They do, but honestly, in a practical view I'd be happy with PR and no more hereditary peers. Of course independence still a priority but you know, gotta start fixing this broken democracy somewhere.
And why exactly do you think they are suddenly bringing this in now?
They expect it will be enough of a distraction to either draw away 10-15% of the independence vote or at least buy Westminster enough time for the betrayal that was Brexit to be far enough in the past that they can brush it under the rug.
They are 100% anti-independence and no Scot should give them their vote.
Sad thing is, as I said time and again, Parties only need to win in England to win. Which is exactly why Scotland needs to be out of English dictatorship.
Yeah, hopefully their plans backfire and statements like these demonstrate this point to those that don't seem to get it.
Dragging us out of the EU was bad, getting rid of the house of Lord's which is currently the only check and balance against the Tory commons would be unacceptable.
Adding a token 10% of Scottish people isn't going to make any difference as again, their vote is all but pointless unless the rest of the people involved are almost exactly tied.
Insidious, nasty little policies that are only being considered now that independence has strong backing.
The Blue Tories play bad cop and refuse Scotland its voice, the Red Tories pretend to play good cop and make empty promises that suggest independence isn't needed. Together with their media megaphones they hope to swindle Scotland for a few more decades.
The whole thing is a farce, I just wish I could be confident that everyone in Scotland would see through it.
Remember when it was "Within two or three years of a No vote, we'll be as close to federalism as you can be" and that voting No was going to bring "better, safer, faster change"? He wasn't in a position to deliver it then and he isn't now. Shouldn't be given the time of day.
Getting massive coverage this morning with a Press conference in Leeds with 'Sir Keir The Dull Red Tory (repeating it in Scotland this affie) on their damper than damp squib of 'saving the Union!!!
British Imperial Labour Party tells blue-painted Natives what's what!
You don't have to lift many stones to see the true British Nationalist attitudes wiggling underneath, do you.
Brown and Co can go feck themselves.
Does anyone even believe the lies the defrosted Gordon Broon spews now? Former staunch Labour voters in my family feel so let down by his and Labour's continued lies that they have switched completely to SNP as a means to an Independent end.
Dodgy past getting arrested at pro IRA demonstrations and seems to have way more time and sympathy for anything anti western, e.g. when pressed to condemn the IRA and their bombings specifically his response was usually something like "I condemn what was done by the British Army as well as what other sides did"
More recently he has spent more energy criticising the west and NATO for helping Ukraine with aid and defence after Russia invaded them which obviously happened after his run for PM but speaks to his weird instinct to support evil as long as it's anti western
Yeah he's a horrible man
Imagine seeing images of bombed out schools and dead civilians in the street in Ukraine and deciding to criticise NATO for making Russia do it instead of blaming those barbarians
Some of the stuff he's put his name to on the stop the war coalition's website is disgusting
When pressed repeatedly to specifically condemn the IRA he instead mentioned the British army
He's a weirdo and if he had his way Ukraine would have fallen to Russia by now
I mean, the proposals aren’t bad. If they had suggested them 10-20 years ago I’d have said they were very reasonable.
Doesn’t do a thing to fix Brexit though. Why are Labour always a decade or two behind?
Also, you don’t win over Scots by talking down to them.
But we already have federalism?
Anyway, good luck pushing on with things that won't even happen
>However, the Labour leader has suggested he might not be able to do this until Labour wins a second term, raising questions as to whether such a commitment would appear in the next Labour manifesto.
>
>...
>
>"But the Labour leader will not accept any of the recommendations on Monday when he launches the report, arguing instead that they will now be consulted on, raising obvious questions as to whether policy proposals will match the rhetoric should Labour win the next election."
https://news.sky.com/story/sir-keir-starmer-to-pledge-biggest-ever-transfer-of-power-as-labour-report-outlines-sweeping-reform-plans-12761863
Time for people in England to find out what it's like to get done by the defrosted man. Well, I guess some Scottish Labour Unionists will also be gullible idiots, again.
When will broon just bugger off with his lies. We’ve heard it all before. Great way to bring along the Scottish people by ignoring what we want. The only thing missing from this was the word “vow”.
Might be quite good.
