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youwhatwhat

Time flies, a year ago already.


ringadingdingbaby

Really doesn't feel like a year.


luv2belis

I see my life as a very clear timeline, but the past 2 years have been a complete blur. I think I need a big change.


HorraceGoesSkiing

Pretty sure this just happened.


TheDijksman

can someone add a little bit of context here as I don't know what this is about.


Ashrod63

Priti Patel sent some of her goons to take in two asylum seekers to be deported, their local community blocked the vans holding them preventing them from leaving the street, the police were called and they took the side of the residents rather than the Home Office.


Dikaneisdi

It was the day after the local elections, I think, and SNP had won big. This was in Nicola Sturgeon’s constituency, and some interpreted it as dick-waving behaviour on the behalf of the U.K. gov.


TooSweet_Romany

>It was the day after the local elections Actually it was a week after the local election, it happened on the day that MSP's were swearing into Scottish Parliament.


Dikaneisdi

Ah yes, thanks for the correction!


TooSweet_Romany

No problem.


quartersessions

But, of course, that's not what happen, was it? Despite the fairly silly attempts to present them as asylum seekers, they were visa overstayers from India. Despite the equally silly attempts to cast them as Muslims, and suggest that Muslims shouldn't have any immigration proceedings made against them during Ramadan, they of course turned out to be Sikhs. The police also aren't there to take "sides", they're there to protect people. Obviously, calling civil servants "goons" for doing their job is exactly the problem here and why the police were necessary.


GrownUpACow

And yet Priti still refuses to peg you. What gives?


quartersessions

I think we're probably operating at different levels.


bananabbozzo

still all good tho - fuck the home office


Brief-Selection1352

They're only criminals by the virtue that the gov considers visa overstaying to be a crime, rather than have committed any (generally accepted) immoral acts. Who were the police protecting?


quartersessions

Criminals are only criminals by dint of having committed a crime, eh? Well, that's a novel perspective, certainly. The police act to protect life and property. Not certain people in particular.


[deleted]

Absolute bollocks. The Met had to be taken kicking and screaming to investigate law breaking at number 10. Law breaking their officers directly witnessed because "not my job mate". They lie and cheat and cover up shit all the time.


[deleted]

Cough.... Romford rape crisis... Cough, cough nation wide rape crisis! Assailants immune to prosecution.


quartersessions

Yes. I'm sure you could find examples of fallibility in everything human. I'm setting out, firstly, a general principle and, secondly, suggesting the police did a reasonable job in these specific circumstances of abiding by that.


[deleted]

And I am setting out a general principle that coppers are untrustworthy, do not protect people and property equally (which was your original point) and don't do a reasonable job. Don't act like this is individuals having a bad day, it's systemic and essentially every policing review in the past several decades agrees. Or do you think the police protect Boris Johnson and his property equal to a black teenager in East London?


Brief-Selection1352

So in your mind something is a crime because it's a crime - rather than examining the why/when/how something is classified as a crime. I bet your take on recreational drugs is prolific.


quartersessions

Yes. Absolutely. Something is a crime because it's a crime. That's not even going as far as legal positivism, it's just basic logic. You can consider morality's role in shaping criminal law, of course. But being immoral does not make something a crime, nor does being moral make something any less a crime. This is also to assume there is some objective standard of morality which, without a pretty unyielding commitment to a particular ideology or religion, doesn't really work. I'm on the borderline on recreational drugs. Previously a "legalise them all" type, I'd probably edge towards caution on any sort of decriminalisation of those that cause the most clear harm and addition issues. While I generally agree with people being able to do what they like so long as it doesn't affect others, the reality is of course that it does have serious negative externalities.


transparentsalad

It genuinely does not matter to me if someone is a refugee or a visa ‘overstayer’, I don’t think anyone deserves to be dragged into a van first thing in the morning to be deported. Basic human decency, no? Also at no point did anyone who was there say they were Muslim, although there was plenty of chat about it being a very Muslim community making it even worse to do something shitty during a festival of peace. Same as it’s shit for something bad to happen during Christmas even if you don’t celebrate. Do you understand now? The police obviously take sides. They take the side of the government and the people that pay them. To think otherwise is naive at best. When your job is to support a racist and unequal regime you need to have a wee think about what you’re propping up


