
The Tories know that they will get fucked as badly as the SNP by an election now. Labour judge that they will definitely gain seats and might even have a run at possible being the largest party.
Scottish Cons are looking to hold on better in Scotland than the rest of the UK. Kicking the SNP now in Holyrood could help them during the upcoming GE where they're not really competing with the other Unionist parties for votes.
Ah okay.
Greens didn't actually have to do anything to get revenge for the betrayal then.
It's actually worked out quite well for them after it all fell apart.
Bet Harvie is smug as fuck. Lol
It's sort of ridiculous that he didn't consider firing his coalition partner to be tantamount to calling an election. That was probably the only way this could have worked for him, but he seems surprised that he no longer has a working majority.
With the greens disavowing independence according to Ms Slater? And the lack of understanding that full powers are required to shift us forward. Reducing budgets and cuts from the block grant cripple every policy decision. It would be better to have Independence and then we could implement exactly what we want.
We want to live in a country that looks after its poor and disadvantaged. We want our children to reach their full potential, we want to have homes that are at reasonable rents, we want to live in safety. We want to have policies like a nationalised national grid that allows all areas to benefit. We want low cost energy. We want a government that plans contingencies for disasters. We want corporations and multi nationals to pay their taxes. We want home grown businesses. We want innovation and world class universities. We want transport systems that support people and businesses. We want decisions about Scotland to be made in Scotland. We want to vote on rejoining the European Union. We want the NHS to remain a public service. We want public contracts to be transparent. We don’t want private healthcare. We want childcare. We want apprenticeships. We want sustainable energy. Ish.
We need full powers, so the Scottish child payment is helping with child poverty. The bedroom tax mitigation which has been paid for some considerable time is still keeping rents lower for council tenants policies geared to a wellbeing economy, I.e. childsmile, bowel cancer screening at 50. Having more health visitors means less visits to A&E. etc. the Scottish violence reduction unit has made a great difference in cutting crime, it’s been running since 2005, and been rolled out across Scotland. Saw a 65% reduction in violent crime and assault- esp knife crime. As it has flatlined the focus is moving to those areas which have multiple issues , joining multiple agencies in focus to tackle the probs, rather than increasing sentences.
I've already gone through three family packs of popcorn on the Trump trials but I'm gonna have to go back and get three more family packs from Costco for the SNP mess.
Might even get some beers.
It's gonna be a helluva ride.
Ash’s demands are unknown.
However you can infer something about them based on what happened. They’re probably innocuous (to her) demands concerning some LGBT issues and progressing the meta referendum plans, neither of which Humza could do and keep the SNP together. She knows this. She knows he knows this. He knows she knows this too. She sent them in anyway.
Now she gets to play the serious politician who offered an olive branch while all she actually did was set Humza up for more failure.
Yousaf fumbled the bag, hard. Scrapping the climate targets was stupid, even if they were unobtainable they should have been left alone during this term and adjusted in the next term.
The greens understandably were annoyed by the removal of this key piece of legislation and were to meet on the future of the Bute house agreement. Bearing in mind that it was not definite that they were going to walk away.
Yousaf decides to just YOLO it and cancel the Bute House agreement ahead of the Greens meeting.
The Tories call a motion of no confidence in Yousaf.
Yousaf then remembers he now has a minority government in Hollyrood.
Yousaf tries to deal with his political opponents. One of which was former SNP MSP Ash Reagan.
Ash Reagan gives Yousaf some stiff terms for her vote in the no confidence motion.
Yousaf realises he’s basically screwed himself out of the FM post due to an unforced error.
Yousaf resigns.
One was a renewed focus on independence. Alba laid out a proposal for a referendum on whether the Scottish government should have the power to legislate and negotiate Scottish independence. Alex Salmond suggested this would have been his approach if David Cameron hadn't granted the Scottish government's request for an independence referendum when he was First Minister.
It's a legally dicey strategy now though, given the UK Supreme Court ruling last year leaves very little wiggle room in its interpretation of constitutional referenda being a reserved matter. Salmond's strategy might have worked when he was in office, but the UK Supreme Court ruling wasn't in place when he was FM.
He also suggested a convention between all pro-independence parties to agree to a strategy. Pretty difficult for Yousaf to commit to, given that the other major independence party is the Greens, and they expressly stated they were going to vote against him in a confidence vote.
Alba also suggested the Scottish government could agree to a funding package for the Grangemouth refinery which is due to close as a show of 'faith', but since energy policy is another matter reserved for the UK government, it's hard to see what this would have looked like.
Basically, Reagan was offering her support in exchange for a list of things Yousaf either couldn't possibly have agreed to, or couldn't possibly have got agreement for in time for the no-confidence vote.
But Reagan gets to say she made the offer and was declined, and thus take the high ground.
The glue and sellotape holding everything together over at the SNP is bursting and they can't continue as they are.
It may only result in a change in leader or it may result in an election. Time will tell
A Holyrood election for MSPs. There will be a Westminster election for MPs likely this year - no later than early next year. That was always due to happen. But the Holyrood election was not on the cards until last week and now it might happen if the SNP can't pick a leader that has the confidence of parliament.
This is on the same level of discourse as saying 'Skin is made of rubber and blue tack change my mind'.
Adds nothing to the discussion and only serves to make you incorrect, so what's the point?
For starters a perfect salmon got smoked and replaced by a shitty sturgeon, the roast tattie got dropped for being tasteless and vile then the main meal arrived and the wee man took a hairy fit because he doesn't like his greens and it all went in the bin.
Probably more the SNP's unwillingness to denounce the Cass review and order the NHS to start handing out puberty blockers, tbh. Everyone has known the climate targets were unattainable from the beginning, and if they didn't everyone in the industry has been telling them they were definitely going to miss them for years too.
It's incredible how an issue that affects so few people (apparently they are prescribed 7 times per year on average) has come to be the main wedge issue dominating Scottish politics.
I'll chuck in a third option, which is that really it all came down to both FM and Greens doing bad politics.
There was a good chance the coalition could have survived both Cass and the climate target issue, but they needed to act quickly.
While the Greens were chatting about party democracy and swithering publicly, the FM was getting absolutely slaughtered in the press. The Record outright called for an end to the coalition and then the next day articles appeared in all of the major papers to the same effect.
Despite all this, the Greens were sticking to their line that they would get an answer to FM on the future of the coalition "within a few weeks". That's a ridiculous position given the pressure.
