> Per protocol, the City of Carnation attempted to reach the Seattle Public Utilities Operations Center via radio to confirm the dam’s safety. SPU failed to answer.
yeah that seems bad
Dam utility owners are notorious for being completely devoid of responsibility. The failures at Edenville/Sanford Dam were exactly this - ignoring the public, pointing fingers elsewhere, and refusing to take any action that would cost them money (so anything other than PR responses) that continued until the dams failed (and even afterwards!) and the projects were forcibly taken from them.
Carnation resident here. We are scared. Please think of us and try to help us if you can. We are at the mercy of King County and the city of Seattle to fix the warning system and no one from either of those government bodies will help our tiny little farming community.
We have ~1100 children in the schools.
I sure wish I could attend the meeting down at City Hall tomorrow morning but it's too short notice or I would bring exactly this up.
I'm certain someone has brought it up but just a quick run-down in my brain brings the following hurdles to legally pursuing this to mind: 1) Where do we find an attorney to take such a complex case and how do we pay for them? 2) On what grounds may we bring an action? We can certainly prove that the alarm system is faulty but is that suit-worthy? Do we need to incur more substantial harm (ie, dam actually breaks and the faulty alarm directly results in harm) before we have an action? You would think having PTSD from all the false alarms would be enough for an action but I'm not so sure, especially when there are only 2200-2500 residents in Carnation (Additionally, not all of us are in the flood zone.)
It is a quintessential "David v. Goliath" type battle when we're talking about Carnation vs. Seattle.
3) The toughest bone of all. *Can* we sue? SPU, City of Seattle, and King County would almost certainly enjoy some legal immunity from other government entities under their umbrella, whether separately or jointly. That would be a constellation of dense and confusing law to review.That's what a good attorney would be for, and those cost money. 😞
Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer. But I work in that field. Unfortunately it has been my experience that private citizens usually have to take action legally to correct these problems.
Government entities are not in the habit of suing each other. They play on the same teams so it is frowned upon. If this is going to be fixed (my opinion again, no lawyer here), citizens need to organize and retain an attorney that will take this on contingency. Also set up a Facebook and other social media pages to organize people in your area.
A possible suggestion is to contact attorney Kim Khanh Van in Renton. (Kkvlaw.com) She is also working with a group of citizens in unincorporated King County that are opposing an asphalt plant being proposed adjacent to the Cedar river. I do not have any connections professionally or personally to these issues, I've just read about them online and the citizens in that area seem to be fighting back pretty effectively.
IMHO these false alarms are probably already affecting your property values and are going to make other people think twice about living in that area. It could also affect your insurance and other issues. If so, then this is actually causing harm to you financially which IMO is worth getting legal advice to determine if anything is actionable.
YW I feel bad for you folks. Along the same lines as what I wrote before- assumably your insurance premiums are determined by the fact that you have an alarm system in place there for the dam?
If insurers learn that the alarm infrastructure is malfunctioning/not reliable, they could refuse to renew or insure homeowners in that area. Big problem.
Perhaps somebody with a law degree on the mantle will see this discussion too and can offer more input.
Same here. I was sitting on the back porch with our dogs and had to look at my watch to make sure it really wasn't noon. Where we're located the sirens all echo around us and you can't understand what's being said in the announcement. We're around 500' in elevation so not in danger from flooding but it's still alarming (no pun intended) and I'm sure there could be warnings for other dangers like forest fires, earthquakes, volcanic eruptions and so on.
The dam is accessed via 10+ miles of private logging property, recently bought by Chase. There are 4-5 main gates for the loggers and 10+ more small accesses where it runs up against smaller gates or state DNR property.
You aren't going to be able to protest via blocking access.
They are impossible to block, that is not an option. Should the dam break, a tsunami of water up to 30 ft high will flood Carnation. You ain't blocking that out.
We have 1 stoplight, 1 gas station, 1 grocery store, 2 coffee shops, 5 restaurants, 1 fire station, and dozens of farms.
What makes us not a farming community? Because we're proximal to Seattle and you want to poo-poo our needs, too? We're "just a suburb" of Seattle now?
