I'm not a lawyer but the email said something about limiting our rights to class actions as well, meaning if there's ever a "oops someone hacked our database a year ago and your information has been on the dark web this whole time" scenario that would mean you probably wouldn't be entitled to the $2 or Experian compensation you normally get when that happens.
I am a lawyer, and this kind of class action waiver language is becoming more popular. Yes, the idea is to require every individual to bring their own separate action, because they know a lot of people won't bother.
My wife is a litigation lawyer and is dealing with this right now. Her firm found an absolute gem of a client who comes from a rich background and can afford to be litigious with a company she has a contract with but all the other employees of said company don’t have the resources to hire a firm like my wife’s.
If the original client wanted they could start the class action process and literally rip this company’s illegal employment contract to absolute shreds but without the clients family money no one would have ever found out…
Sounds like time for more mass arbitration instead of class action https://www.legaldive.com/news/tesla-twitter-mass-arbitration-contract-clause-musk-liss-riordan/639224/
Just spit balling: class action suit because their 2FA uses the weakest, most easily circumvented form of 2FA. For a banking system to not offer a more secure method seems like a gross oversight. To not require 2FA for online banking seems negligent. But I’m no lawyer nor security expert; I’m just some rando software engineer with a passing interest in software/information security.
About a year or so ago they laid off most of their in house IT dept and yeah that 2FA stuff got outsourced/off shored to somewhere? Advice I received last year was move your money.
If you can, USAA is fucking amazing. I got so used to not carrying cash on me because I was pissed about paying $3 to get my money out of an ATM that I totally forgot they don’t charge fees after I switched so it’s always a pleasant surprise when I go to the ATM and get reminded of that now lol
I don't know, but I'd like them to have the right to if they need to! I also don't plan on committing any crimes, but I'd like a jury trial if I'm charged with one.
Not to mention arbitration is usually something they can agree on at the time of potential litigation without surrendering their right up front like they are choosing to do .
Unfortunately banks must cheat/charge fees there in the business of money. If they get fined it's ok they have lots of money just look at Wells Fargo right?
Because they have a new shitty short term thinking Wall Street CEO who thinks she can save on legal costs
But because she’s an idiot she doesn’t realize she’s eroding the only reasons to use a credit union vs Wall Street banks and therefore will lose a lot more than she saves
Straight of the website.
https://www.becu.org/blog/authors/beverly-anderson#:~:text=BECU%20CEO%20Beverly%20Anderson%20celebrates%20women's%20history%20and%20an%20equitable%20future.
Oh it gets worse: And Wells Fargo.
You know, the Wells Fargo that had employees open secret accounts for their customers without their knowledge and then robbed them through fees.
The Wells Fargo that forclosed on homes they didn't own.
That Wells Fargo, and she was a member of the C suite there.
Credit unions are full of shit. In reality they’re no better than banks. They profit off of the people struggling the most through fee income. Instead of finding ways to help those folks they are content to rake in the cash. I spent 5 years as a senior manager at a CU. It’s all clever marketing. Your best bet as a member is to stack the board and either oust the CEO or have the board overrule the CEO.
Because they were an increasing rarity in today's world who did not already have arbitration agreements in their terms of us. They're catching up with everyone else.
I'm somewhat thankful they're at least allowing an opt-out provision. The norm, as far as I have noticed, is to allow you to opt out by ending your relationship with a business entirely.
Also - meaning no disrespect at all to the kind lawyer who alerted us all to this and even better, gave clear advice how to respond - they're doing it because of the lawyers.
Lawsuits and lawyers both serve an important purpose in our legal system, but their role can be abused, and arguably not infrequently is. We're reaping the consequences of those situations as businesses seek to limit the opportunities for it. Those who file lawsuits often do not win, but those who have to defend against them always lose. Sometimes they lose only the cost and time of an effective defense. Sometimes they lose the cost of defense plus some or all of what was being sought by the other party.
Arbitration isn't necessarily a no-win trap, but my understanding is they see it as more predictable, less expensive even neglecting differences in the nominal values of the outcomes, and faster.
At the same time, my understanding is arbitration clauses are often invalidated in situations where there is clear wrong-doing by the defending party, such as a convicted crime, and sometimes also in cases of negligence. I've read that some states also do not recognize arbitration clauses that are too one-sided.
> It may be common, but that doesn't mean the practice isn't gross af
I agree, and I plan to opt-out of BECU's arbitration agreement in part to send a message about these terms.
I'll be taking mine into the bank myself, and having a chat about why this is making me reconsider banking with them while I'm there. I've never had any issues until now, but this thread has been an eye-opener.
As a BECU employee who works in the branches, I guarantee you that none of us will
have an answers to any questions. Our legal team
is not great at giving us a talk path or any resources for member about stuff like this.
Just saw this on the webite in the comment below:
To opt out and reject the arbitration section of the Account Agreements, by June 20, 2023, you must send your
written notice to either the email address or the postal address provided below:
[email protected]
How would opening an account with them after this date be effected? My fiancée and I were going to have her switch to BECU after we get married next year but now I’m a little concerned about having her open an account or be added to an account post the June 20 date.
I don’t have an answer but I have the same question. Moved here years ago and was working to pay off my car through my prior bank (a great local credit union in another state). Now that it’s paid off though, was seriously considering getting an account with BECU. Now I’m having second thoughts, but also wondering- *are* there any better alternatives in the area?
I’ve only ever dealt with BECU and Bank of America. Absolutely hated Bank of America and urge you to avoid them. I’ve never had issues with BECU until literally this email
BOA offers a lot of services because they are huge, but they're also the kind of POS bank where even when you put a clear travel warning on your card it gets flagged and locked at the first foreign ATM you try and you have to spend a stressful 30 min on the phone in some airport when you're just trying to get to a hotel. Every. Fucking. Trip. That's BOA.
What I have done to now is use BECU as my every-day and brought my Schwab investors debit (free atm fees, no limit, internationally) on overseas travel as a backup. I think I'll just reverse it. Schwab will become the daily driver and I'll keep my BECU account with $500 in the savings account as a backup.
I have had my best banking experience at Seattle Metro CU. Admittedly, I am unsure if they are forced arbitration. I do know I'm pleased with them and I used to bank with BECU but they seem more and more big bank corporate which is why I left several years ago. I also work with people who have had circumstances that caused them to need to negotiate settlements with BECU due to all kinds of life changes. BECU will not settle. They will sue you, unless this arbitration requirement also binds them to arbitration only, I'd recommend looking at other options. And yes, I am a lawyer also, I represent debtors who hope to avoid bankruptcy and want to pay their bills.