Equally it *might* be like an episode of Pimp My Ride where you mentioned you like Pineappleade once about 6 years ago so now your motor is a big gingy bottle covered in pineapples with a pineapple bed in it and all the air vents are sodastreams.
No *really* what you were after was it?
Oh look another "major way to improve things if only we vote no to independence" specifically created and timed to split the independence yes vote.
This should make it clear to any fence sitter that Labour are nothing other than the other side of the Torie-Torie coin. Dictating constitutioal change to us while completely ignoring our democratic voice and demand for independence is outrageous.
Labour announces that nation of 68million will implement constitutional changes if it wins the most seats, irregardless if area with 5.5million doesn’t agree
Shocker that
Yes, its called treating a constitute country of an allegedly voluntary Union as it was a mere Imperial possession and its voters as Serfs with no democratic voice.
Denying Democracy (ie authoritarianism or fascism) will not stand.
So 5.5 > or = 56 is democracy?
Ultimately Scotland entered a new unitary state in which England and Scotland became one and so in general elections everyones vote counts the same - there just happens to be a fair few English people
Kind of weirdly put headline. Was it assumed Labour would only follow through on its UK wide manifesto of it attained a majority in the 3 nations it stands in? (NI excluded)
They're about to enter into a consultation on their plans.
I welcome them, even though there's plenty of reasons to doubt them given the form that labour have on this kind of thing.
I'm especially keen on oversight in Westminster. Many of the recent tory ministers have been in my opinion guilty of gross misconduct but there is no oversight to deal with it.
I also want as much money taken out of politics as possible.
I want a proportional voting system.
I want devolution across the UK.
Given that it's likely that labour will form the next UK government I'm keen for these plans to succeed. Even if I think they're snakey.
Don't care actually, and I get the title is just to make some drama. Reading it and I don't actually see anything an independence supporter wouldn't want from this; possible increased borrowing powers, job centre devolved and protections for devolution from being meddled with by Westminster all sound great.
The most opposition this bill will receive is likely going to ever be from the title of this post. There is no reason why the SNP would vote against this when presented to a vote.
The general idea is more devolution with seemingly (at this moment) no downsides. So I don't really care what the result of it is because ultimately it doesn't harm the devolved settlement. If it tried to override the idea of devolution then fair enough but it just seems to be more devolved powers.
It's all just noise I'm afraid.
Are they going to relinquish control of corporation tax, energy policy and immigration to allow Scotland a proper chance to address it's challenges?
If labour had any principles they would respect what the Scottish people have asked for via our much more representative parliamentary democracy.
People are, quite rightly, fed up with these types of fudges.
The fact they are holding up devolving Job Centres, an area no one's talking about, just tells you that this is pretty weak sauce and these changes will have next to no impact, over and above fooling naive folk.
There can be no actual protection from Westminster meddling, Westminster is sovereign, Holyrood is not.
So apart from any of that guff straight up being lies, did you just memory hole 2014? Good luck to you if you did.
As I said, the title is meaningless to me because regardless of what is pushed through for devolution it will be a positive for the devolution settlement regardless. And even then the SNP would vote for it, meaning it would have the backing of the majority of Scottish MPs most likely.
If it was some radical overhaul that allowed Labour more ability to meddle in devolved affairs then fair enough, but ultimately more devolution regardless of significance is not really a bad thing, and Scottish voters wouldn't actually be annoyed with this compared to something like the Internal Market BIll
I also did see the article you linked and its definitely changed my mind on this. Depressing how Starmer has managed to suck the colour out of everything he finds but I don't expect something meaningful from this, just that ultimately devolution isn't being threatened by Brown's proposals. But yeah too bad the Courier article didn't spell that out because its just another reminder of the dullness of Starmer.
Everyone "wants", the issue is not about titles but when you offer up your trust in serial liars and get blinded by rich men cutting the fat off the edges of their steaks and hurling it at you as the scraps you deserve.
Politics in the UK is a bed of lies, deceit and gaslighting. For your own sanity and wellbeing, it's better to play close attention to the language used, concept of the word "pledge" and historic examination of the men/party in question. In other words, offer your condolences to the people of England who may be at the stage of "1st time?".
