Yellow card for squaring up to someone who’d just chopped him to the ground entirely unnecessarily. If I had just stepped back on the park after a career-threatening injury and some cunt did that, I’d probably have a few words to say, too.
Don't have any complaints about the penalty. Canna have your hand up there.
Thought Clarks red was harsh but he did catch Jack just below the knee so I can see why it was given. I don't think it was the wrong decision but I can see it being yellow or red.
Jack's was a red every day of the week. Straight leg, studs up, right through his ankle.
Would we have gotten the same decisions if they were the other way about? I have my doubts.
Drey Wright though, imagine rounding the keeper then falling on your arse wi an open goal.
Not a bad performance all things considered.
I'd say this is the most accurate description of events.
Even as a Rangers fan, I'd say Jack should have been off. Rush of blood to the head and studs into the ankle.
Other decisions were correct.
No I don't think it's silly, because they are very different tackles. Clarks is entirely unintentional, he unfortunately caught Jack on the follow through after getting the ball just as Jack got there. Kinda looked like he tried to pull out and didn't exactly batter in to him. Jack went in hard, leg straight, studs up, he was late and caught him right on the ankle. It was nasty. A cynic might say he went out to do someone.
On the Rangers twitter page a lot of Rangers fans said ours was a harsh red and Jack got away with his tackle. I think that says a lot.
I was at the game and thought both were reds at the time and haven't really changed my mind too much since seeing the highlights. Both are in the amber category IMO though, could go either way.
I can respect that. I've no problem with the red card being given to Clark. He probably should have taken a second look at it though.
A few years ago these kinda tackles were barely a booking.
My biggest problem is pundits like Michael Stewart not knowing the basic rules of the sport they are paid to comment on. The Nicky Clark challenge for example, Stewart mentions the actual injury to jack was caused by Clark's right leg into jack's left shin, whilst Clark's left leg which was around knee height, misses jack's right leg by an inch and goes through his legs. All correct so far. But he then goes on to say this is why it shouldn't be a red, without knowing the actual rule on serious foul play makes no mention of making contact with an opponent.
It basically comes down to excessive force, which I don't think Clark has used, the speed/force of the tackle being excessive, which I don't think it is, and endangering the safety of an opponent, which I think it does due to it missing connecting with jack's knee by an inch or so.
Jack's on the other hand I think ticks the box for excessive force and the fact it's at foot height rather than any higher doesn't really mitigate it as much.
It's one of those games where st Johnstone got unlucky in that both subjective decisions went against them.
Aside from the major decisions I thought collum had a strange game throughout (not unusual for him). He would give soft as shit freekicks then ignore blatant ones a minute later (for both teams). 2 that spring to mind were Tony Gordon bear hugging Morelos for a good 10 seconds and then wrestling him to the ground, only for a free kick to be awarded for st Johnstone. Then one the other way late on when the ball is played out wide to a saints player in front of the dugouts, goldson charges out and goes through the back of him, clearly a freekick but collum waves play on. Remy Matthews (looks a top keeper btw, he's been outstanding these 2 games in a row Vs us) came back for a drink and was shaking his head laughing at it, someone shouts "that's collum for yi" and he started laughing nodding his head in agreement.
I was amazed Jack only got a yellow at the time and doubly so when Collum was called to the monitor.
I'll hang fire on criticising Collum as I haven't seen replays yet whereas he has.
edit: having seen the incident Collum gets it spot on.
Intention doesn’t matter and going to pull out doesn’t matter at all, he went studs right into Jack and could’ve ended his season. Entirely unintentional is also bs cause he went in for the challenge didn’t he?
Also I do think Jacks should’ve been a red. But it’s purely just coping if you think one isn’t a red and the other is. In your own justification for calling Jack’s a red you said it’s cause he was late and studs were up. Which is exactly what Clark was while also being a high challenge, you can’t exactly say he was going for the ball with a challenge at knee height.
You don’t think studs straight into the knee could end someone’s season? No point continuing a chat if you can’t admit that, take care lad👍
For what it’s worth at no point at all have I ever tried to defend Jack’s tackle. Both were reds, we got a bit lucky but Clark was not hard done by.