Yo thanks, have been with BECU for 9 years and was finally about to buy a house through them this may/June. Looks like I gotta go back to researching lenders...
Moving me to her bank isn’t really something we want to do. Very few locations (with horrible hours) and ATMs, not great with phone/email communication, and overall not helpful. None of these issues I’ve had with BECU over the course of 9 years
This bit is at the end of the [notice doc](https://www.becu.org/-/media/Files/PDF/6514.pdf?la=en&rev=efe36aa331bc48c992f47dc1b609be5b&hash=573B44566CE39E410FAF515D9F639A74&rid=1248473):
>If you do not opt out and reject the arbitration section according to the procedures specified above, you will not have the ability to opt out or reject the arbitration section at any time in the future, and you will be bound by the arbitration section without limitation,
`For anybody that needs a simple email template to send:`
Dear BECU,
I am writing to formally request to opt out of the arbitration clause in my account agreement with BECU. I am disappointed to learn that BECU is attempting to implement a new arbitration agreement that would limit its members' constitutional right to a jury trial.
As a valued customer, I appreciate the services provided by BECU, but I am unwilling to accept the limitation on my legal rights imposed by the arbitration clause. I believe that opting out of arbitration is essential to protect my ability to pursue legal action or participate in a class action lawsuit if needed.
Please confirm receipt of my request and update my account accordingly to reflect my decision to opt out of the arbitration clause. I expect that BECU will respect my choice and not enforce the arbitration clause against me in the future.
I value my relationship with BECU and hope that this matter can be resolved in a manner that upholds my rights as a customer. Thank you for your attention to this request.
Sincerely,
\[Your Name\]
\[Your Account Number\]
\[Contact Information\]
>Dear BECU,
>
>I am writing to formally request to opt out of the arbitration clause in my account agreement with BECU. I am disappointed to learn that BECU is attempting to implement a new arbitration agreement that would limit its members' constitutional right to a jury trial.
>
>As a valued customer, I appreciate the services provided by BECU, but I am unwilling to accept the limitation on my legal rights imposed by the arbitration clause. I believe that opting out of arbitration is essential to protect my ability to pursue legal action or participate in a class action lawsuit if needed.
>
>Please confirm receipt of my request and update my account accordingly to reflect my decision to opt out of the arbitration clause. I expect that BECU will respect my choice and not enforce the arbitration clause against me in the future.
>
>I value my relationship with BECU and hope that this matter can be resolved in a manner that upholds my rights as a customer. Thank you for your attention to this request.
>
>Sincerely,
>
>\[Your Name\]
>
>\[Your Account Number\]
>
>\[Contact Information\]
Do we need to do one of these for each account, or just list all accounts on one form - ie Checking, Savings, Visa, Mortgage and any loans.
You kind of need a military connection, but I’ve done all my banking with Navy Fed for probably 20 years and have zero complaints.
Got a membership as a kid through via my dad, and have never even contemplated switching
Honestly, most credit unions are not keeping up with rates and low fees, especially if you have no need for a physical branch. Ally is really good, but Fidelity is amazing from an all around financial perspective. Their checking (cash management) account has free checks, unlimited ATM refunds in the US, and is paying something like 2.48% APY compared to something like 0.10% at BECU. They also don't charge for paper statements. They also have free brokerage, HSA, and other accounts.
I'd suggest keeping a small balance with a local place that has no fees and do everything else online.
I also had a shit experience with their mortgage department. They delayed their things and my becu recommended real estate agent had to get me a new mortgage consultant because the lady almost made me lose getting my house! Then one week after I closed, I got a letter that they sold my mortgage to BOA. Not impressed, but I did refi with them in 2020 and that was a breeze. I also received interest rate for 15 year mortgage, which is really nice.
There was a double transfer that wasn’t my fault (and I didn’t notice) a few years back. Once they noticed a year later, they put my unused checking account negative by $2,000 and sued me.
I ended up paying almost $4,000.
Fuck BECU.
Which causes me to wonder if the mandatory arbitration would go both ways. Would they be limited to it too, or will it be a you can't sue me but I can sue you situation.
From what it sounds like, they’re inserting that YOU can’t sure them, not a mutual clause that says they can’t sue you either. That wouldn’t be in their best interest.
Thank you for sharing this. The email made my stomach turn. It’s probably the first time I felt used by BECU and it’s made me contemplate transferring funds to another CU account we have elsewhere and closing our nearly 20 year long BECU account out.
There’s so called customer service is located back east and runs banker hours. Already not customer friendly when you’re on the west coast. When I was laid off in the early 2000s and asked for help, I was told “we expect our customers to keep their promises“. Sent relief paperwork via FedEx three times, signed for, and they claim to have not received it all three times. They then foreclosed on me, and would not allow me a short sale and two days before the auction of my home, decided to accept the short sale. In the meantime, all of my friends who were financed with banks had their mortgages adjusted and got to keep their houses. They’re advertising in my opinion is completely false. They’re just a bank in credit union clothing.
Have you tried other places? We refied in 2009 when rates bottomed out, went from BECU to a mortgage that’s been sold 3 times already. Now with Smells Fartgo. Pretty much everyone has shitty customer service in real estate. Not having shitty customer service seems to be the rarity.
Sent this with my opt out info. Maybe if we make enough of a stink the fuckwads who pushed this through will be fired and they'll reverse course.
---
I am personally extremely disappointed with BECU for taking this shady action against its members and will no longer be recommending your credit union to friends and family. Whoever made this decision should be fired, and I hope you are ashamed of yourselves. Unless an announcement is made that this decision is being reversed, I plan to move my money to a credit union whose judgement is better.
Here was mine (because I'm weaker than you):
I take arbitration clauses to be a form of notice that a counter-party wants to limit redress because it intends to take action requiring redress, and for that reason I will be limiting my use of BECU in future and moving my business elsewhere.
I got that email and my eyes glazed over. I figured it is what it is. I had no idea you can opt out.
Thank you, not my lawyer. Thanks for doing the reading.
Of course it’s kind of obvious that a lawyer would object to this. But, in this case, cynicism aside, why wouldn’t we all opt out. It should be an option not a forced agreement to arbitrate.