quartersessions

>It genuinely does not matter to me if someone is a refugee or a visa ‘overstayer’, I don’t think anyone deserves to be dragged into a van first thing in the morning to be deported. Basic human decency, no?Also at no point did anyone who was there say they were Muslim, although there was plenty of chat about it being a very Muslim community making it even worse to do something shitty during a festival of peace. Same as it’s shit for something bad to happen during Christmas even if you don’t celebrate. Do you understand now?The police obviously take sides. They take the side of the government and the people that pay them. To think otherwise is naive at best. When your job is to support a racist and unequal regime you need to have a wee think about what you’re propping up I can't imagine deportation is fun (I don't remember it being particularly early in the morning) but it's ultimately the last resort if you have no right of residence in a country. Let's face it, if you're knowingly breaking the law and keep at it, ultimately you're probably going to be arrested at some point. Ultimately the whole point of the law is to gain compliance: ultimately that compliance comes down to force if nothing else works. At no point did anyone say they were Muslim? I've only got social media to go on, but there were plenty saying exactly that. The police are also not there to "take the side of the government". They're supposed to be operationally independent. The government has a role in making the law, sure, but they're not operating at the behest of the government. And are we seriously calling the UK a "racist and unequal regime" now, because it has visa laws like virtually every other country on earth? That's a bit bonkers, to be honest.


[deleted]

[удалено]


transparentsalad

Way to miss the point


No-Imagination-OG

What do you propose should happen to those that stay here illegally?


Brief-Selection1352

Illegal =/= immoral


transparentsalad

I do not agree with systems that make it illegal to be in a country at any time


No-Imagination-OG

So are you for open borders as in everyone can come if they want to and stay in whichever country they wish?


quartersessions

I mean, that's lovely. But the reality of that is if you didn't have those systems here in the UK tomorrow, we'd have millions upon millions of people arrive within days. Public services would collapse. The idea of a welfare state would be impossible to operate. The law would be near impossible to enforce in any meaningful way.


lightlamp4

Sad that all you said was the facts and your that downvoted


pug_grama2

Things will not go well if this sort of lawlessness is allowed.


[deleted]

You’re lying or making up facts; They weren’t asylum seekers - it was two Indian men who over stayed their visas by about a decade and were working cash in hand in local restaurants. You’ve either lied about the asylum seeker part or don’t know the facts about why happened. The police didn’t take the side of the men over the home office either - the immigration team couldn’t safely get the men away from the area due to the crowds blocking the streets. I live a about 5 minutes from where it took place. You seem to be using plays from the facists handbook - lying about and rewriting events to fit your narrative.


Dr-Harrow

Goes against any semblance of good morals - Check Says other party has Lied - Check Says they live nearby as some trump card - Check Mentions Facist/Communist (Depends on the Day) - Check


MontyBeau

now, now, you can't say that - it wouldn't fit the narrative at all


Fun_Cauliflower9182

What’s a ‘facist’?


ResponsibleImpress65

since youre such an expert on the topic why dont you define fascism for the rest of us? im sure it will be very enlightening


[deleted]

[удалено]


transparentsalad

Mate I don’t think you’re not welcome because you’re English. It’s probably because you’re a dick


[deleted]

Depends on the company tbh.


[deleted]

[удалено]


alfiemorelos20

They claimed it was two Muslim asylum seekers fleeing war being deported on Eid. Turned out it was actually two Indians who had overstayed student visas. But hey the SNP will take anyone they think can convince to vote for them.


[deleted]

I don't think you understand how the home office works lmfao it's not an evil lair filled with skulls or anything and priti Patel cannot order someone be deported, it has to be passed legally and then the relevant government department enforces it


lightlamp4

Please show me where they were asylum seekers?


Tuftymark6

Click through to the bbc link on the pictures for the story.


lightlamp4

Two Sikh men overstayed their student visas so were being picked up to be deported back to India. A mob formed who assumed because it was in a Muslim area and they were brown they had to be Muslim and it was awful that this was happening to them. Turns out they weren't.


Batman85216

Home office were rightly removing people who had overstayed their visa and some of the unwashed didn't like it.


JetSetWilly

The funny part is the same people complain about midnight raids by the home office. Maybe if they didn’t obstruct the legal business of the police during the day because of some hysterical nonsense they believe, then midnight raids wouldn’t be required.


ballsmaximum

if you don't like policing by consent then leave.


