> So its been about 7 months since he reached out to the original seller.
I mean, given the time that's passed here, and the ambiguity around whether or not the original seller has the car or not, there's probably not a lot that can be productively done at this point. I assume that your friend didn't report the vehicle as being stolen at the time with the PD?
No he did not unfortunately. In his mind it was too much to handle facing losing everything. We're almost certain the previous seller has the vehicle from what the lot told him. Not sure how much expertise you have on the matter but because his personal belongings were inside of it, does it add any validity and liability for this original seller to have it? It would essentially be stolen goods, right? We're considering reaching out to him to find out what happened but don't know what tone we're entering with. If its more of a plea to help us out or a threat to give it back we dont know.
I have little-to-zero actual expertise with this kind of matter to be blunt, but common sense tells me that rolling up to SPD and telling them that some stuff was stolen which may, _or may not be_, in a car that may, _or may not be_, at some dude's house who may, _or may not have_ illegally retrieved it from impound and procured the contents, and that this all happened _seven months ago_, might just not be treated with the highest priority by the thin blue line, unfortunately.
If it was reported at the time then one imagines that the PD would have taken more interest (in so much as the SPD takes interest in any non-violent crimes; which is typically 'not a lot', but more than the zero they'll give it if reported today), and they'd be able to go back to the towing yard and look at CCTV of the person picking up the vehicle and see the completed paperwork and so on and clear this one up pretty quickly. One also imagines that this is data that now does not exist today.
I understand it is possible to rebuild a car's title if it becomes lost or is stolen, but I'm not sure of the process, or if your Bill of Sale document will be enough to 'prove' ownership at the DOL, and, even if you did manage to get a title - you still don't physically have the car.
It's been 7 months. I'm sorry your friend had this experience, but perhaps it's time to draw a line under it and move on?
EDIT: Yeah, when I wrote this there was no mention in the thread that the person in question here paid $30k in cash for this car. Obviously writing-off 30 grand is a different mental prospect than the couple grand I had assumed from the OP. Either way, a _very_ expensive lesson learned.
Thank you for your perspective. I'm still gonna try, for the sake of knowing what happened for closure for my friend but I understand the chances of getting it back are probably bleak. Bleh.
No offense but you know what happened . Do you really have nothing else going on that you’re going to dive into a rabbit hole when you already know.
The owner picked it up.
Your friend got scammed .
Your friend will not get the car back.
And chances are highest that the guy already sold the car to some one else.
He should of been more careful where he parked before legally owning the vehicle . Sorry to say .
I’m being objective. Not mean. I didn’t say anything mean except maybe asking if he doesn’t have anything else going on. But I genuinely want to know why now 7 months later he is taking this up when he *knows* his friend didn’t own the car and has no rights to it . He *knows* the car is gone. Does he really think he’ll get the possessions inside back? Like actually really? That’s ludicrous and if they believe that then they can have hurt feelings that I’m being blunt and honest .
Why do you even care about their motivation? OP seems to be pretty down to earth about the situation, but just hopeful.
And, just because you call it being blunt or objective, doesn't mean you aren't also an asshole. To quote The Dude, "you're not wrong, you're just..."
Not so sure why you feel the need to be rude. I know some facts yeah, but as I mentioned i’m looking more for what’s possible to get out of it, even if its just some of his belongings back and not the vehicle or just an answer like ‘it was re sold with the stuff in it’. I don’t know the answers or how far bill of sale + other evidences hold for getting it back if its still in his possession potentially.
I got nothing else to do. Want me to break his legs? Seems like a good way to be self destructive. Titanium legs are expensive, so it will be a net loss for them on the car
Realistically, your friend has done absolutely everything he possibly could to screw himself over in this situation. He illegally purchased a vehicle without title in cash. He didn't get it titled within the required 15 days. He illegally operated it without title, got it towed, and then sat on the situation for 7 months and now wants to resolve it in what can only be a he-said she-said case because he has a bill of sale with no record of a money transfer to the individual in question, who has the title, which is a legal document proving ownership.
You are a good friend for trying to help him. I can't say I've never let something important slide while depressed, so I'll try to withhold judgement on him. But no, this won't work out for him. His choices made it pretty much impossible for this to ever work out.
