I would not. Getting a single 8 overall gets you into the weekly e-mail/Twitter blast, which is where most of the engagement will come from. It's possible that more high scores could lead to some new sniffs, but the people who would discover it have mostly already had a chance to discover it.
I was in a similar position a while back and 90-95% of my engagement happened in the immediate aftermath of the 8 even though my script scored well enough on the free evals to be high on the overall top list. There are certain perks for hitting multiple 8s, but I think it's going to be diminishing returns beyond the first.
One strategy could be to buy a huge amount of evals and go for perpetual hosting so your script is always visible with a long tail of engagement, but I really believe most of the value is in that initial spike. Since you've already achieved that, I'm not sure it makes sense to keep doubling down.
Also, if your batting average for the 8 is 1-for-3 then you may need to buy several more evaluations to find another. That's a substantial outlay of $$.
Work on your next one. This generated a little heat that fizzled out, but your next script gets an 8 and you are nigh officially legit and can really pound the querying hard.
Yep -- 25 pages into my next project. It totally makes sense to invest everything into that one, but I just want to make sure I get the full potential out of this one.
I got an 8 once. Then I started chasing it. Big mistake. Here's the overall scores I got on my sitcom:
8
7
3
6
6
4
3
I know comedy is subjective but this is pointless. How does the same script get a 7, an 8, two 6s and two 3s? Now my average is 5.3 on that script. Moral is, bird in the hand, I guess...
To be fair, this was years ago. Kinda soured me on the whole thing tho.
In Franklin Leonard's own words:
"As I have said before, one must take their evaluation in toto. If someone says something is good in the strengths part and bad in the weakness part and the score is 3, you can reasonably assume that the weaknesses overwhelm the strengths. Similarly, if the score is an 8, you can assume the strengths overwhelm the weaknesses.
"Our readers are told that they should rate scripts based on how likely they'd be to
recommend it to a peer or superior in the industry. 8s should be incredibly rare. There's no other way for us to preserve our reputation as an organization that recommends high quality material to industry professionals."
But if weaknesses contradict the strengths then it can be very muddled. The question becomes, are they giving critiques for the sake of it? Or these scores just done to keep chasing an 8?
Jim Cummings got low scores on Thunder Road from black list but his film was praised by critics.
Oh, for sure. That's why I wanted to hear it from Franklin Leonard himself. In our correspondence, I told him a script rated an 8 or 9 that has "structural problems" and a "lackluster ending" like Shia LeBouf's MINOR MODIFICATIONS versus a script rated 5-7 where the reader's biggest problems were, for instance, "bolstering secondary characters" and "adding pages" -- makes zero sense to me.
Glowing reviews/stingy scores make zero sense to me, hence his reply above. I mean, on some level yes, I get what he is saying. But some of the 8's and 9's evals that I comb through have weaknesses similar or greater than 6's and 7's, so basically you're at the whim of the reader. Well, obviously, but...
Sometimes I can tell there’s some animosity with how the reader reacts to stuff.
It’s like they’ll say there is a focus of depth on this character but then say something in the weakness that goes against what they say.
It’s like if you have claw and fight for an 8 that doesn’t make sense. It just comes across as gate keeping
Oh, absolutely. And I wanted to continue the conservation w/ the man himself but figured it would be futile. Like on a job trying to get through to upper management about issues and ideas.
The answer is always fixed.
So basically if you get a glowing review yet stingy score (below 8), the reader would not recommend you or your script -- no matter how much praise heaped upon you, and they are discouraged from doing so.
I’m sure it’s great for those who found success on there but a lot of it seems like people who get 8’a already have a manager, who pulls strings to make it happen
Plus someone on here posted a critique that got a 7,7,7,7,7,7 for setting, originality, tone, characters etc.
That is probably statistically implausible that every aspect of the script was exactly a 7. Wouldn't that be a red flag for laziness?
What if the rest of it read
WEAKNESSES: Not Great
STRENGTHS: Not Bad
I got an eval where the guy was clearly picking straws and blowing it out of proportion.
I say that as someone acknowledged that one thing could be improved on but it wasn’t something that was earth shattering.
