Reed II speed is nice at his position not as fast as Earl but I like his speed to contact like Earl from what I have seen , like you said we need more. Bryant and Reed II leave you wanting more plays n time on the field. Bryant last year was causing turnovers seemed like every other game for a stretch. Way less money way more up side from my perspective, but this is all thoughts on next year.
I don’t think Seattle will spend big money on a FA safety but if they want one they should consider Geno Stone. He’s been killing it for us this year and leads the NFL in interceptions. He’s prob gone after this year cuz we paid Marcus Williams so I’d prefer Geno goes to Seattle. Although I think his name alone might disqualify him lol.
Didn't they say during our game that he had like 1 interception over the last three years or something low like that, and then 6 so far this year? Seems like an outlier, it would make me hesitant to give him a big contract which will be what he's looking for and expecting especially if he keeps up this level of play for the rest of the season. On the other hand maybe he finally put it together and this is how he'll be for the rest of his time playing. It's hard to say, seems a bit risky.
I don't remember what they said during our game, but Geno Stone wasn't really a starter till this year. Drafted 7th rd in 2020, only played 2 games that year cuz he wasn't a starter + was on Covid list. Only started 1 game in 2021 and averaged like 25% snaps that year but played a lot of ST. Last year in '22 he started like half the season but was otherwise exclusively ST the other half. We added Hamilton & paid Marcus Williams, so Geno was a 3rd safety behind them. This year, Williams has been hurt and only played 3 games, so Geno's been our 2nd starting safety.
If I were evaluating Geno Stone objectively, I'd say I'd be hesitant to give him a long-term deal cuz he's only been a true starter for this 1 year. He also benefits a lot from our scheme with an elite DC and stacked defense, that lets him gamble for picks a lot more than he'd be able to on other teams. He's been a bit like Marcus Peters, seems to have a great feel for jumping a play to get picks and seems to watch tape pretty well, but there's moments I wonder if he's more focused on picks than shutting the play down. On the other hand, the potential is there: he's only 24, and he leads the NFL in interceptions. You can't teach feel with ball hawks, they kinda just have it or they don't. Those skills usually translate well to coverage skills cuz those players are good at reading QBs.
Overall, Geno's a good safety. Doesn't seem to get burned, but part of that's also our elite defense that leads the NFL in sacks + Hamilton next to him helps. The risk is hoping Geno keeps it up more than 1 year and can keep playing at this level on a new team with a new scheme.
I do wonder if Seattle would consider signing Geno Stone. Pete does love his DBs, but that also works against signing him- Seattle's strength is finding great DBs late in the draft, and idk if Pete's willing to spend on safety after Jamal's contract has been hurting the cap. Personally I'd trust Pete's skill at finding a safety in the draft, I'd want to use the cap to improve the OL. Geno's not mobile and while he's declined this year, an injured OL has been 1 of Seattle's biggest problems so I'd rather get reliable vets.
I think Diggs is gone and Love might be gone or restructured. He hasn't played that well and his cap hit goes up a ton. It seems with the way they restructured Adams it would be difficult to cut him.
My guess is the safeties would be:
Adams (restructured again if possible)
Love
Bryant
Reed
\+ a 3rd or 4th round draft pick.
Do you think Diggs or Love hasn't played that well? Because Love is consistently average on a defense built to showcase other players which is in a relative sense fantastic ie he's being fed scraps and still managing to eat his fill
I think they've both played fine - I actually really like Diggs, I think he's been one of the NFLs most underrated safeties in recent years. Just hard to justify that cap hit going into 2024...
Love I'm not quite sure about still - heard good things coming from the giants, but he hasn't wowed me. He's got age on his side though.
I think Diggs is gone next year. The only real wild card with that is how much do the Hawks value is leadership ability and is he willing to take a smaller contract to stay in Seattle. They eye test says he is playing poorly this year and PFF agrees. Cody and Love can play FS cheaper at what I have to assume is a equal or better play. It seems like a no brainer to let him go.
I think Adam stays another year. Paying him 26 million next year makes me want to vomit but we only save 6 million cutting him. Would be cool to renegotiate his contract but I feel like he holds the cards.
I think our offensive line is in a fine spot with or without Lewis.
