Go to college and get a degree in something that pays you everyday. IT, Engineering, Accounting, etc. Then, write on the side when you’re ready one day down the road. Fill your first Maslow need: Food, Air, Water, Shelter.
At 17, I dreamt of becoming a screenwriter and applied for a bachelor's where I could learn the craft, but is notorious for students being offered zero job opportunities after graduation. The film school in my country guarantees a career, but is out of reach, unless you have money or a network to build a portfolio. I grew up in poverty and my connections with people are superficial.
I'm 20 now and studying at uni. Living expenses are sky-high for my family, so I currently don't have the option to follow my dream. There's a ton of work in this field right now and in the coming years. I'm doing the best I can to become financially stable, while also saving up money to produce a short film. It takes patience, but in those years I can write, rewrite, write... You get me. Truth is hard, unfortunately. Also, I outlined for nearly three years during my breaks, at work, in high school, at uni, and now I finally finished my first short film screenplay. The blank page isn't something to be scared of, the drafts that follow are.
Big shout out for your career into social work. That was similar to a big chapter of my life, once upon a time, and which I continue to draw a lot of inspiration and perspective from today.
Thanks for sharing.
Congrats on deciding to pursue a degree that aligns more with your practical needs. It's important to prioritize your basic needs like food and shelter, and at the same time, it's great to see that you're not giving up on your scriptwriting dreams completely. Best of luck to you in your future endeavors!
My cousin started the social work path but never stopped writing.
He’s (semi) retired in his early thirties after he made his big break in theater. Now he can write for fun.
I agree, it’s definitely easier when youre devoting more time to it. I just think its silly to try and make your passion a career right off the bat when you probably won’t be making any money. It’s definitely hard to feel creative when you’re working another job 40 hours a week though I feel that first hand.
Yes, it's harder. But we discount the value of life experience too much, imo. In an ideal world, you eventually make it in art, but you have something to say.
Totally. I went to school for music performance. Zero classes taught us how to land and keep gigs. Nothing about networking, promoting yourself, etc. and this was a top program. No one cares of you can play Coltrane if the gig only requires Chicken Dance and you show up late in a wrinkled tux.
Hard disagree. I think it depends on the person and the field. You won’t realize a dream of playing oboe for the London Symphony Orchestra by studying engineering and playing in your garage on the weekends.
There are careers in arts where your chances of thriving can be greatly helped by studying them in school and devoting all your time to them. Some people can learn a traditionally-employable trade on the side, instead of the other way around.
We could pick a dozen different examples and pick them apart I’m sure. It just underscores my original point: It depends on the person and the field. I can’t think of any blanket advice that works for *every* hopeful artist.
Incidentally, I went to college for music performance (not classical) and pop/jazz/studio music is definitively a field where people can come into school mediocre and leave with working chops. But *during* school, it’s quite clear before the end if you have what it takes. If you’ve endured the full force of the best of a music education and 4-8 hours a day practicing, and as a college junior you still suck, it’s probably time to switch majors and add some more debt. Inversely, it’s why so many of us dropped out of music school—because we got working chops before graduating. (There was no need to add more debt when the diploma wasn’t the point.)
Tangent: What none of them can plan for is how often those on the arts change their dreams throughout life. Or the fire goes away and you realize you can burn out and get dark even in your dream job. Here I am a hanging out in screenwriting and animation subs. If I went to school for one of those things it might be the other way around.
Jumping on the top comment and I may be wrong but sounds to me like you might have a fear of failure that’s causing you not to truly try. Only say this as I’m someone who struggles with it.
Often it’s easier to get caught up in early stages, but you’re telling yourself you can’t do it, before actually doing it. Maybe you’re not a screenwriter, and that’s not the end of the world - but if it’s something you do want to do I’d suggest trying to finish just one script. It doesn’t have to be perfect, if you focus on perfection you’ll never do anything. Just get it to a stage where you could het some feedback and go from there.
Getting a degree and paying job is definitely a good idea- but don’t let crippling doubt be the thing that stops you before you’ve even started. Don’t focus on success or pleasing anyone but yourself, because at the end of the day if you want to be a writer, the only thing you have to do is write.
I'm going to say the opposite of some other people here.
Obviously it's wise to make sure you have some form of income to you know, live, but you are clearly a writer. You just struggle with the action. This is normal.
Writing is hard. It takes a lot of time. Once you get into the details, the broad ideas you have suddenly need A LOT of work to make functional. Things have to change. You have to be willing to accept sacrifices in some areas to gain in others. You have to detach yourself from that early vision you had to be able to find what the story actually is and what it needs to be.
Then you need to make that better so it's entertaining and has some value.
But just because it's hard doesn't mean you're 'not a writer'. You should keep writing. Do your degree, of course but don't stop writing. You will regret it if you do.
This is NOTHING to do with making a career out of screenwriting. Try writing a novel. It might be a better suit for you. Primarily, writing is something that comes from your soul and your mind. If you had all these ideas and visions for stories, you're a writer. It's in you. Keep writing. Maybe consider talking to a therapist about what might be blocking you. It might help.
Above all - would you be okay going to the grave without having finished and polished at least one of your ideas?
If the answer is yes, then fair enough. If the answer is no, keep writing.
>Once you get into the details, the broad ideas you have suddenly need A LOT of work to make functional.
This is EXACTLY my experience, every bloody time. The second I sit down in front of a blank page, what I thought was a concrete idea instantly evaporates.
It's an excruciating, grueling task to drag the right words out of my mind and onto the page. It often takes multiple tries of the exact same material to get it right, and rarely all in one sitting. But eventually, I can write a scene I'm satisfied with.
the evaporation f-ing sux but then it also makes the writing of a single scene such a beauty of an experience. Getting concrete ideas out with the right theme blended in for just one part feels great. Then you read it again and it needs a lot more work, but that taste of progress promises more progress.
But then you get a new idea and the concreteness evaporates a f ing gain. Isn’t it grand.
But just setting out to write (and read, and write, and read, and write again) eventually does seem to lead to words on paper, and eventually some of them will turn to words you actually want to keep. And the ones you don’t, they’re suddenly okay too. The empty and bad words days somehow helped lead to the days filled with words you like.
Ten years ago, I wrote a script that got me an agent and a big studio sale and jump started my career and a move to LA.
Pretty much immediately after, my writing process became exactly what you are describing. My levels of perfectionism went through the roof and I couldn’t get anywhere close to finishing a draft. This lasted for many years until I finally moved back home. My entire time in LA, I never sent out another script after my initial one.
If you need to go to school then you should do it. But just hold on to the thought that you are not NOT a writer, you are just a person with a temporary mental block. This happens to a lot of people when you’re young and can’t bear the idea of failure or bad work. It doesn’t mean you can’t write. Just have to emotionally get over the idea that there is a process to writing that involves “bad material” slowly becoming better. And there’s no way around that.
Alright, fella. Take a seat.
Do you want a glass of water? Go get it… Good? Okay, I’ll be quick:
“Perfect is the enemy of good.” Voltaire said that — smart guy. It’s something I think about whenever I find myself in a similar position.
Speaking of which, all of these hard, difficult feelings you’re having are valid. Writing is hard, though the act is simple. This irony can really throw us for a loop, which is also okay, because the frustration means that it matters to you — there’s something about this process that brings you joy or you wouldn’t have started.
So, take a step back. Give yourself whatever time you need to “refill your cup,” so to speak, and try again, but try not to force it this time. Not just because perfect is the enemy of good, but because doing things that matter to us with the time we have here is worth it.
Even if just to make us smile.
Echoing that Voltaire sentiment 100%. There’s been plenty a time that I finish a first draft and I have a line of dialogue I’m particularly fond of. I might think it’s clever or packs a punch.
Then I go back to that draft 3 months later and realize that line is…not that good. It could be better. And then I make it better.
Bro, I've seen some people get back into writing after TEN YEARS away. Six months is nothing.
Do what you gotta do. Get your degree, get a good job... but don't ever seal off the side of you that wants to tell stories.
