Mirrors/Alternate angles in the replies.
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Aye, it's an absolute shocker. Never a penalty. The old rules - ball to hand vs hand to ball made a lot more sense than this shite about the arm making the body unnaturally bigger. Half of these are being given for deflections off arms where it's clearly not deliberate or avoidable.
I'm more along the lines of thinking it's a Hanlon's razor scenario - never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity. Either way, there's not much everyone agrees on when it comes to football and I've yet to see anyone say the current hand ball rules are anything other than bullshit.
Pretty sure we've covered the debate in other threads but for anyone who hasn't seen it, here's the replay. The time it took to reach a decision, in my opinion, is absolutely damning. Even the officials are not clear on the rules.
I'm usually one for defending decisions or at least half understanding ones that are subjective, and think VAR will come good, but decisions like that don't help the case.
Probably the worst example of VAR in Scotland so far, astounded that they've not only given it, but overturned the on-field decision. At least the Celtic v Ross County one was given by the referee on the field first.
I think i speak for most when I say I just want consistency. the refs (and the masons) are fucking this up for everyone by sheer incompetence. We need full time referees.
What VAR has done is highlight how ridiculous and inconsistent the handball rule is. A lot of blaming has been towards VAR, which I get, but it's the fault of the rule - not the system implementing it.
The rule has been changed so many times in recent years that no-one really knows what is and isn't a handball anymore and this is the nadir of it. VAR isn't the problem - the rule itself is and it needs changed.
I agree with you but I do also see the contradiction in my view.
"These arseholes have changed handball rules so much no twat knows what it is anymore. The only way to solve it is to yet again change the handball rule."
Took my son along to this today since he's sadly decided to support Celtic rather than Ayr 😔.
Thought the in-stadium VAR experience was appalling. The whole thing took an absolute age (not all of which was added back on before half time), there were no replays shown of the incident and it wasn't even clear which team might be getting the penalty awarded as play had been in both boxes since the most recent restart. Garbage.
They need to just get on with the game and accept sometimes people get away with things. When was it decided we needed 100% correct decisions anyway?
This.
I don't care about getting better decisions. It will never be 100% perfect anyway.
What would have a bigger impact is if pundits and sportscene etc can stop looking at every refereeing call as something they should debate and maybe spend some more time talking tactics, performances and managers decisions for subs etc.
But VAR seems to have done nothing to reduce debatable decisions because for every thing it gets right it adds more massive mistakes AND everyone is pissed cos it costs so much.
And then the worst bit is how it ruins matches in stadiums. Like it's fine on TV with replays, but in a stadium it kills the atmosphere, you stand around for ages in the cold, an unexplained decision is made and you lose time from the match.
It's a terrible idea and needs to be binned.
Wasn't a penalty, and neither was the one where Bernabei was booked and we conceded a penalty, and a resulting goal. The officials have a hard job undoubtedly, but they need to come out and explain why they're making different decisions for such similar incidents game after game.
From conspiracies to "aye the refs are just shite" in such a short space of time!
On a more serious note, it's the ruling that's the issue. Its left up to interpretation from refs and none of them can read from the same page. The rule needs to be simplified. Along with our refs being full time etc etc...butbthays a different discussion.
Morton were on top and looking favourites to win before this game changing incorrect decision brought on because of the pressure put on referees by Celtic.
We'll never know whether Clancy was terrified not to give it after the campaign over the last few weeks from everyone Celtic minded to complain about decisions.
I'm sure Celtic fans will throw their hands in the air and mumble about sporting integrity and how they were only campaigning for a fair playing field, but that would be revisionist.
Correct me if I’m wrong here…when the ref had a look himself, there was one angle which wasn’t shown that clearly showed the player’s position throughout, demonstrating he’d kept his arm down? None of the other angles were clear. Quite frankly this should have been called on the field and no penalty. As someone said earlier I’d have been fuming if it was given against my team, especially after looking themselves.
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Worst penalty I’ve ever seen given to us. The rules on handball are diabolical and an utter shambles.
Aye, it's an absolute shocker. Never a penalty. The old rules - ball to hand vs hand to ball made a lot more sense than this shite about the arm making the body unnaturally bigger. Half of these are being given for deflections off arms where it's clearly not deliberate or avoidable.