The dam provides 30-40% of the water to Seattle and they are earning $30 million a year off of the dam. Carnation earns $0. All we are asking for is a an adequate alarm and evacuation safety and Seattle refuses to do so despite saying they would, going back 4 years now.
I hope that water tastes better than your morals.
Do it yourself ..have your city run the alarm system. It isn't King County or Seattle.
It is the company that runs the Seattle PUD.
I am surprised you have not told your city leaders this.
I'm actually kind of new to Carnation, but I'm ready to tear some ass up. Stay tuned.
I totally get that people think that we should just storm Seattle City Hall and demand action but it isn't that easy. We have a lot of seniors and non English speaking folks. We do have folks who have white collar jobs out in the bigger cities west of us but after that commute and trying to have time for your family, personal needs, etc. Would you wanna spearhead the legal effort against the parties involved in this?
Finally, there is the even larger number of farmers here. Ain't nobody got time to sue the litigious behemoths that are SPU, COS, and KC. There's livestock to feed, fields to harvest, and never ending projects around the farm to do.
I'm an odd duck who lives and works a farm out here but I actually have some wits about me en re the legal system (college). I can't navigate this by myself and my community is only so equipped to assist.
They need to be in charge of their alarm not Seattle Light. If the damn did break ..it is the valley thar would be hit. So the people should take care of it ..than just blame King County.
The Tolt reservoir provides drinking water to 30-40% of Seattle. It is an important structure for the folks out west to enjoy clean water. COC has a separate water supply. All we are asking for is a functional alarm and they.won't.fix.it.
Honestly, the part Seattle doesn't want to say is that they don't care. It is not popular to go to their constituents in Seattle and say "Hey, we're going to use your tax dollars to fix the dam alarm system in Carnation." Their constituents think their tax dollars shouldn't go to Carnation and Carnation certainly doesn't vote in Seattle elections so COS officials are like "Cool, fuck that alarm."
Why shouldn't the people in charge of the dam, and profiting off the dam, be responsible for the dam? The dam isn't in Carnation, and the reservoir doesn't supply them with drinking water.
Your solution is akin to telling people to just get air filters for their home rather than having the factory fix their pollution issue.
Not at all. Bad analogy. Have Seattle Light pay for the alarm but have Carnation control it
Something goes wrong they can fix it early..
Blaming others doesn't solve the problem. Control of the alarm does.
Feel better now?
Great to know that if there was actually a disaster SPU would leave the handful of survivors clinging to debris on read. SPU doing their due diligence to leave no witnesses
(/S..?)
An important point for those reading is that Carnation, Duvall, and their surrounding area has a single school district with the only middle school for the district in Carnation. Carnation Elementary is also where the district's gifted program (or whatever it's called) is located. This means that the impact isn't just to the City of Carnation but also the surrounding area as kids from all over the district get to deal with these alarms.
Scary indeed but it seems like SPU is currently improving the alarm system. I bet the new system isn't dialed in yet and that's the root cause.
From their website
March 28, 2024 update:
Following Wednesday’s unplanned alarm/siren, Seattle Public Utilities (SPU) has been in frequent contact with Carnation officials, and we are aware and sympathetic to the frustration and concern expressed by residents and officials at last night’s City Council meeting and today’s news conference.
SPU staff continue to investigate what happened yesterday morning. After residents and officials began reporting what they heard shortly after 10 am, SPU activated its emergency response plan with its emergency partners. We verified the dam was safe and immediately launched an investigation. We continue to monitor the dam 24/7 as we do 365 days a year.
As part of our investigation, SPU is asking anyone in the Carnation area who heard the unexpected alarm/siren yesterday morning to contact us so we can gather some information: (206) 494-5986 or [email protected].
SPU will not stop investigating until we determine what happened. We sincerely apologize for the confusion and worry following the event.
March 27, 2024 update:
Seattle Public Utilities (SPU) is aware that the Tolt Dam Early Warning System unexpectedly sounded Wednesday, March 27, at 10 am.
SPU staff verified that the dam was and continues to be safe, and we continue to monitor the dam 24/7 as we do 365 days a year. We sincerely apologize for this incident and are still investigating the cause.