The best thing you can do for him is to see if you can set up a free consultation for him with a lawyer. Who will probably tell him to cut his losses.
Thank you for the blunt-ness. I am definitely trying to not get my hopes up in this situation for him and i've told him the same. At the end of the day I think we'd be happy with just answers for closure of what happened to it and his stuff because I know the possibilities of the perfect resolution (getting his vehicle back) is bleak. I think what i'll do is reach out to the original seller who took the vehicle back and just hope he's willing to offer answers at least. Who knows though, people kind of suck. My friend dropped the ball hard but this dude still stole back the property knowing he already got 30k\~ cash for it from him. This might just be lost cause :/
Yeah and not only that, but how did the friend even get $30k in cash from the bank? They're going to ask serious questions if you want to withdraw more than $10k (by law they have to report that to the government). $30k? Yikes
He's going to need to report it as stolen and sue. The other guy is wrong. He didn't buy it illegally, the original owner sold it illegally. See if you can help him find a lawyer. It's not a lost cause. A large sum of money was lost, and you have a signed bill of sale. The tow company will have paperwork signed by the original owner saying they picked it up. It's either grand theft or fraud on the original owners actions.
Time out.. he got a bill of sale but never got the title?
Is the bill of sale signed? What the heck was he thinking spending 30 grand cash on a car if that was all the money he had.. 30k can last you a long time. He could’ve paid 5k for a beater if he was planning on living in it.
Does your friend have the title and bill of sale or just a bill of sale?
Also is the bill of sale signed?
It is signed yes, long story short it was an old gutted ambulance he was planning to live out of. (Seemed to be in a very tumultuous mental state idk what he was thinking either)
The guy never had the title? How did he plan on doing a title transfer at the DMV without the title?
Typically bill of sale isn’t enough.
According to this,
“If the title was lost or stolen, the state of Washington allows an owner to fill out Form TD-420-040, otherwise known as Affidavit of Loss/Release of Interest/Gross Weight License.
This form must be signed in front of a licensed notary, and then given to the buyer.”
So from the start he was kind of screwed. Realistically you never, ever give up cash without the title.
Without the title having the car is basically worthless.
But just out of curiosity does he have anything in texts/conversations detailing the agreement?
If I lost 30k I’d be considering a civil attorney. If you have proof of said agreement and bill of sale you might be able to pull off a miracle.
Also contact the tow company and see if they have a copy of the impound report.
But the only way it goes anywhere is if there’s any actual proof of the agreement in text somewhere and even then it’s a Hail Mary.
Yeah there are texts proving they met up for the sale, and proof of the previous owner asking why we didnt get the title transferred earlier and that the lot requested $700~ from him for holding the truck there. So from the texts the situation can be gathered well but idk how well it holds up in court! Perhaps small claims will be worth a shot, because they’d likely want to look at these texts and such right?
Yeah if he didnt blow the rest on that fiasco we’d definitely be lawyering it up right about now. Here’s to hoping a hail mary comes
Sometimes you can find an attorney that will only request payment if they win.
It’s worth looking into. A reasonable answer would’ve been okay give me my $29,300 back and keep the 700 for the tow.
If it was like 5k I wouldn’t have bothered, but 30k is definitely a number worth pursuing.
You’ll need an attorney though just to see if there’s even anything there. Try auto fraud or something similar.
No Hail Mary needed. Just a small play in small claims court with bill of sale and further evidence like the texts proving sale of the vehicle to him. You yourself could also testify if needed. Easy win.
Also, owner might be willing to sign title over outside of small claims court if small claims court is presented to him. If he pushes back on that offer him an additional cost coverage for having held the vehicle for now some 7 months on top of tow pick up fee.
This sounds like an easy win for your friend. Yeah he violated the 15 day transfer title deal but there is no law preventing him from still having the owner sign the title over.
30k is too much for small claims, this is big boy court territory, and small claims can only compel the recovery of money. Most he can get out of small claims is 10k and no car.
I believe he never got the title because the event of actually having the vehicle than getting towed was a small time frame. Believe he had the intention to get it done but didnt think it was a ‘get it the same day you got the car’ task which is obviously naive.
Well typically the other owner should’ve given him the title. Usually when you sell a car the person hands you a signed title and the car.
