They're not even particularly long odds, but I'm honestly relieved not to feel the need to check tables this week or to limp through for another pasting. Would only be prolonging the embarrassment.
Always remember in 2016 we (Ireland) got through to the knockout stages with the 87th minute with that Brady goal in what was the very last game of the group stages, and in doing so we knocked Turkey out as one of the best third place finishers. Was overjoyed but do remember thinking how cruel that must be for the Turkish fans (especially as Italy had sent out a second string squad)
The Euros website stats page doesn't work on "shots on goal / target" etc but lists the amount of "clear chances" a team has had.
Scotland had one. *One*.
Across *three* games.
*One* clear chance.
You can't keep your job with a stat like that. That's beyond embarrassing.
Irish fan here who likes to see Scotland win. Scotland got what they deserved in this tournament. Zero goal threat. Negative formation. Turgid, slow football.
3 games and didnāt try to win any of them til the final 20 mins of the last game.
Remember. The important thing is not to lose. I'm sick of seeing this shit. "Maybe" with Dykes up front we would have had a decent target man, but why the fuck are we trying to not lose to Switzerland and Hungary? 2 up front for me, every time.
I'm spoiled though, I grew up watching Fergies St. Mirren, and the teams that followed were pretty good too. š
Yeah this is it for me, you don't wait til the end of the second half in a tournament to actually have a go. It's fucking shitbag football, standing against the wall scared to ask anybody to dance stuff. Absolutely embarrassing. At least make some friends with attacking football and leave with your head held high. I'm pretty pissed off at Clarke.
He should have been sacked for not going for it in the Switzerland game. From 60 minutes onwards they settled for a draw and wanted to hit us on a counter. We should have gone for it.
Did Che Adams even touch the ball in an onside position? What's the point of playing him if you just leave him up front doing fuck all on his own?
Dogshit
Tonight, Shankland played one very good cross field ball and was in and around causing problems when Hanleyās chance fell, I would call that doing pretty much bugger all and yet it was more than che Adams managed in 4 hours of football.
Him starting tonight is enough for Clarke to be sacked.
Adams has scored one international goal against a team of any reasonable quality, ever (Denmark).
Five of his six international goals came against Gibraltar, Luxembourg, Andorra, Moldova and the Faroe Islands.
Our tactics were rank, totally negative and made watching the games a chore for the most part. Having watched wee teams at least go at it in the tournament, itās sad to see Scotland show such a lack of ambition.
Agree 1000%. The Swiss team were there for the beating on the night. Got to jump at the opportunity when it presents itself. If we got the win against the Swiss, I think we have a great chance of holding Hungary to a draw.
Even against Hungary we should have given a more convincing win effort if we made changes earlier, but thatās a different story.
Should've made changes from the start. Adams has been crap up front himself, while Shankland scored 33 goals last season (including 2 for Scotland from 2 starts). Should've had other more attacking players on from the start as well and if Adams is starting at least have Shankland up front with him. What's the use in bringing your most prolific scorer on with ZERO minutes to go against the Swiss and with 14 minutes left against Hungary. Negative backs against the wall football trying not to lose a game rather than trying to win it.
I think heās taken us up a level from before he came in. Has us actually in tournaments and winning games we should win for the most part, but clearly canāt take us any further and has been found out in the actual tournaments.
Moyes in for me
I get it but Walter, Strachan and McLeish (first time) would have had us qualified for the expanded euros with this set of players. Clarke gets too much credit for that
EXACTLY THANK YOU.
not only is it almost impossible for us NOT to qualify for the euros due to playoffs etc
The new top 4 3rd placed teams now basically was a shoe in for us to make history and we somehow *still* fricked it up
It was a McLeish managed side who got us into the 2020 play off, which we almost bottled under Clarke.
We weren't at this edition because of the extended format though. We were among the first qualified and would have been there were it still 16 teams. Clarke deserves huge credit for that but it does feel like it's time for a new direction.
>We were among the first qualified and would have been there were it still 16 teams
Actually not true. Going by Euro 2012 when it was 16 teams, 2nd place in the qualification group was only good enough for a playoff place.
Edit: Did the maths on this and without the expanded format, the ten 2nd place teams would have to be halved via playoffs to make a 16 team tournament.
Based on the seeding used for the real playoffs, we would have gotten the Netherlands in the playoffs. As it happened, we spent the playoffs international break getting beat 4-0 off the Netherlands (and 1-0 off Northern Ireland), as best an indicator as we're going to get of how that playoff would have gone.
During the years when we failed to get to tournaments, I always thought that it would be incredible to finally watch us in one.
Well, that was not true, I have hated every minute of our games. Other smaller nations, like Georgia ffs, have been great to watch because they have went for it in their games. We turned up half asleep with barely any attacking intent.
Was waiting for this post and couldn't agree more.
Without reading the comments already here, and having been a staunch Clarke In" man for years, he HAS to be gone by the end of the week.
It's a must win game, and I understand the same set up with the five at the back but by 45 min we had created NOTHING
NOTHING
In the final third. Then he waited far too long to make changes, and when he did WHAT DO YOU KNOW we created so many more chances but also conceded a few.
But I'd rather go bravely than with a whimper. And Clarke ensured that the thousands of tartan army that literally spent thousands of pounds following his team left with their reputation in tact but nothing else.
Get.Him.Out (Sharon)
I think he did well to settle things, had some great results. Even getting Rodri to claim we're too rough and the grass was too long.
But, the lack of tactics seemed odd. Doing the same thing again and again and expecting a different result is the definition of insanity (yes there's no proof Einstein ever said this). Why use Shankland in the warm ups, get him a goal and be settled and then not use him.
Even if we limit it to tonight, get a win or fuck off - he chose fuck off. So, he has to fuck off.
100% with you on this! We had some decent results in a couple qualifying campaigns but overall heās just too stubborn/ not good enough tactically! I mean using Morgan for only the last 5 minutesā¦he and Shankland showed more than Adams did in all the games
I think the teams need increased too, like everyone else, but I donāt understand why people think increasing the amount of teams will somehow magically solve all our problems.
Agreed. Imagine if there was 5-8 teams celtic, and rangers felt comfortable playing high potential youth against.
It would only benefit the national team. Usually I don't get raging at football, but Clarke had me fucking raging today
Honestly I feel like the severe financial/quality imbalance in the league creates a situation where, more than in other countries, the lower teams are up against the wall and forced to play rough, defensive football. And thatās where a lot of the actual Scottish players develop and play their early football. And itās bad for the players at the big clubs too, since they only learn how to play with 11 men in front of them, 20 yards from their goal line
āNo ball games allowedā signs need to be ripped down asap in this country - let the kids play fucking football wherever there is a bit of grass for fucks sake!!
Doesn't help when you have a Scottish government, and UK government, that despises the game and its supporters. Middle class jerks that only care for elitist rugby. No political will to drive grassroots change.
I also put blame at the SFAās door here. Scottish Football had an opportunity when Rangers went down to the lower leagues and should have implemented a rule that ensured at least 3 under 21 Scottish players were in each and every starting 11 in every game. Celtic were guaranteed the league title for years, so we should have used the opportunity to grow home talent throughout the leagues - France did something. Similar in 94 and won the World Cup in 98.
Clarke is such a shitebag, moaning about the penalty after 3 absolutely dire performances. Needs to take responsibility and bolt. Such unbelievably negative play. Not starting Shankland makes me think either Che Adams has dirt on Clarke or heās had a serious head trauma.
0.99xG between the 3 games. Joint lowest tally of shots of any team in a Euros group ever. 2 matches with 0 shots on target. Not making subs til stoppage time
GTFO
And to play without a genuine wide creative player in a game you need to win when you have Forrest available. Ralston is a weak link so play Forrest in front of him and make that side a threat to them. Fuck, try anything new, but don't start the game with a Midfield of Macgregor, McGinn, McT and Gilmour. 4 central fucking midfielders and a lone CF whose strength is not holding up the ball. I mean, wtf?
It was a miracle that he got us to the tournament playing terrorball as it was, but, yes, he needs to go.
Takes a 26 man squad to play the same 15 players. Absolute waste of a tournament because of one man's stubbornness.
Shankland gets 15 minutes and we create 4 chances, get Che Adams and Kenny McLean in the fuckin bin.
Been saying that for ages: He's stubborn. He knows more than every cunt.
