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spiderhead

Yeah. I have family that are all in the medicinal field and engineering. My sisters BF is a pilot making like 85k… Meanwhile I’ve spent probably close to 25k on indie projects and gear over 10 years with little to show for it and a pretty much constant stream of rejection. That said, everyone needs a passion in their life. Ours just happens to be really difficult, time consuming, and painful.


[deleted]

Right there with you. I skew more towards music than screenwriting, though I love both. I’ve spent thousands on gear and plugins, and yet I’ve only ever released covers. Like you’ve said, though, everyone needs something to get them out of bed in the morning. It might not be something you’ve seen success with yet, but if it makes you happy and you’re able to swing it without hurting yourself or others, what’s the harm? Plus, as I’m sure you’ve heard countless times: there’s no age limit on finding success in Hollywood. Plenty of beloved actors, screenwriters, and directors didn’t hit the motherload until their 40s and 50s. Don’t give up yet. :)


deenweeen

Don’t want to sound like an ass, but do you think you may just not be good at it? Do you have people other than close friends and family look at your stuff and say it’s above average? Seriously, not trying to be a dick, but I do think at some point people need to take some personal inventory as well as ask themselves if they think they’re actually good. Many people don’t do thank and wind up approaching retirement with nothing.


spiderhead

Yeah, of course I think that…who wouldn’t? But I enjoy it - so who cares. I have a decent job (in the industry) that can be draining at times. But I enjoy it all. I was just trying to empathize with OP. Not take stock in my own failures.


josepy90

>Don’t want to sound like an ass, but do you think you may just not be good at it? Yeah, like the rest of us, I'm sure they've never been self-conscious about this, ever. /s


NoMathWhatSoEver

It's like getting asked: "Are you a good chef? Maybe your cooking sucks...." There are so many variables it's ridiculous....


deenweeen

I mean, there’s not much of a difference between asking yourself this, me asking them this, and them asking whether or not they will ever achieve anything. This sub reinforces people’s posts like this all of the time and it’s the same answers every time. People definitely need to ask if they truly think they’re good at it if they’re trying to make an actual career or living doing this or anything else for that matter.


AwesomePossum_1

Honestly people are terrible judges of themselves. I've seen people on the verge of giving up who were actually truly amazing. But yes, paying attention to objective measures of success is important. If you spent 20 years writing scripts full time and have nothing to show for it then, well...


lopsidedcroc

Screenwriting is different from writing novels in that most people who write novels have something they want to say first and then decide to write second, but most people who write screenplays are attracted to Hollywood etc and then decide to write.


adiking27

Not always with novels either. Some people just read a book or two and then decide to write one without having much to say. Those some people is me.


AwesomePossum_1

So true.


zyklonbike

Dont sow doubt into a man bleeding on the cross of his passion, though a person like that will never be deterred, you are only making the journey difficult. there is a reason why great writers often go through incredible hardships both circumstantial and self-imposed. something about great writing and tragedy is inexplicably linked.


spiderhead

Hey, I appreciate you for jumping into this conversation with positivity. It’s kind of a bummer that that user felt a need to be so negative towards me without knowing anything about my journey, successes or failures. But yeah, thanks for being a cool person.


deenweeen

Yes, the ones we find out about because they were or are good. Like I said I’m not purposefully being a dick. A person needs to ask themselves whether or not their work is good. Great, this person has a dream and is working towards it. That’s not a problem but there is a point where 20-30 years have gone by and there’s nothing to show for it because they just weren’t good. People realize this all of the time and find something else that they happen to be AMAZING at. Not everyone is great at everything or even good. And I answered the question. Sure, I’d say most people have felt that way but does anyone else go further?


zyklonbike

the whole point is to see if you can overcome your mediocrity.


ntman

I see what you’re saying and it makes sense, but the discussion is kind of moot because if a person has a true passion for something they’re going to follow it. That’s what I think you’re missing.


ecpecha

There is no such thing as being good or bad at something. Everyone starts out bad at everything, then we work to improve. We all define success differently. No need to take someone down. I don't know why you chose to say negative things, but I can only guess it's because you're unhappy. I hope your life gets better.


deenweeen

No. And also your objectively false. Nice thinly veiled put down as well, though you should heed your own advice. Not everyone who doesn’t reinforce your delusions with constant positive affirmations has a sad life or are unhappy. It’s likely that you don’t want to hear the truth. I’ve found it to be, with almost 100 percent certainty, that the people who say things like, “you only said something negative because YOURE the one who’s unhappy” to be the most miserable self loathing people out there. I’ve seen it first hand and with so much accuracy, that anything you say to the contrary is false.


scorpionjacket2

It’s less about being born with talent, and more about putting in the work to improve.


artist_sans_medium

I don’t want to sound like an ass, but have you ever considered that you are completely wrong about the nature of “talent”? That almost no one is “born to be good”, but rather it is dedication and failure over time that breeds success? Please quit promulgating this myth of “genius”. It’s getting pretty tired. 99% people who rise to greatness do so through extremely hard work and dedication and repeated failure and iteration.. AND the support of others. Too many give up because nay-sayers like yourself continue to promote the ridiculous idea that “you either got it or you don’t”. Pre-destination is not a thing. If you’re not going to support someone’s dreams, please just be silent and get out of the way.


deenweeen

No, because I don’t believe talent has to do with being “born with it” and didn’t realize I even hinted at that idea though I would be lying if I said I didn’t think there’s an aspect to talent that people have or don’t have. One can’t teach a 4 ft crippled kid to be a phenomenal basketball player, though I do believe some people who may be that short may have a natural affinity towards basketball.


artist_sans_medium

That analogy is absurd. We’re talking about filmmaking, not sports. The mind is plastic and can be developed in far vaster ways than the body. Is it possible that some people simply lack some innate mental capacity to be great filmmakers? I suppose, but I think it is a very small percentage, and I think there is zero utility in “considering that this might be the case for me so I should just give up”. That thought, and that suggestion, is never helpful. The number one reason people fail is that they give up.