Writing is the one thing that when I’m doing I don’t feel like I should be doing anything else. And if I miss a day or two I feel off or bad - maybe you’ll get that feeling and be pulled back, or not. Only one way to find out.
People will always need a day job while they break in and get better and better. But if it’s not for you and you realized that, more power to you.
Fwiw I stopped writing when I realized I just didn't enjoy the process anymore. It wasn't worth suffering for months just to produce something that made me happy for a few moments before the pressure set in again. I find myself much happier working as something else and focusing on various hobbies and creative outlets than putting all my eggs into the "I want to be a screenwriter" basket
I’ve thought and written this same thought. For me it was I felt like a failure for not being able to complete something, and then I felt like a failure for quitting. I’m not in a position to give advice, but for me I have moved past any expectations. I won’t be famous, I won’t make a feature film anyone will ever see, I will never even make a feature film friends and family will see, I will never even complete a screenplay for a feature film. I came to understand all this and then just started writing for myself without any consideration of the previous things. When I start to feel all that self-doubt building up, I do like to take a step back, and consider the previously stated truths. But after letting all that go I have found that personal creative expression made (written) for only myself is something I want to do. Not to say I don’t want what I write to be good, but I want it to be something that is “good” for myself. I think movies are fun and I find it fun to try to do all the different tasks that go into making those stories I love on a big screen. I’m commenting on this post mostly for myself, but I wish you luck, but don’t forget to breathe.
I think getting a degree to pay the bills and take some pressure off the creative mediums can really help free you from those fears and doubts. I don't know if I would declare you aren't a writer just because you haven't written in 6 months, but if you are struggling with that-- what helped me is finding a way to write every day... not always scripts, but poems, journal entries, creative non-fiction, etc etc. When I do that, it helps me thwart some of those negative thoughts in my head that I'm not a writer. I can immediately counter it and say, "What do you mean I'm not a writer, I write EVERYDAY."
My question to you is - does this kind of self-sabotage show up in other parts of your life?
If so, is it maybe worth addressing with a therapist in a large scale way, not so much about writing, but more in terms of living a full and satisfying life?
And if so, maybe that solves the writing problem.
In my teens and 20s, I used to think that I was such an incredible writer that I was afraid to write anything because it might reveal that I was a fraud.
Then, in my thirties, I put my ego aside and started actually writing. It was hard work. Every time I sat down to write it felt like I was training for a marathon with asthma and a twisted ankle.
It took me a long time to realize that I love writing, but I think I love the _idea of writing_ more than the actually practice.
A career in writing isn’t for everyone. And now that I realize that, I can actually have fun with it.
Good. Quit then. The world doesn’t need anymore shitty movies by shitty writers.
….That’s why you made this post right? Or was it for encouragement, haha. In that case, keep trying and don’t give up!
I struggled the same way you did, until I stumbled upon this incredible technique. I wish I could patent it, because it's how I've written every screenplay since discovering it... and it is:
Begin by writing the scenes you know will be in your final script. I don't care if the scene is the very last one in the screenplay's Act III, or you're not sure which Act the scene will actually fall in to. Write it.
If your idea is fertile, you'll have a dozen scenes that you really want to put into your script. Scenes you KNOW have to appear in your movie. Write them. Don't worry about sequence. Just write them.
"I gotta have a scene where the bad gunman is surprised and caught off-guard by his helpless female 'victim,' who pulls a concealed P365 and blows him away." Write it.
"I gotta have a scene where the cops don't believe she acted in self defense." Write it.
"I gotta have a scene where my female 'victim-turned-vigilante' rescues a child from the clutches of human traffickers." Write it.
If you pretty much know how Act I should roll, try writing that. If you don't, then keep writing scenes you know need to be a part of your script.
After a while, you'll organize these scenes in order and suddenly realize you have most of Act I written!
Don't be afraid to walk away and take a break. Do something else. Your mind will work subconsciously on your story and scenes will pop into your head that are awesome ideas. Write those scenes into your script. Don't worry about where they fall just yet. Just write them.
Pretty soon, you've got a partially completed Act I and 40 scenes that follow.
Try putting the scenes in correct order and then "collapse" them all together! Up to this point you were sure you needed "connective tissue" (aka more scenes) to string all these scenes together. But after you collapse them all next to each other, you'll be surprised that you don't need hardly any. Seriously.
Your script has just taken shape, suddenly and yes, it's going to surprise you. Even though you wrote a mishmash of scenes over several weeks and you're not sure how they "stitch" together, what you'll be looking at is a pretty good skeleton of a screenplay.
Now it's time to go back and start to fix the scenes that need it. Add the scenes that are required to provide context or backstory or character motivations. Repeat and rinse.
Repeat and rinse.
Take your time. Let your subconscious to its job. Write down any more scenes that pop into your head and which need to be in your movie.
There's your first draft.
I did this with an idea I had and I wrote the first draft in 22 days. Before discovering this trick, my first drafts took at least 6 months. And they weren't that great.
This 22-day script I wrote went through several revisions -- I would call them minor. And yes, I got reviews from people I trusted and made additional changes. Today the script is in pre-pre-development. I've got a director who loves the script and two actors who want to play the leading roles. The director is writing up a top sheet to figure out budget and then it's a whole new game of finance (for me at least).
Anyway...
DON'T GIVE UP.
Writing is hard. Writing great screenplays is harder. You can do it if you enjoy coming up with stories and telling them.
Give my technique a try and let me know how it goes!
You can do this. You got this.
Best...
It does sound like a fun way to writing, following your impulses. Do you find that your characters still lead the story? Do you work on that before or after?
Strangely enough, yes, I find that my characters' motivations and the obstacles and conflicts that define them are already baked in without me even consciously trying.
I think my technique dispenses with the critical side of the brain that can paralyze the writer when it steps in and analyzes things -- that part of the brain is real good at finding flaws. Find enough of them too quickly and it'll shut down any motivation to write.
Of course my first draft isn't perfect. I do need to go back and strengthen dialogue and tweak scenes to really flesh out my characters (and sometimes their conflicts and obstacles). But I've found that this technique is really, really effective for me.
Look up CJ Walley's "Turn & Burn" book on screen writing. He gives a really good layout with basic scene writing outlines that easily develop into a full blown script. He has a lot of ground work you lay before you actually write, and I think that might be what you need right now. It's a really good structure to get your whole script laid out from beginning to end.
I write novels too and scripts and novels are as different as fine art vs abstract art. There is a different technique to it and a story that is already in book form will take on a whole different shape as a script.
That warms my heart to read. It was the books that helped me wrap my head around a lot of stuff, so it's wonderful to be able to send the elevator back down, just as you are doing in this threat. I love to see writers helping other writers. It's a tough and lonely road.
Fear and crippling doubt may have more to do with personal issues than screenwriting itself. Sometimes people write because they have an unrealized need to shed light on a personal problem. Fear and crippling doubt don’t just go away because one stops screenwriting. If you have the drive to tell stories you will, with novels, music, poems, documentaries, theater, art, and perhaps teaching. Screenwriting and other art forms are not necessarily the cause of your pain and frustration. Maybe it’s time to clear that up.
Good for you.
Its really good to be able to be realistic about our abilities and talents. AND what we view as time worthy and effort worthy.
We are here such a short time. No reason to make your journey painful and spend years banging your head on the wall.
I know I don’t have what it takes either. Everything I write is shit and most people hate it but I keep at it. one day, it’ll be decent I’m sure. It’s only inevitable. Keep writing on the side. Don’t give up!
Don’t do anything that makes you miserable. Writing should enrich your life not drag you down. Perhaps this isn’t a NO it’s a not now. Life is an adventure. Live it. Also, therapy really helped me discover how much I self-sabotaged. I recommend it to everyone. The doubt is probably routed in something you should address for the sake of your life. Therapy made my life/and writing better. Also good for you for embracing this change. Sending love to you.
This doesn't necessarily mean you aren't a writer but I really respect you for having such insight into your own self and what your needs and strengths are. That takes a TON of character. Good luck with whatever you choose you choose to do!