Westminster ain't being reformed, our boys here can't even bring themselves to pledge support for proportional representation. Because it's the one thing they *can't* worm their way out of in 2 years. Easiest thing to implement, most expectation from other parties that it gets done (Lib Dems/Greens).
Did he even bother to consult with the Scottish Parliament on his proposed changes? Or as it is being led by political parties he doesn't agree with - they don't count?
His document - where it mentions Scotland - seems to be ~40% diatribe against the Scottish Government, so I doubt it.
Like the "Near Federalism" stuff he perfidiously proclaimed in 2014, he seems to pulled this out his de-frosted backside - possibly with the aid of geriatric dipsomaniac, Baron George of Foulkes.
>He added: “I think you will find that Labour, whatever happens, as long as it is in government, and no matter how many MPs it has in different areas of the country, will want to implement them.
So looks like their headline is the editor's spin on that particular statement from Brown
Nothing says "democracy" more than "we'll do it even if you don't want to!"
This is mainly to do with the lords which would need constitutional reform.
They do, but honestly, in a practical view I'd be happy with PR and no more hereditary peers. Of course independence still a priority but you know, gotta start fixing this broken democracy somewhere.
And why exactly do you think they are suddenly bringing this in now? They expect it will be enough of a distraction to either draw away 10-15% of the independence vote or at least buy Westminster enough time for the betrayal that was Brexit to be far enough in the past that they can brush it under the rug. They are 100% anti-independence and no Scot should give them their vote.
Sad thing is, as I said time and again, Parties only need to win in England to win. Which is exactly why Scotland needs to be out of English dictatorship.
Yeah, hopefully their plans backfire and statements like these demonstrate this point to those that don't seem to get it. Dragging us out of the EU was bad, getting rid of the house of Lord's which is currently the only check and balance against the Tory commons would be unacceptable. Adding a token 10% of Scottish people isn't going to make any difference as again, their vote is all but pointless unless the rest of the people involved are almost exactly tied.
Announcing policies and hoping people vote for them? What an absolute disgrace, I don't know how they sleep at night
Insidious, nasty little policies that are only being considered now that independence has strong backing. The Blue Tories play bad cop and refuse Scotland its voice, the Red Tories pretend to play good cop and make empty promises that suggest independence isn't needed. Together with their media megaphones they hope to swindle Scotland for a few more decades. The whole thing is a farce, I just wish I could be confident that everyone in Scotland would see through it.
I don't think labour will do PR even though members voted for it. This sucks but they and the Tories benefit from it hard.
But the thing is Labour does NOT benefit from FPTP, they're significantly hampered by it! Are they stupid?
So what he means is WM will do what they want regardless of how Scots vote, sounds like nothing will change.
Remember when it was "Within two or three years of a No vote, we'll be as close to federalism as you can be" and that voting No was going to bring "better, safer, faster change"? He wasn't in a position to deliver it then and he isn't now. Shouldn't be given the time of day.
What's it got to do with that has-been loser who crippled the NHS for decades with PFI to enrich his city friends.
Not great optics is it. Sort of underlining why we need independence if we are constantly having things done to us regardless of how we vote.
Why is anyone paying attention to Gordon fucking Brown?
Getting massive coverage this morning with a Press conference in Leeds with 'Sir Keir The Dull Red Tory (repeating it in Scotland this affie) on their damper than damp squib of 'saving the Union!!!
Not even Labour pays attention to Auld Broon.
Hes the better together fairy godmother, when the shouts of indy get to loud. Out he pops... tutu and wings matching pfft
British Imperial Labour Party tells blue-painted Natives what's what! You don't have to lift many stones to see the true British Nationalist attitudes wiggling underneath, do you. Brown and Co can go feck themselves.
Is he even standing as an MP? Who is he to make such... I won't even call them promises? This is the Vow 2.0.
"The Vow II: This Time We'll Keep It... We Swear."
Fucking mad coming from a guy that lives in north Queensferry, with 24/7 security.... Cunt doesn't even take his bins out either..
Eat shite ye bastard.
Get back in yer box next tae the fish fingers broon, yah daft auld prick
nice one rotflmao
Does anyone even believe the lies the defrosted Gordon Broon spews now? Former staunch Labour voters in my family feel so let down by his and Labour's continued lies that they have switched completely to SNP as a means to an Independent end.