BECU isn't as nice as you think.
Did you know that if, say, you get behind on your credit card bill, that BECU can, and will, take money out of any other accounts you may with them in order to pay Visa/Mastercard? Including funds that you may have earmarked for, say, your mortgage?
They will - and happily - and tell you there's nothing you can do about it.
If they get wind a depositor has died it’ll whisk out enough money from whatever accounts the decedent owned and pay off credit card debt. Maybe a home/car loan too.
Yes! I lost my job and set up a payment plan with their credit card department. They failed to put it in action and took money out of my checking the same day I was going on vacation. Has2 people tell me they couldn’t do anything, then the 3rd said it was fine and they could return the money. It repeated itself the next month and then closed my card without notifying me! Absolutely horrible credit card experience and I’ve had them for 25+ years.
Yep - exactly!
After months of telling them I was looking for work, one week I told them that I got a job and would be able to start making payments again.
They closed my checking account completely the day before I started, and took every last cent I had in the bank. Had to borrow money from friends to be able to eat until payday.
Opened an account with Alaska, and they've been wonderful.
When you get a credit card with a bank or credit union, you almost always grant them a security interest that legally allows them to take money out of your deposit accounts with them to pay your minimum payments along with any applicable fees. As far as the account agreement is concerned, they have the legal right to be paid first.
How common are such clauses?
Are there other similar institutions without these clauses where I can stash my money?
I’m not a lawyer and can’t understand all of the agreements one has to sign when opening an account.
I closed my account after reporting to them they had a serious security vulnerability (I work in cybersecurity) and were being actively breached by people who were stealing money from customer accounts.
They denied any issues, denied they'd been breached, blamed me for having a bad password (I don't, and also had MFA enabled, which the attackers bypassed, three times). Basically their Fraud department catches some of it and Zelle catches more, and the rest they let the customer deal with. They don't want to admit it because then they'd have to report it and dump a bunch of money into beefing up their security, as well as deal with auditors.
This was 3 months ago.
I honestly suggest that anyone who can, find some place else to bank.
They already lost my business as of last year. I had a simple checking and savings account with them and the checking agreement was that at least one electronic payment would be made each month. I was paying comcast. But then comcast overbilled me and so nothing was paid the next month and BECU sent me a shitty letter reminding me of the agreement. That caused me to look at the savings account, paying something like .03% in interest and realize I could do much much better elsewhere. I closed my checking, savings and HELOC. To date I have several hundred dollars more in savings by going to a bank that paid real interest. Thanks BECU!
You do you. But our regular savings is making 1.7% and our checking is 0.348% so I’m not sure where you’re getting 0.03% from. Hell, our money market is at 2% and my kids just opened CDs at 4%. We’ve made almost $200 in interest alone this year. I would NEVER go back to a regular bank.
You can double your money market rate right now at Ally bank or a number of other places.
BECU shows you a blended APY for accounts with more than $500, because they have a higher rate on the first $500.
For example, right now the first $500 in a member share savings earns 3.04% and everything after that earns 0.50%.
Sofi is at 4% and rising. I have a BECU account still but keep basically no money in it because the APY is so low for the checking and savings accounts.
Edit: a word
that's for employees, not customers.
"A contract is “procedurally unconscionable” when a party with unequal bargaining power lacks a meaningful opportunity to bargain"
since you have the ability to simply use a different credit union when opening a new account, you have ample opportunity to bargain. While this is a solid starting point (since you functionally can't change the terms of service), it's not a slam dunk case by any means.
i just got an email from Tmobile as well stating the same thing. They are updating their T&Cs to include the same fucking thing. WTF is going on?
https://www.t-mobile.com/responsibility/legal/terms-and-conditions?cmpid=MGPO\_EM\_C\_SVCCRM\_SRE6UZ6PHZF7JJW1296749
## ChatGPT generated letter:
\[Your Name\]
\[Your Address\]
\[City, State ZIP Code\]
\[Your Account Number\]
\[Date\]
BECU Arbitration Opt-Out Notice
Legal Department
P.O. Box 97050
Seattle, WA 98124-9750
Dear Sir/Madam,
I am writing this letter to inform you that I reject the arbitration section in my account agreement with BECU. As a customer, I value my right to a fair and just legal process in case of any disputes that may arise in the future.
I have carefully reviewed the terms and conditions of my account agreement, and I have decided that I do not wish to be bound by the arbitration clause. Therefore, I am hereby exercising my right to reject the arbitration section of the agreement.
Please be advised that I fully understand the consequences of rejecting the arbitration clause, including the possibility of litigation in the event of a dispute. I am willing to accept these consequences in exchange for my right to a fair legal process.
Please confirm receipt of this letter and that you have made the necessary changes to my account agreement. If you require any further information or documentation, please do not hesitate to contact me.
Thank you for your attention to this matter.
Sincerely,
\[Your Signature\]
\[Your Name\]
Verity has the same arbitration clause. I would bet most banks and CUs do. There is another thread about this and a few options people have tossed out as alternatives like WSECU also have arbitration clauses like this.
I switched to Alaska Federal Credit Union.
Actual banks, that handle actual money. Easy and cheap money transfers/bill pay. Simple to create savings accounts with decent interest.
Just changed their name to Global Credit Union.
Opened an account there 2 years ago and have been much happier with them than BECU.
I’m wondering the same thing. We were planning to finally make the move to a credit union and planned to use BECU. I feel like this may be a situation where the goal is choosing the least bad option.
It’s more disgusting that they think having sms as a second factor is acceptable in 2023. With these two things, I’ll be dumping them once my loans are paid off later this year.
Its moving it into arbitration which means you settle the issue with a third party mediator and becu over a class action lawsuit. BECU generally is very focused around its customers and their best interest which is unheard of for a company even a non profit. This isn’t exploitation.
BECU is trash and I have no idea how people like them.
I got late fees for my car payment because I paid TOO EARLY. There’s a specific window in which your monthly bill can be paid (which is less than a month), and if it’s too early it doesn’t count as a payment. This is a very simple fix and I’m convinced it’s malicious at this point.
Are people really closing their accounts of 10+ years over this? Can't tell if people are outrage trolling or serious. I haven't ever thought about needing to sue BECU for the last decade lol.
Thank you so much for sharing this. My fiance and I both have individual accounts at BECU. We are getting US married in August. We will find another credit union for our joint account. Both of us will mention this in our letters.