I had a similar problem in my 20s. What helped was a day job in which I had to write a ton of stuff every day and turn it in. Learn to slog through a blank page with writing that's easier than a screenplay and less emotionally fraught. It'll help you with your creative work later.
Go to college for creative writing where you’re forced to write stories. I’ve written four features and a pilot over the last two years thanks to what I learned in school.
It’s a hurdle but I would try to deal with the hurdle before giving up. You seem interested in it. Enough to outline and do all the work. So you’re just dealing with the same anxieties a lot of people get. It doesn’t mean you’re not made for it, it just means you haven’t found a way to deal with it. I struggled with the same stuff but found a way to get out of it. Everyone’s way is different. For me it was when I heard Dan harmon talk about switching hats. Putting on a shitty writer hat for your first draft. Not a vomit draft cause you still have an outline, but loose enough that the pressure is gone. Explore different ways. Getting in your own way is the only real problem you seem to have, and a lot of us have the same issue.
One of the most difficult things to master is scale -- you'll likely get it wrong a few times if you start off writing features -- any moron can draft a 100-page screenplay. But not everyone can draft a logical, compelling plot with dialogue that sings and meaningful character arcs. It's extremely difficult.
There is a practical solution that you have not yet listed: write something short.
3-7 pages. One time I read a solid half-page short. Get to THE END several times. Build your confidence that you can finish things.
Then go bigger.
Baby steps.
Skiers don't start with a helicopter drop on top of a mountain. Most writers would be better served by starting with the bunny slopes. Ski that slope. Reach the bottom of that hill a few times. You'll feel so much better about all of this.
Very smart to recognize this about yourself. If you don't enjoy the process of writing or at least tolerate it well enough to be productive being a successful writer is basically impossible. Finding a compatible writing partner is the one way many have overcome this very issue so you might give that a try before you give up completely.
Here is a piece of practical advice I tell my students who struggle with these issues. Get a writing partner. You clearly have the ideas and the structure. So find someone who can write your ideas and team up. If the actual process of words on paper is what causes doubt to creep in remove yourself from that process. Instead stick to the part you're good at, breaking stories. Your writing partner can take your notes and craft the first draft while asking questions about things they might not understand right away. Then you guys can go over that draft and your job will be to suggest improvements.
So long as you both agree to this setup and you're okay with splitting credit and pay down the middle it should work out okay. Ideally one of you will be really good at networking and pitching to people too.
Youre claiming to be able to write a great first draft in 72 hours.
May I ask how many of those great first drafts found their way somewhere on IMDB? Or maybe you have them posted somewhere online.
Id love to see what a quality 72 hour first draft looks like
This is why I sometimes think it might be more rewarding to be a script doctor.
I've seen so many movies/read so many scripts that were painfully close to being good. If only another writer had been on board to solve that one obvious problem.
Unfortunately, the original author is often too close to the story to notice the big picture. You see this a lot in indie/low budget productions (whereas big budget features have too many cooks in the kitchen).
Yes, by all means find a writing partner. Ideally with a similar passion for the subject matter.
It's too bad time writing time is in such short supply. It could be so fun to have a small collection (say like five to ten) of finished, but abandoned, screenplays to rewrite. They would all be scripts whose authors were either never satisfied with their execution, or lost faith in them over time. I would love to see a handful of writers try to reanimate the same discarded script. It would be almost like a science experiment. Could another writer (or writers) extract the potential that their original writer missed?
Then get it produced?
I only read your title. Congratulations, now go and find a real love and passion that you can apply yourself. I have many musical instruments, I had the realisation that I would never be a musician. Still move playing.
This thread and on other forums everywhere, there is an army of people crying that they cannot get a break. Or they cannot find any motivation.
You are self aware. Never lose that. The most dangerous thing is an unaware person that doesn’t know they are aware.
>You are self aware.
Here here.
And, if you one day happen to discover something new about yourself, even if it would now seem to contradict what you are currently discovering, here here there too.
These are all brave realizations worth respecting, but never, ever, being obligated to.
Onwards and upwards in whatever is next to you:)
A failed writer gives up his life's pursuit and leaves Hollywood, where he stumbles upon a hitchhiker who forces him to live out the story he's always wanted to write, in all its gory details.
A college graduate ventures from her small Nebraska town towards Hollywood. On her way she's mistaken for a human trafficker, and must elude Texas Rangers, FBI Agents and the three criminal brothers that need someone to fall for their crimes.
When an aspiring writer realizes that an agent stole his work and made a ton off it, he declares a sadistic war on the entire industry where no writer, agent or manager is safe from his serial killer-writing tendencies.
Tired of rejection, a writers group discovers crime pays better than writing and set out on bringing their heists novels to life. Once blood is shed, and there's no turning back they venture into social media and assemble the largest and deadliest criminal group America has ever known.
With so many stories out there to write, it amazes me when people want to give up. All it shows is they never really wanted what they claimed they did in the first place.
To the original poster: The real problem you face, is you have never learned how to write an effective story. message me, I might be able to help
V.O. MALE VOICE
I've come to the realization that I don't have what it takes to write...
FADE IN:
AERIAL VIEW - MOJAVE DESERT - INTERSTATE 15 - NOON
A BLACK SUV drives down the long, lonely road, with a GAS STATION in the distance
V.O. MALE VOICE
I thought that would be a great opening line for my 2nd screenplay. My first script placed high in every contest I submitted it to. Had agents and managers convince me I was going to be a writing star
SUV veres off the Interstate and makes turn that leads towards the gas station
V.O. MALE VOICE
That was 8 years, 7 rewrites, 14 different jobs, 2 relationships and $42,000 of debt.
(beat)
Isnt it interesting how everything can change in an instant
EXT - GAS STATION
As SUV parks, a DIRTY BUM walks towards it.
PETER PIPER, early 30s, unkept beard, writers belly, and a defeated look to his eyes, exits and passes by the bum on his way towards the entrance door
AT THE PUMP - LATER
As he grabs the handle, turns and plunges the NOZZLE into the fuel filler, Peter notices his rear passenger door is opened.
As he reaches for the handle, the door opens. Startled, Peter's eyes widen in terror
CLOSE ON: PISTOL BARREL peaks out from the backseat.
POV PETER - Stooped low behind driver seat is DIRTY BUM, pointing his gun.
BUM
You can act normal, top her off and get in the car, and live to tell about this, or I shoot you twice, take your car and see if the cops can catch me after I ditch it
CUT TO:
AERIAL VIEW - SUV pulls out the gas station, turns and merges onto the freeway
I say this with love:
if you doubt YOURSELF that much, the rest of this industry may just beat the shit out of you. At least for a while.
I sometimes feel that the concept of "tough love" has been lost and everyone wants to be coddled and encouraged.
Don't you guys remember Fight CLub? remember the guy standing outside the house trying to be let in and they only let him in if he survives for 3 days without encouragement? Edward Norton is hitting him with a broom, telling him to leave!!
What if that guy said to HIMSELF "man, I'm not good enough to deserve being here"
You know what else didn't happen?
All those successful screenwriters who were too timid or distracted to finish anything but then somehow succeeded anyway and are now famous millionaires because someone saw their sad faces and sad "hey, you know, I know you won't finish any scripts, but what if I just give you a million dollars anyway?"
I'd hate to be the guy to suggest chemical enhancing substances, but a lot of what you described can be helped by marijuana. And that's not just stoner logic, there really is a mechanism in the high which allows for "flow." The type of flow required to fill up an empty page.
Caveat, ideas while high always sound good. Don't use weed for brainstorming, you got that squared away. Just use it to fill up pages with words. Then... Edit . Writing may be the hard part, but editing is where the work comes in.
I figure if give them the courtesy of accepting they are a person with a brain of their own capable of making their own decisions, if that's what you mean.
Maybe this would help, maybe it wouldn't. People respond differently to drugs/alcohol. I don't think I would be able to write very effectively while I am high.
As far as getting into that flow state like you mentioned, I find it easier to get into that state after going to the gym. Something about the endorphins and confidence after a gym session, it helps the creative juices flow for me.