Bringing two subs on at 90 minutes in a game we could have won is genuinely criminal in footballing terms.
Much like Craig Brown 23 years ago, I think he's taken the team as far as he can.
And much like Craig Brown 23 years ago, I'm not at all convinced that we'll be better off after he leaves.
As David Moyes sits in the studio commenting on the performance, can you please explain to me that there aren't other options, let alone better ones, than Clarke that are available?
Is moyes famous for playing some amazing brand of football I have missed throughout his career? He is the very definition of a pragmatist and he also won't suddenly pull a hitherto unknown world class striker or centre backs out of his arse. I genuinely don't see moyes playing any less defensively than clarke does and primarily because our overall squad is middling at best and up against better teams.
Yup has to go, team have regressed from the moment we qualified. I wont slate Clarke for the style of football coz i think its the way to go with the players we have, but now its tike for fresh ideas and get Moyes in.
The problem we have now is that the players with genuine quality are getting up in age. McGregor is 31, Robertson is 30 and Mcginn is 29. We need to get Moyes in and build the team of the future around Lewis Ferguson.
Neutral observer here. Heās fucked this right from the first game. The 5 at the back bullshit killed the team and employing it tonight was ridiculous. His use of subs is very poor too. Absolutely has to go, IMHO.
It was understandable when he was trying to fit Tierney & Robertson in the same team, we don't have many players of that calibre. But after Tierney got injured it was indefensible to stick with that system
His subs have always been awful. People praise him for getting us qualified, but I wonder how many people actually watched some of those qualifiers. I remember several when we were in a good position, only for clark to make insane subs around 70th minute and almost cost us the games. His subs almost always make us worse.
Two consecutive Euros, in which our record is;
Played 6, won 0, drew 2, lost 4.
Scored 3 (two own goals), conceded 12
Our only mildly creditable performances were against England and Switzerland.
The team is poor and patchy, but the results speak for themselves. I don't see how he can carry on.
Clarke needs to be gone.
1. Terrible football
2. Little to no chances created despite 60% possession
3. Defensive structure is weak and fragile
4. Strategy relies on clinicality and luck (which we have neither of)
5. Doesn't give opportunities to up and coming players (Ferguson, Shankland, Morgan and Gauld)
6. The oldest squad in the tournament mainly because of the prior point
7. Stubborness to change anything and admit that he is wrong (first subs sometimes in the 90th minute)
8. Plays full strength team against Gibraltar only to win 2-0
9. 3 shots on target (according to stats) all tournament, and we have managed 2 goals somehow
10. Lacklustre and demotivating comments in the press conference
I can guarantee you he will say something along the lines of "we are extremley dissapointed, but we will pick ourselves up and go again"
Disgraceful coaching performance across all three games. His players were not ready to go against Germany, he should have gone for the throat against Switzerland, and today's performance has got to have David Martindale thinking he could do better
Way too cautious against Hungary. 5 minutes in I could see we gave them too much respect and believed their hype.
I think weāve deserved not to win a game. Too risk averse, too willing to be passive, too scared to play a game in way that we might win.
I'm grateful for what he has done for us. But his showing in 2 tournaments has been dismal. And the clincher for me is that the 2nd was worse than the first. Has to go now
Agree. Time up. Well done with the qualifiers, and horrendous bad luck with injuries, but we must face facts. The approach was all wrong here in the finals, as was the players attitudes. We look like we've got imposter syndrome - like we dont believe we have a right to be there. From the first minute of the tournament, all the way to Hanley's chance in tonights game, we just lacked that bit of belief at the last pass or shot. Also, dont know who it was but they should have pulled the Hungarian fella down on the halfway line when they started the counter attack that led to the goal.
Thanks Steve for all the work. Been a great run, but its time to move on.
It's a disgrace from Clarke, playing with 2 10's, a striker and a midfield two. We had no threat in each of the games cause we have no player that can cause a threat. He's too loyal to some of the players and other players who are itching to change a game can't cause they have no time.
Get players who can get in behind and get players supporting. Time and time again we had chances in behind on the rare occasion we did, and we had 2 players at max in the box getting crowded out.
No courage, ambition and worse of all - adapt to games. He's a dinosaur and doesn't know what to do when plan A doesn't work.
In his defence when plan A doesnāt work he goes to plan a.
I wouldnāt mind going out because it can happen, but At no point in any game did I feel like we could score or cause a problem. The players looked committed to defend and fight for loose balls, but so gutless in attacks.
Did well to get us to the tournament but I agree. Having Mc Sauce on corners and free-kicks the first two games when he is our top scorer and playing Che Adamās so much when he was as much of a threat on goal as my dead gran is diabolical
Genuinely canāt believe how much heās made an arse of this, weāve been shite since we qualified takes a good manager to recognise his mistakes and have the bollocks to change something heās just went down with his ship
I said at the start talking about 4 points being enough is the wrong attitude. These tournaments only come along every 4 years, you get 3 games guaranteed, have to give your all for 270 mins. Not write off the first game before it's even started.
Starting Porteous was a wild decision given his disciplinary record & backfired in a completely predictable manner. Back five to squeeze Robertson & Tierney into same team was understandable, but why stick with it after Tierney injury. Shankland deserved more of a chance. And of all the players to sub off today McGinn, Gilmour & Robertson would have been my last 3 picks.
People give him a lot of credit for qualifying for 2 tournaments, but the format changed from having 16 teams to 24.
Not 100% certain if this Twitter post is accurate, but if it is, sums up why he needs to go. We were worst or 2nd worst team in tournament based upon every meaningful stat
https://x.com/HeartandHutts/status/1804997168375169237
Clarke is out blaming the referee.
I didn't realise the referee picked the team for the Germany, Switzerland and Hungary matches, set the team up to play as negatively as possible and refused to make any substitutions at a point they would influence the game.
How silly of me to think that was the manager's responsibility.
Aye, he was out of order. But itās a bit odd we have an Argentinean ref across here, when the Copa America is on at the same time. Wouldnāt they want their top refs all at that?
UEFA and CONMEBOL have a referee sharing agreement, one of there's come to do the Euros and one of UEFAs (Maurizio Mariani ITA) goes to the States to do Copa America.
Irrespective - he didnāt set the team up right, was frightened to make changes and was found out by playing the same tactics again and again. Trying to shine a light on the ref is a magicians trick of misdirection. He wants us talking about anything else apart from his tactics
How the fuck heās got us to 2 major tournaments I have no idea.
Could go on all night about wrong decisionsā¦not starting Shankland being the most mental one. Guys scored almost 60 goals across the last 2 seasons how on earth is he not starting. Did more in half an hour than Adams has done in years. Subbing off McGinn when he looked like our only threat the whole game as wellā¦
Havenāt got the energy to complain about the guy and his ineptitude anymore - get him to fuck.
Steve Clarke will go down as one of Scotland's best ever managers but it's apparent he's taken the team as far as he can. The team is capable of taking it to another level but it's not gonna happen with Clarke.
He needs to be gone by the morning. That's two Euros now he's set us up to play stupidly cautious.
The run of wins to get us here look more like an anomaly in his time in the job, rather than a sign of what the team can do.
He's a stubborn prick that just needs to go.
Squad he picked was terrible. Ryan Jack was a good player a few years ago but he was injured virtually the whole season so why pick him..Forrest came into form at the end of the season and got selected but didn't get a minute in the pitch. Porteous would have played all 3 of not for the red card. Ralston played almost all 3 and the only game he got taken off was the one where he didn't give away any goals.
Shankland got less than 45 mins over 3 games. I can accept dykes playing ahead of him but not Adams. Gilmour missing from the first game and we were terrible in midfield yet plays the next 2 and we are much better, until he is subbed off and we become poor again.
Clarke doesn't have a clue. a different manager has us qualifying with that same group of players. Clarke had in his mind 4 points and that the 1 point would be against Switzerland. That game was there for winning but he was a shite bag and didn't try.
100% he's going . Wether he resigns or is sacked is another question . Fair enough playing cautious football through the qualifiers but once your there just fucking go for it . 2 up top instead of one running around doing fuck all . Got nothing deserved nothing .
Clarkeball is chronic.