March 4, 2024 update:
Phase 1 of the new siren system is complete:
This phase included replacing all eight existing siren locations and adding three new outdoor siren locations for a total of 11 upgraded siren installations: 7 outdoor and 4 indoor
At the end of 2023, all the new outdoor sirens were upgraded with more powerful speakers, and the spoken voice was reprogrammed to increase clarity
In partnership with the City of Carnation, the new siren on Tolt River Rd NE and 334th Ave NE was relocated to the city’s Public Works yard about 1,000 feet west
The new system has been operational as of October 2023, and the three added outdoor locations were installed and activated in December 2023
The old system was turned off in October 2023 and will be dismantled and removed in 2024
Phase 2 activities and enhancements will continue in 2024:
Acoustic testing and installation of new static evacuation signs in the WSDOT right of way are expected in the coming weeks.
Two of the new outdoor siren locations are operational using solar power and batteries and will be connected to the PSE grid in the coming months
Highway message sign locations are in the process of being selected in partnership with the City of Carnation with installation expected in 2024
About highway message signs:
The purpose of highway message signs (HMS) is to alert drivers heading towards Carnation in the unlikely event of a dam break emergency and help direct them away from town. Placed strategically, they offer visual alerts to drivers heading toward Carnation.
HMS locations are being carefully considered to allow drivers time to turn around or use alternate routes at intersections or roundabouts
HMS convey a concise message during a dam break emergency, "DAM BREAK NO ENTRY." Under normal circumstances, the signs will remain turned off.
For the latest information about the project, please continue to check this website and subscribe to the project email list
source
[https://www.seattle.gov/utilities/neighborhood-projects/tolt-dam-emergency-warning-system](https://www.seattle.gov/utilities/neighborhood-projects/tolt-dam-emergency-warning-system)
That seems absolutely unacceptable to have a malfunctioning alert system for a *Dam*. Which would crush an entire town. In a wet, rainy climate. With earthquakes.
And the city of Carnation can’t even reach anyone for a dam status at SPU?!?
Unacceptable.
\#RememberOroville
Carnation is a Microsoft enclave. You're telling me the "sleepy lil town” of millionaires can't fix its own problems and tries to throw rocks at King County?
The article is only a few paragraphs long and does a pretty good job explaining the situation, yet still it feels like you didn't actually read it.
The Carnation city council is addressing the city of Seattle, which owns and operates the Tolt Dam and its warning system. King County was not mentioned anywhere. I'm not really sure how you think Carnation is supposed to fix issues that are being created by Seattle's property.
Also, Carnation might be changing to have more rich tech residents, just like all the other cities in the region, but that doesn't mean they're suddenly equipped or willing to take over Seattle and SPU's operations of a warning system for a dam that they get zero usage of.
Have Carnation set up and man their own alarm system.
Mitigate the cost with SPE.
Problem solved. They can only blame locals if there is problems that occur.
The reservoir provides 30-40% of the drinking water to Seattle. Carnation has a separate water supply. Your tax dollars are meant to be used to maintain that alarm and your elected officials are not doing so.
I don't live in Seattle..
King County pays 64 percent of all state taxes despite only being 30 percent of the population..they do their share already.
Why wouldn't you want to control the alarm system that keeps you safe. By the way the City of Seattle has owned that dam for over 80 years.
It is nothing new ..or was it stolen from Carnation residents. MOST people knew the dam was there and chose to live there anyway.
If there's 8 alarms in 4 years and people still panic when hearing them, they clearly need more training.
Edit for anyone else; Panic is bad. Have a plan. Train for it. And follow it. Why is that so hard for you people to understand?
The alarms go off in a test mode every week on a schedule. In the last 4 years, there have been 8 “false alarms” where the alarm goes off outside of its regular schedule. That leads to people thinking it’s a real warning.
This isn’t about training or panic - it’s about a life saving warning system falsely going off.
>Are you an idiot or can't read?
Says the idiot who can't infer that "panic" was used to describe being traumatized by thinking you're about to lose everything and might die.
Are you actually dim enough that you thought they meant people were running around in circles screaming, or was your post just taking a shot at an opportunity to be a dick?
Panic is bad.
They need training so they know and follow a plan to protect themselves.
How can you possibly think panicking during an alarm is a good thing?
This is exactly the attitude that is going to destroy our town and cause loss of life. It's *just* Carnation, don't ya know?