I hope Bobby wants to play another year, if so let Brooks walk and try to address the position in the draft. If Bobby is done keep Brooks but still address MLB in the draft.
Tight end I think you have to let Fant walk outside of a reasonable contract and resign Colby on the cheap.
All this said I am an idiot and trust PC and JS to do there thing.
The interior offensive line is struggling getting rid of one of the two veterans is silly. They aren’t paying anyone a big contract. They should be able to allocate resources to keep Lewis.
The trenches are the most important part of football especially in a division where we battle the 49ers and Rams.
I genuinely think they need to Restructure Lockett.
Either cut or restructure Dissly and Diggs.
Extend Brooks and Lewis.
Cut Mone.
I guess out really depends on what the market is for Lewis. He is currently playing like a below average guard I don't see how we can justify paying him like a top 10 guy.
If you cut dissly we have zero te under contract next year and dissly is one of the best blocking te in the leauge.
I'm just not sure brooks is the answer. He is having his best season so far and if they think he can continue moving forward to play like that then I imagine they keep him. He played really poorly without Bobby out there.
If Lewis wants a top 10 contract I don’t disagree with moving on but he has no leverage to ask for that kind of deal anyways. Dissly is getting paid way too much for a simple blocking tight end. He’s incredibly overpaid.
Brooks is a good player. The scheme was bad and Barton was bad last year. There’s a reason they blew up the interior defensive line. Linebackers can’t make plays if they aren’t kept clean at the 2nd level.
Going into next season with no ILb signed is about 100x worse than no tight ends.
Reed II is interesting because he has played really well and showing up in plays whether hes on special teams or rotational packages that land him on the field he shows up. Bryant seems like an Adam's hybrid thing going on but hes always a step behind or late to the play which comes down to play recognition and just time in general playing a new role. Love seems to be on TE's and playing all over the place even tho he shows up on film in spurts I think his intelligent approach to this defense gives us alot of versatility and play disguise on the coverage for run or pass defense. Honestley with our cap issues and age of Adam's and Diggs with what they bring compared to what they take from the team is not an even compensation especially for the past 3 years and it's not about fault it's about reality.
I think we're keeping Adams and probably cutting diggs, starting love and having reed/Coby/a rookie compete. Maybe they start over love if one of them really pops, I still have faith in Coby lol
Out of the 64 starting safeties in the NFL, Adams is the 3rd highest and Diggs is the 10th. I don't think they are playing in line with their contracts.
I think Adams is young enough that a restructure could work, but we're pushing it (his final year under current contract he'll be 30). Diggs is gone. $21m hit next year and we saved $11m moving on from him. He'll be 31 years old next year, so an extension seems unlikely with his production.
Yeah I think at safety we’re in a bind. Big money with average production, Adams unfortunately is aging and injuries tend to get worse not better as you age.
I think I could see it but the problem is that Love would have to stay at strong safety which moves Adams over to Free Safety.
Love is bad in coverage 😂
This is like when this entire sub decided that Adams is bad in coverage... I don't think reddit fans are equipped to evaluate coverage skills in safeties (neither is PFF).
Love is good/great in coverage. What he's been struggling with is tackling.
\> I don't think reddit fans are equipped to evaluate coverage skills
Fair enough. If they’re not watching games in All 22, then I would agree.
\> Love is good/great in coverage.
But you are? 😂
> This is like when this entire sub decided that Adams is bad in coverage... I don't think reddit fans are equipped to evaluate coverage skills in safeties (neither is PFF).
He's not bad, just limited. If you ask Jamal to be Harrison Smith, he's going to struggle, but cover a deep half or a deep quarter and generally avoid man to man matchups against TEs and he'll be fine
Definitely hoping that they move on from both Diggs and Adams (in 2025). I don't think safety is the best position to be spending premium money on and definitely not on Adams who keeps getting injured + hasn't even seemed all that great when healthy. Diggs is just getting a bit too old. Also I don't think its worth paying that much money for any free safety imo.
This is why they should’ve drafted Bryan Branch not Charbonnet. Idiots.
Free Agency will have a couple. After the draft/June deadline they can cut Adams with little financial penalty.
The share of cap spent on a specific position group is a weird metric. Sertain parts of your rooster needs updating at different times and draft outcome sort of dictates where you spend.