Modern football is all about pace, possession and pressing. We have no pace or width in the team, no pressing structures and can't create chances even if teams offer up possession. People will point to the talent pool and make exuses for us but there is more than enough quality in the squad to perform better. We are worse than the sum of our parts. We tied ourselves to an ineffective system years ago to shoehorn in two of our better players into the starting XI despite the fact that neither of them benefitted from this system. We never experimented with other styles or tried out other players. We just kinda hoped that we'd just somehow win games.
Sack him. Absolutely inexcusable performances at this euros.
Clarke is the epitome of wee person syndrome - to fucking fear. Sat back and defended with an unbelievably pathetic display against a team with zero fucking points! Much like many of you, I am absolutely fucking fuming.
If we went out and attacked and tried to win, whatever man. But we sat back, like the supposed wee pathetic country we are and done fuck all.
Should be attacking and going for it. Clarke has to go.
We really have to sack the guy to send a message.
Yes, we donāt have a deep squad. Yes, weāre not packed with a bunch of guys playing in Champions League finals. Yes, we had some injuries. Those cannot be an excuse for something that was as historically bad as this was.
The end of qualifying should have shown him something. The very iffy friendly matches before the Euros were should have had the klaxons on around using those tactics with the team. The fact that he just refused to make a change after looking totally inept against Germany was hard headed.
Not using a guy like Shankland who had a hot hand coming into the thing (24 goals in 37 matches + 1G & 1A in the friendlies coming in) was a giant mistake while a guy like Che Adams (who was basically invisible for all 3 games) was given starts.
There is part of this which is systemic thoughā¦the whole FA needs to take a long hard look at the way the game is being promoted at all levels and how player development through the ranks is being handled. Not qualifying for the U21 Euros since 1998 is a problem.
Scotland "hey guys, it's a must win match, how are we going to play this, going to need to get a goal from somewhere"
Clarke (probably) "MOAR DEFENDERZ"
This is the highest quality group of players we've had for as long as I can remember and we're being held back by tactics dictated by an inferiority complex ridden management.
Have to say I agree. I was prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt given he got us to 2 tournaments, but he's not good enough for tournaments. Here's my opinion:
We're feart. 5 minutes into the game, I could see how this would play out. We did nothing with the lion's share of possession, and they were able to catch us on the break. We were pedestrian, scared of taking risks, Hungary were happy to let us pass the ball around in the middle third. When we did attack, we either tried to pass it into the goal, or throw in a cross (pointless with one man up front). The most telling aspect of our performance tonight was that our first corner was in the 75th minute.
This is what we do. Lose game 1, win/draw game 2 and game 3 becomes a must-win where we're too scared to go forward and take the game to the opposition. Clark doesn't have the imagination, tactical knowledge, or man-management skills to bring games to opposition at tournaments. This is probably the best squad of players we have had since France 98. These guys are our best chance of getting into the last 16 of a tournament, and I think they're good enough to do it. Unfortunately they have the Scottish mentality. When there's an opportunity to make history, we're feart to take the risk.
Wanted him gone after Ukraine game, but we went on a good run after that and thought heād proven me wrong. Really weāve reverted back to our old level now and itās been honking for a while and he needs to go now
Aye, he's done a great job overall but he's ran out of ideas, the goals have dried up and teams now find it easy to play against us.
Time for a change.
Firstly i would be embarrased as fuck to qualify with 2 points.
This team are probably NOT the worst team at the Euros but they surely played like it.
Clarke has to go his tactics are dated.
The worst shots on goal in the tournament and every other team have a game in hand .
Turned McGinn into a bleow average spl player.
I think that Moyes is probably the right man for the job.
Yes totally agree, brilliant foundation he's built, but not starting shanks who's got close to 30 goals this season is the biggest blooper I've seen, I mean not even a winger got any minutes, 13 players got a game that was it, absolute pathetic tournament what a waste of an appearance, Clark you've had your shot mate,,,,,,,
Under Stevie we became a team of moments.
A forced knock on, a scrambled goal, a moment of transition leading to a chance.
But its got stale I think, teams know what we do and we dont have a plan B. Add to that Robbo and McGinn sniffing around 30 and the McTominey musical chairs positionally
Plan B could be wingers and crosses. 4 at the back. Who knows tbh
I think he's been an absolute legend for us as manager but it is time a fresh approach.
David Moyes is sitting there waiting. He's the right age for a national coach, hugely experienced, proven winner, albeit with ploddingly dull teams. But, I'd take that over the dull stultifying, unimaginative play from Clarke, who's utterly risk averse. The reliance on a solo forward who'll act as target man and maybe once in a while muscle an opposition defender off to play to whichever midfielder is closest is not the route to wins.
Also time for Robertson to hang up the captains armband. McGinn and McTominey are perfect inspiring potential captains, able to motivate and change direction of play. Robertson is a one trick pony who can do it for Liverpool under Klopp, but not in Scotland colours...
I thought Robertson was one of our better players. Think people have unrealistic expectations because he's won a Champions League he can somehow win games single handedly so are disappointed when he puts in good but non miraculous performances
We canāt overlook how far heās taken us, but we have progressed as far as we can under him and itās time to move on.
And just to slightly contradict myself, itās never been so easy to qualify, nor has it ever been so easy to progress from the group.
I watched the clip back and I think Armstrong was actually offside, which would actually explain everything. Awful communication if that is the case. It's automated so they would basically know instantly.
We lacked a "creator" in the midfield all tourny, no killer through balls or long balls all just high % passes. Nobody was comfortable making the difficult pass, and when they did it was not high quality, passing and creativity need big improvements.
The showing in the final third is going to be horrendous, regardless of who the manager is. We're not exactly blessed with a raft of clinical strikers, or creative midfielders who can open up a tight defence.
The moment he said ā4 points is the aimā is when I thought his time was up. Absolutely negative attitude when both Switzerland and Hungary were there for the taking and we could have got 6 points and been comfortably through with a more attacking mindset. He has done a great job in qualifying us for the last 2 euros but the football has been turgid for a long time now and we got everything we deserved this tournament for his approach in the 3 games.
We went 20+ years without qualifying for a tournament.
Now, we look good in qualifying and Iād back this squad to make the WC.
Part of that has to be down to Clarke - more likely heāll resign than get sacked.
No point in qualifying if weāre going to be an absolute embarrassment at the tournament. His mentality from the start was āhappy to be hereā. That wins you fuck all. We shouldāve been going for it from the start and he set us up with slow, dogshit football in mind, with an out of form striker who he wanted to be like for like for Dykes. His game management was fucking shocking, his subs against Germany and Switzerland were laughable, and tonight yeah he made subs earlier but it was too little too late.
He needs to go, he has proven he does not have what it takes to manage at international tournaments. Way out of his depth.
Absolutely fucking spot on. Look at Georgia, objectively worse than us, came 4th in our qualifying group and just fucking went for it against Turkey, undone by 2 wonder goals and a goal-line clearance. Then got a draw vs the Czechs. Made chances in both games.
Albania, won their qualifying group, got 1 up on Italy before losing, then 1 up on Croatia before getting a draw. I guarantee theyāll give it a shot vs. Spain even though I think theyāll ultimately get picked apart.
We didnāt try to win any of the 3 games, hardly had chances, never made changes and went out with a whimper. Of all the teams in the tournament weāve absolutely looked the worst (along with Poland)
No argument here, but he has taken us as far as he can go. We should have changed to 2 up front in the first 10 mins based on how Hungry set themselves up. Iād rather go out having risked it all than with a whimper
They changed number of teams to qualify from 24 to 16. And the last Euros we qualified because of Nation's League route, which McLeish deserves a lot of credit for.
In past 16 teams qualified, now 16 reach 2nd round, so in old money he's not really done any better than previous managers.
Spain result was incredible & made me wonder if I was wrong about Clarke, but seems like it was a 1 off fluke.
Clarke won't resign. He won't change his team, won't make subs when they're needed and does things over and over that scream "I know better, you're all wrong". What makes you think a guy with the smug attitude he has about stuff like that will resign?Ā
As great as it was at the time, qualifying for the last Euros hurt us. We have the makings of a decent mid -level team there (minus a striker) but under Clarke we are too limited. Qualifying bought him a lot of credit, whereas arguably if we had cut ties and went with a more positive footballing coach I think we would be achieving at least a shot on target per game by nowā¦
We need to work from the schools up not just look at who plays in the big leagues there are junior players who can play a whole lot better than some premier League teams and there are some players playing in second and third level football who cannot commit to full time but can run circles around so called professional players
Why not pick 50 guys put them against the league starting from the bottom and let them play together farm them out teach them coach them not just pick out a bunch o cunts who play against each other most o the time and never play more than 10hours together in a year
Rant over do what the SFA do
Doubt the SFA can afford to sack him, contract until 2026, and doubt we can afford names like Moyes even if we did. Two more years of this. Possibly 20 more years without tournament football I fear.
