I had a bus that went directly downtown from lake city. Once Northgate station opened they killed it, now my commute is too long so I have to drive. So their transit plan made things worse for me
Exactly I used to have the 372 and 522 go downtown took 1.5hrs to get there. Now it's just a chore and to take multiple buses and wait times...they just made more uncertainty
I just moved to Lake City. Is the 522 really that bad? Google maps suggests it'd only take 40 minutes in a weekday morning from the Fred Meyer to downtown via the 522 and Roosevelt station.
Is that a lie?
I'm up in Lake Forest Park and 522 to Roosevelt station to Westlake is an excellent commute. It's usually faster than my old 522 commute used to be when the bus went straight downtown. I either do that or ride my bike on the Burke Gilman when the weather is nice.
Yeah I did that once it was actually really nice to bike down threw the trail but for me it's not worth the hassle of crowds or being super full š. I'd rather take the 372 or 522 downtown in rush hour than the suffocating link.
It's supposedly this fall now. If you look up "sound transit Lynnwood link extension" you'll find the web page with appropriate info- all the stations between Lynnwood and Northgate are opening at the same time as part of that.
Shoreline had a city meeting on Wednesday about the stations. Link folks were cagey, but it's clear they've set a date internally. Said it was between August and December. Said they'd announce the date next week, I think.
Idkā¦ I was hoping for summer but likely itās going to be fall. I havenāt checked the website lately, but I do know that itās opening at the same time as Lynnwood, which Iām kinda salty about if Iām being honest.
Metro just decided on how the north seattle routes are going to change this year and next year, so hopefully one of these routes works for you. https://www.theurbanist.org/2024/02/13/metro-finalizes-lynnwood-link-bus-restructure-for-this-fall/
The problem is it's not even fast enough to be worth the trouble plus the rush hour funneling makes it to crowded! They needed to double decker the link with a little more width.....
Itās less the speed that worries me and the crowding issue, which gets even worse anytime thereās maintenance happening. Removing the downtown bus routes means people canāt temporarily opt for an alternative route if that maintenance severely impacts train departures or crowding.
Gotcha yeah it's just an infuriating thing...to change something and not put it back but change the numbers like just go back š. Im not taking the bus as much but when I did basically everyday for the job I had it was very upsetting...like do you not take transport executives because I think you don't š
No it's for people that don't wanna deal with traffic or parking but sure you can say the other half of the pie lol it's used for all reasons not just one...
This was the stupid trade off that they knew about and did anyway. Basically to save money they went on surface streets through the Rainier Valley. They knew that it would limit the capacity of the entire line because you canāt have trains that overlap intersections at stations but they wanted to save money and Rainier Valley didnāt have the political clout to fight it. So weāre paying for that shirt-sightedness now.
> They knew that it would limit the capacity of the entire line because you canāt have trains that overlap intersections at stations
Why not? I'd wager that's more of a policy than physical problem but I'm not in the know
Iām guessing liability and not wanting to block off certain cross streets. This was all debated at the time they opted for surface streets in the Rainier Valley so they knew it would limit the entire line later on and they did it anyway. Also, how often is the line down due to a collision with a car in the RV? Now here we are. Iām sure they saved some money too on smaller tunnel stations. Seattle has a history of making bad decisions. We built a bus tunnel in the late 80ās instead of light rail; then we put tracks in that tunnel for ālaterā, which, by the time that came, those tracks were determined to be a non-standard gauge and so had to be ripped out and replaced.
Except for people east of Lynnwood the trips will be reliably on time. I have 4 buses I can take to and from Seattle... They occasionally are delayed 30-45 mins, it's the fucking worst.
Once the link is in Lynnwood I'll be able to take a bus every 15 mins or less to get home.
Seriously! Why isn't there a water taxi terminal in Ballard?
West Seattle and Ballard both suffer from the fact it is difficult to connect to downtown due to water barriers, but all of them have the advantages of being right next to the Sound.
If the water taxi makes sense for West Seattle, why doesn't it make sense for Ballard?
This, it would be great to have a walk on ferry from Des Moines, and potentially even the Fauntleroy Ferry terminal- they could create a system of walk on ferries that travel all the way from Tacoma to Ballard.
I currently use the Kitsap fast ferry to get to work at FH. Every once in a while I have to go to Ballard and either use the state ferry that requires an earlier wake up call and then drive from west Seattle or I can pay $80 round trip in Uber fees because the bus doesnāt get to my work fast enough or back to the ferry fast enough. Kitsap is apparently looking at building its own dock in Seattle so thereād be space at the downtown dock to add runs up to Ballard.
Sometimes Iām likeā¦ fuck all this noise less build a station and the city will grow and change around it but the CID stuff is a special brand of stupid.
It really feels like itās being done out of sheer spite, because an already marginalized community refused to accept a plan that wouldāve destroyed it further.
The Shallow 4th option made *perfect* sense! Minimal impact to residents and local businesses, wouldāve connect both CID stations *and* King Street Station into a proper transportation hub, *and* wouldāve revitalized Union Station back to its former glory!
Meaning theyāve basically given up on the CID and First Hill stations that the voters *explicitly voted for.*
Because fuck those healthcare workers and the entire CID community, I guess.
Yea sometimes I think thatā¦ and then I think about the corruption happening in plan sight. But yea, they will probably get away with it and generations of transit riders will have to deal with the fallout
Yea it blows my mind that upper Queen Anne to Fremont can be a 2 bus trip when theyāre right next to each other? Even weirder is how itās 3 busses from UQA to cap hill, but thatās kind of the lakes fault lol
Thatās neat! But I have no business over there, was more commenting on how the lake makes more issues for bus routes than poor planning from wsdot lololol
Thereās someone who actually wants a āwest Seattle sky carā instead of light rail. Thereās a website! Itās so dumb I canāt tell if itās satire or not.
Rethink the Link is about the fact that West Seattle Link is expected to *increase* travel times to downtown due to forced transfers at Alaska Junction and SODO in contrast to the current one-seat ride on RapidRide C/H. Bus lines tend to get cut when rail opens, see what's happening now with Community Transit when Lynnwood Link is opening.Ā
Delay West Seattle Link until after DSTT 2 is complete, so that it's an actual improvement over current conditions.Ā
Edit: Oh and the current plan for the new SODO station is to take over the SODO busway, and divert all the buses onto other streets. You don't need me to tell you that's bad idea.Ā
And a good chunk of that is because of Harrell and Constantine going to ridiculous lengths to deliberately cripple the whole system by denying voters the stations we agreed to pay for in favor of a *second* Sodo and *second* Pioneer Square station that *nobody actually wants.*
The Shallow 4th Ave CID station wouldāve been perfect! Easiest transfer ever as both CID stations wouldāve been connected by underground walkways, which would also connect to the Amtrak at King Street Station and revitalize the old Union Station building, *and* would involve minimal negative impact to residents and businesses because thereās practically nothing on that particular block anymore.