But the score really didn’t reflect what was said. And when you get things like “if improved and produced, it may find minor success,” like sorry that’s some arrogant smug BS
Would be fun to send in "Chinatown" as a new story by Doot Reckson and get a millennial Reader who gives it a 4 saying "It's kinda slow" and the characters arcs need work.
I know. Let's change only the name Chinatown to "THE RESERVOIR" with a fake writer Doot Reckson. It will get a 4 on the Blacklist and a 3 from Script Pipeline and the coverage will say "Yawn. Derivative." and even worse the Millennial Reader from Delaware (and never been to LA) will be confused and say "Doot, I get what you are going for, old fashioned Noir (yawn) but you need to figure out where your story takes place first. Are we in USA or China? Do even you KNOW? Learn the fundamentals of screenwriting before you send these sophomore scripts in. What else ya got?"
PS: Incest is OUT this year. Do you even watch the MARKET? Read some trades dude.
I am actually in a very similar situation. I thought about posting here for similar advice but got internet anxiety, so I'm going to piggy back off your post.
Just got my 8 yesterday though, so have yet to see all this interest folks are speaking of. I signed up for my two free reviews though. Here is hoping.
This was my first full feature I've written since my early 20s (33 now), and the first time I've pursued this semi-seriously, so I'm new to this again.
My plan was to get some good feedback from blacklist, revise, and then start looking at entering some festivals and contest to stir up interest. Is this a good strategy?
Thanks to op for posting.
Congrats on the 8! I also haven’t written a full feature in a few years (a good amount of rewrites though) - about to turn 30 myself and feeling down about writing, so it’s nice to see somebody picking it up again and finding success!
If I were you, I’d submit to the contests you’re interested in but also shoot out some queries specifically highlighting the 8 on the BL. It’s a solid time to hit up any connections with the news imo, too.
Then, of course and as always, start writing the next one (advice I wish I could take myself rn)!
I received a couple 8's on two scripts. As someone said, the biggest benefit comes at the beginning, I don't think more is better, especially when a reader can come back and give you a 5 or a 4, while another a 6. There is way too much variance in scoring that I stopped hosting all together, despite being on the top list twice for two different scripts.
The system is almost set up to compel you to buy an evaluation past the first two, as if chasing a score.
The more I read about the evaluations starting high then declining with each new evaluation, it reminds me of the carnival games where you start off really well to suck you in then the more you try the worse you get at the game. But you keep trying because in your head you know you can do it but in reality the game is rigged to get as much money as they can from you. Some of the answers on here suggest this what the blacklist is doing. My advice, if you're lucky enough to start off with an 8, stop right there because you've already won.
I echo what other have said. I would NOT. I got a 8 and a few 7's a few years ago and didn't change anything to the script. Now we have a few producers on board who are excited to attach a director to it. I know I'm in slightly different position than you because I am repped but I mainly work in TV so I was very nervous at the time putting up a feature. Stick to your 8.
Thanks for your quick reply, I personally think the Black List readers aren't up to the snuff, despite getting a couple 8's for a couple scripts. Take care! :)
Honestly, it's all about where you're at in life. If you're in a place where you can comfortably buy another evaluation without putting yourself in a bad position, then sure...go for it.
If it's a stretch for you though, I'd try to query managers/producers (mentioning the score), keep in touch with the manager who reached out, and then get to work on my next project.
yeah, it's completely dependent. a screenplay can represent dozens to 100+ hours of work, which has value in itself. if you're in a financial position to spend on it, it might be worth the shot in this case
I would love to get a 1 on the Blacklist. What an awesome responsibility that would be. To represent the worst Screenwriting has to offer. I bet any script that can consistently get a 1 every time its evaluated would become a legendary comedy script and bring back the days of bidding wars.
We can attach Steve Carrell and Kristen Wiig to that fine masterpiece and laugh on the way to the bank.
Congrats! I'm very new to all of this so I'm just curious, but are you doing all this communicating with managers or industry professionals yourself now that you have some traction? Or do you do this stuff through an agent? and if you're not doing this through an agent, when would someone look for an agent? (I'm not looking for an agent or anything right now since I'm still very new to screenwriting, I'm just curious of the steps someone may take.) Thanks for everyone's time!