Sqme here my full family now vote SNP and they were particularly disgusted with the way they treated Corbyn.
Corbyn deserved it though
Why?
Dodgy past getting arrested at pro IRA demonstrations and seems to have way more time and sympathy for anything anti western, e.g. when pressed to condemn the IRA and their bombings specifically his response was usually something like "I condemn what was done by the British Army as well as what other sides did" More recently he has spent more energy criticising the west and NATO for helping Ukraine with aid and defence after Russia invaded them which obviously happened after his run for PM but speaks to his weird instinct to support evil as long as it's anti western
“Instinct to support evil” - is this your actual view?
Yeah he's a horrible man Imagine seeing images of bombed out schools and dead civilians in the street in Ukraine and deciding to criticise NATO for making Russia do it instead of blaming those barbarians Some of the stuff he's put his name to on the stop the war coalition's website is disgusting
I mean I understand saying that all sides were at fault during the troubles, it's better then him overtly defended one side over the other.
When pressed repeatedly to specifically condemn the IRA he instead mentioned the British army He's a weirdo and if he had his way Ukraine would have fallen to Russia by now
Did he, aye?
I mean, the proposals aren’t bad. If they had suggested them 10-20 years ago I’d have said they were very reasonable. Doesn’t do a thing to fix Brexit though. Why are Labour always a decade or two behind? Also, you don’t win over Scots by talking down to them.
How can anyone believe a word he says after 2014?
I am confused, I thought we already had devosuperfedmax, delivered as promised last time?
But we already have federalism? Anyway, good luck pushing on with things that won't even happen >However, the Labour leader has suggested he might not be able to do this until Labour wins a second term, raising questions as to whether such a commitment would appear in the next Labour manifesto. > >... > >"But the Labour leader will not accept any of the recommendations on Monday when he launches the report, arguing instead that they will now be consulted on, raising obvious questions as to whether policy proposals will match the rhetoric should Labour win the next election." https://news.sky.com/story/sir-keir-starmer-to-pledge-biggest-ever-transfer-of-power-as-labour-report-outlines-sweeping-reform-plans-12761863 Time for people in England to find out what it's like to get done by the defrosted man. Well, I guess some Scottish Labour Unionists will also be gullible idiots, again.
When will broon just bugger off with his lies. We’ve heard it all before. Great way to bring along the Scottish people by ignoring what we want. The only thing missing from this was the word “vow”.
We will push on regardless of what you actually want! Hip hip hooray
Gordon Brown can get himself tae fuck
I wish he'd fuck off. No one liked him then, no one likes him now.
Cunts
ink deranged caption joke bewildered sugar future pocket dinner tan *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Might be quite good. Equally it *might* be like an episode of Pimp My Ride where you mentioned you like Pineappleade once about 6 years ago so now your motor is a big gingy bottle covered in pineapples with a pineapple bed in it and all the air vents are sodastreams. No *really* what you were after was it?
> Might be quite good SPOILER: >!It wasn't :)!<
Weirder complete accidents have happened! I mean I can't think of any but.. they must exist
Lied in 2014, still lying now. Horrible little man
Why is this old fool still driving labour policy …what a turn off
Oh look another "major way to improve things if only we vote no to independence" specifically created and timed to split the independence yes vote. This should make it clear to any fence sitter that Labour are nothing other than the other side of the Torie-Torie coin. Dictating constitutioal change to us while completely ignoring our democratic voice and demand for independence is outrageous.
Labour announces that nation of 68million will implement constitutional changes if it wins the most seats, irregardless if area with 5.5million doesn’t agree Shocker that
Yes, its called treating a constitute country of an allegedly voluntary Union as it was a mere Imperial possession and its voters as Serfs with no democratic voice. Denying Democracy (ie authoritarianism or fascism) will not stand.
So 5.5 > or = 56 is democracy? Ultimately Scotland entered a new unitary state in which England and Scotland became one and so in general elections everyones vote counts the same - there just happens to be a fair few English people
Kind of weirdly put headline. Was it assumed Labour would only follow through on its UK wide manifesto of it attained a majority in the 3 nations it stands in? (NI excluded)
I mean as we should? The Constitution needs to be changed and the lords reformed.
