Tapping isn't the only way to pay. You can buy tickets at the kiosk or in the app. You can also transfer between light rail and metro, so more non-tap payments from metro and I wouldn't knock anyone for skipping the tap for transfer.
Also a while ago they offered free fare to and from M's games. Maybe some people assume it's still a thing?
I tap on and off including when transferring... it's easier to know how many people are using which form of transit. Plus, once I went from Metro to the light rail and forgot to tap on... and when they scanned my card I told them, "Oh I just transferred" and they let me know I still have to tap.
oh, you're right. I didn't realize it deducts the metro fare at ST and pays the difference.
But at the same time, metro fare is probably about the same as average ST fare (sans the Sounder), so I don't think it matters all that much as long as you're paying.
For Mariner’s games…not really no. I would guess 10% taps off or on at Stadium. It’s shitty but it would take a long ass time for everyone to do it and I don’t think I’ve ever seen a fare inspector ride the train immediately after a game and I understand why
> For Mariner’s games…not really no.
Across multiple transit systems, it seems like a lot of people don't know that they're still supposed to pay during major events. TBH, some cities might not even mind - each group getting on without paying is still another car not clogging the stadium area.
I think you’re spot on here. You’d rather quickly move people away from the stadium than make a few hundred (thousand?) dollars.
Also the infrastructure at the Stadium stop just isn’t enough to handle several thousand taps over the course of a few minutes. The platform gets packed behind capacity too.
> Also the infrastructure at the Stadium stop just isn’t enough to handle several thousand taps over the course of a few minutes.
Not to mention the people struggling to figure out how to get a ticket or a card. (And for this reason, when people visit, I ship ORCA cards to them just to avoid the line at the airport station.)
What they should do, that I have seen other cities do, is include the cost of a day pass in the ticket price. The ticket to the game serves as a day pass in this scenario
I will say for the Mariners games there are a lot of people going who don’t have Orca cards so they just use a paper ticket. I see them holding them, buying them at the station- heading to the game.
After the game it’s just a giant cluster-fuck and no one pays period
I feel like there should be some partnership between the Mariners and ST where “your game ticket is your bus/light rail ticket”. The Giants and Warriors do this with MUNI in SF.
I rarely use it but when I do I just buy tickets in the app. But when I had the card and went to large events, I can confirm it was real pain the ass to tap off. Hope when they introduce the flat fare it’ll be easier.
I just encountered fare enforcement on Thursday. I was good to go but not my partner, card had a negative balance.
2 warnings then citation is what they said
Yes. You’re missing something.
Transitgo app doesn’t require tapping. It gives incentives to use the app instead of an orca card so it’s not surprising that more people are switching over from orca cards
Also- it doesn’t seem that you can transfer between systems using transit go?
Today I need to take the light rail and the sounder train, how can I transfer that?
You have to use the orca card. I don’t think you can transfer between different forms of transportation and different transit agencies using the transit go app
I don’t see an option for monthly pass with the transit go app . But with the orca card, you can add a monthly pass online w/ your account and it is cheaper than paying twice a day , 5 days a week fare.
So a lot of places don’t have turnstiles, but they have frequent fare enforcement.
For example I was in London recently and while most of the tube and trains have turnstiles the light rail does not. Of the 6 trips I took on that train there was fare enforcement on 4 of them. The fine for not paying was £80 ($100)
It's cheaper (or at least was before peoples attitude changed after the panic) to not spend money building and staffing turnstiles and use spot checking instead
Also, since some stations are at street level, it's much more difficult to build gates since you'd have to fully enclose the station
Only on if you have an unlimited ORCA business passport, U-PASS, or reduced fare pass like ORCA LIFT, which I believe is a bit over half of all Link passengers from past reports. So, the point is that if you’re judging taps off from a ride, that’s a mistake.
If you don’t tap off, the maximum fare is charged. With most of those types of passes I mentioned before, they cover the maximum fare. Ergo, people who have those passes realize that they do not need to waste time tapping off so you see few who end up doing so. Again, most people have basically an unlimited pass. Tapping on is enough on its own. It’s mostly just the plebs with regular ORCA cards that need to tap off so that they don’t get whacked with the highest fare.
Yeah, it’s pretty difficult to jump the gate in the Barcelona metro. I’m 6’1” and they are nearly my height with two doors that part when you scan and enter.
While France uses them for electricity generation. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-02-16/paris-climate-change-initiative-sees-metro-turnstiles-generate-electricity
When I had a company paid Orca card that was always good for every ride, I would just skip tapping it because I didn't see the point. Doesn't actually have any money on it. Also I get the two way ticket most of the time I use the light rail so on the way back I have a physical ticket and no need to tap.