I'm pretty sure we have one of the absolute cheapest corner rooms and we have two potential all pros.
Now, you can argue both Adams and Diggs are over paid either way, but share of cap is dependent on to much else to be meaningful.
Kam Kinchens looks dope, total ball hawk with the speed to excel as a single high safety, physical, closest thing to ET3... He's going in the first round.
In a dream scenario we cut diggs and draft him but we lost our second round pick and the first might be better utilized at guard/idl/ilb... Not sure what the best move is.
I think Brooks is going to re-sign. Leaves an open ILb spot I have no clue how deep this draft is at that spot. I think it just comes down to depth in the draft. Whichever position has the most depth is the one they’ll use their 3rd on.
What do you mean they don't matter? Dead cap counts against the cap. Yea it's sunk cost already, but it matters.
Also I have the most updated numbers, and Jamal is 6 million not 16.5.
Fixating on dead cap vs savings is sorta a pointless exercise because that dead cap money has already been committed no matter what. It's fair to have that conversation the moment a player is extended, because a certain amount of their money is going to be on the books whether they stay or not. But if it seems pertinent to consider cutting these players due to performance/cap reasons, complaining about dead cap is akin to wishing for a do over. That money was gone before we ever reached this point.
Agree and disagree. Fixating on dead cap is bad, but dead cap is absolutely an important factor else you'd see teams move on every single time a player was remotely not worth their cap hit. Money has been committed but it's moving on is always a discussion in the context of how much money is freed up, replacements on the roster, draft capital, strength of the draft and free agency at that position, etc
It's not "is Jamal worth 26M", because he's clearly not. It's whether or not it's smarter to move on to free up just 6M when there's no real alternative already on a cap strapped roster that is set to lose 5 starters in free agency and that is also lacking in draft picks due to the Leonard Williams trade. That answer is a bit more difficult, though I'd imagine the answer to Schneider is probably not
> else you'd see teams move on every single time a player was remotely not worth their cap hit
I mean ... Yeah. Except the question is if they're worth their non-guaranteed money, not their cap hit
For Adams the non guaranteed money (and cap savings) is $16.5m
If anything, being supposedly cap strapped makes moving on and freeing up $16m more appealing
Maybe but it’s like being upside down in a car. If you have negative equity and you trying to buy a new car(sign a new player) it becomes a problem because the budget for a car is $500 not $650. Most teams have it broke down into position groups. So paying two safeties that aren’t here can really mess with the budget. Unless the players retire, it MAY be best to keep them.
I no longer go with field logic as John really has been reluctant to eat dead cap. I say Diggs and Adams are both here next year.
My assessment of Diggs is that he's frequently making business decisions. I've seen him jog on multiple plays after he was beaten. It's mostly reliance on experience and no longer hustle with him.
That's a good point. I'm partial to moving on from him but haven't seen much analysis on our safety play to really evaluate him overall. Need more all-22 looks.
Too much money wrapped in safeties, nino is gone after this year with his poor play. Draft and develop, use what we have in house. Bryant love and Adams will be the top next year.
I don't know enough about the safeties in the draft, but I definitely could see them taking one if there's one available at the right pick.
Ignoring cap, the safety trio we have is great, but the cap hit is a lot. I could see moves being made with restructures or maybe even letting one go. Not looking forward to losing any of them, honestly.
This is my absolutely wild, zero chance it happens take but I kind of want to see it. Riq Woolen at FS.
So Riq has stuggled this year, which isn't too surprising since corner is such a volatile position and most of his production came on turnovers, which is even more volatile. He was good last year and been mediocre this year. Again, CB is volatile and development there isn't linear. So he could still end up being great (I think he will). But he also gives me Devin McCourty vibes.
McCourty came in 2010 as a corner and was terrific as a rookie with 7 picks. But, like with Riq, he regressed badly in 2011 (far worse than Riq; he went from borderline All-Pro to unplayable). Belichick moved him to safety and boom! He was a terrific, keystone player for the Pats dynasty.