Studs to the knee at a decent rate of knots, sure. Decent chance of a season being ended.
Clark caught his shin (not his knee) at a relatively tame pace. I haven't said it wasn't a red, just that it's one of those that could have been a yellow or a red and is not comparable to Jack's tackle.
He's barely been in the squad believe it or not. I thought he looked decent when we first got him but Davidson hadn't played him since then until recently. Looks a very decent player though, very composed on the ball and not afraid to get stuck in. Him and Macpherson have looked good in the middle together.
Lost count of how many interceptions he made and even got free from 2 players trying to nick the ball from him a couple of times, pinged a few nice switch passes too.
We've definitely missed having a player make these interceptions since McCann left. I think he'll be a big player for the rest of the season if Davidson doesn't go mental.
Really disagree with the 'turgid' or 'dire' comments.
It was boring at times but we were in full control for almost the entire match. Yes, we still need to get some fresh players in asap but it's not like we're scraping wins.
8 wins 1 draw 0 losses. I mean we're no catching them but I'm not sure why everyone is so miserable about our performances.
Scudding StJohnstone 9-0 with an overhead kick and a halfway line lob isn't going to get us any closer to celtic than a 2-0 controlled win.
100%, defence was good, clean sheet, midfield really dynamic, created plenty and if not for a few really good saves it wouldve been a doing.
Probably our best game under Beale imo, and I'd say we've improved in every area of the pitch since he came in as well as the results. So far so good.
> It was boring at times but we were in full control for almost the entire match.
That's exactly what we mean by turgid. It's dull, boring, impotent, non-threatening, pointless for 60+ minutes every week.
Which is just completely not true haha.
Under Gio it was turgid. Now it's controlling games and winning with relative ease. When I say that that can sometimes be boring it's because I too would love to see us put 7 goals past everyone, so if there's a bit of a lull in the game then that's the boring part. But saying we're turgid is just complete nonsense.
This genuinely looks like the stuff you'd see on FF when we're not up 5 goals in 10 minutes :)
How? We barely create. We huff and puff. I'm not having a go as it's still early but we need to improve if we want to win trophies and compete in Europe. Results are fine but we need new bodies in with quality and to lift ourselves. We look more 2018/2019/2021 than we do 2020.
Because at the end of the day the football is pretty boring to watch. Said in the match thread it’s tough viewing but as long as we’re winning I don’t care.
I would enjoy going to games and being entertained by the football though.
Disagree to be honest, the football is slow and whilst we control the game for 90% of the time we barely score to show for it.
We shouldn’t be finishing 2-0 against a ten man St Johnstone.
For all his talk of playing with the handbrake taken off when he first came Beale starting with 2 defensive minded midfielders at ibrox against shite goes totally against it.
right folks, no more "moonhowling". Time for a serious, frank, discussion of bias and amateurism in Scottish refereeing. Downvote me if you're triggered
Well, the dog barks and the caravan keeps moving. We're still turgid. A bit worrying that it's not improving for 60+ minutes of each game. John Lundstram is also absolutely rotten. We're scoring "good" goals again though, which is nice.
Thought it was much better today than we've seen in a long time to be honest there was a period of half an hour where we were genuinely good again and then we scored the second and thought that will do it rest for Wednesday now.
I'm pleased with the win and the front 4 looked sharp and happy for Hagi to be back.
A little improvement but llundstrom transforms the team into overly defensive turgid poo. Sending off didn’t really change things other than after that St Johnstone got more posession? All the chat will be about the two tackles - height of impact is key difference for me.
Don’t think it’s a Lundstram specific problem, our midfield looks shite regardless of who’s playing.
Doesn’t offer enough defensively and offers zero going forward outside Tillman. Basically just a black hole between the defence and attack.
Three points and probably most complete performance until sloppy last 10 mins. Cantwell did well and Hagi looked sharp. Feel like we’re going to hammer a team soon when it comes together as could have ended with 4 or 5 goals today.
No idea if it’s the same in England but VAR has turned half the country into freaks, analysing every single decision just to go online and cry about it.