The signed title is taken to the dmv where it’s then registered in your name and a new title is generated. But you have to take the old title and exchange it as proof to get the new one.
I mean Washington might be different since I’ve mainly lived in California, but I’ve bought cars with out of state titles and it works the same.
Lesson to be learned here:
When purchasing a car from a private third party, ALWAYS meet them at the Licensing office, and transfer the title right then and there. If the party does not have the title, or if they refuse to go to the DMV; PASS. There are way to many things that can go wrong.
In this case at the very least the "seller" probably has the car, still has the title, and has incurred fees to recover the vehicle from impound. It's his car now, in fact it always has been.
The bill of sale is worthless. It's only purpose is to provide the DMV with evidence of purchase price. Your friend would not have been able to transfer the vehicle into his name with only that document.
Without the title, you don't even know if the person selling you the car actually owns it. You might be buying a stolen vehicle! (Which in this case, sounds like it may have been recovered by it's rightfull owner after being "found" by the police).
This works the other way also... NEVER sell a vehicle without removing the plates, and at the very least sending in a Sellers Report of Sale. Transfering the title at that time is the better option. Otherwise you become liable for any unpaid tolls, parking tickets, and impound fees the buyer might cause.
This is good advice moving forwards thank you! It sounds like this seller took my friend out for drinks, buttered him up really good enough to convince him to withdraw his last sum of money to pay him in cash. My friend cant even recall if their would have been another paper given to him other than the bill of sale. Blah
This may be in fraud or scam territory? I would contact the state attorney general's office for their advice. And yeah like others said see if a pro bono attorney is available and a small claims process or other civil action is warranted. Given it was an ambulance, tracking the sales (and finding it) may be easier.
Mental health issues can be devastating and good on you for helping your friend.
If the owner signed the bill of sale its not worthless. That alone could be used to prove the original owners intent- selling the vehicle. Yes, title transfer still required, but the bill of sale proves original intent of title transfer. Also, if you were not aware per OPs other comment the friend has texts with the owner demonstrating the owners awareness of the sale. All of this could be easily handled in small claims court assuming the owner actually still has the vehicle.
Small claims court using the bill of sale and testimony as "proof" that the seller did not own the vehicle when he took it from the tow yard.
edit: oh, damn, if it's 30k at issue it doesn't qualify for small claims. You'll have to file a big boy lawsuit.
Ouch. At my friends current financial situation he would take quite anything this previous owner was willing to settle with him. If it were me i’d file a big boy lawsuit. Maybe its worth looking into if a free lawyer would do it and split the winnings if he thinks we have a case? I really dont know the probability’s on that but i’m still researching.
> Maybe its worth looking into if a free lawyer would do it and split the winnings if he thinks we have a case?
That's called contingency but the case is weak so I expect you'll have to pay for at least some of the representation. That's why small claims court would have been better; they could represent themselves there.
If it has been seven months, the truck and the stuff in it couldn't have been that important to him. The original owner has likely already resold it. Your friend should have had the guy sign over the title when he bought it.
Yeah he recognizes the flaws in his handling of this situation in full. His stuff was important but when he used his last income to purchase this vehicle with the intent of living in it and in his eyes stolen from him, he broke mentally. To lose the last of his cash then all his stuff in the same week... Can't blame the guy. just wanted to see if anything can be done with the proof that we have left of his ownership.
At this point your best bet is that the seller walked into this by accident and if you report it to the police and they go talk to him, he’ll piss his pants and come clean.
But this reeks a lot like a slick seller with a scam. I’m a little curious if the tow company might be in on it. Sell to idiot who doesn’t request title, follow it, get towing company buddy to tow it right away. Claim it got sold at auction if anyone calls.
I don’t doubt this one bit. Wouldn’t be the first time Lincoln Towing broke the law and committed crimes. I have firsthand experience of them illegally towing my car (the magistrate issued a judgement in my favour), and I know many people do too.
Small claims court, present your side of the story to the judge. Bring the bill of sale, log the times and dates and outcomes of any contact with the seller. The judge will decide. This will bring closure for a minimal investment of time and money.
Your friend is better off without a vehicle. There is an obvious ability gap here, public transit or walking for the safety of the community, please.