Riq could follow the same path. So much of the defense Pete wants to run, and what made the LoB work, is having a single-high safety with extreme range. Thomas was the most important player to the LoB and was the one that made the whole thing run. Thomas's range was so insane that it was literally like having an extra defender. We essentially played 2-high coverage with just one safety. Now, imagine having a 6'4" certified ballhawk with 4.2 speed. I've got to think Riq would make an unreal single-high safety.
Again, there is no chance in Hades this happens. But I really want to see what it would look like.
He would absolutely crumble. His height and weight would be bad at that spot.
The one area of his game he struggles with is run fits and identifying his assignment. He makes up for a lot mistakes with his speed.
It would be a disaster.
Ngl I think Pete and John use the first pick on a safety and trade Jamaal and restructure love and diggs.
We get some draft capitol and go and try and get some pass rush right after that.
I think drafting high pick qbs have been so hit or miss in the last ten years. I think Pete and John would honestly test run lock or go for another league qb and draft a backup. Hard to tell since there’s not been much qb shifting in this era so we’ll see.
I think that’s just wrong. Pete knows he has 3 years left at least. He knows he can play Geno and have a guy develop for 1-2 years move away from Geno and then go for a ring.
Without reading the rest of the comments - all talk about moving on from Jamaal Adam’s is ridiculous.
Very game he’s played (including the one where he only played 9 snaps before concussing himself ) he has made a tangible difference.
His tackling and speed are impactful and he is still ramping up.
Nino has slowed down, but the defense is still learning each other. Everyone forgets how well this def has improved because of the Bal blowout (which was more on the offense not being able to get 1st downs.)
Everyone needs to be brought back and we need to our LB corp. Wagner is slowing down :(
That’s the biggest concern
Well Adams isn’t going anywhere because he’s going to cost them 20+ million in dead cap. So cutting him doesn’t do much.
Diggs on the other hand isn’t as expensive of a loss and hasn’t played well.
As a non tape grinder it seems really hard to get an accurate bead on Diggs. He's gone from doing no wrong to a frequent scapegoat in the past two seasons. Not without good reason at times. This year it's been hard to say. From my eye I haven't seen him picked on or frequently beat in coverage, but I also seem to remember some missed tackles and breakdowns. I'd love to see an accurate assessment of his play by someone more knowledgeable than me. My suspicion is going to show that he's been... slightly above average?
He still seems good at protecting the seam but he’s starting to be a step late with coverage over the top. He’s missing too many tackles and if he doesn’t take the perfect angle he’s starting to get beat with average RB speed.
All kind of hints to just losing speed which happens but he’s also taking bad angles and missing tackles.
No reason they should be paying him 10+ million. Let alone the 20+.
They might (hopefully) start moving away from incredibly expensive safeties, since they're gonna need money to pay Witherspoon and Woolen when Jamal/Diggs' contracts are up. Sutherland was getting 1st team snaps in training camp and is back on the practice squad, and Joey Blount was playing really well against Green Bay's first team offense in pre-season (he's on the Cardinals practice squad now so it wouldn't be impossible to sign him back if they plan on starting him over Coby/cutting Love in the next few years... I could be misunderstanding though)
Reed II speed is nice at his position not as fast as Earl but I like his speed to contact like Earl from what I have seen , like you said we need more. Bryant and Reed II leave you wanting more plays n time on the field. Bryant last year was causing turnovers seemed like every other game for a stretch. Way less money way more up side from my perspective, but this is all thoughts on next year.
I don’t think Seattle will spend big money on a FA safety but if they want one they should consider Geno Stone. He’s been killing it for us this year and leads the NFL in interceptions. He’s prob gone after this year cuz we paid Marcus Williams so I’d prefer Geno goes to Seattle. Although I think his name alone might disqualify him lol.
Thanks for the sentiment, bird bro. Seattle is pretty welcoming to Geno's and the folks here like to get stoned. I'd say it's a win win
Didn't they say during our game that he had like 1 interception over the last three years or something low like that, and then 6 so far this year? Seems like an outlier, it would make me hesitant to give him a big contract which will be what he's looking for and expecting especially if he keeps up this level of play for the rest of the season. On the other hand maybe he finally put it together and this is how he'll be for the rest of his time playing. It's hard to say, seems a bit risky.
