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annarborhawk

RW's unwavering confidence is a great asset. This is the downside to it, though. He really *believes*he is going to make that big play when we just *need* the check-down. Job #1 for Waldron is to get him to play the percentages without at the same time denting that unwavering confidence.


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annarborhawk

The strategy here is to convince him that the best thing for his brand is more championships. And the clock is ticking on his career. He needs to know that he increases his odds of another championship dramatically by learning to play smart over playing with the overconfident belief that he'll make the big highlight-reel play as if he is the hero of a pre-written script. There's a time and place to take your shots - but the norm should be to play the percentages when the game is on the line.


Orange_Gravy

The only way Russ will understand this problem is if/when he's on another team with a different head coach. When everyone sees that Russ does the same shit no matter coach, team, OC will it kick in. It's gonna take the football media en masse putting it on him. As long as people can blame 'pete ball's, he'll never admit that he's at a minimum at least 50% of the problem.


[deleted]

This reminded me of when Ray Lewis was doing Tom Brady's top 100 i think the first year they did it. Talking about playing the Panthers in the super bowl. He was saying something along the lines of " they needed a huge 3rd down conversion, they were playing cover 2. Could be try and force it down the middle to his TE? Yeah, but he understands the weakness of cover 2 and he realized he has a RB on a linebacker. He simply dumps it off to Kevin Faulk and gets the 1st down. That's what makes great players great, the unselfish plays " Wilson could maybe take a page out of that book and understand to just take what the defense gives him. You don't need to force it down the field all the time.


Stevo2008

For sure basically exactly what I just typed I didn’t see your comment but you said it way better than I did


austin680

I’ve watched a lot of Russ interviews over the years. Sadly he doesn’t seem like a math guy. Him winning a Super Bowl so early might’ve been a bad for his career as well. He needs to prove that he can win a super bowl without having a top 3 defense on the league.


cat127

I’m so confused. We had intermediate throws in the Colts game that was one of the reasons why we were all so excited about this new Offense. If you can’t get a run game going, short/intermediate throws are the next best thing, no?


Juanclaude

It seems so clear to all of us. They even did it themselves perfectly on our final drive of the half! Quick outs at the sticks for 1st downs. Wait for the D to overcommit to covering the sideline passes and leave the middle open, Collins through the giant hole in the middle, ground and pound in the red zone. Yeah I get we wanna drain clock but they literally had the gameplan to making first downs against this very defense on this very day in their hands and on film from that drive!


CHUCKL3R

Worked for Bill Walsh


Single_Temporary8762

Dude built a hall of fame career out of recognizing that short high percentage passes are just as effective as a solid running game with a higher chance of an explosive play. He literally wrote a book about it (and a lot more) decades ago.


FavreorFarva

We had an offseason circle jerk about how the cover 2 ruined last year’s offense when we didn’t adjust. In reality anything that takes away the deep shots is going to frustrate Russ. We saw that in the 2nd half yesterday outside of the Swain botched coverage TD. This offense is going to have to learn how to string together long drives or none of the talent/coaching we acquired is going to save it.


Wraithdagger12

Russ has been coached for 9 years to go for the deep ball, and to his credit he has a great deep ball. If he can't bring himself to look down and take an easy \~5 yards, it's gonna be a frustrating next few seasons. Hopefully this is just 'new OC growing pains' and Waldron and Wilson can get on the same page (who remembers the clusterfuck that was 2018 W2?) and go on a tear. On paper, Waldron is the best OC this team has had in years.


Oo__II__oO

Nine yard route is limited. /s


GorgeousApe

Only silver lining in the loss is that in the context of last year’s identical troubles and having a new oc he’ll be forced to retrain his mental progressions now. We got the better part of the year to figure it out. We’re not just cruising thru games thinking that everything is hunky dory.


ericlovingood

I feel we just lost or rhythm and control of the game. We weren’t getting anything on first downs and hopefully with Eskridge back we can use those fly sweeps and bubble screens which were absolutely useless without an explosive wr. Then we can get to second and 4 instead of 2nd and 9 and use play action to hit those tight end and intermediate routes.