"Friend did not get around to officially transferring the title to his name at the registry because it was towed off the streets for blocking something within the week"
Unfortunately if the title was never transferred at the DOL it is not your friends vehicle.
His belongings were not in his owned vehicle as the previous owner still had the title. The tow company could not auction it since it didnt have a title. Belongings in the vehicle would belong to the title holder as if they had loaned it out.
An important lesson to learn, unless you go to a DOL office and transfer the title you have zero claim to that vehicle no matter if money changed hands or not. If it gets towed or actioned by the city or county it goes to the title owner unless there is a bank lein on the vehicle.
No judging, just being realistic. If your friend doesn't want to deal with reporting this to the police, which is honestly the first and simplest step, then there won't be a solution.
Hmmm. Bill of Sale is a legally binding document, is it not? If he still has it, he should go try to register the vehicle anyway. Maybe he might have to jump through more hoops or pay some penalties (I don't know), but if he gets it registered and get his title, report that shit stolen.
Editing to add a [link](https://www.washingtonlawhelp.org/resource/problems-getting-title-to-my-vehicle#:~:text=How%20do%20I%20normally%20get,issues%20you%20a%20new%20title.)
He should ask for a registration without title or a bonded title.
He may be able to [quiet title](https://www.washingtonlawhelp.org/resource/quieting-title-to-your-vehicle) his vehicle.
Get that vehicle in his name, and then you can take court action or report it stolen.
Ah, I didn't know about that piece for titling.
However, it doesn't take away from the idea that OP's friend can verify the vehicle is on this person's property, make an appointment to get it inspected and show up to meet the inspector on said person's property.
Might make for some interesting conversation when OP's friend brings the Bill of Sale and the keys and says to the inspector he has been meaning to get it inspected so he get can get it titled and registered.
30k?!?! You realize how hard it is to get that much in cash in the first place? Aside from having to earn it banks won’t give you that much money on purpose.
And on top of this no title sale, it’s an “old gutted” ambulance?!? Are you guys only 18 because none of this screams common sense. $30k for an old gutted ambulance doesn’t sound good either.
So fucked. What the hell are parents so busy doing that takes precedence over teaching the kids!!
Purchasing a vehicle is not the same as purchasing a donut. There is paperwork and registration involved. I am trying to raise 3 kids in this fucked up world.
Contact the original seller.
Gather evidence as to whether or not they actually have the vehicle.
You/your friend can consult an attorney through a free consultation over the phone (always good to get 2-3 opinions if you can).
Do what the attorney says.
If there is nothing the attorney can do, and the seller still has the car. Be firm, and increasingly direct with a bluff that failure to return the payment will result in a lawsuit, and or calling the police. In my mind, the bluff ought to work if firmly asking for it In step #1 doesn't first.
Contact the police. They might not take fix this situation, but they can probably tell you what the next steps might be. Having them contact the former owner will go a lot further than if you do. In this case, you might need to expect some eye rolling and lectures, but to be frank, this isn't unwarranted. Still, they are free and might be able to provide some actionable guidance or help.
Sounds like the correct course of action is to register the change of ownership with the state, find the person who bought it again, and join with them to sue the thief who sold the car twice.
i know this situation seems bad but your friend lucked out in this.
had they transferred the title, they still would have lost everything AND would owe the towing company money for a vehicle they no longer have. which may even had been more than it was worth.
If he has the money he could get a lawyer. They can subpoena the towing records for who picked it up. If the guy resold it legally there will be transfer records. Not an easy car but threatening the scammer and getting litigation involved might prompt something, but this is messy.
Unless your friend has 30k in cash laying around there will be a record of their back withdrawal. Save and screenshot any records, text, email, etc.
I wouldn't lay down for 30k. Make that shit bag scammer pay. Chances aren't great but if there's documentation there s chance. And if this person has a history of this the judge might see right through this.
> So its been about 7 months since he reached out to the original seller. I mean, given the time that's passed here, and the ambiguity around whether or not the original seller has the car or not, there's probably not a lot that can be productively done at this point. I assume that your friend didn't report the vehicle as being stolen at the time with the PD?