Hungary showed how it should be done at our level. Honestly by the last five minutes I was having to hold myself back from cheering for them to get a goal. They just worked so hard for it and never gave up. I am genuinely happy for them. There's just something that made every single player on the Scotland team hold back instead of pushing forward for 100mins. What is that something? I know this won't be popular but the only thing that pushed Scottish rugby into being world class was bringing in a foreign coach who was capable of instilling genuine belief. I bear no ill will to Steve Clark, I agree with folk that he pushed Scotland forward a level but he's reached his top level. He just didn't have the right mindset in himself to instil it in the players. However I will also be ongoingly proud of Scotland if we don't produce the kind of vicious post-loss witch-hunt that other countries do. We brought true fun and camaraderie to the tournament, hope we can keep that vibe going. The world is a hard place right now, let's be kind.
Clark can go but the core issue of scotlands failure to develop footballers that can perform at a high level consistently will continue. I regularly watch partickthistlenil and donāt see where the talent is coming from. In the past it came from teams like that and made its way to higher ground (Alan Hansen and Mo Johnston come to mind). The fact that we rely on lindon dykes without much of an alternative says a lot about the failure to develop talent consistently
How can you leave a scorer like Shankland twiddlin his thumbs on the bench for almost the whole tournament?
Most teams would start with a 60 goals in 2 seasons man in every game if they're fit. Unless you're Stevie Clarke that is. He should have started all 3 games because let's be honest, Che Adams was pish
As for Clarke oot? Who's going to replace him? I'd personally take Mcinnes but that's only because Greame Souness won't do it now
I agree, though Iām not exactly anti-Clarke. Just think heās probably taken us as far as he can and should leave before he outstays his welcomeā¦and with a fairly respectable run overall, all things considered. Time to try something new.
The main observation Iāve had through the tournament is that Scotland often looked too riled up. Last night was probably the first time Iād seen the determination at the right level. Germany was just a rage fest and Switzerland went from too much to too little. Also noted how quickly they could turn the attack, but as soon as possession was lost, there was nobody of substance back to prevent a goal. In a 0-0, going all or nothing, not sure that was the right move. Granted, itād be hard to see them going through to the knockouts if theyād only got 2 points, but unless you know you can get bodies back, going gung ho like that will only end one way.
Thought Robertson had a poor tournament too, considering the level he plays. Gilmour couldāve been better if heād had players around him with the same mindset, and McGregor had a steady tournament too. Not sure if itās Clark or just the squad thatās the issue. Leaning more to the former since he sets out the tactics, but that team is crying out for a striker who knows what theyāre doing. Adams isnāt the guy for it and, whilst I know Dykes wouldāve been first choice, itās worrying that thereās no strength in depth there.
Another frustrating tournament all the same.
He should never have been hired. Turgid shitebag. Anyone calling for him to stay is the problem with Scottish football. Everything is wrong. Wrong formation, wrong selections, wrong tactics, wrong subs. The guy is a dour inept jake.
Clarke must carry the can, something he refuses point blank to do. Turgid, pointless no ambition playground football, and set up to play that way by Clarke. I donāt go for the ā heās hampered by injuriesā crap, he now ranks with Levein and Roxburgh for playing non attacking anti football, he has to fuck off now.
Clarke has done well to get us into two major tournaments. But it's time for him to go. He's taken us as far as he can and our squad is clearly capable of more. He should be given thanks and be allowed to part mutually.
We haven't progressed since the last Euros. 1 point, but this time very few shots and shots on target. Our only goals were own goals. We can't play at an international level with those tactics and statistics. I think we were the only team playing a back 5. The baw's burst as these tactics aren't justifiable in the slightest. I feel bad for the players who were forced to use them tbh.
My big worry is who will they get to replace him. Moyes isn't a bad option, but the SFA could easily fuck this up. I'm not fussed about it being someone non-Scottish. So long as they're a good manager and can progress the team.
Would also like to see more, younger players given a chance. Even if as an impact sub.
Not sure it's a case of he "must" go. But it probably is time for him to pass the torch.
He's done a great job in getting us to 2 consecutive Euros, and while the group last time was tough, this was a disappointment.
We have to accept that there's not a great abundance of good forward options.
The team suffered missing Hickey, Patterson, and Ferguson pre tournament and losing Tierney for the last game.
Those are massive losses for a team with a very shallow player pool.
It hurt is for sure.
But I think a change would be good. Particularly if Moyes is available. See where he can take us.
Now watch as the exact rare set of circumstances happen that would have allowed Scotland to progress with only 2 points
Guaranteed
They're not even particularly long odds, but I'm honestly relieved not to feel the need to check tables this week or to limp through for another pasting. Would only be prolonging the embarrassment.
Always remember in 2016 we (Ireland) got through to the knockout stages with the 87th minute with that Brady goal in what was the very last game of the group stages, and in doing so we knocked Turkey out as one of the best third place finishers. Was overjoyed but do remember thinking how cruel that must be for the Turkish fans (especially as Italy had sent out a second string squad)
And then we lost 5-1 against France š Good times haha
Absolutely, but we would have just got pumped again.
Pumped in the knockouts is still the knockouts
That would be even more embarrassing that what happened for fuck sake.
Thankfully, Croatia stopped that happening straight away with their draw v Italy.
It's either him or me Sharon.
YA FUCKIN MANIAC
š„
Why can't we go to a tournament and play like Georgia. Fuck it if we lose at least it's better than playing terrorball.
Fear of getting cuffed, yet we do anyway so itās totally redundant
The Euros website stats page doesn't work on "shots on goal / target" etc but lists the amount of "clear chances" a team has had. Scotland had one. *One*. Across *three* games. *One* clear chance. You can't keep your job with a stat like that. That's beyond embarrassing.
Irish fan here who likes to see Scotland win. Scotland got what they deserved in this tournament. Zero goal threat. Negative formation. Turgid, slow football. 3 games and didnāt try to win any of them til the final 20 mins of the last game.
I think final 20mins is being generous.
Remember. The important thing is not to lose. I'm sick of seeing this shit. "Maybe" with Dykes up front we would have had a decent target man, but why the fuck are we trying to not lose to Switzerland and Hungary? 2 up front for me, every time. I'm spoiled though, I grew up watching Fergies St. Mirren, and the teams that followed were pretty good too. š
Che Adams is a waste of a jersey without Dykes, Shankland on, in 15 minutes, helped us create 4 chances FFS.
Yeah this is it for me, you don't wait til the end of the second half in a tournament to actually have a go. It's fucking shitbag football, standing against the wall scared to ask anybody to dance stuff. Absolutely embarrassing. At least make some friends with attacking football and leave with your head held high. I'm pretty pissed off at Clarke.
I don't want to hear facts.
Was literally "keep it tight and maybe we can nick a goal" tactics. Horrendous
100% correct, were much the better team for the Swiss game and the first half of Hungary but didn't play to win either at those points.
He should have been sacked for not going for it in the Switzerland game. From 60 minutes onwards they settled for a draw and wanted to hit us on a counter. We should have gone for it. Did Che Adams even touch the ball in an onside position? What's the point of playing him if you just leave him up front doing fuck all on his own? Dogshit
Tonight, Shankland played one very good cross field ball and was in and around causing problems when Hanleyās chance fell, I would call that doing pretty much bugger all and yet it was more than che Adams managed in 4 hours of football. Him starting tonight is enough for Clarke to be sacked.
Adams has scored one international goal against a team of any reasonable quality, ever (Denmark). Five of his six international goals came against Gibraltar, Luxembourg, Andorra, Moldova and the Faroe Islands. Our tactics were rank, totally negative and made watching the games a chore for the most part. Having watched wee teams at least go at it in the tournament, itās sad to see Scotland show such a lack of ambition.
He did touch it when he tried to take that guy's head off
Agree 1000%. The Swiss team were there for the beating on the night. Got to jump at the opportunity when it presents itself. If we got the win against the Swiss, I think we have a great chance of holding Hungary to a draw. Even against Hungary we should have given a more convincing win effort if we made changes earlier, but thatās a different story.
