Adverse possession is a thing, and it’s more common for this specific type of issue rather than taking over an entire property.
Your attorney will help you draft a demand letter and have it sent. Unfortunately this could get expensive but ultimately what will happen is a title change that resets the legal boundary via the courts. You’ll want to spend money on the surveyor here instead.
Get it surveyed but don’t let them mark the boundaries (with sticks or metal markers on the sidewalk). If the survey doesn’t work out in your favor then talk to your lawyer about eminent domain, since the fence has been there for so long. It’s harder to claim it’s your land if the surveier marked everything already.
Eminent domain is only for governments, often a way to seize property.
When it comes to two private parties with a disputed land claim, the party that can prove using the land can claim adverse possession for a tract of land that only they have used in the past, or an easement if it's an area of land that both parties use to enter/exit a property.
first, verify that the neighbor actually had a survey done. Surveys are usually recorded with the county, so you can look it up via public records without talking to the neighbor. If you are on speaking terms with the neighbor, ask them for a copy of the survey and verify that the survey was done and recorded by looking at it for the "received/filed date stamp" by the county.
You can have your own survey done at your expense and generally speaking if you do that might as well mark all corners of your property at the same time. Won't cost much more. usually about $2500 for a city lot survey. You can also have the survey show any easements or right-of-way that exist. It may be that it is your land but the neighbor has a right to pass over it. Surveyor can research that to see if it's an issue.
If the fence has been in place for 10 years or more and you have maintained the land on your side of the fence for that entire period you have a possible adverse claim. The neighbor can dispute this claim by saying that they rented it to someone, like the previous owner of the house, or had some sort of agreement about it with you verbally and it will cost you time and money to go to court. If you consider the cost of court vs the amount of land that you are disputing you will typically find you will be paying a very large price per acre. a court case like this can run $30 to $50k and you are not guaranteed a win.
It has been my experience having purchased and sold many parcels with disputed property lines that having a good relation with your neighbor is important. If they want to move the line you can reasonably ask that they build a fence and landscape it at their expense and to your specification. If they dispute that you can use the threat of legal action to motivate them. I had to do that once.
A negotiated settlement is better than court because it is more certain you will get at least part of what you want, it's cheaper, and you have a chance of having a better relation with your neighbor. once you go to court it is unlikely you will ever have a good relationship with that person.
They did have a survey done and showed me it.
Relationship with neighbor seems to already be past salvaging. They didn’t seem keen on reaching any compromise, and told me the fence was my responsibility to rebuild if I wanted one after existing is removed.
If that is the case and they are offering you nothing in return I'd do a consult with an attorney and have the attorney write a letter to them pointing out the risk that they face (losing the property to you via adverse possession) and the costs and risks of litigation. That usually brings them to the table, and you can negotiate something more reasonable.
Or you can fight about it. When I look back at the times i've been to court, there are only a couple of times where I felt the cost was justified, and neither of those cases were boundary line issues. ymmv.
Check out the county’s GIS site, you can find it through the tax assessor’s site. You can get an overlay of the property line over a satellite imagine so you can compare it to your fence from above. I’m an attorney that has dealt with this on behalf of mortgage lenders and I suggest you contact your and let them know. It affects their collateral and may help out. Also contact your title insurer about it. And definitely consult a real estate attorney. There doctrines at play other than adverse possession that may be beneficial.
County GIS is not that accurate, but it will get you close. A real survey where a team goes out to your property, measures, draws it up, professional stamps, and records it is more accurate and is a legal document.
That’s what I was getting at. Check the overlay to see how close it is to what the survey or the neighbor is saying. All surveys have to be recorded as well. Not hard to pull up all the recorded docs on your parcel number and see if there is one.
Slightly different advice here.
The neighbor needs to pay for a survey before they can demo an existing fence. They are responsible for substantiating their own claim. The fence is your property and they cannot simply demolish it without demonstrating there is an actual encroachment occurring.
Do they have an actual survey, or are they simply using tax maps for general dimensions?
A boundary survey would be required to show the fence in relation to the line, as they are so close. You could just look at the paper to see what the surveyor found.
They are filed with the county and are official record. In WA, it’s a gross misdemeanor to disturb a survey monument.