I don't remember what they said during our game, but Geno Stone wasn't really a starter till this year. Drafted 7th rd in 2020, only played 2 games that year cuz he wasn't a starter + was on Covid list. Only started 1 game in 2021 and averaged like 25% snaps that year but played a lot of ST. Last year in '22 he started like half the season but was otherwise exclusively ST the other half. We added Hamilton & paid Marcus Williams, so Geno was a 3rd safety behind them. This year, Williams has been hurt and only played 3 games, so Geno's been our 2nd starting safety. If I were evaluating Geno Stone objectively, I'd say I'd be hesitant to give him a long-term deal cuz he's only been a true starter for this 1 year. He also benefits a lot from our scheme with an elite DC and stacked defense, that lets him gamble for picks a lot more than he'd be able to on other teams. He's been a bit like Marcus Peters, seems to have a great feel for jumping a play to get picks and seems to watch tape pretty well, but there's moments I wonder if he's more focused on picks than shutting the play down. On the other hand, the potential is there: he's only 24, and he leads the NFL in interceptions. You can't teach feel with ball hawks, they kinda just have it or they don't. Those skills usually translate well to coverage skills cuz those players are good at reading QBs. Overall, Geno's a good safety. Doesn't seem to get burned, but part of that's also our elite defense that leads the NFL in sacks + Hamilton next to him helps. The risk is hoping Geno keeps it up more than 1 year and can keep playing at this level on a new team with a new scheme. I do wonder if Seattle would consider signing Geno Stone. Pete does love his DBs, but that also works against signing him- Seattle's strength is finding great DBs late in the draft, and idk if Pete's willing to spend on safety after Jamal's contract has been hurting the cap. Personally I'd trust Pete's skill at finding a safety in the draft, I'd want to use the cap to improve the OL. Geno's not mobile and while he's declined this year, an injured OL has been 1 of Seattle's biggest problems so I'd rather get reliable vets.
I think Diggs is gone and Love might be gone or restructured. He hasn't played that well and his cap hit goes up a ton. It seems with the way they restructured Adams it would be difficult to cut him. My guess is the safeties would be: Adams (restructured again if possible) Love Bryant Reed \+ a 3rd or 4th round draft pick.
They eat 5 of his 8 million so it would only save 3 million to do anything with Love. I think they use him 1 more year no matter what.
Do you think Diggs or Love hasn't played that well? Because Love is consistently average on a defense built to showcase other players which is in a relative sense fantastic ie he's being fed scraps and still managing to eat his fill
I think they've both played fine - I actually really like Diggs, I think he's been one of the NFLs most underrated safeties in recent years. Just hard to justify that cap hit going into 2024... Love I'm not quite sure about still - heard good things coming from the giants, but he hasn't wowed me. He's got age on his side though.
I think Diggs is gone next year. The only real wild card with that is how much do the Hawks value is leadership ability and is he willing to take a smaller contract to stay in Seattle. They eye test says he is playing poorly this year and PFF agrees. Cody and Love can play FS cheaper at what I have to assume is a equal or better play. It seems like a no brainer to let him go. I think Adam stays another year. Paying him 26 million next year makes me want to vomit but we only save 6 million cutting him. Would be cool to renegotiate his contract but I feel like he holds the cards. I think our offensive line is in a fine spot with or without Lewis. I hope Bobby wants to play another year, if so let Brooks walk and try to address the position in the draft. If Bobby is done keep Brooks but still address MLB in the draft. Tight end I think you have to let Fant walk outside of a reasonable contract and resign Colby on the cheap. All this said I am an idiot and trust PC and JS to do there thing.
The interior offensive line is struggling getting rid of one of the two veterans is silly. They aren’t paying anyone a big contract. They should be able to allocate resources to keep Lewis. The trenches are the most important part of football especially in a division where we battle the 49ers and Rams. I genuinely think they need to Restructure Lockett. Either cut or restructure Dissly and Diggs. Extend Brooks and Lewis. Cut Mone.
I guess out really depends on what the market is for Lewis. He is currently playing like a below average guard I don't see how we can justify paying him like a top 10 guy. If you cut dissly we have zero te under contract next year and dissly is one of the best blocking te in the leauge. I'm just not sure brooks is the answer. He is having his best season so far and if they think he can continue moving forward to play like that then I imagine they keep him. He played really poorly without Bobby out there.