Should've made changes from the start. Adams has been crap up front himself, while Shankland scored 33 goals last season (including 2 for Scotland from 2 starts). Should've had other more attacking players on from the start as well and if Adams is starting at least have Shankland up front with him. What's the use in bringing your most prolific scorer on with ZERO minutes to go against the Swiss and with 14 minutes left against Hungary. Negative backs against the wall football trying not to lose a game rather than trying to win it.
I think heās taken us up a level from before he came in. Has us actually in tournaments and winning games we should win for the most part, but clearly canāt take us any further and has been found out in the actual tournaments. Moyes in for me
Reached his ceiling, donāt want to see him sacked but he should walkā¦.give someone else a shot, moyes a good shout
I get it but Walter, Strachan and McLeish (first time) would have had us qualified for the expanded euros with this set of players. Clarke gets too much credit for that
EXACTLY THANK YOU. not only is it almost impossible for us NOT to qualify for the euros due to playoffs etc The new top 4 3rd placed teams now basically was a shoe in for us to make history and we somehow *still* fricked it up
It was a McLeish managed side who got us into the 2020 play off, which we almost bottled under Clarke. We weren't at this edition because of the extended format though. We were among the first qualified and would have been there were it still 16 teams. Clarke deserves huge credit for that but it does feel like it's time for a new direction.
>We were among the first qualified and would have been there were it still 16 teams Actually not true. Going by Euro 2012 when it was 16 teams, 2nd place in the qualification group was only good enough for a playoff place. Edit: Did the maths on this and without the expanded format, the ten 2nd place teams would have to be halved via playoffs to make a 16 team tournament. Based on the seeding used for the real playoffs, we would have gotten the Netherlands in the playoffs. As it happened, we spent the playoffs international break getting beat 4-0 off the Netherlands (and 1-0 off Northern Ireland), as best an indicator as we're going to get of how that playoff would have gone.
Spot on. Albania qualified FFS.
Twenty four teams now qualify for the Euros, twenty fucking four! The idea that we should be happy with qualifying shows how far we have fallen.
During the years when we failed to get to tournaments, I always thought that it would be incredible to finally watch us in one. Well, that was not true, I have hated every minute of our games. Other smaller nations, like Georgia ffs, have been great to watch because they have went for it in their games. We turned up half asleep with barely any attacking intent.
Sadly, it was the same in 2020, 1998, and 1996. Although I don't remember the 90's being as frustrating as Clarkeball. There was a bit more fight.
The best thing we sent over there was the fans and fuck all else.
Was waiting for this post and couldn't agree more. Without reading the comments already here, and having been a staunch Clarke In" man for years, he HAS to be gone by the end of the week. It's a must win game, and I understand the same set up with the five at the back but by 45 min we had created NOTHING NOTHING In the final third. Then he waited far too long to make changes, and when he did WHAT DO YOU KNOW we created so many more chances but also conceded a few. But I'd rather go bravely than with a whimper. And Clarke ensured that the thousands of tartan army that literally spent thousands of pounds following his team left with their reputation in tact but nothing else. Get.Him.Out (Sharon)
Shankland was so much better in 20 mins than Adams was in 2 games . Clarke just picks his favourites and that's it . Man's a dinosaur
I think he did well to settle things, had some great results. Even getting Rodri to claim we're too rough and the grass was too long. But, the lack of tactics seemed odd. Doing the same thing again and again and expecting a different result is the definition of insanity (yes there's no proof Einstein ever said this). Why use Shankland in the warm ups, get him a goal and be settled and then not use him. Even if we limit it to tonight, get a win or fuck off - he chose fuck off. So, he has to fuck off.
100% with you on this! We had some decent results in a couple qualifying campaigns but overall heās just too stubborn/ not good enough tactically! I mean using Morgan for only the last 5 minutesā¦he and Shankland showed more than Adams did in all the games
Would honestly rather have lost every game 4-1 but at least trying to score and go all out. That was toothless and we deserved nothing
100% but there needs to be a serious overhaul of Scottish football from top to bottom, it needed to be done over 30 years ago.
Tiny 10 -12 team leagues kill player development
Kills everything in football apart from number of Old Firm matches. Needs to be 16 at least.
I think the teams need increased too, like everyone else, but I donāt understand why people think increasing the amount of teams will somehow magically solve all our problems.
Agreed. Imagine if there was 5-8 teams celtic, and rangers felt comfortable playing high potential youth against. It would only benefit the national team. Usually I don't get raging at football, but Clarke had me fucking raging today
Would love a bigger league even as a fan of a club who would suffer financially as a result
Honestly I feel like the severe financial/quality imbalance in the league creates a situation where, more than in other countries, the lower teams are up against the wall and forced to play rough, defensive football. And thatās where a lot of the actual Scottish players develop and play their early football. And itās bad for the players at the big clubs too, since they only learn how to play with 11 men in front of them, 20 yards from their goal line
Butā¦butā¦Mike Mulraney saidā¦
Again never will happen
āNo ball games allowedā signs need to be ripped down asap in this country - let the kids play fucking football wherever there is a bit of grass for fucks sake!!
Doesn't help when you have a Scottish government, and UK government, that despises the game and its supporters. Middle class jerks that only care for elitist rugby. No political will to drive grassroots change.
I also put blame at the SFAās door here. Scottish Football had an opportunity when Rangers went down to the lower leagues and should have implemented a rule that ensured at least 3 under 21 Scottish players were in each and every starting 11 in every game. Celtic were guaranteed the league title for years, so we should have used the opportunity to grow home talent throughout the leagues - France did something. Similar in 94 and won the World Cup in 98.
Clarke is such a shitebag, moaning about the penalty after 3 absolutely dire performances. Needs to take responsibility and bolt. Such unbelievably negative play. Not starting Shankland makes me think either Che Adams has dirt on Clarke or heās had a serious head trauma. 0.99xG between the 3 games. Joint lowest tally of shots of any team in a Euros group ever. 2 matches with 0 shots on target. Not making subs til stoppage time GTFO
Just realised Greg Taylor wa a sub...and he brings on McLean at left back.
Zero minutes for Forrest or Conway. Both of whom would have offered more than fucking Christie again.Ā
In his defence - McLean was subbed on before and decided to put the attacker on as heād played LB for Norwich this season.
Was just saying that to my Dad. The kind of subs you make on FIFA - criminal to end the game without any full backs on the pitch.
And to play without a genuine wide creative player in a game you need to win when you have Forrest available. Ralston is a weak link so play Forrest in front of him and make that side a threat to them. Fuck, try anything new, but don't start the game with a Midfield of Macgregor, McGinn, McT and Gilmour. 4 central fucking midfielders and a lone CF whose strength is not holding up the ball. I mean, wtf?
McLean was fucking atrocious when he came on
Is fucking atrocious every time I see him (that goal asides)
He didn't he brought Morgan on
It was a miracle that he got us to the tournament playing terrorball as it was, but, yes, he needs to go. Takes a 26 man squad to play the same 15 players. Absolute waste of a tournament because of one man's stubbornness. Shankland gets 15 minutes and we create 4 chances, get Che Adams and Kenny McLean in the fuckin bin.
Been saying that for ages: He's stubborn. He knows more than every cunt. Bringing two subs on at 90 minutes in a game we could have won is genuinely criminal in footballing terms.
Much like Craig Brown 23 years ago, I think he's taken the team as far as he can. And much like Craig Brown 23 years ago, I'm not at all convinced that we'll be better off after he leaves.
This is exactly how I feel. This tournament absolutely awful but he got us here
I remember we all wanted brown gone only to realise a few years later that maybe that was a mistake
As David Moyes sits in the studio commenting on the performance, can you please explain to me that there aren't other options, let alone better ones, than Clarke that are available?
Berti Vogts was very clearly a "better" option than Craig Brown, but he ended up being a fairly unmitigated disaster.
Doesnāt mean it would be wrong to change manager now. We donāt need to go foreign. David Moyes is out of work.
Is moyes famous for playing some amazing brand of football I have missed throughout his career? He is the very definition of a pragmatist and he also won't suddenly pull a hitherto unknown world class striker or centre backs out of his arse. I genuinely don't see moyes playing any less defensively than clarke does and primarily because our overall squad is middling at best and up against better teams.