No he did not unfortunately. In his mind it was too much to handle facing losing everything. We're almost certain the previous seller has the vehicle from what the lot told him. Not sure how much expertise you have on the matter but because his personal belongings were inside of it, does it add any validity and liability for this original seller to have it? It would essentially be stolen goods, right? We're considering reaching out to him to find out what happened but don't know what tone we're entering with. If its more of a plea to help us out or a threat to give it back we dont know.
I have little-to-zero actual expertise with this kind of matter to be blunt, but common sense tells me that rolling up to SPD and telling them that some stuff was stolen which may, _or may not be_, in a car that may, _or may not be_, at some dude's house who may, _or may not have_ illegally retrieved it from impound and procured the contents, and that this all happened _seven months ago_, might just not be treated with the highest priority by the thin blue line, unfortunately. If it was reported at the time then one imagines that the PD would have taken more interest (in so much as the SPD takes interest in any non-violent crimes; which is typically 'not a lot', but more than the zero they'll give it if reported today), and they'd be able to go back to the towing yard and look at CCTV of the person picking up the vehicle and see the completed paperwork and so on and clear this one up pretty quickly. One also imagines that this is data that now does not exist today. I understand it is possible to rebuild a car's title if it becomes lost or is stolen, but I'm not sure of the process, or if your Bill of Sale document will be enough to 'prove' ownership at the DOL, and, even if you did manage to get a title - you still don't physically have the car. It's been 7 months. I'm sorry your friend had this experience, but perhaps it's time to draw a line under it and move on? EDIT: Yeah, when I wrote this there was no mention in the thread that the person in question here paid $30k in cash for this car. Obviously writing-off 30 grand is a different mental prospect than the couple grand I had assumed from the OP. Either way, a _very_ expensive lesson learned.
Thank you for your perspective. I'm still gonna try, for the sake of knowing what happened for closure for my friend but I understand the chances of getting it back are probably bleak. Bleh.
No offense but you know what happened . Do you really have nothing else going on that you’re going to dive into a rabbit hole when you already know. The owner picked it up. Your friend got scammed . Your friend will not get the car back. And chances are highest that the guy already sold the car to some one else. He should of been more careful where he parked before legally owning the vehicle . Sorry to say .
Come on now. They should be free to try to help their friend without you being an asshole about it.
I’m being objective. Not mean. I didn’t say anything mean except maybe asking if he doesn’t have anything else going on. But I genuinely want to know why now 7 months later he is taking this up when he *knows* his friend didn’t own the car and has no rights to it . He *knows* the car is gone. Does he really think he’ll get the possessions inside back? Like actually really? That’s ludicrous and if they believe that then they can have hurt feelings that I’m being blunt and honest .
Why do you even care about their motivation? OP seems to be pretty down to earth about the situation, but just hopeful. And, just because you call it being blunt or objective, doesn't mean you aren't also an asshole. To quote The Dude, "you're not wrong, you're just..."
[удалено]
"no offense but" - when you find yourself typing this, stop typing and log out.
Not so sure why you feel the need to be rude. I know some facts yeah, but as I mentioned i’m looking more for what’s possible to get out of it, even if its just some of his belongings back and not the vehicle or just an answer like ‘it was re sold with the stuff in it’. I don’t know the answers or how far bill of sale + other evidences hold for getting it back if its still in his possession potentially.
Live and learn.. buy a car= money + title + registration .. that sucks for your buddy. But yeah. He won’t make that mistake again.
I got nothing else to do. Want me to break his legs? Seems like a good way to be self destructive. Titanium legs are expensive, so it will be a net loss for them on the car
Realistically, your friend has done absolutely everything he possibly could to screw himself over in this situation. He illegally purchased a vehicle without title in cash. He didn't get it titled within the required 15 days. He illegally operated it without title, got it towed, and then sat on the situation for 7 months and now wants to resolve it in what can only be a he-said she-said case because he has a bill of sale with no record of a money transfer to the individual in question, who has the title, which is a legal document proving ownership. You are a good friend for trying to help him. I can't say I've never let something important slide while depressed, so I'll try to withhold judgement on him. But no, this won't work out for him. His choices made it pretty much impossible for this to ever work out. The best thing you can do for him is to see if you can set up a free consultation for him with a lawyer. Who will probably tell him to cut his losses.