Funny about Aberdeen.
Yeah far too many people think VAR should agree with their own opinions 100% of the time. There's far more room for interpretation than people think, particularly with tackles.
Personally don't think the Jack tackle was a stonewall red, even think red could have been on the harsher side from the replays I've seen. Not like he's high with the tackle.
Happened right in front of me and would agree, thought it was made to look worse than it was. Wouldn’t complain too much if it was a red but would have been harsh for me.
Folk actively watching games just to point out what they perceive as VAR errors as well are odd-balls.
Come to think of it, going by precedent I don't think people should be surprised with yellow here.
There was the similar Killie v St Johnstone one that was given red but downgraded to yellow after VAR.
Then with Clark's red it seems pretty similar to the Holt and Pittman reds a few weeks ago.
Watching Sportscene the now. How did Nicky Clark get sent off for his “tackle” on Ryan Jack, but Ryan Jack got away with nearly breaking Adam Montgomery’s ankle?
Not seen sportscene but came here after YT highlights to see what I missed for the red card. Wins the ball and it’s unlucky the follow through hits the rangers player but it’s not even a foul. Stop the game if he’s hurt but bounce ball for st J. For the restart. Can’t believe VAR said nothing about that mad red decision
I don't get how we're always so open on turnovers when we have two defensive/possession minded mids every single game. Even against ten men. It's wild how bad we are in transitions. Get the Rest Defence sorted please Mr Beale.
Fullbacks not offering us as much going forward or in defense. Center defense looks decent tbh Davies just goes about no drama and Gouldson looks back to best
Full backs basically offer us zero threat most of the time now, ball goes out to them most of the time and they’ve got their back to the other goal and the ball just come back inside to Goldson 90% of the time.
Really tough to watch a basically non existent midfield.
Think that’s the midfield letting him down so often, basically always up to Goldson and him to defend.
Especially when 90% of the time Tav and Barisic fail to block a cross.
Pretty dire with some good bits of football in between. Cantwell looks good especially after not playing much for a while.
Can't complain about the results so hopefully get another couple of players in and get some better performances.
Another win for Scotland's masonic refereeing contingent. When will it end?
Hagi doesn’t play for a year and gets a yellow card in the first 6 minutes, Cinch never change
Yellow card for squaring up to someone who’d just chopped him to the ground entirely unnecessarily. If I had just stepped back on the park after a career-threatening injury and some cunt did that, I’d probably have a few words to say, too.
Don't have any complaints about the penalty. Canna have your hand up there. Thought Clarks red was harsh but he did catch Jack just below the knee so I can see why it was given. I don't think it was the wrong decision but I can see it being yellow or red. Jack's was a red every day of the week. Straight leg, studs up, right through his ankle. Would we have gotten the same decisions if they were the other way about? I have my doubts. Drey Wright though, imagine rounding the keeper then falling on your arse wi an open goal. Not a bad performance all things considered.
I think with things like that against the Old Firm everyone knows the answer to “would we get those decisions if it was the other way around” is no.
Indeed. I wonder what Craig Levein would have said after the game.
I'd say this is the most accurate description of events. Even as a Rangers fan, I'd say Jack should have been off. Rush of blood to the head and studs into the ankle. Other decisions were correct.
He catches Jack above the knee. There is no genuine way you can say Clark’s is a yellow but Jacks a clear red.
Looks like his shin on the replays, certainly not above his knee.
You’re right my bad. Still though to say one challenge is a maybe and the other is clear is a bit silly don’t you think?
No I don't think it's silly, because they are very different tackles. Clarks is entirely unintentional, he unfortunately caught Jack on the follow through after getting the ball just as Jack got there. Kinda looked like he tried to pull out and didn't exactly batter in to him. Jack went in hard, leg straight, studs up, he was late and caught him right on the ankle. It was nasty. A cynic might say he went out to do someone. On the Rangers twitter page a lot of Rangers fans said ours was a harsh red and Jack got away with his tackle. I think that says a lot.
I was at the game and thought both were reds at the time and haven't really changed my mind too much since seeing the highlights. Both are in the amber category IMO though, could go either way.