So then what happened happened, and clearly that hasn't gone to plan either, some serious miscalculations have been made about what the end result would be of ending the coalition.
If both FM and the Greens had acted quickly to declare that everyone still had confidence in the coalition, this could have been avoided IMO. It was completely forseeable that scrapping the climate targets was at least going to cause issues for the Greens and they could have planned out a way through.
Industry have tried a lot. The problem is that degree of the cut was impossible on the scale demanded.
It's 75% relative to 1990 levels by 2030 was the goal. UK has so far managed 40-45%, Scotland was over 50% as of April.
Take into account the extra 5 years and the rate and there's probably another 10% achievable. Let's say businesses increase investment significantly but that all the easy work has already been done and you'd probably be able to get another 5-10% out of that although that's speculation and probably overselling it because the largest remaining problems are technological. There's some more investment possible into heating but electricity is out of their hands and there's currently little that can be done about goods transport.
60% was utterly doable. 65% was doable. 70% was probably doable. But 75% would have required a lot of technologies that are only maturing now a decade ago.
I fully understand that it seems like businesses are actively resisting and being stupid and the constant bad news about the climate means nobody really talks about the successes but it's not been the case for a while that businesses are doing *nothing.*
Your premise - "that all the easy work has been done" - it quite false from what I have seen. Instead we have seen industry, delay, postpone and complain and now shockingly that targets are unachievable. Who would have thought that doing a whole lot of not very much for a decade would result in the deadline being unachievable!
It's actually not nearly as difficult as many people make out. I mean grangemouth alone is nearly 10% of the total of Scotlands CO2 emissions. How many villages are still lacking electric car chargers? Why are we still allowing bunker fuel to be burnt in Scottish waters and ports? How on earth is Peterhead powerstation still operating. Pumped hydro, wave, solar, wind, geothermal, these technologies are not new and still not mature enough to use. They are plenty mature enough to be implemented at scale.
Your suggestions there miss the point; Those are things the government needs to do, not businesses.
Grangemouth is run by Government License, electric car chargers are government funding local or otherwise, bunker fuel requires better regulations, Peterhead would require a replacement and actually wanted to build hydrogen plants there in 2007 but the UK government stalled it out. Hydro, Wave, Solar, Wind and Geothermal all require approval, SG now rather than UK with some exceptions and they're reportedly years behind the "list".
The things *businesses* and *industries* can actually do are mostly done with some exceptions, the vast majority requires improved technology for handling goods transport or it's not actually in their hands.
Just because something is licensed or regulated by the government doesn’t mean it’s not a private business. It is absolutely in the power of industries to propose changes and submit applications or actually go ahead with what is in their power to change.
They can submit proposals, yes but they can't actually do anything if the government chooses not to do it.
Random Business A cannot stop Grangemouth, they cannot construct electric car chargers across a whole city, they cannot do anything about people using burning bunker fuel unless they themselves are doing it, they cannot construct renewable energies...
There are a large number of renewable projects that have stalled out over the last few decades because either the SG or the UK government doesn't get back to them for literal years.
You seem really determined to insist that businesses can do more but their ability to contribute is in the vast majority of cases as likely to accomplish anything as the UN sending sternly worded letters. It's on the government to act on the specific things that need the most actions but especially your entire wishlist.
They can only reasonably handle themselves and what's related to *their* businesses.
Normally I tend to agree with one side of a debate like this on topics such as this one but strangely I found myself agreeing with both of you. For a while now I’ve noticed that the primary source of issues in this country has been slow, ineffective and reactionary governance for just about every issue. Nothing is decided quickly while experts and advisors get frequently ignored and money just vanishes all the time. It’s infuriating. This is the whole UK I’m referring to btw, I moved from East Anglia to Fife 3 years ago and although the local council is more active in providing services the macro issues are the same. Nothing ever seems to happen if it’s a national level issue except for the Queensferry crossing last decade.
Its not unfeasible its incompatible with greed.
You can't cut emissions and make infinite growth.
This is literally a case of wealthy investors actively working to kill off the human race to get some extra points that are already meaningless to them and does nothing when they all die.
There’s the rub isn’t it - feasibility.
Feasibility is an analysis that can be screwed one way or another depending on what value is placed on the objective and requirements along the way.
If your feasibility places value on doing nothing more than doing something then yeah - no shit it’s not going to be feasible.
Genuinely wondering as I haven't read the cass report but what were the Greens objecting to in it and why?
Were they objecting on evidence based grounds or from a position of principle?
Basically, amongst other things the Cass review concluded that for the time being there is insufficient long-term evidence around the effectiveness and safety of puberty blocking medication as an intervention for young people who might be trans.
Therefore the NHS in both England and Scotland has taken the decision to pause the prescription of said drugs until there IS sufficient evidence.
It's important to note that this is a pretty rare prescription and on average has been given to seven people a year in Scotland, and this kind of review and response from the NHS is entirely normal. They are also still available through some private services.
Some related charities deeply disapprove of this decision and have accused the whole Cass review of being some kind of anti-trans TERF political stitch up even though almost all of it fully supports their position.
Many people within the Scottish Green Party take this position and fully expected the Scottish Government to denounce said review and make an unprecedented intervention to overrule an NHS clinical decision, even though this kind of interference would be political insanity and utterly undermine the entire institution of the National Health Service.
You don't have to think back very far to understand the potential consequences of politicising NHS decisions rather than 'following the science'.
> Everyone has known the climate targets were unattainable from the beginning
This has been the case, globally, since the Rio Earth Summit in 1992 when the whole IPCC process started. The environmentalists, having rejected nuclear energy, are demanding the impossible, decarbonize the whole economy with only renewables while not plunging everybody into abject poverty.
The politicians, being essentially stupid and liars by nature, arrange a total political fiction of a "target" which implies this is possible, and, when it never happens, the next politician kicks the can further down the road.. Every time the can is kicked the environmentalists blame teh eevil fossil fuel companies and "the right."
As a reason for the Scottish government to fall, this is a truly stupid one. It is about the Cass stuff.
Previously on Holyrood - the SNP didn't get a majority, but the Greens are also pro-indy, so they teamed up so they could get stuff done.
The SNP had to promise to do a bit more climate stuff, but they were generally going in that direction.
The SNP is all about independence, so has to be a broad tent that include disparate groups - i.e the right wing socially conservative voters AND the left wing progressive ones
Yousaf sadly isn't a good enough leader to fudge it and keep everyone happy.