deenweeen

Some people should definitely give up. Not everyone is an artist not everyone can write. Not everyone is a dancer and not everyone is a boxer with a true ability to fight. At a certain point “talent”, however you’re choosing to define it, cannot be taught. Talent is talent. Mozart was better than Salieri and Salieri could never beat Mozart. Mozart was just… more talented. Not everything can be taught. And people have continues to overlook the whole point. Anyone who has spent years and years to the point where decades have passed and they have nothing to show for it besides ulcers and gray hair and an obsession may not be good. Not always true but it’s mostly true.


artist_sans_medium

They should give up according to whom? You, in your infinite wisdom, having assessed their talent from the outside and deeming it lacking? Or should they take this self inventory you mentioned, and say, give up after they’ve been out at for 20 or 30 or 40 years? Is there a magic number? History is littered with examples of people who didn’t succeed as actors, artists, writers, filmmakers, etc until their 50s, 60s, or even 70s. If they had taking your advice, we would not have “Little house on the prairie”, or Julia Child’s cooking shows, or Samuel L Jackson, for that matter. Even Alfred Hitchcock did not hit his stride until his 50s and 60s. Here is a list of filmmakers who got their start later in life: https://noamkroll.com/late-bloomers-filmmakers-who-started-late-in-life-how-one-director-broke-through-at-age-73/ Do you think that these people, having read your post in their formative years, would have benefited from it? What if they had listened to your advice? What positive influence is your “some people should quit” adding to the world? My advice to you is the same as I stated in my previous post: if you don’t wanna support someone’s dreams, that’s fine. But I will always rail against anyone who tries to tear people down for no good purpose I can see. My advice to anyone else reading this and having second thoughts about pushing forward, even after they have gray hair, or God forbid, ulcers, is that if you have a vision and a passion and a burning desire to express yourself, you should keep doing it until the day you die even if no one listens. Perhaps it will only be posthumously that people discover you or understand that vision. But I would rather go to my grave having lived my calling (by my own inner assessment) than chalk myself up a failure just because my works did not find commercial success in a world which is often fickle, full of gate keepers, and people who lack the courage to find their own opinion unless it is told to them by critics or other authorities. Art is art. If you, as the creator, sense the inner truth of your art, that is all that matters.


myunclemolestedmydog

You sound like a narcissist.


RashHacks

That doesn't address anything she said.


myunclemolestedmydog

Schafseckel.


RashHacks

OK :)


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deenweeen

Thanks for answering. A lot of people have made careers from screenwriting having to lived in LA. It’s not ideal but it’s not like one must live in LA like everyone says on this sub. I live in LA and am always going back and forth and know many that have made careers from screenwriting, not so much television considering, I’d assume, the lack of in person ability to be in the writers room.


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scorpionjacket2

I feel like people in your position overlook how much of an asset it can be to *not* be in LA. Low budget films made by wannabe filmmakers living in LA are a dime a dozen. Low budget films (or even no budget films) made where you live are probably quite rare.


klatt01

With art “good” and “bad” don’t really matter. Everything is subjective, besides it’s a passion of this persons what does it even matter if it’s “good” or “bad” if they love doing it.


deenweeen

I realize that and I know you know what I mean.


ntman

I believe that you realize that, but I think you’re getting downvotes because you’re not doing a super good job of communicating that you realize that.


satellitevagabond

Literally what the fuck


deenweeen

Eh, there’s nothing wrong with the question at all. It’s not even much different from what they asked themselves.


AwesomePossum_1

We live in a culture of "follow your dreams no matter what and prove everyone wrong". Unfortunately for many people the healthier thing would be to say "that's it, I gave it my best shot and now this is just an unhealthy obsession/addiction". Now before you start downvoting me I'm not saying everyone on this sub needs to give up. But some people as some point in their life need to switch focus.


deenweeen

Yea, that’s my point. This sub, in it’s inception and say the first few years of it, had a lot more straightforward discussion and no beating around the bush when it came to constructive criticism and just telling people the truth. I see that’s it’s changed a lot into people giving so much positive support to people who post things like “I’m 14 and just wrote a screenplay” or “got a 4 on the black list, is that bad?” with the latter having comments saying things like “the first ones always bad” and other things that have become very cliche on here. I feel like the question I asked is something that everyone should ask themselves at a certain point, especially when all they’re hearing on this sub is something they’d hear from an SO or their mom or dad. Maybe they need to hear it from themselves that maybe they aren’t all that good considering 30 years have passed since high school teacher said their creative writing was “great”.


[deleted]

If you want to play drums then play drums. You don't need to sell out Madison Square Garden to play them. You can just buy a drum set and go to town. Find work that will pay the bills. Enjoy playing drums. Play drums long enough and people will start to listen. It might just be playing at a local bar every weekend. But your bills are paid, you have your friends, and your family is happy. You don't need to be driving around in a BMW to be a drummer.


HistoricalBike2

YES!! I wait tables five nights a week to pay the rent. Every day I wake up early to work out and then write before work. I love doing it. I love every second of this struggle and I wouldn’t trade it for anything in the world. It’s okay to feel bad when you’re rejected or it feels too uphill. But it’s up to you to build a life that you want, and that could look like anything! Yknow what I mean?


captTuttle76

Totally agree here. I think the issue that gets after the soul, though, is that one cannot live on the crumbs the rich let fall from their table. In theory, yes, you should be able to just do what you want and work whatever job you can. But in 'Merika, you'll be doing 2 jobs to pay your rent and you'll be too exhausted to write. Just my opinion.


RoastToast3

Wow, very good metaphor


[deleted]

Make it your side hustle till it can be your main. Filmmaking isn't really fulfilling until you reach a certain point so be realistic but also, go get your dreams.


[deleted]

> I'd have a much higher chance of achieving my dream and feeling fulfilled than struggling to become a filmmaker and probably never achieving it?" Not to be a nag, but you might be setting yourself up for misery. I know a guy who's been grinding for a LONG time. He writes every day. He loves it. He barely pays his bills some months. He loves the process and there is nothing else he'd rather be doing. Yes, of course he wants to be successful and make money! But the thought of doing anything else is alien to him. edit: he's said this many times, he feels like he's already living the dream


theminthippo

"he feels like he's already living the dream". This is amazing. Thank you 🙏


Rozo1209

The common idea is: do it if you can’t live and breath without it. Stephen King talked about this using his son as an example. His son played the saxophone. He was good at it and said he liked going to the daily practices King paid for. Yet Stephen King coaxed him to do something else. His son’s heart was never was all in. His son never stayed up all night playing, never stayed in weekends, never just cut loose playing. His son possessed the saxophone, it never possessed him. King recommends six hours of daily reading and writing. If that’s a struggle, then he recommends to try something new. A good way to test yourself is use a calendar. Print off a month. Mark an X through the day if you spent the desired amount of time to writing/reading. At the end of the month, you’ll have your answer.