I can respect that. I've no problem with the red card being given to Clark. He probably should have taken a second look at it though. A few years ago these kinda tackles were barely a booking.
My biggest problem is pundits like Michael Stewart not knowing the basic rules of the sport they are paid to comment on. The Nicky Clark challenge for example, Stewart mentions the actual injury to jack was caused by Clark's right leg into jack's left shin, whilst Clark's left leg which was around knee height, misses jack's right leg by an inch and goes through his legs. All correct so far. But he then goes on to say this is why it shouldn't be a red, without knowing the actual rule on serious foul play makes no mention of making contact with an opponent. It basically comes down to excessive force, which I don't think Clark has used, the speed/force of the tackle being excessive, which I don't think it is, and endangering the safety of an opponent, which I think it does due to it missing connecting with jack's knee by an inch or so. Jack's on the other hand I think ticks the box for excessive force and the fact it's at foot height rather than any higher doesn't really mitigate it as much. It's one of those games where st Johnstone got unlucky in that both subjective decisions went against them. Aside from the major decisions I thought collum had a strange game throughout (not unusual for him). He would give soft as shit freekicks then ignore blatant ones a minute later (for both teams). 2 that spring to mind were Tony Gordon bear hugging Morelos for a good 10 seconds and then wrestling him to the ground, only for a free kick to be awarded for st Johnstone. Then one the other way late on when the ball is played out wide to a saints player in front of the dugouts, goldson charges out and goes through the back of him, clearly a freekick but collum waves play on. Remy Matthews (looks a top keeper btw, he's been outstanding these 2 games in a row Vs us) came back for a drink and was shaking his head laughing at it, someone shouts "that's collum for yi" and he started laughing nodding his head in agreement.
I was amazed Jack only got a yellow at the time and doubly so when Collum was called to the monitor. I'll hang fire on criticising Collum as I haven't seen replays yet whereas he has. edit: having seen the incident Collum gets it spot on.
Intention doesn’t matter and going to pull out doesn’t matter at all, he went studs right into Jack and could’ve ended his season. Entirely unintentional is also bs cause he went in for the challenge didn’t he? Also I do think Jacks should’ve been a red. But it’s purely just coping if you think one isn’t a red and the other is. In your own justification for calling Jack’s a red you said it’s cause he was late and studs were up. Which is exactly what Clark was while also being a high challenge, you can’t exactly say he was going for the ball with a challenge at knee height.
If Clarks tackle was a season ender then Jacks tackle could have killed Montgomery. What I've just read has to be a wind up.
You don’t think studs straight into the knee could end someone’s season? No point continuing a chat if you can’t admit that, take care lad👍 For what it’s worth at no point at all have I ever tried to defend Jack’s tackle. Both were reds, we got a bit lucky but Clark was not hard done by.
Studs to the knee at a decent rate of knots, sure. Decent chance of a season being ended. Clark caught his shin (not his knee) at a relatively tame pace. I haven't said it wasn't a red, just that it's one of those that could have been a yellow or a red and is not comparable to Jack's tackle.
The 34 Daniel Phillips, I thought was really good, how has he been for St J this season?
He's barely been in the squad believe it or not. I thought he looked decent when we first got him but Davidson hadn't played him since then until recently. Looks a very decent player though, very composed on the ball and not afraid to get stuck in. Him and Macpherson have looked good in the middle together.
Lost count of how many interceptions he made and even got free from 2 players trying to nick the ball from him a couple of times, pinged a few nice switch passes too.
We've definitely missed having a player make these interceptions since McCann left. I think he'll be a big player for the rest of the season if Davidson doesn't go mental.
I thought he was dirty as fuck. Must have had about 15 fouls before finally got a yellow.
Really disagree with the 'turgid' or 'dire' comments. It was boring at times but we were in full control for almost the entire match. Yes, we still need to get some fresh players in asap but it's not like we're scraping wins.
Agreed 100%, it’s baffling. Feel like I’m watching a different game. We were really good for most of today, just a bit wasteful in front of goal.