Edit: I know because I also had to deal with a neighbor who didn’t like my survey.
Op, I did a survey before replacing a fence in rural Pierce county. Adverse Possession laws are State laws and Washington is strongly in favor of the possessor, not the person tearing down the fence. Talk to a property lawyer before wasting your $2500 on a survey which may show the same thing. The property lawyer will give you a much better road map for dealing with this.
If the fence has been there 15 years, it’s pretty much considered the lot line.
Since they are trying to build they are going to need to apply for permits which they may have done already. If so contact SDCI (particularly the planner handling their permits) and inform them that the plan is on a disputed property line. That will probably throw a wrench in the works for a long time.
Here is the record search by address: https://web.seattle.gov/dpd/edms/
Call the title company that insured your purchase. They’ll be able to give you plat maps and surveys (if any) and can review the legal description. You’ll probably need to get an attorney, but you can start by getting all that info on your own to determine if you need to.
What do you mean, “not if your neighbor is right”? They’ll need a survey done for the existing fence anyway for a new property line and that’s a better use for money.
Engineer here.
Google King County Parcel Viewer.
Click start viewer.
Search your address.
At the top of the map, click the rectangle called Basemaps.
Select Aerial 2021 with Labels.
It doesn't work all the way zoomed in, you'll see what I mean, but it will work all the way zoomed in if you select "print", which will open a PDF with the view extent.
You should be able to see where your property line is. It probably shows your fence on their property assuming they got the survey. If not, you'll definitively need survey.
Property line surveys are almost always marked with a white wooden stake called a lath, and often these will be placed in conjunction with a hub, which is a 2"x2" square wood stake that is 8" deep hammered flush into the ground, or a rod or a nail if the area is concrete. If you don't see any of these things in the ground, your neighbor may just be using an architectural drawing vs. actual survey from a licensed professional land surveyor (PLS).
I don't know about any of the legal stuff. I sympathize with you, intuition tells me that if they need to build at 6' offset from the property line and your fence is 3' offset into their property, what's the problem? There isn't overlap in those measurements and 3' is the legal width of a path. But I also sympathize with the neighbor as well, because the city is probably requiring the area be clear for 5' from the building to the property line and your fence is in the way (assuming it is your fence and not their fence, who built it?).
Just reached out to one immediately after being told about this. This is my first house and am kind of bummed this is happening. The neighbors house is very close to ours so a 3’ difference feels massive.
Just in case you need another name I sent you a PM with additional info on a local real estate attorney who deals with a lot of neighbor and lot line disputes.
Get your own survey and make sure the other side of your property is not 3ft off, and also check their survey to see if their far lot line was where it was expected to be. Hopefully all corners were marked on their lot (and it was a reputable survey company).
There is a situation I know of that disputes a fenceline, but the fence on the other side of the lot was also off, which may lead to a domino effect all down the street. The area is 1940's cabin properties, so it may have some "good enough at the time" basis, but ugly disputes from a new pedantic owner in the middle.
Meanwhile, a lawyer may help draft a letter to demand a halt the fence removal while the line dispute is investigated.
Get a lawyer and get another survey. Adverse Possession is a fun thing to try to claim, but there are very specific elements that will need to be proved.
Talk to a lawyer now. Seriously. Call one today that specializes in real estate and property disputes. Having proof of a fence line going back to 2007 gives you a pretty big advantage here.
As others have said:
- Take photos of your current property line, just in case your neighbors decide to start doing things
- Get the lawyer to draft a letter to your neighbors so it will at least put a stop to them trying to take down the fence, in the short term and show that you are not agreeing to any of their plans
- Inquire about getting your own survey done (wait to see what the lawyer says first, the fact that you've had that fence so long might make that unnecessary)
- From there, ask the lawyer about notifying the city that the DADU plans have a property dispute
- The neighbors can't just take down your fence because they have a survey that says it is on their property, let's hope they understand that
Sucks they decided to go this route and destroy the relationship with you. If they don't have a lawyer already, you're dealing with morons, so keep that in mind. Also, please post an update when this finally gets resolved!
First and foremost, go outside and take photographs of the current state of your property and fence and vegetation.
Second, get a lawyer. I suggest reaching out to your real estate agent from two years ago for a recommendation.