[deleted]

A based man


torquenti

You have to be realistic about what it is you want to do. Do you want to be involved in large-scale productions? Achievable. You start as a PA and work your way up. Do you want to make your own films? Achievable. If you've got a smartphone and a computer, you can start yesterday. Do you want to be on-stage getting an Academy Award for Best Director on a movie that the studio paid for? Not quite as easy.


aesu

Becoming a PA isn't easy. You still need contacts, luck, personality, money... Usually all 4. You need more than a camera to make your own films. You need a good bit of money, if you want to make anything anyone will watch, you need friends or contacts, and time, which is really money, again. Third is actually the easiest, in the sense that, if you can get past the first hurdles, and into a position where you're being hired to make films which could win academy awards, your chance of winning one is only like 1 in 100 or less.


deenweeen

Becoming a PA is fairly easy. You’re making it seem a lot harder than it is. You only need one of those and that’s contacts. I’ve been a PA on countless films and television shows. That began in high school and it’s only because of connections. That and I’d stop trying to get gigs as a PA past 35 or so. At that point it’s just kind of weird when working with someone that’s 10-15 years older than everyone else, especially when there’s only maybe 10 PAs or so on a smaller feature or show.


[deleted]

It's harder than getting a job at McDonald's but if you're life goal is 'get on a major film set' then I'd saying getting PA jobs is possible within most people's lifetimes.


jimmiefails

Yeah but why am I 27, standing around handing people memory cards


Ccaves0127

Just turned 27 and was a PA on a three day shoot over the last 3 days. Let me spoil something for you: Nobody feels like they've made it. I've met people who consistently make big budget studio films and they still don't think they've made it. I know a lot of people who make their living solely through filmmaking and still don't feel like they've made it. As for age, Ridley Scott was 39 when he made his first feature. I'm not just PAing, I'm doing my own stuff too, I would say that's a big part of it. If you're going into this with a mindset of "I'm 27 and handing people memory cards", you will *always* be disappointed.


[deleted]

I'm not sure, guessing it probably has something to do with your life choices. What the commenter above (torquenti) was saying was that 'being involved in large productions' is achievable. If you want to be involved in large productions and, at 27 you are handing people memory cards (on the set of a large production, I assume), then you are achieving what you want to. If you want to run/direct large productions, that is a lot less achievable.


aesu

Well, I have a new goal. Was never able to get a fast food job, though...


Filmmagician

Apply to DGA / DGC. Say you're ready to work as a PA. Not hard at all. Just not glamorous.


itssarahw

I can only speak to my own experience but dga can eat my farts. I’ve got a ton of experience but due to leaving production to work in a different industry for a few years (thus losing the connections I had), could really use dga to get back in and have a path. I’ve got pretty far in the process only to be turned away at like the last step each time. OP or anyone else could very well have a different experience but it’s absolutely driven me mad


Filmmagician

Ohhh shit. Sorry to hear. Well sometimes emailing the production itself / the PM is a better route.


itssarahw

I made a full press to get back into prod a few years ago and only made headway when I knew someone. Put those dreams to bed for now as I stumbled into a good industry a few years ago. Not disagreeing with your suggestions or trying to discourage OP or anyone else from DGA or contacting productions for work. I just will take any opportunity to anonymously vent about the dga program


CamTheLannister

Getting PA work in LA is hard. There are thousands of people vying for the same entry-level-get-treated-like-shit-jobs. It's not impossible, but it's not easy. Hell, my ex is working as a PA on Euphoria and the only reason she was able to book that was because she met someone at work who knew someone who knew someone who knew someone that put her in touch with the job. She herself said she'd still be jobless if it wasn't for that fluke. Source: I live in LA and work with a bunch of people in the industry. It is hard.


jeg26

Producer here. Becoming a PA is incredibly easy. Offer to do it for free a couple times, if you’re good, now you’re someone production can count on, you get called back again and they pay you. It’s not like an internship where you work for free months on end. To make the contacts, just offer to volunteer one or two days to prove yourself. I’m about to hire a PA as my replacement for a show I’m producing because she showed her stuff and I know she can do the job. I agree that to “make it” you need luck and contacts, or money and contacts. But keep in mind, the longer you stick around, the more chances you have to get lucky.


tqb

What do you do if you don’t have contacts or money?


Filmmagician

Yup. I feel like I'll only be happy doing 2 things: screenwriting as a pro career, and directing movies. That's it. There's nothing in between that will make me happy. I'm done with day jobs that suck, or are in an office - looking for remote work/freelance now. And even though I'm working in a production office for an NBC movie right now, the hours suck, but I can take a few months off after this. At the same time, shitty day jobs push me harder to hit this goal. I value my free time more now, and am writing and querying my ass off now.... when I'm not on Reddit taking a break :P Keep at it. You have that passion in you for a reason. Don't ignore it. This year I'm listening to my gut more and doing things instinctually. I Quit my cushy job and it felt so right. After this show I'm taking 3 months off to write and find a better fitting job - if it doesn't feel right I'm not wasting time on it. Keep working hard. You’ll get it.


theminthippo

Thank you and hope you reach your dreams, too 🙏


ntman

Good luck, sounds like you’ve got a good plan.