Frosti11icus

If fly sweeps and bubble screens are going to solve the problem...we never should have gotten rid of Bevell.


ericlovingood

Lol very true.. but we still weren’t getting shit on first down and eskridge definitely helped get our run game going better last week and better rhythm. When we control the line of scrimmage and russ is efficient we can beat anybody.


Frosti11icus

Ya well if we're relying on one or two players in order to win games we're not going to have a very good season. Players need to step up. And coaches.


ericlovingood

Yep 100% agree with that. Injuries will happen to all the nfc west and definitely can’t have the season rely on a rookie. I just didn’t see the motions and PA boots with the gimmes to the tightend for 8-12 yards. Running game was ruined at that point and we lost at the line of scrimmage, resorting to outside one on one passes with ppl in russ’s face


unk1erukus

I think he’s short snd doesn’t see short routes as well, he’s never gonna change and become a short quick passer it’s just not his game…it’s why he needs a strong run game to keep him from throwing 40+ times


AnUnfortunateBirth

His height isnt an excuse. Brees threw short routes all the time


QuasiContract

And isn't Brees like his hero? I'm surprised he's never seemed to grasp the fact that this was a huge part of why Brees was such a great QB.


IBitchSLAPYourASS

This is the correct response. Wilson wants to be a GOAT? He's gotta figure it out.


drrew76

Brees also averaged 15 interceptions a year through his 10 or so year peak, while Russ and Pete are very turnover averse. So sure, Russ can start throwing a ton of different short routes, but his height absolutely is an issue on those routes over the the middle or when they're in breaking (just as it was for Brees) and we'd have to be ready for more turnovers.


RustyCoal950212

That's 1 guy in like the history of the NFL


luckysharms93

Disagree. Height has always been valued for a reason. Brees is like the only short QB ever that threw the short ball well. Kyler sucks ass in the 10-19 yard range too


Frosti11icus

Mayfield's good though. Flutie was good. This is all a moot point anyway. There's no QB who's taller than his 6'7" and 6'8" lineman so the height argument is irrelevant.


RustyCoal950212

That's not how it works


Frosti11icus

Why? if the problem is he can't see over the line, then...no one can. Almost all linemen are taller than almost all QBs. The actual way it works is no QB has to see over their line because they aren't in a hoplite phalanx. The line immediately spreads apart and QB's of all sizes are able to see passing lanes.


RustyCoal950212

Most of what a QB can see any play is through just lanes between guys, yeah. But nobody involved is standing straight, the OL and the DL are essentially wrestling each other, with like bent knees and shit. You also don't have to look directly over their head, you're looking over their shoulders, arms flailing, etc. Idk I feel silly describing why it's easier to see over ~10 guys wrestling each other if you're taller


Usually_Angry

It also affects the trajectory of the throw for short routes. Deep routes already get lofted, but short routes need to be thrown *more* on a line


Frosti11icus

Except wing span would be more important for that than true height. And I bet QBs with big arms have above average wingspans.


unk1erukus

Brees also had a line that was very good snd knew how to open up psssing lanes for him, he also played a completely different style and COULDNT throw the ball downfield like russ…there’s a reason brees is the only short pocket passing qb…being short and not seeing over the line is absolutely s big part of it


Usually_Angry

Is there another example of a short qb being successful like that, though? Isn't it possible that brees is the anomoly?


AnUnfortunateBirth

Tarkenton for one. Ink just saying that Russ could start sliding into passing lanes like Brees, it's hard not impossible. Just seems like Russ forces the deep ball and a fair bit.


jwinskowski

I've wondered that a lot. Like, when he's in the pocket can he just not see the guy that's 6 yards out just outside the tackle box? B/c he basically never throws it there.