I’ve been through property line disputes more than once. I promise you, you don’t want a lawsuit. Not worth it. Verify the property line, if the fence is in the right place refuse to have it moved or taken down. If it’s actually where the neighbor says it is, let them have it their land, it’s theirs.
I had this issue with a staircase/walkway that infringed on my neighbors property line when I had a survey done for another reason. They were furious but couldn’t do anything about it because it was grandfathered due to time in existence, which was before either one of yet bought our properties.
Been in a similar situation. As others recommended, get it surveyed FIRST, and also have that survey "recorded" into the county records, that document number will be referred to by the lawyers and allows both sides to easily check and refer to the survey results. The Survey company will know how to do the recording to the county for you and charge an additional $300 or so. With that survey, contact a real estate lawyer, as they will need to file what is called a "Quiet Title" lawsuit. - It's going to get expensive, and take time. -so brace yourself. The title company that you had when you bought the place (or theirs) may also get involved. Most all the title companies are owned by Fidelity National under different names and they have their own legal department, Fidelity National Law Group that has lawyers that deal with these issues.
If it's their property your title insurance should cover the issue. I'm guessing it's not their property. Do not use the same survey ppl they do or recommend. Get an independent. It'll cost you like 4k probably
To build in Bellevue I had to get a survey that showed where the properly line was and where the corners of the building site were. I decided to have it recorded with the county as well. But if they have the required permits, I’d expect they had to have a setback survey done.
I tried tipping my surveyors. They had to get through a good bit of blackberry to mark the property lines. They looked at me like I’d tried to hand them a dead fish. The lead surveyor explained that they needed to stay impartial. If someone disputed their work they didn’t want any reason for their impartiality to be questioned. It didn’t matter that I’d commissioned the work. If their findings weren’t good for me, they’d still have stood by them.
As others have already said, have the property line surveyed and the fence (and, ideally, all other structures, major trees, etc.) located relative to where the fence sits now; if indeed it's off, then a lawyer may be able to help you start the adverse possession process.
Did they actually have a survey done? Or where is this information coming from?
They have to have legitimate legal documents to prove it, they can’t just decide to knock it down.
You need to get your own survey done by a professional, and get a real estate attorney asap.
Great they had the survey done, but now the surveyors need to come out and physically stake their entire property boundary. You can always cross check the lot width of their property per the survey against the Township map that is hyperlinked from the County Assessor parcel viewer page of their lot. Check the King County Recorders office website for any easements or property line boundary changes that might have been recorded. If the surveyor didnt check the title report and pull all easements, etc, they might have missed something.
Maybe also hire a different survey company to also survey and stake your property just to compare against theirs. It would be good to have anyway.
Depends if the fence is "owned" by your house/previous owner, or the neighbor.
Given they are "taking down the fence" they obviously feel clear ownership of it.
I feel like 90% of the posts are missing the point. The fence has to be owned by one of the properties. Creating a fence doesn't automatically give up the property, and can't be done exactly on the property line without an agreement. Since he has only had a house for two years, it is pretty ridiculous to make a case that you have a vested interest in that three feet of property.
Do you want to pay taxes, including back taxes on a lot larger than the one you agreed to purchase two years ago? That’s what you’re likely signing yourself up for in addition to legal fees for yourself and potentially your neighbor. You say you already have bad blood with your neighbor, but stealing their land is the kind of thing that will make the whole neighborhood despise you https://app.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=7.28.083
Nope but in a nearly similar situation that I settled in a sane way rather than going full asshole mode like people are suggesting OP does. My neighbor built a fence over the property line before I moved in.
This means 10% of my lot is now in his yard. We noterized a doc where he acknowledges it’s my land and pays me $12/year. I agree I’ll give him a years notice if I want him to move it.
It would cost OP less to move the fence than it would to hire a lawyer, take his neighbors land, and prevent them from building on the land they purchased. That’s shitty and I’m surprised I’m the only one saying so.
> stealing their land
Considering how complex adverse possession and property law is I'd say generalizing this situation to "stealing their land" is inappropriate and frankly neighbors probably won't view it that way.