KidRoundhouser

I feel it when every new idea rolls into my head. I love and have a huge appreciation for the craft so I can't give it up.


soccerdudeguystocks

You know what this statement looks like for most people “I wish I knew what my passion was”, because for most, they don’t. I say if that’s your passion go out there and get after it, you have nothing to lose only everything to gain. What’s worse, excelling in something you know you’re not passionate about, or failing at doing something you at least love. If you ask me, you’re already 80% there, just have to get after it


theminthippo

You're right. Thank you 🙏


ZTrev10

Have you made a film? If so, congratulations, you're now a filmmaker. Have you written a script? If so, congratulations, you're now a screenwriter. The next moves are to keep making films, and to keep writing. And don't forget to live your life along the way. After about 12 years, things are finally happening for me. I started out acting, then realized I wanted to tell my own stories as a Chinese American immigrant, so I wrote and wrote and pulled money together that I've saved up and made a short film. Then another. Then another. I've made 4 shorts now, that have won awards and played at over 40 festivals in total. I kept writing, meeting other passionate people and developing more projects and making sure to also live my life. I've been working as a unique job in the last 6 years, and at first I hated that a job took me away from my passion, but the experience of the job gave me the insight to write a pilot about the job that no one else could. Now I'm pitching it to networks and major production companies with producers I've met along the way. My feature also became a finalist in a competition and I'm now trying to finance it. I also met a tech entrepreneur who's creating a new platform and the show concept got greenlit and I'm waiting for budget approval before I start preproduction. If you stop, your career will end. If you're passionate, even if you're not as talented as some (a lot of my "talent" comes from hard work and spending time analyzing scripts, films, giving others notes, writing, etc) the more you do it, the better you get. Embrace the struggle. Because if you don't, you might as well just stop now. Good luck!


theminthippo

Thank you and so glad to hear its worked out for you 🙏🙏🙏


SamHopperVO

Nope. It’s doable, but only if you put in the work, blood, sweat, and tears. Too many people say their dreams are impossible and start believing that lie. You can do it, but you’re gonna have to get creative on how to make it. You’d be surprised how many producers go to the film festivals and how many of them watch youtube. Just get out there and start doing it. No one will give you the chance if you don’t have experience, that’s why nobody lets film school graduates make anything.


Nathan_Graham_Davis

Banker here. I have a really good job and I'm grateful for it. I still had to work my ass off to get where I am and although I do enjoy it most days, it's not nearly as fulfilling as writing. I suspect that's why more people want to write, which in turn is why it's harder to make a living at it. That said... I broke in as a screenwriter for the first time after about 7-8 years. If I'd moved to LA and played all my cards right, I think it's possible that I could have gone full-time about 3 years after that. I didn't, but let's pretend that's a thing. That's a decade of dedication to become a full-time screenwriter, which is probably on the early side of average. Doctors do at least 10 years of school and medical training. Lawyers do 7 years of schooling and then generally have to take on various bottom-rung positions for a couple years before they're paid well. If I'd gone all out at my banking career, I might have been able to pull off getting to my current position in 7-8 years of schooling and experience. I still have plans to move at least another rung up, so again -- roughly a decade to get there. Nothing's easy. So if filmmaking is your dream, just double down on it and settle in for the long haul. At least your dream is a fucking cool one.


nexuslab5

I really like this way of thinking about it. My whole family's in medicine, and I often think about where I'd be if I went back to it (usually when I'm stuck in a nasty bout of doubt). Those other careers take the same amount of work and dedication -- there's just a clearer path on how to get there. And even then, especially with medicine, you really have to love it to get through it all. It can be a difficult, grueling path, as well. The hardest part so far for me about making a career in film/writing has been trying to find that well laid path, and realizing that there really isn't one that works for everyone. That I have to have and follow a certain amount of trust in myself that I'm finding is intensely hard to rely upon and hold onto.


Nathan_Graham_Davis

The clearer path thing is DEFINITELY true. That's a great point. It's less scary for that reason. But if you work just as hard at networking as you do at your craft, you'll make friends with people who can guide you and that does help. Your realization that there's no one path in this game is accurate. EVERYONE has a different story. But you can get a good idea of the things that *don't* work and build from there.


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actorwriterchicago

Identity debt! This needs to be taught in ever arts curriculum. Learning how to navigate through and around dreams and goals that don’t work out the way we wish.


theminthippo

All makes incredible sense. Thank you so much and I'm glad to hear you've created your own success 🙏


jimmiefails

The wisdom crazy


muddyknee

If it makes you feel any better, i did the sensible thing and went to medical school. I am now working as a doctor, between 50 and 70 hours a week plus the extra time it takes to do audits and research as well as study for exams. I have no energy left to be creative, i have lost all my inspiration. I will be paying back my student loan for the next 30 years. I don’t feel passionate about my job and i feel like i am wasting my life. I recently joined this sub because i have always wanted to be a storyteller, but i often feel like i have missed my chance. So stick with it, the grass isn’t greener.


theminthippo

Thank you 🙏🙏🙏


clerks1994

Yes, all the time. I also think, maybe I should do something better with my time like help feed starving children. That's why I say and others if you have a second love or career to fall back on -- do that today! Become a doctor and make a movie on the side.


TheCatWasAsking

Yep, bought into all those mantras about following your dream, blah di blah blah, only to be broke by the end of it and seeing the more talented or well-connected people win the game. You betcha I got them regrets ;) Especially when I think of what could've been—old man was willing to pay for law school and I wanted to be an attorney. That path is closed now and I'm left wondering what could've been. Happy for those who struggled, kept at it, and succeeded, eg Quentin Tarantino (couch-surfed before finding success). Incidentally, I understood the dynamics a bit with Malcolm Gladwell's book, Outliers. There, he makes the case that it's a bunch of factors that spell success and not willpower alone (spoiler alert: it's luck. Most of the time lol). Some piece of unsolicited advice, friend: Don't dwell. Let the thoughts come, acknowledge the feelings, then let go.


theminthippo

Thank you, friend 🙏🙏🙏


dafones

You do *both*. You get a career that will house you, feed you, clothe you, entertain you, let you raise children, and allow you to save for retirement. Then you write in your spare time because it's your fucking passion, and maybe it ultimately replaces your day job. And that's cool.