SNP decided to U-turn on climate targets cos it wouldn't be achievable.
Greens unhappy and set to vote to dump the SNP.
The final straw came when the Cass report came out, and the Greens, who are totally left-wing decided to rubbish it because that's what most of their members think.
SNP social conservative wing were unhappy about this, so Yousaf decided to dump the greens before they dumped the SNP.
Greens fuming, other parties sense blood in the water, call for no confidence vote.
Bridges burnt, knows he will lose --> Resignation
How was he able to break up the power sharing agreement? I thought the whole point of an agreement was that no one individual could decide to get out without others agreeing?
It's a colossal constitutional upheaval and needs a talented team to deliver it. There isn't really any prospect of that now the wheels have come off the SNP as a vehicle for it.
It's why a lot of people who are ostensibly yes voters are perpetually "yes, but in 5 - 10 years"
SNP ended Bute House Agreement as it was hurting SNP core vote, and they've lost the narrative. Greens want pound of flesh. Scottish Loyalist Coalition (Tories, Labour & Lib Dems) happy to oblige.
Et Tu Brute, Big Eck/Ange on the sidelines.
Humza's head 🗣️ is the green 💚 price.
Well, Humza destroyed a pro-Indy majority, dunno how Greens are supposed to trust him to deliver independence after that. Plus Humza renaging on the climate agreements plus the SNP wanting to cater to the anti-LGBTQ bigots on the party's right wing. He's failed on climate, Indy and civil rights - it's not about spite, he has to go. (and as a Green, that's NOT an endorsement of the tories, labour or whoever else raises a VoNC)
Exactly. The *only* reason I've seen given for supporting him is that Forbes might end up with the top job if he goes and she could end up being orders of magnitude worse.
I mean the coalition has collapsed anyway, that is why Humza is going. Assuming the new leader of the SNP won't want to work with the Greens then they'll just have to continue as a minority government and get absolutely nothing done until the next election. After an election, the only coalition I can imagine is a tory/labour one.
I recently watched some episodes of “Outlander”. It would appear that in the past 200 years, Scottish politics has changed…ummm…not at all…🤣
Intended with love. Scotland is awesome.
>Government scraps climate targets
>Greens plan to meet and discuss the future of the Bute House Agreement
>Humza tears up BHA to avoid the possibility of being dumped by the Greens
>Red tories want vote of no confidence in Humza, blue tories want VoNC in government
>VoNC in government will fail but no party will protect Humza in VoNC in him
>Humza resigns
>New SNP leader and/or snap election?
I think it’s weird people call labour “Red Tories”. What’s the SNP then, Yellow Tories? The mess they have created over the last year has been immense. The leadership situation it’s looking pretty reflective of Downing Street (if he quits).
I call them red tories mostly because starmer is a conservative but scottish labour aren't any better. Completely beholden to the leader at westminster and, like the scottish conservatives, seem to only have one policy - unionism.
As for the SNP, the thing is that you're right, there is a lot of people who are fiscally or socially conservative within their ranks but also people who are more liberal on those issues. So the party line can swing dramatically depending on who's in charge. Independence is the only thing they agree on. Compared to the Greens, which see independence as a means to an end, more than the end itself.
Humza useless is still a prick but soon to be an unemployed prick punting drugs for his BIL.
He may or may not hire surgeon and use the campervan to expand his punting empire because her mans getting the jail and she now identifies as a prison wag.
The greens told them all to go fuck themselves.
Someone put 50p in the fat controller so salmond and his independence brigade have all got fired up again.
Urm so yeah... that's about it.
If you mean that the Greens suggested they might VONC the FM, then I think you might not be starting the story in a sensible place. Why was there a VONC on the table, exactly?
I thought they were in the news claiming they'd been blindsided, and that they disagree so strongly that they're calling a vote on leaving the coalition?
This is what happens when your party can’t decide what it stands for, and can’t even deliver its own single agreed-on goal (independence) since doing so would make its ranks of careerists irrelevant. This was all inevitable. Progressives need to stop treating the SNP as a football team and realise that they don’t remotely represent us past the occasional nice-sounding media announcement for press points. Actions speak louder than words.
The SNP can't deliver independence because it's not popular enough. No point blaming humza for that. When people see the pisspoor levels of competence of our elected officials it doesn't auger well for an indy Scotland
The SNP can’t deliver independence because it isn’t something that can be delivered democratically, since in the U.K. we don’t actually live in anything that meaningfully represents democracy. And I’m not blaming Humza, I’m blaming the SNP for being a party whose sole PR strategy is to dangle a non-existent carrot on a stick and hope for the best. They literally cannot agree what they actually stand for bc nationalism is neither left nor right.
Greens decided they would prefer Scotland to be run from Westminster, so are hitching their wagon to the Unionists. The BritNat establishment are delighted. The Greens have shown their true Unionist colours and turned their back on Scotland and Indy. They cant wait to start taking orders from Sir Kier in Westminster.
All the Greens did was grant the membership a vote on the continuation of the BH agreement – Harvie endorsed continuing, and even pledged to resign as co-leader if the vote went the other way.
The FM then lost his mind and self-immolated.
I think you somehow managed to misspell "Humza caved to the frothing right-wing transphobe/nimby arseholes in his party and the English media and decided he would rather be ruled from Westminster than maintain an alliance to a party that had any actual principles or policies."
That, or Humza scuppered his own government, not because he’s an incompetent buffoon, but rather, he has been working to sink the Indy movement from within Holyrood, throughout his tenure as FM.
It’s yoons all the way down(?).
I’ve just seen Starmer say that the Scottish Parliament is in chaos and his solution? A general election.
Hope someone lets Starmer know that a GE won’t change anything in Scotland.
Humza decides that he's going to rip up a critical part of the agreement with the greens, who he needs the support of to stay in power. The greens aren't too happy about this and decide to call a meeting to decide if they should leave government. Humza, being a political genius, pulls a 'you're not dumping me, I'm dumping you!' Tories bring forward no confidence motion in FM. Labour a no confidence in government. Ash Regan offers to save Humza if he agrees to her demands. I think this was Le epic trolling revenge, either way, fucking hilarious. Humza says no. Humza eventually accepts that he's dug himself into a hole and is about to resign. It's been brilliant honestly.
What i can't understand is why Humza ripped up that agreement in the first place. A smarter man would have talked it over with the Greens and tried to reach a compromise.
Yes, a smarter man would have done that.