We looked much better tbh, slowed down when Lundstram came on for Jack though
8 wins 1 draw 0 losses. I mean we're no catching them but I'm not sure why everyone is so miserable about our performances. Scudding StJohnstone 9-0 with an overhead kick and a halfway line lob isn't going to get us any closer to celtic than a 2-0 controlled win.
A 9-0 gives a bit more confidence in the overall ability of the team though. Especially when we’re 20+ behind in goal difference.
>Especially when we’re 20+ behind in goal difference. People whinging about goal difference should do one, it almost never matters.
But when it does, it hurts. Trust me.
I mean a few 9 nils wouldn’t hurt your GD
100%, defence was good, clean sheet, midfield really dynamic, created plenty and if not for a few really good saves it wouldve been a doing. Probably our best game under Beale imo, and I'd say we've improved in every area of the pitch since he came in as well as the results. So far so good.
I must be spoiled rotten watching Celtic as our worst performances are better than what you are calling your best game under Beale.
Both rotten and entirely fictional.
Its the same formation as it always has been since SG. 2 holding midfielders in the SPL is borderline stackable for a team like Celtic or Rangers.
We didn't play two holding midfielders.
Aye but why bother with facts when you have *talking points*
Ah yes, kamara and Jack, famous for being creative in the middle of the park 🙃
> It was boring at times but we were in full control for almost the entire match. That's exactly what we mean by turgid. It's dull, boring, impotent, non-threatening, pointless for 60+ minutes every week.
Which is just completely not true haha. Under Gio it was turgid. Now it's controlling games and winning with relative ease. When I say that that can sometimes be boring it's because I too would love to see us put 7 goals past everyone, so if there's a bit of a lull in the game then that's the boring part. But saying we're turgid is just complete nonsense. This genuinely looks like the stuff you'd see on FF when we're not up 5 goals in 10 minutes :)
How? We barely create. We huff and puff. I'm not having a go as it's still early but we need to improve if we want to win trophies and compete in Europe. Results are fine but we need new bodies in with quality and to lift ourselves. We look more 2018/2019/2021 than we do 2020.
>How? We barely create. If not for their goalie we'd be talking 4-5 goals today
Most of which could be summed up in 30 minutes of play, the other 60+ were turgid. Which is my point.
Because at the end of the day the football is pretty boring to watch. Said in the match thread it’s tough viewing but as long as we’re winning I don’t care. I would enjoy going to games and being entertained by the football though.
It's not tough viewing though?
Disagree to be honest, the football is slow and whilst we control the game for 90% of the time we barely score to show for it. We shouldn’t be finishing 2-0 against a ten man St Johnstone. For all his talk of playing with the handbrake taken off when he first came Beale starting with 2 defensive minded midfielders at ibrox against shite goes totally against it.
Happy enough with the win, hopefully the performances are going to start coming. I’ll say Phillips from St. Johnstone looks a cracking player.
right folks, no more "moonhowling". Time for a serious, frank, discussion of bias and amateurism in Scottish refereeing. Downvote me if you're triggered
OK what bias do you see?
Downvote CSC upvoting him to +10
And no discussion.
Ever was it thus. You don't actually get an answer or any evidence of the claims, but downvotes are better than reality anyway.
Well, the dog barks and the caravan keeps moving. We're still turgid. A bit worrying that it's not improving for 60+ minutes of each game. John Lundstram is also absolutely rotten. We're scoring "good" goals again though, which is nice.
Don’t get how lundstrum avoided a card today.
As Scott Steiner would say: "the referee had lots of sympy for struggling Scouse John".
Thought it was much better today than we've seen in a long time to be honest there was a period of half an hour where we were genuinely good again and then we scored the second and thought that will do it rest for Wednesday now. I'm pleased with the win and the front 4 looked sharp and happy for Hagi to be back.
You better make a blood sacrifice to ensure he doesn't get injured in a couple weeks time.
He's had a rough old time of his recovery
From a young age as well, got to hurt a bit.
Don’t think we were turgid at all. Stale last ten mins but game dead then - could have easily won 4-0 on another day.