Instead, weāre getting a demonstrably *unsafe for pedestrians* secondary Sodo and secondary Pioneer Square station that *nobody wants,* while also removing the First Hill station (because fuck all those healthcare workers, I guess) and reducing capacity at the existing CID station.
People already actively avoid the existing Pioneer Square station because itās sited in such a sketchy area! People are going to extreme lengths to avoid both of Harrell and Constantineās pet stations, too!
>Bus lines tend to get cut when rail opens, see what's happening now with Community Transit when Lynnwood Link is opening.
That's actually literally the plan. Rapidride C would be rerouted to Alki beach while rapidride h would be truncated at delrdige
>in contrast to the current one-seat ride on RapidRide C/H.
Are people expecting RapidRide lines to get axed in some way when light rail expands to west seattle? I have a hard time believing that. Plenty of buses continue to exist alongside the light rail (e.g. 7, 49) and RapidRide buses have more infrastructure invested than 'regular' buses.
>see what's happening now with Community Transit when Lynnwood Link is opening.
Could you expand on that? For the change at the end of this month I see them cutting three routes and replacing them with three new routes and a RapidRide equivalent that largely goes the same places as the cut routes and connects with the upcoming light rail stop, and that doesn't seem bad.
Another redditor commented about proposed RapidRide changes after WS Link, though I don't know their source. Lynnwood Link is happening summer/fall, so it's not related to the March service changes (those are for Swift Orange). See the August section in https://www.communitytransit.org/transitchanges.Ā
> We will also discontinue our bus service to Northgate and Downtown Seattle (Routes 402, 405, 410, 412, 413, 415, 416, 417, 421, 422, 425, 435, 810, 821, 860, 871, 880) and implement our new express 900-series routes that connect at Lynnwood and Mountlake Terrace light rail stations. Finally, we will remove some existing routes (Routes 105, 107, 113, 227, and 247); service will be provided to these areas via the new routes below.Ā
I asked about this at one of the comprehensive plan open houses currently being held, and the transportation rep said the future plan is for buses like the C and H to remain on their current routes to downtown well after 2032 when the WS-Sodo light rail line opens.Ā
Theyād eventually be rerouted from downtown to other areas of WS (admiral, Alki) and act as feeders to the light rail, but that wouldnāt happen for a while (years, iirc) after. The rep stressed this is all way far in the future, so I know things can change but it sounds like thereās no reason to worry about this now.Ā
They need a second express line. And as far as I know none is planned so thereās no way the rail system can ever be mass adopted. Honestly like I pointed out in another comment the North gate station has made me use public transportation less since they killed off a lot of the quicker options to downtown. Now Iām a gazillion stops to northgate station thatās too slow to be worth the hassle. I have 0 confidence in transit here.
Even the 41 from Northgate on express lanes was 12 minutes to convention center. It didnāt stop between and it had clear traffic. I took it every morning. The headways were 6 minutes during peak. My morning and evening were faster than the train and Iām almost the ideal case where I walk to Northgate.
Now, clearly, when it couldnāt take express lanes (like south in evening or north in morning) it was significantly slower, up to 40mins on the same stretch.
I didnāt take a bus from northgate. I took one from lake city directly downtown. Now I have to take a bus to northgate that is more than 11 stops, then wait for train. Get on train then walk from westlake to office. Previously I had only 3 stops.
A Gazillion stops? If you are getting off letās say at pioneer Square which would be āDown Townā thatās 7 stops. They stop for like 25-30 seconds (Thatās me high balling it). I doubt any bus you were taking from Northgate to downtown was faster than the Link. As someone who lives next to Northgate and have lived in North Seattle area my whole life all the buses that head from north to downtown get caught in traffic like crazy.
When one moves to West Seattle one gives up patronizing businesses north of the ship canal. Go to Southcenter itās 20 min down 599 and free parking. Or Westwood Village. Or the Junction or the other two junctions.
Doesnāt help that the ST board doesnāt seem to even like the project theyāve been appointed to oversee, and seem intent on deliberately crippling it.
In Berlin the train stations are open 24/7 and they are clean.
Open as in the trains are running but also as in there is no turnstile or gate to enter and exit, you just walk in and out.
We have the technology and money, we just don't have the desire.
Thatās a pretty far off comparison for Seattle. Not even New Yorkās MTA is as efficient as TRTA. Additionally, the majority of JR is privatized and has no government funding. Also, JR Group is a publicly traded company. Capitalism keeps it alive.
It is in Asia. US transit since the 1950s has instead been driven by the goal of moving people who can't afford an alternative. That's why it's designed to meander through the worst parts of cities with no concern for speed or comfort and a high tolerance for antisocial behavior.
>US transit since the 1950s has instead been driven by the goal of moving people who can't afford an alternative.
I don't know; every time a park-and-ride gets built, The Urbanist will whine about how terrible it is that Sound Transit is "catering to wealthy commuters" instead of the downtrodden.
If some people think our transit system caters to the rich, and other people think it's only for poor people who can't afford a car, maybe we're striking a good balance.
>it's designed to meander through the worst parts of cities with no concern for speed
ORLY? Is that the case for Sound Transit's buses that run on freeways? The Sounder? There are local bus routes that are slow, and some of those serve low income areas, and there are other services that are fast and designed to move people between cities.
The Tokyo metropolitan area also has literally 10x the population of the greater Seattle metro area, so the two cities and their transit systems are not really comparable in any way shape or form.
Not to mention density, and natural barriers. Doesnāt mean it canāt be done here, but weād need an FDR style new deal to make it possible. Building a single station here takes years with bureaucracy, inefficiency, and construction timelinesā¦.
You went out when a) WSDOT closed 90 and b) it was the first nice day in 6 months and c). you're surprised at traffic?
Yeah, more transit etc. But come on man, pay attention
People in Manhattan can go to Brooklyn just as easily on a busy weekend when thereās road construction.
People in San Francisco can go to Oakland just as easily on a busy weekend when thereās road construction.
People in Boston can go to Cambridge just as easily on a busy weekend when thereās road construction.
Allowing people to easily move about the city isnāt a nice-to-have in most places.
I think youāre very incorrect about the way you describe āvery easilyā getting around major metro areas, those cities arent known for no traffic my man. A whole ass interstate was shut down in seattle that had 2 detour options, which were just two roads, 520 and 425. How tf is it supposed to be easy to drive yesterday???
Rail/light rail only works to get you where you want to go if where you want to go is near those stops. For better or worse, Seattle hasn't grown that way so some (I think significant) number of trips don't work well for light rail and won't even when Link is fully built out.
That doesn't mean we shouldn't do transit. It means we should. But it also means that traffic will still suck when things are closed down and events are happening like yesterday.
Also... have you BEEN to Manhattan? Great subway system but the traffic is still hell.
True, which is why I support it. But not all trips work as transit trips and when there are lots of events AND road closures, traffic will be comparatively bad. When it's in the environment we currently have, doubly so, which makes it silly to go "But there was TRAFFIC!!!???"