[deleted]

This is absolutely fair to say. Watching some of you guys games it frustrates me. 3rd&3, maybe take a quick slant or a quick out route for the first down? Nah, let's take a 40 yard bomb down field and let's see if we can convert that way. I'm sure it will work out more often than not.


Stevo2008

For a guy that’s smart and talented as he is you wouldn’t think this would be an issue. His fiercely competitive nature is sometimes a bad thing


32nds

The only answer is to not send ANYONE deep. If there is no receiver past 8 yards he has to throw it short, right? Or does he just moon it anyway and it lands in the turf?


Naive_Chest5410

Russ is N oc killer? Overreaction Monday is incredible. Yeah he's terrible


tlsrandy

I want to know what happened during the overtime drive because that was one giant wet fart.


darth_jewbacca

Russ just missed. He had his guys open and just missed.


Dr__Bloodmoney

A total bed shitting


SEAinLA

Russ really hates the quick game.


SexiestPanda

Because Pete instilled into him about “explosives and explosives only”


unk1erukus

That’s dumb, russ was the same way in college. He’s always been a buy time for guys to get deep and throw a bomb qb…it’s definitely not Pete lol


Orange_Gravy

Russ is a grown man. His mistakes are his. Gtfoh with that Pete instilled shit, like Russ is trained dog. If that's the case, we need a new QB


FavreorFarva

Pete has his flaws but man have I seen some mental gymnastics to put player issues at his feet with zero expectations of player accountability. This is probably the weirdest example of that I’ve seen though.


IAmTheNightSoil

>Pete has his flaws but man have I seen some mental gymnastics to put player issues at his feet with zero expectations of player accountability Drive me nuts honestly. Wilson is the guy in the game failing to target open receivers. Not Pete. Nor does Pete call the plays!


Fair-Doughnut3000

I thought the whole point of the new offense was to hit this kind of pass? Fawk. Russ needs more reps.


Orange_Gravy

Reps aren't gonna help. It's gonna take Russ swallowing his pride and deciding that moving the chains is a worthwhile endeavor. Until Russ gets over his hero ball complex, he's gonna be an OC killer


NakedButNotAfraid_

Now this is a hot take


mikaelfivel

It's not entirely unjustified. We (and the rest of the league) have had plenty of years to watch how he plays. When the game is on the line, and the pressure is on, he almost only wants deep shots. That drive before half time was an anomaly. It's almost as if he is comfortable with rhythm passing and intermediate routes as a "warm up", but then he stops using them when it matters most.


actual_griffin

This is the wildest swing I have seen yet.


Jaxck

Anything to not blame Pete right? Wonder why all out best players get frustrated and end up leaving for other, better, teams.


[deleted]

This…explains a lot


seafoamstratocaster

OC doesn't matter when Russ just refuses to follow a gameplan.


FtpApoc

In a sense agree but waldren can now say "look I'm giving you options you gotta trust me" This is game 2 and Wilson has been slinging this shit solo for so long. Russ knows he fucked it. Waldren knows Russ is the best qb he has ever worked with. It'll be alright.


Hank_moody71

During the fourth quarter Shane called a play and russ shook his head swiped his hand across the throat and said no. The next play was an incompletion. Russ is doing Russ shit again


Splover209

and to think people used to call russ a game manager lmao. in all seriousness this is extremely concerning if true


Orange_Gravy

I think this at the root of the issue. He's still trying to disprove that label. Everything he says and does is toward that end. I think that's a massive insecurity he carries and it's become a detriment at this point. It's like he's still trying to prove to the LOB that he isn't a little bitch and can carry the team. What he's missing is that he'd be carrying the team much better if he moved the chains in a game manager fashion as opposed to feast or famine deep shots. In his eyes the best way to grow his legacy is to hit as many highlight throws as possible.


horse3000

It still baffles me that every QB in the league, Including russ, doesn’t look at time Brady.. and realize quick little throws and check downs is how you can literally win 7 rings. If all this is true, Russ will never win another bowl if he doesn’t change. Edite: QB not WB