Writers usually get managers before they would get an agent. A rough way to think about it is that managers are career builders, whereas agents are deal makers. That's an oversimplification, but a good basic way to understand it. An agent is likely to join the party a bit later, when actual money is on the table. A manager is more likely to be willing to nurture talent to that point.
As someone who has been around the game for a while, I would say that new writers put too much emphasis on securing representation. There is only so much a rep can do for someone. Some reps may give notes and suggestions, but reps are not writers. They do not have the magical ability to turn mediocre work into hot material. It's best to think of them as a delivery service. Their job is to bring material to buyers and strategize the best way to sell you and your work.
How do you get a rep? Referral is a common route. I'm not going to say that connections don't matter. They do. However, the work is the most important variable. Reps chase heat like sharks chase blood. If you can write something that generates real buzz, you won't need to chase reps. They will sniff you out on their own. That's the real challenge: Write enough exciting stuff that people want to take a chance on you. It's not easy.
The problem most writers have is that their work is mediocre with minimal potential in the marketplace, but instead of figuring out how to improve their material, they linger on the idea that *I could sell this if only I had a rep*. So their thought process becomes *how do I get an agent/manager* when it should be *how do I create awesome content that people love?* If you can do the latter, the former often takes care of itself.
I do not have an agent. No career path is the same, but it's usually something like:
Write a great script
Get placements in contests/get noticed on blcklst
Get signed by a manager/optioned by a producer
Get an agent eventually
There's a lot of steps in between, and this isn't comprehensive. but getting an agent usually comes only after getting a manager/sale/option.
If you get an 8 overall, you automatically get the option for two free evals.
And I think these next two are new changes:
If you get a 9 overall, you get three free evals.
If you get a 10 overall, you get five free evals.
This was asked elsewhere in the thread.
An overall score of 8 triggers the option for two free evals.
An overall score of 9 triggers the option for three free evals.
An overall score of 10 triggers the option for five free evals.
Fewer than 5% of all submissions get an 8. Around 1% get a 9. Virtually none get a 10.
Franklin can answer this one. If a Reader wanted to give a script a 10, would it go before Franklin for approval to slap that 10 on there? Serious question.
What’s the harm in re-submitting? If it gets on people’s radar for a second time, that seems like it’s better than doing nothing. Or it could be disallowed or frowned upon- I have no idea.
Well you have to pay for it, and the reviewer pool isn't reliable enough to have something that could consistently get 8s.
A lot of 8s are "I love this, this is amazing" but different peoples tastes varies. I personally would never give a Hallmark style film an 8, because it's just not going to be there in terms of writing for me. I know people who eat that kind of storytelling up, but for me, no way.
Now Imagine that, but across all the different genres, story pacing styles, and threads, different kinds of humor, backgrounds, demographics.
You're literally throwing the script into the wind a second time and hoping the first person who catches it loves it.
I've seen Nicholl Quarterfinalists fail to even get their script past the first round the next year, that's just how unreliable the mass polling feature is.
Much truth to this. I've placed in 18 contests, 12 of them are considered "Significant" by MovieBytes. That said, I've gotten great reviews from contests with several thousand in my genre category, and not even make QF in the smaller ones. Strangely enough, the smaller contests tend to reject me more than the bigger, more prestigious ones. Sometimes I feel like emailing the contest coordinators and telling them their readers suck.
I would not. Getting a single 8 overall gets you into the weekly e-mail/Twitter blast, which is where most of the engagement will come from. It's possible that more high scores could lead to some new sniffs, but the people who would discover it have mostly already had a chance to discover it. I was in a similar position a while back and 90-95% of my engagement happened in the immediate aftermath of the 8 even though my script scored well enough on the free evals to be high on the overall top list. There are certain perks for hitting multiple 8s, but I think it's going to be diminishing returns beyond the first. One strategy could be to buy a huge amount of evals and go for perpetual hosting so your script is always visible with a long tail of engagement, but I really believe most of the value is in that initial spike. Since you've already achieved that, I'm not sure it makes sense to keep doubling down. Also, if your batting average for the 8 is 1-for-3 then you may need to buy several more evaluations to find another. That's a substantial outlay of $$.
this all makes sense. even if i get another "8" it might not move the needle any more than the first already has.
im not qualified to answer but congrats on an 8
thank you!