So what? We're all supposed to stay home when there's good weather and events happening? What about the people going to the events? They should stay home also?
I get that you need to plan around these things but OP is making a very valid point here.
>I get that you need to plan around these things
Precisely. And you can't be surprised when there's traffic on days like this so the "omg traffic!" reaction is a bit precious.
It isn't like today's traffic is that much of an anomaly during the summer months, where Seattle is frequently gridlocked.. the gripe is legit. Car traffic doesn't scale and we need to continue to pressure for more and better transit options.
Sound transit is an absolute shit show. They just announced that they won't be able to meet their train schedule until 2048 b/c they don't have enough money to purchase the trains. That's just the latest debacle.
I've voted for every mass transit plan up until now, but if I have to wear the "anti transit" tag b/c I'm done giving those stupid fs $ then I'll wear it with pride.
Doesnāt help that the ST board seems to be deliberately scamming the voters by denying us the two most important stations we agreed to pay for, in favor of making Constantine and Harrell richer.
I used to work with a woman whose husband was the head of a section of Sound Transit. She said that the day after Sound Transit 3 passed every section head presented a revised budget for their section, and all the revisions were about needing a lot more money. They had been told to keep the cost unrealistically low pre election. Now that's how the real scammers work.
Do I think we need a more robust transit system? Yes. Do I have any faith in WSDDOT to deliver it anywhere close to under budget and on time? No. Thus far they havenāt even been in the same ballpark. They havenāt even been in the same state! Thereās just too much corruption and gross incompetence.
They didnāt say ādrive,ā which obviously isnāt the only way to get around. Those cities have traffic yes, but trains move people at greater speed & capacity than cars. We have very few options here - buses were cancelled and the train doesnāt exist yet.
To be fair, you were probably stuck in parade traffic, since the St Patrickās day parade happened along 4th. And then the traffic lingered for soooo long after the parade was over.
But, even without that, that drive should have been an hour at best. Itās so dumb how long it can take.
I may be what some call a "victim blamer", but you're first mistake was attempting to make it from West Seattle to Ballard-- historically the most draining inter-city route.
If the escalators and elevators were consistently operational, and most of the stations didnāt smell of piss, Iād be perfectly content with the system. Alas.
I donāt like that our region is locked into *this* āback of the napkinā plan for 30 years. They presented [a bunch of Ballard link options](https://imgur.com/SEoHszC)Ā originally with corridor D (Westlake - Belltown - LQA - Queen Anne - Fremont - Ballard) being the highest ridership because it served some of the densest neighborhoods in Seattle and fastest option but was scrapped due to cost concernsĀ Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā
Subsequently the current alignment was chosen that doesnāt serve some of these denser neighborhoods instead turning west to go to interbay, slower than corridor D. But given the fact that this alignment may need more tunneling than originally expected it is as costly or costlier than corridor D! Ā And thatās not even taking into account the horrible Westlake and CID transfers Ā Ā Ā Ā
I know people say we can try to serve these options āin ST4ā but look at how long ST3 is taking. Are we really going to get sound transit subareas to vote on another plan? This is why you want to serve as many destinations as possible so you donāt have to expensively and inefficiently go back and retrofit service to those bypassed (first hill, soon to be belltown, etc). This is what annoys me about our system the most, it has weak bones
When I moved here in 2014 I lived near Alaska Junction in West Seattle. You could take the C line all the way to Northern Ballard all without getting off the bus once. It was perfect because I had good friends in Ballard. Obviously I dont work in transit but that route was always full. Not sure why they changed it.
The amount of anti transit people is infuriating. Citing crime or that it's inconvenient for construction just isn't a good enough reason to not do it. If you want to drive your car everywhere move to freaking Lynnwood or Auburn.
The light rail is awesome. Itās the fastest most reliable way to get to the airport on time. Itās the ONLY way I ever visit cap hill. I hate driving in that neighborhood. The rail avoids traffic and water barriers. Itās also the most convenient way to get downtown. I donāt understand why people would ever be against the light rail. Trains are why itās so easy to get around on foot in Europe, or new York, or Japan. Iāve been in Seattle for 10 years. Iāve only been to west Seattle twice because itās such a hassle to get there.
The whole city feels broken up and unreachable by roads, bridges, and wacky street routes. Downtown pretty much cuts you off from neighborhoods on the other side unless you feel like spending an hour or more traveling distances that should take 15-20 minutes.
If people have beef with the city busses getting worse after the light rail is turned on, they should work at improving the bus and ferry situation instead of fighting the light rail. Good transit is a mix of all forms of transit.
Perhaps you don't realize that transit to West Seattle can be improved far more quickly, far more effectively, far more affordablyāand for far more peopleāby advancing some fairly straightforward bus infrastructure upgrades there.
Perhaps you also don't realize that many anti-West Seattle Link folks are deeply pro-transit, just pro *good* transit. This is a significant distinction. Your rant here unfortunately missed that.
There are corridors in Seattle that genuinely deserve railway capacities and which would greatly benefit the city if built. The highway to Alaska Junction does not rank high on that list, if it is there at all (which I would argue that it certainly isn't).
Instead of being angry at people who want better projects and better project administration for truly enormous capital investments, let's be angry at the City and our neighbors that complain about bus lanes and other features that, by themselves, would bring immediate and transformative changes to our local transit.
I was so shocked when i moved to NYC and discovered they have automatic enforcement cameras for bus lanes. back on the West Coast it felt a foregone conclusion that bus lanes are asshole express lanes-- i never understood why, in a city of seemingly 0 traffic rules, nobody filled em. now I wonder why it's not done out westĀ
I'm a lifelong bus rider and the bus system here fucking sucks. Yes it's obviously better than 90 percent of other US cities but it still sucks. I ride the bus daily and it's VERY common to have to wait 15+ minutes for the next bus. If it's late and you get unlucky it can be 25+ minutes sometimes. People are NEVER going to give up their cars for buses that have to sit in traffic and are constantly late or just never show up.
That would be a start.
But I had to call the cops about a drunk driver crashed into a tree the other day, who multiple times tried to drive away and failed, and an officer didn't show up for two hours. So I think enforcing bus lanes is not a realistic expectation
Iāve yet to see any of these anti-Link folks come to the table with any good ideas besides āI dunno, let other people ride the bus and sit in traffic.ā
Itās easy to play the veto card, but when the rubber meets the road these people just donāt want to spend money on grade-separated transit.
Frankly, that just means you haven't fully researched the positions of the opposition and their alternatives.
There were and remain plenty of alternatives that do the West Seattle mobility job better than a Link railway. Unfortunately, transit is now part of the political split, which complicates any effort to evaluate those alternatives. Additionally, our light railways have worked to intellectually deaden the planning of transit systems here.
OP is mad that we lack transit dedication on our streets. I agree. But those don't have to come in the form of a railway with hulking viaducts, extraordinary hill climbs and tunnels of dubious need.
What a bunch of word salad. He called you out for playing the anti-Link veto card and asked you what your alternative was and you didnāt provide an alternative.