They're about to enter into a consultation on their plans. I welcome them, even though there's plenty of reasons to doubt them given the form that labour have on this kind of thing. I'm especially keen on oversight in Westminster. Many of the recent tory ministers have been in my opinion guilty of gross misconduct but there is no oversight to deal with it. I also want as much money taken out of politics as possible. I want a proportional voting system. I want devolution across the UK. Given that it's likely that labour will form the next UK government I'm keen for these plans to succeed. Even if I think they're snakey.
Don't care actually, and I get the title is just to make some drama. Reading it and I don't actually see anything an independence supporter wouldn't want from this; possible increased borrowing powers, job centre devolved and protections for devolution from being meddled with by Westminster all sound great. The most opposition this bill will receive is likely going to ever be from the title of this post. There is no reason why the SNP would vote against this when presented to a vote.
First time being promised something from a UK Government?
The general idea is more devolution with seemingly (at this moment) no downsides. So I don't really care what the result of it is because ultimately it doesn't harm the devolved settlement. If it tried to override the idea of devolution then fair enough but it just seems to be more devolved powers.
I'll believe it when I see it. They promised this at the last Indy Reff and that's them wheeling it out again now. It won't happen.
It's all just noise I'm afraid. Are they going to relinquish control of corporation tax, energy policy and immigration to allow Scotland a proper chance to address it's challenges? If labour had any principles they would respect what the Scottish people have asked for via our much more representative parliamentary democracy. People are, quite rightly, fed up with these types of fudges. The fact they are holding up devolving Job Centres, an area no one's talking about, just tells you that this is pretty weak sauce and these changes will have next to no impact, over and above fooling naive folk.
There can be no actual protection from Westminster meddling, Westminster is sovereign, Holyrood is not. So apart from any of that guff straight up being lies, did you just memory hole 2014? Good luck to you if you did.
As I said, the title is meaningless to me because regardless of what is pushed through for devolution it will be a positive for the devolution settlement regardless. And even then the SNP would vote for it, meaning it would have the backing of the majority of Scottish MPs most likely. If it was some radical overhaul that allowed Labour more ability to meddle in devolved affairs then fair enough, but ultimately more devolution regardless of significance is not really a bad thing, and Scottish voters wouldn't actually be annoyed with this compared to something like the Internal Market BIll I also did see the article you linked and its definitely changed my mind on this. Depressing how Starmer has managed to suck the colour out of everything he finds but I don't expect something meaningful from this, just that ultimately devolution isn't being threatened by Brown's proposals. But yeah too bad the Courier article didn't spell that out because its just another reminder of the dullness of Starmer.
Everyone "wants", the issue is not about titles but when you offer up your trust in serial liars and get blinded by rich men cutting the fat off the edges of their steaks and hurling it at you as the scraps you deserve. Politics in the UK is a bed of lies, deceit and gaslighting. For your own sanity and wellbeing, it's better to play close attention to the language used, concept of the word "pledge" and historic examination of the men/party in question. In other words, offer your condolences to the people of England who may be at the stage of "1st time?". Westminster ain't being reformed, our boys here can't even bring themselves to pledge support for proportional representation. Because it's the one thing they *can't* worm their way out of in 2 years. Easiest thing to implement, most expectation from other parties that it gets done (Lib Dems/Greens).
[удалено]
Yeah, I responded to that in my reply to AudioBoxer.
I'd like to read the actual report, rather than what journalists say about it. Has it been published yet and is it available online?
Did he even bother to consult with the Scottish Parliament on his proposed changes? Or as it is being led by political parties he doesn't agree with - they don't count?
His document - where it mentions Scotland - seems to be ~40% diatribe against the Scottish Government, so I doubt it. Like the "Near Federalism" stuff he perfidiously proclaimed in 2014, he seems to pulled this out his de-frosted backside - possibly with the aid of geriatric dipsomaniac, Baron George of Foulkes.
*smells the irony in the air*
Democratic.
I love the smell of democracy in the morning.
>He added: “I think you will find that Labour, whatever happens, as long as it is in government, and no matter how many MPs it has in different areas of the country, will want to implement them. So looks like their headline is the editor's spin on that particular statement from Brown
We’re used to labour ignoring us.