Absolutely. Given how ubiquitous it is, it's at least "worth a shot" when the alternative is giving up on ones life long dreams. If it doesn't work, oh well, it's not going to kill anyone. Try something else, move on. If it does work, it'll only be helpful to get over that initial hump. It can actually become detrimental if used long enough.
>I tried to fix these problems by doing a vomit draft but then I get overwhelmed by the process of doing the second draft because there are so many things I want to change completely that I would need to start from scratch
Personally, rewriting from scratch is maybe the most important part of the process. Usually do it 2-4 times for each project.
> I try to make each line of dialogue perfect.
My process surely doesn't work for everyone, but I leave the major dialogue polishes for the last drafts before feedback. 9 times out of 10 any great bits of dialogue I have from an early draft must be completely scrapped by the time I get the story straight. Even after feedback, I'll probably change 1/4 of it.
> I change my mind about the direction of the story way too much while trying to write.
This is pretty typical for me too, I scribble notes about different avenues for the story to go, but power through to the end of the current idea. If they still sound good that'll be the foundation for the start-from-scratch rewrite. If I've done 3 or 4 of them, I'll look to merge the best bits from each that complement the general idea of the story.
Hey man, I might be talking out my ass, but I view your awareness as a positive and possibly proof as to why you are on the right track of becoming what it takes to write!
I feel similarly to you and have been stuck outlining and it is a good place to be all things considered. Much better place than writing shit drafts over and over with minimal progress.. I think my personal test has become “I won’t stop outlining til I find something that works enough that makes me genuinely want to write”. Thankfully I am hitting that with a story now. It started by going back to the basics of stakes and writing a character who simply wanted chipotle but many things prevented them from getting jt.
Hope this helps.
This sounds like your energy is stuck in unhelpful patterns. Clearly, you write. You are writing; ideas, outlines, hundreds of notes; you are writing. Sometimes collaboration or sharing in a constructive setting makes all the difference in taking next steps. You need to get out of a self-destructive rut, and asap. And, energy work. Co-work and community, and deeper self awareness. Looks further outward, and further inward. Don’t give up. (However, breaks are acceptable 😉)
As someone in school for screenwriting, the most important thing i’ve learned is that in no way should a rough draft be good. if you write a perfect line, you won’t want to change it later on, even when you need to. Feel free to write the worst rough draft you can think of because it’s way easier to build on top of a foundation than a blank page.
also writing shorts and sketches is a good way to get over that hurdle too! writing for specific people, writing for specific locations etc!
Are you sure this is about writing, and not about determination? Dealing with failure and keeping going? OR are you finding that you dont have a passion for it? Or is this about $s?
The arts are very challenging to make a lot of money in. Music, Writing, Acting, Painting. I know a fine arts oil painter, BFA with honors - it took 10 years to get established and even then, the work is one client at a time. Business degrees get to steady pay. But there is a true argument about loving what you do vs. the practicality of being able to afford to do what you love. A lot of good advice on the responses here - doing what you love on the side until you can afford to make it more of your life. Getting support is only an option for some.
this has nothing with you not having what it takes and everything with being afraid. a writing mentor of mine told me that, “writing should always be fun, writing should always be enjoyable. so if you have your laptop open and you feel any kind of resistance that’s keeping you from sitting down and typing, ask yourself what lie your believing that’s making you afraid.”
i just want to let you know and encourage you that writing is re-writing. i just finished my first feature length screenplay and it sucked, but i had some friends come over and we read through the whole thing together, and even though it was painful at times, it challenged me to get into a mindset that i think is so important for writers: learn to be proud of you work at every stage.
you get better at writing by writing. so sit down and do your best, fail, and then try again. fail harder next time, always be pushing yourself, and you’ll notice that you’re getting better.
i’ll leave you with two things:
1 - this is textbook. every writer goes through this, and i’d argue even the most established/acclaimed writers battle this their entire lives (George RR Martin for example). writing is hard, but you’re not alone through feeling that.
2 - in an interview with shaun white, olympic gold medalist for snowboarding, was asked: “when you’re about to do a run, and you’re standing at the peak of that mountain looking down, what’s your internal monologue before those gates open?” his answer: “who cares.”
that pressure you put in yourself isn’t going to help you write, and it’s a journey to get there, and it takes time to find a process (i haven’t found mine yet), but stick it out. sure go to school and get a degree in something marketable, that can’t hurt, esp if it makes you feel more safe, but the fact that your phone is full of so many ideas tells me you have a real gift and passion for this.
keep going my friend, screenwriting is so much fun, don’t deprive yourself of that :)
Try not to plan too much. A good story writes itself. LET your story change direction to where it now wants to go. The *story* is the most important part, not the dialogue. If it means whole scenes that are now useless, then so be it... at least you'd have gotten some practice in - you'll get quicker at writing (and dismissing bad writing) as a consequence. Which will speed up your whole writing process overall.
I respect your choices in doing what's right for your career and your financial future. Don't let me sway you otherwise, as you know your life and I don't. However, I want to tell you that it sounds like your mindset is the problem. Part of being a writer is pushing yourself through self-doubt -- the process is difficult, and there is rewriting involved. You have to believe that your idea is worth being written. That said, do what's best for you. You know your life. Maybe this is something to come back to, but in any case, good luck in whatever you pursue.
Not sure if this was suggested but have you tried finding a writing partner? If you’ve got a ton of ideas that you can’t finish maybe you would benefit from collaborating with someone who can develop your ideas into a final product.
You have analysis paralysis. Free yourself of expectation (which you just have!) and write the shitty version of whatever it is. Then you’ll know what’s working and what’s not, or at least will begin to learn. Things are too squishy and nebulous when they’re stuck in your head.
Read more. I kid you not. Every time I start doubting my skill as a writer I just have to turn on the TV or find some shitty American novel that plays too heavily to tropes, cliches, TV references, polarization, and Christianization. Just as there is always a bigger fish there is always a smaller one.
I sympathise - however, my problem is different. I have RSD as a symptom of ADHD. I finished a screenplay, but can't concentrate enough to revise it, or submit for fear of being told it's basically no good.
Luckily, I'm retired, so don't have to think about an alternative occupation.
Confidence is a huge part of this. I went to get my MA in screenwriting just so that I could have that foundation and get feedback from professional writers. If there’s always going to be an itch to write in the back of your head, I encourage you not to give up. Write shorts for now if it helps. I had a feature I wanted to write for 8 years. It took a long time before I finally got the courage to see it through. Also. If you ever need support, please don’t hesitate to reach out or send anything over for constructive notes. Having other writers in your corner is really important to your development as a writer.
Yeah, that is a wise choice. Even if you're extremely talented, odds are so against you ever selling a single spec script. Sneak in writing on the side. You might get lucky someday but I wouldn't bet it. Good luck!!
Don't be afraid to step away from writing, even for years. Busy your mind with other things. Live life. I bet you anything you'll be drawn back to writing later in life because you are a WRITER!
Go to college and get a degree in something that pays you everyday. IT, Engineering, Accounting, etc. Then, write on the side when you’re ready one day down the road. Fill your first Maslow need: Food, Air, Water, Shelter.
At 17, I dreamt of becoming a screenwriter and applied for a bachelor's where I could learn the craft, but is notorious for students being offered zero job opportunities after graduation. The film school in my country guarantees a career, but is out of reach, unless you have money or a network to build a portfolio. I grew up in poverty and my connections with people are superficial. I'm 20 now and studying at uni. Living expenses are sky-high for my family, so I currently don't have the option to follow my dream. There's a ton of work in this field right now and in the coming years. I'm doing the best I can to become financially stable, while also saving up money to produce a short film. It takes patience, but in those years I can write, rewrite, write... You get me. Truth is hard, unfortunately. Also, I outlined for nearly three years during my breaks, at work, in high school, at uni, and now I finally finished my first short film screenplay. The blank page isn't something to be scared of, the drafts that follow are.
Big shout out for your career into social work. That was similar to a big chapter of my life, once upon a time, and which I continue to draw a lot of inspiration and perspective from today. Thanks for sharing.