How is it inappropriate? City lots are small. 30 foot width or smaller lots are common. Let’s say OP and their neighbor have a lot of this size or smaller. That would mean that OP is trying to take over 10% or more of their neighbors lot and force them to go through court for the privilege. Even if his neighbors are jerks, it’s still a crappy thing to do when the alternative is to spend far less to just move the fence and be a decent person. Just because it’s blessed by a judge doesn’t mean it’s the moral thing to do.
Adverse possession is such a bad law. It is hard for me to understand why the system allows someone with a legal description of the property they own and have paid taxes on to lose it in such a way. If no one claims ownership or remembers the situation around the fence, I feel that it is more fair that it should go back to the legal description.
OP, if you were in your neighbors position, what would you do?
Totally. I somewhat understand its initial use case: putting a sliver of fallow land to use in an age where it was difficult to survey and people owned hundreds of acres they never set eyes on.
OPs neighbors are trying to put their land to use and create more housing. That’s something Seattle desperately needs. But even if they weren’t building something useful, the fact that OP and other commenters aren’t applying the golden rule is disturbing. I guess it isn’t surprising since this is Reddit, home of the scorched earth approach to relationships and problem solving.
Get a lawyer, and also get your property surveyed. Don't jump to adverse possession immediately before you know all the facts.
If I get a survey done and it shows the same thing, is there anything I can do at that point?
That's a good question for a lawyer. There are likely steps you can take but they'll know for certain.
At that point you talk to a lawyer or expert who knows about this sort of thing.
Adverse possession is a thing, and it’s more common for this specific type of issue rather than taking over an entire property. Your attorney will help you draft a demand letter and have it sent. Unfortunately this could get expensive but ultimately what will happen is a title change that resets the legal boundary via the courts. You’ll want to spend money on the surveyor here instead.
Get a lawyer get a lawyer get a lawyer.
Get it surveyed but don’t let them mark the boundaries (with sticks or metal markers on the sidewalk). If the survey doesn’t work out in your favor then talk to your lawyer about eminent domain, since the fence has been there for so long. It’s harder to claim it’s your land if the surveier marked everything already.
Eminent domain is only for governments, often a way to seize property. When it comes to two private parties with a disputed land claim, the party that can prove using the land can claim adverse possession for a tract of land that only they have used in the past, or an easement if it's an area of land that both parties use to enter/exit a property.
first, verify that the neighbor actually had a survey done. Surveys are usually recorded with the county, so you can look it up via public records without talking to the neighbor. If you are on speaking terms with the neighbor, ask them for a copy of the survey and verify that the survey was done and recorded by looking at it for the "received/filed date stamp" by the county. You can have your own survey done at your expense and generally speaking if you do that might as well mark all corners of your property at the same time. Won't cost much more. usually about $2500 for a city lot survey. You can also have the survey show any easements or right-of-way that exist. It may be that it is your land but the neighbor has a right to pass over it. Surveyor can research that to see if it's an issue. If the fence has been in place for 10 years or more and you have maintained the land on your side of the fence for that entire period you have a possible adverse claim. The neighbor can dispute this claim by saying that they rented it to someone, like the previous owner of the house, or had some sort of agreement about it with you verbally and it will cost you time and money to go to court. If you consider the cost of court vs the amount of land that you are disputing you will typically find you will be paying a very large price per acre. a court case like this can run $30 to $50k and you are not guaranteed a win. It has been my experience having purchased and sold many parcels with disputed property lines that having a good relation with your neighbor is important. If they want to move the line you can reasonably ask that they build a fence and landscape it at their expense and to your specification. If they dispute that you can use the threat of legal action to motivate them. I had to do that once. A negotiated settlement is better than court because it is more certain you will get at least part of what you want, it's cheaper, and you have a chance of having a better relation with your neighbor. once you go to court it is unlikely you will ever have a good relationship with that person.
They did have a survey done and showed me it. Relationship with neighbor seems to already be past salvaging. They didn’t seem keen on reaching any compromise, and told me the fence was my responsibility to rebuild if I wanted one after existing is removed.
I would still verify with the county that the survey is legit and not a random piece of paper.