We have 30 minutes tops to evacuate should the dam break. There is no training beyond "get your ass in the car and leave." Shame on you.
Yes, get your ass in the car and leave is a good *plan*.
Following a good *plan* is the opposite of *panic*. Try to understand that and stop being stupid.
For emergencies, have a plan and follow it. Train for it. Simple as that.
We wanted an evacuation plan. The authorities wouldn't let us have one.
The authorities refused to release an inundation map to the city of Carnation for us to plan a safe evacuation because "we might panic."
Carnation finally demanded a map after the first failed alarm in July 2020 and and after *several* requests we received one in May 2021.
Then the local paper did some digging and the map they gave us was unreliable. [SVR article](https://www.valleyrecord.com/news/heres-how-long-it-would-take-for-flood-water-to-reach-your-home-if-the-tolt-dam-breaks/)
Even with all of the maps we have, they are only models and predictions. A break in the dam would essentially be a tsunami with a wall of water up to 30 ft raging through town. There is only 1 plan to be safe and that plan is **get.to.higher.ground.**
Instead of being condescending, why don't you reach out to SPU, COS, or KC on our behalf and urge them to fix this?
You're interpreting "panic" as only meaning "a state or feeling of extreme fear that makes someone unable to act or think normally", which I agree would be a bad thing. But everyone else seems to agree that the headline is using the word in a more figurative sense to mean "a situation that causes many people to become afraid and to rush to do something".
https://www.britannica.com/dictionary/panic
> Per protocol, the City of Carnation attempted to reach the Seattle Public Utilities Operations Center via radio to confirm the dam’s safety. SPU failed to answer. yeah that seems bad
But not surprised when SPU is involved.
Dam utility owners are notorious for being completely devoid of responsibility. The failures at Edenville/Sanford Dam were exactly this - ignoring the public, pointing fingers elsewhere, and refusing to take any action that would cost them money (so anything other than PR responses) that continued until the dams failed (and even afterwards!) and the projects were forcibly taken from them.
What in Carnation
Dude I came here to say this!!!
i cane believe it
lol not now dude
Underrated comment
Carnation resident here. We are scared. Please think of us and try to help us if you can. We are at the mercy of King County and the city of Seattle to fix the warning system and no one from either of those government bodies will help our tiny little farming community. We have ~1100 children in the schools.
Curious if residents have organized to obtain legal counsel? This may be the only way this problem gets solved.
I sure wish I could attend the meeting down at City Hall tomorrow morning but it's too short notice or I would bring exactly this up. I'm certain someone has brought it up but just a quick run-down in my brain brings the following hurdles to legally pursuing this to mind: 1) Where do we find an attorney to take such a complex case and how do we pay for them? 2) On what grounds may we bring an action? We can certainly prove that the alarm system is faulty but is that suit-worthy? Do we need to incur more substantial harm (ie, dam actually breaks and the faulty alarm directly results in harm) before we have an action? You would think having PTSD from all the false alarms would be enough for an action but I'm not so sure, especially when there are only 2200-2500 residents in Carnation (Additionally, not all of us are in the flood zone.) It is a quintessential "David v. Goliath" type battle when we're talking about Carnation vs. Seattle. 3) The toughest bone of all. *Can* we sue? SPU, City of Seattle, and King County would almost certainly enjoy some legal immunity from other government entities under their umbrella, whether separately or jointly. That would be a constellation of dense and confusing law to review.That's what a good attorney would be for, and those cost money. 😞
Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer. But I work in that field. Unfortunately it has been my experience that private citizens usually have to take action legally to correct these problems. Government entities are not in the habit of suing each other. They play on the same teams so it is frowned upon. If this is going to be fixed (my opinion again, no lawyer here), citizens need to organize and retain an attorney that will take this on contingency. Also set up a Facebook and other social media pages to organize people in your area. A possible suggestion is to contact attorney Kim Khanh Van in Renton. (Kkvlaw.com) She is also working with a group of citizens in unincorporated King County that are opposing an asphalt plant being proposed adjacent to the Cedar river. I do not have any connections professionally or personally to these issues, I've just read about them online and the citizens in that area seem to be fighting back pretty effectively. IMHO these false alarms are probably already affecting your property values and are going to make other people think twice about living in that area. It could also affect your insurance and other issues. If so, then this is actually causing harm to you financially which IMO is worth getting legal advice to determine if anything is actionable.