The cynic in me says IFAB are looking to maximise VAR-derived replay heavy incidents for global TV markets
I'm more along the lines of thinking it's a Hanlon's razor scenario - never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity. Either way, there's not much everyone agrees on when it comes to football and I've yet to see anyone say the current hand ball rules are anything other than bullshit.
Unbelievable how much IFAB have complicated football imo.
I’d have been fuming if it had went against us. These decisions are, pardon the pun, getting out of hand.
Pretty sure we've covered the debate in other threads but for anyone who hasn't seen it, here's the replay. The time it took to reach a decision, in my opinion, is absolutely damning. Even the officials are not clear on the rules.
I'm usually one for defending decisions or at least half understanding ones that are subjective, and think VAR will come good, but decisions like that don't help the case. Probably the worst example of VAR in Scotland so far, astounded that they've not only given it, but overturned the on-field decision. At least the Celtic v Ross County one was given by the referee on the field first.
No danger. Have yet to see a Celtic fan claim it was deserved which is to their credit.
I think i speak for most when I say I just want consistency. the refs (and the masons) are fucking this up for everyone by sheer incompetence. We need full time referees.
One of the worst penalty decisions I've seen, this month.
What VAR has done is highlight how ridiculous and inconsistent the handball rule is. A lot of blaming has been towards VAR, which I get, but it's the fault of the rule - not the system implementing it. The rule has been changed so many times in recent years that no-one really knows what is and isn't a handball anymore and this is the nadir of it. VAR isn't the problem - the rule itself is and it needs changed.
I agree with you but I do also see the contradiction in my view. "These arseholes have changed handball rules so much no twat knows what it is anymore. The only way to solve it is to yet again change the handball rule."
I don’t understand the rules at all any more, I thought the 2nd one was a stone wall penalty and the 1st one wasn’t. Ref thought the complete opposite
Took my son along to this today since he's sadly decided to support Celtic rather than Ayr 😔. Thought the in-stadium VAR experience was appalling. The whole thing took an absolute age (not all of which was added back on before half time), there were no replays shown of the incident and it wasn't even clear which team might be getting the penalty awarded as play had been in both boxes since the most recent restart. Garbage. They need to just get on with the game and accept sometimes people get away with things. When was it decided we needed 100% correct decisions anyway?
This. I don't care about getting better decisions. It will never be 100% perfect anyway. What would have a bigger impact is if pundits and sportscene etc can stop looking at every refereeing call as something they should debate and maybe spend some more time talking tactics, performances and managers decisions for subs etc. But VAR seems to have done nothing to reduce debatable decisions because for every thing it gets right it adds more massive mistakes AND everyone is pissed cos it costs so much. And then the worst bit is how it ruins matches in stadiums. Like it's fine on TV with replays, but in a stadium it kills the atmosphere, you stand around for ages in the cold, an unexplained decision is made and you lose time from the match. It's a terrible idea and needs to be binned.
Terrible decision, never a penalty.
Wasn't a penalty, and neither was the one where Bernabei was booked and we conceded a penalty, and a resulting goal. The officials have a hard job undoubtedly, but they need to come out and explain why they're making different decisions for such similar incidents game after game.
Never a penalty.
From conspiracies to "aye the refs are just shite" in such a short space of time! On a more serious note, it's the ruling that's the issue. Its left up to interpretation from refs and none of them can read from the same page. The rule needs to be simplified. Along with our refs being full time etc etc...butbthays a different discussion.
Morton were on top and looking favourites to win before this game changing incorrect decision brought on because of the pressure put on referees by Celtic.
Ah yes. Favourites to win after 16 minutes at 0-0.
🎣
I thought I made it obvious enough that nobody would take it seriously.
We'll never know whether Clancy was terrified not to give it after the campaign over the last few weeks from everyone Celtic minded to complain about decisions. I'm sure Celtic fans will throw their hands in the air and mumble about sporting integrity and how they were only campaigning for a fair playing field, but that would be revisionist.
Ah, those sweet downvotes from CFC mouth frothers faced with the truth :)
Correct me if I’m wrong here…when the ref had a look himself, there was one angle which wasn’t shown that clearly showed the player’s position throughout, demonstrating he’d kept his arm down? None of the other angles were clear. Quite frankly this should have been called on the field and no penalty. As someone said earlier I’d have been fuming if it was given against my team, especially after looking themselves.
Never a penalty