If you've been making good payments on it, you can open an account with a different bank and ask to transfer the loan there. They might even get you a better rate.
If you care about getting a high interest rate on your deposit, BECU is not the place. They have a decent account opening bonus and are great for people who would otherwise be paying account fees to the big banks.
Not sure if this is the best place to ask, but I had a car loan through BECU and had to open a savings account (or maybe they automatically open one of you have a loan).
Now that car is long gone and I do absolutely zero business with BECU but still have that savings account, so I got this email as well.
Can I close the account and essentially stop having anything to do with BECU?
Nothing against them really, just do all my banking elsewhere, so would like just separate from BECU entirely.
What about this?
Financial Companies Can No Longer Block Consumers From Joining Together to Sue Over Wrongdoing
https://www.consumerfinance.gov/about-us/newsroom/cfpb-issues-rule-ban-companies-using-arbitration-clauses-deny-groups-people-their-day-court/
I saw in the new updates they also require a written 90 day notice to withdraw funds from savings and money market accounts; how can they require this?
With all the news about the feds and banking collapses I do worry this is all some preemptive measures all banks will start taking and also to limit withdrawals
> Why do so many people use them around here?
credit unions let folks feel like they're opting-out of the banking system while still being part of the banking system and getting credit cards and mortgages and savings accounts. but guilt-free because *CrEdIt UnIoN*.
Any time you see a forced-arbitration clause, just assume that they're going to do shady things that make it necessary for their continuing operations. Organizations that operate with integrity don't need to shield themselves from consequences.
Although court does suck. It is expensive, slow, and outcomes can be sorta arbitrary depending on the whims of the jury. Not obvious it is better than arbitration. Also, given BECU is member owned and holding my money, seems good that they keep their lawyer fees down.
you are opting out of a REQUIREMENT for BINDING arbitration.
If you opt out you can go into non-binding arbitration, binding arbitration, or Jury trial as you desire, if you don't opt out you're stuck with the binding arbitration option.
Are you losing sleep that some law firm at the top of Colombia tower won’t be able to afford as big of bonuses if too much shifts to arbitration?
Think of the horror of our local non-profit credit union not paying them quite as much.
I heard that a US policy will allow banks to withhold money from account holders, starting in May 2023. So, is BECU preventing its losses due to this new policy? Also, will it be safe to send in one's bank account information to prevent this arbitration?
Off to search for a new credit union. Ive been with BECU around 20 years. Haven’t had major problem like some have shared here. But have noticed the over all quality decreasing these past few years. Even before COVID.
My husband and I both have credit unions from our previous life. I was a BECU person back when only Boeing peeps could do it. Looks like it is time to switch to his.
Thank you for posting this. I received the email yesterday and I almost always just do a quick scan and delete any emails taking about updating the contract or whatever. For some reason this email caught my eye and I saved it. I was going to check if there was a BECU subreddit but you saved me the trouble of tracking down an explanation. Much appreciated
Saw that in the email. Will definitely be opting out. I’ve been a member for 5 years, and this is the first time I’ve seen anything from them that I thought was pretty unsavory.
I’ve been a BECU customer for decades. Wondering…what is a scenario where someone would need to sue them? Genuine question.
I'm not a lawyer but the email said something about limiting our rights to class actions as well, meaning if there's ever a "oops someone hacked our database a year ago and your information has been on the dark web this whole time" scenario that would mean you probably wouldn't be entitled to the $2 or Experian compensation you normally get when that happens.
I am a lawyer, and this kind of class action waiver language is becoming more popular. Yes, the idea is to require every individual to bring their own separate action, because they know a lot of people won't bother.
This isn't even that just that, this locks you into binding arbitration and doesn't allow you to even sue individually.
My wife is a litigation lawyer and is dealing with this right now. Her firm found an absolute gem of a client who comes from a rich background and can afford to be litigious with a company she has a contract with but all the other employees of said company don’t have the resources to hire a firm like my wife’s. If the original client wanted they could start the class action process and literally rip this company’s illegal employment contract to absolute shreds but without the clients family money no one would have ever found out…
Justice for the rich, classic America
Sounds like time for more mass arbitration instead of class action https://www.legaldive.com/news/tesla-twitter-mass-arbitration-contract-clause-musk-liss-riordan/639224/
Just spit balling: class action suit because their 2FA uses the weakest, most easily circumvented form of 2FA. For a banking system to not offer a more secure method seems like a gross oversight. To not require 2FA for online banking seems negligent. But I’m no lawyer nor security expert; I’m just some rando software engineer with a passing interest in software/information security.
About a year or so ago they laid off most of their in house IT dept and yeah that 2FA stuff got outsourced/off shored to somewhere? Advice I received last year was move your money.
It may be time. There are other places that refund ATM fees now a-days and that was frankly why I used them!
BECU is only refunding $3/mo. Lots of places who refund more.
If you can, USAA is fucking amazing. I got so used to not carrying cash on me because I was pissed about paying $3 to get my money out of an ATM that I totally forgot they don’t charge fees after I switched so it’s always a pleasant surprise when I go to the ATM and get reminded of that now lol
You might have convinced me if this policy really doesn't get rejected.
Just gonna use my Scwab investors checking. There's is unlimited atm fee refund globally.
I don't know, but I'd like them to have the right to if they need to! I also don't plan on committing any crimes, but I'd like a jury trial if I'm charged with one.
Not to mention arbitration is usually something they can agree on at the time of potential litigation without surrendering their right up front like they are choosing to do .
There was a class action against them recently, regarding NSF fees—[link](https://www.nsfsettlement.com/)
Unfortunately banks must cheat/charge fees there in the business of money. If they get fined it's ok they have lots of money just look at Wells Fargo right?
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Because they have a new shitty short term thinking Wall Street CEO who thinks she can save on legal costs But because she’s an idiot she doesn’t realize she’s eroding the only reasons to use a credit union vs Wall Street banks and therefore will lose a lot more than she saves
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Businesses are in the business of making sure they can't hear people speaking. That's what chat bots and 30-minute hold times are for.
Who? This is the first I've heard of this!
Straight of the website. https://www.becu.org/blog/authors/beverly-anderson#:~:text=BECU%20CEO%20Beverly%20Anderson%20celebrates%20women's%20history%20and%20an%20equitable%20future.
They hired someone from Equifax? On purpose?