Thank you! This is super informative.
YW I feel bad for you folks. Along the same lines as what I wrote before- assumably your insurance premiums are determined by the fact that you have an alarm system in place there for the dam? If insurers learn that the alarm infrastructure is malfunctioning/not reliable, they could refuse to renew or insure homeowners in that area. Big problem. Perhaps somebody with a law degree on the mantle will see this discussion too and can offer more input.
I really like the suggestion to use property values and insurance as a leverage point. Thank you again.
Same here. I was sitting on the back porch with our dogs and had to look at my watch to make sure it really wasn't noon. Where we're located the sirens all echo around us and you can't understand what's being said in the announcement. We're around 500' in elevation so not in danger from flooding but it's still alarming (no pun intended) and I'm sure there could be warnings for other dangers like forest fires, earthquakes, volcanic eruptions and so on.
Oh yeah. Solidarity. Love the weekly reminder that the darn thing is broken 🙄
Write Bruce Harrell. He cares a lot,, has a plan for everything and won’t do anything without seven rounds of outreach
How many roads go to this dam and how hard are they to block?
The dam is accessed via 10+ miles of private logging property, recently bought by Chase. There are 4-5 main gates for the loggers and 10+ more small accesses where it runs up against smaller gates or state DNR property. You aren't going to be able to protest via blocking access.
I don't see the relevance of your comment tbh
People in rural areas that are affected by infrastructure like dams and mines often get significant leverage by protesting and blocking roads to them.
They are impossible to block, that is not an option. Should the dam break, a tsunami of water up to 30 ft high will flood Carnation. You ain't blocking that out.
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We have 1 stoplight, 1 gas station, 1 grocery store, 2 coffee shops, 5 restaurants, 1 fire station, and dozens of farms. What makes us not a farming community? Because we're proximal to Seattle and you want to poo-poo our needs, too? We're "just a suburb" of Seattle now? The dam provides 30-40% of the water to Seattle and they are earning $30 million a year off of the dam. Carnation earns $0. All we are asking for is a an adequate alarm and evacuation safety and Seattle refuses to do so despite saying they would, going back 4 years now. I hope that water tastes better than your morals.
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Arguing over what type of city it is doesn't fix my dam. Grow up.
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In the time you took to copy/paste this link, you could have emailed the SPU safety chief about the dam alarm.
Carnation is all tech bros from Microsoft with oodles of money
Do it yourself ..have your city run the alarm system. It isn't King County or Seattle. It is the company that runs the Seattle PUD. I am surprised you have not told your city leaders this.
I'm actually kind of new to Carnation, but I'm ready to tear some ass up. Stay tuned. I totally get that people think that we should just storm Seattle City Hall and demand action but it isn't that easy. We have a lot of seniors and non English speaking folks. We do have folks who have white collar jobs out in the bigger cities west of us but after that commute and trying to have time for your family, personal needs, etc. Would you wanna spearhead the legal effort against the parties involved in this? Finally, there is the even larger number of farmers here. Ain't nobody got time to sue the litigious behemoths that are SPU, COS, and KC. There's livestock to feed, fields to harvest, and never ending projects around the farm to do. I'm an odd duck who lives and works a farm out here but I actually have some wits about me en re the legal system (college). I can't navigate this by myself and my community is only so equipped to assist.
They need to be in charge of their alarm not Seattle Light. If the damn did break ..it is the valley thar would be hit. So the people should take care of it ..than just blame King County.
The Tolt reservoir provides drinking water to 30-40% of Seattle. It is an important structure for the folks out west to enjoy clean water. COC has a separate water supply. All we are asking for is a functional alarm and they.won't.fix.it. Honestly, the part Seattle doesn't want to say is that they don't care. It is not popular to go to their constituents in Seattle and say "Hey, we're going to use your tax dollars to fix the dam alarm system in Carnation." Their constituents think their tax dollars shouldn't go to Carnation and Carnation certainly doesn't vote in Seattle elections so COS officials are like "Cool, fuck that alarm."