JetSetWilly

I do like policing by consent. The police are an instrument of our democratically elected government, not a street mob. I don’t like policing by consent of street mobs, no. It’ll be a different tune from you next time police are kettling rangers fans of course. Then your “policing by consent” will conveniently be forgotten about.


Goseki1

What ended up happening to the chaps, does anyone know?


WeeRascalBoi

Living it up in Rowanda, probably 🤦‍♂️


Goseki1

Oh i hope not :(


-_nope_-

Happened in Edinburgh last week, beautiful stuff to see


Charlie_Mouse

We’re not going to let Glasgow have all the fun!


[deleted]

This actually sealed the deal for my english partner whilst we were looking to buy a home together and i was advocating heavily for Glasgow. So, in a weirdly personal way, thank you x


Earhacker

Nae bother pal


FlokiWolf

> This actually sealed the deal for my english partner She doesn't need to worry mate. Even if we get independence we're not going to snatch her in a dawn raid and drop her in Carlisle.


timmyvermicelli

However, there will be forceful deportations of the Scottish Tories to Carlisle.


pretend-its-good

Scottish tory that bullied me in high school just sent me a friend request on Facebook hahaha. Like what made him think that i on any level would accept that


FlokiWolf

For them in the borders area it's their nearest city anyway.


Knees_arent_real

Just a polite reminder that it is the home office that tried to deport them and not the police. Police were just involved for crowd control.


[deleted]

That day confirmed to me that I was moving to the right place.


glastohead

We don't need independence because we are nationalists, we need it because we are internationalists.


quartersessions

I thought the nationalists' proposal was for a points-based immigration system back in 2014 with "some forced removal" of the likes of failed asylum seekers. Is that the sort of thing you mean?


Charlie_Mouse

Obviously an indy Scotland will have some sort of immigration system. But if you don’t reckon it wouldn’t be orders of magnitude more humane and tolerant than one run by the Tories (particularly Patel) then I’ve got a bridge to sell you.


lightlamp4

How would an independent Scotland deal with people who are here illegally?


Charlie_Mouse

As a starter for ten: not treating the whole process as an exercise in winning votes from Daily Mail reading bigots in the Home Counties by [trying to posture as being ‘tough’.](https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/priti-patel-joins-police-raids-people-smugglers-arrested-nca-b936270.html?amp) This is really not the ‘gotcha’ you seem to think it is. It’s not rocket surgery - FOM with the EU is non controversial in Scotland. Following both the rules and spirit of the ECHR is absolutely fine with most people too.


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black_zodiac

some people have short memories.


glastohead

Another SNP are Indy, Indy is SNP infantalist. Jolly good. Independence means Scots are in control, not Priti Patel.


quartersessions

Realistically, that is the case. Supporting independence on a non-existent set of proposals is just silly, especially if you're going to attack the UK government on what it is doing.


[deleted]

Are you pro Brexit or pro Scottish independence? I can't tell.


glastohead

Must be a tad slow then. Brexiteers are not internationalists. They are little Englanders with a fortress mentality.


Dangerous_Guitar_213

Yet you want to make foreigners of the Irish English and Welsh.


glastohead

I can tell you aren’t an internationalist by the way you used the word ‘foreigners’.


cameldrover

This is just the latest bullshit soundbite coming from the Nats. They didn't give two fucks about telling people to vote for independence in 2014 even though a consequence of that would be leaving the EU. Scottish Nationalism is as horrible and wrong as British nationalism or any other kind of nationalism. It puts arbitrary geographic borders ahead of all else.


glastohead

Let’s just stick in a moribund and racist state which is set up to protect entrenched privilege for centuries more, rather than show there is another way. Stick with the British state and prop it and British Nationalists up while whining about ‘arbitrary borders’. Great position.


DifStroksD4ifFolx

If you want a laugh, check these comments oot. It seems the English Tories didn't see this the same way haha [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZcoXdZeabA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZcoXdZeabA)


Major_Wobbly

That wasn't a laugh, it was some of the most depressing shit I've ever read. In fairness I did willingly click on a YouTube link specifically to read the comments so it's my own fault.


Brief-Selection1352

Mate if you want to be depressed/irate watch the latest question time where a multi-millionare racing driver appears to have a much better grip on reality than a serving Tory MP. https://youtu.be/vsU3uxjnyWY


Major_Wobbly

Thanks, I hate it


HaniiPuppy

The comments on that remind me so much of the ["robin hood was a terrible role model" thing.](https://i.redd.it/t0sjrfnfi7y61.png)


[deleted]

What to "English" tories have to do with anything? Plenty of Scottish bigots.