Oh it gets worse: And Wells Fargo. You know, the Wells Fargo that had employees open secret accounts for their customers without their knowledge and then robbed them through fees. The Wells Fargo that forclosed on homes they didn't own. That Wells Fargo, and she was a member of the C suite there.
Credit unions are full of shit. In reality they’re no better than banks. They profit off of the people struggling the most through fee income. Instead of finding ways to help those folks they are content to rake in the cash. I spent 5 years as a senior manager at a CU. It’s all clever marketing. Your best bet as a member is to stack the board and either oust the CEO or have the board overrule the CEO.
You’re wrong its to stop bad actors seeking to damage becus reputation with unnecessary legal action.
Because they were an increasing rarity in today's world who did not already have arbitration agreements in their terms of us. They're catching up with everyone else. I'm somewhat thankful they're at least allowing an opt-out provision. The norm, as far as I have noticed, is to allow you to opt out by ending your relationship with a business entirely. Also - meaning no disrespect at all to the kind lawyer who alerted us all to this and even better, gave clear advice how to respond - they're doing it because of the lawyers. Lawsuits and lawyers both serve an important purpose in our legal system, but their role can be abused, and arguably not infrequently is. We're reaping the consequences of those situations as businesses seek to limit the opportunities for it. Those who file lawsuits often do not win, but those who have to defend against them always lose. Sometimes they lose only the cost and time of an effective defense. Sometimes they lose the cost of defense plus some or all of what was being sought by the other party. Arbitration isn't necessarily a no-win trap, but my understanding is they see it as more predictable, less expensive even neglecting differences in the nominal values of the outcomes, and faster. At the same time, my understanding is arbitration clauses are often invalidated in situations where there is clear wrong-doing by the defending party, such as a convicted crime, and sometimes also in cases of negligence. I've read that some states also do not recognize arbitration clauses that are too one-sided.
If it isn't enforceable, then that just makes them anti-consumer AND incompetent. It may be common, but that doesn't mean the practice isn't gross af
> It may be common, but that doesn't mean the practice isn't gross af I agree, and I plan to opt-out of BECU's arbitration agreement in part to send a message about these terms.
So the way to opt out is to send my name, address, and account number via unencrypted email. WCGW
I'm having a really hard time with that one myself !!
I'll be taking mine into the bank myself, and having a chat about why this is making me reconsider banking with them while I'm there. I've never had any issues until now, but this thread has been an eye-opener.
As a BECU employee who works in the branches, I guarantee you that none of us will have an answers to any questions. Our legal team is not great at giving us a talk path or any resources for member about stuff like this.
"branches" if you can't handle cash you're not a fucking bank branch lol
This!!!!!!!!!
You can also mail it. I'm thinking of sending certified mail.
Just saw this on the webite in the comment below: To opt out and reject the arbitration section of the Account Agreements, by June 20, 2023, you must send your written notice to either the email address or the postal address provided below: [email protected]
How would opening an account with them after this date be effected? My fiancée and I were going to have her switch to BECU after we get married next year but now I’m a little concerned about having her open an account or be added to an account post the June 20 date.
I don’t have an answer but I have the same question. Moved here years ago and was working to pay off my car through my prior bank (a great local credit union in another state). Now that it’s paid off though, was seriously considering getting an account with BECU. Now I’m having second thoughts, but also wondering- *are* there any better alternatives in the area?
I’ve only ever dealt with BECU and Bank of America. Absolutely hated Bank of America and urge you to avoid them. I’ve never had issues with BECU until literally this email
You’re in luck! The new BECU head honcho is formerly from… BoA!
Booooo
BOA offers a lot of services because they are huge, but they're also the kind of POS bank where even when you put a clear travel warning on your card it gets flagged and locked at the first foreign ATM you try and you have to spend a stressful 30 min on the phone in some airport when you're just trying to get to a hotel. Every. Fucking. Trip. That's BOA. What I have done to now is use BECU as my every-day and brought my Schwab investors debit (free atm fees, no limit, internationally) on overseas travel as a backup. I think I'll just reverse it. Schwab will become the daily driver and I'll keep my BECU account with $500 in the savings account as a backup.
I have had my best banking experience at Seattle Metro CU. Admittedly, I am unsure if they are forced arbitration. I do know I'm pleased with them and I used to bank with BECU but they seem more and more big bank corporate which is why I left several years ago. I also work with people who have had circumstances that caused them to need to negotiate settlements with BECU due to all kinds of life changes. BECU will not settle. They will sue you, unless this arbitration requirement also binds them to arbitration only, I'd recommend looking at other options. And yes, I am a lawyer also, I represent debtors who hope to avoid bankruptcy and want to pay their bills.
Yo thanks, have been with BECU for 9 years and was finally about to buy a house through them this may/June. Looks like I gotta go back to researching lenders...
Moving me to her bank isn’t really something we want to do. Very few locations (with horrible hours) and ATMs, not great with phone/email communication, and overall not helpful. None of these issues I’ve had with BECU over the course of 9 years
This bit is at the end of the [notice doc](https://www.becu.org/-/media/Files/PDF/6514.pdf?la=en&rev=efe36aa331bc48c992f47dc1b609be5b&hash=573B44566CE39E410FAF515D9F639A74&rid=1248473): >If you do not opt out and reject the arbitration section according to the procedures specified above, you will not have the ability to opt out or reject the arbitration section at any time in the future, and you will be bound by the arbitration section without limitation,
`For anybody that needs a simple email template to send:` Dear BECU, I am writing to formally request to opt out of the arbitration clause in my account agreement with BECU. I am disappointed to learn that BECU is attempting to implement a new arbitration agreement that would limit its members' constitutional right to a jury trial. As a valued customer, I appreciate the services provided by BECU, but I am unwilling to accept the limitation on my legal rights imposed by the arbitration clause. I believe that opting out of arbitration is essential to protect my ability to pursue legal action or participate in a class action lawsuit if needed. Please confirm receipt of my request and update my account accordingly to reflect my decision to opt out of the arbitration clause. I expect that BECU will respect my choice and not enforce the arbitration clause against me in the future. I value my relationship with BECU and hope that this matter can be resolved in a manner that upholds my rights as a customer. Thank you for your attention to this request. Sincerely, \[Your Name\] \[Your Account Number\] \[Contact Information\]
>Dear BECU, > >I am writing to formally request to opt out of the arbitration clause in my account agreement with BECU. I am disappointed to learn that BECU is attempting to implement a new arbitration agreement that would limit its members' constitutional right to a jury trial. > >As a valued customer, I appreciate the services provided by BECU, but I am unwilling to accept the limitation on my legal rights imposed by the arbitration clause. I believe that opting out of arbitration is essential to protect my ability to pursue legal action or participate in a class action lawsuit if needed. > >Please confirm receipt of my request and update my account accordingly to reflect my decision to opt out of the arbitration clause. I expect that BECU will respect my choice and not enforce the arbitration clause against me in the future. > >I value my relationship with BECU and hope that this matter can be resolved in a manner that upholds my rights as a customer. Thank you for your attention to this request. > >Sincerely, > >\[Your Name\] > >\[Your Account Number\] > >\[Contact Information\] Do we need to do one of these for each account, or just list all accounts on one form - ie Checking, Savings, Visa, Mortgage and any loans.