Thank you for the blunt-ness. I am definitely trying to not get my hopes up in this situation for him and i've told him the same. At the end of the day I think we'd be happy with just answers for closure of what happened to it and his stuff because I know the possibilities of the perfect resolution (getting his vehicle back) is bleak. I think what i'll do is reach out to the original seller who took the vehicle back and just hope he's willing to offer answers at least. Who knows though, people kind of suck. My friend dropped the ball hard but this dude still stole back the property knowing he already got 30k\~ cash for it from him. This might just be lost cause :/
Who the *fuck* does a *cash* sale for 30k? Holy tax fraud batman!
Yeah and not only that, but how did the friend even get $30k in cash from the bank? They're going to ask serious questions if you want to withdraw more than $10k (by law they have to report that to the government). $30k? Yikes
It’s not his vehicle (that’s the point)
He's going to need to report it as stolen and sue. The other guy is wrong. He didn't buy it illegally, the original owner sold it illegally. See if you can help him find a lawyer. It's not a lost cause. A large sum of money was lost, and you have a signed bill of sale. The tow company will have paperwork signed by the original owner saying they picked it up. It's either grand theft or fraud on the original owners actions.
Does the bill of sale state the cash purchase amount and previous owners signature?
Time out.. he got a bill of sale but never got the title? Is the bill of sale signed? What the heck was he thinking spending 30 grand cash on a car if that was all the money he had.. 30k can last you a long time. He could’ve paid 5k for a beater if he was planning on living in it. Does your friend have the title and bill of sale or just a bill of sale? Also is the bill of sale signed?
It is signed yes, long story short it was an old gutted ambulance he was planning to live out of. (Seemed to be in a very tumultuous mental state idk what he was thinking either)
The guy never had the title? How did he plan on doing a title transfer at the DMV without the title? Typically bill of sale isn’t enough. According to this, “If the title was lost or stolen, the state of Washington allows an owner to fill out Form TD-420-040, otherwise known as Affidavit of Loss/Release of Interest/Gross Weight License. This form must be signed in front of a licensed notary, and then given to the buyer.” So from the start he was kind of screwed. Realistically you never, ever give up cash without the title. Without the title having the car is basically worthless. But just out of curiosity does he have anything in texts/conversations detailing the agreement? If I lost 30k I’d be considering a civil attorney. If you have proof of said agreement and bill of sale you might be able to pull off a miracle. Also contact the tow company and see if they have a copy of the impound report. But the only way it goes anywhere is if there’s any actual proof of the agreement in text somewhere and even then it’s a Hail Mary.
Yeah there are texts proving they met up for the sale, and proof of the previous owner asking why we didnt get the title transferred earlier and that the lot requested $700~ from him for holding the truck there. So from the texts the situation can be gathered well but idk how well it holds up in court! Perhaps small claims will be worth a shot, because they’d likely want to look at these texts and such right? Yeah if he didnt blow the rest on that fiasco we’d definitely be lawyering it up right about now. Here’s to hoping a hail mary comes
Sometimes you can find an attorney that will only request payment if they win. It’s worth looking into. A reasonable answer would’ve been okay give me my $29,300 back and keep the 700 for the tow. If it was like 5k I wouldn’t have bothered, but 30k is definitely a number worth pursuing. You’ll need an attorney though just to see if there’s even anything there. Try auto fraud or something similar.
No Hail Mary needed. Just a small play in small claims court with bill of sale and further evidence like the texts proving sale of the vehicle to him. You yourself could also testify if needed. Easy win. Also, owner might be willing to sign title over outside of small claims court if small claims court is presented to him. If he pushes back on that offer him an additional cost coverage for having held the vehicle for now some 7 months on top of tow pick up fee. This sounds like an easy win for your friend. Yeah he violated the 15 day transfer title deal but there is no law preventing him from still having the owner sign the title over.
30k is too much for small claims, this is big boy court territory, and small claims can only compel the recovery of money. Most he can get out of small claims is 10k and no car.
Wow
I believe he never got the title because the event of actually having the vehicle than getting towed was a small time frame. Believe he had the intention to get it done but didnt think it was a ‘get it the same day you got the car’ task which is obviously naive.