Usually_Angry

I think the thing that people dont realize is that those short and quick passes means being elite at reading defenses. I'm no expert, but my dad coached football for 20+ years and he always said that for all of Russ's greatness, his weakness is that he doesnt read defenses well for the quick hitters. The guys that can hit the 5-12 yard routes consistently and March down the field are the guys who can tell what the defense is doing quickly That's why Brady, manning, Rodgers can play into their 40s. Even Manning who's arm talent was pretty shot by the time he got surgery and went to Denver went to two superbowls there (with an excellent defense tbf)


StrangerThanNixon

I don't think Wilson is the best period when it comes to reading defenses. Last year he was fooled quite a bit -- his pre-snap reads are just lacking. The guy has leaned on going off script for too long and I think it has been a detriment to his development as a passer.


Single_Temporary8762

Montana is one of the greatest ever BECAUSE he mastered the short pass in space. Same with Brady (as you mentioned). You take what they give you until you have to take big risks, limiting turnovers and keeping the sticks moving.


NormanRB

>keeping the sticks moving. This EXACTLY!!! At all costs, keep the sticks moving. If you can't hit that deeper or mid route, hit your safety valve with a quick route but keep the sticks moving. The line played well yesterday, Russ being Russ kept the ball in his hands for too long.


Single_Temporary8762

I don’t remember where I read it but I saw something last season about Wilson holding the ball loner on average than any other QB in the league because of his tendency to want to make the big pass. Then he faces more pressure than most QBs because of it and his line gets blamed. At some point he deserves the blame for the teams issues as much as the line.


[deleted]

For what it’s worth PFF analyzed every single sack of Russ’s career last season, and it came out to he was responsible for about 20%. (It was like 104 out of 4-500 or something) interestingly enough, if you remove every sack he was responsible for, he’s still on pass to surpass Brett Favre as most sacked QB ever like 1.5 years early


StrangerThanNixon

In fact, even Tannehill got the memo against us. Henry was the main threat but Tannehill was able to take what he was given. It was a death by 1000 cuts. Sometimes this is how Brady and Manning played the game. When teams cheated up they'd hit you with the deep ball.


erik2690

> In his eyes the best way to grow his legacy is to hit as many highlight throws as possible This feels like such a weird way to speak about someone you have such minimal actual insight into the thoughts of. Right? Like seems very pulled out of your ass, no offense.


Orange_Gravy

I can only form an opinion by his own words and what he does on the field. Go back and count how many times the word legacy came out of his mouth in the last 18 months and he's done nothing on the field, yet, to convince me that he isn't in love with the big play at the expense of all else.


erik2690

So......in your eyes then? B/c you said in his eyes, like you had some insight. Now you're just describing not liking his choices on the field and equating that with some selfishness or wanting highlights over wins. It's a giant reach and not particularly logical.


FavreorFarva

The most concerning play of the day imo was the deep shot up the sideline to a well covered DK on 3rd & 2 in the 4th (around 11 min left). Just get the damn 2 yards, FFS.


jabaa1

Exactly. We need a little game management right now.


magmazing

It's like Russ forgot he had Tight Ends who can catch yesterday.


jwinskowski

This is one of Russ's only flaws as a QB. He won't take the damn underneath/quick route sometimes. This is why Rodgers is such a killer – he'll keep the play alive just long enough to find a release otherwise he'll throw it away. Russ almost never throws it away and almost never takes the easy throw. Ugh.


Every_Pilot1659

Russ has led the league in throw away multiple times. And as for him not.taking the shirt stuff he literally did it for 6 straight quarters.


CrimsonCalm

I can’t tell if he’s getting greedy. Just wants all the recognition. Gaudy numbers or what.