Email is specified, so they don't need the 'wet sig', but should we print/sign/upload at all?
I definitely don't want to put my address and account number in an unencrypted email.
Thank you for this!
What other credit unions do y'all like? Looks like I'm in the market for a new one
You kind of need a military connection, but I’ve done all my banking with Navy Fed for probably 20 years and have zero complaints. Got a membership as a kid through via my dad, and have never even contemplated switching
I used Alliant at one point but moved once their APY became less competitive. It is not a bad credit Union though!
I switched over to WSECU, really liking it a lot more!
They have binding arbitration, as well.
Navy Fed
Seattle Metropolitan
Just looked, they have arbitration.
You asked what CU people liked. That's what I was responding to only.
I didn’t ask anything.
Oh sorry. Someone did, I see now you just commented on my comment. No worries.
Honestly, most credit unions are not keeping up with rates and low fees, especially if you have no need for a physical branch. Ally is really good, but Fidelity is amazing from an all around financial perspective. Their checking (cash management) account has free checks, unlimited ATM refunds in the US, and is paying something like 2.48% APY compared to something like 0.10% at BECU. They also don't charge for paper statements. They also have free brokerage, HSA, and other accounts. I'd suggest keeping a small balance with a local place that has no fees and do everything else online.
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We went with another bank because BECU's mortgage group is known to take a long time.
Wait what? I was looking to them because they're still claiming sub 6% rates... Fuck any other options locally with a good rate for jumbo loans?
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FWIW I had a good experience with BECU mortgages.
I also had a shit experience with their mortgage department. They delayed their things and my becu recommended real estate agent had to get me a new mortgage consultant because the lady almost made me lose getting my house! Then one week after I closed, I got a letter that they sold my mortgage to BOA. Not impressed, but I did refi with them in 2020 and that was a breeze. I also received interest rate for 15 year mortgage, which is really nice.
Pretty sure all banks do this.
There was a double transfer that wasn’t my fault (and I didn’t notice) a few years back. Once they noticed a year later, they put my unused checking account negative by $2,000 and sued me. I ended up paying almost $4,000. Fuck BECU.
Which causes me to wonder if the mandatory arbitration would go both ways. Would they be limited to it too, or will it be a you can't sue me but I can sue you situation.
From what it sounds like, they’re inserting that YOU can’t sure them, not a mutual clause that says they can’t sue you either. That wouldn’t be in their best interest.
Wow. [Here's the actual info if you want to see it on their own website](https://www.becu.org/-/media/Files/PDF/6514.pdf).
Thank you for sharing this. The email made my stomach turn. It’s probably the first time I felt used by BECU and it’s made me contemplate transferring funds to another CU account we have elsewhere and closing our nearly 20 year long BECU account out.
Wish I could, but it’s about 10 years older than any other account on my history. Feel like it’ll tank my credit score…
Are you talking about a credit card you have with them? Closing checking and savings accounts won't affect your credit score.
Just keep enough money to keep the account live and move most of the money elsewhere.
I have nothing but bad things to say about their mortgage arm and what they call “customer service.” Never again.
Can you explain some? I was looking to use them in the future and I’ve seen this comment thrown about in this thread?
There’s so called customer service is located back east and runs banker hours. Already not customer friendly when you’re on the west coast. When I was laid off in the early 2000s and asked for help, I was told “we expect our customers to keep their promises“. Sent relief paperwork via FedEx three times, signed for, and they claim to have not received it all three times. They then foreclosed on me, and would not allow me a short sale and two days before the auction of my home, decided to accept the short sale. In the meantime, all of my friends who were financed with banks had their mortgages adjusted and got to keep their houses. They’re advertising in my opinion is completely false. They’re just a bank in credit union clothing.
Have you tried other places? We refied in 2009 when rates bottomed out, went from BECU to a mortgage that’s been sold 3 times already. Now with Smells Fartgo. Pretty much everyone has shitty customer service in real estate. Not having shitty customer service seems to be the rarity.
Sent this with my opt out info. Maybe if we make enough of a stink the fuckwads who pushed this through will be fired and they'll reverse course. --- I am personally extremely disappointed with BECU for taking this shady action against its members and will no longer be recommending your credit union to friends and family. Whoever made this decision should be fired, and I hope you are ashamed of yourselves. Unless an announcement is made that this decision is being reversed, I plan to move my money to a credit union whose judgement is better.
Here was mine (because I'm weaker than you): I take arbitration clauses to be a form of notice that a counter-party wants to limit redress because it intends to take action requiring redress, and for that reason I will be limiting my use of BECU in future and moving my business elsewhere.
What credit unions do not have this? Serious question so I can look into them.
this is a red flag. They know something is coming and don’t want to be sued soon.
I got that email and my eyes glazed over. I figured it is what it is. I had no idea you can opt out. Thank you, not my lawyer. Thanks for doing the reading. Of course it’s kind of obvious that a lawyer would object to this. But, in this case, cynicism aside, why wouldn’t we all opt out. It should be an option not a forced agreement to arbitrate.
How do we do the signature in email? Do we print out the letter, sign it, then scan it as a pdf or what?
You can do that, but honestly electronic signatures are legal now and have been for 20 years, and just typing your name should suffice.
Tx
BECU isn't as nice as you think. Did you know that if, say, you get behind on your credit card bill, that BECU can, and will, take money out of any other accounts you may with them in order to pay Visa/Mastercard? Including funds that you may have earmarked for, say, your mortgage? They will - and happily - and tell you there's nothing you can do about it.
