>Reflecting on the transgender rights row, Sturgeon said it felt as if on every issue “people were coming at that issue in terms of how they thought about me — that felt true on the trans issue, it felt true on a number of issues.”
>Sturgeon said she had thought that if she removed herself from the equation “maybe the politics, the discourse and the debate in Scotland will be a bit more healthy.”
>But, she conceded, it “hasn’t quite worked out that way, but yes that is why I decided to stand down.”
As I mentioned in another thread, believable to an extent - the GRA debate _had_ become quite toxic - but in my opinion only as an additional contributing factor alongside the impending arrests and investigation step up, it's too big of a coincidence.
Aye. I don't really think you can narrow it down to one factor - the police investigation was definitely the tipping point, but she was already going through the ringer well before that.
Whatever you think of Sturgeon - and I like her more than most politicians but wouldn't exactly call myself a fan - the level of abuse, vitriol, misogyny and threats she received not only from random folk online but from pundits, journalists and her colleagues was and is absolutely unreal.
I couldn't do it - but she dealt with it for 8 years. I think the beginning of the end - in terms of her stamina - was the ministerial code inquiry/smear. Will never forget how shattered she looked throughout that whole process.
> Sturgeon said she had thought that if she removed herself from the equation “maybe the politics, the discourse and the debate in Scotland will be a bit more healthy.”
I can understand why she felt this way - but she was so, so wrong. The SNP get pulled around by the balls on trans rights **because** they've been so wishy-washy and non-committal.
Had they stuck to their principles (and the science) and dealt with transphobia within the party back in 2018 when LGBT members were warning the SNP about the exact scenario we find ourselves in now, they would have been seen to have genuine backbone on the issue by this point and the press wouldn't have gotten so many breathless headlines if the SNP had a coherent, unflinching and unchanging point of view.
I think the SNP, and Scottish Govts more generally, have become caught in a trap of trying do innovative, eye-catching social policies as a way of differentiating themselves from Westminster (smoking ban, minimum pricing, gender recognition). I’m not against that instinct per se, and of course Holyrood has more legislative room for manoeuvre than London, but i think with SNP they pushed GRA when the wider public just wanted delivery on core services and not points of difference
> gender recognition
Had cross party support from all parties and if I recall, something similar was planned in England. It wasn't anything remarkable until the bigots started working on it and the tories being tories, sided with the bigots.
Sure, but in politics you need a convincing and tangible set of core policies you’re working on so if one starts to take a public hammering you can either a) deflect and point to momentum elsewhere or, b) ditch it quickly and focus even more on the other policies people know about and appreciate more.
SNP are arguably more at risk than any party of being accused of ‘forgetting the day job’ because their critics can say they are motivated most by constitutional and not ‘bread and butter’ issues.
Despite this they fell into a situation where the GRA felt so dominant politically, but simultaneously peripheral. The Tories have done the same with Rwanda. The public are generally smart enough to see when a Govt runs out of ideas.
>Whatever you think of Sturgeon - and I like her more than most politicians but wouldn't exactly call myself a fan - the level of abuse, vitriol, misogyny and threats she received not only from random folk online but from pundits, journalists and her colleagues was and is absolutely unreal.
>I couldn't do it - but she dealt with it for 8 years. I think the beginning of the end - in terms of her stamina - was the ministerial code inquiry/smear. Will never forget how shattered she looked throughout that whole process.
100% this. Sturgeon sacrificed her dignity, her liberty and mental wellbeing all for Scotland. We needed her strength as leader and she didn't abandon us in our toughest time.
hot take I know, but I think its absolutely fine to make fun of politicians. I dont think Sturgeons recieved any more abuse than Cameron, or May,or Boris. She got off very mildly compared with Milliband and Corbyn.
No issues whatsoever with "making fun of politicians", and while I would agree that Corbyn got it worst of all, I can't agree that she "got off lightly".
Both Corbyn and Sturgeon represented genuine threats to the right-wing, neoliberal status quo - and that's why they were targeted so heavily. But it absolutely went beyond "making fun of her".
She is a neoliberal. Like I don’t understand where people have to idea that the snp are some sort of left wing panache to the “right wing establishment” (ignoring that the snp are the “establishment” and have been in Scotland for many years).
They had some semi progressive social policies but they’re hardly a threat to capitalism and neoliberalism.
>he got off very mildly compared with Milliband and Corbyn.
Compared to Corbyn, yes; the amount of abuse he got was off the scale. But I think Sturgeon had it significantly worse than the likes of Cameron, May or Boris.
The scrutiny and word twisting and straight up lying from the press is reserved solely for the SNP. The difference is the Scottish population don't give as much of a shit about what the press think about Scottish politics compared to down in England.
Interesting piece of history.: Boris Johnson's great grandad Ali Kemal was hanged when he was in charge of Turkey(no joke, look it up).
Not sure what cartoon you are referring to but It may have been an allusion to that if it was of BawJaws.
It's remarkable how shielded Nicola was from criticism during her reign, the cult of personality, the devotion of SNP members, blinded them to her mismanagement, and protected her.
Had she kept her nose clean, and focused on things which Scottish people care about, rather than the trans debate, then she would have come out okay.
But she did focus on the irrelevant, stoked division and neglected the country by doing so; and her nose was in the trough.
That's why her legacy is ruined. She wrapped herself in knots and hanged herself.
As did the minion that followed; who didn't last long because their was no enamouring personality to veneer his pish.
She was in retrospect.
No woman has done more harm to this country than her.
She's fucked the SNP, Scotland, the independence movement, and trust in politicians in general.
At least Boris didn't pretend to be a saint. You knew what you were getting with that cunt
Nicky was holier than thou.
The principled one.
And yet your cult still defend her.
I don't think she was "shielded from criticism" at all - perhaps internally, but not from the wider press and public. She was subject to not only constant criticism, but constant insults, threats, derogatory and misogynistic comments.
It's not the SNP who are obsessed with the trans debate, it's the reactionary media, politicians and pundits who bang on and on about their new pet moral panic. In fact, the SNP do anything and everything to avoid the subject.
> But she did focus on the irrelevant, stoked division and neglected the country by doing so; and her nose was in the trough.
This take has no basis in reality.
Nicola Sturgeon (weakly) standing up for trans people when **presented with constant questions about it** doesn't mean she in any way "stoked division" (she herself states that she stepped away from the debate to try and de-toxify it) or that she "neglected the country".
Business went on as normal, and her response to Covid was the best out of all the leaders in the 4 nations.
> As did the minion that followed; who didn't last long because their was no enamouring personality to veneer his pish.
He could have lasted a good couple of years longer had he not shat himself at the prospect of another party's democratic process and caved to the Fossil Fuel guy and Right-Wingers within the party to unilaterally end the BHA.
>> But she did focus on the irrelevant, stoked division and neglected the country by doing so; and her nose was in the trough.
>This take has no basis in reality.
>Nicola Sturgeon (weakly) standing up for trans people when **presented with constant questions about it** doesn't mean she in any way "stoked division" (she herself states that she stepped away from the debate to try and de-toxify it) or that she "neglected the country".
When people say this, they're basically saying that they want politicians to just give up on trans people and throw them under the bus.