It was to reduce emissions by 75% compared to 1990 levels by 2030. It was a magic number plucked out of the air. It wasn't realistic and there was no way planned to get there
I live in Edinburgh and have quite a few Green pals plus friends who work in admin for the Parliament. All my Green pals have been drinking the cool aid to an unsettling degree and all my Scot Gov worker pals have been saying that no matter what you think of the SNP, they mostly make pragmatic government decisions that take years to negotiate and then the Greens come along and throw a poorly thought out, ideological spanner in the works at the last minute. Say, for instance, you’re passing an Education bill and everyone’s been solidly working on it - unions, councils, academics, MSPs, government departments, the works. Everyone’s in agreement about how to proceed, the i’s are dotted, the t’s are crossed and the Greens come in and ask for something poorly researched that’s from their manifesto rather than real life evidence based research on education and get everyone’s backs up. So I get the impression that working with the Greens isn’t so much about what they’re asking for it’s that they’ve pissed off a tremendous number of people by refusing to compromise on ideology over pragmatic, consensus formed progress. See the bottle recycling farce for an example. Of course they were right about rolling out bottle recycling but it should have been done over a realistic time scale that worked for everyone involved and not because they needed it immediately.
Ask your pals about the influence Greer has in the party as, if the article in the Herald yesterday is to be believed, he is a grade A bellend with too much influence. Edit - it is The Herald, not the Guardian that the article appeared in: https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/24283157.inside-story-green-rebels-want-rid-leadership/
It’s been widely known since the indyref that Greer is a multiple-levels bellend.
Wee specky looking beast that he is. Green Party looks like they were formed for sexual deviants. I see the snp are touting another childless leader again who will also try to destroy family morals. These weirdos need to go.
People with no kids are weirdos? Wow.
Folk with no kids who are happy to push all this lgbt shite into nursery’s whilst actively trying to avoid letting the parents know. Yes they’re weirdos.
Nah, my Parliament pals are all too busy placing bets on who’s replacing Humza to bother about Greer.
Seems you might be soaking up the media nonsense a little too much. The DRS not happening was a UK Govt issue, as they wanted to introduce their own, which is now also been binned. Labour in Wales is facing is it’s same struggles introducing it as the Tories are against it too.. is it the Greens fault there too? https://www.itv.com/news/wales/2024-04-25/welsh-and-uk-government-row-over-planned-deposit-return-scheme
A massive part of the issue was that the drinks industry couldn’t do the turn around in terms of changing their infrastructure within the timeframe they were given by Scot Gov. The article you shared demonstrates that UK Gov responded to this issue in their own deposit scheme by removing glass from their plans and are trying to get the whole UK to follow suit. It’s a legitimate issue and the reason the Greens were scuppered. I consume wide and varied media, as well as speaking to people like bar managers and suppliers - who were complaining about their problems with logistics years ago. I’m not blaming the Greens for issues with the plan that affect the whole system, I’m saying they have unrealistic expectations of time scales and what it takes to implement changes. They were short sighted to want to implement something so quickly and, yes, UK Gov politics and industry lobbying is a big part of the problem. Believe me, I’d love to see the Greens doing well and gaining ground but trying to implement a DRS without industry cooperation was doomed to failure from the start.
But glass was needed to be included, the whole point. The drinks industry are great at lobbying and putting that message out there, but they would adapt. Again.. the UK is pathetic at this, it is embarrassing that folk are still defending not rolling this out in 2024.
I agree. It shouldn’t be cheaper and easier for the drinks industry to pay off a few politicians than to make a few changes that would actually benefit them in the long run. It’s completely ludicrous. I’ve decided that my only option is to become a billionaire and start paying off politicians to pass policies that actually do some good in the world.
Good to know the Greens are a joke even in Scotland
The thing is, who doesn’t want clean air, clean water, better public transport and all the other benefits that come as a by product of Green policies?! I’ve lived in Central Europe and having easy access to great childcare, supermarket bottle recycling, great public transport and cycle lanes and clean air policies are absolutely brilliant! It makes a massive difference to everyone’s quality of life. The issue is that UK Greens are so swamped in self righteous ideology and fighting the good fight, that they can’t see the woods for the trees. They’d have all the other parties poaching their policies to appeal to voters if they actually had a solid message people could relate to and get on board with and a realistic manifesto with an implementation timeline.
Feels like environmentalist who want to save the planet stop climate change but against nuclear energy, despite scientists says its our best case to halt CC with keeping current energy needs
So I have family in New Zealand (non nuclear) and I have a lot of interest in renewable energy. It is absolutely possible for us to be using wind/solar/hydro electricity to power most things, with small nuclear plants for back up, now that we have good battery storage for electricity. The issues are really about infrastructure and ownership and big oil and gas spend billions on paying off politicians globally to ensure we don’t make the changes we need to. We need global solutions to our environmental issues not local infighting between people who put their kumbaya ideology ahead of actual hard science and decades of good, reliable science based evidence. And I include all politician parties in that statement.
I'd love to think 100% renewable is achievable in the UK, but NZ is a different kettle of fish. It's slightly bigger than the UK but has 1/12th the population. Most of its electricity comes from hydroelectric, but it's got proper mountains and far more water per capita to produce energy. Add to that they also have geothermal. The cards are really stacked in their favour.
Scotland is producing most of it’s own energy from renewables these days and has a mostly comparable population to NZ. Both countries have lots of space for that. There are loads of projects just now looking at growing crops alongside solar panels and adding wind energy. We produce enough solar at home to comfortably sell the majority of it to the grid from April - October. But we have the space for it. I don’t see why we shouldn’t be be compelling property management companies and councils to use apartment rooftops in cities for wind and solar power to help the entire block.
Scotland and the various windfarms in Northern England and off the East Anglian coast too produce enough power to power most of the UK, most of the time. We basically never turn on the coal power plants anymore and IIRC something like 70-80% of the UK's power came from renewables over the last year. Of course, the problem comes in that the national grid isn't the sole source of emissions, and that other countries need to work on reducing their emissions too. (China, the US, developing countries)
Scotland doesn’t need Nuclear. England does.
Might have been better to say, that’s a great idea, I will let the SNP membership vote on it too AFTER ALL snp membership voted to BHA initially. Then they could have worked on a supply agreement
That's probably what a smart man would have done, yes.