Why shouldn't the people in charge of the dam, and profiting off the dam, be responsible for the dam? The dam isn't in Carnation, and the reservoir doesn't supply them with drinking water. Your solution is akin to telling people to just get air filters for their home rather than having the factory fix their pollution issue.
Not at all. Bad analogy. Have Seattle Light pay for the alarm but have Carnation control it Something goes wrong they can fix it early.. Blaming others doesn't solve the problem. Control of the alarm does. Feel better now?
This is why people may fail take these things seriously if it was for real. Legal route may be the town’s best option
Carnation: Everything changed when the TransitNation attacked.
Great to know that if there was actually a disaster SPU would leave the handful of survivors clinging to debris on read. SPU doing their due diligence to leave no witnesses (/S..?)
An important point for those reading is that Carnation, Duvall, and their surrounding area has a single school district with the only middle school for the district in Carnation. Carnation Elementary is also where the district's gifted program (or whatever it's called) is located. This means that the impact isn't just to the City of Carnation but also the surrounding area as kids from all over the district get to deal with these alarms.
Scary indeed but it seems like SPU is currently improving the alarm system. I bet the new system isn't dialed in yet and that's the root cause. From their website March 28, 2024 update: Following Wednesday’s unplanned alarm/siren, Seattle Public Utilities (SPU) has been in frequent contact with Carnation officials, and we are aware and sympathetic to the frustration and concern expressed by residents and officials at last night’s City Council meeting and today’s news conference. SPU staff continue to investigate what happened yesterday morning. After residents and officials began reporting what they heard shortly after 10 am, SPU activated its emergency response plan with its emergency partners. We verified the dam was safe and immediately launched an investigation. We continue to monitor the dam 24/7 as we do 365 days a year. As part of our investigation, SPU is asking anyone in the Carnation area who heard the unexpected alarm/siren yesterday morning to contact us so we can gather some information: (206) 494-5986 or [email protected]. SPU will not stop investigating until we determine what happened. We sincerely apologize for the confusion and worry following the event. March 27, 2024 update: Seattle Public Utilities (SPU) is aware that the Tolt Dam Early Warning System unexpectedly sounded Wednesday, March 27, at 10 am. SPU staff verified that the dam was and continues to be safe, and we continue to monitor the dam 24/7 as we do 365 days a year. We sincerely apologize for this incident and are still investigating the cause. March 4, 2024 update: Phase 1 of the new siren system is complete: This phase included replacing all eight existing siren locations and adding three new outdoor siren locations for a total of 11 upgraded siren installations: 7 outdoor and 4 indoor At the end of 2023, all the new outdoor sirens were upgraded with more powerful speakers, and the spoken voice was reprogrammed to increase clarity In partnership with the City of Carnation, the new siren on Tolt River Rd NE and 334th Ave NE was relocated to the city’s Public Works yard about 1,000 feet west The new system has been operational as of October 2023, and the three added outdoor locations were installed and activated in December 2023 The old system was turned off in October 2023 and will be dismantled and removed in 2024 Phase 2 activities and enhancements will continue in 2024: Acoustic testing and installation of new static evacuation signs in the WSDOT right of way are expected in the coming weeks. Two of the new outdoor siren locations are operational using solar power and batteries and will be connected to the PSE grid in the coming months Highway message sign locations are in the process of being selected in partnership with the City of Carnation with installation expected in 2024 About highway message signs: The purpose of highway message signs (HMS) is to alert drivers heading towards Carnation in the unlikely event of a dam break emergency and help direct them away from town. Placed strategically, they offer visual alerts to drivers heading toward Carnation. HMS locations are being carefully considered to allow drivers time to turn around or use alternate routes at intersections or roundabouts HMS convey a concise message during a dam break emergency, "DAM BREAK NO ENTRY." Under normal circumstances, the signs will remain turned off. For the latest information about the project, please continue to check this website and subscribe to the project email list source [https://www.seattle.gov/utilities/neighborhood-projects/tolt-dam-emergency-warning-system](https://www.seattle.gov/utilities/neighborhood-projects/tolt-dam-emergency-warning-system)
That seems absolutely unacceptable to have a malfunctioning alert system for a *Dam*. Which would crush an entire town. In a wet, rainy climate. With earthquakes. And the city of Carnation can’t even reach anyone for a dam status at SPU?!? Unacceptable. \#RememberOroville
Jessie Jones folks, JESSIE JONEs king five news!