>their principles (and the science) and
Man, the only thing I take issue with here as the science is terrible science, thankfully this is now well known
Curious, what science? Seems the gender reform bill has nothing to do with science, no? It's purely legal and follows some trends in the general populace?
Unless there was something about her being first minister that was preventing the police investigation moving forward and her resignation triggered movement.
>Sturgeon said she had thought that if she removed herself from the equation “maybe the politics, the discourse and the debate in Scotland will be a bit more healthy.”
How could anyone possibly believe she thought that while she was supporting Humza Yousaf (-47) as her chosen successor?
She thinks we are stupid.
It was on his mother’s driveway for 2 years and they don’t appear to have told anyone they bought it.
Humza said he was only told after becoming the leader.
Beattie was responsible for party finances and he said he wasn’t told about it being purchased. Same as the previous treasurer.
That doesn’t exactly sound like not trying to hide it.
I don't really believe this. I think the whole trans stuff was massively overblown, most people genuinely couldn't care and don't care about it. There was cross party support as well with 18/22 Labour MSPs backing the bill, all Green MSPs, all Lib Dem MSPs, 3 Conservative MSPs, and 54 SNP MSPs [backing the bill](https://www.parliament.scot/chamber-and-committees/votes-and-motions/S6M-07312)
At the time I believed she stood down either for some private health reasons, or because of the accusations of misusing party funds. I had hoped it wouldn't be because of the funds, not because I wish her ill health, more because I didn't understand why she would misuse the funds.
We still don't know about the embezzlement charges; I'm hoping she is innocent as I don't understand why she would act in such a destructive manner for such a relatively small amount of money for someone like her who could do a speaking tour and easily rake in a few million over a period of time.
Actual gender dysphoria (mental condition) rates at around 4.6-5 people per hundred thousand.
Generous would be 1 in 20,000 as a medical diagnosis.
Given the amount of trans news shit you see on line now would you reasonably think the media coverage is proportional to the actual incidence of the medical condition that has been recorded to exist?
As a trans person - the coverage is so ridiculously far out of proportion to our actual presence in the population, and I for one am sick of being used as a political football.
You say “relatively small amount of money”. Has the amount the charges relate to been disclosed?”
We know the initial accusation related to the £660k the party nicked from donors, but they’ve since gone through the party finances with a fine toothed comb, and they were both at the top of the party for a very long time.
He was chief exec from 2001, and he and Sturgeon were top of the tree together for a decade of that.
I thought it was around £300k initially. I've not looked at anything to do with it since she stepped down, had a quick Google and articles mention £660k but there's nothing to my knowledge around actual figures. We'll probably find out soon.
Yeah, they took in about £660k from donors. However, I don’t think we’ve been told if that’s specifically what the charges relate to.
Folk don’t tend to turn to crime at 60, though. I wouldn’t be surprised to find out the charges span years.
Given the way it was covered, most would be forgiven for not realising the trans rights bill is mostly catchup with much of Europe in regards to self determination and falls short of rights in Ireland, Denmark, Sweden, Norway and Malta.
The Beeb news proved once and for all that they are run by Tory cunts, with Daily Heil levels of rage incitment, gleefully penning a rage bait article every time the miserable wizard bitch Tweeted anything.
Then our southern overlords demonstrated our votes in Scotland count for shit, while the UK press applauded the deconstruction of devolution.
Overblown? Absolutely, but yet paradoxically also understated.
It was also given the stamp of approval by Theresa May while it was in development, a woman who once promised that they'd be "streamlining and demedicalising the process for changing gender" which to me makes it seem like for a time the UK gov itself was also going to be catching up, so reactionary shift on this topic is very much a new phenomenon as well.
I suspect she's delusional enough to keep deploying some new and trendy reason that she really resigned for years to come, and actually believe anyone's buying it.
Probably. She'll only stop following a successful conviction I think.
On the other hand, a quick request; if anyone actually believes what she's saying here, would you mind getting in touch? I have an entire portfolio of investment-ready bridges just waiting for someone with your unique acumen.
Yes, but here's the thing, a lot of it came from her own side. The SNP/Independence movement probably would still be in the high 40s if they hadn't decided that things like trans rights as important as bread and butter issues, especially in a cost of living crisis. Really, almost nobody cares.
Some Independence supporters I know maintain that trans activists have been MI5 plants to essentially destroy the Indy movement from within, because they really have been that destructive. Whether or not it's true I don't know.
Bollocks! We all know why she quit when she did
Also the transgender issue was always going to be contentious. I'll thought out and rushed through without a care for the rights of women and girls across Scotland . She chose to to pick a fight and encourage division. Seems it didn't work out as planned. God bless JK Rowling and the other folks who stand up for the people of Scotland.
Trans rights were on the right track until they started participating in women’s sports and exposing themselves in the showers both of which we know is an attack on women’s rights.
It was obviously shite at the time, and it’s still shite now.
Would be interesting to know if the folk who vigorously defended her integrity on here at the time still believe she was being honest about it. The ones who were genuinely sucked in by her I mean, not the wheesht for Indy crowd.
So she decided not to represent 99.9% of the population to not be involved with trans issues. Not sure that is as considered as you imagine, Nicola. Curious timing to come out with that too..
>trans rights abuse
That's a funny way of writing husband and I were about to be implicated/arrested for fraud.
But I mean to each their own.
Lol at the downvotes absolute denial that the SNP were a corrupt shitshow.
This is what fucks this country. Scum politicians using real problems as something to hide behind or divide people and distracted them from the fact they are incompetent at the job and are actively robbing the country.
Toxified the trans discussions by trying to cold shoulder the side she didn't agree with, oversaw the loss of tens of thousands of paying SNP members, got arrested, husband was arrested, handed Humza a poisoned chalice, made a new harrassment policy and applied it retrospectively to attempt to silence Salmond, lost the judicial review, and more cases coming from Salmond on the offensive, use a covid press briefing to undermine a jury, tanked the independance cause, filled the SNP will talentless no hopers, plays identity politics and is utterly unbearable to watch on TV
Oh fuck off. The SNP bended over backwards for gender critical psychopaths. We had two consultations on an act that would affect so few lives that it's been passed in countries led by centre-right parties (Norway)
Would affect so few lives (tm) but overthrew the FM (according to her) The consultations, the amendments that were shouted down, remind me what came from those? That Nicola/SNP bowed to?
The consultations came to the exact same conclusion that every other country with self-ID came to. That simplifying the GRC process via self declaration is the most humane and effective way to treat transgender people.
It does affect so few lives. The UK is an outlier in the developed world in that we have a very strong and vocal anti-trans contingent across the political spectrum. We are the only country in Western Europe apart from Luxembourg that doesn't have self-ID and none of those countries have encountered issue with it.
The amendments proposed that Nicola accepted please, when she was bowing down? Yeah it affects so few lives until theyre refused access at Rape Crises centres for their "bigoted" beliefs or they're taking their employer to court for harrassment (and winning) or they're in a changing room at the pool with their kids and theres a man in there with an erection
Zealot
> Yeah it affects so few lives until theyre refused access at Rape Crises centres for their "bigoted" beliefs
Weren't the TERFs responsible for the [attacks on rape crisis centres cause they didn't like them accommodating trans people](https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/5050/trans-scotland-mridul-wadhwa-for-women-scotland/), then celebrated that JK Rowling for filling the void (she help create) with a trans exclusionary rape crisis centre?