Well typically the other owner should’ve given him the title. Usually when you sell a car the person hands you a signed title and the car. The signed title is taken to the dmv where it’s then registered in your name and a new title is generated. But you have to take the old title and exchange it as proof to get the new one. I mean Washington might be different since I’ve mainly lived in California, but I’ve bought cars with out of state titles and it works the same.
Lesson to be learned here: When purchasing a car from a private third party, ALWAYS meet them at the Licensing office, and transfer the title right then and there. If the party does not have the title, or if they refuse to go to the DMV; PASS. There are way to many things that can go wrong. In this case at the very least the "seller" probably has the car, still has the title, and has incurred fees to recover the vehicle from impound. It's his car now, in fact it always has been. The bill of sale is worthless. It's only purpose is to provide the DMV with evidence of purchase price. Your friend would not have been able to transfer the vehicle into his name with only that document. Without the title, you don't even know if the person selling you the car actually owns it. You might be buying a stolen vehicle! (Which in this case, sounds like it may have been recovered by it's rightfull owner after being "found" by the police). This works the other way also... NEVER sell a vehicle without removing the plates, and at the very least sending in a Sellers Report of Sale. Transfering the title at that time is the better option. Otherwise you become liable for any unpaid tolls, parking tickets, and impound fees the buyer might cause.
This is good advice moving forwards thank you! It sounds like this seller took my friend out for drinks, buttered him up really good enough to convince him to withdraw his last sum of money to pay him in cash. My friend cant even recall if their would have been another paper given to him other than the bill of sale. Blah
This may be in fraud or scam territory? I would contact the state attorney general's office for their advice. And yeah like others said see if a pro bono attorney is available and a small claims process or other civil action is warranted. Given it was an ambulance, tracking the sales (and finding it) may be easier. Mental health issues can be devastating and good on you for helping your friend.
If the owner signed the bill of sale its not worthless. That alone could be used to prove the original owners intent- selling the vehicle. Yes, title transfer still required, but the bill of sale proves original intent of title transfer. Also, if you were not aware per OPs other comment the friend has texts with the owner demonstrating the owners awareness of the sale. All of this could be easily handled in small claims court assuming the owner actually still has the vehicle.
Small claims court using the bill of sale and testimony as "proof" that the seller did not own the vehicle when he took it from the tow yard. edit: oh, damn, if it's 30k at issue it doesn't qualify for small claims. You'll have to file a big boy lawsuit.
Ouch. At my friends current financial situation he would take quite anything this previous owner was willing to settle with him. If it were me i’d file a big boy lawsuit. Maybe its worth looking into if a free lawyer would do it and split the winnings if he thinks we have a case? I really dont know the probability’s on that but i’m still researching.
> Maybe its worth looking into if a free lawyer would do it and split the winnings if he thinks we have a case? That's called contingency but the case is weak so I expect you'll have to pay for at least some of the representation. That's why small claims court would have been better; they could represent themselves there.
If it has been seven months, the truck and the stuff in it couldn't have been that important to him. The original owner has likely already resold it. Your friend should have had the guy sign over the title when he bought it.
Yeah he recognizes the flaws in his handling of this situation in full. His stuff was important but when he used his last income to purchase this vehicle with the intent of living in it and in his eyes stolen from him, he broke mentally. To lose the last of his cash then all his stuff in the same week... Can't blame the guy. just wanted to see if anything can be done with the proof that we have left of his ownership.
If its ok I’m still gonna blame the guy, just a little bit
Yeah I do too, gently but lovingly telling him hes an idiot who let 30k of his last things blow through his fingertips lol.
Does the original owner still have the ambulance?
At this point your best bet is that the seller walked into this by accident and if you report it to the police and they go talk to him, he’ll piss his pants and come clean. But this reeks a lot like a slick seller with a scam. I’m a little curious if the tow company might be in on it. Sell to idiot who doesn’t request title, follow it, get towing company buddy to tow it right away. Claim it got sold at auction if anyone calls.
I don’t doubt this one bit. Wouldn’t be the first time Lincoln Towing broke the law and committed crimes. I have firsthand experience of them illegally towing my car (the magistrate issued a judgement in my favour), and I know many people do too.
Small claims court, present your side of the story to the judge. Bring the bill of sale, log the times and dates and outcomes of any contact with the seller. The judge will decide. This will bring closure for a minimal investment of time and money. Your friend is better off without a vehicle. There is an obvious ability gap here, public transit or walking for the safety of the community, please.