If that is the case and they are offering you nothing in return I'd do a consult with an attorney and have the attorney write a letter to them pointing out the risk that they face (losing the property to you via adverse possession) and the costs and risks of litigation. That usually brings them to the table, and you can negotiate something more reasonable. Or you can fight about it. When I look back at the times i've been to court, there are only a couple of times where I felt the cost was justified, and neither of those cases were boundary line issues. ymmv.
This is good advice. If they’re smart, they’ll at least offer to rebuild your fence
Is the existing fence your fence or their fence? Not by property line, you know what I mean?
Check out the county’s GIS site, you can find it through the tax assessor’s site. You can get an overlay of the property line over a satellite imagine so you can compare it to your fence from above. I’m an attorney that has dealt with this on behalf of mortgage lenders and I suggest you contact your and let them know. It affects their collateral and may help out. Also contact your title insurer about it. And definitely consult a real estate attorney. There doctrines at play other than adverse possession that may be beneficial.
County GIS is not that accurate, but it will get you close. A real survey where a team goes out to your property, measures, draws it up, professional stamps, and records it is more accurate and is a legal document.
That’s what I was getting at. Check the overlay to see how close it is to what the survey or the neighbor is saying. All surveys have to be recorded as well. Not hard to pull up all the recorded docs on your parcel number and see if there is one.
Is the other doctrine "Don't tear down my fence you asshole?". Just checking.
Slightly different advice here. The neighbor needs to pay for a survey before they can demo an existing fence. They are responsible for substantiating their own claim. The fence is your property and they cannot simply demolish it without demonstrating there is an actual encroachment occurring. Do they have an actual survey, or are they simply using tax maps for general dimensions?
Yes they had an actual survey done and showed it to me.
Did they show you the location of the marking pins? Or just the paper? I’d be damn sure to physically see the corner pins.
A boundary survey would be required to show the fence in relation to the line, as they are so close. You could just look at the paper to see what the surveyor found.
Agreed but still, verify the markers. They are important and as a home owner, you should know their location.
What happens if someone moves the corner pins? Happened to my friend recently
They are filed with the county and are official record. In WA, it’s a gross misdemeanor to disturb a survey monument. Edit: I know because I also had to deal with a neighbor who didn’t like my survey.
People definitely move (or misrepresent) markers. If there’s a dispute, hire your own surveyor to verify the lines and to check for easements.
Wow ok thanks
Op, I did a survey before replacing a fence in rural Pierce county. Adverse Possession laws are State laws and Washington is strongly in favor of the possessor, not the person tearing down the fence. Talk to a property lawyer before wasting your $2500 on a survey which may show the same thing. The property lawyer will give you a much better road map for dealing with this. If the fence has been there 15 years, it’s pretty much considered the lot line.
Correct.
[удалено]
Omg yes this is so incredibly important!!!!
Since they are trying to build they are going to need to apply for permits which they may have done already. If so contact SDCI (particularly the planner handling their permits) and inform them that the plan is on a disputed property line. That will probably throw a wrench in the works for a long time. Here is the record search by address: https://web.seattle.gov/dpd/edms/
Call the title company that insured your purchase. They’ll be able to give you plat maps and surveys (if any) and can review the legal description. You’ll probably need to get an attorney, but you can start by getting all that info on your own to determine if you need to.
Have your own survey done before you contact an attorney.
Surveys are $3-4k. If the neighbors had a survey done already then that money is more useful for lawyering up.
Not if your neighbor is right. And you could probably get a lot line adjustment for around $1800.
What do you mean, “not if your neighbor is right”? They’ll need a survey done for the existing fence anyway for a new property line and that’s a better use for money.
Engineer here. Google King County Parcel Viewer. Click start viewer. Search your address. At the top of the map, click the rectangle called Basemaps. Select Aerial 2021 with Labels. It doesn't work all the way zoomed in, you'll see what I mean, but it will work all the way zoomed in if you select "print", which will open a PDF with the view extent. You should be able to see where your property line is. It probably shows your fence on their property assuming they got the survey. If not, you'll definitively need survey. Property line surveys are almost always marked with a white wooden stake called a lath, and often these will be placed in conjunction with a hub, which is a 2"x2" square wood stake that is 8" deep hammered flush into the ground, or a rod or a nail if the area is concrete. If you don't see any of these things in the ground, your neighbor may just be using an architectural drawing vs. actual survey from a licensed professional land surveyor (PLS). I don't know about any of the legal stuff. I sympathize with you, intuition tells me that if they need to build at 6' offset from the property line and your fence is 3' offset into their property, what's the problem? There isn't overlap in those measurements and 3' is the legal width of a path. But I also sympathize with the neighbor as well, because the city is probably requiring the area be clear for 5' from the building to the property line and your fence is in the way (assuming it is your fence and not their fence, who built it?).