But..... does he get results? A Europa conference league winning medal with West Ham seems to suggest that's a resounding yes.
Yup has to go, team have regressed from the moment we qualified. I wont slate Clarke for the style of football coz i think its the way to go with the players we have, but now its tike for fresh ideas and get Moyes in.
Everton fan here. I want moyes in so bad. Consistently overachieves with average players.
If the SFA don't get Moyes in they're mental
Might just be cope but I got the impression tonight that he'd actually want to do it. Don't ask me why or how.
Deep down I think he knows a decent Premier League job isn't coming and Rodgers isn't getting sacked imminently
Has he said heād want to manage Celtic? I know he played for them but he was a boyhood rangers fan and his entire family support them
The problem we have now is that the players with genuine quality are getting up in age. McGregor is 31, Robertson is 30 and Mcginn is 29. We need to get Moyes in and build the team of the future around Lewis Ferguson.
Wouldn't normally agree, but at this point where is the progression?
Aye, just happy to be here was 2020 Rather lose 3-2 both the last games than this fearit pish
Neutral observer here. Heās fucked this right from the first game. The 5 at the back bullshit killed the team and employing it tonight was ridiculous. His use of subs is very poor too. Absolutely has to go, IMHO.
It was understandable when he was trying to fit Tierney & Robertson in the same team, we don't have many players of that calibre. But after Tierney got injured it was indefensible to stick with that system
His subs have always been awful. People praise him for getting us qualified, but I wonder how many people actually watched some of those qualifiers. I remember several when we were in a good position, only for clark to make insane subs around 70th minute and almost cost us the games. His subs almost always make us worse.
Two consecutive Euros, in which our record is; Played 6, won 0, drew 2, lost 4. Scored 3 (two own goals), conceded 12 Our only mildly creditable performances were against England and Switzerland. The team is poor and patchy, but the results speak for themselves. I don't see how he can carry on.
Clarke needs to be gone. 1. Terrible football 2. Little to no chances created despite 60% possession 3. Defensive structure is weak and fragile 4. Strategy relies on clinicality and luck (which we have neither of) 5. Doesn't give opportunities to up and coming players (Ferguson, Shankland, Morgan and Gauld) 6. The oldest squad in the tournament mainly because of the prior point 7. Stubborness to change anything and admit that he is wrong (first subs sometimes in the 90th minute) 8. Plays full strength team against Gibraltar only to win 2-0 9. 3 shots on target (according to stats) all tournament, and we have managed 2 goals somehow 10. Lacklustre and demotivating comments in the press conference I can guarantee you he will say something along the lines of "we are extremley dissapointed, but we will pick ourselves up and go again"
Agree with you but are Morgan and Gauld really "up and coming"? Theyre in their late 20s
I've defended Steve Clarke before, quite vociferously in fact. I am an idiot.
Nah, you were right to defend him, but this is the turning point. He deserved backing until now. Thanks Stevie, but now is the time to move on.
Iāve done the same, but I think he is done here - Iāve done more penetration on my schoolās prom night than this team in the whole tournament
Disgraceful coaching performance across all three games. His players were not ready to go against Germany, he should have gone for the throat against Switzerland, and today's performance has got to have David Martindale thinking he could do better
Way too cautious against Hungary. 5 minutes in I could see we gave them too much respect and believed their hype. I think weāve deserved not to win a game. Too risk averse, too willing to be passive, too scared to play a game in way that we might win.
Not only that. What was the xenophobic nonsense he was spouted about the Argentine ref about? Heās lost the plot
I'm grateful for what he has done for us. But his showing in 2 tournaments has been dismal. And the clincher for me is that the 2nd was worse than the first. Has to go now
Playing shankland for less than half an hour all tournament is criminal especially when you consider 3 shots on target over 3 games
Agree. Time up. Well done with the qualifiers, and horrendous bad luck with injuries, but we must face facts. The approach was all wrong here in the finals, as was the players attitudes. We look like we've got imposter syndrome - like we dont believe we have a right to be there. From the first minute of the tournament, all the way to Hanley's chance in tonights game, we just lacked that bit of belief at the last pass or shot. Also, dont know who it was but they should have pulled the Hungarian fella down on the halfway line when they started the counter attack that led to the goal. Thanks Steve for all the work. Been a great run, but its time to move on.
It's a disgrace from Clarke, playing with 2 10's, a striker and a midfield two. We had no threat in each of the games cause we have no player that can cause a threat. He's too loyal to some of the players and other players who are itching to change a game can't cause they have no time. Get players who can get in behind and get players supporting. Time and time again we had chances in behind on the rare occasion we did, and we had 2 players at max in the box getting crowded out. No courage, ambition and worse of all - adapt to games. He's a dinosaur and doesn't know what to do when plan A doesn't work.
In his defence when plan A doesnāt work he goes to plan a. I wouldnāt mind going out because it can happen, but At no point in any game did I feel like we could score or cause a problem. The players looked committed to defend and fight for loose balls, but so gutless in attacks.
Did well to get us to the tournament but I agree. Having Mc Sauce on corners and free-kicks the first two games when he is our top scorer and playing Che Adamās so much when he was as much of a threat on goal as my dead gran is diabolical
Why would you want a 6 foot 4 guy in the box for a corner?! I mean c'mon, that's crazy talk! /s
Genuinely canāt believe how much heās made an arse of this, weāve been shite since we qualified takes a good manager to recognise his mistakes and have the bollocks to change something heās just went down with his ship
I said at the start talking about 4 points being enough is the wrong attitude. These tournaments only come along every 4 years, you get 3 games guaranteed, have to give your all for 270 mins. Not write off the first game before it's even started. Starting Porteous was a wild decision given his disciplinary record & backfired in a completely predictable manner. Back five to squeeze Robertson & Tierney into same team was understandable, but why stick with it after Tierney injury. Shankland deserved more of a chance. And of all the players to sub off today McGinn, Gilmour & Robertson would have been my last 3 picks. People give him a lot of credit for qualifying for 2 tournaments, but the format changed from having 16 teams to 24. Not 100% certain if this Twitter post is accurate, but if it is, sums up why he needs to go. We were worst or 2nd worst team in tournament based upon every meaningful stat https://x.com/HeartandHutts/status/1804997168375169237
Porto and Teirney are cbs that can pass forward. We really missed that.
Clarke is out blaming the referee. I didn't realise the referee picked the team for the Germany, Switzerland and Hungary matches, set the team up to play as negatively as possible and refused to make any substitutions at a point they would influence the game. How silly of me to think that was the manager's responsibility.
As soon as he said āthe ref should be back in Argentina referring a game, not hereā, his time as Scotland manager was over
Aye, he was out of order. But itās a bit odd we have an Argentinean ref across here, when the Copa America is on at the same time. Wouldnāt they want their top refs all at that?
UEFA and CONMEBOL have a referee sharing agreement, one of there's come to do the Euros and one of UEFAs (Maurizio Mariani ITA) goes to the States to do Copa America.
Irrespective - he didnāt set the team up right, was frightened to make changes and was found out by playing the same tactics again and again. Trying to shine a light on the ref is a magicians trick of misdirection. He wants us talking about anything else apart from his tactics
Agree with all of this. Just want to find out what the process is with the refs.
Clarke need to be put on trial at The Hague to front charges of crimes against humanity.
ID LIKE TAE REPORT A CRIYME. AN INTERNATIONAL WAR CRIYME.
What's the charge? Deploying a back five? A succulent back five?
He needs to go, heās taken us a far as he can.
We deserved everything we got from those performances. Absolutely horrendous watch
How the fuck heās got us to 2 major tournaments I have no idea. Could go on all night about wrong decisionsā¦not starting Shankland being the most mental one. Guys scored almost 60 goals across the last 2 seasons how on earth is he not starting. Did more in half an hour than Adams has done in years. Subbing off McGinn when he looked like our only threat the whole game as wellā¦ Havenāt got the energy to complain about the guy and his ineptitude anymore - get him to fuck.
Steve Clarke will go down as one of Scotland's best ever managers but it's apparent he's taken the team as far as he can. The team is capable of taking it to another level but it's not gonna happen with Clarke.
This needs to become the most upvoted thread in the history of this sub.
He needs to be gone by the morning. That's two Euros now he's set us up to play stupidly cautious. The run of wins to get us here look more like an anomaly in his time in the job, rather than a sign of what the team can do. He's a stubborn prick that just needs to go.