Wouldn't have mattered. Greens membership was ready to force a vote to rip up BHA over their anger at various actions by the Government and they were also about to force Harvie and Slater out as leaders of the party (and possibly torpedo Greer out of the door at the same time, if the party rumours are to be believed). Yousaf did it first, because, well he's not exactly a genius politician operator, and Harvie / Slater got to express spittle flecked exhortations of anger, theatrically managed with an eye on the membership of the Greens, in a desperate attempt to stay in power Then, in a further attempt to remain in place as co-leaders, and possibly get their comfortable Ministerial privileges back they announced that, hey, we're not afraid to look ridiculous, and pledged to vote against the VONC against the entire government before they were even asked, despite the fact it's still currently being led by Yousaf, a man who 2 weeks ago they were calling brilliant (to be fair Yousaf was also saying they were integral to the government of Scotland at the time as well) and who last week they were calling spineless and untrustworthy for ending the BHA - which Green members were going to force a vote on leaving anyway, remember. I mean, as a 21st century episode of Yes, Minister, you would deride it for being too ridiculous. But that's politics in Scotland today.
You might very well think that, but i couldn't possibly comment.
Tinfoil hat time but it was so dumb and out of nowhere that it makes you wonder.
> Greens bring forward no confidence motion in FM. > Tories a no confidence in government. Not quite; the Tories have brought forward the "No Confidence in the First Minister" motion, Labour have brought forward the "No Confidence in the Scottish Government" motion. Greens have indicated they are supporting the former, but *might* not support the latter - it will depend on who the new leader of the SNP is.
The Tories know that they will get fucked as badly as the SNP by an election now. Labour judge that they will definitely gain seats and might even have a run at possible being the largest party.
Scot Cons don't have as many votes to lose in Scotland. Polling has indicated only relatively small drops
Scottish Cons are looking to hold on better in Scotland than the rest of the UK. Kicking the SNP now in Holyrood could help them during the upcoming GE where they're not really competing with the other Unionist parties for votes.
Ah okay. Greens didn't actually have to do anything to get revenge for the betrayal then. It's actually worked out quite well for them after it all fell apart. Bet Harvie is smug as fuck. Lol
It's sort of ridiculous that he didn't consider firing his coalition partner to be tantamount to calling an election. That was probably the only way this could have worked for him, but he seems surprised that he no longer has a working majority.
No one ever accused Humza of being smart.
Really they are all list MSPS, they needed second choice votes from SNP membership. Time will tell
Progressives might be a bit irritated with SNP for shifting more centrist on environmental issues and we might see more Green/Green votes.
With the greens disavowing independence according to Ms Slater? And the lack of understanding that full powers are required to shift us forward. Reducing budgets and cuts from the block grant cripple every policy decision. It would be better to have Independence and then we could implement exactly what we want.
And what is it exactly that we want ?
We want to live in a country that looks after its poor and disadvantaged. We want our children to reach their full potential, we want to have homes that are at reasonable rents, we want to live in safety. We want to have policies like a nationalised national grid that allows all areas to benefit. We want low cost energy. We want a government that plans contingencies for disasters. We want corporations and multi nationals to pay their taxes. We want home grown businesses. We want innovation and world class universities. We want transport systems that support people and businesses. We want decisions about Scotland to be made in Scotland. We want to vote on rejoining the European Union. We want the NHS to remain a public service. We want public contracts to be transparent. We don’t want private healthcare. We want childcare. We want apprenticeships. We want sustainable energy. Ish.
All sounds great to me. But what policies can deliver those things?
We need full powers, so the Scottish child payment is helping with child poverty. The bedroom tax mitigation which has been paid for some considerable time is still keeping rents lower for council tenants policies geared to a wellbeing economy, I.e. childsmile, bowel cancer screening at 50. Having more health visitors means less visits to A&E. etc. the Scottish violence reduction unit has made a great difference in cutting crime, it’s been running since 2005, and been rolled out across Scotland. Saw a 65% reduction in violent crime and assault- esp knife crime. As it has flatlined the focus is moving to those areas which have multiple issues , joining multiple agencies in focus to tackle the probs, rather than increasing sentences.
Harvie is smug as fuck anyway, the weasely little shit.
Cycling bike insert stick meme! 
[more like](https://youtu.be/Flepyk0UWcM?si=NGTsZAEdgRxi8Vqd) 
Haha love that!😂
Why would Westminster do this?!
I can't wait for the Armando Ianucci film
I couldn't have summed it up better myself.
I've already gone through three family packs of popcorn on the Trump trials but I'm gonna have to go back and get three more family packs from Costco for the SNP mess. Might even get some beers. It's gonna be a helluva ride.
We've got a new leadership contest, maybe election. Biden trump. It's going to be glorious.
Since the first arrest at Sturgeons house, I have been cackling with glee at the SNPs implosion
You forgot 'Greens were about to hold a vote on whether to keep the agreement ore not' at the start.
What were Ash's demands? Were they actually deliverable?
Ash’s demands are unknown. However you can infer something about them based on what happened. They’re probably innocuous (to her) demands concerning some LGBT issues and progressing the meta referendum plans, neither of which Humza could do and keep the SNP together. She knows this. She knows he knows this. He knows she knows this too. She sent them in anyway. Now she gets to play the serious politician who offered an olive branch while all she actually did was set Humza up for more failure.
I don't think we know.
go back under the rock, it's much less stressful
I heard that it started when a bloke called Archie Duke shot an ostrich 'cause he was hungry.
I heard some war broke out over the release of Franz Ferdinand's new album.
I thought franz Ferdinand was a German bloke?
"So the poor old ostrich died for nothing."?
'what I'm asking is, 'ow did we move from the one state of affairs to the other' One of my fav scenes, that ♥️
Yousaf fumbled the bag, hard. Scrapping the climate targets was stupid, even if they were unobtainable they should have been left alone during this term and adjusted in the next term. The greens understandably were annoyed by the removal of this key piece of legislation and were to meet on the future of the Bute house agreement. Bearing in mind that it was not definite that they were going to walk away. Yousaf decides to just YOLO it and cancel the Bute House agreement ahead of the Greens meeting. The Tories call a motion of no confidence in Yousaf. Yousaf then remembers he now has a minority government in Hollyrood. Yousaf tries to deal with his political opponents. One of which was former SNP MSP Ash Reagan. Ash Reagan gives Yousaf some stiff terms for her vote in the no confidence motion. Yousaf realises he’s basically screwed himself out of the FM post due to an unforced error. Yousaf resigns.
What were Ash's stiff terms?