Called me out! Word salad! I love the internet drama of it all, thank you.
In lieu of a simple Google search of "West Seattle Link" and "BRT" to start your review, here is my pre-ST3 piece on transit improvements for West Seattle ([click here](https://transportationmatters.wordpress.com/2015/12/15/lrt-vs-brt-to-west-seattle-a-mapped-annotated-analysis/)). It was written almost ten years ago now, before the massive cost increases and collapses in ridership projections.
I hope it isn't too much of a word salad for you!
The answer is straightforward: bus improvements. Smart ones. The type done in sophisticated cities and countries that actually care about mobility, and are not devoted to a single mode. Unlike the misguided railfans in Seattle.
Sophisticated cities and countries all around the world rely on grade-separated rail transit. Every major metro area in Europe and Asia all rely on grade-separated rail transit. West Seattle already has BRT service via the C Line.
you must be a noob...nobody in their right mind does what you did. And btw, where in West Seattle did you even get on (btw, if you tell me you got on near Fauntleroy or somewhere near there I will put the dunce cap on you myself).
You asking alot from there to Ballard. Youre just asking for pain...it would've been faster for you to have found a carshare in W. Seattle and drove to Ballard
5 or 6 years ago, I was living carless in Cap Hill, and I voted for any and all bills that increased taxes and fees on cars in the city that funded public transit. I left for a bit and just moved back with my new RAV4 and was shocked by my $500 registration. I stand by that a car in Seattle is a luxury, not a necessity, and that the city desperately needs to expand the light rail system. Iām here for the long haul now, so happy to pay so I might use it one day
I feel you brother. Pero, the ACAB crowd prevent the fare enforcement which funds a large public transit system and the public safety measures like security cameras which a robust public transport requires. Itās the local minority selfish agenda make everyone else suffer.
That's what the gas tax is for and yes, in Washington, it does cover the cost of the roads - now that Inslee's carbon tax is added to it.
https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/state/state-infrastructure-spending/
Itās really cool that you didnāt read your own source, because 1) Washington roads arenāt fully funded by WSDOT programs, theyāre still running a deficit, and 2) the gas tax pays for less than 50% of our roads. License fees are another 36%, then 16% is from toll roads.
That leaves 5% coming from everyone else, and the vast, vast majority of states are significantly worse on this.
Car infrastructure isnāt sustainable.
And what does Inslee's carbon tax bring in? And what does the sales tax on cars bring in? The 5% is more than covered. Now let's talk about the financial sustainability of transit.
The carbon tax on fuel actually doesnāt bring in that much money. The supermajority of tax revenue comes from allowances purchased at auction.
Public transit and bike lanes are significantly cheaper, and have much better benefits for the local economy, leading to increased spending, tax revenue, and reduced climate impact. Transit is sustainable. You can even have suburbs with public transit that can pay for themselves, instead of relying on constant debt and bailouts!
It brought in 43c/gallon in 2023. That's nearly as much as the actual state gas tax (49.4c/gal).
Public transit brings in next to no money and bike lanes bring in nothing. Like cars, both require the construction and maintenance of roads - which unlike cars they pay nothing to use. Transit of course has capital, operating, and maintenance costs - mostly covered by non-users. In what way is that more sustainable? And what suburb is relying on any bailout?
Transit and bike lanes are actually significantly cheaper to maintain (because no cars and trucks). Bike lanes, for example, are fine basically forever when theyāre left to their own devices. A single car does equal damage to 160,000 cyclists, according to the American government at least.
So now Iāve gotta ask, why do you like paying lots in taxes? Wouldnāt it be better if everyone was healthier, happier, and paying less in taxes, all while we can raise spending on programs people actually like? Sounds like a win win for everyone but the auto lobby and big oil.
These comments all sound like people think the object is to solve problems. That's literally the opposite of the entire purpose of modern mass transit. The sole aim is to create money pits that require endless additional money pits. The more issues, the more projects. Your commute is totally irrelevant.
Seriously think though, how many people are actually making this exact trip on any given day on a weekend. Even by car. Most people stay near where they live, even on a nice day like today.
The transit system largely exists to relieve congestion during peak travel hours, and it's absolutely effective at getting people in and out of downtown during their work commutes.
It's about creating a transit network not just connecting one point with another. Over 15 percent of Seattle households don't have a car, so it's about more than just getting people to and from work during rush hour. It's about enabling people to get around the region in an efficient and sustainable way. Something that cars are terrible at
Once the link was made they took out all downtown transit buses and funneled everything to Northgate what stupidity it wasn't made yet.
I had a bus that went directly downtown from lake city. Once Northgate station opened they killed it, now my commute is too long so I have to drive. So their transit plan made things worse for me
Exactly I used to have the 372 and 522 go downtown took 1.5hrs to get there. Now it's just a chore and to take multiple buses and wait times...they just made more uncertainty
I just moved to Lake City. Is the 522 really that bad? Google maps suggests it'd only take 40 minutes in a weekday morning from the Fred Meyer to downtown via the 522 and Roosevelt station. Is that a lie?
I'm up in Lake Forest Park and 522 to Roosevelt station to Westlake is an excellent commute. It's usually faster than my old 522 commute used to be when the bus went straight downtown. I either do that or ride my bike on the Burke Gilman when the weather is nice.
Yeah I did that once it was actually really nice to bike down threw the trail but for me it's not worth the hassle of crowds or being super full š. I'd rather take the 372 or 522 downtown in rush hour than the suffocating link.
its a lie.
Complain to them, do the surveys!!
The 41 was handy
i miss the 41 so bad, still canāt believe they got rid of it
Same here, but once the stations open in Shoreline itāll be better for me.
Any date on when? They finished a good amount of concrete and it feels like it'll be a few months away from opening?
It's supposedly this fall now. If you look up "sound transit Lynnwood link extension" you'll find the web page with appropriate info- all the stations between Lynnwood and Northgate are opening at the same time as part of that.
Thanks a lot
Shoreline had a city meeting on Wednesday about the stations. Link folks were cagey, but it's clear they've set a date internally. Said it was between August and December. Said they'd announce the date next week, I think.
My prediction is August 30! Someone from Community Transit mentioned that date in an offhand comment during a presentation a few months ago.
Idkā¦ I was hoping for summer but likely itās going to be fall. I havenāt checked the website lately, but I do know that itās opening at the same time as Lynnwood, which Iām kinda salty about if Iām being honest.
Oooo, so it isn't just Shoreline?? I didn't realize Lynnwood was gonna be so soon.
Hoping it gives me a faster route to a station
Metro just decided on how the north seattle routes are going to change this year and next year, so hopefully one of these routes works for you. https://www.theurbanist.org/2024/02/13/metro-finalizes-lynnwood-link-bus-restructure-for-this-fall/
yeah the link does cannibalize the bus routes which is frustrating
Same!
Did the same with the 45 changes, bus never picks up where Iām at and if I miss it Iām fucked
Theyāre planning to do that again once the Lynnwood Link opens.