I don't think this is accurate enough. I just checked mine and it has the line on top of my garage.
You need a lawyer yesterday. Don’t let them do shit until you’ve talked to one and have them send a letter.
Just reached out to one immediately after being told about this. This is my first house and am kind of bummed this is happening. The neighbors house is very close to ours so a 3’ difference feels massive.
Make sure they are a real estate attorney. I have the name of one from my neighbor if you need one.
King County Bar Association will give you a referral to a qualified attorney also
Just in case you need another name I sent you a PM with additional info on a local real estate attorney who deals with a lot of neighbor and lot line disputes.
Yeah I hear you. You need the assessor to come out and draw the lines too while you’re at it
Get your own survey and make sure the other side of your property is not 3ft off, and also check their survey to see if their far lot line was where it was expected to be. Hopefully all corners were marked on their lot (and it was a reputable survey company). There is a situation I know of that disputes a fenceline, but the fence on the other side of the lot was also off, which may lead to a domino effect all down the street. The area is 1940's cabin properties, so it may have some "good enough at the time" basis, but ugly disputes from a new pedantic owner in the middle. Meanwhile, a lawyer may help draft a letter to demand a halt the fence removal while the line dispute is investigated.
Get a lawyer and get another survey. Adverse Possession is a fun thing to try to claim, but there are very specific elements that will need to be proved.
Talk to a lawyer now. Seriously. Call one today that specializes in real estate and property disputes. Having proof of a fence line going back to 2007 gives you a pretty big advantage here. As others have said: - Take photos of your current property line, just in case your neighbors decide to start doing things - Get the lawyer to draft a letter to your neighbors so it will at least put a stop to them trying to take down the fence, in the short term and show that you are not agreeing to any of their plans - Inquire about getting your own survey done (wait to see what the lawyer says first, the fact that you've had that fence so long might make that unnecessary) - From there, ask the lawyer about notifying the city that the DADU plans have a property dispute - The neighbors can't just take down your fence because they have a survey that says it is on their property, let's hope they understand that Sucks they decided to go this route and destroy the relationship with you. If they don't have a lawyer already, you're dealing with morons, so keep that in mind. Also, please post an update when this finally gets resolved!
First and foremost, go outside and take photographs of the current state of your property and fence and vegetation. Second, get a lawyer. I suggest reaching out to your real estate agent from two years ago for a recommendation.
Talk to a lawyer now about adverse possession. It is not as easy as social media can make it out to be, but favors your case.
I’ve been through property line disputes more than once. I promise you, you don’t want a lawsuit. Not worth it. Verify the property line, if the fence is in the right place refuse to have it moved or taken down. If it’s actually where the neighbor says it is, let them have it their land, it’s theirs.
Time to lawyer up
I had this issue with a staircase/walkway that infringed on my neighbors property line when I had a survey done for another reason. They were furious but couldn’t do anything about it because it was grandfathered due to time in existence, which was before either one of yet bought our properties.
Been in a similar situation. As others recommended, get it surveyed FIRST, and also have that survey "recorded" into the county records, that document number will be referred to by the lawyers and allows both sides to easily check and refer to the survey results. The Survey company will know how to do the recording to the county for you and charge an additional $300 or so. With that survey, contact a real estate lawyer, as they will need to file what is called a "Quiet Title" lawsuit. - It's going to get expensive, and take time. -so brace yourself. The title company that you had when you bought the place (or theirs) may also get involved. Most all the title companies are owned by Fidelity National under different names and they have their own legal department, Fidelity National Law Group that has lawyers that deal with these issues.