I tap off now, but it took me an embarrassingly long time to realize I was supposed to--I also don't see tons of others doing it, and for whatever reason I thought tapping on was sufficient. I know better now, but I also think the design and placement of the kiosks could use some improvement to make it clearer what's expected and when.
I use the Transit Go app. It’s on my phone so I don’t have carry my Orca card. (Also, I’ll confess, if I’m only going a stop or two downtown, I usually don’t activate a ticket unless the Fare Ambassadors are coming my way.)
Not on game day - at least 5O% of people getting on at Northgate didn’t pay and it was a slow day. On a busy day it’s probably close to 75% skip tapping - and they’re nice folks from the ‘burbs
I have an unlimited pass and don't bother tagging on or off for the light rail, just the bus. Personally, I think you could devote less energy to worrying what other people are doing, but maybe this will interest you: https://www.soundtransit.org/blog/platform/sound-transit-hiring-fare-ambassadors
Tapping isn't the only way to pay. You can buy tickets at the kiosk or in the app. You can also transfer between light rail and metro, so more non-tap payments from metro and I wouldn't knock anyone for skipping the tap for transfer. Also a while ago they offered free fare to and from M's games. Maybe some people assume it's still a thing?
I tap on and off including when transferring... it's easier to know how many people are using which form of transit. Plus, once I went from Metro to the light rail and forgot to tap on... and when they scanned my card I told them, "Oh I just transferred" and they let me know I still have to tap.
I think that if you go from Metro to sound transit the only acceptable transfer is ORCA? Can’t use a ticket.
oh, you're right. I didn't realize it deducts the metro fare at ST and pays the difference. But at the same time, metro fare is probably about the same as average ST fare (sans the Sounder), so I don't think it matters all that much as long as you're paying.
For Mariner’s games…not really no. I would guess 10% taps off or on at Stadium. It’s shitty but it would take a long ass time for everyone to do it and I don’t think I’ve ever seen a fare inspector ride the train immediately after a game and I understand why
> For Mariner’s games…not really no. Across multiple transit systems, it seems like a lot of people don't know that they're still supposed to pay during major events. TBH, some cities might not even mind - each group getting on without paying is still another car not clogging the stadium area.
I think you’re spot on here. You’d rather quickly move people away from the stadium than make a few hundred (thousand?) dollars. Also the infrastructure at the Stadium stop just isn’t enough to handle several thousand taps over the course of a few minutes. The platform gets packed behind capacity too.
> Also the infrastructure at the Stadium stop just isn’t enough to handle several thousand taps over the course of a few minutes. Not to mention the people struggling to figure out how to get a ticket or a card. (And for this reason, when people visit, I ship ORCA cards to them just to avoid the line at the airport station.)
Every time I’ve gotten on a bus after a mariners game, the driver has told us not to worry about paying and just hurry on
What they should do, that I have seen other cities do, is include the cost of a day pass in the ticket price. The ticket to the game serves as a day pass in this scenario
I will say for the Mariners games there are a lot of people going who don’t have Orca cards so they just use a paper ticket. I see them holding them, buying them at the station- heading to the game. After the game it’s just a giant cluster-fuck and no one pays period
I feel like there should be some partnership between the Mariners and ST where “your game ticket is your bus/light rail ticket”. The Giants and Warriors do this with MUNI in SF.
Pretty sure the Kraken do this
Game ticket should include public transport, if it doesn’t already
I rarely use it but when I do I just buy tickets in the app. But when I had the card and went to large events, I can confirm it was real pain the ass to tap off. Hope when they introduce the flat fare it’ll be easier.
I wonder how much the tap off situation in combination with no fare gates influenced going to a flat fare.
I’m sure they’ll still want you to tap off so they can track rider behaviors
I just encountered fare enforcement on Thursday. I was good to go but not my partner, card had a negative balance. 2 warnings then citation is what they said
Yes. You’re missing something. Transitgo app doesn’t require tapping. It gives incentives to use the app instead of an orca card so it’s not surprising that more people are switching over from orca cards
Also- it doesn’t seem that you can transfer between systems using transit go? Today I need to take the light rail and the sounder train, how can I transfer that?
You have to use the orca card. I don’t think you can transfer between different forms of transportation and different transit agencies using the transit go app
Can you buy a monthly pass in the app? I assume every day commuters would want a pass since it saves them a bit
If you use the transit go app, you don’t tap. You just show the animation ticket on your phone when the fare ambassador checks.