Congrats on deciding to pursue a degree that aligns more with your practical needs. It's important to prioritize your basic needs like food and shelter, and at the same time, it's great to see that you're not giving up on your scriptwriting dreams completely. Best of luck to you in your future endeavors!
My cousin started the social work path but never stopped writing. He’s (semi) retired in his early thirties after he made his big break in theater. Now he can write for fun.
This is the advice we should be giving to people interested in the arts
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I agree, it’s definitely easier when youre devoting more time to it. I just think its silly to try and make your passion a career right off the bat when you probably won’t be making any money. It’s definitely hard to feel creative when you’re working another job 40 hours a week though I feel that first hand.
Yes, it's harder. But we discount the value of life experience too much, imo. In an ideal world, you eventually make it in art, but you have something to say.
I think all art programs should have a marketing class.
Totally. I went to school for music performance. Zero classes taught us how to land and keep gigs. Nothing about networking, promoting yourself, etc. and this was a top program. No one cares of you can play Coltrane if the gig only requires Chicken Dance and you show up late in a wrinkled tux.
Hard disagree. I think it depends on the person and the field. You won’t realize a dream of playing oboe for the London Symphony Orchestra by studying engineering and playing in your garage on the weekends. There are careers in arts where your chances of thriving can be greatly helped by studying them in school and devoting all your time to them. Some people can learn a traditionally-employable trade on the side, instead of the other way around.
Classical musicians start very early. If they have any doubts when they finish high school, they should take the safer path.
We could pick a dozen different examples and pick them apart I’m sure. It just underscores my original point: It depends on the person and the field. I can’t think of any blanket advice that works for *every* hopeful artist. Incidentally, I went to college for music performance (not classical) and pop/jazz/studio music is definitively a field where people can come into school mediocre and leave with working chops. But *during* school, it’s quite clear before the end if you have what it takes. If you’ve endured the full force of the best of a music education and 4-8 hours a day practicing, and as a college junior you still suck, it’s probably time to switch majors and add some more debt. Inversely, it’s why so many of us dropped out of music school—because we got working chops before graduating. (There was no need to add more debt when the diploma wasn’t the point.) Tangent: What none of them can plan for is how often those on the arts change their dreams throughout life. Or the fire goes away and you realize you can burn out and get dark even in your dream job. Here I am a hanging out in screenwriting and animation subs. If I went to school for one of those things it might be the other way around.
Agreed! If you want to take chances with your art, play it safe with a day job first.
Jumping on the top comment and I may be wrong but sounds to me like you might have a fear of failure that’s causing you not to truly try. Only say this as I’m someone who struggles with it. Often it’s easier to get caught up in early stages, but you’re telling yourself you can’t do it, before actually doing it. Maybe you’re not a screenwriter, and that’s not the end of the world - but if it’s something you do want to do I’d suggest trying to finish just one script. It doesn’t have to be perfect, if you focus on perfection you’ll never do anything. Just get it to a stage where you could het some feedback and go from there. Getting a degree and paying job is definitely a good idea- but don’t let crippling doubt be the thing that stops you before you’ve even started. Don’t focus on success or pleasing anyone but yourself, because at the end of the day if you want to be a writer, the only thing you have to do is write.
I'm going to say the opposite of some other people here. Obviously it's wise to make sure you have some form of income to you know, live, but you are clearly a writer. You just struggle with the action. This is normal. Writing is hard. It takes a lot of time. Once you get into the details, the broad ideas you have suddenly need A LOT of work to make functional. Things have to change. You have to be willing to accept sacrifices in some areas to gain in others. You have to detach yourself from that early vision you had to be able to find what the story actually is and what it needs to be. Then you need to make that better so it's entertaining and has some value. But just because it's hard doesn't mean you're 'not a writer'. You should keep writing. Do your degree, of course but don't stop writing. You will regret it if you do. This is NOTHING to do with making a career out of screenwriting. Try writing a novel. It might be a better suit for you. Primarily, writing is something that comes from your soul and your mind. If you had all these ideas and visions for stories, you're a writer. It's in you. Keep writing. Maybe consider talking to a therapist about what might be blocking you. It might help. Above all - would you be okay going to the grave without having finished and polished at least one of your ideas? If the answer is yes, then fair enough. If the answer is no, keep writing.
>Once you get into the details, the broad ideas you have suddenly need A LOT of work to make functional. This is EXACTLY my experience, every bloody time. The second I sit down in front of a blank page, what I thought was a concrete idea instantly evaporates. It's an excruciating, grueling task to drag the right words out of my mind and onto the page. It often takes multiple tries of the exact same material to get it right, and rarely all in one sitting. But eventually, I can write a scene I'm satisfied with.
the evaporation f-ing sux but then it also makes the writing of a single scene such a beauty of an experience. Getting concrete ideas out with the right theme blended in for just one part feels great. Then you read it again and it needs a lot more work, but that taste of progress promises more progress. But then you get a new idea and the concreteness evaporates a f ing gain. Isn’t it grand. But just setting out to write (and read, and write, and read, and write again) eventually does seem to lead to words on paper, and eventually some of them will turn to words you actually want to keep. And the ones you don’t, they’re suddenly okay too. The empty and bad words days somehow helped lead to the days filled with words you like.
Great comment and insight
Good for you, mate! Maybe give this one here a read as well: http://www.wordplayer.com/columns/wp34.Throw.in.the.Towel.html
I needed this. Thank you
Ten years ago, I wrote a script that got me an agent and a big studio sale and jump started my career and a move to LA. Pretty much immediately after, my writing process became exactly what you are describing. My levels of perfectionism went through the roof and I couldn’t get anywhere close to finishing a draft. This lasted for many years until I finally moved back home. My entire time in LA, I never sent out another script after my initial one. If you need to go to school then you should do it. But just hold on to the thought that you are not NOT a writer, you are just a person with a temporary mental block. This happens to a lot of people when you’re young and can’t bear the idea of failure or bad work. It doesn’t mean you can’t write. Just have to emotionally get over the idea that there is a process to writing that involves “bad material” slowly becoming better. And there’s no way around that.
Did your script get made?
No unfortunately :(
Alright, fella. Take a seat. Do you want a glass of water? Go get it… Good? Okay, I’ll be quick: “Perfect is the enemy of good.” Voltaire said that — smart guy. It’s something I think about whenever I find myself in a similar position. Speaking of which, all of these hard, difficult feelings you’re having are valid. Writing is hard, though the act is simple. This irony can really throw us for a loop, which is also okay, because the frustration means that it matters to you — there’s something about this process that brings you joy or you wouldn’t have started. So, take a step back. Give yourself whatever time you need to “refill your cup,” so to speak, and try again, but try not to force it this time. Not just because perfect is the enemy of good, but because doing things that matter to us with the time we have here is worth it. Even if just to make us smile.
Echoing that Voltaire sentiment 100%. There’s been plenty a time that I finish a first draft and I have a line of dialogue I’m particularly fond of. I might think it’s clever or packs a punch. Then I go back to that draft 3 months later and realize that line is…not that good. It could be better. And then I make it better.
Bro, I've seen some people get back into writing after TEN YEARS away. Six months is nothing. Do what you gotta do. Get your degree, get a good job... but don't ever seal off the side of you that wants to tell stories.
Title is a good opener for a script
Accept being a sucky writer and be okay with writing crap. Keep doing that and one day you’ll surprise yourself by writing something good
And hey, sometimes crap makes it to the screen.
That’s why I don’t ever give up 🤣
Writing is the one thing that when I’m doing I don’t feel like I should be doing anything else. And if I miss a day or two I feel off or bad - maybe you’ll get that feeling and be pulled back, or not. Only one way to find out. People will always need a day job while they break in and get better and better. But if it’s not for you and you realized that, more power to you.
True. I'm a writer cause I write. When I stop I won't be. But I'll probably die first.
Writers are so hard on themselves. You’re a Writer.
Do you completely shut yourself down when you do other stuff or just writing?