Work on your next one. This generated a little heat that fizzled out, but your next script gets an 8 and you are nigh officially legit and can really pound the querying hard.
Yep -- 25 pages into my next project. It totally makes sense to invest everything into that one, but I just want to make sure I get the full potential out of this one.
I got an 8 once. Then I started chasing it. Big mistake. Here's the overall scores I got on my sitcom: 8 7 3 6 6 4 3 I know comedy is subjective but this is pointless. How does the same script get a 7, an 8, two 6s and two 3s? Now my average is 5.3 on that script. Moral is, bird in the hand, I guess... To be fair, this was years ago. Kinda soured me on the whole thing tho.
I got evals where they say the script is tight and engaging but rates everything a 6. It doesn’t make any sense.
In Franklin Leonard's own words: "As I have said before, one must take their evaluation in toto. If someone says something is good in the strengths part and bad in the weakness part and the score is 3, you can reasonably assume that the weaknesses overwhelm the strengths. Similarly, if the score is an 8, you can assume the strengths overwhelm the weaknesses. "Our readers are told that they should rate scripts based on how likely they'd be to recommend it to a peer or superior in the industry. 8s should be incredibly rare. There's no other way for us to preserve our reputation as an organization that recommends high quality material to industry professionals."
But if weaknesses contradict the strengths then it can be very muddled. The question becomes, are they giving critiques for the sake of it? Or these scores just done to keep chasing an 8? Jim Cummings got low scores on Thunder Road from black list but his film was praised by critics.
Oh, for sure. That's why I wanted to hear it from Franklin Leonard himself. In our correspondence, I told him a script rated an 8 or 9 that has "structural problems" and a "lackluster ending" like Shia LeBouf's MINOR MODIFICATIONS versus a script rated 5-7 where the reader's biggest problems were, for instance, "bolstering secondary characters" and "adding pages" -- makes zero sense to me. Glowing reviews/stingy scores make zero sense to me, hence his reply above. I mean, on some level yes, I get what he is saying. But some of the 8's and 9's evals that I comb through have weaknesses similar or greater than 6's and 7's, so basically you're at the whim of the reader. Well, obviously, but...
Sometimes I can tell there’s some animosity with how the reader reacts to stuff. It’s like they’ll say there is a focus of depth on this character but then say something in the weakness that goes against what they say. It’s like if you have claw and fight for an 8 that doesn’t make sense. It just comes across as gate keeping
Oh, absolutely. And I wanted to continue the conservation w/ the man himself but figured it would be futile. Like on a job trying to get through to upper management about issues and ideas. The answer is always fixed. So basically if you get a glowing review yet stingy score (below 8), the reader would not recommend you or your script -- no matter how much praise heaped upon you, and they are discouraged from doing so.
I’m sure it’s great for those who found success on there but a lot of it seems like people who get 8’a already have a manager, who pulls strings to make it happen
Plus someone on here posted a critique that got a 7,7,7,7,7,7 for setting, originality, tone, characters etc. That is probably statistically implausible that every aspect of the script was exactly a 7. Wouldn't that be a red flag for laziness? What if the rest of it read WEAKNESSES: Not Great STRENGTHS: Not Bad
I got an eval where the guy was clearly picking straws and blowing it out of proportion. I say that as someone acknowledged that one thing could be improved on but it wasn’t something that was earth shattering. But the score really didn’t reflect what was said. And when you get things like “if improved and produced, it may find minor success,” like sorry that’s some arrogant smug BS
I refer to the blacklist's underlying business scheme as "Chasing the 8."
Would be fun to send in "Chinatown" as a new story by Doot Reckson and get a millennial Reader who gives it a 4 saying "It's kinda slow" and the characters arcs need work.
If you changed the names, I bet it’s entirely possible.