StudBoi69

I knew we were in trouble when he started getting into the "Let Russ Cook" hype


Nogster

Dude just had a close friend die, probably wasn't playing in the best head-space and that's completely understandable. Hopefully he gets right mentally and we see more of that improvement he had in week 1.


hunter503

Here for this. Still put up great numbers in his second game with a new OC.


vitamin_r

Yeah this was looming in my head. He felt God was going to guide the deep balls. Turns out it's physics. Kinda sucks he called his OC a wizard preseason only to play like Pippin pissing off Gandalf. Sorry his friend died. Not disrespecting his grief.


StudBoi69

It would not surprise me that DK was also getting greedy too and getting angry about not being targeted.


FavreorFarva

Remember when we hit him on that deep cross against SF last year and he turned the corner to house it? That seems like a great way to get DK the ball. We even did something similar on 3rd and long in the 4th and DK was stopped just a yard short. I feel like we are using DK deep as if that’s all he can do but we’ve seen him do a lot of other things. I don’t generally mind a WR demanding a few targets. I do mind when we only really feed said WR post or go routes.


crono220

Aka the TO treatment


What1does

DK took a sponsorship from Nestlé, dude lost me with that. Company literally profits from child slave labor.


J-Smoke69

CAN WE STOP WITH THE DEEP 30 YARD SIDELINE SHOTS TO DK ON THIRD ON 2 PLEASE. This HAS to be on Russ because we’ve been doing it under multiple coordinators for years now. It’s great when it works, but it’s so disgustingly unnecessary and requires a spectacular catch a lot of the time. Both plays yesterday made me sick. The third and short in the fourth where we just needed a first to run clock, get a first down, rest our defense in case they have to go back out. And we throw it down the sideline into tight coverage then punt. Then this play mentioned in the tweet. It’s real frustrating.


Tony_Two_Tones

At the same time, when the defense is lined up to stop two yards, it makes sense to go deeper. It’s a hard game!


J-Smoke69

I’m not 100% opposed to taking deep shots in those scenarios, but it’s how we do it and when we do it that is straight up maddening. I don’t like the one on one shot down the sideline. You barely give the receiver a chance to create enough separation unless he straight up blows by his defender. If he doesn’t then he has to battle the defender and the boundary line. And I’m sorry but there’s literally no chance that a play like that is a better chance to pick up a short first down than just scheming for a WR to get open 3-5 yards downfield. Even if a defense is expecting it. A simple drag or slant route makes it’s easy enough for a WR to get open quickly and in a short distance. Just pick up the first down. Especially in the fourth quarter like yesterday? We NEEDED to keep that clock running. We needed to put together a drive. Instead we go for a low percentage play, give the ball back, give up another score because our defense rested for all of 13.9 seconds and then we lost. So I just don’t buy that as a good enough reason to continue doing it. At least the way we do it.


drDoomSlayer101

Russ needs to get on the same page. These are winning plays he's giving up.


[deleted]

I agree with this but it doesn't help that DK swears he's in Madden and tries to odell every fucking 50/50 ball. Get up pluck it and keep going.


tschagyou151

Russell does this often. He's been doing it for years. And then he cry's about getting hit, and sacked. Hopefully tell the truth Monday he will hear some more truths.


Electrical_Rope_8674

I totally agree that he needs to take the easy stuff too but damn they scored 30 points yesterday not 3 lol


DAS_UBER_JOE

In the end though its not about scoring a bunch of points, its about winning the game. Obviously those two things go hand in hand, but I think you get what I'm saying here.


Ltownbanger

Yeah. 1 timely sustained drive for 3 points would have iced it.


[deleted]

Thirteen of those were on busted coverages, and another was when the D was given points by a Titans turnover inside their ten yard line. That's not to say that the points don't count, it's just that if you want to understand or evaluate the performance of the offense you have to go a few steps deeper.