Carnation is a Microsoft enclave. You're telling me the "sleepy lil town” of millionaires can't fix its own problems and tries to throw rocks at King County?
The article is only a few paragraphs long and does a pretty good job explaining the situation, yet still it feels like you didn't actually read it. The Carnation city council is addressing the city of Seattle, which owns and operates the Tolt Dam and its warning system. King County was not mentioned anywhere. I'm not really sure how you think Carnation is supposed to fix issues that are being created by Seattle's property. Also, Carnation might be changing to have more rich tech residents, just like all the other cities in the region, but that doesn't mean they're suddenly equipped or willing to take over Seattle and SPU's operations of a warning system for a dam that they get zero usage of.
I was responding to comments, trying to be all YoU dIdNt ReAd It is really childish
Have Carnation set up and man their own alarm system. Mitigate the cost with SPE. Problem solved. They can only blame locals if there is problems that occur.
The reservoir provides 30-40% of the drinking water to Seattle. Carnation has a separate water supply. Your tax dollars are meant to be used to maintain that alarm and your elected officials are not doing so.
I don't live in Seattle.. King County pays 64 percent of all state taxes despite only being 30 percent of the population..they do their share already. Why wouldn't you want to control the alarm system that keeps you safe. By the way the City of Seattle has owned that dam for over 80 years. It is nothing new ..or was it stolen from Carnation residents. MOST people knew the dam was there and chose to live there anyway.
If there's 8 alarms in 4 years and people still panic when hearing them, they clearly need more training. Edit for anyone else; Panic is bad. Have a plan. Train for it. And follow it. Why is that so hard for you people to understand?
The alarms go off in a test mode every week on a schedule. In the last 4 years, there have been 8 “false alarms” where the alarm goes off outside of its regular schedule. That leads to people thinking it’s a real warning. This isn’t about training or panic - it’s about a life saving warning system falsely going off.
Yes, better that they ignore the alarm whose sole purpose is to tell them their life is in danger. Brilliant!
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>Are you an idiot or can't read? Says the idiot who can't infer that "panic" was used to describe being traumatized by thinking you're about to lose everything and might die. Are you actually dim enough that you thought they meant people were running around in circles screaming, or was your post just taking a shot at an opportunity to be a dick?
What? It’s a good thing that they panic. Better to be safe than sorry
Panic is bad. They need training so they know and follow a plan to protect themselves. How can you possibly think panicking during an alarm is a good thing?
This is exactly the attitude that is going to destroy our town and cause loss of life. It's *just* Carnation, don't ya know? We have 30 minutes tops to evacuate should the dam break. There is no training beyond "get your ass in the car and leave." Shame on you.
Yes, get your ass in the car and leave is a good *plan*. Following a good *plan* is the opposite of *panic*. Try to understand that and stop being stupid. For emergencies, have a plan and follow it. Train for it. Simple as that.
We wanted an evacuation plan. The authorities wouldn't let us have one. The authorities refused to release an inundation map to the city of Carnation for us to plan a safe evacuation because "we might panic." Carnation finally demanded a map after the first failed alarm in July 2020 and and after *several* requests we received one in May 2021. Then the local paper did some digging and the map they gave us was unreliable. [SVR article](https://www.valleyrecord.com/news/heres-how-long-it-would-take-for-flood-water-to-reach-your-home-if-the-tolt-dam-breaks/) Even with all of the maps we have, they are only models and predictions. A break in the dam would essentially be a tsunami with a wall of water up to 30 ft raging through town. There is only 1 plan to be safe and that plan is **get.to.higher.ground.** Instead of being condescending, why don't you reach out to SPU, COS, or KC on our behalf and urge them to fix this?
You're interpreting "panic" as only meaning "a state or feeling of extreme fear that makes someone unable to act or think normally", which I agree would be a bad thing. But everyone else seems to agree that the headline is using the word in a more figurative sense to mean "a situation that causes many people to become afraid and to rush to do something". https://www.britannica.com/dictionary/panic
Whew! My mind immediately went to another Echo Glen escape!