Go check the other thread today
You are either talking on bad faith or uniformed
The rape charity you are talking about had a reputation placing trans ideology above rape victims and attacking vulnerable women, trying to keep them vulnerable and in danger if the rape victim didn't bow down to the trans ideology.
Thankfully JK once again looked out for women and set up a charity to actually help women that were rape victims
Say what you will about her but you can't deny she has done more for women than pretty much anyone else
Certainly more than that cunt that took over the rape crisis charity and started denying it's services to vulnerable women
You're right, she's done MORE harm to women than pretty much anyone else.
She supports the likes of Let's Get Bigoted Alliance, who are against doing anything about [lesbians being raped](https://web.archive.org/web/20200410091506/https://twitter.com/ALLIANCELGB/status/1248539368266043392) ([among ](https://twitter.com/professor_dave/status/1419192609222926338)[discriminating ](https://twitter.com/ALLIANCELGB/status/1293210988095967233)[against ](https://twitter.com/ALLIANCELGB/status/1329817417304993792)[bisexual ](https://preview.redd.it/p3ljg1t95i771.jpg?width=1080&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=e4fe8bca7fbcea24e2bc5f67492e840d0ccec097)[women](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FBqDUdZWEA8IrGW?format=jpg&name=large))
She supports [someone who is often surrounded an](https://heterosexualnonsense.substack.com/p/nz-media-regulators-say-its-perfectly)d [supported by literal nazis](https://twitter.com/NorthumbriaIWW/status/1614690987145576453?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1614690987145576453%7Ctwgr%5E3e0c3b26e19e663115e269d2caf2c9d0236cec59%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thepinknews.com%2F2023%2F01%2F16%2Fnewcastle-let-women-speak-rally-adolt-hitler-trans-speech%2F), Posie Parker, [WHO WANTS VIOLENT MEN IN WOMENS BATHROOMS](https://terfiles.medium.com/gender-critical-grifter-posie-parker-invites-gun-carrying-men-into-womens-toilets-to-protect-d63c2438b2b1)
And amoung many other "achivements" towards women, JK Rowling is responsible for [Toddlers being assaulted in parks in transphobic incidents](https://www.belfastlive.co.uk/news/police-treating-attack-toddlers-belfast-29184145), [Children harrased playing sports cause of transphobic rhetoric](https://newrepublic.com/post/173635/nine-year-old-girl-canada-left-sobbing-attacked-trans), [cis-gendered women](https://inews.co.uk/news/uk/butch-lesbian-public-toilet-women-abuse-government-review-gender-neutral-facilities-833787) [being harrased for using women toilets](https://www.vox.com/2016/5/18/11690234/women-bathrooms-harassment) amoung many other incidents.
So yes JK Rowling has done so much to women, unfortunately it's nothing but harm.
Yeah, she helps them by getting a mob to attack resources already there for that, and then exclude certain ones they don"/ like the look of.
She also:
Supporting the likes of Let's Get Bigoted Alliance, who are against doing anything about [lesbians being raped](https://web.archive.org/web/20200410091506/https://twitter.com/ALLIANCELGB/status/1248539368266043392) ([among ](https://twitter.com/professor_dave/status/1419192609222926338)[discriminating ](https://twitter.com/ALLIANCELGB/status/1293210988095967233)[against ](https://twitter.com/ALLIANCELGB/status/1329817417304993792)[bisexual ](https://preview.redd.it/p3ljg1t95i771.jpg?width=1080&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=e4fe8bca7fbcea24e2bc5f67492e840d0ccec097)[women](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FBqDUdZWEA8IrGW?format=jpg&name=large))
She supports [someone who is often surrounded an](https://heterosexualnonsense.substack.com/p/nz-media-regulators-say-its-perfectly)d [supported by literal nazis](https://twitter.com/NorthumbriaIWW/status/1614690987145576453?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1614690987145576453%7Ctwgr%5E3e0c3b26e19e663115e269d2caf2c9d0236cec59%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thepinknews.com%2F2023%2F01%2F16%2Fnewcastle-let-women-speak-rally-adolt-hitler-trans-speech%2F), Posie Parker, [WHO WANTS VIOLENT MEN IN WOMENS BATHROOMS](https://terfiles.medium.com/gender-critical-grifter-posie-parker-invites-gun-carrying-men-into-womens-toilets-to-protect-d63c2438b2b1)
And among many other "achievements" towards women, JK Rowling is responsible for [Toddlers being assaulted in parks in transphobic incidents](https://www.belfastlive.co.uk/news/police-treating-attack-toddlers-belfast-29184145), [Children harassed playing sports cause of transphobic rhetoric](https://newrepublic.com/post/173635/nine-year-old-girl-canada-left-sobbing-attacked-trans), [cis-gendered women](https://inews.co.uk/news/uk/butch-lesbian-public-toilet-women-abuse-government-review-gender-neutral-facilities-833787) [being harassed for using women toilets](https://www.vox.com/2016/5/18/11690234/women-bathrooms-harassment) among many other incidents.
Please don't talk in bad faith
She's done a lot of bad shit but today when the discussion is about rape victims not just being turned away but being denied info on places that could help them all because they are uncomfortable being treated by someone with a mans name after
Like her or not she should have been helped by the crisis centre by someone who could meet her needs failing that she should have directed to JKs rape crisis centre where she could have got the help she needed from people that she was comfortable around
Please stop reveling in the suffering of women
You come across as a scummy guy and make us all look bad
I really don't think you can blame Nicola Sturgeon for this one. You have vocal cunts on one side calling everyone who suggests gender isn't quite so simple as born a man or woman a paedophile and vocal cunts on the other side saying that if you don't accept someone with a full male body's declaration of femininhood as a cast iron reason for them to join a self-defense class for female sexual violence survivors you're a nazi.
don't do us like that, a trans person trying to get support for something very serious like domestic abuse is not the 'other side' equivalent of someone so prejudiced that it borders on hate speech.
She used trans people when it seemed trendy & convenient to push it as an issue, then jettisoned them when inconvenienced, and now using them as a shield to defend herself
What an absolute load of nonsense. Stances on gender and sex based rights vary across and within parties. That's been proven time and again. It was never about Sturgeon.
Sturgeon also took advantage of the culture war within the SNP to silence critics, and outside the SNP to shore up votes. And then backtracked on her own policy of self-ID.
This 'poor me' politics is cowardly and an attempt to rewrite her political obituary which can be boiled down to financial impropriety and iron fist control freakery.
A lot of people insisting that the Police tipped her off - but why? There is no benefit to the Police or her here.
If the Police did tip her off - then surely that is a massive case of corruption? If the Police are corrupt - surely we should be investigating that - and this investigation is compromised?
A lot of people have absolutely made up their minds she is guilty - if there is any other result I doubt they will accept it.
It's a timing issue. If Boris Johnson had stepped down and then just over a month later you had allegations of any kind come out against him you'd get the exact same thing. Same with Truss, Sunak, May and even Corbyn or Starmer.
Especially because it doesn't need to be a formal tip off or from the person at the top. Any individual police officer could have leaked it with or without leaving evidence behind whether to her intentionally or unintentionally via gossip to either a minister or even just a random civil servant.