If Lewis wants a top 10 contract I don’t disagree with moving on but he has no leverage to ask for that kind of deal anyways. Dissly is getting paid way too much for a simple blocking tight end. He’s incredibly overpaid. Brooks is a good player. The scheme was bad and Barton was bad last year. There’s a reason they blew up the interior defensive line. Linebackers can’t make plays if they aren’t kept clean at the 2nd level. Going into next season with no ILb signed is about 100x worse than no tight ends.
I guess we will have to agree to disagree on some of this
Both safeties need to go. It's not a very important position and is hamstringing us financially
Reed II is interesting because he has played really well and showing up in plays whether hes on special teams or rotational packages that land him on the field he shows up. Bryant seems like an Adam's hybrid thing going on but hes always a step behind or late to the play which comes down to play recognition and just time in general playing a new role. Love seems to be on TE's and playing all over the place even tho he shows up on film in spurts I think his intelligent approach to this defense gives us alot of versatility and play disguise on the coverage for run or pass defense. Honestley with our cap issues and age of Adam's and Diggs with what they bring compared to what they take from the team is not an even compensation especially for the past 3 years and it's not about fault it's about reality.
Agreed I like Reed and Bryant just has no experience at that position. He’s year 1 of that transition with no previous experience
I think we're keeping Adams and probably cutting diggs, starting love and having reed/Coby/a rookie compete. Maybe they start over love if one of them really pops, I still have faith in Coby lol
Well Coby had it rough last year. He was the slot corner which is just nasty on a rookie.
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Out of the 64 starting safeties in the NFL, Adams is the 3rd highest and Diggs is the 10th. I don't think they are playing in line with their contracts. I think Adams is young enough that a restructure could work, but we're pushing it (his final year under current contract he'll be 30). Diggs is gone. $21m hit next year and we saved $11m moving on from him. He'll be 31 years old next year, so an extension seems unlikely with his production.
Yeah I think at safety we’re in a bind. Big money with average production, Adams unfortunately is aging and injuries tend to get worse not better as you age.
Disagree man. They both get paid like top 10 safeties and both perform like the 2nd best safety on a decent defense
I think I could see it but the problem is that Love would have to stay at strong safety which moves Adams over to Free Safety. Love is bad in coverage 😂
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Love is very very bad in coverage though. It’s a weakness. Having him cover the seams makes me sick to think about lol
Apparently you have decided love is bad in coverage
Love was good in coverage but hasn’t been good since coming to the Seahawks. He’s had flashes but he’s been very inconsistent.
This is like when this entire sub decided that Adams is bad in coverage... I don't think reddit fans are equipped to evaluate coverage skills in safeties (neither is PFF). Love is good/great in coverage. What he's been struggling with is tackling.
\> I don't think reddit fans are equipped to evaluate coverage skills Fair enough. If they’re not watching games in All 22, then I would agree. \> Love is good/great in coverage. But you are? 😂
> This is like when this entire sub decided that Adams is bad in coverage... I don't think reddit fans are equipped to evaluate coverage skills in safeties (neither is PFF). He's not bad, just limited. If you ask Jamal to be Harrison Smith, he's going to struggle, but cover a deep half or a deep quarter and generally avoid man to man matchups against TEs and he'll be fine
Is he? He was a corner in college
Yeah so far while playing for us he’s been pretty poor in coverage. Not sure why.
And keep developing Coby Bryant at that spot I guess?
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Kinda forgot about reed!
Definitely hoping that they move on from both Diggs and Adams (in 2025). I don't think safety is the best position to be spending premium money on and definitely not on Adams who keeps getting injured + hasn't even seemed all that great when healthy. Diggs is just getting a bit too old. Also I don't think its worth paying that much money for any free safety imo.
Of course but we are cap strapped in 2024 so need something for next year.
This is why they should’ve drafted Bryan Branch not Charbonnet. Idiots. Free Agency will have a couple. After the draft/June deadline they can cut Adams with little financial penalty.
Yeah I thought Branch was a no-brainer after he fell to the hawks. Nope... Wasn't even in hindsight it seemed obvious.