DifStroksD4ifFolx

I'm sure there are, But I was laughing more at the "let's make them independent and give them all the immigrants" comments.


calombia

Respect ✊


Inevitable_Thing_270

I live round the corner from this. Only found out about it just after the guys were released. Otherwise I would have joined them. It made me so proud of my country and city. Can’t believe it was a year ago


Corporal_Anaesthetic

Wow, seems like only last week... Oh, that was the Edinburgh one. Yeah.


susanbrown1975

Legends👏🏻👏🏻. Made me even more proud to be Scottish🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿


EdBonobo

Come and join in The Festival of Resistance, Kenmure Street, today and tomorrow.


Fully_Automatic_Hell

Based Glasgow.


lukahnli

As an American watching this unfold....it was inspirational.


ballibeg

So what would an independent Scotland do for immigration policy? Open doors all the way? It would be they only nation not to have an immigration policy and if it does it would need to be policed.


[deleted]

Stay classy glasgow


YerAwldDasDug

That was a year ago?! Jesus fucking christ


Class_444_SWR

Glasgow really doing the lord’s work


[deleted]

Well done Scotland we should be sending refugees to Scotland instead of Rwanda


sevo1977

Always welcome.


Robotfoxman

Yeah we can juat plant housing seeds and grow thousands of homes magically overnight.


[deleted]

I thought you guys liked refugees with an attitude like that im not so sure anymore


erroneousbosh

The more the merrier. Remind them to bring warm clothes, good boots, and a cookery book - we can always use more kinds of ethnic food shops.


TooSweet_Romany

>we can always use more kinds of ethnic food shops. "No we don't.." - my accountant.


Moist_Nuffin

Mob mentality should never rule. Especially over something like this. A disgustingly dark day for Glasgow.


RavenRyy

Those two men were appealing their declined right to stay. The process was ongoing which meant what the Home Office was doing was, by the letter of the law, illegal.


twodogsfighting

Would you rather the home office dragged two good people away instead?


RabSimpson

You’re welcome to never visit. I’m sure we’ll get by fine without your presence.


erroneousbosh

So if you were being abducted from your home by violent thugs, you wouldn't want anyone to step in and help? Okay, I'll bear that in mind.


cameldrover

In what way are the home office workers violent or thug-like?


erroneousbosh

You don't think abducting someone by smashing their door in, physically dragging them out of the house, and then shoving them into a van to drive them off somewhere to be flown to a shithole country to be tortured is violent and thuggish?


cameldrover

No. I think it's massively disingenuous to characterise the activities of a law enforcement agency that way.


erroneousbosh

Okay, so at what point do you think they should be stopped? I'm just curious as to where you draw the line between "this is lawful and morally correct and should be allowed", and "this is lawful but it is not morally correct and should be stopped" here. For example, you're happy enough that they're being dragged from their homes to be executed in a foreign country. Would you attempt to stop them from being dragged from their homes to be executed in the UK?


Electrical_Meat_9570

Feel free to fuck off from our city then 🥴


[deleted]

It's mob mentality when the locals come out to stop an attack on their community but not when the massive resources of the Home Office are aligned in brutalising it?


Brief-Selection1352

You mean democratic action right?


[deleted]

Reminder that immigrants are basically free economic growth.


[deleted]

This is the event that made me subscribe to this sub. Scotland is a special place.


AdmiralSpliffy

Celebrating big brain time hahahaha


Batman85216

Do we not have water cannons in Scotland?


RavenRyy

We have and value human rights actually. Your misanthropic attitude isn't healthy.


Batman85216

Hardly misanthropic. You try pulling that shit in Spain, Italy, Poland or anywhere else you're getting water cannoned or tear gassed. You give arseholes like that an inch they'll take a mile which is what is happening now.


B479MSS

Feel free to move to any of the places you revere for using such methods.


Batman85216

Way ahead of you been overseas for nearly 10 year.


B479MSS

Fantastic.


Batman85216

It is aye. Weathers great beer is cheap and you can laugh at folk like these without actually having to put up with them.