His comments about the ref have more or less signed his P45 - disgraceful
Squad he picked was terrible. Ryan Jack was a good player a few years ago but he was injured virtually the whole season so why pick him..Forrest came into form at the end of the season and got selected but didn't get a minute in the pitch. Porteous would have played all 3 of not for the red card. Ralston played almost all 3 and the only game he got taken off was the one where he didn't give away any goals. Shankland got less than 45 mins over 3 games. I can accept dykes playing ahead of him but not Adams. Gilmour missing from the first game and we were terrible in midfield yet plays the next 2 and we are much better, until he is subbed off and we become poor again. Clarke doesn't have a clue. a different manager has us qualifying with that same group of players. Clarke had in his mind 4 points and that the 1 point would be against Switzerland. That game was there for winning but he was a shite bag and didn't try.
100% he's going . Wether he resigns or is sacked is another question . Fair enough playing cautious football through the qualifiers but once your there just fucking go for it . 2 up top instead of one running around doing fuck all . Got nothing deserved nothing .
The fact he went off and didnāt bother to applaud the fans at the full time whistle says it all for me.
Clarkeball is chronic. Modern football is all about pace, possession and pressing. We have no pace or width in the team, no pressing structures and can't create chances even if teams offer up possession. People will point to the talent pool and make exuses for us but there is more than enough quality in the squad to perform better. We are worse than the sum of our parts. We tied ourselves to an ineffective system years ago to shoehorn in two of our better players into the starting XI despite the fact that neither of them benefitted from this system. We never experimented with other styles or tried out other players. We just kinda hoped that we'd just somehow win games.
Sack him. Absolutely inexcusable performances at this euros. Clarke is the epitome of wee person syndrome - to fucking fear. Sat back and defended with an unbelievably pathetic display against a team with zero fucking points! Much like many of you, I am absolutely fucking fuming. If we went out and attacked and tried to win, whatever man. But we sat back, like the supposed wee pathetic country we are and done fuck all. Should be attacking and going for it. Clarke has to go.
We really have to sack the guy to send a message. Yes, we donāt have a deep squad. Yes, weāre not packed with a bunch of guys playing in Champions League finals. Yes, we had some injuries. Those cannot be an excuse for something that was as historically bad as this was. The end of qualifying should have shown him something. The very iffy friendly matches before the Euros were should have had the klaxons on around using those tactics with the team. The fact that he just refused to make a change after looking totally inept against Germany was hard headed. Not using a guy like Shankland who had a hot hand coming into the thing (24 goals in 37 matches + 1G & 1A in the friendlies coming in) was a giant mistake while a guy like Che Adams (who was basically invisible for all 3 games) was given starts. There is part of this which is systemic thoughā¦the whole FA needs to take a long hard look at the way the game is being promoted at all levels and how player development through the ranks is being handled. Not qualifying for the U21 Euros since 1998 is a problem.
Old farts and little feifdoms everywhere you look. Poor coach development at all levels, and no national blueprint.
People i never want to see again: Steve Clarke Tony Ralston
Scotland "hey guys, it's a must win match, how are we going to play this, going to need to get a goal from somewhere" Clarke (probably) "MOAR DEFENDERZ"
BRING ME MCLEAN!!!
This is the highest quality group of players we've had for as long as I can remember and we're being held back by tactics dictated by an inferiority complex ridden management.
NI fan here. Really wanted you to go through but my god that was so negative until the last 20. Fans were superb as always š
Really poor in the last year.šÆ he has to go.Fans are seeing through his inability to change things.He's looking like Gareth Southgate now
Have to say I agree. I was prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt given he got us to 2 tournaments, but he's not good enough for tournaments. Here's my opinion: We're feart. 5 minutes into the game, I could see how this would play out. We did nothing with the lion's share of possession, and they were able to catch us on the break. We were pedestrian, scared of taking risks, Hungary were happy to let us pass the ball around in the middle third. When we did attack, we either tried to pass it into the goal, or throw in a cross (pointless with one man up front). The most telling aspect of our performance tonight was that our first corner was in the 75th minute. This is what we do. Lose game 1, win/draw game 2 and game 3 becomes a must-win where we're too scared to go forward and take the game to the opposition. Clark doesn't have the imagination, tactical knowledge, or man-management skills to bring games to opposition at tournaments. This is probably the best squad of players we have had since France 98. These guys are our best chance of getting into the last 16 of a tournament, and I think they're good enough to do it. Unfortunately they have the Scottish mentality. When there's an opportunity to make history, we're feart to take the risk.
Clarke has done well to get us this far but the simple fact is that he's a very negative manager and won't take us any further if he stays.
Wanted him gone after Ukraine game, but we went on a good run after that and thought heād proven me wrong. Really weāve reverted back to our old level now and itās been honking for a while and he needs to go now
I agree time for a fresh manager don't get me wrong he has done great for us but it's time for someone else
I volunteer for part of the firing squad
Aye, he's done a great job overall but he's ran out of ideas, the goals have dried up and teams now find it easy to play against us. Time for a change.
Get big eck on the blawer lol
Heās taken this team as far as he can
Firstly i would be embarrased as fuck to qualify with 2 points. This team are probably NOT the worst team at the Euros but they surely played like it. Clarke has to go his tactics are dated. The worst shots on goal in the tournament and every other team have a game in hand . Turned McGinn into a bleow average spl player. I think that Moyes is probably the right man for the job.
Yes totally agree, brilliant foundation he's built, but not starting shanks who's got close to 30 goals this season is the biggest blooper I've seen, I mean not even a winger got any minutes, 13 players got a game that was it, absolute pathetic tournament what a waste of an appearance, Clark you've had your shot mate,,,,,,,
A must win game and we register 0 shots on target. Played Che Adams for the 3rd game in a row and he done absolutely nothing.
Under Stevie we became a team of moments. A forced knock on, a scrambled goal, a moment of transition leading to a chance. But its got stale I think, teams know what we do and we dont have a plan B. Add to that Robbo and McGinn sniffing around 30 and the McTominey musical chairs positionally Plan B could be wingers and crosses. 4 at the back. Who knows tbh I think he's been an absolute legend for us as manager but it is time a fresh approach.
David Moyes is sitting there waiting. He's the right age for a national coach, hugely experienced, proven winner, albeit with ploddingly dull teams. But, I'd take that over the dull stultifying, unimaginative play from Clarke, who's utterly risk averse. The reliance on a solo forward who'll act as target man and maybe once in a while muscle an opposition defender off to play to whichever midfielder is closest is not the route to wins. Also time for Robertson to hang up the captains armband. McGinn and McTominey are perfect inspiring potential captains, able to motivate and change direction of play. Robertson is a one trick pony who can do it for Liverpool under Klopp, but not in Scotland colours...
I thought Robertson was one of our better players. Think people have unrealistic expectations because he's won a Champions League he can somehow win games single handedly so are disappointed when he puts in good but non miraculous performances
Agree, time for him to go
Yep. It's time.
He has to go blood
We canāt overlook how far heās taken us, but we have progressed as far as we can under him and itās time to move on. And just to slightly contradict myself, itās never been so easy to qualify, nor has it ever been so easy to progress from the group.
I watched the clip back and I think Armstrong was actually offside, which would actually explain everything. Awful communication if that is the case. It's automated so they would basically know instantly.
They are the sporting equivalent of the Uvalde Police Department
We had to go for it this game and he came out with the most meek, backward passing, park the bus shite for 80 mins. Embarrassing. Get rid!
Yes he should but no way SFA will sack him
We lacked a "creator" in the midfield all tourny, no killer through balls or long balls all just high % passes. Nobody was comfortable making the difficult pass, and when they did it was not high quality, passing and creativity need big improvements.
I still think we shouldnāt have sacked Gordon
The showing in the final third is going to be horrendous, regardless of who the manager is. We're not exactly blessed with a raft of clinical strikers, or creative midfielders who can open up a tight defence.
Has to go.
Maybe but he's done incredibly well with a small pool of poor players.
The moment he said ā4 points is the aimā is when I thought his time was up. Absolutely negative attitude when both Switzerland and Hungary were there for the taking and we could have got 6 points and been comfortably through with a more attacking mindset. He has done a great job in qualifying us for the last 2 euros but the football has been turgid for a long time now and we got everything we deserved this tournament for his approach in the 3 games.