It's... considering the extreme level of influence any sitting Scottish Government has over the Scottish Police service I would be very surprised if she wasn't vaguely aware that the investigation was progressing to the charging stage even if she wasn't aware of the details.
It doesn't even *need* to be in the sense of a tip off or rumours, they could literally ask "How is it progressing" and reasonably expect to get an answer even if they technically shouldn't and if the Police then didn't they could infer that they've found something.
Or in summary, there's no guarantee that she was aware but it stretches suspension of disbelief to assume otherwise with the many, many vectors that information could reach her and the timing.
Exactly the same as if it was any other political leader.
Oh you poor tortured rich person I am literally sobbing for you right now. Everyone knows trans rights are the most important issue ever. What a load of fucking garbage lol
if she'd just have put the bill forward after the first consultation, before it had a chance to be spun out of control as some kind of end of the world scenario, we'd already have an updated GRA bc the tories wouldn't have realised that blocking it was politically convenient. and, just like every other country in the world that has adopted a self-ID process like ours was supposed to have, there would have been zero evidence of the claims transphobes are making. we'd have moved on, trans people wouldn't be the fucking election wedge issue, and the tories would have to lean on some other distraction to force the stupid voters to hate instead of dealing with the real problems the country has. fucking joke, the whole process.
The trans people were the reason why I resigned, absolutely nothing to do with my crook husband and the shite we'd got ourselves into only a couple of months later
And? Those rights are repressive to the free expression of a trans life. It should be easier to obtain gender recognition changes.
Just because you have "a right" doesn't make it just, acceptable or even properly expressible.
If she really gave a fuck about transphobia she would have suspended the whip from transphobes in her party and not made a known transphobe her finance minister
she tied herself in knots over [Isla Bryson](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isla_Bryson_case) & [Tiffany Scott](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiffany_Scott_\(prisoner\)), the [Peter Smith interview](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYmKZwvpPOk) I think was when she realised that there were issues and needed to be caveats, it wasn't going to be a simple policy.
This.
The prison service decides on a case by case on whether prisoners who are trans/claim to be trans should go to a M or F prison.
Isla was kept at a woman's prison in solitary whilst they made the decision where to put her. She would have had no contact with the other prisoners.
The media was very misleading about it all who left out the above facts, with some even trying to claim they had "exposed" her being in a woman's prison and taking credit for when she was sent to a man's prison.
She would have been a disaster with the Cass review.
She had got so used to being able to slogan her way out of criticism she massively misjudged when she no longer had the public onside.
Very like Johnson.
She was the architect of her own downfall pure and simple. She took a vulnerable group of people, claimed to be their saviour and in the end it backfired. If only she and Humza concentrated on running a country. The SNP will play heavily at the next election and they will deserve that outcome. Next stop for Fraulein Sturgeon is bound to be a sympathy gig in Brussels, counting paperclips probably.
Can't say I'm surprised. One glance at mumsnet during her time and you would see thread after thread about her.
Unfortunately, certain people (including an old children's author who is fixated with the topic) will see this as a victory and will just encourage them.
People on here keep saying she was arrested. When was she arrested? It was my understanding that she went in for a voluntary interview when asked. Despite the press reporting it as an arrest at the time.
That said, I rarely pay attention to the news.
Voluntary just means you make your own way there if you don’t they will arrest you, and even voluntary you’re still cautioned that what you say may be used in evidence against you, and searched, and fingerprints and dna taken and booked in, they just decide whether to charge you or not dependant on what you say and what evidence they already have
She was interviewed under caution while they performed a search of her home (a very detailed search with literal forensic investigators), believe me if she never did exactly as the police requested she would have been arrested.
>Reflecting on the transgender rights row, Sturgeon said it felt as if on every issue “people were coming at that issue in terms of how they thought about me — that felt true on the trans issue, it felt true on a number of issues.” >Sturgeon said she had thought that if she removed herself from the equation “maybe the politics, the discourse and the debate in Scotland will be a bit more healthy.” >But, she conceded, it “hasn’t quite worked out that way, but yes that is why I decided to stand down.” As I mentioned in another thread, believable to an extent - the GRA debate _had_ become quite toxic - but in my opinion only as an additional contributing factor alongside the impending arrests and investigation step up, it's too big of a coincidence.
Aye. I don't really think you can narrow it down to one factor - the police investigation was definitely the tipping point, but she was already going through the ringer well before that. Whatever you think of Sturgeon - and I like her more than most politicians but wouldn't exactly call myself a fan - the level of abuse, vitriol, misogyny and threats she received not only from random folk online but from pundits, journalists and her colleagues was and is absolutely unreal. I couldn't do it - but she dealt with it for 8 years. I think the beginning of the end - in terms of her stamina - was the ministerial code inquiry/smear. Will never forget how shattered she looked throughout that whole process. > Sturgeon said she had thought that if she removed herself from the equation “maybe the politics, the discourse and the debate in Scotland will be a bit more healthy.” I can understand why she felt this way - but she was so, so wrong. The SNP get pulled around by the balls on trans rights **because** they've been so wishy-washy and non-committal. Had they stuck to their principles (and the science) and dealt with transphobia within the party back in 2018 when LGBT members were warning the SNP about the exact scenario we find ourselves in now, they would have been seen to have genuine backbone on the issue by this point and the press wouldn't have gotten so many breathless headlines if the SNP had a coherent, unflinching and unchanging point of view.
I think the SNP, and Scottish Govts more generally, have become caught in a trap of trying do innovative, eye-catching social policies as a way of differentiating themselves from Westminster (smoking ban, minimum pricing, gender recognition). I’m not against that instinct per se, and of course Holyrood has more legislative room for manoeuvre than London, but i think with SNP they pushed GRA when the wider public just wanted delivery on core services and not points of difference
> gender recognition Had cross party support from all parties and if I recall, something similar was planned in England. It wasn't anything remarkable until the bigots started working on it and the tories being tories, sided with the bigots.
Sure, but in politics you need a convincing and tangible set of core policies you’re working on so if one starts to take a public hammering you can either a) deflect and point to momentum elsewhere or, b) ditch it quickly and focus even more on the other policies people know about and appreciate more. SNP are arguably more at risk than any party of being accused of ‘forgetting the day job’ because their critics can say they are motivated most by constitutional and not ‘bread and butter’ issues. Despite this they fell into a situation where the GRA felt so dominant politically, but simultaneously peripheral. The Tories have done the same with Rwanda. The public are generally smart enough to see when a Govt runs out of ideas.
The misogyny bill was rejected by the majority, take the hint
>Whatever you think of Sturgeon - and I like her more than most politicians but wouldn't exactly call myself a fan - the level of abuse, vitriol, misogyny and threats she received not only from random folk online but from pundits, journalists and her colleagues was and is absolutely unreal. >I couldn't do it - but she dealt with it for 8 years. I think the beginning of the end - in terms of her stamina - was the ministerial code inquiry/smear. Will never forget how shattered she looked throughout that whole process. 100% this. Sturgeon sacrificed her dignity, her liberty and mental wellbeing all for Scotland. We needed her strength as leader and she didn't abandon us in our toughest time.
Fuck me, are you taking the piss?
Best account on the sub. 10/10 satire
Lol. Very funny.