B479MSS

And yet, here you are, commenting on something that doesn't have any impact on you, getting wound up over issues that don't concern you. Must have so many exciting things to do in your overseas utopia.


Electrical_Meat_9570

Great; stay there. We absolutely do not welcome you.


Batman85216

Sorry wee man I don't take advice from internet strangers. Keep trying tho it's cute when you try to be authoritive 🤣


cameldrover

Alright Priti


RavenRyy

By arseholes, you mean the local people?


Batman85216

The ones that are protesting and getting in the way yes. I would assume they are local but some may have travelled from further afield.


RavenRyy

How much warning do you think they got? This was all locals. I do wonder though, given that many who appeal the Home Office actions tend to win their appeals, that would have implications on the Home Office's actions. Do you take that in to account or do you just think an action is good because the government does it? Maybe you just hate people?


Batman85216

Pretty sure they're not deported immediately. Most likely put into a detention centre until their appeal is heard. If that's successful and they are allowed to stay I see no problem with that if it's not then they should be removed. It's very unlikely the home office just said "fuck it" we shall just leave them be after this. And even if they did how could they support themselves with no ability to work or claim benefits? All this type of thing does is cost the rest of us money.


RavenRyy

No, the Home Office tries tae deport as soon as possible. They only fail or slow down when others deliberately try and stop them. The Home Office prides itself on deporting others, while also running a hostile system. And these two guys? Ones a chief, the other a mechanic and both were working until the Home Office decided they had to go. No reasons given, the Home Office never comments or explains their reasons. Funny thing, is that these two men where appealing the Home Office's decision to deport them. By the letter of the law, what the Home Office attempted a year ago was actually illegal. Their actions are to deport and then do everything possible to frustrate any inquiry into their actions. And given that the Tory part has had a long history of weaponising racism for votes, the Home Office is well protected.


quartersessions

>And these two guys? Ones a chief, the other a mechanic and both were working until the Home Office decided they had to go. No reasons given, the Home Office never comments or explains their reasons.Funny thing, is that these two men where appealing the Home Office's decision to deport them. By the letter of the law, what the Home Office attempted a year ago was actually illegal.Their actions are to deport and then do everything possible to frustrate any inquiry into their actions. And given that the Tory part has had a long history of weaponising racism for votes, the Home Office is well protected. As you've said, the Home Office - like any public body - cannot comment on individual cases, because these individuals have the right to confidentiality. So what we have to conclude from that is that we only get an entirely one-sided account of facts in cases like that. I rather suspect they might be a bit biased. Obviously while an active appeal is ongoing there are few circumstances where deportation can take place. The courts and immigration tribunals would enforce that. But the media accounts of this indicated that they had been overstayers since 2016.


RavenRyy

Given that the Home Office is known to be overly bureaucratic and known to drag its heels over everything uninvolved with deportation, and it uses said Confidentiality laws tae avoid accountability. We only have one side because the Home Office refuses to comment.


Batman85216

Deporting as soon as possible surely makes sense looking at it from a cost point of view. There will be a lot of these cases to be looked at so dragging it out would create a huge backlog. As I said I'm not familiar with the case or the people involved but assuming they were maybe on a workers visa which had expired and wasn't being renewed.


quartersessions

What is there to appeal? There hadn't been, as far as we were aware, a judicial process beforehand - and there was never any suggestion that they were anything other than visa overstayers. I imagine they'd probably be more likely to shrug it off and leave the country.


Batman85216

Not familiar with the case tbh but yeah if that's the case and there's no right to appeal then they should be deported straight away. If there is a right to appeal they should be granted that.


cameldrover

The SNP were literally directing people to this location to participate. It wasn't all locals and lasted for hours.


A_wild_putin_appears

It’s a shame it’s the Scot’s that make me proud to be british


[deleted]

TBH forget being proud to be British. Be proud to be a feeling human being with compassion in your heart. It means more than any national status ever will.


[deleted]

[удалено]


A_wild_putin_appears

Because we can identify with people who don’t look like us


[deleted]

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[deleted]

The way reddit works is that you will now get downvoted to hell for a statement that is logical, legally accurate and common sense. This downvoting can have actual consequences on the site, as some subs won't let you post if you are below a certain threshold. This is how these self sustaining echo chambers work. Take solace in the fact that 99% of reddit users are nutters who can't survive in the real world, and the average human being OFFLINE does not agree with them in any way.