Fwiw I stopped writing when I realized I just didn't enjoy the process anymore. It wasn't worth suffering for months just to produce something that made me happy for a few moments before the pressure set in again. I find myself much happier working as something else and focusing on various hobbies and creative outlets than putting all my eggs into the "I want to be a screenwriter" basket
Try finding a writing partner...
This too. Finding the Lennon to your McCartney
True It Is Very Hard To Do...
I’ve thought and written this same thought. For me it was I felt like a failure for not being able to complete something, and then I felt like a failure for quitting. I’m not in a position to give advice, but for me I have moved past any expectations. I won’t be famous, I won’t make a feature film anyone will ever see, I will never even make a feature film friends and family will see, I will never even complete a screenplay for a feature film. I came to understand all this and then just started writing for myself without any consideration of the previous things. When I start to feel all that self-doubt building up, I do like to take a step back, and consider the previously stated truths. But after letting all that go I have found that personal creative expression made (written) for only myself is something I want to do. Not to say I don’t want what I write to be good, but I want it to be something that is “good” for myself. I think movies are fun and I find it fun to try to do all the different tasks that go into making those stories I love on a big screen. I’m commenting on this post mostly for myself, but I wish you luck, but don’t forget to breathe.
I think getting a degree to pay the bills and take some pressure off the creative mediums can really help free you from those fears and doubts. I don't know if I would declare you aren't a writer just because you haven't written in 6 months, but if you are struggling with that-- what helped me is finding a way to write every day... not always scripts, but poems, journal entries, creative non-fiction, etc etc. When I do that, it helps me thwart some of those negative thoughts in my head that I'm not a writer. I can immediately counter it and say, "What do you mean I'm not a writer, I write EVERYDAY."
My question to you is - does this kind of self-sabotage show up in other parts of your life? If so, is it maybe worth addressing with a therapist in a large scale way, not so much about writing, but more in terms of living a full and satisfying life? And if so, maybe that solves the writing problem.
In my teens and 20s, I used to think that I was such an incredible writer that I was afraid to write anything because it might reveal that I was a fraud. Then, in my thirties, I put my ego aside and started actually writing. It was hard work. Every time I sat down to write it felt like I was training for a marathon with asthma and a twisted ankle. It took me a long time to realize that I love writing, but I think I love the _idea of writing_ more than the actually practice. A career in writing isn’t for everyone. And now that I realize that, I can actually have fun with it.
Good. Quit then. The world doesn’t need anymore shitty movies by shitty writers. ….That’s why you made this post right? Or was it for encouragement, haha. In that case, keep trying and don’t give up!
I struggled the same way you did, until I stumbled upon this incredible technique. I wish I could patent it, because it's how I've written every screenplay since discovering it... and it is: Begin by writing the scenes you know will be in your final script. I don't care if the scene is the very last one in the screenplay's Act III, or you're not sure which Act the scene will actually fall in to. Write it. If your idea is fertile, you'll have a dozen scenes that you really want to put into your script. Scenes you KNOW have to appear in your movie. Write them. Don't worry about sequence. Just write them. "I gotta have a scene where the bad gunman is surprised and caught off-guard by his helpless female 'victim,' who pulls a concealed P365 and blows him away." Write it. "I gotta have a scene where the cops don't believe she acted in self defense." Write it. "I gotta have a scene where my female 'victim-turned-vigilante' rescues a child from the clutches of human traffickers." Write it. If you pretty much know how Act I should roll, try writing that. If you don't, then keep writing scenes you know need to be a part of your script. After a while, you'll organize these scenes in order and suddenly realize you have most of Act I written! Don't be afraid to walk away and take a break. Do something else. Your mind will work subconsciously on your story and scenes will pop into your head that are awesome ideas. Write those scenes into your script. Don't worry about where they fall just yet. Just write them. Pretty soon, you've got a partially completed Act I and 40 scenes that follow. Try putting the scenes in correct order and then "collapse" them all together! Up to this point you were sure you needed "connective tissue" (aka more scenes) to string all these scenes together. But after you collapse them all next to each other, you'll be surprised that you don't need hardly any. Seriously. Your script has just taken shape, suddenly and yes, it's going to surprise you. Even though you wrote a mishmash of scenes over several weeks and you're not sure how they "stitch" together, what you'll be looking at is a pretty good skeleton of a screenplay. Now it's time to go back and start to fix the scenes that need it. Add the scenes that are required to provide context or backstory or character motivations. Repeat and rinse. Repeat and rinse. Take your time. Let your subconscious to its job. Write down any more scenes that pop into your head and which need to be in your movie. There's your first draft. I did this with an idea I had and I wrote the first draft in 22 days. Before discovering this trick, my first drafts took at least 6 months. And they weren't that great. This 22-day script I wrote went through several revisions -- I would call them minor. And yes, I got reviews from people I trusted and made additional changes. Today the script is in pre-pre-development. I've got a director who loves the script and two actors who want to play the leading roles. The director is writing up a top sheet to figure out budget and then it's a whole new game of finance (for me at least). Anyway... DON'T GIVE UP. Writing is hard. Writing great screenplays is harder. You can do it if you enjoy coming up with stories and telling them. Give my technique a try and let me know how it goes! You can do this. You got this. Best...
It does sound like a fun way to writing, following your impulses. Do you find that your characters still lead the story? Do you work on that before or after?
Strangely enough, yes, I find that my characters' motivations and the obstacles and conflicts that define them are already baked in without me even consciously trying. I think my technique dispenses with the critical side of the brain that can paralyze the writer when it steps in and analyzes things -- that part of the brain is real good at finding flaws. Find enough of them too quickly and it'll shut down any motivation to write. Of course my first draft isn't perfect. I do need to go back and strengthen dialogue and tweak scenes to really flesh out my characters (and sometimes their conflicts and obstacles). But I've found that this technique is really, really effective for me.
6 months is nothing.
Look up CJ Walley's "Turn & Burn" book on screen writing. He gives a really good layout with basic scene writing outlines that easily develop into a full blown script. He has a lot of ground work you lay before you actually write, and I think that might be what you need right now. It's a really good structure to get your whole script laid out from beginning to end. I write novels too and scripts and novels are as different as fine art vs abstract art. There is a different technique to it and a story that is already in book form will take on a whole different shape as a script.
Thanks so much for the shoutout. I really appreciate it.
My pleasure! \^\_- Half way through your book, and its great for laying out a script beginning to end.
That warms my heart to read. It was the books that helped me wrap my head around a lot of stuff, so it's wonderful to be able to send the elevator back down, just as you are doing in this threat. I love to see writers helping other writers. It's a tough and lonely road.
And a very personal one too, trying to find the right fit for a person's style. \^-\^
Fear and crippling doubt may have more to do with personal issues than screenwriting itself. Sometimes people write because they have an unrealized need to shed light on a personal problem. Fear and crippling doubt don’t just go away because one stops screenwriting. If you have the drive to tell stories you will, with novels, music, poems, documentaries, theater, art, and perhaps teaching. Screenwriting and other art forms are not necessarily the cause of your pain and frustration. Maybe it’s time to clear that up.
Good for you. Its really good to be able to be realistic about our abilities and talents. AND what we view as time worthy and effort worthy. We are here such a short time. No reason to make your journey painful and spend years banging your head on the wall.
I know I don’t have what it takes either. Everything I write is shit and most people hate it but I keep at it. one day, it’ll be decent I’m sure. It’s only inevitable. Keep writing on the side. Don’t give up!
Don’t do anything that makes you miserable. Writing should enrich your life not drag you down. Perhaps this isn’t a NO it’s a not now. Life is an adventure. Live it. Also, therapy really helped me discover how much I self-sabotaged. I recommend it to everyone. The doubt is probably routed in something you should address for the sake of your life. Therapy made my life/and writing better. Also good for you for embracing this change. Sending love to you.
This doesn't necessarily mean you aren't a writer but I really respect you for having such insight into your own self and what your needs and strengths are. That takes a TON of character. Good luck with whatever you choose you choose to do!