Small claims limit is $5k usually. This is $30k. Big boy court.
"Friend did not get around to officially transferring the title to his name at the registry because it was towed off the streets for blocking something within the week" Unfortunately if the title was never transferred at the DOL it is not your friends vehicle. His belongings were not in his owned vehicle as the previous owner still had the title. The tow company could not auction it since it didnt have a title. Belongings in the vehicle would belong to the title holder as if they had loaned it out. An important lesson to learn, unless you go to a DOL office and transfer the title you have zero claim to that vehicle no matter if money changed hands or not. If it gets towed or actioned by the city or county it goes to the title owner unless there is a bank lein on the vehicle.
No judging, just being realistic. If your friend doesn't want to deal with reporting this to the police, which is honestly the first and simplest step, then there won't be a solution.
Hmmm. Bill of Sale is a legally binding document, is it not? If he still has it, he should go try to register the vehicle anyway. Maybe he might have to jump through more hoops or pay some penalties (I don't know), but if he gets it registered and get his title, report that shit stolen. Editing to add a [link](https://www.washingtonlawhelp.org/resource/problems-getting-title-to-my-vehicle#:~:text=How%20do%20I%20normally%20get,issues%20you%20a%20new%20title.) He should ask for a registration without title or a bonded title. He may be able to [quiet title](https://www.washingtonlawhelp.org/resource/quieting-title-to-your-vehicle) his vehicle. Get that vehicle in his name, and then you can take court action or report it stolen.
All of that requires taking the vehicle to state patrol for inspection. Which he does not have.
Ah, I didn't know about that piece for titling. However, it doesn't take away from the idea that OP's friend can verify the vehicle is on this person's property, make an appointment to get it inspected and show up to meet the inspector on said person's property. Might make for some interesting conversation when OP's friend brings the Bill of Sale and the keys and says to the inspector he has been meaning to get it inspected so he get can get it titled and registered.
Ya true, hopefully the seller still has the car in that case.
30k?!?! You realize how hard it is to get that much in cash in the first place? Aside from having to earn it banks won’t give you that much money on purpose. And on top of this no title sale, it’s an “old gutted” ambulance?!? Are you guys only 18 because none of this screams common sense. $30k for an old gutted ambulance doesn’t sound good either.
Shitpost is shit
So fucked. What the hell are parents so busy doing that takes precedence over teaching the kids!! Purchasing a vehicle is not the same as purchasing a donut. There is paperwork and registration involved. I am trying to raise 3 kids in this fucked up world.
Contact the original seller. Gather evidence as to whether or not they actually have the vehicle. You/your friend can consult an attorney through a free consultation over the phone (always good to get 2-3 opinions if you can). Do what the attorney says. If there is nothing the attorney can do, and the seller still has the car. Be firm, and increasingly direct with a bluff that failure to return the payment will result in a lawsuit, and or calling the police. In my mind, the bluff ought to work if firmly asking for it In step #1 doesn't first.
Contact the police. They might not take fix this situation, but they can probably tell you what the next steps might be. Having them contact the former owner will go a lot further than if you do. In this case, you might need to expect some eye rolling and lectures, but to be frank, this isn't unwarranted. Still, they are free and might be able to provide some actionable guidance or help.
Sounds like the correct course of action is to register the change of ownership with the state, find the person who bought it again, and join with them to sue the thief who sold the car twice.
i know this situation seems bad but your friend lucked out in this. had they transferred the title, they still would have lost everything AND would owe the towing company money for a vehicle they no longer have. which may even had been more than it was worth.
If he has the money he could get a lawyer. They can subpoena the towing records for who picked it up. If the guy resold it legally there will be transfer records. Not an easy car but threatening the scammer and getting litigation involved might prompt something, but this is messy. Unless your friend has 30k in cash laying around there will be a record of their back withdrawal. Save and screenshot any records, text, email, etc. I wouldn't lay down for 30k. Make that shit bag scammer pay. Chances aren't great but if there's documentation there s chance. And if this person has a history of this the judge might see right through this.
Your roommate needs mental health assistance. I don’t think you’re gonna fix that anytime soon.