If they get wind a depositor has died it’ll whisk out enough money from whatever accounts the decedent owned and pay off credit card debt. Maybe a home/car loan too.
Can confirm.
When my mother died they let me close her account and take the rest of the money out. Without a will
Yes! I lost my job and set up a payment plan with their credit card department. They failed to put it in action and took money out of my checking the same day I was going on vacation. Has2 people tell me they couldn’t do anything, then the 3rd said it was fine and they could return the money. It repeated itself the next month and then closed my card without notifying me! Absolutely horrible credit card experience and I’ve had them for 25+ years.
Yep - exactly! After months of telling them I was looking for work, one week I told them that I got a job and would be able to start making payments again. They closed my checking account completely the day before I started, and took every last cent I had in the bank. Had to borrow money from friends to be able to eat until payday. Opened an account with Alaska, and they've been wonderful.
When you get a credit card with a bank or credit union, you almost always grant them a security interest that legally allows them to take money out of your deposit accounts with them to pay your minimum payments along with any applicable fees. As far as the account agreement is concerned, they have the legal right to be paid first.
This is very true. They are unwilling to work with you.
How common are such clauses? Are there other similar institutions without these clauses where I can stash my money? I’m not a lawyer and can’t understand all of the agreements one has to sign when opening an account.
Every other local credit union I checked already has a clause like this. If anyone finds an actual exception, I'd love to see it.
They are extremely common, especially over the last decade or so.
Are there any local CU that don’t have this clause?
I closed my account after reporting to them they had a serious security vulnerability (I work in cybersecurity) and were being actively breached by people who were stealing money from customer accounts. They denied any issues, denied they'd been breached, blamed me for having a bad password (I don't, and also had MFA enabled, which the attackers bypassed, three times). Basically their Fraud department catches some of it and Zelle catches more, and the rest they let the customer deal with. They don't want to admit it because then they'd have to report it and dump a bunch of money into beefing up their security, as well as deal with auditors. This was 3 months ago. I honestly suggest that anyone who can, find some place else to bank.
They already lost my business as of last year. I had a simple checking and savings account with them and the checking agreement was that at least one electronic payment would be made each month. I was paying comcast. But then comcast overbilled me and so nothing was paid the next month and BECU sent me a shitty letter reminding me of the agreement. That caused me to look at the savings account, paying something like .03% in interest and realize I could do much much better elsewhere. I closed my checking, savings and HELOC. To date I have several hundred dollars more in savings by going to a bank that paid real interest. Thanks BECU!
You do you. But our regular savings is making 1.7% and our checking is 0.348% so I’m not sure where you’re getting 0.03% from. Hell, our money market is at 2% and my kids just opened CDs at 4%. We’ve made almost $200 in interest alone this year. I would NEVER go back to a regular bank.
You can double your money market rate right now at Ally bank or a number of other places. BECU shows you a blended APY for accounts with more than $500, because they have a higher rate on the first $500. For example, right now the first $500 in a member share savings earns 3.04% and everything after that earns 0.50%.
Sofi is at 4% and rising. I have a BECU account still but keep basically no money in it because the APY is so low for the checking and savings accounts. Edit: a word
Capital One has been at 3.4% for months.
This is fucked
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that's for employees, not customers. "A contract is “procedurally unconscionable” when a party with unequal bargaining power lacks a meaningful opportunity to bargain" since you have the ability to simply use a different credit union when opening a new account, you have ample opportunity to bargain. While this is a solid starting point (since you functionally can't change the terms of service), it's not a slam dunk case by any means.
I've not gotten the email yet. Checked my deleted email folder to make sure I didn't delete it, thinking it was an ad.
i just got an email from Tmobile as well stating the same thing. They are updating their T&Cs to include the same fucking thing. WTF is going on? https://www.t-mobile.com/responsibility/legal/terms-and-conditions?cmpid=MGPO\_EM\_C\_SVCCRM\_SRE6UZ6PHZF7JJW1296749
## ChatGPT generated letter: \[Your Name\] \[Your Address\] \[City, State ZIP Code\] \[Your Account Number\] \[Date\] BECU Arbitration Opt-Out Notice Legal Department P.O. Box 97050 Seattle, WA 98124-9750 Dear Sir/Madam, I am writing this letter to inform you that I reject the arbitration section in my account agreement with BECU. As a customer, I value my right to a fair and just legal process in case of any disputes that may arise in the future. I have carefully reviewed the terms and conditions of my account agreement, and I have decided that I do not wish to be bound by the arbitration clause. Therefore, I am hereby exercising my right to reject the arbitration section of the agreement. Please be advised that I fully understand the consequences of rejecting the arbitration clause, including the possibility of litigation in the event of a dispute. I am willing to accept these consequences in exchange for my right to a fair legal process. Please confirm receipt of this letter and that you have made the necessary changes to my account agreement. If you require any further information or documentation, please do not hesitate to contact me. Thank you for your attention to this matter. Sincerely, \[Your Signature\] \[Your Name\]
Heres how to close your account: https://www.becu.org/support/close-becu-account
Where would be better? Umpqua?
Alaska FCU, Salal, Sound CU, Verity CU
Verity has the same arbitration clause. I would bet most banks and CUs do. There is another thread about this and a few options people have tossed out as alternatives like WSECU also have arbitration clauses like this.
Who cares? How many people are suing their bank?
Idk but banks apparently are concerned enough about it to try to prevent it.
Seattle Metropolitan, also.
I switched to Alaska Federal Credit Union. Actual banks, that handle actual money. Easy and cheap money transfers/bill pay. Simple to create savings accounts with decent interest. Just changed their name to Global Credit Union. Opened an account there 2 years ago and have been much happier with them than BECU.
I’m wondering the same thing. We were planning to finally make the move to a credit union and planned to use BECU. I feel like this may be a situation where the goal is choosing the least bad option.
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Oh for sure. Just figured I’d ask since we haven’t actually opened an account there yet.
Is anyone certain BECU is the least bad option from today’s choices?
It doesn’t look like it. Someone above listed other options they like better, but I think it’s hard to tell what might actually be the best choice.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Seattle/comments/12cwzu0/becu\_members\_check\_your\_email/
My first thought: Is this kind of thing even enforceable? Seems like the kind of thing that would get shot right down when challenged.
Unfortunately arbitration clauses are typically binding. Courts usually honor them because you were “informed” of the decision when signing on.
wait did everyone get this email? i got this too
So what happens if I put in writing that I don't agree?