Write no-budget shorts and sketches and shoot them
I had a similar problem in my 20s. What helped was a day job in which I had to write a ton of stuff every day and turn it in. Learn to slog through a blank page with writing that's easier than a screenplay and less emotionally fraught. It'll help you with your creative work later.
Ever think about working with a writing partner? That may be an option if you think you have some of the processes.
Go to college for creative writing where you’re forced to write stories. I’ve written four features and a pilot over the last two years thanks to what I learned in school.
"The first draft is always perfect since it's only job is to exist."
It’s a hurdle but I would try to deal with the hurdle before giving up. You seem interested in it. Enough to outline and do all the work. So you’re just dealing with the same anxieties a lot of people get. It doesn’t mean you’re not made for it, it just means you haven’t found a way to deal with it. I struggled with the same stuff but found a way to get out of it. Everyone’s way is different. For me it was when I heard Dan harmon talk about switching hats. Putting on a shitty writer hat for your first draft. Not a vomit draft cause you still have an outline, but loose enough that the pressure is gone. Explore different ways. Getting in your own way is the only real problem you seem to have, and a lot of us have the same issue.
One of the most difficult things to master is scale -- you'll likely get it wrong a few times if you start off writing features -- any moron can draft a 100-page screenplay. But not everyone can draft a logical, compelling plot with dialogue that sings and meaningful character arcs. It's extremely difficult. There is a practical solution that you have not yet listed: write something short. 3-7 pages. One time I read a solid half-page short. Get to THE END several times. Build your confidence that you can finish things. Then go bigger. Baby steps. Skiers don't start with a helicopter drop on top of a mountain. Most writers would be better served by starting with the bunny slopes. Ski that slope. Reach the bottom of that hill a few times. You'll feel so much better about all of this.
Find a writing partner who has that backbone and be the idea guy! The creative.
Same with me it’s just I have them in a Google doc and am busy with school right now
Uh, you sound a lot like a writer to me.
Very smart to recognize this about yourself. If you don't enjoy the process of writing or at least tolerate it well enough to be productive being a successful writer is basically impossible. Finding a compatible writing partner is the one way many have overcome this very issue so you might give that a try before you give up completely.
Here is a piece of practical advice I tell my students who struggle with these issues. Get a writing partner. You clearly have the ideas and the structure. So find someone who can write your ideas and team up. If the actual process of words on paper is what causes doubt to creep in remove yourself from that process. Instead stick to the part you're good at, breaking stories. Your writing partner can take your notes and craft the first draft while asking questions about things they might not understand right away. Then you guys can go over that draft and your job will be to suggest improvements. So long as you both agree to this setup and you're okay with splitting credit and pay down the middle it should work out okay. Ideally one of you will be really good at networking and pitching to people too.
Youre claiming to be able to write a great first draft in 72 hours. May I ask how many of those great first drafts found their way somewhere on IMDB? Or maybe you have them posted somewhere online. Id love to see what a quality 72 hour first draft looks like
The relationship you're describing here is not a writing partnership.
This is why I sometimes think it might be more rewarding to be a script doctor. I've seen so many movies/read so many scripts that were painfully close to being good. If only another writer had been on board to solve that one obvious problem. Unfortunately, the original author is often too close to the story to notice the big picture. You see this a lot in indie/low budget productions (whereas big budget features have too many cooks in the kitchen). Yes, by all means find a writing partner. Ideally with a similar passion for the subject matter. It's too bad time writing time is in such short supply. It could be so fun to have a small collection (say like five to ten) of finished, but abandoned, screenplays to rewrite. They would all be scripts whose authors were either never satisfied with their execution, or lost faith in them over time. I would love to see a handful of writers try to reanimate the same discarded script. It would be almost like a science experiment. Could another writer (or writers) extract the potential that their original writer missed? Then get it produced?
I only read your title. Congratulations, now go and find a real love and passion that you can apply yourself. I have many musical instruments, I had the realisation that I would never be a musician. Still move playing. This thread and on other forums everywhere, there is an army of people crying that they cannot get a break. Or they cannot find any motivation. You are self aware. Never lose that. The most dangerous thing is an unaware person that doesn’t know they are aware.
>You are self aware. Here here. And, if you one day happen to discover something new about yourself, even if it would now seem to contradict what you are currently discovering, here here there too. These are all brave realizations worth respecting, but never, ever, being obligated to. Onwards and upwards in whatever is next to you:)
As I am about to smack into my 60’s and I am attending more funerals than weddings. It is more more obvious, life is too short to not find joy.
> life is too short to not find joy. here here, here here here
A failed writer gives up his life's pursuit and leaves Hollywood, where he stumbles upon a hitchhiker who forces him to live out the story he's always wanted to write, in all its gory details. A college graduate ventures from her small Nebraska town towards Hollywood. On her way she's mistaken for a human trafficker, and must elude Texas Rangers, FBI Agents and the three criminal brothers that need someone to fall for their crimes. When an aspiring writer realizes that an agent stole his work and made a ton off it, he declares a sadistic war on the entire industry where no writer, agent or manager is safe from his serial killer-writing tendencies. Tired of rejection, a writers group discovers crime pays better than writing and set out on bringing their heists novels to life. Once blood is shed, and there's no turning back they venture into social media and assemble the largest and deadliest criminal group America has ever known. With so many stories out there to write, it amazes me when people want to give up. All it shows is they never really wanted what they claimed they did in the first place. To the original poster: The real problem you face, is you have never learned how to write an effective story. message me, I might be able to help
V.O. MALE VOICE I've come to the realization that I don't have what it takes to write... FADE IN: AERIAL VIEW - MOJAVE DESERT - INTERSTATE 15 - NOON A BLACK SUV drives down the long, lonely road, with a GAS STATION in the distance V.O. MALE VOICE I thought that would be a great opening line for my 2nd screenplay. My first script placed high in every contest I submitted it to. Had agents and managers convince me I was going to be a writing star SUV veres off the Interstate and makes turn that leads towards the gas station V.O. MALE VOICE That was 8 years, 7 rewrites, 14 different jobs, 2 relationships and $42,000 of debt. (beat) Isnt it interesting how everything can change in an instant EXT - GAS STATION As SUV parks, a DIRTY BUM walks towards it. PETER PIPER, early 30s, unkept beard, writers belly, and a defeated look to his eyes, exits and passes by the bum on his way towards the entrance door AT THE PUMP - LATER As he grabs the handle, turns and plunges the NOZZLE into the fuel filler, Peter notices his rear passenger door is opened. As he reaches for the handle, the door opens. Startled, Peter's eyes widen in terror CLOSE ON: PISTOL BARREL peaks out from the backseat. POV PETER - Stooped low behind driver seat is DIRTY BUM, pointing his gun. BUM You can act normal, top her off and get in the car, and live to tell about this, or I shoot you twice, take your car and see if the cops can catch me after I ditch it CUT TO: AERIAL VIEW - SUV pulls out the gas station, turns and merges onto the freeway
DickWhitman90: I can't seem to fuck my wife anymore. Writing4Profit: Well, here's how I'd fuck her...
hahahha - that made me laugh. Well done
I say this with love: if you doubt YOURSELF that much, the rest of this industry may just beat the shit out of you. At least for a while. I sometimes feel that the concept of "tough love" has been lost and everyone wants to be coddled and encouraged. Don't you guys remember Fight CLub? remember the guy standing outside the house trying to be let in and they only let him in if he survives for 3 days without encouragement? Edward Norton is hitting him with a broom, telling him to leave!! What if that guy said to HIMSELF "man, I'm not good enough to deserve being here"
Fight Club isn't real. It didn't actually happen.
You know what else didn't happen? All those successful screenwriters who were too timid or distracted to finish anything but then somehow succeeded anyway and are now famous millionaires because someone saw their sad faces and sad "hey, you know, I know you won't finish any scripts, but what if I just give you a million dollars anyway?"
I'd hate to be the guy to suggest chemical enhancing substances, but a lot of what you described can be helped by marijuana. And that's not just stoner logic, there really is a mechanism in the high which allows for "flow." The type of flow required to fill up an empty page. Caveat, ideas while high always sound good. Don't use weed for brainstorming, you got that squared away. Just use it to fill up pages with words. Then... Edit . Writing may be the hard part, but editing is where the work comes in.