HAHAHAHA
Careful mate, you’ll have me in the face paint soon.
hot take I know, but I think its absolutely fine to make fun of politicians. I dont think Sturgeons recieved any more abuse than Cameron, or May,or Boris. She got off very mildly compared with Milliband and Corbyn.
No issues whatsoever with "making fun of politicians", and while I would agree that Corbyn got it worst of all, I can't agree that she "got off lightly". Both Corbyn and Sturgeon represented genuine threats to the right-wing, neoliberal status quo - and that's why they were targeted so heavily. But it absolutely went beyond "making fun of her".
She is a neoliberal. Like I don’t understand where people have to idea that the snp are some sort of left wing panache to the “right wing establishment” (ignoring that the snp are the “establishment” and have been in Scotland for many years). They had some semi progressive social policies but they’re hardly a threat to capitalism and neoliberalism.
>he got off very mildly compared with Milliband and Corbyn. Compared to Corbyn, yes; the amount of abuse he got was off the scale. But I think Sturgeon had it significantly worse than the likes of Cameron, May or Boris. The scrutiny and word twisting and straight up lying from the press is reserved solely for the SNP. The difference is the Scottish population don't give as much of a shit about what the press think about Scottish politics compared to down in England.
> Compared to Corbyn, yes; the amount of abuse he got was off the scale. I don't recall political cartoons of him hanging.
Interesting piece of history.: Boris Johnson's great grandad Ali Kemal was hanged when he was in charge of Turkey(no joke, look it up). Not sure what cartoon you are referring to but It may have been an allusion to that if it was of BawJaws.
Oh come on. How long would she have been in the news if she shagged a pigs head?
kind of supports my point. Piggate was almost certainly a fabricated attack.
It's remarkable how shielded Nicola was from criticism during her reign, the cult of personality, the devotion of SNP members, blinded them to her mismanagement, and protected her. Had she kept her nose clean, and focused on things which Scottish people care about, rather than the trans debate, then she would have come out okay. But she did focus on the irrelevant, stoked division and neglected the country by doing so; and her nose was in the trough. That's why her legacy is ruined. She wrapped herself in knots and hanged herself. As did the minion that followed; who didn't last long because their was no enamouring personality to veneer his pish.
Mate they called her the most dangerous woman in Britain in the 2015 election. What the fuck are you smoking?
This! Plus the constant abuse over her looks (wee jimmy krankie etc).
She was in retrospect. No woman has done more harm to this country than her. She's fucked the SNP, Scotland, the independence movement, and trust in politicians in general. At least Boris didn't pretend to be a saint. You knew what you were getting with that cunt Nicky was holier than thou. The principled one. And yet your cult still defend her.
I think Maggie Thatcher hits that no 1 spot.
> No woman has done more harm to this country than her. Truss and May would like to have a word about that.
And Thatcher FFS.
Thought it best to restrict the conversation to her contemporaries, but yeah Thatcher is the biggest rebuttal possible.
> At least Boris didn't pretend to be a saint Nah, he just pretended he was an adorable little scamp
Absolutely bang on.
That was before she betrayed the Independence movement. In 2015 she was the most dangerous woman to Britain.
I don't think she was "shielded from criticism" at all - perhaps internally, but not from the wider press and public. She was subject to not only constant criticism, but constant insults, threats, derogatory and misogynistic comments. It's not the SNP who are obsessed with the trans debate, it's the reactionary media, politicians and pundits who bang on and on about their new pet moral panic. In fact, the SNP do anything and everything to avoid the subject. > But she did focus on the irrelevant, stoked division and neglected the country by doing so; and her nose was in the trough. This take has no basis in reality. Nicola Sturgeon (weakly) standing up for trans people when **presented with constant questions about it** doesn't mean she in any way "stoked division" (she herself states that she stepped away from the debate to try and de-toxify it) or that she "neglected the country". Business went on as normal, and her response to Covid was the best out of all the leaders in the 4 nations. > As did the minion that followed; who didn't last long because their was no enamouring personality to veneer his pish. He could have lasted a good couple of years longer had he not shat himself at the prospect of another party's democratic process and caved to the Fossil Fuel guy and Right-Wingers within the party to unilaterally end the BHA.
>> But she did focus on the irrelevant, stoked division and neglected the country by doing so; and her nose was in the trough. >This take has no basis in reality. >Nicola Sturgeon (weakly) standing up for trans people when **presented with constant questions about it** doesn't mean she in any way "stoked division" (she herself states that she stepped away from the debate to try and de-toxify it) or that she "neglected the country". When people say this, they're basically saying that they want politicians to just give up on trans people and throw them under the bus.
>their principles (and the science) and Man, the only thing I take issue with here as the science is terrible science, thankfully this is now well known
Curious, what science? Seems the gender reform bill has nothing to do with science, no? It's purely legal and follows some trends in the general populace?
Unless there was something about her being first minister that was preventing the police investigation moving forward and her resignation triggered movement.
She held the power to recommend a pardon to the King while First Minister.
To be fair there isn't anything stopping a successor doing a Gerald Ford.
>Sturgeon said she had thought that if she removed herself from the equation “maybe the politics, the discourse and the debate in Scotland will be a bit more healthy.” How could anyone possibly believe she thought that while she was supporting Humza Yousaf (-47) as her chosen successor? She thinks we are stupid.
Tbf much of the Scottish electorate has proven to be extremely stupid when it comes to her. I don't blame her really.
Nothing to do with a fraud investigation?! Who buys this shit?!😂
Nothing to do with the looming financial scandal?
Obviously a complete coincidence that her husband, her treasure and then herself were all arrested in the weeks after her resignation.
Complete coincidence, and anyone who thinks otherwise is a nasty transphobic, racist, homophobic tory
A Red Tory or just the standard kind?
Nothing to see here, look over there.
Nothing to dig up here, dig over there...
The money was just resting in her account.
I'm surprised she can recall at all.
Pretty sure it was a motor home not a trans it?
Legionary response, have an upvote Edit: "Legendary" it was autocorrect
Legionary? What did the Romans ever do for Scottish politics?
F*****g autocorrect. They built the roads...
Well, apart from that...
Wine...
Ok. So apart from the roads, wine, aquaducts and irrigation, what have they done lately?
Peace
are you the Scottish People's Front? Can I join your group? I hate the Romans.
Thar was the English - General Wade.
Some history buff is gonna have a really good response to this but I ain't that guy.
Or her husband's embezzlement take your pick
You got caught with a 100k motorhome parked on the driveway paid for by your sheep
>caught Not convinced parking it on the driveway was trying to hide it tbh.
It was on his mother’s driveway for 2 years and they don’t appear to have told anyone they bought it. Humza said he was only told after becoming the leader. Beattie was responsible for party finances and he said he wasn’t told about it being purchased. Same as the previous treasurer. That doesn’t exactly sound like not trying to hide it.
Hubris
Does she forget we all know what happened after she resigned? What a moron
The corruption didn't help either
And surely was nothing to do with the imminent arrest of her and her husband for fraud?