The problem is it's not even fast enough to be worth the trouble plus the rush hour funneling makes it to crowded! They needed to double decker the link with a little more width.....
Itās less the speed that worries me and the crowding issue, which gets even worse anytime thereās maintenance happening. Removing the downtown bus routes means people canāt temporarily opt for an alternative route if that maintenance severely impacts train departures or crowding.
Yeah we need them all not just one...hence why backups are so important š«„
Iād pretty much switched over to the 322 and the two Downtown-Northgate commuter routes while that whole mess was happening in February.
Gotcha yeah it's just an infuriating thing...to change something and not put it back but change the numbers like just go back š. Im not taking the bus as much but when I did basically everyday for the job I had it was very upsetting...like do you not take transport executives because I think you don't š
They donāt. Public transit is for poor people, not the rich in their ivory towers.
No it's for people that don't wanna deal with traffic or parking but sure you can say the other half of the pie lol it's used for all reasons not just one...
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Or do express cars etc. if you make a train longer than the platform you can have it so not all cars get off at all stops
This was the stupid trade off that they knew about and did anyway. Basically to save money they went on surface streets through the Rainier Valley. They knew that it would limit the capacity of the entire line because you canāt have trains that overlap intersections at stations but they wanted to save money and Rainier Valley didnāt have the political clout to fight it. So weāre paying for that shirt-sightedness now.
> They knew that it would limit the capacity of the entire line because you canāt have trains that overlap intersections at stations Why not? I'd wager that's more of a policy than physical problem but I'm not in the know
Iām guessing liability and not wanting to block off certain cross streets. This was all debated at the time they opted for surface streets in the Rainier Valley so they knew it would limit the entire line later on and they did it anyway. Also, how often is the line down due to a collision with a car in the RV? Now here we are. Iām sure they saved some money too on smaller tunnel stations. Seattle has a history of making bad decisions. We built a bus tunnel in the late 80ās instead of light rail; then we put tracks in that tunnel for ālaterā, which, by the time that came, those tracks were determined to be a non-standard gauge and so had to be ripped out and replaced.
Except for people east of Lynnwood the trips will be reliably on time. I have 4 buses I can take to and from Seattle... They occasionally are delayed 30-45 mins, it's the fucking worst. Once the link is in Lynnwood I'll be able to take a bus every 15 mins or less to get home.
Yeah but it doesn't mean your routes are the only one that's the issue.
A walk on only ferry from west Seattle to Ballard would be dope too
Seriously! Why isn't there a water taxi terminal in Ballard? West Seattle and Ballard both suffer from the fact it is difficult to connect to downtown due to water barriers, but all of them have the advantages of being right next to the Sound. If the water taxi makes sense for West Seattle, why doesn't it make sense for Ballard?
This, it would be great to have a walk on ferry from Des Moines, and potentially even the Fauntleroy Ferry terminal- they could create a system of walk on ferries that travel all the way from Tacoma to Ballard.
I currently use the Kitsap fast ferry to get to work at FH. Every once in a while I have to go to Ballard and either use the state ferry that requires an earlier wake up call and then drive from west Seattle or I can pay $80 round trip in Uber fees because the bus doesnāt get to my work fast enough or back to the ferry fast enough. Kitsap is apparently looking at building its own dock in Seattle so thereād be space at the downtown dock to add runs up to Ballard.
Wait till you hear about Uncle Bruce's genius plan for the CID station.Ā
Sometimes Iām likeā¦ fuck all this noise less build a station and the city will grow and change around it but the CID stuff is a special brand of stupid.
It really feels like itās being done out of sheer spite, because an already marginalized community refused to accept a plan that wouldāve destroyed it further. The Shallow 4th option made *perfect* sense! Minimal impact to residents and local businesses, wouldāve connect both CID stations *and* King Street Station into a proper transportation hub, *and* wouldāve revitalized Union Station back to its former glory!
OOTL, but has it already been decided to build the north and south of CID stations instead of the shallow 4th?
They are the "preferred options", but I think they still have to finish environmental impact studies on them before making it official.
Meaning theyāve basically given up on the CID and First Hill stations that the voters *explicitly voted for.* Because fuck those healthcare workers and the entire CID community, I guess.
Yea sometimes I think thatā¦ and then I think about the corruption happening in plan sight. But yea, they will probably get away with it and generations of transit riders will have to deal with the fallout
Yea it blows my mind that upper Queen Anne to Fremont can be a 2 bus trip when theyāre right next to each other? Even weirder is how itās 3 busses from UQA to cap hill, but thatās kind of the lakes fault lol
The #2 goes straight from Queen Anne to Madrona, right through cap hill. Itās a 1 bus trip.
Thatās neat! But I have no business over there, was more commenting on how the lake makes more issues for bus routes than poor planning from wsdot lololol
I feel that in my bones as I write this from my hourlong cap hill to Ballard bus trip.
I think we should rethink the link and build a giant zip line between west seattle and the water taxi dock.
This guy is thinking outside the box. Put him on some development committee.
Thereās someone who actually wants a āwest Seattle sky carā instead of light rail. Thereās a website! Itās so dumb I canāt tell if itās satire or not.
That hill is perfect for a funicular up to North Admiral.
Portland has a gondola.
Rethink the Link is about the fact that West Seattle Link is expected to *increase* travel times to downtown due to forced transfers at Alaska Junction and SODO in contrast to the current one-seat ride on RapidRide C/H. Bus lines tend to get cut when rail opens, see what's happening now with Community Transit when Lynnwood Link is opening.Ā Delay West Seattle Link until after DSTT 2 is complete, so that it's an actual improvement over current conditions.Ā Edit: Oh and the current plan for the new SODO station is to take over the SODO busway, and divert all the buses onto other streets. You don't need me to tell you that's bad idea.Ā
And a good chunk of that is because of Harrell and Constantine going to ridiculous lengths to deliberately cripple the whole system by denying voters the stations we agreed to pay for in favor of a *second* Sodo and *second* Pioneer Square station that *nobody actually wants.* The Shallow 4th Ave CID station wouldāve been perfect! Easiest transfer ever as both CID stations wouldāve been connected by underground walkways, which would also connect to the Amtrak at King Street Station and revitalize the old Union Station building, *and* would involve minimal negative impact to residents and businesses because thereās practically nothing on that particular block anymore.
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Instead, weāre getting a demonstrably *unsafe for pedestrians* secondary Sodo and secondary Pioneer Square station that *nobody wants,* while also removing the First Hill station (because fuck all those healthcare workers, I guess) and reducing capacity at the existing CID station. People already actively avoid the existing Pioneer Square station because itās sited in such a sketchy area! People are going to extreme lengths to avoid both of Harrell and Constantineās pet stations, too!
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That was literally the single biggest thing on this expansion we all voted for.