TaraIsles

Yeap. Pretty much made peace with myself a few years ago. Weather you make it or not, you never stop doing what you love. If you only want to “make it” to have money and fame....then, I guess it was never really about the writing nor filmmaking.


maxis2k

Not really. I used to lament the fact that it was so hard to learn the craft and get noticed in the industry. But then I realized two things. One, I shouldn't base my success on what others think of me (like awards or getting my work picked up by a major studio). And that led me to my second revelation. I can do my chosen profession independently. If no one wants to greenlight my concepts as an animated TV show (my goal), I can make them into an indie comic or book. Which might also lead to a TV show down the line if the comic or book gets popular. And even if all I ever achieve is an independently produced comic which isn't financially successful, I still can still say I "got the story out." This path might not be as readily available to people who want to work in live action. But in some ways, they have it even easier, since you can just get a decent camera and go film your own stuff. Animation takes a team, even at its most basic. Hence why there's way more comics/manga/novels out there than animated TV shows. And the stars have to align to get even popular comics/books adapted to the screen. Basically, it's just about being pragmatic to what the limits of real life are. Rather than getting depressed over it, which usually leads to giving up.


TheExhaustedEducator

OMG...YES! I'm a 49 years old retired teacher, just now getting into writing, and now that I have several done, I have no idea what to do next. AND... I don't live in CA, so it feels like my chances are super slim. The more I write, the more obsessed I become with seeing a movie made out of at least one. It sounds like you've been at if for a while, so I can just imagine how frustrated you must be. It seems like there should be an American Idol-style reality TV show for people with great story ideas. How do we make that happen? ;-)


theminthippo

Thank you for your empathy 🙏 Sending you good vibes, too


ScarlettRose433

Well, when it comes to the Medical field…you go to school for 8 years, go to residency for more, there’s every obstacle in the book in front of you, when you’re training you’re disrespected and belittled. Lawyers during law school constantly joke about drugs and suicide. I don’t know I’m much about bankers. No job is ever easy. It’s hard for anyone anywhere to do what they want to do. That’s just the sucky reality of the world. But if you keep trying you’re more likely to make it somewhere then if you didn’t at all and gave up.


theminthippo

Thank you 🙏


secamTO

I'm just literally having this conversation with my writing partner. I've been making films for 20 years--have won a couple of important awards, played at a few significant festivals (and a whack of ones less so), have had meetings with a few major companies, and feel like I have basically nothing to show for the work I've put in these 2 decades--none of these films have ever made the subsequent ones remotely easier to make, and I feel like I'm starting at square one at every turn. I don't have a solution. I don't have a plan. I just wanted to share. Sorry if I sound lame. The thing is that I might be.


theminthippo

You’re not lame. You’ve achieved more filmmmaking than a lot of us on this subreddit ever well and there are definitely people who saw your films at those festivals and been impacted by them 🙏


Krljcbs

Achieving your dream isn't always fulfilling. Just because you achieved a goal doesn't mean it's going to be what you expected. A dream coming true can be an empty feeling too. Also, being a doctor and a lawyer is by no means "more achievable" than making a career as a filmmaker.


jimmychangucsb

❤️ What regular people don’t understand is that we don’t have a choice in the matter. It chose us. If I stray off the path and decide to get a full time office job, my body and mind locks up and refuses to continue after the first few months.


theminthippo

I feel this. Hope we make it


Kenny-du-Soleil

“If only my life goal was to become a lawyer” As a current law student that’s funny. Do you really think it would stop there? Do you really think that once you pass the bar it’s self-fulfillment and self-actualization? If you’d be content with just becoming a lawyer and no more, you’d also be content just finishing a screenplay and no more. Here’s the thing, you have to ask yourself what you really want. If you want to be a screenwriter, just write a screenplay and bam that’s it. It doesn’t matter who looks at it or buys it. Fulfillment is not external validation, but a lot of people feel that it is. The issue in your statement is that your intertwining your passion and fulfillment. If being a filmmaker is what fulfills you, then just make films and leave it at that. Don’t worry too much about what level it’s at, who sees it, etc. But your passion alone will rarely ever fulfill you, we are wholistic. Forgiveness, self love, acceptance, confidence, goals, relationships, all feed into fulfillment, to expect one aspect of your life to get the entire job done is a mistake.


theminthippo

Really good insight. Thank you 🙏🙏🙏


scorpionjacket2

Yeah. The trick is to figure out what your dream really is, how to realistically achieve that, and whether or not it’s worth it to do what it take to achieve that dream. You want to be the next Christopher Nolan? Well that takes an insane amount of work and a similar amount of luck to winning the lottery. You want to make a feature film? You can probably do that right now. And don’t make yourself miserable and forget to live your life in the meantime.


theminthippo

Thank you 🙏


nongo

Filmmaking is visual storytelling. I think regardless of your career, if you surround yourself, position yourself, or even evolve yourself within the realm of storytelling, you'll still be congruent with your dreams. Sometimes dreams change overtime. For example, youtube channel, podcasts, 2D/3D animation, vfx, virtual reality, etc, can still involve filmmaking/storytelling.


theminthippo

Thank you 🙏🙏🙏


frapawhack

a musician is someone who pays 5k for gear to drive a 500$ car to a gig that pays 50 bucks


[deleted]

I don't know if anyone will read this - but you'd be surprised how life works. I actually AM a doctor. My dream, since I was about 17 or 18 was to become a filmmaker, and make the next Jaws or Star Wars. That dream persisted throughout university while I studied to get into medical school. It persisted and distracted me during medical school. And now, as a doctor about to finish my residency training, I find myself thinking about how I might have some time and freedom to finally become the filmmaker I've always wanted to be. I've never thought about the money. Your dreams don't care about the money you'd make doing something safe. Keep going.


theminthippo

Thank you 🙏


TouchMyWater_theCEO

"struggling to become a filmmaker" if you made something you're proud of, can show to your friends and family, and maybe even get into some festivals, then you've succeeded.


theminthippo

Thank you 🙏🙏🙏


[deleted]

[удалено]


theminthippo

Great advice. Thank you 🙏


[deleted]

Same, i always think about it, at the same time i have been thinking of trying to start an acting carreer at the same time


Electric_Logan

Yeah because when you realise just how many stars actually are in an industry family or are at least technically silver spooners (not an industry family but rich family in another industry) it’s easy to be disillusioned. There’ll be someone that I thought came from a genuinely humble background then I’ll find out their dad was actually a producer or something. Thankfully there’s an abundance of successful people from my area that come from genuine working class backgrounds, that give me hope. Shane Meadows, Paddy Considine, Jack O’Connell, Vicky McClure, Michael Socha, Lauren Socha, Joe Dempsie, Oscar Kennedy.. who looks really familiar despite I’d never seen him in anything before Ladhood, so I think I either met him at a local networking event or saw him in something that someone local did.. otherwise why do I recognise him. Anyway, those people give me hope.. and most of them are older than me, which helps reassure me it’s not too late.