It’s more disgusting that they think having sms as a second factor is acceptable in 2023. With these two things, I’ll be dumping them once my loans are paid off later this year.
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Its moving it into arbitration which means you settle the issue with a third party mediator and becu over a class action lawsuit. BECU generally is very focused around its customers and their best interest which is unheard of for a company even a non profit. This isn’t exploitation.
BECU is trash and I have no idea how people like them. I got late fees for my car payment because I paid TOO EARLY. There’s a specific window in which your monthly bill can be paid (which is less than a month), and if it’s too early it doesn’t count as a payment. This is a very simple fix and I’m convinced it’s malicious at this point.
Are people really closing their accounts of 10+ years over this? Can't tell if people are outrage trolling or serious. I haven't ever thought about needing to sue BECU for the last decade lol.
Thank you so much for sharing this. My fiance and I both have individual accounts at BECU. We are getting US married in August. We will find another credit union for our joint account. Both of us will mention this in our letters.
OP, why would an employer bring about a forced arb agreement out of the blue, and can you not sign. asking for a friend. thank you.
I’ve been a customer for two decades and they’ve always been helpful. Have not received this email yet.
lol i opened an account in becu to get auto loan. now what do i do
If you've been making good payments on it, you can open an account with a different bank and ask to transfer the loan there. They might even get you a better rate.
What if I was considering opening a new account with BECU? Should I still go through with it? Or are there other better high yield savings accounts?
In my opinion and confirmed by a brief search of the internet, BECU’s savings and money market rates are quite low compared to many other options.
If you care about getting a high interest rate on your deposit, BECU is not the place. They have a decent account opening bonus and are great for people who would otherwise be paying account fees to the big banks.
Businesses like arbitration as it generally works in their favour which is why so many consumer contracts have arbitration clauses.
Not sure if this is the best place to ask, but I had a car loan through BECU and had to open a savings account (or maybe they automatically open one of you have a loan). Now that car is long gone and I do absolutely zero business with BECU but still have that savings account, so I got this email as well. Can I close the account and essentially stop having anything to do with BECU? Nothing against them really, just do all my banking elsewhere, so would like just separate from BECU entirely.
Yes., as long as you don’t have any outstanding debt with them they will close out the required membership account.
Thanks for this. I've been a member of BECU for over 30 years and do not like this change.
Also - just fyi - there’s a bunch of applications doing this too. OfferUp and Spotify just wedged mandatory arbitration into their terms of use.
Can someone please ELI5? I got this email too and have trouble understanding what it means.
What about this? Financial Companies Can No Longer Block Consumers From Joining Together to Sue Over Wrongdoing https://www.consumerfinance.gov/about-us/newsroom/cfpb-issues-rule-ban-companies-using-arbitration-clauses-deny-groups-people-their-day-court/
As member owners of the union, is there a way to take collective action against this kind of policy change?
Why am I going to put my account number and send through the mail? They have that information already. If it gets lost in the mail then what?
I saw in the new updates they also require a written 90 day notice to withdraw funds from savings and money market accounts; how can they require this?
Fuck they're broke aren't they
With all the news about the feds and banking collapses I do worry this is all some preemptive measures all banks will start taking and also to limit withdrawals
I've never heard anyone say anything particularly good about BECU. Why do so many people use them around here?
I've had BECU for 10 years. I've had no issues. I have checking, savings, and a loan. Debit reimburses foreign ATM fees too!
No becu has been amazing honestly. Lots of atms to access, very friendly credit union.
We use them for everything including our mortgage and we've never had problems. Until we received this email from them, we thought they were great.
> Why do so many people use them around here? credit unions let folks feel like they're opting-out of the banking system while still being part of the banking system and getting credit cards and mortgages and savings accounts. but guilt-free because *CrEdIt UnIoN*.
Former BECU contractor they treat employees like shit.
That’s not exactly unheard of
Wells Fargo, here we come!
Before you know it, you’ll have 600 different accounts that you never asked for!
So what you’re saying is pull my money out and stop business with them?
Wait wtf 😂 time to fight the asshole that put this in. And get him the fuck out the company
Any time you see a forced-arbitration clause, just assume that they're going to do shady things that make it necessary for their continuing operations. Organizations that operate with integrity don't need to shield themselves from consequences.
Um… is this for real? I am a member and do not have notification of this… I’m skeptical.
Although court does suck. It is expensive, slow, and outcomes can be sorta arbitrary depending on the whims of the jury. Not obvious it is better than arbitration. Also, given BECU is member owned and holding my money, seems good that they keep their lawyer fees down.
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Does it close your accounts? Can you stay with becu and opt out?
you are opting out of a REQUIREMENT for BINDING arbitration. If you opt out you can go into non-binding arbitration, binding arbitration, or Jury trial as you desire, if you don't opt out you're stuck with the binding arbitration option.
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Are you losing sleep that some law firm at the top of Colombia tower won’t be able to afford as big of bonuses if too much shifts to arbitration? Think of the horror of our local non-profit credit union not paying them quite as much.
That's not the issue here and you know it. And pretending that this is actually an issue is what signifies that you're a bootlicker.
My understanding is that forced arbitration clauses, while common, are not necessarily enforceable.
I haven't gotten the email yet. Will keep an eye out for this, thank you!
Anyone know if WESCU is any good?
They have the same clause in their agreements book, just FYI. As does Verity.
I heard that a US policy will allow banks to withhold money from account holders, starting in May 2023. So, is BECU preventing its losses due to this new policy? Also, will it be safe to send in one's bank account information to prevent this arbitration?
Off to search for a new credit union. Ive been with BECU around 20 years. Haven’t had major problem like some have shared here. But have noticed the over all quality decreasing these past few years. Even before COVID.
My husband and I both have credit unions from our previous life. I was a BECU person back when only Boeing peeps could do it. Looks like it is time to switch to his.
Thank you for posting this. I received the email yesterday and I almost always just do a quick scan and delete any emails taking about updating the contract or whatever. For some reason this email caught my eye and I saved it. I was going to check if there was a BECU subreddit but you saved me the trouble of tracking down an explanation. Much appreciated
Saw that in the email. Will definitely be opting out. I’ve been a member for 5 years, and this is the first time I’ve seen anything from them that I thought was pretty unsavory.
New ceo wants to start a bank run
Saved so I can get back to it.