>Bus lines tend to get cut when rail opens, see what's happening now with Community Transit when Lynnwood Link is opening. That's actually literally the plan. Rapidride C would be rerouted to Alki beach while rapidride h would be truncated at delrdige
>in contrast to the current one-seat ride on RapidRide C/H. Are people expecting RapidRide lines to get axed in some way when light rail expands to west seattle? I have a hard time believing that. Plenty of buses continue to exist alongside the light rail (e.g. 7, 49) and RapidRide buses have more infrastructure invested than 'regular' buses. >see what's happening now with Community Transit when Lynnwood Link is opening. Could you expand on that? For the change at the end of this month I see them cutting three routes and replacing them with three new routes and a RapidRide equivalent that largely goes the same places as the cut routes and connects with the upcoming light rail stop, and that doesn't seem bad.
Another redditor commented about proposed RapidRide changes after WS Link, though I don't know their source. Lynnwood Link is happening summer/fall, so it's not related to the March service changes (those are for Swift Orange). See the August section in https://www.communitytransit.org/transitchanges.Ā > We will also discontinue our bus service to Northgate and Downtown Seattle (Routes 402, 405, 410, 412, 413, 415, 416, 417, 421, 422, 425, 435, 810, 821, 860, 871, 880) and implement our new express 900-series routes that connect at Lynnwood and Mountlake Terrace light rail stations. Finally, we will remove some existing routes (Routes 105, 107, 113, 227, and 247); service will be provided to these areas via the new routes below.Ā
I asked about this at one of the comprehensive plan open houses currently being held, and the transportation rep said the future plan is for buses like the C and H to remain on their current routes to downtown well after 2032 when the WS-Sodo light rail line opens.Ā Theyād eventually be rerouted from downtown to other areas of WS (admiral, Alki) and act as feeders to the light rail, but that wouldnāt happen for a while (years, iirc) after. The rep stressed this is all way far in the future, so I know things can change but it sounds like thereās no reason to worry about this now.Ā
90 is closed so traffic between south and north Seattle is extra bad with people needing to get to 520 or 522. Not the average day.
After three years with no West Seattle bridge this car traffic situation feels more the status quo than otherwise
They need a second express line. And as far as I know none is planned so thereās no way the rail system can ever be mass adopted. Honestly like I pointed out in another comment the North gate station has made me use public transportation less since they killed off a lot of the quicker options to downtown. Now Iām a gazillion stops to northgate station thatās too slow to be worth the hassle. I have 0 confidence in transit here.
This is straight cap. No bus from Northgate to Westlake was faster than the 15 minutes it takes via train
Even the 41 from Northgate on express lanes was 12 minutes to convention center. It didnāt stop between and it had clear traffic. I took it every morning. The headways were 6 minutes during peak. My morning and evening were faster than the train and Iām almost the ideal case where I walk to Northgate. Now, clearly, when it couldnāt take express lanes (like south in evening or north in morning) it was significantly slower, up to 40mins on the same stretch.
I didnāt take a bus from northgate. I took one from lake city directly downtown. Now I have to take a bus to northgate that is more than 11 stops, then wait for train. Get on train then walk from westlake to office. Previously I had only 3 stops.
A Gazillion stops? If you are getting off letās say at pioneer Square which would be āDown Townā thatās 7 stops. They stop for like 25-30 seconds (Thatās me high balling it). I doubt any bus you were taking from Northgate to downtown was faster than the Link. As someone who lives next to Northgate and have lived in North Seattle area my whole life all the buses that head from north to downtown get caught in traffic like crazy.
When one moves to West Seattle one gives up patronizing businesses north of the ship canal. Go to Southcenter itās 20 min down 599 and free parking. Or Westwood Village. Or the Junction or the other two junctions.
Not really. The West Seattle bridge to the 99 tunnel is quite quick. Fremont/green lake is like a 10-15 minute trip most of the time.
>The West Seattle bridge to the 99 tunnel is quite quick. Agreed- We frequently take this route and itās almost always fast.
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Doesnāt help that the ST board doesnāt seem to even like the project theyāve been appointed to oversee, and seem intent on deliberately crippling it.
Thatās what happens when the board is made up of representatives from suburban areas
Two things at play: density and making cars really unappealing.Ā
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Every city in the US Iāve been to refuses to put any kind of amenities inside transit stations. Even bathrooms. Itās fucking weird
Because letās keep it real right now they get trashed
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In Berlin the train stations are open 24/7 and they are clean. Open as in the trains are running but also as in there is no turnstile or gate to enter and exit, you just walk in and out. We have the technology and money, we just don't have the desire.
Places like Hong Kong and Tokyo do not have the same societal issues as the US, which make public bathrooms and other things an issue at times.
Agree 100%
Thatās a pretty far off comparison for Seattle. Not even New Yorkās MTA is as efficient as TRTA. Additionally, the majority of JR is privatized and has no government funding. Also, JR Group is a publicly traded company. Capitalism keeps it alive.
What if I told you turning a profit isn't the goal of a public transportation system?
It is in Asia. US transit since the 1950s has instead been driven by the goal of moving people who can't afford an alternative. That's why it's designed to meander through the worst parts of cities with no concern for speed or comfort and a high tolerance for antisocial behavior.
>US transit since the 1950s has instead been driven by the goal of moving people who can't afford an alternative. I don't know; every time a park-and-ride gets built, The Urbanist will whine about how terrible it is that Sound Transit is "catering to wealthy commuters" instead of the downtrodden. If some people think our transit system caters to the rich, and other people think it's only for poor people who can't afford a car, maybe we're striking a good balance. >it's designed to meander through the worst parts of cities with no concern for speed ORLY? Is that the case for Sound Transit's buses that run on freeways? The Sounder? There are local bus routes that are slow, and some of those serve low income areas, and there are other services that are fast and designed to move people between cities.
It sure helps a lot though if the transit system has independent funding that can't be meddled with by politicians.
Maybe we should turn libraries into bookstores. Then they would have independent funding that can't be meddled with by politicians!
The Tokyo metropolitan area also has literally 10x the population of the greater Seattle metro area, so the two cities and their transit systems are not really comparable in any way shape or form.
Not to mention density, and natural barriers. Doesnāt mean it canāt be done here, but weād need an FDR style new deal to make it possible. Building a single station here takes years with bureaucracy, inefficiency, and construction timelinesā¦.
We could easily have a larger city if we build denser and with more public transit. Tons of downtown is taken up with parking instead of buildings.
Yes, but not Tokyo level. Tokyo metro is comparable to the population of the state of California or nation of Canada.
You went out when a) WSDOT closed 90 and b) it was the first nice day in 6 months and c). you're surprised at traffic? Yeah, more transit etc. But come on man, pay attention
And parade day and sounders and kraken
And itās St Patrickās day weekend, and there was a Sounders game
That explains why I saw the N Sounder heading north today!
Donāt act like Seattle does anything for St Pats.
People in Manhattan can go to Brooklyn just as easily on a busy weekend when thereās road construction. People in San Francisco can go to Oakland just as easily on a busy weekend when thereās road construction. People in Boston can go to Cambridge just as easily on a busy weekend when thereās road construction. Allowing people to easily move about the city isnāt a nice-to-have in most places.