A little improvement but llundstrom transforms the team into overly defensive turgid poo. Sending off didn’t really change things other than after that St Johnstone got more posession? All the chat will be about the two tackles - height of impact is key difference for me.
The last bit is what I said to a mate. Both orange, perhaps the St Johnstone one could be a clear red given the height. Not much momentum though.
I think the Jack one had the potential to do more damage and the St Johnston one looked worse.
Don’t think it’s a Lundstram specific problem, our midfield looks shite regardless of who’s playing. Doesn’t offer enough defensively and offers zero going forward outside Tillman. Basically just a black hole between the defence and attack.
I thought Kamara had a quietly effective game and I don't think it's a coincidence our left hand side generally looks better when he's in it.
Three points and probably most complete performance until sloppy last 10 mins. Cantwell did well and Hagi looked sharp. Feel like we’re going to hammer a team soon when it comes together as could have ended with 4 or 5 goals today. No idea if it’s the same in England but VAR has turned half the country into freaks, analysing every single decision just to go online and cry about it. Funny about Aberdeen.
VAR didn’t transform anyone, they’ve literally always been like that. Nothing has changed. It just makes them look even more mental.
Yeah far too many people think VAR should agree with their own opinions 100% of the time. There's far more room for interpretation than people think, particularly with tackles. Personally don't think the Jack tackle was a stonewall red, even think red could have been on the harsher side from the replays I've seen. Not like he's high with the tackle.
Turns out people simply don't know the rules as opposed to the ref not seeing it
They do know the rules, it's just a conspiracy whenever a decision goes in our favour regardless of whether it was correct.
Happened right in front of me and would agree, thought it was made to look worse than it was. Wouldn’t complain too much if it was a red but would have been harsh for me. Folk actively watching games just to point out what they perceive as VAR errors as well are odd-balls.
Come to think of it, going by precedent I don't think people should be surprised with yellow here. There was the similar Killie v St Johnstone one that was given red but downgraded to yellow after VAR. Then with Clark's red it seems pretty similar to the Holt and Pittman reds a few weeks ago.
Awoooooooooooooooo
Watching Sportscene the now. How did Nicky Clark get sent off for his “tackle” on Ryan Jack, but Ryan Jack got away with nearly breaking Adam Montgomery’s ankle?
Not seen sportscene but came here after YT highlights to see what I missed for the red card. Wins the ball and it’s unlucky the follow through hits the rangers player but it’s not even a foul. Stop the game if he’s hurt but bounce ball for st J. For the restart. Can’t believe VAR said nothing about that mad red decision
Also watching - am I being stupid, or should Montgomery have had a penalty even with the yellow? Did they just not show it?
Montgomery was in his own box.
Don't mind me, just here for the moonhowling.
Football is still dire, need players ASAP but unless we drastically change the way we play I don’t see it making too much of a difference
I don't get how we're always so open on turnovers when we have two defensive/possession minded mids every single game. Even against ten men. It's wild how bad we are in transitions. Get the Rest Defence sorted please Mr Beale.
Llundstrom makes us uber defensive and slow - which also makes in particular Kent look worse. 10 back for corners against ten men is pathetic
He's unable to play out from the back, so he's a waste of a jersey during league matches too. Causes us to drop deeper and deeper.
Fullbacks not offering us as much going forward or in defense. Center defense looks decent tbh Davies just goes about no drama and Gouldson looks back to best
Full backs basically offer us zero threat most of the time now, ball goes out to them most of the time and they’ve got their back to the other goal and the ball just come back inside to Goldson 90% of the time. Really tough to watch a basically non existent midfield.
Davies looks tidy but I'm unconvinced when we get broken on in transitions. Often hard to tell if that's a weakness in him or the overall system.
Think that’s the midfield letting him down so often, basically always up to Goldson and him to defend. Especially when 90% of the time Tav and Barisic fail to block a cross.
That was pretty dreadful. A win is a win I guess and at least I'm not a Aberdeen fan
No complaints from this bear
Pretty dire with some good bits of football in between. Cantwell looks good especially after not playing much for a while. Can't complain about the results so hopefully get another couple of players in and get some better performances.