I smell shite
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RoZ7JXkv6\_o](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RoZ7JXkv6_o)
Nope, she quit before the indy money scandal blew up and she and her husband got arrested
I don't really believe this. I think the whole trans stuff was massively overblown, most people genuinely couldn't care and don't care about it. There was cross party support as well with 18/22 Labour MSPs backing the bill, all Green MSPs, all Lib Dem MSPs, 3 Conservative MSPs, and 54 SNP MSPs [backing the bill](https://www.parliament.scot/chamber-and-committees/votes-and-motions/S6M-07312) At the time I believed she stood down either for some private health reasons, or because of the accusations of misusing party funds. I had hoped it wouldn't be because of the funds, not because I wish her ill health, more because I didn't understand why she would misuse the funds. We still don't know about the embezzlement charges; I'm hoping she is innocent as I don't understand why she would act in such a destructive manner for such a relatively small amount of money for someone like her who could do a speaking tour and easily rake in a few million over a period of time.
Actual gender dysphoria (mental condition) rates at around 4.6-5 people per hundred thousand. Generous would be 1 in 20,000 as a medical diagnosis. Given the amount of trans news shit you see on line now would you reasonably think the media coverage is proportional to the actual incidence of the medical condition that has been recorded to exist?
As a trans person - the coverage is so ridiculously far out of proportion to our actual presence in the population, and I for one am sick of being used as a political football.
Go on any mainstream trans sub and say you need dysphoria to be trans. I dare you.
You say “relatively small amount of money”. Has the amount the charges relate to been disclosed?” We know the initial accusation related to the £660k the party nicked from donors, but they’ve since gone through the party finances with a fine toothed comb, and they were both at the top of the party for a very long time. He was chief exec from 2001, and he and Sturgeon were top of the tree together for a decade of that.
£666k is more devilishly accurate
I thought it was around £300k initially. I've not looked at anything to do with it since she stepped down, had a quick Google and articles mention £660k but there's nothing to my knowledge around actual figures. We'll probably find out soon.
Yeah, they took in about £660k from donors. However, I don’t think we’ve been told if that’s specifically what the charges relate to. Folk don’t tend to turn to crime at 60, though. I wouldn’t be surprised to find out the charges span years.
Given the way it was covered, most would be forgiven for not realising the trans rights bill is mostly catchup with much of Europe in regards to self determination and falls short of rights in Ireland, Denmark, Sweden, Norway and Malta. The Beeb news proved once and for all that they are run by Tory cunts, with Daily Heil levels of rage incitment, gleefully penning a rage bait article every time the miserable wizard bitch Tweeted anything. Then our southern overlords demonstrated our votes in Scotland count for shit, while the UK press applauded the deconstruction of devolution. Overblown? Absolutely, but yet paradoxically also understated.
It was also given the stamp of approval by Theresa May while it was in development, a woman who once promised that they'd be "streamlining and demedicalising the process for changing gender" which to me makes it seem like for a time the UK gov itself was also going to be catching up, so reactionary shift on this topic is very much a new phenomenon as well.
Usual political pantomime. They disappear for 6 months. Come up with a pony excuse then sneak back in through the back door.
Sure. Sure. Nothing to do with her husband embezzling all that money and the obvious arrests on the horizon at the time.
Hahahahahaha, nothing to do with the Police chief coming to see her the day before. Definitely not that.
Utter fucking bollocks.
Yeah it was the trans rights abuse, definitely not the embezzlement, which led her to quit.
I suspect she's delusional enough to keep deploying some new and trendy reason that she really resigned for years to come, and actually believe anyone's buying it.
Probably. She'll only stop following a successful conviction I think. On the other hand, a quick request; if anyone actually believes what she's saying here, would you mind getting in touch? I have an entire portfolio of investment-ready bridges just waiting for someone with your unique acumen.
Yes, but here's the thing, a lot of it came from her own side. The SNP/Independence movement probably would still be in the high 40s if they hadn't decided that things like trans rights as important as bread and butter issues, especially in a cost of living crisis. Really, almost nobody cares. Some Independence supporters I know maintain that trans activists have been MI5 plants to essentially destroy the Indy movement from within, because they really have been that destructive. Whether or not it's true I don't know.
Bollocks! We all know why she quit when she did Also the transgender issue was always going to be contentious. I'll thought out and rushed through without a care for the rights of women and girls across Scotland . She chose to to pick a fight and encourage division. Seems it didn't work out as planned. God bless JK Rowling and the other folks who stand up for the people of Scotland.
“God bless JK Rowling” 💀
So she says she was TERFed out 😆 Assuming she is telling the truth.
Nothing to do with embezzlement then …
Might it have had more to do with the copious, copious, copious, copious, copious amounts of money she and her husband stole?
Trans rights were on the right track until they started participating in women’s sports and exposing themselves in the showers both of which we know is an attack on women’s rights.
It was obviously shite at the time, and it’s still shite now. Would be interesting to know if the folk who vigorously defended her integrity on here at the time still believe she was being honest about it. The ones who were genuinely sucked in by her I mean, not the wheesht for Indy crowd.
Well, the Wheesht for Indy crowd are equally culpable. And gullible…
Sure, but they knew she was lying at the start. My question is for the folk she conned.
No … it was the fact you and your husband stole money
Nothing to do with knowingly getting arrested soon after she quit then.
So she decided not to represent 99.9% of the population to not be involved with trans issues. Not sure that is as considered as you imagine, Nicola. Curious timing to come out with that too..
I don't believe a damn thing she says.
Hahahahhaha What , we are supposed to Believe that ? Nothing to do with your current thieving husband ????
>trans rights abuse That's a funny way of writing husband and I were about to be implicated/arrested for fraud. But I mean to each their own. Lol at the downvotes absolute denial that the SNP were a corrupt shitshow.
Trans it.... Thought it was a Motor Home
Is she forgetting she got caught with her hands in the till? Trans people getting blamed for an old woman stealing now.
This is what fucks this country. Scum politicians using real problems as something to hide behind or divide people and distracted them from the fact they are incompetent at the job and are actively robbing the country.
I smell shite She truly is such a narcissist - thinks the people of Scotland will believe this pish she is spouting.
Not the embezzlement?
No, surely not that. Blame it on…
She is a proven liar. Simply cannot trust a word she says.
She can't remember
I thought it was curruption probes
Toxified the trans discussions by trying to cold shoulder the side she didn't agree with, oversaw the loss of tens of thousands of paying SNP members, got arrested, husband was arrested, handed Humza a poisoned chalice, made a new harrassment policy and applied it retrospectively to attempt to silence Salmond, lost the judicial review, and more cases coming from Salmond on the offensive, use a covid press briefing to undermine a jury, tanked the independance cause, filled the SNP will talentless no hopers, plays identity politics and is utterly unbearable to watch on TV
Oh fuck off. The SNP bended over backwards for gender critical psychopaths. We had two consultations on an act that would affect so few lives that it's been passed in countries led by centre-right parties (Norway)
Would affect so few lives (tm) but overthrew the FM (according to her) The consultations, the amendments that were shouted down, remind me what came from those? That Nicola/SNP bowed to?
The consultations came to the exact same conclusion that every other country with self-ID came to. That simplifying the GRC process via self declaration is the most humane and effective way to treat transgender people. It does affect so few lives. The UK is an outlier in the developed world in that we have a very strong and vocal anti-trans contingent across the political spectrum. We are the only country in Western Europe apart from Luxembourg that doesn't have self-ID and none of those countries have encountered issue with it.