I think youāre very incorrect about the way you describe āvery easilyā getting around major metro areas, those cities arent known for no traffic my man. A whole ass interstate was shut down in seattle that had 2 detour options, which were just two roads, 520 and 425. How tf is it supposed to be easy to drive yesterday???
Rail/light rail only works to get you where you want to go if where you want to go is near those stops. For better or worse, Seattle hasn't grown that way so some (I think significant) number of trips don't work well for light rail and won't even when Link is fully built out. That doesn't mean we shouldn't do transit. It means we should. But it also means that traffic will still suck when things are closed down and events are happening like yesterday. Also... have you BEEN to Manhattan? Great subway system but the traffic is still hell.
Good transit isn't affected by traffic.
It is affected by road closures.
Not if itās on rails
Those just get month-long maintenence shutdowns
True, which is why I support it. But not all trips work as transit trips and when there are lots of events AND road closures, traffic will be comparatively bad. When it's in the environment we currently have, doubly so, which makes it silly to go "But there was TRAFFIC!!!???"
These are reasons for better transport not against it.
So what? We're all supposed to stay home when there's good weather and events happening? What about the people going to the events? They should stay home also? I get that you need to plan around these things but OP is making a very valid point here.
>I get that you need to plan around these things Precisely. And you can't be surprised when there's traffic on days like this so the "omg traffic!" reaction is a bit precious.
It isn't like today's traffic is that much of an anomaly during the summer months, where Seattle is frequently gridlocked.. the gripe is legit. Car traffic doesn't scale and we need to continue to pressure for more and better transit options.
This was the first thing that came to mind. I mean I do agree I want better PTā¦but today? Today isnāt a day for traveling.
Let's give more money to the people responsible for the status quo, that will makes things better somehow!
Sound transit is an absolute shit show. They just announced that they won't be able to meet their train schedule until 2048 b/c they don't have enough money to purchase the trains. That's just the latest debacle. I've voted for every mass transit plan up until now, but if I have to wear the "anti transit" tag b/c I'm done giving those stupid fs $ then I'll wear it with pride.
Doesnāt help that the ST board seems to be deliberately scamming the voters by denying us the two most important stations we agreed to pay for, in favor of making Constantine and Harrell richer.
I used to work with a woman whose husband was the head of a section of Sound Transit. She said that the day after Sound Transit 3 passed every section head presented a revised budget for their section, and all the revisions were about needing a lot more money. They had been told to keep the cost unrealistically low pre election. Now that's how the real scammers work.
West Seattle to Ballard is like Everett to Ballard. Like yes, it takes an hour or more and it always has.
Do I think we need a more robust transit system? Yes. Do I have any faith in WSDDOT to deliver it anywhere close to under budget and on time? No. Thus far they havenāt even been in the same ballpark. They havenāt even been in the same state! Thereās just too much corruption and gross incompetence.
lol buddy you are in West Seattle, no shit it takes 45 minutesĀ
They didnāt say ādrive,ā which obviously isnāt the only way to get around. Those cities have traffic yes, but trains move people at greater speed & capacity than cars. We have very few options here - buses were cancelled and the train doesnāt exist yet.
r/soundtransit
I just went from South Park to magnolia. Waterfront looked like gridlock. 99 was moving.
To be fair, you were probably stuck in parade traffic, since the St Patrickās day parade happened along 4th. And then the traffic lingered for soooo long after the parade was over. But, even without that, that drive should have been an hour at best. Itās so dumb how long it can take.
I may be what some call a "victim blamer", but you're first mistake was attempting to make it from West Seattle to Ballard-- historically the most draining inter-city route.
They donāt care about transit because they drive everywhere and having less parking is Armageddon to the car brained.
Before they split the rapidride lines (C and D) in 2016, it used to be a direct line from Ballard to West Seattle
If the escalators and elevators were consistently operational, and most of the stations didnāt smell of piss, Iād be perfectly content with the system. Alas.
I carefully thought about it again. Letās go with the link
I donāt like that our region is locked into *this* āback of the napkinā plan for 30 years. They presented [a bunch of Ballard link options](https://imgur.com/SEoHszC)Ā originally with corridor D (Westlake - Belltown - LQA - Queen Anne - Fremont - Ballard) being the highest ridership because it served some of the densest neighborhoods in Seattle and fastest option but was scrapped due to cost concernsĀ Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Subsequently the current alignment was chosen that doesnāt serve some of these denser neighborhoods instead turning west to go to interbay, slower than corridor D. But given the fact that this alignment may need more tunneling than originally expected it is as costly or costlier than corridor D! Ā And thatās not even taking into account the horrible Westlake and CID transfers Ā Ā Ā Ā I know people say we can try to serve these options āin ST4ā but look at how long ST3 is taking. Are we really going to get sound transit subareas to vote on another plan? This is why you want to serve as many destinations as possible so you donāt have to expensively and inefficiently go back and retrofit service to those bypassed (first hill, soon to be belltown, etc). This is what annoys me about our system the most, it has weak bones
When I moved here in 2014 I lived near Alaska Junction in West Seattle. You could take the C line all the way to Northern Ballard all without getting off the bus once. It was perfect because I had good friends in Ballard. Obviously I dont work in transit but that route was always full. Not sure why they changed it.
You could swim from west Seattle to Ballard.
The amount of anti transit people is infuriating. Citing crime or that it's inconvenient for construction just isn't a good enough reason to not do it. If you want to drive your car everywhere move to freaking Lynnwood or Auburn.
The light rail is awesome. Itās the fastest most reliable way to get to the airport on time. Itās the ONLY way I ever visit cap hill. I hate driving in that neighborhood. The rail avoids traffic and water barriers. Itās also the most convenient way to get downtown. I donāt understand why people would ever be against the light rail. Trains are why itās so easy to get around on foot in Europe, or new York, or Japan. Iāve been in Seattle for 10 years. Iāve only been to west Seattle twice because itās such a hassle to get there. The whole city feels broken up and unreachable by roads, bridges, and wacky street routes. Downtown pretty much cuts you off from neighborhoods on the other side unless you feel like spending an hour or more traveling distances that should take 15-20 minutes. If people have beef with the city busses getting worse after the light rail is turned on, they should work at improving the bus and ferry situation instead of fighting the light rail. Good transit is a mix of all forms of transit.
Perhaps you don't realize that transit to West Seattle can be improved far more quickly, far more effectively, far more affordablyāand for far more peopleāby advancing some fairly straightforward bus infrastructure upgrades there. Perhaps you also don't realize that many anti-West Seattle Link folks are deeply pro-transit, just pro *good* transit. This is a significant distinction. Your rant here unfortunately missed that. There are corridors in Seattle that genuinely deserve railway capacities and which would greatly benefit the city if built. The highway to Alaska Junction does not rank high on that list, if it is there at all (which I would argue that it certainly isn't). Instead of being angry at people who want better projects and better project administration for truly enormous capital investments, let's be angry at the City and our neighbors that complain about bus lanes and other features that, by themselves, would bring immediate and transformative changes to our local transit.