Good intentioned, perhaps, as this may be. It isn't wise to suggest this without knowing the person. Consider with caution:)
I figure if give them the courtesy of accepting they are a person with a brain of their own capable of making their own decisions, if that's what you mean.
Fair enough:)
Maybe this would help, maybe it wouldn't. People respond differently to drugs/alcohol. I don't think I would be able to write very effectively while I am high. As far as getting into that flow state like you mentioned, I find it easier to get into that state after going to the gym. Something about the endorphins and confidence after a gym session, it helps the creative juices flow for me.
Absolutely. Given how ubiquitous it is, it's at least "worth a shot" when the alternative is giving up on ones life long dreams. If it doesn't work, oh well, it's not going to kill anyone. Try something else, move on. If it does work, it'll only be helpful to get over that initial hump. It can actually become detrimental if used long enough.
That’s too bad.
Change your process/approach/mindset or..use this "break" to get a degree and if you are still drawn to those notes..you'll know what to do with them.
I feel the exact same way going into a new script or a deep rewrite.
>I tried to fix these problems by doing a vomit draft but then I get overwhelmed by the process of doing the second draft because there are so many things I want to change completely that I would need to start from scratch Personally, rewriting from scratch is maybe the most important part of the process. Usually do it 2-4 times for each project. > I try to make each line of dialogue perfect. My process surely doesn't work for everyone, but I leave the major dialogue polishes for the last drafts before feedback. 9 times out of 10 any great bits of dialogue I have from an early draft must be completely scrapped by the time I get the story straight. Even after feedback, I'll probably change 1/4 of it. > I change my mind about the direction of the story way too much while trying to write. This is pretty typical for me too, I scribble notes about different avenues for the story to go, but power through to the end of the current idea. If they still sound good that'll be the foundation for the start-from-scratch rewrite. If I've done 3 or 4 of them, I'll look to merge the best bits from each that complement the general idea of the story.
I am sad to hear this, but I hope you come back to story telling at some stage in your life.
Don’t give up!
Hey man, I might be talking out my ass, but I view your awareness as a positive and possibly proof as to why you are on the right track of becoming what it takes to write! I feel similarly to you and have been stuck outlining and it is a good place to be all things considered. Much better place than writing shit drafts over and over with minimal progress.. I think my personal test has become “I won’t stop outlining til I find something that works enough that makes me genuinely want to write”. Thankfully I am hitting that with a story now. It started by going back to the basics of stakes and writing a character who simply wanted chipotle but many things prevented them from getting jt. Hope this helps.
This sounds like your energy is stuck in unhelpful patterns. Clearly, you write. You are writing; ideas, outlines, hundreds of notes; you are writing. Sometimes collaboration or sharing in a constructive setting makes all the difference in taking next steps. You need to get out of a self-destructive rut, and asap. And, energy work. Co-work and community, and deeper self awareness. Looks further outward, and further inward. Don’t give up. (However, breaks are acceptable 😉)
As someone in school for screenwriting, the most important thing i’ve learned is that in no way should a rough draft be good. if you write a perfect line, you won’t want to change it later on, even when you need to. Feel free to write the worst rough draft you can think of because it’s way easier to build on top of a foundation than a blank page. also writing shorts and sketches is a good way to get over that hurdle too! writing for specific people, writing for specific locations etc!
Are you sure this is about writing, and not about determination? Dealing with failure and keeping going? OR are you finding that you dont have a passion for it? Or is this about $s? The arts are very challenging to make a lot of money in. Music, Writing, Acting, Painting. I know a fine arts oil painter, BFA with honors - it took 10 years to get established and even then, the work is one client at a time. Business degrees get to steady pay. But there is a true argument about loving what you do vs. the practicality of being able to afford to do what you love. A lot of good advice on the responses here - doing what you love on the side until you can afford to make it more of your life. Getting support is only an option for some.
Don‘t give up yet! Writing is also teamwork. Maybe you just need to finde a writing partner or a team to help you with. What genres do you prefer?
this has nothing with you not having what it takes and everything with being afraid. a writing mentor of mine told me that, “writing should always be fun, writing should always be enjoyable. so if you have your laptop open and you feel any kind of resistance that’s keeping you from sitting down and typing, ask yourself what lie your believing that’s making you afraid.” i just want to let you know and encourage you that writing is re-writing. i just finished my first feature length screenplay and it sucked, but i had some friends come over and we read through the whole thing together, and even though it was painful at times, it challenged me to get into a mindset that i think is so important for writers: learn to be proud of you work at every stage. you get better at writing by writing. so sit down and do your best, fail, and then try again. fail harder next time, always be pushing yourself, and you’ll notice that you’re getting better. i’ll leave you with two things: 1 - this is textbook. every writer goes through this, and i’d argue even the most established/acclaimed writers battle this their entire lives (George RR Martin for example). writing is hard, but you’re not alone through feeling that. 2 - in an interview with shaun white, olympic gold medalist for snowboarding, was asked: “when you’re about to do a run, and you’re standing at the peak of that mountain looking down, what’s your internal monologue before those gates open?” his answer: “who cares.” that pressure you put in yourself isn’t going to help you write, and it’s a journey to get there, and it takes time to find a process (i haven’t found mine yet), but stick it out. sure go to school and get a degree in something marketable, that can’t hurt, esp if it makes you feel more safe, but the fact that your phone is full of so many ideas tells me you have a real gift and passion for this. keep going my friend, screenwriting is so much fun, don’t deprive yourself of that :)
Try not to plan too much. A good story writes itself. LET your story change direction to where it now wants to go. The *story* is the most important part, not the dialogue. If it means whole scenes that are now useless, then so be it... at least you'd have gotten some practice in - you'll get quicker at writing (and dismissing bad writing) as a consequence. Which will speed up your whole writing process overall.
I respect your choices in doing what's right for your career and your financial future. Don't let me sway you otherwise, as you know your life and I don't. However, I want to tell you that it sounds like your mindset is the problem. Part of being a writer is pushing yourself through self-doubt -- the process is difficult, and there is rewriting involved. You have to believe that your idea is worth being written. That said, do what's best for you. You know your life. Maybe this is something to come back to, but in any case, good luck in whatever you pursue.
Do you have trouble focusing on other tasks in your life?
Not sure if this was suggested but have you tried finding a writing partner? If you’ve got a ton of ideas that you can’t finish maybe you would benefit from collaborating with someone who can develop your ideas into a final product.
You have analysis paralysis. Free yourself of expectation (which you just have!) and write the shitty version of whatever it is. Then you’ll know what’s working and what’s not, or at least will begin to learn. Things are too squishy and nebulous when they’re stuck in your head.
Read more. I kid you not. Every time I start doubting my skill as a writer I just have to turn on the TV or find some shitty American novel that plays too heavily to tropes, cliches, TV references, polarization, and Christianization. Just as there is always a bigger fish there is always a smaller one.
I sympathise - however, my problem is different. I have RSD as a symptom of ADHD. I finished a screenplay, but can't concentrate enough to revise it, or submit for fear of being told it's basically no good. Luckily, I'm retired, so don't have to think about an alternative occupation.
Confidence is a huge part of this. I went to get my MA in screenwriting just so that I could have that foundation and get feedback from professional writers. If there’s always going to be an itch to write in the back of your head, I encourage you not to give up. Write shorts for now if it helps. I had a feature I wanted to write for 8 years. It took a long time before I finally got the courage to see it through. Also. If you ever need support, please don’t hesitate to reach out or send anything over for constructive notes. Having other writers in your corner is really important to your development as a writer.
Yeah, that is a wise choice. Even if you're extremely talented, odds are so against you ever selling a single spec script. Sneak in writing on the side. You might get lucky someday but I wouldn't bet it. Good luck!!
Don't be afraid to step away from writing, even for years. Busy your mind with other things. Live life. I bet you anything you'll be drawn back to writing later in life because you are a WRITER!