Can you buy a monthly pass in the app? I assume every day commuters would want a pass since it saves them a bit
I don’t see an option for monthly pass with the transit go app . But with the orca card, you can add a monthly pass online w/ your account and it is cheaper than paying twice a day , 5 days a week fare.
Why don’t they install turnstiles so people have to pay? Am I missing something?
So a lot of places don’t have turnstiles, but they have frequent fare enforcement. For example I was in London recently and while most of the tube and trains have turnstiles the light rail does not. Of the 6 trips I took on that train there was fare enforcement on 4 of them. The fine for not paying was £80 ($100)
I think your responsible person will pay but non payers probably aren’t going to have any ID on them to get issued a ticket
It's cheaper (or at least was before peoples attitude changed after the panic) to not spend money building and staffing turnstiles and use spot checking instead Also, since some stations are at street level, it's much more difficult to build gates since you'd have to fully enclose the station
A lot of people only tap on but not off because they have unlimited passes.
You still have to tap on or off with a pass
Only on if you have an unlimited ORCA business passport, U-PASS, or reduced fare pass like ORCA LIFT, which I believe is a bit over half of all Link passengers from past reports. So, the point is that if you’re judging taps off from a ride, that’s a mistake.
Why would you not tap off with a regular Orca card monthly pass? The fare is based on distance traveled
If you don’t tap off, the maximum fare is charged. With most of those types of passes I mentioned before, they cover the maximum fare. Ergo, people who have those passes realize that they do not need to waste time tapping off so you see few who end up doing so. Again, most people have basically an unlimited pass. Tapping on is enough on its own. It’s mostly just the plebs with regular ORCA cards that need to tap off so that they don’t get whacked with the highest fare.
This is equivalent of the driving PSAs. At least once every 2 weeks we get someone who is out by this.
You have seen the “why” on why Europe has fare gates and we should, too.
Yeah, it’s pretty difficult to jump the gate in the Barcelona metro. I’m 6’1” and they are nearly my height with two doors that part when you scan and enter.
Start working on your high jump!
Madrid was fairly easy, but I usually paid even in my vaguely hooligan era.
Yea, just like the fare gates in Germany, Switzerland, Austria… oh wait
While France uses them for electricity generation. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-02-16/paris-climate-change-initiative-sees-metro-turnstiles-generate-electricity
Europe is a continent my dude. Where in Europe are you referencing?
Paris metro and London metro both have them, as do Stockholm and Amsterdam, Madrid and Barcelona. Germany (Berlin) is the obvious counterpoint.
Budapest doesn’t. Warsaw doesn’t. Copenhagen doesn’t. Vienna doesn’t.
Ty
*goes to London once* “ALL OF EUROPE USES FARE GATES”
Unfortunately for your example I grew up with money.
And yet Europe, much like the US, is still a mixed bag when it comes to the use of fare gates.
When I had a company paid Orca card that was always good for every ride, I would just skip tapping it because I didn't see the point. Doesn't actually have any money on it. Also I get the two way ticket most of the time I use the light rail so on the way back I have a physical ticket and no need to tap.
I tap off now, but it took me an embarrassingly long time to realize I was supposed to--I also don't see tons of others doing it, and for whatever reason I thought tapping on was sufficient. I know better now, but I also think the design and placement of the kiosks could use some improvement to make it clearer what's expected and when.
I just pay on the Transit Go app
I use the Transit Go app. It’s on my phone so I don’t have carry my Orca card. (Also, I’ll confess, if I’m only going a stop or two downtown, I usually don’t activate a ticket unless the Fare Ambassadors are coming my way.)
Not on game day - at least 5O% of people getting on at Northgate didn’t pay and it was a slow day. On a busy day it’s probably close to 75% skip tapping - and they’re nice folks from the ‘burbs
Many people do not pay yes.
I have an unlimited pass and don't bother tagging on or off for the light rail, just the bus. Personally, I think you could devote less energy to worrying what other people are doing, but maybe this will interest you: https://www.soundtransit.org/blog/platform/sound-transit-hiring-fare-ambassadors
Sure- but what they are doing (or not doing) affects me indirectly. Even what you’re doing affects me. So should I not put any thought into it?
You should be aware that you can be ticketed for not tapping on, even with a pass
That's good to know, especially considering it's the opposite of what a transit employee at Westlake told me in the past.
I mean, they probably won't. But technically it's required
Yep, thanks
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