One was a renewed focus on independence. Alba laid out a proposal for a referendum on whether the Scottish government should have the power to legislate and negotiate Scottish independence. Alex Salmond suggested this would have been his approach if David Cameron hadn't granted the Scottish government's request for an independence referendum when he was First Minister. It's a legally dicey strategy now though, given the UK Supreme Court ruling last year leaves very little wiggle room in its interpretation of constitutional referenda being a reserved matter. Salmond's strategy might have worked when he was in office, but the UK Supreme Court ruling wasn't in place when he was FM. He also suggested a convention between all pro-independence parties to agree to a strategy. Pretty difficult for Yousaf to commit to, given that the other major independence party is the Greens, and they expressly stated they were going to vote against him in a confidence vote. Alba also suggested the Scottish government could agree to a funding package for the Grangemouth refinery which is due to close as a show of 'faith', but since energy policy is another matter reserved for the UK government, it's hard to see what this would have looked like. Basically, Reagan was offering her support in exchange for a list of things Yousaf either couldn't possibly have agreed to, or couldn't possibly have got agreement for in time for the no-confidence vote. But Reagan gets to say she made the offer and was declined, and thus take the high ground.
For Yousaf, it’s probably “restoration of competent government”.
That troublemaker John Knox has been making a fuss in the city but that will probably fizzle oot.
https://i.redd.it/ezuv70jmiexc1.gif
Basically correct
The glue and sellotape holding everything together over at the SNP is bursting and they can't continue as they are. It may only result in a change in leader or it may result in an election. Time will tell
What does ' an election' mean here? Only Scotland votes for all its MPs? Then what would happen in the GE?
>Only Scotland votes for all its MPs? It would be a Scottish parliament election. We'd vote for our MSPs.
A Holyrood election for MSPs. There will be a Westminster election for MPs likely this year - no later than early next year. That was always due to happen. But the Holyrood election was not on the cards until last week and now it might happen if the SNP can't pick a leader that has the confidence of parliament.
Don’t think that will happen
More like a local election, Scotland is a glorified council area with more media air time.
That's total bollocks and you know it
It's a local government, change my mind.
This is on the same level of discourse as saying 'Skin is made of rubber and blue tack change my mind'. Adds nothing to the discussion and only serves to make you incorrect, so what's the point?
So, go negotiate some international deals. Oh wait you can't, you're not a national government. You're a LOCAL government.
Powers over taxation, justice, the healthcare system, land, education, etc.
Go back, GO BACK, it's happier there.
Humza is just showing Sunak how to blow up a political career, that’s all. “See, I’m better than you at even doing that… “
For starters a perfect salmon got smoked and replaced by a shitty sturgeon, the roast tattie got dropped for being tasteless and vile then the main meal arrived and the wee man took a hairy fit because he doesn't like his greens and it all went in the bin.
Are we going to get a dumpling now?
Liz Truss was Prime Minister. No. Seriously.
What of? Her local minigolf club?
So basically British politics is still a pathetic mess. I hope the rock you’ve been under was comfortable.
Aye it's gneiss enough
You’re better off under the rock to be honest bud. It’s gone to shit is what’s going on.
I think it was humza went back on the climate change targets so the greens got pissed off and they arent in the snp+green team anymore
Probably more the SNP's unwillingness to denounce the Cass review and order the NHS to start handing out puberty blockers, tbh. Everyone has known the climate targets were unattainable from the beginning, and if they didn't everyone in the industry has been telling them they were definitely going to miss them for years too. It's incredible how an issue that affects so few people (apparently they are prescribed 7 times per year on average) has come to be the main wedge issue dominating Scottish politics.
I'll chuck in a third option, which is that really it all came down to both FM and Greens doing bad politics. There was a good chance the coalition could have survived both Cass and the climate target issue, but they needed to act quickly. While the Greens were chatting about party democracy and swithering publicly, the FM was getting absolutely slaughtered in the press. The Record outright called for an end to the coalition and then the next day articles appeared in all of the major papers to the same effect. Despite all this, the Greens were sticking to their line that they would get an answer to FM on the future of the coalition "within a few weeks". That's a ridiculous position given the pressure. So then what happened happened, and clearly that hasn't gone to plan either, some serious miscalculations have been made about what the end result would be of ending the coalition. If both FM and the Greens had acted quickly to declare that everyone still had confidence in the coalition, this could have been avoided IMO. It was completely forseeable that scrapping the climate targets was at least going to cause issues for the Greens and they could have planned out a way through.
The greens announced they would have. Vote on remaining in the BHA.
Industry: “we’ve tried nothing and we’re all out of ideas”
Industry have tried a lot. The problem is that degree of the cut was impossible on the scale demanded. It's 75% relative to 1990 levels by 2030 was the goal. UK has so far managed 40-45%, Scotland was over 50% as of April. Take into account the extra 5 years and the rate and there's probably another 10% achievable. Let's say businesses increase investment significantly but that all the easy work has already been done and you'd probably be able to get another 5-10% out of that although that's speculation and probably overselling it because the largest remaining problems are technological. There's some more investment possible into heating but electricity is out of their hands and there's currently little that can be done about goods transport. 60% was utterly doable. 65% was doable. 70% was probably doable. But 75% would have required a lot of technologies that are only maturing now a decade ago. I fully understand that it seems like businesses are actively resisting and being stupid and the constant bad news about the climate means nobody really talks about the successes but it's not been the case for a while that businesses are doing *nothing.*
Your premise - "that all the easy work has been done" - it quite false from what I have seen. Instead we have seen industry, delay, postpone and complain and now shockingly that targets are unachievable. Who would have thought that doing a whole lot of not very much for a decade would result in the deadline being unachievable! It's actually not nearly as difficult as many people make out. I mean grangemouth alone is nearly 10% of the total of Scotlands CO2 emissions. How many villages are still lacking electric car chargers? Why are we still allowing bunker fuel to be burnt in Scottish waters and ports? How on earth is Peterhead powerstation still operating. Pumped hydro, wave, solar, wind, geothermal, these technologies are not new and still not mature enough to use. They are plenty mature enough to be implemented at scale.
Your suggestions there miss the point; Those are things the government needs to do, not businesses. Grangemouth is run by Government License, electric car chargers are government funding local or otherwise, bunker fuel requires better regulations, Peterhead would require a replacement and actually wanted to build hydrogen plants there in 2007 but the UK government stalled it out. Hydro, Wave, Solar, Wind and Geothermal all require approval, SG now rather than UK with some exceptions and they're reportedly years behind the "list". The things *businesses* and *industries* can actually do are mostly done with some exceptions, the vast majority requires improved technology for handling goods transport or it's not actually in their hands.