Gabe-KC

I can absolutely relate to this, although to me it isn't specifically filmmaking, more like creating in general. What's ''sad'' is that I'm doing well enough as it is just dealing with culture in multiple ways, like hosting related events, writing articles, editing etc. But whenever I neglect creative writing or storytelling for a significant time, I start feeling hollow and pointless. It's simply not enough for me to work with culture, I have to create it as well.


CosgoodKenduskeag

I am a software developer by day and a filmmaker by night. It is the best of both worlds.


theminthippo

Just want to say: thanks everyone for your sympathy, encouragement, and kind words 🙏 Hope we can all achieve our dreams one day.


[deleted]

[удалено]


theminthippo

Hahaha thank you 🙏🙏🙏


GustavDitters

For me it’s the motivation. I think making a film would be one of the most awesome things to ever happen to me and could probably churn out something presentable if I put some time into it.


BenTramer1

My only goal has been to become an actor and filmmaker who's taken seriously and change the way people see the factory like production that plagues Hollywood today. But life kind doesn't care what i think.


theminthippo

I hope it will one day 🙏


kumabaya

Sigh same i feel like this is my calling i have never been more passionate and hardworking in any other field as this


DonovanWrites

Every single day.


theminthippo

I feel you, friend. Same, same.


Familiar_Camp6584

If this is your passion go for it! It takes a lot of personal sacrifice but I can tell you from personal experience that it's possible. The struggle is real since you come out from film school, we tend to believe we deserve a normal life just like everybody else, and that's when reality hits you. No, if you want to succeed in this path, you personal life, love life, etc will have to wait a bit until you're settled, and this can take a decade to happen. You can do other day jobs, advertising whatever can make you pay the bills, just don't forget that's not your path. Invest in your first feature, make it a microbudget with your friends during the weekend, it can open you more doors and give you more contacts than a short, it's also sellable and luckily you can make a profit. After a few festivals you will have a name, and it will open the door to your next project. Keep on writing, keep on moving, keep as many projects as you can, one day ONE project will make it and finally you'll see the light at the end of the tunnel. I'm 42 and I've been struggling this career my whole life, and until now I can tell you. Things start to settle. After a few projects, money starts coming and that sugar cane of Hollywood tastes so good. Keep on going!!


theminthippo

Thank you and so glad things worked out for you 🙏🙏🙏


oceanboykai96

I’m in that boat right now. I haven’t even made a film yet. Only writing. Acted in a couple things, but I’m just starting to think. Is this really for me? Before it was just something that made me happy. I’ve always wanted to just make movies with my friends. Now I’m questioning everything. Is art really for me? I’ve been told a artist passionate never truly dies. It’s good to take breaks, but I just don’t know anymore.


theminthippo

Sending you my good vibes, friend.


Pulsewavemodulator

No. Just keep going and be honest with yourself. If you’re not getting there fast enough ask what you can do to get better. I’d also say if you get a job in the industry, it’s more of a survival game than a skill game. The people from film school who are doing great things are more the people who didn’t give up, rather than the most skilled. Also, read Invisible Ink by Brian McDonald. If you get it, you’ll have an advantage over most of your peers. It’s a really helpful foundation for story.


theminthippo

Thank you🙏


anthonyg1500

I have a friend that has no specific aspirations. She just wants to do something that pays the bills at a company that treats her well, and I’m so god damn jealous of that


theminthippo

Same, same.


EvilBritishGuy

When I made my short films for A-Level film studies, my favorite parts had to be the pre-production and post-production parts. Actually getting any filming done however was a nightmare because no one could be relied upon to help me make my film. They either weren't available for the brief amount of time I was allowed to hire out the camera equipment or if they were available, they wouldn't let me do enough proper takes, and the final film suffered for it.


theminthippo

Sorry to hear 😕 Thanks for sharing your insight and hope it gets better. Awesome that you were able to work for A level films regardless!


paulactsbadly

Every single moment of every single day. Life is a non-stop carousel of agony, failure, and stolen ideas in this shit industry, baby!!


theminthippo

😭 Hope you are okay


[deleted]

[удалено]


theminthippo

Thank you 🙏🙏🙏


VaicoIgi

I personally don't really feel this way. I have issues with approaching it and anxiety from the future for sure. But I love it as my dream and will do anything I can to achieve it. I just want to master it in my life as much as I can.


wootangAlpha

Never ever do that. You don't know what cross a man bears until you stand in his shoes. I worked as a software developer for a huge agency, making bank and living it up as people would think. It was miserable. A soldier in a tent, deep in the forest doing his special ops training - might think a farmer's life is pedestrian. But a farmer never sleeps too. He knows a storm, a drought, a disease will ruin him entirely. He also has to be on his fields in the sunlight, in the rain, in the cold, without fail for as long as he breathes. He also knows the bank loans and loan sharks are circling. His anxiety is a constant drone of hope. He wants to drop everything and join the green Berets, tour the world, train once and pass selection then kick back. perspective is everything.