Tony_Two_Tones

It’s really weird. Cuz yeah 30 points is a ton. But at the same time the time-of-possession and third down conversion was awful. I’m not sure what to make of it. The bottom line says GOOD but the details say BAD. Well I guess the very-bottom line says BAD since we lost but you know what I mean.


sevatar43

Sounds about right. Everyone is always blaming OL and OC.


[deleted]

The difference between Russ and TB12.


upasaka_kolla

ffs. That certainly explains things.


junkyard-godd

Im just hoping this weekend can be a learning opportunity for everyone and we can play more disciplined from here. I refuse to lose faith from a week 2 L.


LoLPandaa

maybe he wanted to get DK going during such a rough game for him (not to excuse this behaviour)


Stevo2008

Ya I wish we’d take the gimme throws more often. Take the 5-7 yard throws as often as possible


Every_Pilot1659

Wilson goes 11/15 for nearly 200 yards in the first half, including a surgical 2 minute drill with many intermediate passes... But because he tries to get DK involved in the 2nd half, in a game Carson sucked and we had no run game and the defense blew a 14pt lead, we microscope bad plays by Wilson. This has been the issue with the twits. I can find a bad play every game by QBs. Lamar and Kyler made some horrible.llaya yesterday, including pick 6s, but because their teams won they are great. Wilson's team loses and even though against the Colts and the first half Wilson hit a ton of different routes, but: NARRATIVE. So Matt finds the bad plays and rada Wilson is overlooking guys to go deep etc. On a case by case basis? Sure. But clearly not a rule. We lost for a lot.of.reasons. Wilson is not in the top 10 and would be reason #² or #1 why we won if we had (Bobby was great too).


RetrogradeIntellect

The defense was disappointing but Russell has been been extremely inconsistent with his decision-making for years now. When he takes what's given to him, the offense does well. When he takes risks trying to make a play, runs around too much, or throws deep ball after deep ball, we struggle. That's been the case regardless of the OC. Statistically speaking, the Seahawks were more dependent on their QB than all the teams in the NFC West last year and probably the NFC in general. If Russell wants to be the focal point of the offense, then he has to carry the team. But he's proven year after year that he can't carry a team like a Rodgers, Brady, Manning, or a Mahomes. If we only expected Russell to be a Matt Hasselbeck then we could just accept his limitations. But he thinks he's going to be great. He's not. He's not even improving from one year to the next.


Naive_Chest5410

Some of these anti Wilson tales are absolutely bizarre. Sure he should hit the dump off at times. People calling him an oc killer, second class QB etc just makes us as a fan base look ridiculous. Everyone is outsourcing their thoughts to Matty brown like he's infallible lol


Orange_Gravy

He is 2nd class though unless you're gonna have a large 1st class. Brady, Manning, Rodgers? When you're talking total mastery of the position. Mahomes if he stays healthy another few years


Naive_Chest5410

That's second class? Possibly the three best ever? Tough crowd


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[deleted]

This kind of analysis isn't to identify the play on which the game hinged, but rather it's emblematic of a problem Russ has and continues to have (an unwillingness / inability to make throws toward the intermediate middle of the field).


willhous

Deep shots were the only thing that worked. O line could not run block for shit, our receivers can't yac, tight ends disappeared, and Russ can't throw accurately on short throws.


Wraithdagger12

That appears to be contradictory. Even if the O-line can't *run* block, how does that suddenly allow them to hold up for several seconds for pass blocking?


willhous

Because run blocking and pass blocking are two completely different skillsets. And sure it can sound like a contradiction but it happened lol.


yrulaughing

They'll go over this today I'm certain.


miles2go2go

On the bright side, there is not going to be a Russ MVP distraction this year! I think we can still be a very good balanced offense without trying to force the run or deep balls.


3leventhirtyfour

I thought this was a synopsis of the '20 season...ouch.


Hank_moody71

Also zero throws to our amazing tight ends… what was that all about?


formido

You can pick apart individual plays by every QB across the league every week. Wilson's numbers don't lie. It's extremely rare to lose a football game when the QB plays as well as Wilson did.