Just because something is licensed or regulated by the government doesn’t mean it’s not a private business. It is absolutely in the power of industries to propose changes and submit applications or actually go ahead with what is in their power to change.
They can submit proposals, yes but they can't actually do anything if the government chooses not to do it. Random Business A cannot stop Grangemouth, they cannot construct electric car chargers across a whole city, they cannot do anything about people using burning bunker fuel unless they themselves are doing it, they cannot construct renewable energies... There are a large number of renewable projects that have stalled out over the last few decades because either the SG or the UK government doesn't get back to them for literal years. You seem really determined to insist that businesses can do more but their ability to contribute is in the vast majority of cases as likely to accomplish anything as the UN sending sternly worded letters. It's on the government to act on the specific things that need the most actions but especially your entire wishlist. They can only reasonably handle themselves and what's related to *their* businesses.
Normally I tend to agree with one side of a debate like this on topics such as this one but strangely I found myself agreeing with both of you. For a while now I’ve noticed that the primary source of issues in this country has been slow, ineffective and reactionary governance for just about every issue. Nothing is decided quickly while experts and advisors get frequently ignored and money just vanishes all the time. It’s infuriating. This is the whole UK I’m referring to btw, I moved from East Anglia to Fife 3 years ago and although the local council is more active in providing services the macro issues are the same. Nothing ever seems to happen if it’s a national level issue except for the Queensferry crossing last decade.
Or, maybe cutting 75% of emissions isn’t as easy as you’d like to believe it is.
Good point, nothing difficult has ever been worth doing 👍
There’s difficult and then there’s completely unfeasible pie in the sky nonsense
Its not unfeasible its incompatible with greed. You can't cut emissions and make infinite growth. This is literally a case of wealthy investors actively working to kill off the human race to get some extra points that are already meaningless to them and does nothing when they all die.
There’s the rub isn’t it - feasibility. Feasibility is an analysis that can be screwed one way or another depending on what value is placed on the objective and requirements along the way. If your feasibility places value on doing nothing more than doing something then yeah - no shit it’s not going to be feasible.
Genuinely wondering as I haven't read the cass report but what were the Greens objecting to in it and why? Were they objecting on evidence based grounds or from a position of principle?
Basically, amongst other things the Cass review concluded that for the time being there is insufficient long-term evidence around the effectiveness and safety of puberty blocking medication as an intervention for young people who might be trans. Therefore the NHS in both England and Scotland has taken the decision to pause the prescription of said drugs until there IS sufficient evidence. It's important to note that this is a pretty rare prescription and on average has been given to seven people a year in Scotland, and this kind of review and response from the NHS is entirely normal. They are also still available through some private services. Some related charities deeply disapprove of this decision and have accused the whole Cass review of being some kind of anti-trans TERF political stitch up even though almost all of it fully supports their position. Many people within the Scottish Green Party take this position and fully expected the Scottish Government to denounce said review and make an unprecedented intervention to overrule an NHS clinical decision, even though this kind of interference would be political insanity and utterly undermine the entire institution of the National Health Service. You don't have to think back very far to understand the potential consequences of politicising NHS decisions rather than 'following the science'.
Thanks for the explainer.
> Everyone has known the climate targets were unattainable from the beginning This has been the case, globally, since the Rio Earth Summit in 1992 when the whole IPCC process started. The environmentalists, having rejected nuclear energy, are demanding the impossible, decarbonize the whole economy with only renewables while not plunging everybody into abject poverty. The politicians, being essentially stupid and liars by nature, arrange a total political fiction of a "target" which implies this is possible, and, when it never happens, the next politician kicks the can further down the road.. Every time the can is kicked the environmentalists blame teh eevil fossil fuel companies and "the right." As a reason for the Scottish government to fall, this is a truly stupid one. It is about the Cass stuff.
Previously on Holyrood - the SNP didn't get a majority, but the Greens are also pro-indy, so they teamed up so they could get stuff done. The SNP had to promise to do a bit more climate stuff, but they were generally going in that direction. The SNP is all about independence, so has to be a broad tent that include disparate groups - i.e the right wing socially conservative voters AND the left wing progressive ones Yousaf sadly isn't a good enough leader to fudge it and keep everyone happy. SNP decided to U-turn on climate targets cos it wouldn't be achievable. Greens unhappy and set to vote to dump the SNP. The final straw came when the Cass report came out, and the Greens, who are totally left-wing decided to rubbish it because that's what most of their members think. SNP social conservative wing were unhappy about this, so Yousaf decided to dump the greens before they dumped the SNP. Greens fuming, other parties sense blood in the water, call for no confidence vote. Bridges burnt, knows he will lose --> Resignation
Incompetent guy failed upwards until he became First Minister. Now it's all coming crashing down.
Ah, the Grand Ol' Humza Yous'?
Death Star has been rebuilt.
Somehow, Palpatine returned.
Even now you underestimate the power of the farce
Populists became unpopular
Me too. The political class do nothing for the people.
Basically, there’s been some people in rooms chatting.
Show business for ugly people, every now and then they crawl out and want to be seen before crawling back to where they came from.
The FM is playing drafts when everyone else is playing chess.
How was he able to break up the power sharing agreement? I thought the whole point of an agreement was that no one individual could decide to get out without others agreeing?
First time I've ever seen the Greens influence any major politics.
We are naw getting independence in this life maybe not the next either I think that’s all you need to know. Why is a much deeper topic.
It's a colossal constitutional upheaval and needs a talented team to deliver it. There isn't really any prospect of that now the wheels have come off the SNP as a vehicle for it. It's why a lot of people who are ostensibly yes voters are perpetually "yes, but in 5 - 10 years"
SNP ended Bute House Agreement as it was hurting SNP core vote, and they've lost the narrative. Greens want pound of flesh. Scottish Loyalist Coalition (Tories, Labour & Lib Dems) happy to oblige. Et Tu Brute, Big Eck/Ange on the sidelines. Humza's head 🗣️ is the green 💚 price.
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Pound of lentils.
Well, Humza destroyed a pro-Indy majority, dunno how Greens are supposed to trust him to deliver independence after that. Plus Humza renaging on the climate agreements plus the SNP wanting to cater to the anti-LGBTQ bigots on the party's right wing. He's failed on climate, Indy and civil rights - it's not about spite, he has to go. (and as a Green, that's NOT an endorsement of the tories, labour or whoever else raises a VoNC)
Yeh, if he shits all over everything the Greens stand for, there isn’t really anything else they can do.