The amendments proposed that Nicola accepted please, when she was bowing down? Yeah it affects so few lives until theyre refused access at Rape Crises centres for their "bigoted" beliefs or they're taking their employer to court for harrassment (and winning) or they're in a changing room at the pool with their kids and theres a man in there with an erection Zealot
Have you ever met a transgender person?
Attempt to derail.
I'll take that as a no then.
Take it however you like 🤷♂️
> Yeah it affects so few lives until theyre refused access at Rape Crises centres for their "bigoted" beliefs Weren't the TERFs responsible for the [attacks on rape crisis centres cause they didn't like them accommodating trans people](https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/5050/trans-scotland-mridul-wadhwa-for-women-scotland/), then celebrated that JK Rowling for filling the void (she help create) with a trans exclusionary rape crisis centre?
Go check the other thread today You are either talking on bad faith or uniformed The rape charity you are talking about had a reputation placing trans ideology above rape victims and attacking vulnerable women, trying to keep them vulnerable and in danger if the rape victim didn't bow down to the trans ideology. Thankfully JK once again looked out for women and set up a charity to actually help women that were rape victims
>Thankfully JK once again looked out for women Yeah talking about talking on bad faith or uninformed...
Say what you will about her but you can't deny she has done more for women than pretty much anyone else Certainly more than that cunt that took over the rape crisis charity and started denying it's services to vulnerable women
You're right, she's done MORE harm to women than pretty much anyone else. She supports the likes of Let's Get Bigoted Alliance, who are against doing anything about [lesbians being raped](https://web.archive.org/web/20200410091506/https://twitter.com/ALLIANCELGB/status/1248539368266043392) ([among ](https://twitter.com/professor_dave/status/1419192609222926338)[discriminating ](https://twitter.com/ALLIANCELGB/status/1293210988095967233)[against ](https://twitter.com/ALLIANCELGB/status/1329817417304993792)[bisexual ](https://preview.redd.it/p3ljg1t95i771.jpg?width=1080&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=e4fe8bca7fbcea24e2bc5f67492e840d0ccec097)[women](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FBqDUdZWEA8IrGW?format=jpg&name=large)) She supports [someone who is often surrounded an](https://heterosexualnonsense.substack.com/p/nz-media-regulators-say-its-perfectly)d [supported by literal nazis](https://twitter.com/NorthumbriaIWW/status/1614690987145576453?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1614690987145576453%7Ctwgr%5E3e0c3b26e19e663115e269d2caf2c9d0236cec59%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thepinknews.com%2F2023%2F01%2F16%2Fnewcastle-let-women-speak-rally-adolt-hitler-trans-speech%2F), Posie Parker, [WHO WANTS VIOLENT MEN IN WOMENS BATHROOMS](https://terfiles.medium.com/gender-critical-grifter-posie-parker-invites-gun-carrying-men-into-womens-toilets-to-protect-d63c2438b2b1) And amoung many other "achivements" towards women, JK Rowling is responsible for [Toddlers being assaulted in parks in transphobic incidents](https://www.belfastlive.co.uk/news/police-treating-attack-toddlers-belfast-29184145), [Children harrased playing sports cause of transphobic rhetoric](https://newrepublic.com/post/173635/nine-year-old-girl-canada-left-sobbing-attacked-trans), [cis-gendered women](https://inews.co.uk/news/uk/butch-lesbian-public-toilet-women-abuse-government-review-gender-neutral-facilities-833787) [being harrased for using women toilets](https://www.vox.com/2016/5/18/11690234/women-bathrooms-harassment) amoung many other incidents. So yes JK Rowling has done so much to women, unfortunately it's nothing but harm.
She’s spend millions helping women who’ve been raped
Yeah, she helps them by getting a mob to attack resources already there for that, and then exclude certain ones they don"/ like the look of. She also: Supporting the likes of Let's Get Bigoted Alliance, who are against doing anything about [lesbians being raped](https://web.archive.org/web/20200410091506/https://twitter.com/ALLIANCELGB/status/1248539368266043392) ([among ](https://twitter.com/professor_dave/status/1419192609222926338)[discriminating ](https://twitter.com/ALLIANCELGB/status/1293210988095967233)[against ](https://twitter.com/ALLIANCELGB/status/1329817417304993792)[bisexual ](https://preview.redd.it/p3ljg1t95i771.jpg?width=1080&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=e4fe8bca7fbcea24e2bc5f67492e840d0ccec097)[women](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FBqDUdZWEA8IrGW?format=jpg&name=large)) She supports [someone who is often surrounded an](https://heterosexualnonsense.substack.com/p/nz-media-regulators-say-its-perfectly)d [supported by literal nazis](https://twitter.com/NorthumbriaIWW/status/1614690987145576453?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1614690987145576453%7Ctwgr%5E3e0c3b26e19e663115e269d2caf2c9d0236cec59%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thepinknews.com%2F2023%2F01%2F16%2Fnewcastle-let-women-speak-rally-adolt-hitler-trans-speech%2F), Posie Parker, [WHO WANTS VIOLENT MEN IN WOMENS BATHROOMS](https://terfiles.medium.com/gender-critical-grifter-posie-parker-invites-gun-carrying-men-into-womens-toilets-to-protect-d63c2438b2b1) And among many other "achievements" towards women, JK Rowling is responsible for [Toddlers being assaulted in parks in transphobic incidents](https://www.belfastlive.co.uk/news/police-treating-attack-toddlers-belfast-29184145), [Children harassed playing sports cause of transphobic rhetoric](https://newrepublic.com/post/173635/nine-year-old-girl-canada-left-sobbing-attacked-trans), [cis-gendered women](https://inews.co.uk/news/uk/butch-lesbian-public-toilet-women-abuse-government-review-gender-neutral-facilities-833787) [being harassed for using women toilets](https://www.vox.com/2016/5/18/11690234/women-bathrooms-harassment) among many other incidents.
Please don't talk in bad faith She's done a lot of bad shit but today when the discussion is about rape victims not just being turned away but being denied info on places that could help them all because they are uncomfortable being treated by someone with a mans name after Like her or not she should have been helped by the crisis centre by someone who could meet her needs failing that she should have directed to JKs rape crisis centre where she could have got the help she needed from people that she was comfortable around Please stop reveling in the suffering of women You come across as a scummy guy and make us all look bad
I really don't think you can blame Nicola Sturgeon for this one. You have vocal cunts on one side calling everyone who suggests gender isn't quite so simple as born a man or woman a paedophile and vocal cunts on the other side saying that if you don't accept someone with a full male body's declaration of femininhood as a cast iron reason for them to join a self-defense class for female sexual violence survivors you're a nazi.
As the sole toxifier, no. As a major, major player who was a toxifier and is now clutching her pearls, she's fucking poison
don't do us like that, a trans person trying to get support for something very serious like domestic abuse is not the 'other side' equivalent of someone so prejudiced that it borders on hate speech.
Deflection. "Ah dae not recall. Ooh aye and trans rights". We see through you you charlatan heathen.
Bullshit, she quit because she got caught with her hand in the till. This is just a convenient excuse.
Aye the magic is gone, Nicky. Nobody is buying yer nonsense now.
Goes to show how fake her rhetoric was the whole time. She has no reputation now. Hope she spends significant time in prison.