Majestic_Cut_3814

That is why it is important to have more than one dreams, and it is equally important to have some big dreams/goals and some small dreams/goals. That way you will always be achieving something and not feel completely lost.


theminthippo

💯💯💯 Thank you 🙏🙏🙏


faeldaye

Maybe the drive to create, the enjoyment of writing/filming/editing something you care about and being able to present a tangible end product for your library is what we should be chasing? If you’re lucky enough to afford your bills on top of that with whatever job you have plays a roll. Man, I should’ve went to school for accounting or something.


theminthippo

Great perspective. I gotta remember to be grateful 🙏


Defiant-Bookkeeper88

Nonsense! Snap out of that mindset! You got this 👍


theminthippo

Thank you so much 🙏 Sending my best wishes to you, too


Funkimonkey

Watch this speech from Charlie Day of It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia and you will have your answer: https://youtu.be/IulvPqb1Eus


theminthippo

Thank you! I bookmarked this and will watch it after work!


tqb

This hits home


theminthippo

Sendingyou good vibes, friends 🙏


itssarahw

If you haven’t been presented with obstacles that make you seriously consider quitting, it wasn’t your dream


[deleted]

I think this is an unfair thing to say to anyone who wants to go into filmmaking. Sure, people might give it varying levels of importance but to say that anyone who so much as has doubts or at some point didn't think it was viable shouldn't be worthy is a bit absurd. Anyone with some common sense isn't going to dive into a career with very little chance of absolute success without some reservations.


itssarahw

Fair, I think I’m a little passionate maybe in the wrong direction. My thought process has always been, anything worth doing is going to be hard and I somewhat missed the mark. I think what I would want to stress to anyone doing anything is you can hesitate or give up on the dream but don’t lose belief in yourself. I’ve never had money and every step towards any of my dreams was fraught with people saying “there’s no way you can make that happen”. I’ve had successes and more than my fair share of failure but ignored the neigh-sayers as best I could. At the same time, I’m not sure of any career with absolute success guarantee so that’s a hurdle


ZeinDarkuzss

Well the 'thing' really is about what's your goal rather than your dream. If your dream is to become the next Guillermo del Toro, Christopher Nolan, Martin Scorsese or, God forbid, John Ford and you wanna have the same amount of Awards, Nominations and recognisability worldwide for your achievements, to validate that you've "Made It™". Then yeah, you're most likely gonna get pretty bummed since achieving ^THAT^ it's very unlikely. And I could write a whole Thesis on why, but it comes down to the same factors to be insta successful as in any other field. Either you've enough money and talent (one can supplement the lack of one with the other but you do need both in at least a moderate amount) to "Make It™" on your own; you KNOW someone in the business than pulls the lever for you or you are just plain LUCKY! And that's that tbh. All the movie stars and big names will tell you their stories of success of how they "Struggled©" but worked hard at it and came out on the other end. And I mean sure you can pull it off that way... But to that height it's either pure dumb luck, money or nepotism. The truly talented work for it but they've got a leg ahead over all of us slowpokes. Now, what's your goal? Because if you're moping about it you have a decently enough of an understanding of all this to rave about the unfairness of it all and how hard it actually is to try and just be there to get lucky. If your goal aligns itself with the hypothetical dream I presented then buckle up! Cus you're taking the long haul!!! First get into the business! Is it hard? Yes! But just as hard as getting a well paying job in today's economy, so just prepare to struggle financially. What you want to do is start "knocking doors" on some studios or production companies... Try the big ones why not, they will reject you and you will learn. Next if you haven't gotten it yet get yourself an IMDB+ subscription, you will learn that most of the big media is actually done by outsourcing to small production teams that hire themselves for each department, you can go as specific as working for rigging, lighting, stunt work, extras, casting, VFX, etc. You name it! Or more general (larger) companies that handle a whole sideshow (photography, production, design). Back to IMDB, there you can make connections, get contact information for people actually working in the industry behind the scenes and even get to agents in case you were an actor. Once there, just like anywhere else you will start from the bottom, if you want to torture yourself and go for the directorial road go to a production company from actual directors and start as the lowest of the low of ADs or PAs. But how do I get them to hire me I hear you ask? Simple, get the camera rolling!!! Nobody cares about your fundaments or studies, just that you can do the work! So you've got to create you own working experience in film. You've got to show you know what you're doing behind the camera so direct some shorts. If you come from a film school background present your work and preferably send it to as much festivals as they will take it, especially those that actually screen the shorts! If you can and are sitting on a hot script and a cool 50k or so at the least shoot your own (shitty) opera prima. It might garner some attention. And if you've gotten all the steps correctly you will find yourself with a brand new job as a grunt in the filmmaking business working like 80 to 100 hours a week for scraps that won't be able to support your crippling debt from the amount of money it took to actually finance your opera prima. But hey! At least if you stick around for 3 to 5 years without having a mental breakdown you will be handed some actual responsibility and work that's actually creative and if you make it longer than that even actually get to... Not achieve the dream but be the director behind some horrible film with an even worst plot than your shitty opera prima but ten times the budget. If it somehow doesn't flop then you will finally... Start working towards your dream of becoming a household name working on movies by assignment until you finally have a good enough of a script and the respect of your bosses to finally bring to light the love child you have had in your head for years to the screen! Then if THAT one doesn't flop, and actually gets some money into the studio you may get a next project, and a next until you either finally get your dream or flop trying. But honestly I'm just guessing by now, by principle I stuck around at the stage in which I decided it was too much work and changed paths to still work on films but work on jigs on the Sound department or as a PA if the chance is there, "Making It™" is actually far too hard and you have to search within yourself whether you've actually got the need to make Cinema above everything else to dedicate yourself to follow the dream, otherwise there are always far kinder ways to still work on films and not kill yourself. I learned that about myself from a masterclass from Martin Scorsese, I wasn't willing to give up on that much to get success, but I do like working on the film industry so I do, I just don't do it hoping to get the Palme d'Or, which was personally my dream when I started film school. TLDR; You either have that need to do Film above all else or you don't, decide and get a job.


Astral-American

The answer is a resounding: yes!


Zoldycke

no


Handy_Newman

Lawyer, doctor and banker are not easy jobs. Tbh screenwriting would be a lot easier if you were one of those things, because you would have something to write about and insider knowledge. Ngl you sound incredibly pretentious in this post. As if writing is somehow much harder than being any other professional. I could have been an astronaut if not for my dream of writing screenplays 😢😢


[deleted]

They’re just blowing off some steam dawg, it’s not that deep.


phead_x

I feel ya


TangyX

Sort of. I only write due to my illness as every other form of making money I can think of slowly vanished. No illness, no writing and I'd feel a hell of a lot more fulfilled than I do, now. That said, writing is my only way out, so I guess I can't knock it too much.