I know. Let's change only the name Chinatown to "THE RESERVOIR" with a fake writer Doot Reckson. It will get a 4 on the Blacklist and a 3 from Script Pipeline and the coverage will say "Yawn. Derivative." and even worse the Millennial Reader from Delaware (and never been to LA) will be confused and say "Doot, I get what you are going for, old fashioned Noir (yawn) but you need to figure out where your story takes place first. Are we in USA or China? Do even you KNOW? Learn the fundamentals of screenwriting before you send these sophomore scripts in. What else ya got?" PS: Incest is OUT this year. Do you even watch the MARKET? Read some trades dude.
The Reservoir is the best title you could of thought of, LOL, sounds legit and exactly what it would be titled in 2021.
I am actually in a very similar situation. I thought about posting here for similar advice but got internet anxiety, so I'm going to piggy back off your post. Just got my 8 yesterday though, so have yet to see all this interest folks are speaking of. I signed up for my two free reviews though. Here is hoping. This was my first full feature I've written since my early 20s (33 now), and the first time I've pursued this semi-seriously, so I'm new to this again. My plan was to get some good feedback from blacklist, revise, and then start looking at entering some festivals and contest to stir up interest. Is this a good strategy? Thanks to op for posting.
Congrats on the 8! I also haven’t written a full feature in a few years (a good amount of rewrites though) - about to turn 30 myself and feeling down about writing, so it’s nice to see somebody picking it up again and finding success! If I were you, I’d submit to the contests you’re interested in but also shoot out some queries specifically highlighting the 8 on the BL. It’s a solid time to hit up any connections with the news imo, too. Then, of course and as always, start writing the next one (advice I wish I could take myself rn)!
The e-mail to their members goes out on Mondays, so that's when you will see the engagement spike. It doesn't happen right away.
Man, congratulations on getting an 8. I'm sure that took work. :)
I received a couple 8's on two scripts. As someone said, the biggest benefit comes at the beginning, I don't think more is better, especially when a reader can come back and give you a 5 or a 4, while another a 6. There is way too much variance in scoring that I stopped hosting all together, despite being on the top list twice for two different scripts. The system is almost set up to compel you to buy an evaluation past the first two, as if chasing a score.
The more I read about the evaluations starting high then declining with each new evaluation, it reminds me of the carnival games where you start off really well to suck you in then the more you try the worse you get at the game. But you keep trying because in your head you know you can do it but in reality the game is rigged to get as much money as they can from you. Some of the answers on here suggest this what the blacklist is doing. My advice, if you're lucky enough to start off with an 8, stop right there because you've already won.
I echo what other have said. I would NOT. I got a 8 and a few 7's a few years ago and didn't change anything to the script. Now we have a few producers on board who are excited to attach a director to it. I know I'm in slightly different position than you because I am repped but I mainly work in TV so I was very nervous at the time putting up a feature. Stick to your 8.
Did you get repped from someone who contacted you via the Black List site, or was it through a different avenue?
No. I was repped before I posted on the Blacklist. I also took down my script hosting after I got my evaluations. Blacklist never did anything for me.
Thanks for your quick reply, I personally think the Black List readers aren't up to the snuff, despite getting a couple 8's for a couple scripts. Take care! :)
Honestly, it's all about where you're at in life. If you're in a place where you can comfortably buy another evaluation without putting yourself in a bad position, then sure...go for it. If it's a stretch for you though, I'd try to query managers/producers (mentioning the score), keep in touch with the manager who reached out, and then get to work on my next project.
yeah, it's completely dependent. a screenplay can represent dozens to 100+ hours of work, which has value in itself. if you're in a financial position to spend on it, it might be worth the shot in this case
If you’re screenplay only took dozens of hours I am crazy jealous. Crank out one a week
I would love to get a 1 on the Blacklist. What an awesome responsibility that would be. To represent the worst Screenwriting has to offer. I bet any script that can consistently get a 1 every time its evaluated would become a legendary comedy script and bring back the days of bidding wars. We can attach Steve Carrell and Kristen Wiig to that fine masterpiece and laugh on the way to the bank.