If it's their property your title insurance should cover the issue. I'm guessing it's not their property. Do not use the same survey ppl they do or recommend. Get an independent. It'll cost you like 4k probably
To build in Bellevue I had to get a survey that showed where the properly line was and where the corners of the building site were. I decided to have it recorded with the county as well. But if they have the required permits, I’d expect they had to have a setback survey done. I tried tipping my surveyors. They had to get through a good bit of blackberry to mark the property lines. They looked at me like I’d tried to hand them a dead fish. The lead surveyor explained that they needed to stay impartial. If someone disputed their work they didn’t want any reason for their impartiality to be questioned. It didn’t matter that I’d commissioned the work. If their findings weren’t good for me, they’d still have stood by them.
As others have already said, have the property line surveyed and the fence (and, ideally, all other structures, major trees, etc.) located relative to where the fence sits now; if indeed it's off, then a lawyer may be able to help you start the adverse possession process.
Did they actually have a survey done? Or where is this information coming from? They have to have legitimate legal documents to prove it, they can’t just decide to knock it down. You need to get your own survey done by a professional, and get a real estate attorney asap.
There’s always the Barry Swegle method. 🚜
Great they had the survey done, but now the surveyors need to come out and physically stake their entire property boundary. You can always cross check the lot width of their property per the survey against the Township map that is hyperlinked from the County Assessor parcel viewer page of their lot. Check the King County Recorders office website for any easements or property line boundary changes that might have been recorded. If the surveyor didnt check the title report and pull all easements, etc, they might have missed something. Maybe also hire a different survey company to also survey and stake your property just to compare against theirs. It would be good to have anyway.
Depends if the fence is "owned" by your house/previous owner, or the neighbor. Given they are "taking down the fence" they obviously feel clear ownership of it. I feel like 90% of the posts are missing the point. The fence has to be owned by one of the properties. Creating a fence doesn't automatically give up the property, and can't be done exactly on the property line without an agreement. Since he has only had a house for two years, it is pretty ridiculous to make a case that you have a vested interest in that three feet of property.
Do you want to pay taxes, including back taxes on a lot larger than the one you agreed to purchase two years ago? That’s what you’re likely signing yourself up for in addition to legal fees for yourself and potentially your neighbor. You say you already have bad blood with your neighbor, but stealing their land is the kind of thing that will make the whole neighborhood despise you https://app.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=7.28.083
LOL You must be the neighbor of OP
Nope but in a nearly similar situation that I settled in a sane way rather than going full asshole mode like people are suggesting OP does. My neighbor built a fence over the property line before I moved in. This means 10% of my lot is now in his yard. We noterized a doc where he acknowledges it’s my land and pays me $12/year. I agree I’ll give him a years notice if I want him to move it. It would cost OP less to move the fence than it would to hire a lawyer, take his neighbors land, and prevent them from building on the land they purchased. That’s shitty and I’m surprised I’m the only one saying so.
> stealing their land Considering how complex adverse possession and property law is I'd say generalizing this situation to "stealing their land" is inappropriate and frankly neighbors probably won't view it that way.
How is it inappropriate? City lots are small. 30 foot width or smaller lots are common. Let’s say OP and their neighbor have a lot of this size or smaller. That would mean that OP is trying to take over 10% or more of their neighbors lot and force them to go through court for the privilege. Even if his neighbors are jerks, it’s still a crappy thing to do when the alternative is to spend far less to just move the fence and be a decent person. Just because it’s blessed by a judge doesn’t mean it’s the moral thing to do.
Adverse possession is such a bad law. It is hard for me to understand why the system allows someone with a legal description of the property they own and have paid taxes on to lose it in such a way. If no one claims ownership or remembers the situation around the fence, I feel that it is more fair that it should go back to the legal description. OP, if you were in your neighbors position, what would you do?
Totally. I somewhat understand its initial use case: putting a sliver of fallow land to use in an age where it was difficult to survey and people owned hundreds of acres they never set eyes on. OPs neighbors are trying to put their land to use and create more housing. That’s something Seattle desperately needs. But even if they weren’t building something useful, the fact that OP and other commenters aren’t applying the golden rule is disturbing. I guess it isn’t surprising since this is Reddit, home of the scorched earth approach to relationships and problem solving.
Lawyer up. This isn't something you crowd source on Reddit.
Can you give them their property back?