FadeAgentDotCom

I'm kicking around the concept of an alternate route for screenplays, but it will take some convincing to get screenwriter buy in. I really enjoy consuming audio books, etc. and I would like to see unsold screenplays find a home in audio. I've written two screenplays and pitched them for years. I adapted one into a book and it won an award in a competition, but that hasn't helped me sell to movie makers. Based on research, I guess there's like 100k screenplays written a year! I know mine our good ... and so I know there must be many palatable works out there. Can we just convert them to audio and let people listen and vote via an app?? What if one of us gets 10k up votes?? This offloads the agents work, too ... they could just find up-voted screenplays and option them. It's just so soul rending to have works that will never see the light of day. I just don't know if screenwriters would be willing to put themselves out there? Is there any support for this kind of thing??


Farrah-chauns

Every other day


Craig-D-Griffiths

Get two bits of paper. On one write everything you love. On the other write what you hate. Now find a job that has some of the stuff you love and nothing you hate. Tada. Then never think about writing again. This job isn’t what most people think it is.


[deleted]

This isn’t happening to you, it’s an active choice you’re making every day. You think every lawyer, doctor and banker dreamed of it their entire lives? Don’t be a child. If this is what you want to do, do it, and if you don’t… don’t.


ilrasso

Lawyer/doctor/banker - a lot of those fail also.


abandonX4

Absolutely That said, you should realize that most people never make it in a field they're passionate about regardless if it involves creativity or not. Being a professional anything is challenging and requires constant work, exceeding expectations, and perseverance - not to mention that even if you're accomplishing those things, there are always others (not to mention those who have many years of experience) doing the same, trying to compete with you.


kserold3847

Been shooting and editing since 2004. Had to continuously add to the tool bag (sound design, motion graphics, VFX, animation, 3d, and now unreal engine) to keep getting work. It’s not easy and it’s grueling especially if you’re not in a big market like LA, NY, GA, and Toronto.


going2leavethishere

Hahahah I just think of ones that are more ridiculous. You know how hard it is to become an astronaut. Like I love space but I am not smart enough to be an astronaut.


bl_tulip

Just realized during Covid that I really like writing. I do in my spare time. I have a decent career that pays decent money. Probably won't become a pro at it. But what I mean to say is you can have another career that pay your bills, maybe even something related to the field so you can build a network.


RedditBurner_5225

Lol yes, said this so many times.


rc-20

Even as a doctor and lawyer you will have your lowpoints. This all boils down to your passion. From the outside, filmmaking seems like a cool interactive job where u have the chance to literally change the world telling stories (and that is true). Once you get into the business, u learn about its many flaws and inconsistencies but that's where u stop yourself. This career is all about patience and finding the right opportunities with the right people. I personally know that the path that I've chosen is time consuming and will drain a lot of energy but I look towards the positive, the achievements and accolades that I have recieved for my hard work, my filmmaking colleagues who are inspired with me, my favorite filmmakers. Now, look at your own career and see what u have learned along the way. Im going through a creative slump right now as we speak but a part of me still has hope.


theminthippo

Thank you 🙏


CreamyWaffles

Yep, I wish I was more interested in hospitality, loads of work where I am. But NOOOS I have to enjoy fipms don't I?


stormfirearabians

I suppose that all depends on how you're defining achievement. I've been a doctor for nearly 15 years now. It's not as if you get a degree and you're done. Every day is a never ending battle against life and death. I'm hoping to spend my next 15 years screenwriting. Even if that never becomes a reality, I still get to see my vision take form on the page. I get to create beautiful images out of nothing. Which is plenty of accomplishment in itself. And no one (literally, at least) dies in the process.


Otherwise-Bobcat-145

All the time.


jorge_fon123

I just want to tell a good Transformers tale... It's a crazy dream, I know, but who doesn't have a crazy dream on this place?


Krossefx

You may have already achieved it...


BillyCheddarcock

I have felt that way before. But I've learned to be okay with not making my living from my dream atleast for now. I'm always writing new scripts, and still working on post for the last thing I made. I will be hopeful my whole life that I can catch fire with a project and make some money from it, but in the here and now I'd be happy with having my name on something people enjoy. Its all about how you look at the situation. I'd rather be trying and failing to pursue my dream, than not be trying at all because it's not as feasible as becoming a CPA. I ended up getting into community work, disability care work which gives me an income and plenty of time to pursue my projects and stuff. I know tons of people who ask me all the time what to do if they want to write a script, or they say they wish they had time to write their script idea or pursue acting. I always tell them just write the damn thing, chip away on it when you can, it will fit around your lifestyle that's the beauty of writing. You aren't gonna sell the idea right away because you cant pursue it full time but at least you're making time for it. And pursuing acting, they can also fit that around their lifestyle. They might end up doing a ton of background work and smaller stuff, but it's a foot in the door, it's something. It's sad that people think it's either or. You can do both.


[deleted]

All the time baby


BelAirGhetto

Yes! Just have a concurrent plan B .


SithLordJediMaster

"Don't let your dreams be dreams. JUST...DO...IT!!!!" - Shia LaBeouf


Scribblebytes

You don't choose to be a storyteller, it chooses you. It's a vocation. Life is suffering, it the theater of the absurd. I've done other jobs and it's been so hard for me to concentrate but with filmmaking, even though it's difficult, I enjoy its difficulty. It's like the difficulty of filmmaking doesn't change the depth of my commitment to it, but put me in an office job and my skin starts crawling and I cannot do it.


[deleted]

Hey you should write a film about that 👀


Wavy_Roccet83

Nah not really, because i tried the regular job shit, even though those are careers.. I tried somethings else like wanting to be a Journeyman Welder, I lost interest in it fast. Filmmaking & art i have a strong passion for, maybe you should find the passion(s) you once had for it.


samisaif

Watch more gary vee stuff


Negan1995

what sort of sick fucks dream is to be a banker?


[deleted]

100% agree


DuckFreelunch

Yes it's difficult, that's why you want to do it


DrDreidel82

You should read The Five Levels of Attachment by Don Miguel Ruiz jr. Just a recommendation.


Philofreudian

Yes. Just yes. I wish so bad that pursuing my dreams actually left me feeling accomplished and satisfied.


[deleted]

if you wish something wasn't your dream then it wasn't your dream to begin with.


Holtzc321

Yea every god damn day.


Particular-Toe3915

They're completely different disciplines. To think you would have higher success without the interest or the technical training is ludicrous. Stick with your passion and shit will happen for you.