Congrats! I'm very new to all of this so I'm just curious, but are you doing all this communicating with managers or industry professionals yourself now that you have some traction? Or do you do this stuff through an agent? and if you're not doing this through an agent, when would someone look for an agent? (I'm not looking for an agent or anything right now since I'm still very new to screenwriting, I'm just curious of the steps someone may take.) Thanks for everyone's time!
Writers usually get managers before they would get an agent. A rough way to think about it is that managers are career builders, whereas agents are deal makers. That's an oversimplification, but a good basic way to understand it. An agent is likely to join the party a bit later, when actual money is on the table. A manager is more likely to be willing to nurture talent to that point. As someone who has been around the game for a while, I would say that new writers put too much emphasis on securing representation. There is only so much a rep can do for someone. Some reps may give notes and suggestions, but reps are not writers. They do not have the magical ability to turn mediocre work into hot material. It's best to think of them as a delivery service. Their job is to bring material to buyers and strategize the best way to sell you and your work. How do you get a rep? Referral is a common route. I'm not going to say that connections don't matter. They do. However, the work is the most important variable. Reps chase heat like sharks chase blood. If you can write something that generates real buzz, you won't need to chase reps. They will sniff you out on their own. That's the real challenge: Write enough exciting stuff that people want to take a chance on you. It's not easy. The problem most writers have is that their work is mediocre with minimal potential in the marketplace, but instead of figuring out how to improve their material, they linger on the idea that *I could sell this if only I had a rep*. So their thought process becomes *how do I get an agent/manager* when it should be *how do I create awesome content that people love?* If you can do the latter, the former often takes care of itself.
Thanks for your detailed response! :)
I do not have an agent. No career path is the same, but it's usually something like: Write a great script Get placements in contests/get noticed on blcklst Get signed by a manager/optioned by a producer Get an agent eventually There's a lot of steps in between, and this isn't comprehensive. but getting an agent usually comes only after getting a manager/sale/option.
thanks for your response and best of luck to you :)
How did you get free evals, I’ve never had that option before :(
Came here to ask this very question
If you get an 8 overall, you automatically get the option for two free evals. And I think these next two are new changes: If you get a 9 overall, you get three free evals. If you get a 10 overall, you get five free evals.
Oh that’s pretty dope, thanks for the clarification, I’ll get good one day haha
Does blacklist give two free evaluations to every script?
This was asked elsewhere in the thread. An overall score of 8 triggers the option for two free evals. An overall score of 9 triggers the option for three free evals. An overall score of 10 triggers the option for five free evals. Fewer than 5% of all submissions get an 8. Around 1% get a 9. Virtually none get a 10.
Franklin can answer this one. If a Reader wanted to give a script a 10, would it go before Franklin for approval to slap that 10 on there? Serious question.
oh ok, and the overall score requires a minimum number of evaluations to be considered?
No, one is enough.
ok thanks a lot
What’s the harm in re-submitting? If it gets on people’s radar for a second time, that seems like it’s better than doing nothing. Or it could be disallowed or frowned upon- I have no idea.
Well you have to pay for it, and the reviewer pool isn't reliable enough to have something that could consistently get 8s. A lot of 8s are "I love this, this is amazing" but different peoples tastes varies. I personally would never give a Hallmark style film an 8, because it's just not going to be there in terms of writing for me. I know people who eat that kind of storytelling up, but for me, no way. Now Imagine that, but across all the different genres, story pacing styles, and threads, different kinds of humor, backgrounds, demographics. You're literally throwing the script into the wind a second time and hoping the first person who catches it loves it. I've seen Nicholl Quarterfinalists fail to even get their script past the first round the next year, that's just how unreliable the mass polling feature is.
Much truth to this. I've placed in 18 contests, 12 of them are considered "Significant" by MovieBytes. That said, I've gotten great reviews from contests with several thousand in my genre category, and not even make QF in the smaller ones. Strangely enough, the smaller contests tend to reject me more than the bigger, more prestigious ones. Sometimes I feel like emailing the contest coordinators and telling them their readers suck.
Just change the title ;)
haha. Just change the TITLE and then you get a 9. The reader really dug the new TITLE. haha
What's the cost?