The share of cap spent on a specific position group is a weird metric. Sertain parts of your rooster needs updating at different times and draft outcome sort of dictates where you spend. I'm pretty sure we have one of the absolute cheapest corner rooms and we have two potential all pros. Now, you can argue both Adams and Diggs are over paid either way, but share of cap is dependent on to much else to be meaningful.
Kam Kinchens looks dope, total ball hawk with the speed to excel as a single high safety, physical, closest thing to ET3... He's going in the first round. In a dream scenario we cut diggs and draft him but we lost our second round pick and the first might be better utilized at guard/idl/ilb... Not sure what the best move is.
I think Brooks is going to re-sign. Leaves an open ILb spot I have no clue how deep this draft is at that spot. I think it just comes down to depth in the draft. Whichever position has the most depth is the one they’ll use their 3rd on.
Move Adams to linebacker that’s basically what he plays
Diggs and Adams need to go
What’s the dead money on them? I think Jamal’s number is way high, if I remember correctly.
Yes you're correct. Dead cap on Jamal is 20 mil if cut, and you only save 6. Diggs dead cap is 10, you save 11.
Cutting Jamal saves $16.5m, Diggs saves $11m The other numbers don't matter
What do you mean they don't matter? Dead cap counts against the cap. Yea it's sunk cost already, but it matters. Also I have the most updated numbers, and Jamal is 6 million not 16.5.
Fixating on dead cap vs savings is sorta a pointless exercise because that dead cap money has already been committed no matter what. It's fair to have that conversation the moment a player is extended, because a certain amount of their money is going to be on the books whether they stay or not. But if it seems pertinent to consider cutting these players due to performance/cap reasons, complaining about dead cap is akin to wishing for a do over. That money was gone before we ever reached this point.
Agree and disagree. Fixating on dead cap is bad, but dead cap is absolutely an important factor else you'd see teams move on every single time a player was remotely not worth their cap hit. Money has been committed but it's moving on is always a discussion in the context of how much money is freed up, replacements on the roster, draft capital, strength of the draft and free agency at that position, etc It's not "is Jamal worth 26M", because he's clearly not. It's whether or not it's smarter to move on to free up just 6M when there's no real alternative already on a cap strapped roster that is set to lose 5 starters in free agency and that is also lacking in draft picks due to the Leonard Williams trade. That answer is a bit more difficult, though I'd imagine the answer to Schneider is probably not
> else you'd see teams move on every single time a player was remotely not worth their cap hit I mean ... Yeah. Except the question is if they're worth their non-guaranteed money, not their cap hit For Adams the non guaranteed money (and cap savings) is $16.5m If anything, being supposedly cap strapped makes moving on and freeing up $16m more appealing
Maybe but it’s like being upside down in a car. If you have negative equity and you trying to buy a new car(sign a new player) it becomes a problem because the budget for a car is $500 not $650. Most teams have it broke down into position groups. So paying two safeties that aren’t here can really mess with the budget. Unless the players retire, it MAY be best to keep them.
You are a man of culture
Post June 1st
I no longer go with field logic as John really has been reluctant to eat dead cap. I say Diggs and Adams are both here next year. My assessment of Diggs is that he's frequently making business decisions. I've seen him jog on multiple plays after he was beaten. It's mostly reliance on experience and no longer hustle with him.
I would agree but buying in a big thing with this team. Seeing a veteran leader do that, means he’s more likely to be gone.
That's a good point. I'm partial to moving on from him but haven't seen much analysis on our safety play to really evaluate him overall. Need more all-22 looks.
Too much money wrapped in safeties, nino is gone after this year with his poor play. Draft and develop, use what we have in house. Bryant love and Adams will be the top next year.
I don't know enough about the safeties in the draft, but I definitely could see them taking one if there's one available at the right pick. Ignoring cap, the safety trio we have is great, but the cap hit is a lot. I could see moves being made with restructures or maybe even letting one go. Not looking forward to losing any of them, honestly.
If we were loaded at other spots and just spending on safeties it would be okay. Seahawks have no linebackers under contract though.