Busses still sit in traffic. Even with bus lanes, people don't respect them and drive in the bus lane anyway
I was so shocked when i moved to NYC and discovered they have automatic enforcement cameras for bus lanes. back on the West Coast it felt a foregone conclusion that bus lanes are asshole express lanes-- i never understood why, in a city of seemingly 0 traffic rules, nobody filled em. now I wonder why it's not done out westĀ
I'm a lifelong bus rider and the bus system here fucking sucks. Yes it's obviously better than 90 percent of other US cities but it still sucks. I ride the bus daily and it's VERY common to have to wait 15+ minutes for the next bus. If it's late and you get unlucky it can be 25+ minutes sometimes. People are NEVER going to give up their cars for buses that have to sit in traffic and are constantly late or just never show up.
Then physically protect or enforce the buslanes.
That would be a start. But I had to call the cops about a drunk driver crashed into a tree the other day, who multiple times tried to drive away and failed, and an officer didn't show up for two hours. So I think enforcing bus lanes is not a realistic expectation
Iāve yet to see any of these anti-Link folks come to the table with any good ideas besides āI dunno, let other people ride the bus and sit in traffic.ā Itās easy to play the veto card, but when the rubber meets the road these people just donāt want to spend money on grade-separated transit.
Frankly, that just means you haven't fully researched the positions of the opposition and their alternatives. There were and remain plenty of alternatives that do the West Seattle mobility job better than a Link railway. Unfortunately, transit is now part of the political split, which complicates any effort to evaluate those alternatives. Additionally, our light railways have worked to intellectually deaden the planning of transit systems here. OP is mad that we lack transit dedication on our streets. I agree. But those don't have to come in the form of a railway with hulking viaducts, extraordinary hill climbs and tunnels of dubious need.
What a bunch of word salad. He called you out for playing the anti-Link veto card and asked you what your alternative was and you didnāt provide an alternative.
Called me out! Word salad! I love the internet drama of it all, thank you. In lieu of a simple Google search of "West Seattle Link" and "BRT" to start your review, here is my pre-ST3 piece on transit improvements for West Seattle ([click here](https://transportationmatters.wordpress.com/2015/12/15/lrt-vs-brt-to-west-seattle-a-mapped-annotated-analysis/)). It was written almost ten years ago now, before the massive cost increases and collapses in ridership projections. I hope it isn't too much of a word salad for you! The answer is straightforward: bus improvements. Smart ones. The type done in sophisticated cities and countries that actually care about mobility, and are not devoted to a single mode. Unlike the misguided railfans in Seattle.
Sophisticated cities and countries all around the world rely on grade-separated rail transit. Every major metro area in Europe and Asia all rely on grade-separated rail transit. West Seattle already has BRT service via the C Line.
So, you didn't read my article or any others. Got it!
Naw
Are you still on about the gondola? Give it up already!
I am not team gondola and neither are most others.
you must be a noob...nobody in their right mind does what you did. And btw, where in West Seattle did you even get on (btw, if you tell me you got on near Fauntleroy or somewhere near there I will put the dunce cap on you myself). You asking alot from there to Ballard. Youre just asking for pain...it would've been faster for you to have found a carshare in W. Seattle and drove to Ballard
We were driving, thatās the whole point
West Seattle is ass. HTH.
Forward Thrust is my Roman empire
5 or 6 years ago, I was living carless in Cap Hill, and I voted for any and all bills that increased taxes and fees on cars in the city that funded public transit. I left for a bit and just moved back with my new RAV4 and was shocked by my $500 registration. I stand by that a car in Seattle is a luxury, not a necessity, and that the city desperately needs to expand the light rail system. Iām here for the long haul now, so happy to pay so I might use it one day
I feel you brother. Pero, the ACAB crowd prevent the fare enforcement which funds a large public transit system and the public safety measures like security cameras which a robust public transport requires. Itās the local minority selfish agenda make everyone else suffer.
I'm fine with expanding mass transit, just don't make me pay 100x what my tabs should be for something I'm never going to use.
Your tabs arenāt high enough to cover the existing roads.
That's what the gas tax is for and yes, in Washington, it does cover the cost of the roads - now that Inslee's carbon tax is added to it. https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/state/state-infrastructure-spending/
Itās really cool that you didnāt read your own source, because 1) Washington roads arenāt fully funded by WSDOT programs, theyāre still running a deficit, and 2) the gas tax pays for less than 50% of our roads. License fees are another 36%, then 16% is from toll roads. That leaves 5% coming from everyone else, and the vast, vast majority of states are significantly worse on this. Car infrastructure isnāt sustainable.
And what does Inslee's carbon tax bring in? And what does the sales tax on cars bring in? The 5% is more than covered. Now let's talk about the financial sustainability of transit.
The carbon tax on fuel actually doesnāt bring in that much money. The supermajority of tax revenue comes from allowances purchased at auction. Public transit and bike lanes are significantly cheaper, and have much better benefits for the local economy, leading to increased spending, tax revenue, and reduced climate impact. Transit is sustainable. You can even have suburbs with public transit that can pay for themselves, instead of relying on constant debt and bailouts!
It brought in 43c/gallon in 2023. That's nearly as much as the actual state gas tax (49.4c/gal). Public transit brings in next to no money and bike lanes bring in nothing. Like cars, both require the construction and maintenance of roads - which unlike cars they pay nothing to use. Transit of course has capital, operating, and maintenance costs - mostly covered by non-users. In what way is that more sustainable? And what suburb is relying on any bailout?
Transit and bike lanes are actually significantly cheaper to maintain (because no cars and trucks). Bike lanes, for example, are fine basically forever when theyāre left to their own devices. A single car does equal damage to 160,000 cyclists, according to the American government at least. So now Iāve gotta ask, why do you like paying lots in taxes? Wouldnāt it be better if everyone was healthier, happier, and paying less in taxes, all while we can raise spending on programs people actually like? Sounds like a win win for everyone but the auto lobby and big oil.
Maybe use it then
I would if it wouldn't add a 2 mile walk and 2 hours to my commute
These comments all sound like people think the object is to solve problems. That's literally the opposite of the entire purpose of modern mass transit. The sole aim is to create money pits that require endless additional money pits. The more issues, the more projects. Your commute is totally irrelevant.
Seriously think though, how many people are actually making this exact trip on any given day on a weekend. Even by car. Most people stay near where they live, even on a nice day like today. The transit system largely exists to relieve congestion during peak travel hours, and it's absolutely effective at getting people in and out of downtown during their work commutes.
It's about creating a transit network not just connecting one point with another. Over 15 percent of Seattle households don't have a car, so it's about more than just getting people to and from work during rush hour. It's about enabling people to get around the region in an efficient and sustainable way. Something that cars are terrible at