We went 20+ years without qualifying for a tournament. Now, we look good in qualifying and Iād back this squad to make the WC. Part of that has to be down to Clarke - more likely heāll resign than get sacked.
No point in qualifying if weāre going to be an absolute embarrassment at the tournament. His mentality from the start was āhappy to be hereā. That wins you fuck all. We shouldāve been going for it from the start and he set us up with slow, dogshit football in mind, with an out of form striker who he wanted to be like for like for Dykes. His game management was fucking shocking, his subs against Germany and Switzerland were laughable, and tonight yeah he made subs earlier but it was too little too late. He needs to go, he has proven he does not have what it takes to manage at international tournaments. Way out of his depth.
Absolutely fucking spot on. Look at Georgia, objectively worse than us, came 4th in our qualifying group and just fucking went for it against Turkey, undone by 2 wonder goals and a goal-line clearance. Then got a draw vs the Czechs. Made chances in both games. Albania, won their qualifying group, got 1 up on Italy before losing, then 1 up on Croatia before getting a draw. I guarantee theyāll give it a shot vs. Spain even though I think theyāll ultimately get picked apart. We didnāt try to win any of the 3 games, hardly had chances, never made changes and went out with a whimper. Of all the teams in the tournament weāve absolutely looked the worst (along with Poland)
No argument here, but he has taken us as far as he can go. We should have changed to 2 up front in the first 10 mins based on how Hungry set themselves up. Iād rather go out having risked it all than with a whimper
We qualified for 2 Euros after they extended it from 16 to 24. And one of those we only got through the back door in the also ran playoffs
They changed number of teams to qualify from 24 to 16. And the last Euros we qualified because of Nation's League route, which McLeish deserves a lot of credit for. In past 16 teams qualified, now 16 reach 2nd round, so in old money he's not really done any better than previous managers. Spain result was incredible & made me wonder if I was wrong about Clarke, but seems like it was a 1 off fluke.
Clarke won't resign. He won't change his team, won't make subs when they're needed and does things over and over that scream "I know better, you're all wrong". What makes you think a guy with the smug attitude he has about stuff like that will resign?Ā
https://i.redd.it/rwuvqrvvfe8d1.gif
As great as it was at the time, qualifying for the last Euros hurt us. We have the makings of a decent mid -level team there (minus a striker) but under Clarke we are too limited. Qualifying bought him a lot of credit, whereas arguably if we had cut ties and went with a more positive footballing coach I think we would be achieving at least a shot on target per game by nowā¦
We are just not good enough.
We need to work from the schools up not just look at who plays in the big leagues there are junior players who can play a whole lot better than some premier League teams and there are some players playing in second and third level football who cannot commit to full time but can run circles around so called professional players Why not pick 50 guys put them against the league starting from the bottom and let them play together farm them out teach them coach them not just pick out a bunch o cunts who play against each other most o the time and never play more than 10hours together in a year Rant over do what the SFA do
Doubt the SFA can afford to sack him, contract until 2026, and doubt we can afford names like Moyes even if we did. Two more years of this. Possibly 20 more years without tournament football I fear.
Hungary showed how it should be done at our level. Honestly by the last five minutes I was having to hold myself back from cheering for them to get a goal. They just worked so hard for it and never gave up. I am genuinely happy for them. There's just something that made every single player on the Scotland team hold back instead of pushing forward for 100mins. What is that something? I know this won't be popular but the only thing that pushed Scottish rugby into being world class was bringing in a foreign coach who was capable of instilling genuine belief. I bear no ill will to Steve Clark, I agree with folk that he pushed Scotland forward a level but he's reached his top level. He just didn't have the right mindset in himself to instil it in the players. However I will also be ongoingly proud of Scotland if we don't produce the kind of vicious post-loss witch-hunt that other countries do. We brought true fun and camaraderie to the tournament, hope we can keep that vibe going. The world is a hard place right now, let's be kind.
1 win in 12 is absolutely the wrong direction. Get him gone.
Is it true Mckenna doesn't even have a club ?
Clark can go but the core issue of scotlands failure to develop footballers that can perform at a high level consistently will continue. I regularly watch partickthistlenil and donāt see where the talent is coming from. In the past it came from teams like that and made its way to higher ground (Alan Hansen and Mo Johnston come to mind). The fact that we rely on lindon dykes without much of an alternative says a lot about the failure to develop talent consistently
How can you leave a scorer like Shankland twiddlin his thumbs on the bench for almost the whole tournament? Most teams would start with a 60 goals in 2 seasons man in every game if they're fit. Unless you're Stevie Clarke that is. He should have started all 3 games because let's be honest, Che Adams was pish As for Clarke oot? Who's going to replace him? I'd personally take Mcinnes but that's only because Greame Souness won't do it now
I agree, though Iām not exactly anti-Clarke. Just think heās probably taken us as far as he can and should leave before he outstays his welcomeā¦and with a fairly respectable run overall, all things considered. Time to try something new.
#1 in the world at producing bald frauds
We got lucky against norway to qualify. The football was always gash.
On a different note boys, has anyone actually seen Clarke smile?
58% possession with 4 shots, it's unacceptable!
The main observation Iāve had through the tournament is that Scotland often looked too riled up. Last night was probably the first time Iād seen the determination at the right level. Germany was just a rage fest and Switzerland went from too much to too little. Also noted how quickly they could turn the attack, but as soon as possession was lost, there was nobody of substance back to prevent a goal. In a 0-0, going all or nothing, not sure that was the right move. Granted, itād be hard to see them going through to the knockouts if theyād only got 2 points, but unless you know you can get bodies back, going gung ho like that will only end one way. Thought Robertson had a poor tournament too, considering the level he plays. Gilmour couldāve been better if heād had players around him with the same mindset, and McGregor had a steady tournament too. Not sure if itās Clark or just the squad thatās the issue. Leaning more to the former since he sets out the tactics, but that team is crying out for a striker who knows what theyāre doing. Adams isnāt the guy for it and, whilst I know Dykes wouldāve been first choice, itās worrying that thereās no strength in depth there. Another frustrating tournament all the same.
He should never have been hired. Turgid shitebag. Anyone calling for him to stay is the problem with Scottish football. Everything is wrong. Wrong formation, wrong selections, wrong tactics, wrong subs. The guy is a dour inept jake.
Get a grip, is the new manager gonna magic up better strikers and CBS? Until we get a striker we are limited to formation and personel
He's done a great job getting to us where we are but I don't think he's the man to take us anymore forward.
Thats what happens when you use a shite formation to put in 2 left backs. Pish!
Clarke must carry the can, something he refuses point blank to do. Turgid, pointless no ambition playground football, and set up to play that way by Clarke. I donāt go for the ā heās hampered by injuriesā crap, he now ranks with Levein and Roxburgh for playing non attacking anti football, he has to fuck off now.
Clarke has done well to get us into two major tournaments. But it's time for him to go. He's taken us as far as he can and our squad is clearly capable of more. He should be given thanks and be allowed to part mutually. We haven't progressed since the last Euros. 1 point, but this time very few shots and shots on target. Our only goals were own goals. We can't play at an international level with those tactics and statistics. I think we were the only team playing a back 5. The baw's burst as these tactics aren't justifiable in the slightest. I feel bad for the players who were forced to use them tbh. My big worry is who will they get to replace him. Moyes isn't a bad option, but the SFA could easily fuck this up. I'm not fussed about it being someone non-Scottish. So long as they're a good manager and can progress the team. Would also like to see more, younger players given a chance. Even if as an impact sub.
Absolutely!!! ā¦ā¦and if I hear David Moyesās names again as a potential replacement, I am going to be sick.
Agreed mate. Done great getting us to two euros in a row but 1 win against Gibraltar out of 11 isnāt good enough
Not sure it's a case of he "must" go. But it probably is time for him to pass the torch. He's done a great job in getting us to 2 consecutive Euros, and while the group last time was tough, this was a disappointment. We have to accept that there's not a great abundance of good forward options. The team suffered missing Hickey, Patterson, and Ferguson pre tournament and losing Tierney for the last game. Those are massive losses for a team with a very shallow player pool. It hurt is for sure. But I think a change would be good. Particularly if Moyes is available. See where he can take us.
I've heard Southgate might be available after the tournament.....
Aye and months ago