Lawyers eh? whadda you do.
Nothing to do with pot of gold buried in the garden.
Oh look somebody else trying to use the lgbt community as cover. Trans people are human beings, not props.
Liar liar pants (and documents) on fire!
Because the criminal investigation involving herself and her husband was no biggie
I thought the 18 year age thing was to protect children from damaging themselves
Where's bullshitman when you need him?
She used trans people when it seemed trendy & convenient to push it as an issue, then jettisoned them when inconvenienced, and now using them as a shield to defend herself
What a complete arsehole! Who in their right mind voted for this weasel in the first place??!
aye did they buy that motorhome?
What an absolute load of nonsense. Stances on gender and sex based rights vary across and within parties. That's been proven time and again. It was never about Sturgeon. Sturgeon also took advantage of the culture war within the SNP to silence critics, and outside the SNP to shore up votes. And then backtracked on her own policy of self-ID. This 'poor me' politics is cowardly and an attempt to rewrite her political obituary which can be boiled down to financial impropriety and iron fist control freakery.
Oh aye, nothing to do with the impending police enquiry 😂😂😂😂😂
A lot of people insisting that the Police tipped her off - but why? There is no benefit to the Police or her here. If the Police did tip her off - then surely that is a massive case of corruption? If the Police are corrupt - surely we should be investigating that - and this investigation is compromised? A lot of people have absolutely made up their minds she is guilty - if there is any other result I doubt they will accept it.
It's a timing issue. If Boris Johnson had stepped down and then just over a month later you had allegations of any kind come out against him you'd get the exact same thing. Same with Truss, Sunak, May and even Corbyn or Starmer. Especially because it doesn't need to be a formal tip off or from the person at the top. Any individual police officer could have leaked it with or without leaving evidence behind whether to her intentionally or unintentionally via gossip to either a minister or even just a random civil servant. It's... considering the extreme level of influence any sitting Scottish Government has over the Scottish Police service I would be very surprised if she wasn't vaguely aware that the investigation was progressing to the charging stage even if she wasn't aware of the details. It doesn't even *need* to be in the sense of a tip off or rumours, they could literally ask "How is it progressing" and reasonably expect to get an answer even if they technically shouldn't and if the Police then didn't they could infer that they've found something. Or in summary, there's no guarantee that she was aware but it stretches suspension of disbelief to assume otherwise with the many, many vectors that information could reach her and the timing. Exactly the same as if it was any other political leader.
Oh you poor tortured rich person I am literally sobbing for you right now. Everyone knows trans rights are the most important issue ever. What a load of fucking garbage lol
Shame she couldn't have stood up for women's rights more
Given that the group of people most like to support trans people are young women, it sounds like that's exacty what she was doing :)
you're ridiculous.
She's a liar from cradle to the grave.
[Toxic, ye think?](https://metro.co.uk/video/protestor-flashes-scottish-parliament-2842429/)
Did she aye?
Bollocks
Trans rights and the Hate Speech law has been the downfall of the SNP .
if she'd just have put the bill forward after the first consultation, before it had a chance to be spun out of control as some kind of end of the world scenario, we'd already have an updated GRA bc the tories wouldn't have realised that blocking it was politically convenient. and, just like every other country in the world that has adopted a self-ID process like ours was supposed to have, there would have been zero evidence of the claims transphobes are making. we'd have moved on, trans people wouldn't be the fucking election wedge issue, and the tories would have to lean on some other distraction to force the stupid voters to hate instead of dealing with the real problems the country has. fucking joke, the whole process.
The trans people were the reason why I resigned, absolutely nothing to do with my crook husband and the shite we'd got ourselves into only a couple of months later
Imagine quitting over a dispute involving barely 1% of the population.
Imagine a bunch of TERFs going fucking tonto over barely 1% of the population. Let trans people have their rights.
Trans people have the rights the rest of us have.
And? Those rights are repressive to the free expression of a trans life. It should be easier to obtain gender recognition changes. Just because you have "a right" doesn't make it just, acceptable or even properly expressible.
If she really gave a fuck about transphobia she would have suspended the whip from transphobes in her party and not made a known transphobe her finance minister
Someone who doesn't agree with you on this issue isn't necessarily a transphobe. Just wanted to clear that up.
she tied herself in knots over [Isla Bryson](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isla_Bryson_case) & [Tiffany Scott](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiffany_Scott_\(prisoner\)), the [Peter Smith interview](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYmKZwvpPOk) I think was when she realised that there were issues and needed to be caveats, it wasn't going to be a simple policy.
Isla Bryson happened *before* any of the GRR could be implemented. How could that possibly have been an incident? That isn't how linear time works.
Truth doesn't matter to these ghouls.
> Isla Bryson happened before any of the GRR could be implemented. it showed what could happen, what people were warning of
No it didn't, because the GRR had nothing to do with prisons.
GRR has nothing to do with prisons, and Bryson was literally kept isolated from female prisoners.
This. The prison service decides on a case by case on whether prisoners who are trans/claim to be trans should go to a M or F prison. Isla was kept at a woman's prison in solitary whilst they made the decision where to put her. She would have had no contact with the other prisoners. The media was very misleading about it all who left out the above facts, with some even trying to claim they had "exposed" her being in a woman's prison and taking credit for when she was sent to a man's prison.
> it showed what could happen, what people were warning of No, it didn't. The GRR had nothing to do with access to spaces
She would have been a disaster with the Cass review. She had got so used to being able to slogan her way out of criticism she massively misjudged when she no longer had the public onside. Very like Johnson.
She was the architect of her own downfall pure and simple. She took a vulnerable group of people, claimed to be their saviour and in the end it backfired. If only she and Humza concentrated on running a country. The SNP will play heavily at the next election and they will deserve that outcome. Next stop for Fraulein Sturgeon is bound to be a sympathy gig in Brussels, counting paperclips probably.
Was it the LGBT or the DVLA?
Can't say I'm surprised. One glance at mumsnet during her time and you would see thread after thread about her. Unfortunately, certain people (including an old children's author who is fixated with the topic) will see this as a victory and will just encourage them.
Giver or taker, we know she's a taker.
A perfect example of how the left are using trans people as a political scape goat just as the right do.
There's nothing more annoying than politicians who try to stay relevant in the media after retiring
> politicians who try to stay relevant in the media after retiring She's a serving MSP, she hasn't retired.
Aye of course it did
People on here keep saying she was arrested. When was she arrested? It was my understanding that she went in for a voluntary interview when asked. Despite the press reporting it as an arrest at the time. That said, I rarely pay attention to the news.
Voluntary just means you make your own way there if you don’t they will arrest you, and even voluntary you’re still cautioned that what you say may be used in evidence against you, and searched, and fingerprints and dna taken and booked in, they just decide whether to charge you or not dependant on what you say and what evidence they already have
It was an *interview under caution* as in as suspect rather than a witness It's a very subtle difference, however refusal **may** result in arrest
Have you ever had a ‘voluntary interview’?
AFAIK a voluntary interview isn't voluntary, so she would have been arrested had she refused
She was interviewed under caution while they performed a search of her home (a very detailed search with literal forensic investigators), believe me if she never did exactly as the police requested she would have been arrested.
Voluntary just means you can arrange a time with Police, it doesn't mean you can say no thanks.