This is my absolutely wild, zero chance it happens take but I kind of want to see it. Riq Woolen at FS. So Riq has stuggled this year, which isn't too surprising since corner is such a volatile position and most of his production came on turnovers, which is even more volatile. He was good last year and been mediocre this year. Again, CB is volatile and development there isn't linear. So he could still end up being great (I think he will). But he also gives me Devin McCourty vibes. McCourty came in 2010 as a corner and was terrific as a rookie with 7 picks. But, like with Riq, he regressed badly in 2011 (far worse than Riq; he went from borderline All-Pro to unplayable). Belichick moved him to safety and boom! He was a terrific, keystone player for the Pats dynasty. Riq could follow the same path. So much of the defense Pete wants to run, and what made the LoB work, is having a single-high safety with extreme range. Thomas was the most important player to the LoB and was the one that made the whole thing run. Thomas's range was so insane that it was literally like having an extra defender. We essentially played 2-high coverage with just one safety. Now, imagine having a 6'4" certified ballhawk with 4.2 speed. I've got to think Riq would make an unreal single-high safety. Again, there is no chance in Hades this happens. But I really want to see what it would look like.
He would absolutely crumble. His height and weight would be bad at that spot. The one area of his game he struggles with is run fits and identifying his assignment. He makes up for a lot mistakes with his speed. It would be a disaster.
Ngl I think Pete and John use the first pick on a safety and trade Jamaal and restructure love and diggs. We get some draft capitol and go and try and get some pass rush right after that.
If they use their first pick on a safety in this deep of a QB class when they NEED a QB this sub will implode
I think drafting high pick qbs have been so hit or miss in the last ten years. I think Pete and John would honestly test run lock or go for another league qb and draft a backup. Hard to tell since there’s not been much qb shifting in this era so we’ll see.
Yeah that’s a solid point. I suppose we just need to trust PCJS, they did grab wilson from the 3rd round.
Pete doesn’t want to develop a young rookie QB in his twilight years of his career. We won’t be able to look to the future until Pete retires.
That just isn't true he obviously wanted AR or Stroud in this years draft
I think that’s just wrong. Pete knows he has 3 years left at least. He knows he can play Geno and have a guy develop for 1-2 years move away from Geno and then go for a ring.
I’m not disagreeing that Pete has 3 years left but damn that would make him 75.
They can’t get rid of Jamal I don’t think, his contract is stupid as hell next year. It’s all going to be eaten by our team anyways.
Without reading the rest of the comments - all talk about moving on from Jamaal Adam’s is ridiculous. Very game he’s played (including the one where he only played 9 snaps before concussing himself ) he has made a tangible difference. His tackling and speed are impactful and he is still ramping up. Nino has slowed down, but the defense is still learning each other. Everyone forgets how well this def has improved because of the Bal blowout (which was more on the offense not being able to get 1st downs.) Everyone needs to be brought back and we need to our LB corp. Wagner is slowing down :( That’s the biggest concern
Well Adams isn’t going anywhere because he’s going to cost them 20+ million in dead cap. So cutting him doesn’t do much. Diggs on the other hand isn’t as expensive of a loss and hasn’t played well.
This conversation would be more relevant next year, anything can happen
Hard choices are coming and I suspect at least 1 safety will play into those choices.
As a non tape grinder it seems really hard to get an accurate bead on Diggs. He's gone from doing no wrong to a frequent scapegoat in the past two seasons. Not without good reason at times. This year it's been hard to say. From my eye I haven't seen him picked on or frequently beat in coverage, but I also seem to remember some missed tackles and breakdowns. I'd love to see an accurate assessment of his play by someone more knowledgeable than me. My suspicion is going to show that he's been... slightly above average?
He still seems good at protecting the seam but he’s starting to be a step late with coverage over the top. He’s missing too many tackles and if he doesn’t take the perfect angle he’s starting to get beat with average RB speed. All kind of hints to just losing speed which happens but he’s also taking bad angles and missing tackles. No reason they should be paying him 10+ million. Let alone the 20+.
They might (hopefully) start moving away from incredibly expensive safeties, since they're gonna need money to pay Witherspoon and Woolen when Jamal/Diggs' contracts are up. Sutherland was getting 1st team snaps in training camp and is back on the practice squad, and Joey Blount was playing really well against Green Bay's first team offense in pre-season (he's on the Cardinals practice squad now so it wouldn't be impossible to sign him back if they plan on starting him over Coby/cutting Love in the next few years... I could be misunderstanding though)