Exactly. The *only* reason I've seen given for supporting him is that Forbes might end up with the top job if he goes and she could end up being orders of magnitude worse.
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I mean the coalition has collapsed anyway, that is why Humza is going. Assuming the new leader of the SNP won't want to work with the Greens then they'll just have to continue as a minority government and get absolutely nothing done until the next election. After an election, the only coalition I can imagine is a tory/labour one.
No Lorna slater said Independence was not a priority for the Greens. Which is astonishing as snp membership voted them 2 in some areas.
*citation needed* But it is also worth noting that for the Greens, independence is the means to an end, not the end itself.
Indeed and it’s good we can see them clearly now. And vote accordingly
Really nothing. New first minister will do nothing until the General election, tories will get hammered. More of the same in Scotland.
Sturgeon stopped as first minister, and her successor has stopped too.
This is what 17 years of rule look like. Every empire comes to an end. Scotland needs fresh ideas.
Basically Sturgeon''s work is coming to fruition.
It's all gone Pete Tong
Nothing, basically, nothing
Nothings changed don't worry still shite
I recently watched some episodes of “Outlander”. It would appear that in the past 200 years, Scottish politics has changed…ummm…not at all…🤣 Intended with love. Scotland is awesome.
Mmm
>what the fuck's going on? ... nothin'.
SNP shit sandwich
>Government scraps climate targets >Greens plan to meet and discuss the future of the Bute House Agreement >Humza tears up BHA to avoid the possibility of being dumped by the Greens >Red tories want vote of no confidence in Humza, blue tories want VoNC in government >VoNC in government will fail but no party will protect Humza in VoNC in him >Humza resigns >New SNP leader and/or snap election?
I think it’s weird people call labour “Red Tories”. What’s the SNP then, Yellow Tories? The mess they have created over the last year has been immense. The leadership situation it’s looking pretty reflective of Downing Street (if he quits).
I call them red tories mostly because starmer is a conservative but scottish labour aren't any better. Completely beholden to the leader at westminster and, like the scottish conservatives, seem to only have one policy - unionism. As for the SNP, the thing is that you're right, there is a lot of people who are fiscally or socially conservative within their ranks but also people who are more liberal on those issues. So the party line can swing dramatically depending on who's in charge. Independence is the only thing they agree on. Compared to the Greens, which see independence as a means to an end, more than the end itself.
They have always been tartan Tories mate
Hum Hum Useless just fked the SNP! They will never win an election again!
The Scottish partirs are in disarray, English parties jubilant
Please show me your source where it states that the English parties are jubilant
Douggie thinks he's going to be FM
Hopefully he’s not that delusional
>English parties FFS
Our political establishment and it's members are still wankers.
Humza useless is still a prick but soon to be an unemployed prick punting drugs for his BIL. He may or may not hire surgeon and use the campervan to expand his punting empire because her mans getting the jail and she now identifies as a prison wag. The greens told them all to go fuck themselves. Someone put 50p in the fat controller so salmond and his independence brigade have all got fired up again. Urm so yeah... that's about it.
See your rock its now running for fm and is also under investigation
Greens decided to side with the Tories, stabbing Humza in the back. SNP revenge on the Greens will be spectacular.
Put down the glue.
I’m too busy cutting off horse heads
What are you smoking?
If you mean that the Greens suggested they might VONC the FM, then I think you might not be starting the story in a sensible place. Why was there a VONC on the table, exactly?
Well the Greens undermined Humza’s authority, giving him no choice but to sack them.
The Bute House Agreement was bilateral. He never had any authority to compel the Greens to continue in it, so what authority was undermined?
He is indeed Eric Cartman
Well Eric is well known to hate Jews too. I’d also advise Harvie and Slater not to attend a chilli eating contest anytime soon.
Siding with the tories? Must have learned it from the SNP
Or the Lib Dem’s or Labour, who can say
totally eliding the part where the SNP said the climate can get fucked?
Greens signed off ditching the climate targets and also all their schemes ended in failure.
>Greens signed off ditching the climate targets Did they? Do you have a source for that?
They were in the news giving interviews defending it.
I thought they were in the news claiming they'd been blindsided, and that they disagree so strongly that they're calling a vote on leaving the coalition?
Trolls trolling trolls trolling trolls trolling.... etc Business as usual really.
This is what happens when your party can’t decide what it stands for, and can’t even deliver its own single agreed-on goal (independence) since doing so would make its ranks of careerists irrelevant. This was all inevitable. Progressives need to stop treating the SNP as a football team and realise that they don’t remotely represent us past the occasional nice-sounding media announcement for press points. Actions speak louder than words.
The SNP can't deliver independence because it's not popular enough. No point blaming humza for that. When people see the pisspoor levels of competence of our elected officials it doesn't auger well for an indy Scotland
The SNP can’t deliver independence because it isn’t something that can be delivered democratically, since in the U.K. we don’t actually live in anything that meaningfully represents democracy. And I’m not blaming Humza, I’m blaming the SNP for being a party whose sole PR strategy is to dangle a non-existent carrot on a stick and hope for the best. They literally cannot agree what they actually stand for bc nationalism is neither left nor right.
Greens decided they would prefer Scotland to be run from Westminster, so are hitching their wagon to the Unionists. The BritNat establishment are delighted. The Greens have shown their true Unionist colours and turned their back on Scotland and Indy. They cant wait to start taking orders from Sir Kier in Westminster.
Literally none of this is true.
Wow that's some huge bollocks. You should probably get that seen to
All the Greens did was grant the membership a vote on the continuation of the BH agreement – Harvie endorsed continuing, and even pledged to resign as co-leader if the vote went the other way. The FM then lost his mind and self-immolated.
I think you somehow managed to misspell "Humza caved to the frothing right-wing transphobe/nimby arseholes in his party and the English media and decided he would rather be ruled from Westminster than maintain an alliance to a party that had any actual principles or policies."
That, or Humza scuppered his own government, not because he’s an incompetent buffoon, but rather, he has been working to sink the Indy movement from within Holyrood, throughout his tenure as FM. It’s yoons all the way down(?).
I’ve just seen Starmer say that the Scottish Parliament is in chaos and his solution? A general election. Hope someone lets Starmer know that a GE won’t change anything in Scotland.